GWEN: DEJA VU IN IRAQ AND IN BENGHAZI.

BENGHAZI.

PLUS, REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS PLUS, REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS STRUGGLE TO PLOT A POLITICAL STRUGGLE TO PLOT A POLITICAL WAY FORWARD.

WAY FORWARD.

TONIGHT ON "WASHINGTON WEEK."

TONIGHT ON "WASHINGTON WEEK."

>> AMERICAN FCES ORWILL NOT BE >> AMERICAN FCES ORWILL NOT BE RETURNING TO COMBAT IN IRAQ.

RETURNING TO COMBAT IN IRAQ.

GWEN: AS CONDITIONS CONTINUE TO GWEN: AS CONDITIONS CONTINUE TO DETERIORATE IN IRAQ, THAT MAY DETERIORATE IN IRAQ, THAT MAY BE THE ONLY THINGOMPL CETELY BE THE ONLY THINGOMPL CETELY CLEAR.

CLEAR.

WILL THERE BE AIR RIKESTS?

WILL THERE BE AIR RIKESTS?

>> GOING FORWARD WE WILL BE >> GOING FORWARD WE WILL BE PREPARED TO TAKE TARGETED AND PREPARED TO TAKE TARGETED AND PRECISE MILITARY ACTION.

PRECISE MILITARY ACTION.

GWEN: WILL THERE BE AMERICAN GWEN: WILL THERE BE AMERICAN ASSETS ON THE GROUND?

ASSETS ON THE GROUND?

>> AMERICAN COMBAT TROOPS ARE >> AMERICAN COMBAT TROOPS ARE NOT GOING TO BE FIGHTING IN NOT GOING TO BE FIGHTING IN IRAQ AGAIN.

IRAQ AGAIN.

GWEN: AND WILL AQI IRPRIME GWEN: AND WILL AQI IRPRIME MINISTER NOURI AL-MALIKI MINISTER NOURI AL-MALIKI SURVIVE?

SURVIVE?

PLUS, A BREAKTHROUGH ON PLUS, A BREAKTHROUGH ON BENGHAZI.

BENGHAZI.

WILL IT END THE POLITICAL WILL IT END THE POLITICAL DEBATE?

DEBATE?

>> THERE HAS BEEN A TENDENCY IN >> THERE HAS BEEN A TENDENCY IN THIS ADMINISTRATION TO TREAT THIS ADMINISTRATION TO TREAT THIS LIKE A LAW ENFORCEMENT THIS LIKE A LAW ENFORCEMENT MATTER, READ THEM THEIR RIGHTS MATTER, READ THEM THEIR RIGHTS AND GET THEM A LAWYER.

AND GET THEM A LAWYER.

I HOPE THEY'RE NOT DOING THAT.

I HOPE THEY'RE NOT DOING THAT.

GWEN: ON CAPITOL HILL NEW GWEN: ON CAPITOL HILL NEW REPUBLICAN LEADERS STEP UP TO REPUBLICAN LEADERS STEP UP TO REPLACE THE OLD ONE FORCED TO REPLACE THE OLD ONE FORCED TO STEP DOWN.

STEP DOWN.

BUT IT'S NOT NEW BUT IT'S NOT NEW GUARD.

GUARD.

AND AT THE WHITE HOUSE AND AT THE WHITE HOUSE DEMOCRATS STRUGGLE FOR A SECOND DEMOCRATS STRUGGLE FOR A SECOND TERM BREAKTHROUGH.

TERM BREAKTHROUGH.

COVERING THE WEEK, PETER BAKER COVERING THE WEEK, PETER BAKER OF "THE NEW YORK TIMES," OF "THE NEW YORK TIMES," MICHAEL CROWLEY OF "TIME" MICHAEL CROWLEY OF "TIME" MAGAZINE, JANET HOOK OF THE MAGAZINE, JANET HOOK OF THE "WALL STREET JOURNAL," AND ED "WALL STREET JOURNAL," AND ED O'KEEFE OF "THE WASHINGTON O'KEEFE OF "THE WASHINGTON POST."

POST."

>> AWARD-WINNING REPORTING AND >> AWARD-WINNING REPORTING AND ANALYSIS, COVERING HISTORY AS ANALYSIS, COVERING HISTORY AS IT HAPPENS, LIVE FROM OUR IT HAPPENS, LIVE FROM OUR NATION'S CAPITOL, THIS IS NATION'S CAPITOL, THIS IS "WASHINGTON WEEK" WITH GWEN "WASHINGTON WEEK" WITH GWEN IFILL.

ONCE AGAIN LIVE FROM WASHINGTON.

WASHINGTON.

MODERATOR GWEN IFILL.

MODERATOR GWEN IFILL.

GWEN: GOOD EVENING.

GWEN: GOOD EVENING.

YOU MAY BE FORGIVEN THIS WEEK YOU MAY BE FORGIVEN THIS WEEK FOR FEELING WE HAVE BEEN HERE FOR FEELING WE HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE.

BEFORE.

POTENTIAL AIR STRIKES IN IRAQ, POTENTIAL AIR STRIKES IN IRAQ, CHECK.

CHECK.

JOHN KERRY DISPATCHED TO THE JOHN KERRY DISPATCHED TO THE MIDDLE EAST, CHECK.

MIDDLE EAST, CHECK.

THE BENGHAZI ATTACKS ON PAGE THE BENGHAZI ATTACKS ON PAGE ONE, CHECK.

ONE, CHECK.

WHAT THESE ISSUES HAVE IN WHAT THESE ISSUES HAVE IN COMMON IS THAT THEY PROVIDE YET COMMON IS THAT THEY PROVIDE YET ANOTHER SET OF TOUGH FOREIGN ANOTHER SET OF TOUGH FOREIGN POLICY DECISIONS FOR THE WHITE POLICY DECISIONS FOR THE WHITE HOUSE ON ISSUES THAT JUST WILL HOUSE ON ISSUES THAT JUST WILL NOT FADE AWAY.

NOT FADE AWAY.

AND WHEN IT COMES TO IRAQ IT AND WHEN IT COMES TO IRAQ IT BOILS DOWN TO HOW LITTLE, NOT BOILS DOWN TO HOW LITTLE, NOT HOW MUCH, THE U.S. WILL HOW MUCH, THE U.S. WILL INTERVENE.

INTERVENE.

THE ABILITY HAVE THE ABILITY HAVE TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM BY TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM BY SENDING IN TENS OF THOUSANDS OF SENDING IN TENS OF THOUSANDS OF TROOPS AND COMMITTING THE KINDS TROOPS AND COMMITTING THE KINDS OF BLOOD THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN OF BLOOD THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN EXPENDED IN IRAQ.

EXPENDED IN IRAQ.

ULTIMATELY THIS IS SOMETHING ULTIMATELY THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE THAT IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE SOLVED BY THE IRAQIS.

SOLVED BY THE IRAQIS.

GWEN: BUT CAN THEY DO THAT?

GWEN: BUT CAN THEY DO THAT?

AS "TIME" MAGAZINE SAYS ON ITS AS "TIME" MAGAZINE SAYS ON ITS COVER THIS WEEK, IS THIS THE COVER THIS WEEK, IS THIS THE ENDS OF IRAQ?

ENDS OF IRAQ?

WHAT'S THE ANSWER?

WHAT'S THE ANSWER?

>> IT MAY BE, IT'S NOT YET.

>> IT MAY BE, IT'S NOT YET.

AND THE WHITE HOUSE HOPES THAT AND THE WHITE HOUSE HOPES THAT IRAQ CAN BE SALVAGED.

IRAQ CAN BE SALVAGED.

I HAVE TO SAY IT'S NOT LOOKING I HAVE TO SAY IT'S NOT LOOKING GOOD.

GOOD.

THE HOPE NOW -- THE PRESIDENT THE HOPE NOW -- THE PRESIDENT DOES NOT WANT TO CONDUCT AIR DOES NOT WANT TO CONDUCT AIR STRIKES NOT ONLY BECAUSE HE STRIKES NOT ONLY BECAUSE HE DOESN'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN DOESN'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN ANOTHER MILITARY ENTANGLEMENT, ANOTHER MILITARY ENTANGLEMENT, BUT THERE'S ALSO OTHER BUT THERE'S ALSO OTHER COMPLICATION THAT IS WOULD COME COMPLICATION THAT IS WOULD COME WITH IT, INCLUDING SEEMING TO WITH IT, INCLUDING SEEMING TO SIDE WITH SHIITES AGAINST SIDE WITH SHIITES AGAINST SUNNIS AND WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY SUNNIS AND WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A SECTARIAN WAR.

A SECTARIAN WAR.

BUT ALSO THE IDEA THAT IT'S A BUT ALSO THE IDEA THAT IT'S A BAND-AID.

BAND-AID.

MILITARY ACTION MIGHT BEAT BACK MILITARY ACTION MIGHT BEAT BACK THE INSURGENTS THAT ARE WORKING THE INSURGENTS THAT ARE WORKING TOGETHER, BUT NOT SOLVE THE TOGETHER, BUT NOT SOLVE THE CORE PROBLEM THAT IS CAUSING CORE PROBLEM THAT IS CAUSING IRAQ TO FALL APART, WHICH IS IRAQ TO FALL APART, WHICH IS THAT ITS POLITICAL SYSTEM THAT ITS POLITICAL SYSTEM HASN'T BEEN WORKING.

HASN'T BEEN WORKING.

YOU HAVE A PRIME MINISTER, YOU HAVE A PRIME MINISTER, NOURI AL-MALIKI, WHO MANY NOURI AL-MALIKI, WHO MANY SUNNIS SEE AS A SHIITE SADDAM, SUNNIS SEE AS A SHIITE SADDAM, A BRUTAL GUY WHO HAS CRACKED A BRUTAL GUY WHO HAS CRACKED DOWN ON PEACEFUL PROTESTS DOWN ON PEACEFUL PROTESTS VIOLENTLY.

VIOLENTLY.

IF YOU CAN'T SOLVE THAT PROBLEM IF YOU CAN'T SOLVE THAT PROBLEM THE COUNTRY IS NOT GOING TO THE COUNTRY IS NOT GOING TO HOLD TOGETHER.

HOLD TOGETHER.

THE KURDS ARE MOVING TOWARDS THE KURDS ARE MOVING TOWARDS INDEPENDENCE AND YOU COULD HAVE INDEPENDENCE AND YOU COULD HAVE THE BEGINNING OF WHAT COULD BE THE BEGINNING OF WHAT COULD BE A CYCLE OF SECTARIAN VIOLENCE A CYCLE OF SECTARIAN VIOLENCE THAT IS DIFFICULT TO REVERSE.

THAT IS DIFFICULT TO REVERSE.

THE HOPE IS WE WON'T DO AIR THE HOPE IS WE WON'T DO AIR STRIKES.

STRIKES.

WE'LL ENCOURAGE THE PARTIES TO WE'LL ENCOURAGE THE PARTIES TO COME UP WITH A PICAL COME UP WITH A PICAL SOLUTION, TO FORM A NEW SOLUTION, TO FORM A NEW VERNMENT AFTER PARLIAMENTARY VERNMENT AFTER PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS.

ELECTIONS.

BUT IN THIS ATMOSPHERE THERE'S BUT IN THIS ATMOSPHERE THERE'S NOT A LOT OF REASO B NOT A LOT OF REASO B OPTIMISTIC.

OPTIMISTIC.

GWEN: HANDS TIED AT THE WHITE GWEN: HANDS TIED AT THE WHITE HOUSE.

HOUSE.

WE KNOW WHAT'S OFF THE TABLE, WE KNOW WHAT'S OFF THE TABLE, SO THESAYY .

SO THESAYY .

WHAT IS ON THE TABLE?

WHAT IS ON THE TABLE?

>> WHAT'S ON THE TABLE IS A >> WHAT'S ON THE TABLE IS A MENU OF LIVER AND BROCCOLI.

MENU OF LIVER AND BROCCOLI.

AND THE QUESTION IS, WHICH ARE AND THE QUESTION IS, WHICH ARE YOU GOING TO PICK?

YOU GOING TO PICK?

GWEN: I LIKE LIVER AND GWEN: I LIKE LIVER AND BROCCOLI.

BROCCOLI.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WELL, WHAT DON'T YOU LIKE?

WELL, WHAT DON'T YOU LIKE?

[LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] GWEN: IT'S NOT GOOD STUFF.

GWEN: IT'S NOT GOOD STUFF.

>> THAT'S WHAT'S ON THE MENU.

>> THAT'S WHAT'S ON THE MENU.

THERE AREN'T A LOT OF PAL THERE AREN'T A LOT OF PAL LATABBLE OPTIONS.

LATABBLE OPTIONS.

AS MICHAEL SAID, THEY'RE NOT AS MICHAEL SAID, THEY'RE NOT EAGER TO GET BACK IN THIS.

EAGER TO GET BACK IN THIS.

THIS IS ONE THAT PRESIDENT THIS IS ONE THAT PRESIDENT OBAMA WANTED TO PUT IN HIS OBAMA WANTED TO PUT IN HIS REARVIEW MIRROR.

REARVIEW MIRROR.

HE JUST ANNOUNCED HIS HE JUST ANNOUNCED HIS WITHDRAWAL PLAN FOR AFGHANISTAN WITHDRAWAL PLAN FOR AFGHANISTAN BY THE TIME HE LEAVES OFFICE.

BY THE TIME HE LEAVES OFFICE.

SO YOU'VE GOT INCREASED SO YOU'VE GOT INCREASED INTELLIGENCE, INCREASED INTELLIGENCE, INCREASED EQUIPMENT.

EQUIPMENT.

WE'RE SENDING THESE 300 SPECIAL WE'RE SENDING THESE 300 SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCES.

OPERATIONS FORCES.

YOU HAVE THE POTENTIAL OF DRONE YOU HAVE THE POTENTIAL OF DRONE STRIKES, NONE OF WHICH, AS STRIKES, NONE OF WHICH, AS MICHAEL SAYS, MIGHT ACTUALLY MICHAEL SAYS, MIGHT ACTUALLY CHANGE THE CALCULATION ON THE CHANGE THE CALCULATION ON THE GROUND.

GROUND.

AND YET, WHAT IF YOU DON'T DO AND YET, WHAT IF YOU DON'T DO IT?

IT?

WHAT HAPPENS THEN?

WHAT HAPPENS THEN?

YOU DON'T WANT TO BE MALIKI'S YOU DON'T WANT TO BE MALIKI'S AIR FORCE, BUT YOU ALSO DON'T AIR FORCE, BUT YOU ALSO DON'T WANT TO LEAVE A VACUUM FOR THE WANT TO LEAVE A VACUUM FOR THE IRANIANS TO COME IN AND SAVE IRANIANS TO COME IN AND SAVE THE DAY.

THE DAY.

SO THE PRESIDENT HAS SPENT A SO THE PRESIDENT HAS SPENT A LOT OF TIME THIS WEEK TRYING TO LOT OF TIME THIS WEEK TRYING TO CHEW THROUGH A LOT OF OPTIONS, CHEW THROUGH A LOT OF OPTIONS, NONE OF WHICH TASTE VERY GOOD.

NONE OF WHICH TASTE VERY GOOD.

>> WHAT ARE THOSE 300-SOME >> WHAT ARE THOSE 300-SOME PERSONNEL GOING TO BE DOING?

PERSONNEL GOING TO BE DOING?

IS IT LIKE A SLIPPERY SLOPE IS IT LIKE A SLIPPERY SLOPE THING?

THING?

ARE THESE PEOPLE GOING TO ARE THESE PEOPLE GOING TO STABILIZE THE SITUATION?

STABILIZE THE SITUATION?

>> THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE OUT >> THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE OUT THERE IN FORWARD LOCATIONS.

THERE IN FORWARD LOCATIONS.

THE IDEA IS THEY'LL SET UP THE IDEA IS THEY'LL SET UP FUSION INTELLIGENCE CENTERS TO FUSION INTELLIGENCE CENTERS TO HELP THE IRAQIS GET BETTER HELP THE IRAQIS GET BETTER INTELLIGENCE ABOUT WHERE THEIR INTELLIGENCE ABOUT WHERE THEIR ENEMIES ARE, HOW TO HIT THEM ENEMIES ARE, HOW TO HIT THEM AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

IF IN FACT PRESIDENT OBAMA WERE IF IN FACT PRESIDENT OBAMA WERE LATER TO ORDER DRONE STRIKES OR LATER TO ORDER DRONE STRIKES OR AIR STRIKES, THESE GUYS WOULD AIR STRIKES, THESE GUYS WOULD HELP SET UP TARGETS.

HELP SET UP TARGETS.

THEY'RE NOT MEANT TO BE FORWARD THEY'RE NOT MEANT TO BE FORWARD FIGHTERS, BUT IT DOES ECHO FIGHTERS, BUT IT DOES ECHO STRONGLY IN AN AMERICA THAT STRONGLY IN AN AMERICA THAT REMEMBERS VIETNAM, WHERE REMEMBERS VIETNAM, WHERE ADVISORS QUICKLY BECAME ADVISORS QUICKLY BECAME FIGHTERS, AND NOBODY WANTS TO FIGHTERS, AND NOBODY WANTS TO DO THAT RIGHT NOW ON EITHER DO THAT RIGHT NOW ON EITHER SIDE OF THE POLITICAL AISLE.

SIDE OF THE POLITICAL AISLE.

>> YOU HAD ADVISORS AND THEN >> YOU HAD ADVISORS AND THEN YOU HAD A BOMBING CAMPAIGN AND YOU HAD A BOMBING CAMPAIGN AND YOU HAD TROOPS TO DEFEND THE YOU HAD TROOPS TO DEFEND THE AIR FIELDS FROM WHICH THE AIR FIELDS FROM WHICH THE BOMBING CAMPAIGN WAS LAUNCHED.

BOMBING CAMPAIGN WAS LAUNCHED.

THEN THEY HAD TO GO OUT TO THE THEN THEY HAD TO GO OUT TO THE PERIMETER TO MAKE SURE YOU HAD PERIMETER TO MAKE SURE YOU HAD WIDER AIR FIELDS.

WIDER AIR FIELDS.

IT'S AN ERIE ECHO.

IT'S AN ERIE ECHO.

CNN IS RUNNING A DOCUMENTARY, CNN IS RUNNING A DOCUMENTARY, AND THE EPISODE ON VIETNAM WAS AND THE EPISODE ON VIETNAM WAS THE OTHER NIGHT AND EXPLAINED THE OTHER NIGHT AND EXPLAINED ALL OF THIS.

ALL OF THIS.

IT'S TROUBLING, AND YET THE IT'S TROUBLING, AND YET THE PRESIDENT AND HIS TEAM ARE PRESIDENT AND HIS TEAM ARE EXTREMELY CONSCIOUS THAT THAT EXTREMELY CONSCIOUS THAT THAT NOT HAPPEN.

NOT HAPPEN.

AND IT'S A BIT OF AN APPLE AND AND IT'S A BIT OF AN APPLE AND ORANGE SITUATION HOPEFULLY.

ORANGE SITUATION HOPEFULLY.

>> THERE WAS A PRETTY >> THERE WAS A PRETTY REMARKABLE EXCHANGE HE HAD WITH REMARKABLE EXCHANGE HE HAD WITH REPORTERS AS HE TRIED TO REPORTERS AS HE TRIED TO EXPLAIN HIMSELF THIS WEEK.

EXPLAIN HIMSELF THIS WEEK.

A LOT OF PEOPLE SITTING AT HOME A LOT OF PEOPLE SITTING AT HOME MIGHT HAVE BEEN WONDERING, IS MIGHT HAVE BEEN WONDERING, IS HE TRYING TO RECAST HIS HISTORY HE TRYING TO RECAST HIS HISTORY WITH IRAQ?

WITH IRAQ?

BECAUSE HE BASICALLY SUGGESTED BECAUSE HE BASICALLY SUGGESTED AFTER BEING PROMPTED BY A AFTER BEING PROMPTED BY A QUESTION THAT IT WASN'T HIS QUESTION THAT IT WASN'T HIS DECISION TO LEAVE IRAQ, IT WAS DECISION TO LEAVE IRAQ, IT WAS MALIKI'S DECISION TO LEAVE MALIKI'S DECISION TO LEAVE IRAQ, WHICH IS TOTALLY COUNTER IRAQ, WHICH IS TOTALLY COUNTER TO EVERYTHING HE SAID DURING TO EVERYTHING HE SAID DURING THE 2008 AND THE 2012 CAMPAIGN.

THE 2008 AND THE 2012 CAMPAIGN.

>> IT WAS COMPLICATED.

>> IT WAS COMPLICATED.

HE DID WANT TO GET OUT OF IRAQ.

HE DID WANT TO GET OUT OF IRAQ.

HE DID SET UP A PLAN THAT HE HE DID SET UP A PLAN THAT HE FIRST ADOPTED, AT LEAST IN A FIRST ADOPTED, AT LEAST IN A GENERAL SENSE, FROM PRESIDENT GENERAL SENSE, FROM PRESIDENT BUSH THAT WOULD WITHDRAW TROOPS BUSH THAT WOULD WITHDRAW TROOPS BY THE END OF 2011.

BY THE END OF 2011.

THERE WAS A DISCUSSION IN 2011 THERE WAS A DISCUSSION IN 2011 ABOUT WHETHER TO LEAVE A ABOUT WHETHER TO LEAVE A RESIDUAL FORCE.

RESIDUAL FORCE.

HE WOULD HAVE SAID HE GOT OUT HE WOULD HAVE SAID HE GOT OUT OF IRAQ EVEN IF HE LEFT A SMALL OF IRAQ EVEN IF HE LEFT A SMALL RESIDUAL FORCE.

RESIDUAL FORCE.

BUFF THE QUESTION IS, COULD BUFF THE QUESTION IS, COULD THEY LEAVE 5,000 TROOPS BEHIND?

THEY LEAVE 5,000 TROOPS BEHIND?

MALIKI DIDN'T NECESSARILY WANT MALIKI DIDN'T NECESSARILY WANT THEM.

THEM.

HE WASN'T EXCITED ABOUT THEM.

HE WASN'T EXCITED ABOUT THEM.

MORE IMPORTANTLY, THEY COULDN'T MORE IMPORTANTLY, THEY COULDN'T GET THROUGH PARLIAMENT, A GET THROUGH PARLIAMENT, A MEASURE THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED MEASURE THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO GIVE IMMUNITY TO THESE TO GIVE IMMUNITY TO THESE TROOPS AND THE AMERICAN SIDE TROOPS AND THE AMERICAN SIDE SAID WE'RE NOT GOING TO GO SAID WE'RE NOT GOING TO GO THERE IF WE DON'T HAVE IMMUNITY THERE IF WE DON'T HAVE IMMUNITY FOR OUR TROOPS.

FOR OUR TROOPS.

SO IT BECAME A SITUATION WHERE SO IT BECAME A SITUATION WHERE MALIKI WASN'T THRILLED ABOUT MALIKI WASN'T THRILLED ABOUT HAVING THEM THERE, AND THIS HAVING THEM THERE, AND THIS LEGAL ISSUE BECAME THE FACT LEGAL ISSUE BECAME THE FACT THAT BOTH SIDES ENDED UP THAT BOTH SIDES ENDED UP GETTING OUT OF IT IN EFFECT.

GETTING OUT OF IT IN EFFECT.

>> IT'S AN INTERESTING >> IT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION.

QUESTION.

IT'S ALSO INTERESTING TO NOTE IT'S ALSO INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT HILLARY CLINTON WAS THAT HILLARY CLINTON WAS INTERESTED IN HAVING A LARGER INTERESTED IN HAVING A LARGER FORCE.

FORCE.

SHE WAS AMONG THOSE PEOPLE WHO SHE WAS AMONG THOSE PEOPLE WHO WAS PUSHING FOR IT AND WARNING WAS PUSHING FOR IT AND WARNING THAT WE SHOULD DO THIS.

THAT WE SHOULD DO THIS.

BUT REALLY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BUT REALLY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TECTONIC FORCES, YOU KNOW, A TECTONIC FORCES, YOU KNOW, A RELIGIOUS, A HOLY WAR, A RELIGIOUS, A HOLY WAR, A GOVERNMENT THAT'S JUST GOVERNMENT THAT'S JUST FUNDAMENTALLY NOT WORKING, A FUNDAMENTALLY NOT WORKING, A REGION THAT'S ON FIRE BECAUSE REGION THAT'S ON FIRE BECAUSE OF THE CIVIL WAR IN SYRIA.

OF THE CIVIL WAR IN SYRIA.

SO I THINK THERE'S A REAL LIMIT SO I THINK THERE'S A REAL LIMIT TO HOW MUCH A SMALL AMERICAN TO HOW MUCH A SMALL AMERICAN FORCE THAT PROBABLY WOULD HAVE FORCE THAT PROBABLY WOULD HAVE DWINDLED COULD HAVE PLAYED A DWINDLED COULD HAVE PLAYED A ROLE.

ROLE.

>> ON CAPITOL HILL, AS YOU >> ON CAPITOL HILL, AS YOU POINTED OUT, THERE ARE SOME POINTED OUT, THERE ARE SOME MEMBERS OF THE SENATE, MEMBERS OF THE SENATE, ESPECIALLY, WHO THINK THAT ESPECIALLY, WHO THINK THAT THERE'S SOMETHING -- THEY THERE'S SOMETHING -- THEY SHOULD DO SOMETHING.

SHOULD DO SOMETHING.

BUT THERE'S CAUTION, TOO.

BUT THERE'S CAUTION, TOO.

>> UNTIL THE IRAQ GOVERNMENT >> UNTIL THE IRAQ GOVERNMENT ITSELF IS WILLING TO TAKE SOME ITSELF IS WILLING TO TAKE SOME CONCRETE STEPS TO CHANGE THE CONCRETE STEPS TO CHANGE THE WAY THEY'RE DOING BUSINESS FOR WAY THEY'RE DOING BUSINESS FOR THE PEOPLE, I DON'T THINK WE THE PEOPLE, I DON'T THINK WE OUGHT TO OVERCOMMIT, BECAUSE OUGHT TO OVERCOMMIT, BECAUSE WITHOUT THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING WITHOUT THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET A LOT OF CHANGE.

TO GET A LOT OF CHANGE.

GWEN: SO THE QUESTION IS ABOUT GWEN: SO THE QUESTION IS ABOUT NOURI AL-MALIKI.

NOURI AL-MALIKI.

IT'S COME ALL THE WAY AROUND.

IT'S COME ALL THE WAY AROUND.

ONE THING EVERYBODY AGREES ON, ONE THING EVERYBODY AGREES ON, AT LEAST IN THE UNITED STATES AT LEAST IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT, NOT CRAZY ABOUT GOVERNMENT, NOT CRAZY ABOUT HIM.

HIM.

>> WELL, PRESIDENT BUSH HAD HIS >> WELL, PRESIDENT BUSH HAD HIS ISSUES WITH HIM, TOO.

ISSUES WITH HIM, TOO.

I THINK PRESIDENT OBAMA NEVER I THINK PRESIDENT OBAMA NEVER GOT A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH GOT A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM.

HIM.

THEY DIDN'T FIND HIM THEY DIDN'T FIND HIM TRUSTWORTHY.

TRUSTWORTHY.

HILLARY CLINTON WAS HILLARY CLINTON WAS PARTICULARLY SKEPTICAL OF HIM PARTICULARLY SKEPTICAL OF HIM AND ONCE THE AMERICAN TROOP AND ONCE THE AMERICAN TROOP PRESENCE WAS GONE, HE FELT PRESENCE WAS GONE, HE FELT FREER TO CREATE A SECTARIAN FREER TO CREATE A SECTARIAN GOVERNANCE STYLE WHICH THE SUNNIS FELT LEFT OUT.

SUNNIS FELT LEFT OUT.

THEY'D LIKE HIM TO GO BUT THEY THEY'D LIKE HIM TO GO BUT THEY WON'T SAY IT OUT LOUD BECAUSE WON'T SAY IT OUT LOUD BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY CAN'T INFLUENCE THEY KNOW THEY CAN'T INFLUENCE THAT.

THAT.

GWEN: IS IT POSSIBLE FOR THE GWEN: IS IT POSSIBLE FOR THE COUNTRY TO REGAIN ANY SENSE OF COUNTRY TO REGAIN ANY SENSE OF STABILITY AS LONG AS HE IS STABILITY AS LONG AS HE IS THERE, OR IS HE JUST A THERE, OR IS HE JUST A DISTRACTION?

DISTRACTION?

>> WELL, I SUPPOSE IT'S >> WELL, I SUPPOSE IT'S POSSIBLE IF SHIITE MILITIAS POSSIBLE IF SHIITE MILITIAS MOBILIZE, IF THE MILITARY GETS MOBILIZE, IF THE MILITARY GETS ITS ACT TOGETHER, IF THERE IS ITS ACT TOGETHER, IF THERE IS AN EFFECTIVE COUNTEROFFENSIVE AN EFFECTIVE COUNTEROFFENSIVE AGAINST THE SUNNIS WITH THE AGAINST THE SUNNIS WITH THE HELP OF THE AMERICANS THAT HELP OF THE AMERICANS THAT INCLUDES POSSIBLY A REPEAT OF INCLUDES POSSIBLY A REPEAT OF THE SUNNI AWAKENING THAT THE SUNNI AWAKENING THAT OCCURRED DURING THE SURGE WHILE OCCURRED DURING THE SURGE WHILE WE WERE COOPERATING WITH, AND WE WERE COOPERATING WITH, AND IN SOME CASES ESSENTIALLY IN SOME CASES ESSENTIALLY BUYING OFF SUNNI TRIBESMEN AND BUYING OFF SUNNI TRIBESMEN AND PROMISING AN INCLUSIVE ROLE IN PROMISING AN INCLUSIVE ROLE IN THE GOVERNMENT.

THE GOVERNMENT.

ALL THESE THINGS WOULD HAVE TO ALL THESE THINGS WOULD HAVE TO FALL INTO PLACE.

FALL INTO PLACE.

YOU COULD IMAGINE A SITUATION YOU COULD IMAGINE A SITUATION WHERE HE STABILIZES IT.

WHERE HE STABILIZES IT.

IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO -- IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO -- THINK OF WHAT IS THE PRESS THINK OF WHAT IS THE PRESS DEPARTMENT FOR A GUY WHO'S DEPARTMENT FOR A GUY WHO'S RULING LIKE A -- PRECEDENT FOR RULING LIKE A -- PRECEDENT FOR A GUY WHO'S RULING LIKE A A GUY WHO'S RULING LIKE A DICTATOR TO STEP ASIDE AND SAY DICTATOR TO STEP ASIDE AND SAY PEOPLE CALM DOWN.

PEOPLE CALM DOWN.

IT'S JUST NOT GOING TOAPPE HN.

IT'S JUST NOT GOING TOAPPE HN.

GWEN: BENGHAZI.

GWEN: BENGHAZI.

THEY ARRESTED A SUSPECT THIS THEY ARRESTED A SUSPECT THIS WEEK.

WEEK.

AS WE KNOW, THIS HAS BEEN A AS WE KNOW, THIS HAS BEEN A HUGE POLITICAL HUGE POLITICAL JUST NEVER FADED AWAY.

JUST NEVER FADED AWAY.

DOES THIS END THAT?

DOES THIS END THAT?

>> NO, OF COURSE NOT.

>> NO, OF COURSE NOT.

IT ONLY SIMPLY CREATES A WHOLE IT ONLY SIMPLY CREATES A WHOLE NEW SET OF DOWNS, REALLY, NEW SET OF DOWNS, REALLY, BECAUSE IN FACT NOW WE'VE MOVED BECAUSE IN FACT NOW WE'VE MOVED FROM THE QUESTION OF WHAT DID FROM THE QUESTION OF WHAT DID HILLARY DO AND KNOW AND WHAT HILLARY DO AND KNOW AND WHAT WERE THE TALKING POINTS, AND WERE THE TALKING POINTS, AND WHAT ARE WE DOING WITH THIS GUY WHAT ARE WE DOING WITH THIS GUY ON THE NAVY SHIPS?

ON THE NAVY SHIPS?

THEY SWOOPED IN AND FOUND HIM THEY SWOOPED IN AND FOUND HIM AND BROUGHT HIM TO A U.S.

NAVAL AND BROUGHT HIM TO A U.S.

NAVAL WARSHIP AND INTERROGATED HIM WARSHIP AND INTERROGATED HIM WITHOUT READING HIM MIRANDA WITHOUT READING HIM MIRANDA RIGHTS.

RIGHTS.

WHAT DO WE DO WITH HIM NOW?

WHAT DO WE DO WITH HIM NOW?

HE'S BEEN CHARGED IN CIVILIAN HE'S BEEN CHARGED IN CIVILIAN COURT.

COURT.

THEY PLAN TO TRY HIM IN A THEY PLAN TO TRY HIM IN A CIVILIAN COURT.

CIVILIAN COURT.

REPUBLICAN CRITICS, NOT ALL, REPUBLICAN CRITICS, NOT ALL, BUT A NUMBER SAY THAT'S NOT BUT A NUMBER SAY THAT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

GOOD ENOUGH.

HE'S AN ENEMY COMBATANT, SEND HE'S AN ENEMY COMBATANT, SEND HIM TO GUANTANAMO.

HIM TO GUANTANAMO.

GWEN: WAS HE HIDING IN PLAIN GWEN: WAS HE HIDING IN PLAIN SIGHT ALL THIS TIME?

SIGHT ALL THIS TIME?

>> HE WAS MEETING IN >> HE WAS MEETING IN JOURNALISTS.

JOURNALISTS.

HE FAMOUSLY HAD A STRAWBERRY HE FAMOUSLY HAD A STRAWBERRY FRAP WITH A REPORTER, AND WAS FRAP WITH A REPORTER, AND WAS BOASTFUL ABOUT IT.

BOASTFUL ABOUT IT.

WE SNATCHED ANOTHER MILITANT IN WE SNATCHED ANOTHER MILITANT IN LIBYA SOME MONTHS AGO AND LIBYA SOME MONTHS AGO AND ACTUALLY HAD A RAID IN THE ACTUALLY HAD A RAID IN THE WORKS TO GRAB HIM AT THE SAME WORKS TO GRAB HIM AT THE SAME TIME AND THE FIRST SNATCH WAS TIME AND THE FIRST SNATCH WAS -- WENT PUBLIC ON TWITTER, -- WENT PUBLIC ON TWITTER, WHICH ALERTED HIM -- WHICH WHICH ALERTED HIM -- WHICH CAUSED US TO CALL OFF THE RAID, CAUSED US TO CALL OFF THE RAID, NUMBER ONE, AND WHICH ALERTED NUMBER ONE, AND WHICH ALERTED HIM IN GENERAL THAT THERE WAS HIM IN GENERAL THAT THERE WAS HIGHER DANGER.

HIGHER DANGER.

BY THE WAY, YOU MENTIONED THAT BY THE WAY, YOU MENTIONED THAT WE'RE INTERROGATING HIM PRIOR WE'RE INTERROGATING HIM PRIOR TO HIS MIRANDA RIGHTS.

TO HIS MIRANDA RIGHTS.

FOR VIEWERS WHO MIGHT NOT BE FOR VIEWERS WHO MIGHT NOT BE CLEAR, THIS IS A NEW PRACTICE CLEAR, THIS IS A NEW PRACTICE WHERE, TO KIND OF SPLIT THE WHERE, TO KIND OF SPLIT THE BABY, SO TO SPEAK.

BABY, SO TO SPEAK.

A TEAM COMES IN AND WILL A TEAM COMES IN AND WILL INTERROGATE A TERROR SUSPECT INTERROGATE A TERROR SUSPECT BEFORE THEY'VE BEEN READ THEIR BEFORE THEY'VE BEEN READ THEIR RIGHTS TO GET ESSENTIALLY RIGHTS TO GET ESSENTIALLY ACTIONABLE INTELLIGENCE.

ACTIONABLE INTELLIGENCE.

DO YOU KNOW ABOUT ANY PLOTS IN DO YOU KNOW ABOUT ANY PLOTS IN THE WORKS?

THE WORKS?

ANYTHING WE NEED TO ACT ON ANYTHING WE NEED TO ACT ON IMMEDIATELY?

IMMEDIATELY?

THEY DO STRETCH THE DEFINITION THEY DO STRETCH THE DEFINITION OF IMMINENCE A LITTLE BIT.

OF IMMINENCE A LITTLE BIT.

BUT THEN A FRESH TEAM COMES IN, BUT THEN A FRESH TEAM COMES IN, READS HIM HIS RIGHTS AND STARTS READS HIM HIS RIGHTS AND STARTS TO QUESTION HIM AND THAT'S WHAT TO QUESTION HIM AND THAT'S WHAT YOU CAN INTRODUCE HIM INTO YOU CAN INTRODUCE HIM INTO COURT.

COURT.

SO THE INITIAL INTERROGATION IS SO THE INITIAL INTERROGATION IS FOR INTELLIGENCE PURPOSES, NOT FOR INTELLIGENCE PURPOSES, NOT FOR LEGAL PURPOSES, MAYBE A FOR LEGAL PURPOSES, MAYBE A HAPPY COMPROMISE.

HAPPY COMPROMISE.

>> DO THEY ROUGH HIM UP DURING >> DO THEY ROUGH HIM UP DURING THAT FIRST ROUND?

THAT FIRST ROUND?

>> THERE'S NO ROUGHING UP NOW.

>> THERE'S NO ROUGHING UP NOW.

THE PRESIDENT SAID WE DON'T THE PRESIDENT SAID WE DON'T TORTURE ANYMORE, AND THOSE TORTURE ANYMORE, AND THOSE PRACTICES ARE OVER.

PRACTICES ARE OVER.

AND THERE ARE A LOT OF WAYS IN AND THERE ARE A LOT OF WAYS IN WHICH THIS PRESIDENT HAS WHICH THIS PRESIDENT HAS CONTINUED THE KIND OF CONTINUED THE KIND OF COUNTERTERROR POLICIES OF THE COUNTERTERROR POLICIES OF THE BUSH-CHENEY PRESIDENCY IN WAYS BUSH-CHENEY PRESIDENCY IN WAYS THAT HAVE DISAPPOINTED THAT HAVE DISAPPOINTED LIBERALS.

LIBERALS.

TO TAKE A NOTABLE EXAMPLE, TO TAKE A NOTABLE EXAMPLE, GUANTANAMO IS STILL OPEN.

GUANTANAMO IS STILL OPEN.

BUT TORTURE, NO, IT'S OVER.

BUT TORTURE, NO, IT'S OVER.

GWEN: WE HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION GWEN: WE HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION AND THEN WE HAVE TO MOVE ON.

AND THEN WE HAVE TO MOVE ON.

THERE WAS A LOT OF DRAMA AFTER THERE WAS A LOT OF DRAMA AFTER THE BERG DAHL -- THE BERG DAHL -- > THEY DID NOTIFY LEADERS, AND > THEY DID NOTIFY LEADERS, AND IT LEAKED OUT.

IT LEAKED OUT.

THEREFORE YOU SHOULDN'T BE THEREFORE YOU SHOULDN'T BE HOLDING BACK ON OTHER THINGS HOLDING BACK ON OTHER THINGS FROM US.

FROM US.

COIF WE HAVE TO MOVE ON TO THE COIF WE HAVE TO MOVE ON TO THE BIG DRAMA IN CAPITOL HILL, BIG DRAMA IN CAPITOL HILL, CLOSED DOORS, SMOKE-FILLED CLOSED DOORS, SMOKE-FILLED ROOMS, JOCKEYING FOR LEADERSHIP ROOMS, JOCKEYING FOR LEADERSHIP AND THIS IS HOW IT LOOKED WHEN AND THIS IS HOW IT LOOKED WHEN THE DUST SETTLED.

THE DUST SETTLED.

TO THE AVERAGE CITIZEN, PRETTY TO THE AVERAGE CITIZEN, PRETTY MUCH HOW IT LOOKED BEFORE.

MUCH HOW IT LOOKED BEFORE.

KEVIN MCCARTHY IS THE NEW HOUSE KEVIN MCCARTHY IS THE NEW HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER.

MAJORITY LEADER.

THIS IS HOW HE DESCRIBES THIS IS HOW HE DESCRIBES HIMSELF.

HIMSELF.

>> THEY ELECTED A GUY WHO IS A >> THEY ELECTED A GUY WHO IS A GRANDSON OF A CATTLE RANCHER, GRANDSON OF A CATTLE RANCHER, THE SON OF A FIREFIGHTER.

THE SON OF A FIREFIGHTER.

ONLY IN AMERICA DO YOU GET THAT ONLY IN AMERICA DO YOU GET THAT OPPORTUNITY.

OPPORTUNITY.

THEY ELECTED A GUY THAT'S ONLY THEY ELECTED A GUY THAT'S ONLY GROWN UP THROUGH THE GRASS GROWN UP THROUGH THE GRASS ROOTS.

ROOTS.

THEY ELECTED A GUY THAT'S SPENT THEY ELECTED A GUY THAT'S SPENT HIS TIME GOING AROUND HIS TIME GOING AROUND RECRUITING MANY OF THESE RECRUITING MANY OF THESE INDIVIDUALS TO GET THE INDIVIDUALS TO GET THE MAJORITY.

MAJORITY.

GWEN: HE'S BEEN IN LEADERSHIP GWEN: HE'S BEEN IN LEADERSHIP FOR A WHILE.

FOR A WHILE.

WHAT'S NEW, ED?

WHAT'S NEW, ED?

>> A LITTLE MORE YOUTH AND >> A LITTLE MORE YOUTH AND INEXPERIENCE, TO PUT IT INEXPERIENCE, TO PUT IT BLUNTLY.

BLUNTLY.

MCCARTHY IS 49.

MCCARTHY IS 49.

HE'S BEEN IN CONGRESS SINCE HE'S BEEN IN CONGRESS SINCE 2007.

2007.

HAVING WON THIS WEEK, HE IS THE HAVING WON THIS WEEK, HE IS THE FASTEST-RISING MAJORITY LEADER FASTEST-RISING MAJORITY LEADER IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

SO HE IS NOW IN CHARGE OF SO HE IS NOW IN CHARGE OF RUNNING THE SCHEDULE, DECIDING RUNNING THE SCHEDULE, DECIDING WHAT BILLS GET TO THE FLOOR, WHAT BILLS GET TO THE FLOOR, DETERMINING WHETHER THEY HAVE DETERMINING WHETHER THEY HAVE TO BE PULLED.

TO BE PULLED.

A LOT OF MECHANICS.

A LOT OF MECHANICS.

BUT HE'S PREPARED HIMSELF WELL, BUT HE'S PREPARED HIMSELF WELL, HAVING SPENT THE LAST FEW HAVING SPENT THE LAST FEW YEARS, AS HE SAID, RECRUITING YEARS, AS HE SAID, RECRUITING MOST OF THESE GUYS TO SHOW UP MOST OF THESE GUYS TO SHOW UP HERE IN WASHINGTON.

HERE IN WASHINGTON.

HE CASHED IN HIS FAVORS, HE CASHED IN HIS FAVORS, BASICALLY, OVER THE LAST 10 BASICALLY, OVER THE LAST 10 DAYS AND WAS ABLE TO DAYS AND WAS ABLE TO SUCCESSFULLY SUCCEED CANTOR.

SUCCESSFULLY SUCCEED CANTOR.

HIM MOVING INTO THE MAJORITY HIM MOVING INTO THE MAJORITY POSITION OPENED UP THE WHIP, POSITION OPENED UP THE WHIP, THAT WEIRD NAME.

THAT WEIRD NAME.

THEY'RE IN CHARGE OF COUNTING THEY'RE IN CHARGE OF COUNTING THE VOTES.

THE VOTES.

STEVE SCALISE, A REPUBLICAN STEVE SCALISE, A REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMEN, WHO IS 48 YEARS CONGRESSMEN, WHO IS 48 YEARS OLD AND ONLY BEEN IN CONGRESS OLD AND ONLY BEEN IN CONGRESS SINCE 2008, IS NOW IN CHARGE OF SINCE 2008, IS NOW IN CHARGE OF DOING THAT.

DOING THAT.

WHY WAS HE ABLE TO DO IT?

WHY WAS HE ABLE TO DO IT?

VERY SIMPLY, HE RUNS THE VERY SIMPLY, HE RUNS THE REPUBLICAN STUDY COMMITTEE REPUBLICAN STUDY COMMITTEE WHICH IS THE LARGEST CAUCUS ON WHICH IS THE LARGEST CAUCUS ON CAPITOL HILL.

CAPITOL HILL.

IT'S OF ALL THE CONSERVATIVE IT'S OF ALL THE CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS.

REPUBLICANS.

HE KNOWS WHERE THEY ARE, HE HE KNOWS WHERE THEY ARE, HE KNOWS THEIR POLITICS AND HE KNOWS THEIR POLITICS AND HE BASICALLY ALSO CASHED IN SOME BASICALLY ALSO CASHED IN SOME FAVORS AND GOT HIMSELF A JOB.

FAVORS AND GOT HIMSELF A JOB.

>> DO YOU THINK THIS IS GOING >> DO YOU THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE ENOUGH OF A SHAKEUP OF TO BE ENOUGH OF A SHAKEUP OF THE LEADERSHIP, ENOUGH CHANGE?

THE LEADERSHIP, ENOUGH CHANGE?

AS YOU SAY, IT'S JUST MCCARTHY AS YOU SAY, IT'S JUST MCCARTHY MOVING UP.

MOVING UP.

THERE'S ONE NEW LEADER, THERE'S ONE NEW LEADER, SCALISE.

SCALISE.

THE TEA PARTY GROUPS AND THE THE TEA PARTY GROUPS AND THE CONSERVATIVES REALLY THOUGHT CONSERVATIVES REALLY THOUGHT THAT THE LESSON OF ERIC CANTOR THAT THE LESSON OF ERIC CANTOR BEING DEFEATED, AND THAT WAS BEING DEFEATED, AND THAT WAS THE PRIMARY ELECTION THAT SET THE PRIMARY ELECTION THAT SET OFF ALL OF THESE CHANGES, THE OFF ALL OF THESE CHANGES, THE LESSON WAS THE ESTABLISHMENT LESSON WAS THE ESTABLISHMENT HAD TO CHANGE ITS WAYS AND MOVE HAD TO CHANGE ITS WAYS AND MOVE REALLY FAR TO THE RIGHT.

REALLY FAR TO THE RIGHT.

DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THERE'S DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THERE'S REALLY THAT MUCH CHANGE.

REALLY THAT MUCH CHANGE.

>> A LOT OF IT WILL REST WITH >> A LOT OF IT WILL REST WITH SCALISE.

SCALISE.

HE MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS OF HE MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS OF ABOUT 1/3 OF THE CAUCUS.

ABOUT 1/3 OF THE CAUCUS.

HE'S FROM THE SOUTH.

HE'S FROM THE SOUTH.

HE'S MUCH MORE TO STAND UP HE'S MUCH MORE TO STAND UP TO LEADERSHIP AND SAY I DON'T TO LEADERSHIP AND SAY I DON'T LIKE WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND TO LIKE WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND TO SOMETIMES VOTE AGAINST THEM.

SOMETIMES VOTE AGAINST THEM.

IF HE IS ABLE TO NOW WORK WITH IF HE IS ABLE TO NOW WORK WITH BOEHNER AND MCCARTHY AND SORT BOEHNER AND MCCARTHY AND SORT OF EXPLAIN OR MODIFY OF EXPLAIN OR MODIFY LEGISLATION IN A WAY THAT IS LEGISLATION IN A WAY THAT IS AMENABLE TO THESE GUYS, AMENABLE TO THESE GUYS, POTENTIALLY, YES, THINGS WILL POTENTIALLY, YES, THINGS WILL GO BETTER.

GO BETTER.

BUT THEY HAVE SO MANY COMPLEX BUT THEY HAVE SO MANY COMPLEX DIFFERENT ISSUES TO DEAL WITH DIFFERENT ISSUES TO DEAL WITH BEFORE NOVEMBER THAT I DON'T BEFORE NOVEMBER THAT I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO GET MUCH THINK IT'S GOING TO GET MUCH EASIER, BECAUSE HE'S GOING TO EASIER, BECAUSE HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO RALLY REPUBLICAN HAVE TO RALLY REPUBLICAN SUPPORT OR SPEAKER BOEHNER WILL SUPPORT OR SPEAKER BOEHNER WILL HAVE TO GO TO DEMOCRATS AND TRY HAVE TO GO TO DEMOCRATS AND TRY TO GET SOMETHING DONE, AND WE TO GET SOMETHING DONE, AND WE KNOW THAT'S TOTALLY KNOW THAT'S TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE TO REPUBLICANS.

UNACCEPTABLE TO REPUBLICANS.

>> THE BIG ISSUE ON THE >> THE BIG ISSUE ON THE PRESIDENT'S PLATE THAT HE'D PRESIDENT'S PLATE THAT HE'D LIKE THEM TO FOCUS ON IS LIKE THEM TO FOCUS ON IS IMMIGRATION.

IMMIGRATION.

AFTER CANTOR'S DEFEAT HE SAID AFTER CANTOR'S DEFEAT HE SAID WELL, THAT'S DONE, NOT THAT HE WELL, THAT'S DONE, NOT THAT HE WAS A SUPPORTER OF THE WAS A SUPPORTER OF THE PRESIDENT'S PLAN, BUT PEOPLE PRESIDENT'S PLAN, BUT PEOPLE FELT LIKE HE WOULD BE MORE FELT LIKE HE WOULD BE MORE AMENABLE.

AMENABLE.

HE TOOK A LOT OF HITS ON IT AND HE TOOK A LOT OF HITS ON IT AND THEREFORE ALL THE REPUBLICANS THEREFORE ALL THE REPUBLICANS WOULD NO LONGER BE AT ALL OPEN WOULD NO LONGER BE AT ALL OPEN TO IT.

TO IT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE RAN OUT ON >> A LOT OF PEOPLE RAN OUT ON THE MORNING AFTER CANTOR'S LOSS THE MORNING AFTER CANTOR'S LOSS AND SAID IMMIGRATION IS DEAD.

AND SAID IMMIGRATION IS DEAD.

THAT'S THE REASON HE LOST.

THAT'S THE REASON HE LOST.

THAT'S NOT THE ENTIRE REASON HE THAT'S NOT THE ENTIRE REASON HE LOST.

LOST.

BUT THERE'S NO REASON TO BUT THERE'S NO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THERE WILL BE BELIEVE THAT THERE WILL BE MEANINGFUL IMMIGRATION REFORM MEANINGFUL IMMIGRATION REFORM DONE BY CONGRESS IN THE NEXT DONE BY CONGRESS IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS.

FEW MONTHS.

YOU'LL SEE THE PRESIDENT START YOU'LL SEE THE PRESIDENT START TO TAKE UNILATERAL ACTION.

TO TAKE UNILATERAL ACTION.

MEMBERS OF THE REPUBLICAN WILL MEMBERS OF THE REPUBLICAN WILL REACT VIOLENTLY.

REACT VIOLENTLY.

GWEN: BIG THINGS DON'T HAPPEN GWEN: BIG THINGS DON'T HAPPEN IN A MIDTERM ELECTION YEAR.

IN A MIDTERM ELECTION YEAR.

>> IF THEY HAD MOUNTEDD HIS >> IF THEY HAD MOUNTEDD HIS DISTRICT, IT MIGHT HAVE BECOME DISTRICT, IT MIGHT HAVE BECOME A BIG PROBLEM FOR MCCARTHY.

A BIG PROBLEM FOR MCCARTHY.

THERE WERE NEIGHBORING THERE WERE NEIGHBORING DISTRICTS IN THE FARMING AREAS DISTRICTS IN THE FARMING AREAS OF CALIFORNIA WHERE REPUBLICANS OF CALIFORNIA WHERE REPUBLICANS ARE RUNNING SCARED BECAUSE ARE RUNNING SCARED BECAUSE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES ARE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES ARE RUNNING AGAINST THEM AND SAYING RUNNING AGAINST THEM AND SAYING IMMIGRATION IS THE REASON WE IMMIGRATION IS THE REASON WE NEED TO GET THIS GUY OUT.

NEED TO GET THIS GUY OUT.

MCCARTHY COMES FROM THAT MCCARTHY COMES FROM THAT AGRICULTURAL PART OF THE STATE AGRICULTURAL PART OF THE STATE AND UNDERSTANDS THIS NEEDS TO AND UNDERSTANDS THIS NEEDS TO BE DONE BUT IT'S UNLIKELY HE'LL BE DONE BUT IT'S UNLIKELY HE'LL BE ABLE TO CONVINCE HIS CAUCUS BE ABLE TO CONVINCE HIS CAUCUS TO DO IT.

TO DO IT.

>> ANY OTHER POSSIBLE AREAS OF >> ANY OTHER POSSIBLE AREAS OF COOPERATION WITH THE PRESIDENT?

COOPERATION WITH THE PRESIDENT?

SEEMS TO ME THAT THE CHANGE IN SEEMS TO ME THAT THE CHANGE IN TERMS OF AN AVERAGE AMERICAN'S TERMS OF AN AVERAGE AMERICAN'S EXPERIENCE AND WHAT WASHINGTON EXPERIENCE AND WHAT WASHINGTON IS DOING FOR THE REST OF THE IS DOING FOR THE REST OF THE COUNTRY IS VERY MARGINAL, THAT COUNTRY IS VERY MARGINAL, THAT WE'RE STILL IN A CASE OF WE'RE STILL IN A CASE OF GRIDLOCK AND STALEMATE AND GRIDLOCK AND STALEMATE AND PROBABLY ARE UNTIL WE HAVE A PROBABLY ARE UNTIL WE HAVE A NEW PRESIDENT.

NEW PRESIDENT.

>> YES, THAT'S CERTAINLY ONE >> YES, THAT'S CERTAINLY ONE WAY TO PUT IT.

WAY TO PUT IT.

I THINK THEY HAVE TO DEAL WITH, I THINK THEY HAVE TO DEAL WITH, FOR EXAMPLE, A NEW HIGHWAY BILL FOR EXAMPLE, A NEW HIGHWAY BILL TO FUND ALL THE CONSTRUCTION TO FUND ALL THE CONSTRUCTION ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THEY HAVE TO SPUT SPENDING THEY HAVE TO SPUT SPENDING BILLS IN PLACE SO WE HAVE A NEW BILLS IN PLACE SO WE HAVE A NEW SHUTDOWN STARTING OCTOBER 1.

SHUTDOWN STARTING OCTOBER 1.

THEY HAVE TO RE-AUTHORIZE THE THEY HAVE TO RE-AUTHORIZE THE EXPORT BANK, WHICH IS BIG FOR EXPORT BANK, WHICH IS BIG FOR COMPANIES LIKE BOEING.

COMPANIES LIKE BOEING.

A LOST REPUBLICANS DON'T LIKE A LOST REPUBLICANS DON'T LIKE THE CONCEPT OF THAT BANK AND THE CONCEPT OF THAT BANK AND YET IT HAS TO BE DONE BY THE YET IT HAS TO BE DONE BY THE END OF SEPTEMBER AS WELL.

END OF SEPTEMBER AS WELL.

THAT CAUSES GRID LOCKE.

THAT CAUSES GRID LOCKE.

YOU'LL HAVE THE HOUSE PASS A YOU'LL HAVE THE HOUSE PASS A REPUBLICAN-FRIENDLY VERSION OF REPUBLICAN-FRIENDLY VERSION OF IT AND THEY WILL SAY ABSOLUTELY IT AND THEY WILL SAY ABSOLUTELY NOT AND THEY'LL HIT THE GRID NOT AND THEY'LL HIT THE GRID LOCKE OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

LOCKE OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

THERE ARE ONLY 40 LEGISLATIVE THERE ARE ONLY 40 LEGISLATIVE DAYS LEFT UNTIL ELECTION DAY.

DAYS LEFT UNTIL ELECTION DAY.

NOT NEARLY ENOUGH TIME TO DO NOT NEARLY ENOUGH TIME TO DO THIS KIND OF WORK.

THIS KIND OF WORK.

GWEN: YOU MEAN LEGISLATIVE DAY, GWEN: YOU MEAN LEGISLATIVE DAY, RIGHT?

RIGHT?

>> MEANING THEY'LL BE HERE AND >> MEANING THEY'LL BE HERE AND HOLDING VOTES.

HOLDING VOTES.

GWEN: JOHN BOEHNER AFTER ALL GWEN: JOHN BOEHNER AFTER ALL THE DUST SETTLED THIS WEEK, IS THE DUST SETTLED THIS WEEK, IS HE FINE?

HE FINE?

>> HE'S STILL THERE.

>> HE'S STILL THERE.

CONVENTIONAL WISDOM SUGGESTS CONVENTIONAL WISDOM SUGGESTS THAT HE WILL STAY ON TO PROVIDE THAT HE WILL STAY ON TO PROVIDE STABILITY.

STABILITY.

I WOULD ARGUE THAT HE AND I WOULD ARGUE THAT HE AND MCCARTHY FACE RE-ELECTION IN MCCARTHY FACE RE-ELECTION IN MID NOVEMBER, WHEN REPUBLICANS MID NOVEMBER, WHEN REPUBLICANS RETURN FROM THE ELECTIONS, HAVE RETURN FROM THE ELECTIONS, HAVE TO SET IN PLACE THEIR CAUCUS TO SET IN PLACE THEIR CAUCUS FOR THE NEXT TWO-YEAR CYCLE.

FOR THE NEXT TWO-YEAR CYCLE.

AND IF FOR SOME REASON MCCARTHY AND IF FOR SOME REASON MCCARTHY OR BOEHNER HAVE STUMBLED, THEY OR BOEHNER HAVE STUMBLED, THEY MAY FACE ANOTHER CHALLENGE.

MAY FACE ANOTHER CHALLENGE.

GWEN: AND THIS DRAMA GETS GWEN: AND THIS DRAMA GETS REVISITED AGAIN.

REVISITED AGAIN.

REPUBLICANS MAY HAVE BEEN REPUBLICANS MAY HAVE BEEN TRYING TO FIND THEIR FOOTING TRYING TO FIND THEIR FOOTING THIS WEEK BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THIS WEEK BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE DEMOCRATS GOT TO SIT BACK THE DEMOCRATS GOT TO SIT BACK AND SMIRK.

AND SMIRK.

IN FACT, A NEW "WALL STREET IN FACT, A NEW "WALL STREET JOURNAL" JOURNAL/NBC NEWS POLL JOURNAL" JOURNAL/NBC NEWS POLL SUGGESTS THAT WHEN IT COMES TO SUGGESTS THAT WHEN IT COMES TO FOREIGN POLICY, THE PRESIDENT'S FOREIGN POLICY, THE PRESIDENT'S SUPPORT IS SINKING LIKE A SUPPORT IS SINKING LIKE A STONE.

STONE.

IF YOU FOLLOW THE BOUNCING BALL IF YOU FOLLOW THE BOUNCING BALL FROM SNOWDEN TO SYRIA TO FROM SNOWDEN TO SYRIA TO UKRAINE TO BERG DAHL TO IRAQ, UKRAINE TO BERG DAHL TO IRAQ, THE PRESIDENT'S DISAPPROVAL THE PRESIDENT'S DISAPPROVAL NUMBERS HAVE BEEN ON THE RISE.

NUMBERS HAVE BEEN ON THE RISE.

SO DOES THE POLLING TELL US WHY SO DOES THE POLLING TELL US WHY THAT IS, JANET?

THAT IS, JANET?

>> IT'S REALLY INTERESTING, >> IT'S REALLY INTERESTING, BECAUSE I THINK THAT HIS BECAUSE I THINK THAT HIS APPROVAL RATINGS ARE GOING DOWN APPROVAL RATINGS ARE GOING DOWN NOT SO MUCH BECAUSE PEOPLE NOT SO MUCH BECAUSE PEOPLE DISAGREE WITH HIM ON A LOT OF DISAGREE WITH HIM ON A LOT OF ISSUES, BUT IT'S MORE A GENERAL ISSUES, BUT IT'S MORE A GENERAL INDICTMENT OF HIS LEADERSHIP, INDICTMENT OF HIS LEADERSHIP, THAT PEOPLE ARE LOSING THAT PEOPLE ARE LOSING CONFIDENCE IN HIM FOR REASONS CONFIDENCE IN HIM FOR REASONS THAT ARE SEPARATE FROM HIS THAT ARE SEPARATE FROM HIS POSITIONS THAT HE'S TAKING.

POSITIONS THAT HE'S TAKING.

NOW, ON FOREIGN POLICY -- AND NOW, ON FOREIGN POLICY -- AND THAT'S REALLY WHERE THE ACTION THAT'S REALLY WHERE THE ACTION IS THESE DAYS.

IS THESE DAYS.

I MEAN, HE'S BEEN -- HIS I MEAN, HE'S BEEN -- HIS APPROVAL RATING HAS DROPPED APPROVAL RATING HAS DROPPED EVEN MORE PRECIPITOUSLY.

EVEN MORE PRECIPITOUSLY.

OVERALL HIS APPROVAL RATING WAS OVERALL HIS APPROVAL RATING WAS 41% AND ON FOREIGN POLICY A 41% AND ON FOREIGN POLICY A RECORD LOW OF 37%.

RECORD LOW OF 37%.

REALLY HE'S BEEN FACE AGO LOT REALLY HE'S BEEN FACE AGO LOT OF SITUATIONS OVER WHICH HE OF SITUATIONS OVER WHICH HE DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF -- FACING DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF -- FACING A LOT OF SITUATIONS OVER WHICH A LOT OF SITUATIONS OVER WHICH HE DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF HE DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF CONTROL, IRAQ IS FALLING APART CONTROL, IRAQ IS FALLING APART AND RUSSIA AND UKRAINE.

AND RUSSIA AND UKRAINE.

ALL OF THESE THINGS THAT HE ALL OF THESE THINGS THAT HE DOESN'T SET THE AGENDA IN DOESN'T SET THE AGENDA IN INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS.

INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS.

BUT THE WAY HE'S BEEN HANDLING BUT THE WAY HE'S BEEN HANDLING IT HASN'T INSPIRED MUCH IT HASN'T INSPIRED MUCH CONFIDENCE IN PEOPLE.

CONFIDENCE IN PEOPLE.

AND PROBABLY THE MORE DAMNING AND PROBABLY THE MORE DAMNING FINDING OR THE MORE INTERESTING FINDING OR THE MORE INTERESTING FINDING THAT I SAW IN OUR POLL FINDING THAT I SAW IN OUR POLL WAS WE ASKED A QUESTION ABOUT WAS WE ASKED A QUESTION ABOUT MORE GENERAL COMPETENCE.

MORE GENERAL COMPETENCE.

DO YOU THINK THAT THE DO YOU THINK THAT THE ADMINISTRATION IS COMPETENT?

ADMINISTRATION IS COMPETENT?

AND IT WAS LIKE 50/50.

AND IT WAS LIKE 50/50.

SOME PEOPLE THOUGHT, WELL, SOME PEOPLE THOUGHT, WELL, YEAH, HE'S KINDS OF COMPETENT.

YEAH, HE'S KINDS OF COMPETENT.

ANOTHER 50% THOUGHT THAT HE WAS ANOTHER 50% THOUGHT THAT HE WAS NOT.

NOT.

GWEN: SOUNDS LIKE THE MAIN GWEN: SOUNDS LIKE THE MAIN ARGUMENT BEING MADE BY THE ARGUMENT BEING MADE BY THE PRESIDENT'S BIGGEST DETRACTORS PRESIDENT'S BIGGEST DETRACTORS THAT HE IS W W WNCOMPETENT OR THAT HE IS W W WNCOMPETENT OR ISN'T A LEADER, THAT THAT'S ISN'T A LEADER, THAT THAT'S WHAT'S STICKING.

WHAT'S STICKING.

>> YES.

>> YES.

ONE OF THE QUESTIONS HAD TO DO ONE OF THE QUESTIONS HAD TO DO WITH HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK HE WITH HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK HE CAN DO IN THE REST OF HIS CAN DO IN THE REST OF HIS PRESIDENCY, AND PEOPLE WERE PRESIDENCY, AND PEOPLE WERE VERY PESSIMISTIC ABOUT THAT.

VERY PESSIMISTIC ABOUT THAT.

54% SAID HE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO 54% SAID HE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GET THE JOB DONE.

GET THE JOB DONE.

SOME OF THAT IS JUST A SENSE OF SOME OF THAT IS JUST A SENSE OF THE GRID LOCKE AND SOME OF IT THE GRID LOCKE AND SOME OF IT IS A SENSE THAT HE IS A WEAK IS A SENSE THAT HE IS A WEAK LEADER.

LEADER.

>> YOUR COMPETENCE QUESTION WAS >> YOUR COMPETENCE QUESTION WAS INTERESTING, BECAUSE IT WAS INTERESTING, BECAUSE IT WAS ROUGHLY WHERE BUSH WAS AT THE ROUGHLY WHERE BUSH WAS AT THE SAME POINT OF HIS PRESIDENCY SAME POINT OF HIS PRESIDENCY AFTER KATRINA AND IRAQ.

AFTER KATRINA AND IRAQ.

IT WAS DEVASTATING FOR HIM.

IT WAS DEVASTATING FOR HIM.

HE NEVER WAS ABLE TO GET BACK HE NEVER WAS ABLE TO GET BACK MOMENTUM AFTER THAT PERIOD OF MOMENTUM AFTER THAT PERIOD OF HIS PRESIDENCY AND THAT'S WHERE HIS PRESIDENCY AND THAT'S WHERE OBAMA IS CHALLENGED, HOW DO YOU OBAMA IS CHALLENGED, HOW DO YOU GET BACK INTO MOMENTUM.

GET BACK INTO MOMENTUM.

BUT PEOPLE DO SUPPORT HIM IN A BUT PEOPLE DO SUPPORT HIM IN A NUMBER OF ISSUES, CLIMATE NUMBER OF ISSUES, CLIMATE CHANGE DR CHANGE DR >> NOT JUST A NUMBER.

>> NOT JUST A NUMBER.

ALL OF THE MAJOR ISSUES, A ALL OF THE MAJOR ISSUES, A MAJORITY OR A PLURALITY OF MAJORITY OR A PLURALITY OF PEOPLE ARE SUPPORTING HIM ON PEOPLE ARE SUPPORTING HIM ON CLIMATE CHANGE.

CLIMATE CHANGE.

I LOVE THIS FINDING.

I LOVE THIS FINDING.

DO YOU FEEL GOOD OR BAD ABOUT DO YOU FEEL GOOD OR BAD ABOUT DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND POLICIES, DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND POLICIES, THEY LOVE THE E.P.A.

THEY LOVE THE E.P.A.

MORE PEOPLE LIKE THE E.P.A.

MORE PEOPLE LIKE THE E.P.A.

THAN LIKED HILLARY CLINTON OR THAN LIKED HILLARY CLINTON OR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

[LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] SO THEY SUPPORT CLIMATE CHANGE SO THEY SUPPORT CLIMATE CHANGE REGULATION.

REGULATION.

THEY SUPPORT THE COMMON CORE.

THEY SUPPORT THE COMMON CORE.

EVEN CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS EVEN CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS WE FOUND WERE SPLIT ON THE WE FOUND WERE SPLIT ON THE EDUCATION STANDARDS WE CALL EDUCATION STANDARDS WE CALL COMMON CORE.

COMMON CORE.

IMMIGRATION REFORM, MORE PEOPLE IMMIGRATION REFORM, MORE PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT IT HELPED THE THOUGHT THAT IT HELPED THE COUNTRY MORE THAN HURT IT.

COUNTRY MORE THAN HURT IT.

GWEN: SOMEHOW NONE OF THAT GWEN: SOMEHOW NONE OF THAT TRANSLATES.

TRANSLATES.

>> NONE OF THAT TRANSLATES.

>> NONE OF THAT TRANSLATES.

>> WHAT ABOUT REPUBLICANS?

>> WHAT ABOUT REPUBLICANS?

>> ONE OF OUR POLLSTERS SAID >> ONE OF OUR POLLSTERS SAID WHEN WE WERE DOING THE WHEN WE WERE DOING THE BRIEFING, IT'S BAD FOR OBAMA, BRIEFING, IT'S BAD FOR OBAMA, BUT NOTHING IN HERE IS GOOD FOR BUT NOTHING IN HERE IS GOOD FOR ANYBODY ELSE EITHER.

ANYBODY ELSE EITHER.

THE STANDING OF THE REPUBLICAN THE STANDING OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY REMAINS OVERALL LOWER PARTY REMAINS OVERALL LOWER THAN DEMOCRATS.

THAN DEMOCRATS.

THE GENERIC BALLOT QUESTION THE GENERIC BALLOT QUESTION THAT WE ASK ABOUT, WOULD YOU THAT WE ASK ABOUT, WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE CONGRESS BE RATHER HAVE CONGRESS BE DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN, IT'S A DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN, IT'S A SLIGHT EDGE FOR DEMOCRATS.

SLIGHT EDGE FOR DEMOCRATS.

SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT CLEAR SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT CLEAR THAT THE MISTRUST OF OBAMA IS THAT THE MISTRUST OF OBAMA IS TRANSLATING INTO TRUST FOR TRANSLATING INTO TRUST FOR REPUBLICANS.

REPUBLICANS.

I MEAN, THERE'S GENERALLY A I MEAN, THERE'S GENERALLY A SENSE THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE SENSE THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE A GOOD POLITICAL YEAR FOR THE A GOOD POLITICAL YEAR FOR THE REPUBLICANS.

REPUBLICANS.

BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE ANY BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE ANY KIND OF LANDSLIDE.

KIND OF LANDSLIDE.

>> IS THERE ANY CONSOLATION >> IS THERE ANY CONSOLATION THAT FOREIGN POLICY ISN'T THAT FOREIGN POLICY ISN'T TYPICALLY A PRIME ISSUE FOR TYPICALLY A PRIME ISSUE FOR VOTERS?

VOTERS?

IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU HAVE TO IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU HAVE TO BE HURTING ON DEMICK OR BE HURTING ON DEMICK OR FOREIGN, YOU'RE BETTER OFF FOREIGN, YOU'RE BETTER OFF HURTING ON FOREIGN POLICY.

HURTING ON FOREIGN POLICY.

DOES IT MAKE IT ANY LESS DOES IT MAKE IT ANY LESS PAINFUL FOR THE PRESIDENT?

PAINFUL FOR THE PRESIDENT?

>> THAT'S A GOOD POINT.

>> THAT'S A GOOD POINT.

IT'S ONE THING TO FEEL IT'S ONE THING TO FEEL MISTRUSTFUL OF THE PRESIDENT MISTRUSTFUL OF THE PRESIDENT BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE THE WAY BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE THE WAY HE'S DEALING WITH RUSSIA.

HE'S DEALING WITH RUSSIA.

BUT YOU DON'T CARRY THAT INTO BUT YOU DON'T CARRY THAT INTO YOUR DECISION ON WHETHER YOU YOUR DECISION ON WHETHER YOU VOTE FOR MARY LAND DREW, SAY, VOTE FOR MARY LAND DREW, SAY, IN LOUISIANA OR NOT.

IN LOUISIANA OR NOT.

WHEN THOSE ISSUES DOMINATE IT'S WHEN THOSE ISSUES DOMINATE IT'S EASIER FOR DEMOCRATS RUNNING EASIER FOR DEMOCRATS RUNNING BACK HOME TO CARVE OUT THEIR BACK HOME TO CARVE OUT THEIR OWN PROFILE AND MAYBE NOT BE OWN PROFILE AND MAYBE NOT BE SAT LED WITH OBAMA'S PROBLEMS.

SAT LED WITH OBAMA'S PROBLEMS.

GWEN: I DON'T THINK THE POLL GWEN: I DON'T THINK THE POLL SHOWS YOU'RE NOT, BUT I'VE SHOWS YOU'RE NOT, BUT I'VE NOTICED THIS WEEK THE PRESIDENT NOTICED THIS WEEK THE PRESIDENT IS DOING THE PEN AND PHONE IS DOING THE PEN AND PHONE THING, COMING OUT WITH THING, COMING OUT WITH EXECUTIVE ORDERS ON LGBT EXECUTIVE ORDERS ON LGBT RIGHTS, EXECUTIVE ORDERS ON RIGHTS, EXECUTIVE ORDERS ON CREATING A NATIONAL MONUMENT IN CREATING A NATIONAL MONUMENT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PACIFIC THE MIDDLE OF THE PACIFIC OCEAN.

OCEAN.

ALONG THE WAY HE KEEPS MAKING ALONG THE WAY HE KEEPS MAKING THESE DECLARATIONS, WHICH SOUND THESE DECLARATIONS, WHICH SOUND VERY EXECUTIVE.

VERY EXECUTIVE.

AND I WONDER IF THAT SPEAKS TO AND I WONDER IF THAT SPEAKS TO THE NOTION THAT -- OF HIS THE NOTION THAT -- OF HIS PERCEIVED WEAKNESS.

PERCEIVED WEAKNESS.

>> RIGHT.

>> RIGHT.

HE HAS SOME POWERS AND HE'S HE HAS SOME POWERS AND HE'S TRIED TO USE THEM.

TRIED TO USE THEM.

I MEAN, IN FACT, HIS WHOLE I MEAN, IN FACT, HIS WHOLE CLIMATE CHANGE INITIATIVE WAS CLIMATE CHANGE INITIATIVE WAS REALLY MOSTLY EXECUTIVE ACTION REALLY MOSTLY EXECUTIVE ACTION BECAUSE CONGRESS HAS REFUSED TO BECAUSE CONGRESS HAS REFUSED TO ENACT ANY LAWS.

ENACT ANY LAWS.

>> >> GWEN: WELL, PLUS THE FACT THAT GWEN: WELL, PLUS THE FACT THAT PEOPLE LIKE CONGRESS LESS THAN PEOPLE LIKE CONGRESS LESS THAN THEY LIKE HIM.

THEY LIKE HIM.

>> YOU CAN'T THINK SOLO IN THE >> YOU CAN'T THINK SOLO IN THE PUBLIC ESTEEM THAT YOU'RE LOWER PUBLIC ESTEEM THAT YOU'RE LOWER THAN CONGRESS.

THAN CONGRESS.

>> THERE WAS SOME SENSE THAT >> THERE WAS SOME SENSE THAT EROSION IS COMING FROM PLACES EROSION IS COMING FROM PLACES WHERE HE'S ENJOYED STRONGER WHERE HE'S ENJOYED STRONGER SUPPORT BEFORE, RIGHT?

SUPPORT BEFORE, RIGHT?

>> YES.

>> YES.

WE ACTUALLY FOUND THAT SOME OF WE ACTUALLY FOUND THAT SOME OF HIS STRONGEST DEMOGRAPHIC HIS STRONGEST DEMOGRAPHIC GROUPS THAT SUPPORT WAS ERODING GROUPS THAT SUPPORT WAS ERODING THERE AS WELL.

THERE AS WELL.

IT'S NOT JUST THAT REPUBLICANS IT'S NOT JUST THAT REPUBLICANS HATE HIM MORE THAN EVER, IT'S HATE HIM MORE THAN EVER, IT'S JUST KIND OF ACROSS THE BOARD JUST KIND OF ACROSS THE BOARD THERE'S A SLIPPING SENSE THAT THERE'S A SLIPPING SENSE THAT HE'S IN CHARGE.

HE'S IN CHARGE.

IT'S ALSO DER IF IT'S ALSO DER IF BECAUSE IT'S THE END OF THE BECAUSE IT'S THE END OF THE SECOND TERM, THE LAST QUARTER SECOND TERM, THE LAST QUARTER OF HIS PRESIDENCY AND MAYBE OF HIS PRESIDENCY AND MAYBE THAT JUST HAPPENS.

THAT JUST HAPPENS.

>> SK, OF COURSE.

>> SK, OF COURSE.

IT'S A TOTAL COMMON THING AMONG IT'S A TOTAL COMMON THING AMONG SECOND-TERM PRESIDENTS.

SECOND-TERM PRESIDENTS.

GWEN: AS ALWAYS THERE'S A LOT GWEN: AS ALWAYS THERE'S A LOT WE DIDN'T GET TO THAT WE'LL WE DIDN'T GET TO THAT WE'LL COVER ON THE "WASHINGTON WEEK" COVER ON THE "WASHINGTON WEEK" WEBCAST EXTRA, INCLUDING A WEBCAST EXTRA, INCLUDING A PREVIEW OF PETER BAKER'S BOOK PREVIEW OF PETER BAKER'S BOOK REVIEW, OF HILLARY CLINTON'S REVIEW, OF HILLARY CLINTON'S HARD CHOICES.

HARD CHOICES.

THAT STREAMS LIVE AT 8:30 P.M. THAT STREAMS LIVE AT 8:30 P.M. EASTERN AND ALL WEEK LONG AT EASTERN AND ALL WEEK LONG AT PBS.ORG/WASHINGTONWEEK.

PBS.ORG/WASHINGTONWEEK.

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