GWEN: THE PRESIDENT STANDS HIS OWN GROUND ON THE GEORGE OWN GROUND ON THE GEORGE ZIMMERMAN VERDICT TONIGHT ON ZIMMERMAN VERDICT TONIGHT ON "WASHINGTON WEEK"."

"WASHINGTON WEEK"."

>> WE THE JURY FIND GEORGE >> WE THE JURY FIND GEORGE ZIMMERMAN NOT GUILTY.

ZIMMERMAN NOT GUILTY.

GWEN: ANOTHER CONTROVERSIAL GWEN: ANOTHER CONTROVERSIAL RACIAL CASE.

RACIAL CASE.

ANOTHER NATIONAL DEBATE.

ANOTHER NATIONAL DEBATE.

AS THE PRESIDENT WEIGHS IN THWI AS THE PRESIDENT WEIGHS IN THWI A LENGTHY PERSONAL WILLIAM A LENGTHY PERSONAL WILLIAM NATION.

NATION.

>> I JUST ASK PEOPLE TO CONSIDER >> I JUST ASK PEOPLE TO CONSIDER IF TRAVON MARTIN WAS HIS AGE AND IF TRAVON MARTIN WAS HIS AGE AND ARMED COULD HE HAVE STOOD HIS ARMED COULD HE HAVE STOOD HIS GROUND ON THAT SIDE WALK?

GROUND ON THAT SIDE WALK?

AND DO WE ACTUALLY THINK THAT HE AND DO WE ACTUALLY THINK THAT HE WOULD HAVE BEEN JUSTIFIED IN WOULD HAVE BEEN JUSTIFIED IN SHOOTING MR. ZIMMERMAN WHO WOULD SHOOTING MR. ZIMMERMAN WHO WOULD HAVE FOLLOWED HIM IN A CAR HAVE FOLLOWED HIM IN A CAR BECAUSE HE THOUGHT HE WAS BECAUSE HE THOUGHT HE WAS THREATENED?

THREATENED?

>> A REMARKABLE MOMENT IN A >> A REMARKABLE MOMENT IN A REMARKABLE WEEK.

REMARKABLE WEEK.

ANOTHER SHOW ANOTHER SHOW DAN: THAT FORCES SENATORS INTO DAN: THAT FORCES SENATORS INTO FACE-TO-FACE COMPROMISE.

FACE-TO-FACE COMPROMISE.

>> I'M PLEASED THAT THE SENATORS >> I'M PLEASED THAT THE SENATORS DECIDED NOT TO BREAK THE RULES DECIDED NOT TO BREAK THE RULES TO CHANGE THE RULES.

TO CHANGE THE RULES.

>> THIS MUST BE A NEW NORMAL, >> THIS MUST BE A NEW NORMAL, QUALIFIED EXECUTIVE NOMINEES QUALIFIED EXECUTIVE NOMINEES MUST NOT BE BLOCKED ON MUST NOT BE BLOCKED ON PROCEDURAL SUPER MAJORITY VOTES.

PROCEDURAL SUPER MAJORITY VOTES.

GWEN: AND ON THE POLITICAL GWEN: AND ON THE POLITICAL PLAYING FIELD ANOTHER INCUMBENT PLAYING FIELD ANOTHER INCUMBENT REPUBLICAN FACE AS CHALLENGE REPUBLICAN FACE AS CHALLENGE FROM THE RIGHT.

FROM THE RIGHT.

THIS TIME FROM A CHANEY.

THIS TIME FROM A CHANEY.

A MOTHER QUESTION NO A MOTHER QUESTION NO LONGER AFFORD TO GO ALONG TO GET LONGER AFFORD TO GO ALONG TO GET ALONG.

ALONG.

>> HOT DEBATES FOR A HOT WEEK.

>> HOT DEBATES FOR A HOT WEEK.

COVERING THAT WEEK PIERRE THOMAS COVERING THAT WEEK PIERRE THOMAS OF ABC NEWS.

OF ABC NEWS.

DAN BALLS OF "THE WASHINGTON DAN BALLS OF "THE WASHINGTON POST."

POST."

CHARLES BABBINGTON OF THE CHARLES BABBINGTON OF THE "ASSOCIATED PRESS."

"ASSOCIATED PRESS."

AND AMY WALTER "THE COOK AND AMY WALTER "THE COOK POLITICAL" REPORT."

POLITICAL" REPORT."

>> AWARD-WINNING REPORTING AND >> AWARD-WINNING REPORTING AND ANALYSIS, COVERING HISTORY AS IT ANALYSIS, COVERING HISTORY AS IT HAPPENS.

HAPPENS.

LIVE FROM OUR NATION'S CAPITAL, LIVE FROM OUR NATION'S CAPITAL, THIS IS IS "WASHINGTON WEEK" THIS IS IS "WASHINGTON WEEK" WITH GWEN IFILL.

ONCE AGAIN, LIVE FROM WASHINGTON, MODERATOR GWEN WASHINGTON, MODERATOR GWEN IFILL.

IFILL.

GWEN: GOOD EVENING.

GWEN: GOOD EVENING.

AMERICANS FROM COAST TO COAST AMERICANS FROM COAST TO COAST ARE STILL ENGAGED IN A ROLLING ARE STILL ENGAGED IN A ROLLING CONVERSATION ABOUT RACE, JUSTICE CONVERSATION ABOUT RACE, JUSTICE AND THE DEFINITION OF AND THE DEFINITION OF SELF-DEFENSE IN THE WAKE OF LAST SELF-DEFENSE IN THE WAKE OF LAST WEEK'S NOT GUILTY VERDICT FOR WEEK'S NOT GUILTY VERDICT FOR GEORGE ZIMMERMAN IN THE TRAVON GEORGE ZIMMERMAN IN THE TRAVON MARTIN CASE.

MARTIN CASE.

WE DISCOVERED THAT THE PRESIDENT WE DISCOVERED THAT THE PRESIDENT IS AS WELL.

IS AS WELL.

>> HE SURPRISED REPORTERS IN THE >> HE SURPRISED REPORTERS IN THE BRIEFING ROOM TODAY SHARING HIS BRIEFING ROOM TODAY SHARING HIS OWN EXPERIENCES AS A BLACK MAN IN AMERICA.

IN AMERICA.

>> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO >> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT THE RECOGNIZE THAT THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY IS AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY IS LOOKING THAT ISSUE THROUGH A SET LOOKING THAT ISSUE THROUGH A SET OF EXPERIENCES AND A HISTORY OF EXPERIENCES AND A HISTORY HAT -- THAT DOESN'T GO AWAY.

HAT -- THAT DOESN'T GO AWAY.

THERE ARE VERY FEW THERE ARE VERY FEW AFRICAN-AMERICAN MEN IN THIS AFRICAN-AMERICAN MEN IN THIS COUNTRY WHO HAVEN'T HAD THE COUNTRY WHO HAVEN'T HAD THE EXPERIENCE OF BEING FOLLOWED EXPERIENCE OF BEING FOLLOWED WHEN THEY WERE SHOPPING IN A WHEN THEY WERE SHOPPING IN A DEPARTMENT STORE, THAT INCLUDES DEPARTMENT STORE, THAT INCLUDES ME.

ME.

>> THE PRESIDENT REMARK'S >> THE PRESIDENT REMARK'S CONTINUED FOR 18 MINUTES.

CONTINUED FOR 18 MINUTES.

THEY FOLLOWED TWO SPEECHES THIS THEY FOLLOWED TWO SPEECHES THIS WEEK FROM ATTORNEY GENERAL ERIC WEEK FROM ATTORNEY GENERAL ERIC HOLDER WHO TALKED ABOUT SIMILAR HOLDER WHO TALKED ABOUT SIMILAR EXPERIENCES AND OF SPEAKING TO EXPERIENCES AND OF SPEAKING TO HIS SON ABOUT WHAT TO EXPECT.

HIS SON ABOUT WHAT TO EXPECT.

>> I AM DETERMINED TO DO >> I AM DETERMINED TO DO EVERYTHING IN MY POWER TO INSURE EVERYTHING IN MY POWER TO INSURE THAT THE KIND OF TALK I HAD WITH THAT THE KIND OF TALK I HAD WITH MY SON ISN'T THE ONLY MY SON ISN'T THE ONLY CONVERSATION THAT WE ENGAGE IN CONVERSATION THAT WE ENGAGE IN AS A RESULT OF THESE TRAGIC AS A RESULT OF THESE TRAGIC EVENTS.

EVENTS.

>> LEFT UNSAID, WHERE CAN AND >> LEFT UNSAID, WHERE CAN AND SHOULD SUCH CONVERSATIONS LEAD?

SHOULD SUCH CONVERSATIONS LEAD?

WHAT DO THE PRESIDENT AND WHAT DO THE PRESIDENT AND ATTORNEY GENERAL HAVE IN SNIND ATTORNEY GENERAL HAVE IN SNIND PIERRE?

PIERRE?

>> THERE'S AN ACT OF OPEN OF >> THERE'S AN ACT OF OPEN OF JUSTICE DEPARTMENT INVOLVING THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT INVOLVING THE F.B.I.

F.B.I.

NOW THE THRESHOLD IS VERY HIGH NOW THE THRESHOLD IS VERY HIGH IN TERMS OF WHETHER THEY CAN IN TERMS OF WHETHER THEY CAN ACTUALLY CHARGE GEORGE ACTUALLY CHARGE GEORGE ZIMMERMAN.

ZIMMERMAN.

THEY WOULD HAVE TO PROVE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO PROVE THAT ZIMMERMAN HAD RACIAL BIAS AS THE ZIMMERMAN HAD RACIAL BIAS AS THE PRIMARY MOTIVE FOR HIS ATTACK PRIMARY MOTIVE FOR HIS ATTACK FOR HIS ENGAGEMENT WITH TRAVON FOR HIS ENGAGEMENT WITH TRAVON MARTIN.

MARTIN.

THAT'S A REALLY HIGH THRESHOLD.

THAT'S A REALLY HIGH THRESHOLD.

IT'S BEYOND NEGLIGENCE.

IT'S BEYOND NEGLIGENCE.

YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT RACE WAS YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT RACE WAS THE PRIMARY MOTIVATING THE PRIMARY MOTIVATING FACTOMPLET MANY PEOPLE SEE IT AS FACTOMPLET MANY PEOPLE SEE IT AS A LONG SHOT FOR THE JUSTICE A LONG SHOT FOR THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.

DEPARTMENT.

BUT HAVING SAID THAT, WHEN THE BUT HAVING SAID THAT, WHEN THE F.B.I.

IS BORING INTO A CASE F.B.I.

IS BORING INTO A CASE THAT'S AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THAT'S AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT MATTER THAT EVEN WHEN A LOCAL MATTER THAT EVEN WHEN A LOCAL DEPARTMENT DOES ITS DEPARTMENT DOES ITS INVESTIGATION.

INVESTIGATION.

GWEN: THE PRESIDENT ACKNOWLEDGED GWEN: THE PRESIDENT ACKNOWLEDGED THERE'S NOT NECESSARILY THERE'S NOT NECESSARILY SOMETHING THAT THE FEDERAL SOMETHING THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN DO HERE.

GOVERNMENT CAN DO HERE.

BUT HE SEEMED TO BE SETTING US BUT HE SEEMED TO BE SETTING US UP FOR SOMETHING ELSE.

UP FOR SOMETHING ELSE.

>> THERE WAS A REMARKABLE MOMENT >> THERE WAS A REMARKABLE MOMENT IN THE BRIEFING ROOM.

IN THE BRIEFING ROOM.

THERE WAS NO ADVANCE WARNING THERE WAS NO ADVANCE WARNING THAT HE WAS GOING TO DO THIS.

THAT HE WAS GOING TO DO THIS.

I THOUGHT WAS WHAT WAS MOST I THOUGHT WAS WHAT WAS MOST INTERESTING ABOUT THIS THE INTERESTING ABOUT THIS THE DEGREE TO WHICH THIS WAS A DEGREE TO WHICH THIS WAS A PERSONAL COMMENTARY AND HIS PERSONAL COMMENTARY AND HIS REACTION AND THE WAY THAT HE SET REACTION AND THE WAY THAT HE SET IT IN THE CONTEXT OF THE BLACK IT IN THE CONTEXT OF THE BLACK EXPERIENCE IN AMERICA AND HOW EXPERIENCE IN AMERICA AND HOW AFRICAN-AMERICANS SEE THIS AFRICAN-AMERICANS SEE THIS VERDICT.

VERDICT.

I MEAN, THE COMMENT HE MADE WHEN I MEAN, THE COMMENT HE MADE WHEN HE SAID, WHEN THIS FIRST HE SAID, WHEN THIS FIRST HAPPENED, I SAID TRAVON MARTIN HAPPENED, I SAID TRAVON MARTIN COULD HAVE BEEN MY SON.

COULD HAVE BEEN MY SON.

TODAY HE SAID, TRAVON MARTIN TODAY HE SAID, TRAVON MARTIN COULD HAVE BEEN ME 35 YEARS AGO.

COULD HAVE BEEN ME 35 YEARS AGO.

AS THE CLIP SHOWED, HE TALKED AS THE CLIP SHOWED, HE TALKED ABOUT THE FEELING OF ABOUT THE FEELING OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN MEN IN A AFRICAN-AMERICAN MEN IN A DEPARTMENT STORE BEING FOLLOWED DEPARTMENT STORE BEING FOLLOWED OR WALKING ALONG A STREET AND OR WALKING ALONG A STREET AND HEARING CAR LOCKS SNAP SHUT WHEN HEARING CAR LOCKS SNAP SHUT WHEN THEY'RE AROUND.

THEY'RE AROUND.

I MEAN, EVERYTHING HE TALKED I MEAN, EVERYTHING HE TALKED ABOUT, HE SAID THE ABOUT, HE SAID THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY IS AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY IS NOT NAIVE ABOUT THE REALITIES OF NOT NAIVE ABOUT THE REALITIES OF CRIME THAT AFRICAN-AMERICAN MEN CRIME THAT AFRICAN-AMERICAN MEN ARE BOTH DISPROPORTIONATELY ARE BOTH DISPROPORTIONATELY VICTIMS AND PERPETRATORS.

VICTIMS AND PERPETRATORS.

I THINK WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO DO I THINK WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO DO WAS TO SAY, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO WAS TO SAY, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO THINK THIS VERDICT WAS THINK THIS VERDICT WAS LEGITIMATE, THERE IS ANOTHER LEGITIMATE, THERE IS ANOTHER PERSPECTIVE AND HERE IT IS WHY PERSPECTIVE AND HERE IT IS WHY IT IS THE WAY IT IS.

IT IS THE WAY IT IS.

>> HE FELT LIKE THE EXPLAINER IN >> HE FELT LIKE THE EXPLAINER IN CHIEF.

CHIEF.

A WEEK AFTER THIS VERDICT HAVING A WEEK AFTER THIS VERDICT HAVING COME DOWN AND ALL THE COME DOWN AND ALL THE CONVERSATIONS THAT HAD BEEN HELD CONVERSATIONS THAT HAD BEEN HELD ABOUT IT SINCE, WHY TODAY?

ABOUT IT SINCE, WHY TODAY?

WHY COME OUT NOW?

WHY COME OUT NOW?

WHY NOT JUST LEAVE ERIC HOLDER WHY NOT JUST LEAVE ERIC HOLDER TO CARRY THE WATER?

TO CARRY THE WATER?

>> WELL, THE PRESIDENT AND THE >> WELL, THE PRESIDENT AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ARE UNDER ATTORNEY GENERAL ARE UNDER EXTREME PRESSURE FROM THE CIVIL EXTREME PRESSURE FROM THE CIVIL IGHTS COMMUNITY.

IGHTS COMMUNITY.

NAACP HAD A PETITION THAT HAD NAACP HAD A PETITION THAT HAD MORE THAN ONE MILLION MORE THAN ONE MILLION SIGNATURES.

SIGNATURES.

EVERYWHERE YOU GO, PARTICULARLY EVERYWHERE YOU GO, PARTICULARLY IN THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN IN THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY PEOPLE ARE DISCUSSING COMMUNITY PEOPLE ARE DISCUSSING THIS ISSUE.

THIS ISSUE.

I THINK AGAIN THE PRESIDENT I THINK AGAIN THE PRESIDENT PROBABLY KNEW HE COULDN'T REMAIN PROBABLY KNEW HE COULDN'T REMAIN IN THE SHADOWS TOO LONG THAT HE IN THE SHADOWS TOO LONG THAT HE HAD TO COME OUT AND TALK ABOUT HAD TO COME OUT AND TALK ABOUT THIS ISSUE IN A FORTHRIGHT THIS ISSUE IN A FORTHRIGHT MANNER.

MANNER.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRUCK NE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRUCK NE TALKING TO PEOPLE, WE'VE TALKING TO PEOPLE, WE'VE INTERVIEWED A NUMBER OF PEOPLE INTERVIEWED A NUMBER OF PEOPLE ABOUT THIS STORY IS THAT TRAVON ABOUT THIS STORY IS THAT TRAVON MARTIN HAS BECOME THE SON OF MARTIN HAS BECOME THE SON OF MANY.

MANY.

R AFRICAN AMERICANS IN R AFRICAN AMERICANS IN PARTICULAR, THEIR FOCUSED ON THE PARTICULAR, THEIR FOCUSED ON THE MOMENT THAT GEORGE ZIMMERMAN MOMENT THAT GEORGE ZIMMERMAN FIRST NOTICES TRAVON MARTIN.

FIRST NOTICES TRAVON MARTIN.

IT'S BETWEEN 7:00 AND 8:00 P.M.

IT'S BETWEEN 7:00 AND 8:00 P.M.

IT'S NOT 2:00 A.M.

IN THE IT'S NOT 2:00 A.M.

IN THE MORNING.

MORNING.

IT'S NOT 4:00 A.M.

IN THE IT'S NOT 4:00 A.M.

IN THE MORNING.

MORNING.

AT THAT TIME THERE WAS NO REPORT AT THAT TIME THERE WAS NO REPORT OF ANY ROBBY OR ANY CRIME OF ANY ROBBY OR ANY CRIME WHATSOEVER.

WHATSOEVER.

SO FOR MANY AFRICAN AMERICANS IT SO FOR MANY AFRICAN AMERICANS IT BECOMES WELL, WHY DID THIS BECOMES WELL, WHY DID THIS ESCALATE IN THE FIRST PLACE?

ESCALATE IN THE FIRST PLACE?

WHY WAS HE TARGETED?

WHY WAS HE TARGETED?

WHY WAS HE A PERSON TO BE WHY WAS HE A PERSON TO BE SUSPECT?

SUSPECT?

GWEN: THAT WAS TRUE FOR THE GWEN: THAT WAS TRUE FOR THE PRESIDENT AS WELL.

PRESIDENT AS WELL.

>> YES, I THINK THIS IS >> YES, I THINK THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A TOPIC THAT HE HAS OBVIOUSLY A TOPIC THAT HE HAS THOUGHT LONG ABOUT.

THOUGHT LONG ABOUT.

I MEAN, HE WROTE A WHOLE BOOK I MEAN, HE WROTE A WHOLE BOOK ABOUT HIS OWN SEARCH FOR ABOUT HIS OWN SEARCH FOR IDENTITY AND HIS EMBRACE OF THE IDENTITY AND HIS EMBRACE OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

BLACK COMMUNITY.

HE'S BIRACIAL, OBVIOUSLY.

HE'S BIRACIAL, OBVIOUSLY.

IT'S CLEAR FROM SOME OF THE IT'S CLEAR FROM SOME OF THE THINGS HE SAID TODAY THAT HE AND THINGS HE SAID TODAY THAT HE AND THE FIRST LADY HAVE TALKED A LOT THE FIRST LADY HAVE TALKED A LOT ABOUT THIS AND PARTICULARLY THE ABOUT THIS AND PARTICULARLY THE ROLE OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN MEN AND ROLE OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN MEN AND WHAT CAN BE DONE TO MAKE LIFE WHAT CAN BE DONE TO MAKE LIFE BETTER FOR THEM.

BETTER FOR THEM.

GWEN: BOYS, AFRICAN-AMERICAN GWEN: BOYS, AFRICAN-AMERICAN BOYS.

BOYS.

>> YES, YOUNG MEN.

>> YES, YOUNG MEN.

YOU KNOW, WHAT -- IN TALKING OR YOU KNOW, WHAT -- IN TALKING OR E-MAILS WITH SOME WHITE HOUSE E-MAILS WITH SOME WHITE HOUSE OFFICIALS TODAY.

OFFICIALS TODAY.

WHAT THEY SAID WAS HE TOLD THEM WHAT THEY SAID WAS HE TOLD THEM THE OVAL OFFICE THE OVAL OFFICE THAT HE WANTED TO DO THIS.

THAT HE WANTED TO DO THIS.

HE DID NOT WANT TO GIVE A FORMAL HE DID NOT WANT TO GIVE A FORMAL SPEECH.

SPEECH.

HE DID NOT WANT TO GIVE A HE DID NOT WANT TO GIVE A SITDOWN INTERVIEW.

SITDOWN INTERVIEW.

HE WANTED TO DO WHAT HE DID HE WANTED TO DO WHAT HE DID TODAY.

TODAY.

TALK EXTEMPORANEOUSLY BUT TALK EXTEMPORANEOUSLY BUT CLEARLY FROM DEEP INSIDE HIM.

CLEARLY FROM DEEP INSIDE HIM.

>> WHAT MAKE THIS IS DIFFERENT >> WHAT MAKE THIS IS DIFFERENT FROM OTHER RACE DISCUSSIONS HE'S FROM OTHER RACE DISCUSSIONS HE'S HAD BOTH IN HIS BOOK AND THEN HAD BOTH IN HIS BOOK AND THEN THE FAMOUS ONE HE HAD WHILE HE THE FAMOUS ONE HE HAD WHILE HE WAS A CANDIDATE?

WAS A CANDIDATE?

>> I THINK THE BIGGEST >> I THINK THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE, AMY IS THAT THIS ONE DIFFERENCE, AMY IS THAT THIS ONE WAS VERY MUCH OR ALMOST WAS VERY MUCH OR ALMOST SINGULARLY FROM THE PERSPECTIVE SINGULARLY FROM THE PERSPECTIVE FROM AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN, AN FROM AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN, AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN THAT HAPPENS TO AFRICAN-AMERICAN THAT HAPPENS TO BE THE PRESIDENT OR A PRESIDENT BE THE PRESIDENT OR A PRESIDENT THAT HAPPENS TO BE AN THAT HAPPENS TO BE AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN.

AFRICAN-AMERICAN.

HE BASICALLY TRIED TO EXPLAIN TO HE BASICALLY TRIED TO EXPLAIN TO THE BLACK COMMUNITY WHY THERE IS THE BLACK COMMUNITY WHY THERE IS RESENTMENT IN THE BLACK RESENTMENT IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY -- COMMUNITY -- GWEN: I WAS THERE.

GWEN: I WAS THERE.

AND HE WAS TRYING TO THREAD THE AND HE WAS TRYING TO THREAD THE NEEDLE VERY POLITICALLY.

NEEDLE VERY POLITICALLY.

>> YES, TOTALLY.

>> YES, TOTALLY.

WE ALL REMEMBER HE STEPPED WE ALL REMEMBER HE STEPPED ELEGANTLY IN THE HENRY LEWIS ELEGANTLY IN THE HENRY LEWIS ATES' ARREST AND WAS FORCED TO ATES' ARREST AND WAS FORCED TO CONDUCT THIS WHICH WAS A STAGEY CONDUCT THIS WHICH WAS A STAGEY AND VERY INEFFECTIVE THING.

AND VERY INEFFECTIVE THING.

THIS WAS DIFFERENT.

THIS WAS DIFFERENT.

THE WAY HE SPOKE WAS SO MUCH THE WAY HE SPOKE WAS SO MUCH DIFFERENT THAT HE HAD ADOPTED -- DIFFERENT THAT HE HAD ADOPTED -- IT WAS I'M GOING TO TRY TO IT WAS I'M GOING TO TRY TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE DON'T EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS WHY THERE IS THE UNDERSTAND THIS WHY THERE IS THE UNREST AND THE DISSATISFACTION UNREST AND THE DISSATISFACTION AND THE GRIEVING IN THE BLACK AND THE GRIEVING IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

COMMUNITY.

HE NEVER MENTIONED GEORGE HE NEVER MENTIONED GEORGE ZIMMERMAN BY NAME.

ZIMMERMAN BY NAME.

NEVER MENTIONED GEORGE ZIMMERMAN NEVER MENTIONED GEORGE ZIMMERMAN BY NAME.

BY NAME.

>> HE SAID MR. ZIMMERMAN ONE >> HE SAID MR. ZIMMERMAN ONE TIME.

TIME.

GWEN: GO AHEAD.

GWEN: GO AHEAD.

>> PETER, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE >> PETER, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE HIGH THRESHOLD THAT THE FEDERAL HIGH THRESHOLD THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, THE F.B.I.

WOULD GOVERNMENT, THE F.B.I.

WOULD HAVE TO MEET TO BRING A CHARGE HAVE TO MEET TO BRING A CHARGE AGAINST ZIMMERMAN AFTER HE'S AGAINST ZIMMERMAN AFTER HE'S BEEN ACQUITTED IN THE STATE BEEN ACQUITTED IN THE STATE TRIAL.

TRIAL.

I THOUGHT THE PRESIDENT TODAY I THOUGHT THE PRESIDENT TODAY SORT OF TRIED TO DROP SOME HINTS SORT OF TRIED TO DROP SOME HINTS THAT THAT WOULD BE A VERY HIGH THAT THAT WOULD BE A VERY HIGH THRESHOLD.

THRESHOLD.

AND YET, TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT AND YET, TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE PRESSURE OF POLITICAL AND THE PRESSURE OF POLITICAL AND OTHERWISE THAT THEY'RE UNDER AND OTHERWISE THAT THEY'RE UNDER AND HOW DO THEY GET OUT OF THIS JAM?

HOW DO THEY GET OUT OF THIS JAM?

GWEN: HUNDREDS OF MARCHES AROUND GWEN: HUNDREDS OF MARCHES AROUND THE COUNTRY TOMORROW.

THE COUNTRY TOMORROW.

>> EXPECTATION.

>> EXPECTATION.

>> AT THE OWNED OF THE DAY, THE >> AT THE OWNED OF THE DAY, THE F.B.I.

IS GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK F.B.I.

IS GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT THE FACTS ARE.

AT WHAT THE FACTS ARE.

AND THEY HAVE TO LOOK AT IN AND THEY HAVE TO LOOK AT IN TERMS OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S TERMS OF GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S HISTORY WAS THERE ANYTHING ABOUT HISTORY WAS THERE ANYTHING ABOUT AFRICAN-AMERICANS THAT THEY CAN AFRICAN-AMERICANS THAT THEY CAN DRAW UPON THAT WOULD SHOW THAT DRAW UPON THAT WOULD SHOW THAT RACE WAS THE MOTIVATING FACTOR RACE WAS THE MOTIVATING FACTOR IN HIM, SINGLING OUT TRAVON IN HIM, SINGLING OUT TRAVON MARTIN.

MARTIN.

AND THEN DID HIS REACTIONS TO AND THEN DID HIS REACTIONS TO WHATEVER TRAVON MARTIN DID THERE WHATEVER TRAVON MARTIN DID THERE AFTER WERE THOSE COVERED BY RACE AFTER WERE THOSE COVERED BY RACE AS WELL?

AS WELL?

AGAIN, IT'S A VERY INTERESTING AGAIN, IT'S A VERY INTERESTING INVESTIGATION.

INVESTIGATION.

BUT I SHOULD SAY, THE HISTORY OF BUT I SHOULD SAY, THE HISTORY OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION IS THE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION IS THAT THEY WERE ASKED IN THE PAST THAT THEY WERE ASKED IN THE PAST TO TAKE ON CASES THE STATE TO TAKE ON CASES THE STATE WOULDN'T TAKE ON.

WOULDN'T TAKE ON.

AND YOU HAVE SOME VERY AND YOU HAVE SOME VERY THOUGHTFUL AND CREATIVE THOUGHTFUL AND CREATIVE PROSECUTORS THERE WHO WILL LOOK PROSECUTORS THERE WHO WILL LOOK AT THIS, KNOW THAT THE THRESHOLD AT THIS, KNOW THAT THE THRESHOLD IS HIGH.

IS HIGH.

BUT IT'S GOING GET SOME BUT IT'S GOING GET SOME INTELLECTUAL DEBATE WITHIN THE INTELLECTUAL DEBATE WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT GOING AGAIN, YOU DEPARTMENT GOING AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WHETHER THE NOTION OF KNOW, WHETHER THE NOTION OF PROFILING SOMEONE PERHAPS PROFILING SOMEONE PERHAPS BECAUSE OF RACE COULD THAT LEAD BECAUSE OF RACE COULD THAT LEAD TO FOR EXAMPLE, DID HE REACT TO FOR EXAMPLE, DID HE REACT MORE NEGATIVELY TO WHAT TRAVON MORE NEGATIVELY TO WHAT TRAVON MARTIN WOULD DO IN TERMS OF WHEN MARTIN WOULD DO IN TERMS OF WHEN HE APPROACHED.

HE APPROACHED.

DID HE FEEL MORE PRONE TO ACT DID HE FEEL MORE PRONE TO ACT MORE AGGRESSIVELY BECAUSE OF MORE AGGRESSIVELY BECAUSE OF THAT?

THAT?

IT'S A REALLY FASCINATING SET OF IT'S A REALLY FASCINATING SET OF QUESTIONS THAT THEY HAVE TO QUESTIONS THAT THEY HAVE TO RESOLVE.

RESOLVE.

GWEN: IT'S INTERESTING TO ME -- GWEN: IT'S INTERESTING TO ME -- BOUT THE 2008 BOUT THE 2008 SPEECH THAT THE PRESIDENT GAVE.

SPEECH THAT THE PRESIDENT GAVE.

I REMEMBER THE CLINTON I REMEMBER THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION WHEN HE CONVENED ADMINISTRATION WHEN HE CONVENED AS THE NATIONAL CONVERSATION, I AS THE NATIONAL CONVERSATION, I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER WHY AND IT DON'T EVEN REMEMBER WHY AND IT DIDN'T SEEM TO GO ANYWHERE.

DIDN'T SEEM TO GO ANYWHERE.

AND HE SEEMED TO POO POO THAT AND HE SEEMED TO POO POO THAT NOTION THAT WE HAVE TO CREATE NOTION THAT WE HAVE TO CREATE SOME FEDERALLY MANDATE SOME SORT SOME FEDERALLY MANDATE SOME SORT OF STRUCTURE TO HAVE THAT OF STRUCTURE TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION.

CONVERSATION.

>> I THOUGHT HE WAS INTERESTING >> I THOUGHT HE WAS INTERESTING ON THAT POINT.

ON THAT POINT.

WHEN BILL CLINTON DID THAT IN WHEN BILL CLINTON DID THAT IN 197, HE SET UP A COMMISSION.

197, HE SET UP A COMMISSION.

THEY ISSUED SOME REPORTS.

THEY ISSUED SOME REPORTS.

THEY GAVE A BIG SPEECH -- THEY GAVE A BIG SPEECH -- GWEN: WE PROBABLY STILL HAVE GWEN: WE PROBABLY STILL HAVE THAT REPORT SOMEWHERE -- THAT REPORT SOMEWHERE -- >> I THINK PRESIDENT OBAMA IS >> I THINK PRESIDENT OBAMA IS REALISTIC.

REALISTIC.

HE SAW WHAT HAPPENED.

HE SAW WHAT HAPPENED.

HE'S SEEN OTHER EFFORTS IN THIS.

HE'S SEEN OTHER EFFORTS IN THIS.

AND BASICALLY HE THINKS THESE AND BASICALLY HE THINKS THESE ARE STILTED CONVERSATIONS ARE STILTED CONVERSATIONS BECAUSE PEOPLE COME TO IT WITH BECAUSE PEOPLE COME TO IT WITH PRECONCEIVED POSITIONS AND WANT PRECONCEIVED POSITIONS AND WANT TO DEFEND THOSE POSITIONS RATHER TO DEFEND THOSE POSITIONS RATHER THAN HAVE A REAL CONVERSATION.

THAN HAVE A REAL CONVERSATION.

>> IT'S INTERESTING.

>> IT'S INTERESTING.

A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY WE STILL A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY WE STILL TIPTOE AROUND THE ISSUE OF RACE.

TIPTOE AROUND THE ISSUE OF RACE.

WHAT I HEARD THE PRESIDENT WHAT I HEARD THE PRESIDENT SAYING IS THAT IT'S TIME TO JUST SAYING IS THAT IT'S TIME TO JUST HAVE FRANK CONVERSATIONS WITH HAVE FRANK CONVERSATIONS WITH WHOM EVER.

WHOM EVER.

PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT HUES HAVING PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT HUES HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHAT THESE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHEN IF PIERRE DOES IT MEAN WHEN IF PIERRE THOMAS TAKES OFF HIS SUIT AND THOMAS TAKES OFF HIS SUIT AND WALKS IN A PAIR OF JEANS INTO A WALKS IN A PAIR OF JEANS INTO A WAL-MART THAT PERHAPS PEOPLE WAL-MART THAT PERHAPS PEOPLE MIGHT BE WONDERING WHAT I'M UP MIGHT BE WONDERING WHAT I'M UP TO.

TO.

>> WHAT DOES IT MEAN IF YOU TALK >> WHAT DOES IT MEAN IF YOU TALK TO YOUR YOUNG SON AS THE TO YOUR YOUNG SON AS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL DID?

ATTORNEY GENERAL DID?

>> I DID A RADIO STHOW MORNING.

>> I DID A RADIO STHOW MORNING.

AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN MALE CALLED AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN MALE CALLED IN AND SAID, I TAUGHT MY IN AND SAID, I TAUGHT MY CHILDREN THAT IF THEY'RE STALKED CHILDREN THAT IF THEY'RE STALKED OR FOLLOWED BAY STRANGER TO RUN.

OR FOLLOWED BAY STRANGER TO RUN.

BUT IF THEY CANNOT RUN TO FIGHT BUT IF THEY CANNOT RUN TO FIGHT FOR THEIR LIVES.

FOR THEIR LIVES.

HE SAID, WHAT AM I TO TEACH THEM HE SAID, WHAT AM I TO TEACH THEM NOW?

NOW?

GWEN: WELL, THE OTHER THING GWEN: WELL, THE OTHER THING SEEMS TO ME THAT THE PRESIDENT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE PRESIDENT DID STRIVE TO END ON AN UPBEAT DID STRIVE TO END ON AN UPBEAT NOTE AND HOW HIS OWN CHILDREN NOTE AND HOW HIS OWN CHILDREN LOOK AT THIS DIFFERENTLY.

LOOK AT THIS DIFFERENTLY.

OUR CHILDREN DON'T SEE IT THE OUR CHILDREN DON'T SEE IT THE WAY WE DID.

WAY WE DID.

THEY DON'T APPROACH IT THE WAY THEY DON'T APPROACH IT THE WAY WE DID.

WE DID.

BUT THERE'S THIS BALANCE THAT BUT THERE'S THIS BALANCE THAT EVERY FAMILY I KNOW IS TRYING TO EVERY FAMILY I KNOW IS TRYING TO STRIKE MAKING SURE YOU REMEMBER STRIKE MAKING SURE YOU REMEMBER YOUR HISTORY AND THEN KNOWING YOUR HISTORY AND THEN KNOWING HOW TO DEAL WITH THE REALITY OF HOW TO DEAL WITH THE REALITY OF THE PRESIDENT.

THE PRESIDENT.

>> I THINK ONE OF THE >> I THINK ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS IS OBVIOUSLY INTERESTING THINGS IS OBVIOUSLY THIS COUNTRY HAS MADE GREAT THIS COUNTRY HAS MADE GREAT PROGRESS ON RACIAL ISSUES.

PROGRESS ON RACIAL ISSUES.

WE TALKED ABOUT IT RECENTLY WITH WE TALKED ABOUT IT RECENTLY WITH THE CONTEXT IN THE VOTING RIGHTS THE CONTEXT IN THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT.

ACT.

IT'S NOT 1965 IN TERMS OF IT'S NOT 1965 IN TERMS OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS VOTING.

AFRICAN-AMERICANS VOTING.

EVERY GENERATION MAKES STRIVES, EVERY GENERATION MAKES STRIVES, AND YET THIS IS STILL THE MOST AND YET THIS IS STILL THE MOST DIFFICULT CONVERSATION WE HAVE DIFFICULT CONVERSATION WE HAVE IN AMERICA.

IN AMERICA.

GWEN: THANK YOU ALL FOR BRINGING GWEN: THANK YOU ALL FOR BRINGING THAT CONVERSATION HERE.

THAT CONVERSATION HERE.

NOW, ON TO CAPITOL HILL WHERE NOW, ON TO CAPITOL HILL WHERE YOU COULD BE FOR GIVEN FOR BEING YOU COULD BE FOR GIVEN FOR BEING CONFUSED.

CONFUSED.

AT LAWMAKERS WOULD LIKE AN AT LAWMAKERS WOULD LIKE AN OBSCURE PROCEDURE TO NUCLEAR OBSCURE PROCEDURE TO NUCLEAR WAR.

WAR.

THIS IS ABOUT POWER AND WHO GETS THIS IS ABOUT POWER AND WHO GETS TO WIELD IT THE EXECUTIVE OR THE TO WIELD IT THE EXECUTIVE OR THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH.

LEGISLATIVE BRANCH.

WHAT IN THE END WAS THE ANSWER?

WHAT IN THE END WAS THE ANSWER?

CHUCK?

CHUCK?

>> LOOKING AT THE ANSWER IN THAT >> LOOKING AT THE ANSWER IN THAT CONTEXT YOU WOULD SENIOR TO SAY CONTEXT YOU WOULD SENIOR TO SAY THAT THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH WON THAT THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH WON BECAUSE PRESIDENT OBAMA GOT THE BECAUSE PRESIDENT OBAMA GOT THE VARIOUS NOMINATIONS, LOOKS LIKE VARIOUS NOMINATIONS, LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE ALL GOING TO GO THROUGH.

THEY'RE ALL GOING TO GO THROUGH.

AND HE HAD TO GIVE NOTHING.

AND HE HAD TO GIVE NOTHING.

HE HAD TO SWAP A COUPLE OF HE HAD TO SWAP A COUPLE OF B. PLE FOR THE NL B. PLE FOR THE NL THIS IS A BATTLE BETWEEN THE THIS IS A BATTLE BETWEEN THE MINORITY PARTY WHICH HAS BEEN MINORITY PARTY WHICH HAS BEEN REPUBLICANS AND THE MAJORITY REPUBLICANS AND THE MAJORITY PARTY WHAT HAS BEEN DEMOCRATS PARTY WHAT HAS BEEN DEMOCRATS FOR SOME YEARS.

FOR SOME YEARS.

AND THIS WHOLE QUESTION WITH HOW AND THIS WHOLE QUESTION WITH HOW MUCH POWER SHOULD THE MINORITY MUCH POWER SHOULD THE MINORITY HAVE TO EXERCISE IT AND AT WHAT HAVE TO EXERCISE IT AND AT WHAT DEPOINT THEY GO TOO FAR IN DEPOINT THEY GO TOO FAR IN EXERCISING THEAS MINORITY POWER?

EXERCISING THEAS MINORITY POWER?

GWEN: IT'S FAIR TO ASSUME THAT GWEN: IT'S FAIR TO ASSUME THAT IF REPUBLICANS WERE IN THE IF REPUBLICANS WERE IN THE MAJORITY, THEY WOULD NOT FEEL MAJORITY, THEY WOULD NOT FEEL THE SAME WAY.

THE SAME WAY.

>> ACTUALLY THEY PROMISED OVER >> ACTUALLY THEY PROMISED OVER AND OVER THAT IF YOU THE AND OVER THAT IF YOU THE DEMOCRATS DO MAKE THIS RULE DEMOCRATS DO MAKE THIS RULE CHANGE, YOU WILL REGRET IT CHANGE, YOU WILL REGRET IT BECAUSE WE ABSOLUTELY WILL -- BECAUSE WE ABSOLUTELY WILL -- GWEN: PLAYING WITH THE RULE -- GWEN: PLAYING WITH THE RULE -- EXPLAIN WHAT THE RULE CHANGE.

EXPLAIN WHAT THE RULE CHANGE.

>> THE FILIBUSTER IS UNLIMITED >> THE FILIBUSTER IS UNLIMITED DEBATE.

DEBATE.

YOU CAN REQUIRE A 60 VOTE SUPER YOU CAN REQUIRE A 60 VOTE SUPER MAJORITY IN THE 100-MEMBER MAJORITY IN THE 100-MEMBER SENATE.

SENATE.

IN THE OLD DAYS IT WASN'T USE IN THE OLD DAYS IT WASN'T USE OFTEN.

OFTEN.

MORE AND MORE IT'S BEING USED MORE AND MORE IT'S BEING USED WITH ALMOST EVERYTHING.

WITH ALMOST EVERYTHING.

THIS ISSUE DEALT WITH EXECUTIVE THIS ISSUE DEALT WITH EXECUTIVE NOMINATIONS WITH THE PRESIDENT.

NOMINATIONS WITH THE PRESIDENT.

IT DID NOT DEAL WITH EXECUTIVE IT DID NOT DEAL WITH EXECUTIVE OR JUDICIAL NOMINATIONS ONLY OR JUDICIAL NOMINATIONS ONLY WITH CABINET MEMBERS AND THAT WITH CABINET MEMBERS AND THAT SORT OF THING.

SORT OF THING.

AND THE DEMOCRATS WERE FED UP AND THE DEMOCRATS WERE FED UP WITH THESE LONG DELAYS.

WITH THESE LONG DELAYS.

SO FINALLY HARRY REID SAID WE'RE SO FINALLY HARRY REID SAID WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE THE RULE.

GOING TO CHANGE THE RULE.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A SIMPLE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A SIMPLE VOTE WHICH HAD BEEN VERY VOTE WHICH HAD BEEN VERY CONTROVERSIAL ITSELF.

CONTROVERSIAL ITSELF.

AND WE'RE GOING TO SAY THAT YOU AND WE'RE GOING TO SAY THAT YOU CAN'T FILIBUSTER THESE EXECUTIVE CAN'T FILIBUSTER THESE EXECUTIVE NOMINATIONS.

NOMINATIONS.

THEY'LL HAVE A SIMPLE MAJORITY THEY'LL HAVE A SIMPLE MAJORITY UP OR DOWN VOTE.

UP OR DOWN VOTE.

THAT WAS THE RULE.

THAT WAS THE RULE.

THAT WAS THE THREAT THAT HE THAT WAS THE THREAT THAT HE MADE.

MADE.

>> SO HOW DID THEY COME UP WITH >> SO HOW DID THEY COME UP WITH THIS COMPROMISE?

THIS COMPROMISE?

AND DOES THIS MEAN -- THIS IS A AND DOES THIS MEAN -- THIS IS A WHOLE NEW ERA THAT THEY'RE GOING WHOLE NEW ERA THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE HOLDING HANDS AND SINGING TO BE HOLDING HANDS AND SINGING SONGS AND PASSING LEGISLATION SONGS AND PASSING LEGISLATION TOGETHER?

TOGETHER?

>> I WOULD NOT SAY THAT.

>> I WOULD NOT SAY THAT.

>> KUMBAYA.

>> KUMBAYA.

>> THEY REACHED THIS RESOLUTION >> THEY REACHED THIS RESOLUTION WHICH IS A VERY IMPERFECT WHICH IS A VERY IMPERFECT RESOLUTION LARGELY BECAUSE MANY RESOLUTION LARGELY BECAUSE MANY REPUBLICANS FELT THAT HARRY REID REPUBLICANS FELT THAT HARRY REID WAS NOT BLUFFING.

WAS NOT BLUFFING.

THAT HE WAS GOING MAKE THIS THAT HE WAS GOING MAKE THIS CHANGE THAT IT WOULD BE CHANGE THAT IT WOULD BE DETRIMENTAL TO THE SENATE AND DETRIMENTAL TO THE SENATE AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

THEY BROKE RANKS WITH MITCH THEY BROKE RANKS WITH MITCH MCCONNELL AND CUT THIS DEAL WITH MCCONNELL AND CUT THIS DEAL WITH THE DEMOCRATS.

THE DEMOCRATS.

BUT NEN, KEEP IN MIND THAT IT BUT NEN, KEEP IN MIND THAT IT DIDN'T PRETEND TO DEAL WITH DIDN'T PRETEND TO DEAL WITH LEGISLATION OR JUDICIAL NOMINEES LEGISLATION OR JUDICIAL NOMINEES AND ALSO IT REALLY DOESN'T AND ALSO IT REALLY DOESN'T RESOLVE FOR THE LONG RUN ONE RESOLVE FOR THE LONG RUN ONE DEMAND THAT MR. MCCONNELL HAD DEMAND THAT MR. MCCONNELL HAD MADE ON HARRY REID THAT I WANT MADE ON HARRY REID THAT I WANT YOU TO PROMISE THAT YOU WILL NOT YOU TO PROMISE THAT YOU WILL NOT EVEN TALK ABOUT MAKING THIS RULE EVEN TALK ABOUT MAKING THIS RULE CHANGE AND REID SAID, NO I'M NOT CHANGE AND REID SAID, NO I'M NOT GOING TO DO THAT.

GOING TO DO THAT.

>> WHAT IS THE RELATIONSHIP AT >> WHAT IS THE RELATIONSHIP AT THIS POINT BETWEEN HARRY REID THIS POINT BETWEEN HARRY REID AND MITCH MCCONNELL?

AND MITCH MCCONNELL?

THEY HAD SOME VERY HARSH WORDS THEY HAD SOME VERY HARSH WORDS BEFORE ONE ANOTHER BEFORE THE BEFORE ONE ANOTHER BEFORE THE COMPROMISE WAS REACHED?

COMPROMISE WAS REACHED?

WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE THAT?

WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE THAT?

>> IT'S NOT GOOD, DAN.

>> IT'S NOT GOOD, DAN.

THE TWO MEN I THINK GENERALLY THE TWO MEN I THINK GENERALLY LLVE GOTTEN ALONG FAIRLY WE LLVE GOTTEN ALONG FAIRLY WE WITH A MUTUAL RESPECT.

WITH A MUTUAL RESPECT.

THIS IS CLEARLY DAMAGED THAT THIS IS CLEARLY DAMAGED THAT RELATIONSHIP.

RELATIONSHIP.

IT'S NOT THE END OF THE RULE.

IT'S NOT THE END OF THE RULE.

THEY DON'T HAVE TO GET ALONG.

THEY DON'T HAVE TO GET ALONG.

BUT THE WAY THE SENATE WORKED IT BUT THE WAY THE SENATE WORKED IT CERTAINLY WOULD HELP SOMEWHAT.

CERTAINLY WOULD HELP SOMEWHAT.

YOU KNOW, THE BIGGER PROBLEM YOU KNOW, THE BIGGER PROBLEM MIGHT BE FOR THE REPUBLICANS IS MIGHT BE FOR THE REPUBLICANS IS THAT -- NOW YOU'VE GOT THIS THAT -- NOW YOU'VE GOT THIS UNREST WITHIN THEIR OWN RANKS UNREST WITHIN THEIR OWN RANKS AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A TESTY AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A TESTY MEETING ON WEDNESDAY NIGHT, A MEETING ON WEDNESDAY NIGHT, A PRIVATE MEETING IN WHICH MITCH PRIVATE MEETING IN WHICH MITCH MCCONNELL WAS TRYING TO DISTANCE MCCONNELL WAS TRYING TO DISTANCE HIMSELF FROM THIS DEAL AND SAID HIMSELF FROM THIS DEAL AND SAID I DIDN'T KNOW VERY MUCH ABOUT I DIDN'T KNOW VERY MUCH ABOUT IT.

IT.

ONE OF THE MEMBERS SAID IN -- ONE OF THE MEMBERS SAID IN -- WORDS WE CAN'T USE HERE SAYING WORDS WE CAN'T USE HERE SAYING THAT AIN'T SO.

THAT AIN'T SO.

[LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] >> ALTHOUGH SMALL SOME PROGSS RE >> ALTHOUGH SMALL SOME PROGSS RE IN TERMS OF BIPARTISAN, DOES IT IN TERMS OF BIPARTISAN, DOES IT PERTAIN ANYTHING INNER THE PERTAIN ANYTHING INNER THE HOUSE?

HOUSE?

>> PIERRE, IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE >> PIERRE, IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE THE WAY WE LOOK AT THINGS.

THE WAY WE LOOK AT THINGS.

THE HOUSE HAS RULES THAT JUST THE HOUSE HAS RULES THAT JUST LET THE MAJORITY PARTY GET LET THE MAJORITY PARTY GET THINGS DONE.

THINGS DONE.

BOOM, BOOM, BOOM.

BOOM, BOOM, BOOM.

AND THERE'S REALLY NOTHING THAT AND THERE'S REALLY NOTHING THAT THE MAJORITY PARTY CAN DO.

THE MAJORITY PARTY CAN DO.

THE SENATE IS THE COOLING SAUCER THE SENATE IS THE COOLING SAUCER AND IT TAKES TIME AND THINGS AND IT TAKES TIME AND THINGS REALLY BOG DOWN.

REALLY BOG DOWN.

WELL, THE HOUSE HAS ALL KINDS OF WELL, THE HOUSE HAS ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS AND IS LARGELY DEALING PROBLEMS AND IS LARGELY DEALING WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY AND AS WE'VE SEEN OVER AND OVER, AND AS WE'VE SEEN OVER AND OVER, THE FARM BILL AND THE DEBTS AN THE FARM BILL AND THE DEBTS AN ALL KINDS OF THINGS WHERE ALL KINDS OF THINGS WHERE SPEAKER BOEHNER HAS TROUBLE SPEAKER BOEHNER HAS TROUBLE GETTING A CONSENSUS WITHIN HIS GETTING A CONSENSUS WITHIN HIS OWN BODY.

OWN BODY.

ODDLY ENOUGH AS LITTLE AS THE ODDLY ENOUGH AS LITTLE AS THE SENATE DID IT ALMOST MAKES THEM SENATE DID IT ALMOST MAKES THEM LOOK LIKE THEY CAN DO MORE DONE LOOK LIKE THEY CAN DO MORE DONE IN THE HOUSE.

IN THE HOUSE.

GWEN: THE LAST TIME THEY DID WAS GWEN: THE LAST TIME THEY DID WAS TO IMPEACH BILL CLINTON.

TO IMPEACH BILL CLINTON.

IT'S A RARE THING.

IT'S A RARE THING.

NO CAMERAS ROLLING.

NO CAMERAS ROLLING.

NO MICROPHONES.

NO MICROPHONES.

FACE-TO-FACE 98 SENATORS JUST TO FACE-TO-FACE 98 SENATORS JUST TO GET TO THIS DEAL.

GET TO THIS DEAL.

>> THIS WAS MONDAY NIGHT.

>> THIS WAS MONDAY NIGHT.

THINGS HAD NOT GONE WELL THROUGH THINGS HAD NOT GONE WELL THROUGH THE WEEKEND.

THE WEEKEND.

98 OF THE 100 SHOWED UP.

98 OF THE 100 SHOWED UP.

I WAS STRUCK BY SEVERAL MEMBERS I WAS STRUCK BY SEVERAL MEMBERS OF BOTH PARTIES WHO SAID I OF BOTH PARTIES WHO SAID I REALLY LEARNED A LOT FROM THAT.

REALLY LEARNED A LOT FROM THAT.

IT'S REMARKABLE TO ME HOW MUCH IT'S REMARKABLE TO ME HOW MUCH THEY LIVE IN THESE SILOS BECAUSE THEY LIVE IN THESE SILOS BECAUSE THEY DON'T TALK TO EACH OTHER.

THEY DON'T TALK TO EACH OTHER.

GWEN: AMAZING MOMENT.

GWEN: AMAZING MOMENT.

NOW WURE WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON NOW WURE WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON TO MORE POLITICS BUT THIS TIME TO MORE POLITICS BUT THIS TIME I'VE GOT TWO WORDS, LIV CHANEY.

I'VE GOT TWO WORDS, LIV CHANEY.

LY NEVER UNNING BECAUSE LY NEVER UNNING BECAUSE COMPROMISE WHEN OUR FREEDOM IS COMPROMISE WHEN OUR FREEDOM IS AT STAKE.

AT STAKE.

GWEN: THE FOREMAN VICE GWEN: THE FOREMAN VICE PRESIDENT'S DAUGHTER HOPES TO BE PRESIDENT'S DAUGHTER HOPES TO BE THE GIANT KILLER WHO CAN TAKE ON THE GIANT KILLER WHO CAN TAKE ON A PREVIOUS WELL LIKED REPUBLICAN A PREVIOUS WELL LIKED REPUBLICAN THIS TIME MIKE ENZY, TAG HIM AS THIS TIME MIKE ENZY, TAG HIM AS A WASHINGTON ACCOMMODATIONIST A WASHINGTON ACCOMMODATIONIST AND WIN HIS SEAT.

AND WIN HIS SEAT.

IS THERE MORE TO IT THAN THAT?

IS THERE MORE TO IT THAN THAT?

>> OF COURSE.

>> OF COURSE.

THERE'S ALWAYS SOMETHING MORE TO THERE'S ALWAYS SOMETHING MORE TO IT.

IT.

BUT THIS THIS CASE I THINK MUCH BUT THIS THIS CASE I THINK MUCH OF IT IS ABOUT LIV CHANEY.

OF IT IS ABOUT LIV CHANEY.

IT'S MUCH MORE ABOUT HER THAN IT'S MUCH MORE ABOUT HER THAN ANYBODY ELSE.

ANYBODY ELSE.

GWEN: TELL US ABOUT HER.

GWEN: TELL US ABOUT HER.

>> FOR MANY OF YOU YOU'VE SEEN >> FOR MANY OF YOU YOU'VE SEEN HER, SHE'S VERY CLOSE TO HER HER, SHE'S VERY CLOSE TO HER FATHER.

FATHER.

MANY SEE HER AS HIS SORT OF MANY SEE HER AS HIS SORT OF POLITICAL APPENDAGE IN SOME POLITICAL APPENDAGE IN SOME WAYS.

WAYS.

SHE'S BEEN ON A LOT OF THE SHE'S BEEN ON A LOT OF THE NATIONAL TALK SHOWS.

NATIONAL TALK SHOWS.

SHE SERVED IN THE BUSH SHE SERVED IN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.

ADMINISTRATION.

SHE IS AS MUCH OF A HAWK AS HER SHE IS AS MUCH OF A HAWK AS HER FATHER.

FATHER.

YOU HEARD HER IN THAT CLIP THERE YOU HEARD HER IN THAT CLIP THERE TALKING ABOUT PATRIOTISM AND TALKING ABOUT PATRIOTISM AND FREEDOM.

FREEDOM.

SHE BELIEVES THAT UNLIKE WHAT SHE BELIEVES THAT UNLIKE WHAT CHUCK JUST NOTED ABOUT HOW IT'S CHUCK JUST NOTED ABOUT HOW IT'S IMPORTANT FOR FOLKS TO WORK IMPORTANT FOR FOLKS TO WORK TOGETHER IN THE SENATE THAT TOGETHER IN THE SENATE THAT THAT'S ACTUALLY NOT WHAT THAT'S ACTUALLY NOT WHAT WASHINGTON NEEDS MORE OF.

WASHINGTON NEEDS MORE OF.

IT NEEDS A LITTLE BIT MORE IT NEEDS A LITTLE BIT MORE AGGRESSIVENESS AND THAT MIKE AGGRESSIVENESS AND THAT MIKE ENSY WHO IS A FORMER SHOE STORE ENSY WHO IS A FORMER SHOE STORE OWNER, SENATOR IS NOT PROVIDING OWNER, SENATOR IS NOT PROVIDING THAT SORT OF LEADERSHIP.

THAT SORT OF LEADERSHIP.

LY SAY SHE'S PROBABLY ALSO LY SAY SHE'S PROBABLY ALSO INSPIRED BY OTHER YOUNG INSPIRED BY OTHER YOUNG REPUBLICANS.

REPUBLICANS.

SHE'S ONLY 46 WHO HAVE SHE'S ONLY 46 WHO HAVE CHALLENGED THE ESTABLISHMENT IN CHALLENGED THE ESTABLISHMENT IN ONE.

ONE.

MARCO RUBE RUBIO.

MARCO RUBE RUBIO.

MIKE LEE, TED CRUZ IN TEXAS.

MIKE LEE, TED CRUZ IN TEXAS.

WHY IS WYOMING SIGNIFICANT?

WHY IS WYOMING SIGNIFICANT?

>> HER FATHER IS FROM WYOMING.

>> HER FATHER IS FROM WYOMING.

SHE IS TRYING TO MAKE THE CASE SHE IS TRYING TO MAKE THE CASE THAT SHE IS NOT A CARPET BAGGER.

THAT SHE IS NOT A CARPET BAGGER.

THAT'S THE NUMBER ONE QUESTION THAT'S THE NUMBER ONE QUESTION SHE'S GETTING ASKED WHILE IN SHE'S GETTING ASKED WHILE IN WYOMING.

WYOMING.

SHE MOVED HER FAMILY NEAR SHE MOVED HER FAMILY NEAR JACKSON.

JACKSON.

SHE'S BEEN DOING ALL THE TOWN SHE'S BEEN DOING ALL THE TOWN HALLS AND ALL THE SORTS OF HALLS AND ALL THE SORTS OF THINGS AS A CANDIDATE.

THINGS AS A CANDIDATE.

SO SHE'S BEEN SHOWING UP SO SHE'S BEEN SHOWING UP EVERYWHERE.

EVERYWHERE.

BUT THE FIRST QUESTION SHE GETS BUT THE FIRST QUESTION SHE GETS ASKED WHY NOT VIRGINIA WHERE ASKED WHY NOT VIRGINIA WHERE YOU'VE BEEN LIVING FOR QUITE YOU'VE BEEN LIVING FOR QUITE SOME TIME?

SOME TIME?

YOU WENT TO COLLEGE IN COLORADO.

YOU WENT TO COLLEGE IN COLORADO.

YOU'VE LIVED IN WISCONSIN.

YOU'VE LIVED IN WISCONSIN.

YOU WERE HERE AS A KID BUT DOES YOU WERE HERE AS A KID BUT DOES THAT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO SAY THAT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO SAY S FOR THAT, ONE OF S FOR THAT, ONE OF SENATOR HILLARY CLINTON.

SENATOR HILLARY CLINTON.

VERY THIS THE CLASSIC TEA PARTY VERY THIS THE CLASSIC TEA PARTY VS.

ESTABLISHMENT CONTEST THE VS.

ESTABLISHMENT CONTEST THE WAY WE'VE SEEN OTHERS AND THE WAY WE'VE SEEN OTHERS AND THE FACT THAT A THROFT ESTABLISHMENT FACT THAT A THROFT ESTABLISHMENT HAS QUICKLY RALLIED AROUND HAS QUICKLY RALLIED AROUND SENATOR ENZY IS THAT GOOD OR BAD SENATOR ENZY IS THAT GOOD OR BAD FOR HIM?

FOR HIM?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

BECAUSE IN SOME WAYS THIS IS BECAUSE IN SOME WAYS THIS IS REALLY AS I SAID MUCH MORE ABOUT REALLY AS I SAID MUCH MORE ABOUT LIV CHANEY THE FACT THAT SHE LIV CHANEY THE FACT THAT SHE WANTS TO BE IN UNITED STATES WANTS TO BE IN UNITED STATES SENATE.

SENATE.

SHE'S TRYING TO MOVE HIM OUT OF SHE'S TRYING TO MOVE HIM OUT OF THE WAY RATHER THAN TRYING TO THE WAY RATHER THAN TRYING TO CHALLENGE THIS.

CHALLENGE THIS.

AND AT THE SAME TIME SHE REALLY AND AT THE SAME TIME SHE REALLY DOES BRING THAT SAME SORT OF DOES BRING THAT SAME SORT OF FOCUS THAT THOSE TEA PARTY FOCUS THAT THOSE TEA PARTY MEMBERS I MENTIONED EARLIER MEMBERS I MENTIONED EARLIER BROUGHT WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, BROUGHT WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, WHILE WE TALK ABOUT WE DON'T WHILE WE TALK ABOUT WE DON'T LIKE THE PARTISAN IN WASHINGTON LIKE THE PARTISAN IN WASHINGTON ANYMORE AN IT'S GOTTEN OUT OF ANYMORE AN IT'S GOTTEN OUT OF HAND, PRIMARY VOTERS LOVE HAND, PRIMARY VOTERS LOVE PARTISAN AND SHE IS GOING TO PARTISAN AND SHE IS GOING TO MAKE A -- UP HER STOCK-IN-TRADE.

MAKE A -- UP HER STOCK-IN-TRADE.

SHE'S GOING MAKE OBAMA THE ISSUE SHE'S GOING MAKE OBAMA THE ISSUE IN THIS.

IN THIS.

IT'S NOT THAT OBAMA IS IT'S NOT THAT OBAMA IS PARTICULARLY MODERATE.

PARTICULARLY MODERATE.

HE'S INCREDIBLY CONSERVATIVE.

HE'S INCREDIBLY CONSERVATIVE.

BUT NOT IN A WAY THAT THE TED BUT NOT IN A WAY THAT THE TED CRUZ, MARCO RUBIO, RAND PAUL IN CRUZ, MARCO RUBIO, RAND PAUL IN YOUR FACE -- YOUR FACE -- GWEN: HE'S BEEN KNOWN TO WORK GWEN: HE'S BEEN KNOWN TO WORK WITH A DEMOCRAT OR TWO.

WITH A DEMOCRAT OR TWO.

>> HOW MUCH DOES THIS HELP OR >> HOW MUCH DOES THIS HELP OR HURT HER IN WYOMING?

HURT HER IN WYOMING?

>> THERE'S A POLL OUT THAT SHOWS >> THERE'S A POLL OUT THAT SHOWS THAT DICK CHENEY HAS A GREAT THAT DICK CHENEY HAS A GREAT POLL IN THE 70'S.

POLL IN THE 70'S.

PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THAT MUCH PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT HER.

ABOUT HER.

SO IT STILL DOES CARRY SOME SO IT STILL DOES CARRY SOME WEIGHT.

WEIGHT.

HE HASN'T BEEN BACK THERE IN A HE HASN'T BEEN BACK THERE IN A LONG TIME OBVIOUSLY AS AN LONG TIME OBVIOUSLY AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL.

ELECTED OFFICIAL.

AND YOU KNOW, THE REAL QUESTION AND YOU KNOW, THE REAL QUESTION IS I THINK THIS GOES BACK TO IS I THINK THIS GOES BACK TO DAN'S POINT AS WELL AS WHAT DOES DAN'S POINT AS WELL AS WHAT DOES THE ESTABLISHMENT BELIEVE BOTH THE ESTABLISHMENT BELIEVE BOTH IN WASHINGTON AND WYOMING EVEN IN WASHINGTON AND WYOMING EVEN THE CONSERVATIVE ESTABLISHMENT?

THE CONSERVATIVE ESTABLISHMENT?

I'M NOT HEARING ANYTHING FROM I'M NOT HEARING ANYTHING FROM REPUBLICANS THAT I'M SPEAKING REPUBLICANS THAT I'M SPEAKING WITH NATIONALLY THAT THERE'S A WITH NATIONALLY THAT THERE'S A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF INTEREST IN TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF INTEREST IN KNOCKING OFF ENZY TO MAKE A -- KNOCKING OFF ENZY TO MAKE A -- AN EXAMPLE OF HIM IN THE WAY AN EXAMPLE OF HIM IN THE WAY THAT THEY DID WITH CHARLIE CRIST THAT THEY DID WITH CHARLIE CRIST AND BENNETT UTAH.

AND BENNETT UTAH.

GWEN: THE MAINSTREAM HAS OFTEN GWEN: THE MAINSTREAM HAS OFTEN BEEN ON THE WRONG SIDE -- BEEN ON THE WRONG SIDE -- >> MAINSTREAM HAS BEEN ON THE >> MAINSTREAM HAS BEEN ON THE WRONG SIDE.

WRONG SIDE.

BUT IN THIS CASE, IT LOOKS LIKE BUT IN THIS CASE, IT LOOKS LIKE I'M EVEN TALKING ABOUT WHAT WE I'M EVEN TALKING ABOUT WHAT WE CONSIDER THE MAIN STREAM TEA CONSIDER THE MAIN STREAM TEA PARTY.

PARTY.

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE RALLYING IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE RALLYING AROUND HER.

AROUND HER.

THERE'S NO OBVIOUS CON STITCH THERE'S NO OBVIOUS CON STITCH WENSY FOR HER RIGHT NOW.

WENSY FOR HER RIGHT NOW.

GWEN: EVEN IF THE REPUBLICANS GWEN: EVEN IF THE REPUBLICANS FIGHT FOR THIS TO THE DEATH, FIGHT FOR THIS TO THE DEATH, DEMOCRATS STILL HAVE -- DEMOCRATS STILL HAVE -- >> THIS IS STILL WYOMING.

>> THIS IS STILL WYOMING.

THEY HAVE HAD A DEMOCRATIC THEY HAVE HAD A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR IN WYOMING NOT THAT GOVERNOR IN WYOMING NOT THAT LONG AGO.

LONG AGO.

I THINK OBAMA GOT 26% OF THE I THINK OBAMA GOT 26% OF THE VOTE.

VOTE.

WORST STATE NEXT TO UTAH.

WORST STATE NEXT TO UTAH.

NOT THAT KIND OF FIGHT.

NOT THAT KIND OF FIGHT.

GWEN: THANK YOU, EVERYBODY.

GWEN: THANK YOU, EVERYBODY.

WE HAVE TO GO.

WE HAVE TO GO.

BUT BEFORE WE DO, A WORD FROM BUT BEFORE WE DO, A WORD FROM OUR FRIEND CHARLIE ROSE ABOUT OUR FRIEND CHARLIE ROSE ABOUT HIS NEW FRIDAY NIGHT BROADCAST.

HIS NEW FRIDAY NIGHT BROADCAST.

>> THANKS,N,ARLIE ROSE THE WEEK >> THANKS,N,ARLIE ROSE THE WEEK WE EXAMINE IN WORDS AND PICTURES WE EXAMINE IN WORDS AND PICTURES THE EVENT AND PEOPLE THAT SHAPE THE EVENT AND PEOPLE THAT SHAPE THE WEEK.

THE WEEK.

THE NEWS WILL BE PART OF THE THE NEWS WILL BE PART OF THE WEEKEND ON SUNDAY.

WEEKEND ON SUNDAY.

WE HOPE FOR CONTEXT INNER THE WE HOPE FOR CONTEXT INNER THE EVENTS THAT ARE PLANNED OR EVENTS THAT ARE PLANNED OR UNPLANNED IN THE FOLLOWING WEEK.

UNPLANNED IN THE FOLLOWING WEEK.

OUR SCOPE IS BROAD FROM POLITICS OUR SCOPE IS BROAD FROM POLITICS TO CULTURE.

TO CULTURE.

WE THOPE FIND WHAT MAKES PEOPLE WE THOPE FIND WHAT MAKES PEOPLE TICK.

TICK.

EN: "CHARLIE ROSE" PREMIERES EN: "CHARLIE ROSE" PREMIERES LATER TONIGHT.

LATER TONIGHT.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT OTHER RACES TO WE'LL TALK ABOUT OTHER RACES TO WATCH.

WATCH.

THAT STREAMS LIVE AT 8:30 P.M. THAT STREAMS LIVE AT 8:30 P.M. EAN EAN PBS.ORG/WASHINGTONWEEK.

PBS.ORG/WASHINGTONWEEK.

KEEP UP WITH DEVELOPMENTS WITH KEEP UP WITH DEVELOPMENTS WITH ME OVER ON THE PBS NEWS HOUR AND ME OVER ON THE PBS NEWS HOUR AND WE'LL SEE YOU RIGHT HERE NEXT WE'LL SEE YOU RIGHT HERE NEXT WEEK ON "WASHINGTON WEEK."

WEEK ON "WASHINGTON WEEK."

GOOD NIGHT.