- Ted, the debate over funding Providence public schools is intensifying.

This comes after a judge ruled in favor of the state, which controls the schools.

The judge essentially is saying that the city needs to spend more money on education.

We're talking about potentially a large sum of money.

- Yet, depending who you ask, Michelle, some people are saying $10 million, I've heard $55 million.

Mayor Smiley has suggested it could be as high as over $80 million.

Now, most people seem to think that some compromise would be on the lower end of that range, but even $10 million is quite a bit of money for Providence.

- And this ruling has really sparked a war of words between Providence mayor, Brett Smiley, and the city school superintendent, Javier Montañez.

Let's listen to what both men had to say.

- It is critical for taxpayers, residents, families, business owners, and every member of the Providence community to know that there are going to be real consequences as a result of this ruling.

And depending on the outcome of the final judgment that could come as early as tomorrow, we are gonna have no choice but to have harmful, harmful cuts and potentially new taxes.

- At no point was I or the district ever trying to bankrupt the city.

Never.

I am a resident of the city.

Why would I want that?

I wanna make sure that everyone is clear.

I'm gonna always advocate for my students.

Our students deserve this.

Our students are the reason why we do this work.

- Ted, some of this back and forth is complex.

The bottom line is that nobody is disputing that the city is funding the public schools below what is required by state law.

- Right.

State law appears to be clear that when a city is in a takeover, their school district, I should say, they have to reach a certain threshold of funding.

Providence has not done that.

One way to look at it is that Providence only allocates about 35% of its municipal tax revenue to the schools.

That is one of the lowest levels in the state.

- At the same time, though, Providence remains in a very difficult financial situation, and this certainly is not going to help that.

- Yes, that's the context people always have to keep in mind.

I mean, remember, Providence was a city on the brink of bankruptcy barely a decade ago, and even now, I looked at the statistics recently, Providence is spending almost two thirds of its municipal tax revenue just on debt and retiree benefits, so pensions and healthcare.

That means more than half the tax revenue is gone before they've begun to fund city services.

So still a challenging fiscal situation there.

- And the judge is holding off on making a final ruling in the hopes that both sides can reach a potential settlement.

So we'll see if that happens.

Let's turn now to fallout from the election at the State House.

There was recently a caucus among Rhode Island Senate Democrats where they were trying to oust senate president Dominic Ruggiero, that failed.

They were trying to replace him with majority leader Ryan Pearson.

The backdrop of course being Ruggiero's health.

He's been largely absent from public meetings.

Here's what both men had to say after that meeting.

- There are some concerns among senators.

Anything you wanna say about those concerns?

- They should be concerned, but I think everything's gonna be okay and we'll see what happens in the next couple months.

- I think what ultimately matters that senators care about is getting things done and being effective for the people of Rhode Island.

And that is what has to happen.

So I am hopeful for something different, but if that does not come, I do know that senators are gonna be looking to make a change in the future.

- And even though the dissenting senators failed to remove Ruggiero, that sort of criticism is rare on Smith Hill.

- Yes, I think it speaks to the frustration a lot of senators have about Ruggiero's situation.

As you said, Michelle, he's been sick most of the year.

We know he's battled cancer.

He's had other ailments, some related, some maybe ancillary to the cancer.

But the bottom line is it's kept him, he missed a lot of legislative sessions during the first half of the year.

He's remained absent frequently.

He couldn't campaign for himself in his reelection race.

He's missed a fundraiser, he's missed an award dinner he was supposed to have.

He just has not felt present to a lot of senators.

The other problem is for the senators, the ones who were frustrated, is that they felt it hampered them in end-of-session negotiations with the House that they didn't get their priorities advanced as much because they didn't have their leader there to do it.

I think Ruggiero had the benefit of the doubt from a lot of senators last spring, but I think now there's more concern, is this gonna continue into next year?

- There's concern, but not enough to change leadership at the State House?

- No.

Leadership usually wins these fights in my experience, but it is, I think, something to watch, a dynamic to watch when they reconvene in January.

- Thanks so much, Ted.

Appreciate it.

- Good to be here.