(theme music plays).

KERFOOT: Hi everyone, my name is Brittany Kerfoot, the deputy director of events at Politics and Prose and I'd like to welcome you all to "P&P Live".

It is my pleasure to introduce today's speakers.

First, Maya Rockeymoore Cummings is the former chair of the Maryland Democratic Party and wife of the late Congressman Elijah Cummings.

In "We're better Than This," Congressman Cummings details the formative moments in his life that prepared him to hold President Donald Trump accountable for his actions while in office.

His final words are a call to action for us all, to remain rooted in the politics of optimism and enact change in any way that we can.

Moderating tonight's conversation is April Ryan CNN political analyst, DC Bureau chief for American Urban Radio Networks, and author most recently of "Under Fire: Reporting from the Frontlines of the Trump White House".

So please welcome Maya and April to "P&P Live".

Hi ladies.

CUMMINGS: Thank you.

Hi.

RYAN: This book is powerful.

This moment is powerful, and we're going to speak to a man who addressed this moment and moments before and beyond.

I happened to call this man friend.

I knew him before he was a Congressman and I read this book.

You see my tabs.

It was a tough read because it was his voice.

It was him and we lost him about almost a year ago, but these words and the scenarios and things that have happened, we need to understand.

What this book does is take the veil off of Washington.

And with us today is Dr. Maya Rockeymoore Cummings, the widow of the late Congressman Elijah Cummings.

Hello, Dr. Rockeymoore Cummings, how are you?

CUMMINGS: Hi, April, it is a pleasure to be on with you today.

RYAN: It's a pleasure to be with you.

And, and, and let's just put it out on the table.

Um, transparency is a lot.

We know each other.

CUMMINGS: We know each other.

RYAN: Let's just say we know each other very well.

And I know this couple so well that I know that they had been working for years on a book.

Your husband was not only a politician who was powerful, but he was also an activist.

What would my friend, your late husband and the friend to all American global citizens say about this moment in time, we're sitting in?

CUMMINGS: It's the title of the book, that "We're Better Than This" and that we've got to do better and we've got to be better.

Uh, he would not be surprised by Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump's move, uh, with regards to the almost immediate replacement or the attempt to replace, uh, Justice Ginsburg.

Uh, he would not have been surprised at the hypocrisy because that has kind of become basically part and parcel of the Republican playbook.

Basically make the rules as you go along for partisan advantage.

Uh, and so, you know, Elijah would have been saying that we're better than this.

He would have been urging the people of America, as he says in the book that you've got to be the heroes here, Donald Trump is a corrupt leader and he has to be defeated.

And, and that is why Elijah, uh, part of the reason why Elijah wrote this book in the final years, he wanted to give his last warning to the American people about the kind of person that we have sitting in the White House and what we need to do to defeat him in this fall election.

He viewed this fall election as ground zero in the battle for the future of our democracy.

RYAN: I want to jump forward in the book because I want people to understand how much Elijah Cummings gave his life to this country and to democracy.

And, you know, you said that he was working to his very last breath.

Let's talk about his health concerns as he started declining because around impeachment that's when we knew things were getting worse.

Let's talk about that first, before we go into the book.

Can you tell us about, because you, you speak very candidly, it's very candid in the book about what his maladies were.

CUMMINGS: It was a several year process.

It wasn't, um, you know, like it just, all of a sudden happened.

Uh, and so, you know, Elijah is, first of all, you know, that his diagnosis of thymus cancer was over 25 years ago.

RYAN: Yes.

CUMMINGS: And that's amazing when you just consider everything that he's done with his time.

RYAN: And he would say, he would say to me, he said, you know, April, you just don't know this.

He said, I could have died years ago.

And that's, I believe where a lot of that spirituality came from.

CUMMINGS: Absolutely.

He was a man of faith.

He was a strong willed man.

He was determined, determined to use his time here on earth in an effective and efficient manner.

Uh, and, and, and he just, uh, you know, he wanted to do everything in his power, uh, to create change, positive change.

He always used to say, this is our watch.

And, and I have a responsibility.

He was a man of deep responsibility.

He took his job seriously.

Uh, and so, um, you know, about two and a half years before his death, he actually had, um, congestive heart failure.

What seemed like, uh, his, uh, you know, his, he was very short of breath.

His legs started swelling.

Uh, we went to the doctor, uh, and they said that basically he had a malfunctioning, uh, aortic heart valve.

Uh, and so we went to a physician over here at Johns Hopkins University, and it turns out, uh, that here is the world's leading expert.

Uh, and they scheduled Elijah for surgery.

Uh, Elijah went in, uh, and unfortunately what ended up happening was instead of the three day to four day uh hospital visit, it turned into a three month hospital stay where Elijah had complications from the surgery, actually not the surgery was successful, but complications related to his other health conditions.

And that period of time ended up taking his ability to walk.

But at that time he was in the hospital, he was getting rehabilitation help, and he was determined to regain his mobility.

And so he did regain his mobility, uh, and was able to walk out of that hospital, um, and, and get stronger.

However, by December of, uh, 2018, January of 2019, things shifted dramatically.

Uh, he got an infection as a result of, um, you know, he was susceptible, uh, because of the earlier surgery.

Uh, and the, uh, the, um, you know, the infection went to his knees, interestingly enough.

And so the doctors performed two surgeries on his knee cap, where they were trying to flush out the infection.

And unfortunately that took his mobility.

He was never able to walk again, uh, after, after those procedures.

Uh, and so in his ear, he could see that, you know, it depressed him, uh, that, you know, he was no longer, he had to walk with the assistance of a walker when he could.

Uh, and certainly he, um, got, um, um, a little, a motor scooter for the U.S. Capitol.

Uh, but then, you know, so we continued on that vein for a while.

Um, but then in the summer of 2019, uh, he started to decline.

He got pneumonia, uh, and still did by the way, a National Press Club appearance, uh, in the midst of his pneumonia, stint, left the hospital for a four hour pass.

And then we came back, uh, and then his kidneys failed and the cancer started spreading.

Uh, and so they went, we try to get them established on a dialysis, uh, uh, routine, uh, and it was only a short amount of time before they said that they couldn't, he couldn't do it in the regular way because they couldn't establish a fistula for him, which would have made dialysis easier.

So they admitted him to the hospital and he never came out again.

And so that is the time that everybody thinks of as the moment of decline, but it had been a series of, of, of events that happened with his health.

And when he went into that hospital for the final, I don't know, month and a half, two months, you know, it was just, it was just heart wrenching.

You know, he, um, yeah, he kept doing work, but you could tell that he, I think that he felt like his, his time was coming to an end and, you know, he would say that I'm tired, I'm tired.

Uh, and so, you know, with that, you know, the, the Elijah that we know, the fighting spirit, the man that was so strong, he fought off cancer for 25 years.

That internal spirit was dimming at the end.

And so it was, it was rough and it was hard for everyone, but, um, you know, Elijah was just a beautiful spirit.

And I'm just fortunate for the time that we had on this earth.

RYAN: Most definitely a beautiful fighting spirit.

And, you know, I remember talking to congressional leaders, he was on a Democratic call, um, with many of the Congressional leaders, you say his spirit was dimming, but he was still on a Congressional call.

The Friday before he passed... CUMMINGS: He was on conference calls.

He was, he spoke to Nancy Pelosi on several occasions.

RYAN: Working, working.

CUMMINGS: Working, working, working.

He signed subpoenas.

Uh, he talked, he discussed impeachment.

Uh, he was working, uh, and, and, you know, and that was despite the pain and he was medicated.

It was despite the medication and despite the pain.

RYAN: Understanding that the more that the democracy was at stake, the head of Government Oversight and Reform, understanding the, the weight of the duty that he carried.

He put the country in front of his own health and dimming spirit.

And once again, this is the book "We're Better Than This".

And I want to go to chapter one.

I mean, this book reads like moments that we remember and moments in the news that we remember, and his voice was so clear.

"I met with Donald Trump in good faith.

Then he lied to me.

It was one of hundreds then thousands of lies Donald Trump would tell.

Not only to me, but to the country and the world, but I didn't know the scale of it yet.

None of us did.

And if anyone had told us, we would have said, that's impossible.

He's the president of the United States."

That is powerful.

I remember that.

I remember that moment.

And this moment, this is the beginning, the first page of the book.

Um, I remember that moment.

This was January 20th, the inauguration day for Donald John Trump, you and Elijah Cummings were at the inauguration of the 45th president of the United States.

You made it to the luncheon, the annual luncheon after the, um, after the swearing in, taking the oath of office and Congressmen Cummings said that he had to get approval from then Congressman John Lewis, before he said he was going to go to the Inauguration.

What happens is, is that many Congressional leaders, um, may or may not go, but Democrats did not want to go to this one and many members of the Congressional Black Caucus but he didn't not to step on his friend, Congressman John Lewis's toes.

So I want you to take us to that day in this book about President Trump and Congressman Elijah Cummings, having this meeting or this conversation while the president was at the head table, talking about issues of what, medicine... CUMMINGS: Prescription drugs.

RYAN: Prescription drugs, affordable drugs.

Take us there.

CUMMINGS: Okay.

So first of all, Elijah respected John Lewis to life.

He considered him a friend and a mentor.

Uh, so when John Lewis was leading this boycott, you know, Elijah did not want to do anything to offend him.

Uh, we had been talking about whether or not we would attend for weeks, um, but out of respect, his deep respect for John Lewis, uh, he actually made a decision, uh, and he went to John Lewis and he asked for his permission to go, uh, and John Lewis said, yes, you know, certainly, you know, he said he understood.

Uh, and so we attended.

And so that's how we happened to be sitting behind Donald John Trump, as he made his infamous American carnage, uh, Inauguration speech.

Uh, and then afterwards, we went into the, uh, the Capitol for the luncheon.

We were seated with, uh, Trump's, uh, I think it was his cousins, his, uh, uh, his first cousins, uh, at a table with them.

It was weird because they look like they were weird weirded out.

(laughing).

RYAN: You mean like Mary Trump's?

Were they Mary Trump's... CUMMINGS: They were perfectly pleasant.

And, um, one of them knew Elijah and wanted to take a picture with him, I believe.

Um, and so we, uh, watched, you know, everything taking place, you know, Ivanka was walking around the room, holding court, uh, you know, the First Lady was sitting down, not mixing and mingling, but certainly, uh, welcoming everyone who came up to the head table to greet her.

Um, so we got, we made it through the speeches.

We ate a portion of our lunch.

And then Elijah said, come on Maya, it's time to go.

Let's go up there.

So we pushed back our chairs and we head to the head table and, um, DJT, uh, stands up.

RYAN: DJT.

Donald John Trump.

Okay.

CUMMINGS: With Vice President Pence by his side and Elijah introduces us.

Uh, and then, you know, and they make little small talk.

And then Elijah says, I would love to meet with you, Mr. President, I would love to meet with you because the drug companies are gouging the American people.

And people are dying because they cannot afford the cost of prescription drugs.

I think that we can work together to help the American people by lowering prescription drug costs.

And I want to talk to you about that, man.

And, and Donald was gracious.

He was just like absolutely.

He told Vice President Pence, you know, get on it.

Well, Vice President Pence got on it and set up a meeting.

Now, unfortunately, that first meeting and you can fill in here, April.

The first meeting didn't happen.

RYAN: That's right.

CUMMINGS: But it did happen the second time.

What happened with the first meeting?

RYAN: Oh, now you're asking me a question.

Okay.

So Maya, so you know, so after that, your husband was giddy about that because it was giddy about helping people not giddy about the nes, necessarily meeting with the president of the United States.

It was about helping people because Congressman Cummings said many people in his district cannot afford drugs, medicine.

So Congressman Cummings reached out to me, said, you know, um, I got a, I got a chance to meet with the President.

I'll let you know.

I said I said, really, and we were texting back and forth or talking, what have you about it.

And he was very eager to meet with the president about this issue.

So let's go, let's fast forward after the Inauguration, that was January 20th.

Let's go to the first White House press conference with this president of United States, famous or infamous, if you will.

Um, I got up and asked the president about, uh, the question about what is he going to do for the, for urban America, with his agenda and his urban agenda.

And, and I said, are you going to talk to the CBC?

You said, who?

I said, the Congressional Black Caucus, the Congressional Hispanic Caucus.

And then he brings up Congressman Elijah Cummings' name.

Now there was a gap in time between that moment, um, from the meeting and Inauguration and the press conference.

And you guys can Google this, trust me.

You you'll see everything in what we're saying.

And instead of just dealing with the issue, he went off on Congressman Elijah Cummings saying, well, he doesn't want the meeting anymore, I guess, cause he doesn't want to talk to me, but he reached out to me and it wasn't Congressman Elijah Cummings not wanting the meeting.

It was the fact that his staff was so new.

They didn't know how to put the meeting together.

So, go ahead, go ahead.

CUMMINGS: There was a scheduling conflict.

Yeah.

RYAN: Right.

So, so, well that's what the White House said, but what I'm told is they didn't know how to put the meeting together.

Um, because it was still so new and they were still trying to work it out.

So, um, so because I asked that question, it started the ball to rolling for them to meet and they finally met and the Congressman texted me and I said, well, but after your meeting, the president said that you said that he's the, he'll be the best president ever.

And he said, that's not how it went.

So go ahead, go ahead there, Doctor.

CUMMINGS: All right.

So this is his recounting of the meeting to me.

And there's a portion of his meeting that is not in the book, but I'll tell it because, you know, I can.

RYAN: I know, right?

But this book, it tells it gives you everything.

But yeah, we were filling in a lot of the lines, too, today, but go ahead, Doctor.

CUMMINGS: He talked, he talked with Dr. Redonda Miller, who was the president of Johns Hopkins Hospital, because she is an expert on how the high cost of prescription drugs was affecting hospitals' costs.

And you know, uh, Johns Hopkins is in Elijah's district or was in Elijah's district.

Uh, and he also took a colleague.

Um, but before they could get into the room, uh, Omarosa met them at the door.

RYAN: Okay.

CUMMINGS: And she tried to hustle her way into the meeting and Elijah said, that's okay, Omarosa.

We understand that you have more important things to do.

Uh, so we'll be okay with going into this meeting alone.

RYAN: And mind you, at that time she was the black minder.

She was in charge of anything and everything black, but this was not just a black issue.

It just happened to be a black Congressperson.

So go ahead.

CUMMINGS: So she hadn't been invited to the meeting, but she was trying to edge her way in.

And uh, and Elijah's like, no, you know, we're, we'll be okay.

RYAN: We good.

CUMMINGS: So anyway, he went into that meeting and uh, in that meeting, uh, he thought it went incredibly well.

Uh, Donald J. Trump was receptive.

Uh, they talked to deeply and about the issue, uh, they talked frankly about, you know, who they were as people or at least Elijah did.

Uh, and then afterwards he left thinking that it went pretty well.

That is until he saw the news coverage afterwards.

And in the news coverage afterwards, he found out that Donald Trump promptly went out to the media and lied about what he'd said.

Uh, and he lied and said that something to the effect of, um, Elijah Cummings said that I'll go down in history as the best president ever, which is not what Elijah said.

Elijah said that if you serve all the people, if you serve all the people, you may go down as the best president.

Um, and that is of course, Donald Trump, uh, went out and twisted his words in a way of course, that, uh, stroked his ego.

And then Elijah never heard from him again on the issue.

And then all of the investigation started rolling in everything from security clearances and Jared Kushner to emails, to, you know, you name it.

I mean, this stuff started rolling in like a tidal wave of, of, of probes.

It was just amazing.

And Elijah had gone in, he'd taken the measure of the man and he determined that this man was not just a wrong for the job, but he was a threat to the American people in our system of governance... RYAN: National security threat to national security threat, to democracy threat, to our very existence.

Um, that's what is been reported by many Democrats.

That's what your husband, your late husband fought against.

The threats from this administration.

That's what he held hearings for.

And just to, to add a little bit to this story, so when that happened, they were, they were, they were great in the meeting, but once he left the meeting and I heard that, I said, mm-mm, that's not the Elijah Cummings that I know.

So I picked up the phone, texted a man called him, and he gave me a statement saying exactly what you said.

So that right there started the friction between President Donald John Trump and Elijah Cummings, because you cannot go against the president's words.

So now let's go down the line.

Let's talk about some of these hearings and investigations that are in this book.

Let's go to Michael Cohen.

Um, and Michael Cohen, let me see that's page 93.

Um, this book is tabbed and we watched all of this unfold on television.

Page 93, "Raise your right hand.

Do you swear or affirm to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

The witness affirmed.

'I do'."

Take it from there.

CUMMINGS: So, and then Michael Cohen, uh, to Elijah's deep belief, then proceeded to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

RYAN: But Cohen, Cohen his truth telling before this, this confirmation or this hearing was not the best.

I mean, we always viewed him as a liar, as someone, the fixer in the ugly situations for this president.

So tell us about the truth that your husband believed that Michael Cohen told.

CUMMINGS: Michael Cohen came out with a statement saying, you know, the president is a liar, he's a racist he's, you know, he's this he's that he cheats on his taxes.

He does this, he does that.

He proceeded to admit to of course, uh, paying off the, uh, the Stormy Daniels, uh, uh, you know, what do you call it?

RYAN: Scandal, lying payment.

CUMMINGS: Being the go-between in terms of carrying the economic or financial weight of paying off the, uh, the president's mistress.

Uh, and, um, you know, he basically told it, he told it, uh, he told it all, uh, including, uh, giving the, uh, Oversight Committee, uh, some breadcrumbs in terms of how to go about further investigating Donald Trump, his taxes, uh, and certainly the Trump organization.

Uh, and, uh, AOC, uh, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, uh, Elijah mentions in the book because he was just that impressed with the questions she asked in that hearing, uh, where she basically, uh, you know, followed up on the breadcrumbs and, and, and used his answers, uh, to help the Oversight Committee get direction on what kinds of subpoenas and what kinds of requests they should send next.

Uh, and so, you know, and everybody remembers the end of that hearing, uh, where, you know, Elijah showed great empathy for this man, uh, this man who was about to go to prison, but who was a father and a husband who acknowledged and admitted he'd done the wrong things.

Uh, but you know, said that he was ready to actually pay for his, his crime and his part, uh, in the, uh, the corruption.

Uh, and so, you know, with that, Elijah comes out of the hearing, uh, and makes his infamous statements about, you know, when we're all dancing with the angels, you know, the question will be asked, uh, what did you do to preserve and protect our democracy?

And that's the question that we all now have to look in the mirror with this Fall election upon us, and answer in hope that in 100 years, that we've done the right thing, RYAN: You were his best friend.

What did he do to save the democracy?

In your opinion?

CUMMINGS: To me, Elijah was like a Dutch boy with his finger in the Dyke.

He was holding his finger in the dyke for as long as he could to prevent the water from overtaking the city.

And in this case, the water is the corruption, uh, from overtaking our country.

Uh, every investigation, uh, every, I mean, he pursued that man relentlessly on everything from, you know, the child separations at the borders, how they treated those families at the borders.

RYAN: And that's one issue that's unresolved.

CUMMINGS: It's still an issue, but I'll tell you what, when he was at the helm of that chairmanship, he had them squirming, he had them squirming.

Uh, he pursued, the President Trump's tax returns.

Uh, he, you know, he launched counter lawsuits, uh, against Donald Trump.

Uh, he pursued the Census, the, uh, the, uh, the question on citizenship in the Census.

I mean, Elijah a lot of the things that we are still actually, uh, that are still out, actually outstanding in the courts.

And some of the things that were used in the impeachment process were things that were generated by Elijah Cummings and his dogged pursuit of the truth and his dogged, uh, um, uh, efforts to ensure that this country had oversight.

RYAN: And because of that dogged effort that he had, you know, we saw a very emotional Nancy Pelosi, and I don't think it's just, I think there was a kindred spirit for them because they came from the same hood.

If I would say, Baltimore.

Baltimore, Maryland, Nancy Pelosi, you may say San Francisco, but her roots are deep in Baltimore soil.

Her father and brother were mayor of the city.

She saw politics from the grassroots raw level of Baltimore City.

And Elijah Cummings was the Congressman for West Baltimore.

You're home right now.

The beautiful home that you sit in is in West Baltimore.

And let me read this.

"In Congress, we miss his wisdom, his warm friendship, his great humanity in Baltimore.

We miss our champion.

God truly blessed the United States with the life and leadership of Elijah Cummings.

What a blessing that with this wonderful book, generations of Americans are living messengers to the future, will now be able to read his words and learn from his beautiful life."

What do you say to those words from Nancy Pelosi?

The House Speaker, the current House Speaker who has not only shattered the glass, but is cracking the marble ceiling open?

CUMMINGS: So Elijah considered Nancy Pelosi his mentor.

He had that much respect for her.

And let me just back up and say, Elijah's career, he owed to a woman, Lena, excuse me, I'm Juanita Jackson Mitchell.

Who he saw at 11 years old, when he participated in the integration march that she led, he saw that she was a lawyer and that she helped to actually desegregate this pool that he and his fellow friends went to.

And he then was determined to become a lawyer because of her.

After he graduated from law school, passing the bar on the first time, uh, you know, he decided that he was going to help other African American law students pass the bar.

And he was noticed by, uh, another woman named Lena King Lee, who was a state legislator.

And she decided that she wanted him to succeed her in the State House.

Uh, and certainly, you know, while a woman was not responsible necessarily for him coming to Congress, when he came to Congress, he and Nancy Pelosi immediately bonded.

Uh, you know, she knew him from Baltimore and he knew her and she looked out for him and he looked out and supported her.

Uh, and so they had a genuine relationship, a genuine friendship.

Elijah respected and admired her.

He considered her a master strategist.

And I don't think that, I mean, I think that it was just beautiful, the words that she shared about Elijah, uh, not just in that passage, but certainly at his funeral, uh, at the impeachment, uh, after the impeachment hearings, uh, she, you know, truly, uh, loved Elijah Cummings and she ended up writing the foreword for this book.

RYAN: And I just can't help but think about her words, our sweet Elijah, and she touches her heart.

She's become very emotional of late with the passing of these great pillars in Congress.

And I'm getting ready to try not to get upset because I'm going to read one more.

And I think these were great global citizens who, who understood power meant service.

And in the back of the book, you have late Congressman John Lewis.

And yeah, this is, this is tough.

Like I said, this was a tough book to read.

These two men are considered friend and both of them, believe it or not, are in the same book, "At Mama's Knee".

Dr. Maya Rockeymoore Cummings, They're both in "At Mama's Knee", and Elijah Cummings actually wrote the forward for one of my books as well.

So, um, this is, this is a heart connection here for me.

Now, from late Representative John Lewis.

"There was no great greater friend to the poor, to the lost, to the left out and to the left behind.

If you want to understand this great man, read his historic important book and learn the lessons and values from his moral voice, crying in the wilderness on behalf of our American democracy."

CUMMINGS: Yeah.

Isn't that powerful?

And he wrote that knowing he was about to die.

And so he, you know, just, uh, just, just tremendous, tremendous men.

Uh, you know, I worked for, uh, the House Ways and Means committee, uh, one of my first jobs on Capitol Hill.

And so of course John Lewis was on that committee.

So I got to know him too.

Uh, and they were just beautiful and decent kind human beings who cared, not a whit about personal gain.

This was truly about service.

It was truly about how they could use their lives to make a difference and to make life better for other people.

And so for Elijah, you know, he did that, um, I mean, for years, he would give you the shirt off his back.

I mean, he would give you his last 10 bucks.

If you asked for it, he was going to give it.

And Elijah was a deeply empathetic man who, um, you know, who really connected with his constituents and they loved him too.

RYAN: Deeply empathetic, deeply spiritual man.

I mean, you guys, what, what time was the church service?

You go to the 9:00 church service, right?

CUMMINGS: We, no, we go to the 7:15 service.

RYAN: 7:15, yeah, yeah, yeah, you go to church, praise the Lord.

And then the next thing he's out doing his business.

He, and it's so interesting.

One of his best friends is the pastor of the church that he attended.

Bishop, Walter Scott Thomas, who will, that was a tough one for him when he lost his friend Elijah Cummings.

CUMMINGS: Absolutely.

Yeah.

RYAN: And just to share some things, Elijah Cummings was so, he saw the spirit and everything.

I remember after you guys saw the "Lion King", he was like, "Listen to the music!"

I was like, okay.

CUMMINGS: He played that soundtrack from the "Lion King" over and over and over and over again.

Um, actually Laurence Fishburne, who ends up doing the audio voice for Elijah in the audio book, asked me, he asked me two questions.

He said, was Elijah left-handed or right-handed?

And then he asked me what his favorite songs were.

Uh, and, um, and so I sent one of the songs from the "Lion King" to him.

RYAN: It's the truth!

I mean, he was breaking it down.

He could make a sermon off of that song from the "Lion King".

CUMMINGS: Yeah!

RYAN: And after he taught, it's crazy, after he said that I had the soundtrack and I was like, yes, I was like, almost every song, "Shadowland", "He Lives In You", all of that.

CUMMINGS: He lives in you.

RYAN: He lives in me.

He watches over, everything you see.

Into the water, into the tree.

In your reflection, he lives in me.

This is what your husband did to me!

So... okay, so you see, you know, it's real, but not only that, you know, he, he was into the music of, and the spirituality of the "Lion King", but he also took, um, something that uh, a quote, a poem often quoted by Dr. Benjamin Mays.

Um, and let's go, "God's Minute".

I only have a minute 60 seconds in it forced upon me.

I did not choose it, but I know that I must use it.

Give account if I abuse it.

Suffer if I lose it.

Only a tiny little minute, but eternity, eternity is in it.

CUMMINGS: Elijah used that.

I think that that fueled his sense of urgency daily.

Elijah lived with a daily sense of urgency.

He believed that not one moment should be wasted.

Uh, and so, you know, a part of that was driven by the fact that, you know, he knew his own personal health challenges and that, you know, that every extra day was a day of grace from God.

Uh, but another part of it was got back to what I said with regards to his feeling of deep responsibility.

And I do want to mention this, the arc, just consider the arc of his life.

And also Ruth Bader Ginsburg, you know, uh, coming from a persecuted people.

Um, Elijah was born into a segregated Jim Crow south, where the American people, the American government, it turned its back on African Americans.

Uh, he went to separate and unequal schools.

He couldn't go into the neighborhood pools that white kids swam in.

Uh, he couldn't go into department stores in downtown Baltimore.

Uh, you know, his parents were laborers and domestics.

Uh, they were mis, you know, they were mistreated or they were disrespected on a daily basis.

Uh, and yet in his lifetime he saw what the civil rights movement did.

He saw how it transformed their lived experience.

He became a part of that movement in terms of his own career.

Uh, and then the course, then he rose to the pinnacle of success within the US Congress, uh, becoming the chairman of the House, uh, Government Oversight and Reform committee.

Uh, and one of the staunchest defenders of the very country that once had its back turned to him and his family and people who look like him.

Same with Ruth Bader Ginsburg, uh Bader Ginsburg.

Uh, and so with that, I just say that he believed that we're better than this because he saw transformation, the possibility of hope and progress in his lifetime.

He knew that it happened then, and that it can happen again.

But it's up to the American people to take us where we need to go.

And that is beyond Donald J. Trump and certainly toward a future that is diverse, equitable, and inclusive.

RYAN: "We Are Better Than This".

This is a lot, I mean, you think you're over something, but you're not.

I miss Elijah.

I miss Elijah Cummings so much and I miss his voice.

I miss the covering that he gave over the city that I call home, the city that I love, the city that I grew up in.

And I'm still frequenting.

And you, Dr. Maya Rockeymoore Cummings, you are in West Baltimore now, Donald John Trump, the president of the United States, the fight got even worse when he attacked Elijah Cummings' beloved city of Baltimore.

Take us to that summer when he, after Kim Klacik pointed out all the problems in West Baltimore without solutions and the president retweeted that video and Kim Klacik, for all who know, or if you don't know, she is currently running for Congressman Cumming's seat as a Republican.

CUMMINGS: So, you know....

I've uh, so where to start?

Um, you know that, uh, Congressman Cummings did everything that he could, uh, to improve his West Baltimore.

If we were driving down the street and he saw a pile of trash, he would immediately get on the phone with his team to ask them to have it removed immediately.

And I saw him do this on more than one occasion, uh, wherein he wasn't the mayor.

Uh, he wasn't a city council member.

Uh, he wasn't a part of, you know, any kind of state or local government when he was doing this.

He was a part of the federal government, but still viewed it as it is his responsibility.

That being said, uh, for us, the horror of that moment actually started hours before Donald Trump started tweeting.

It started early about 2:30 AM on the morning, uh, the early morning that Donald Trump started tweeting.

And we had for the first time in the history of my experience here in Baltimore, a quote, unquote break in.

I was, of course, remember, Elijah, by this time, couldn't get upstairs.

So he had a medical bed, uh, actually right here, uh, behind me.

Um, and so I was upstairs, uh, and all of a sudden I hear him yelling.

And so I rushed downstairs.

He says, someone's in the hallway, someone's in hallway.

I said, in the inner hallway?

Like, like inside of our house in there?

He said yes!

So I had the phone in my hands.

I rushed out into the hallway and I rushed to the vestibule area.

Um, and there was this man who was, had just put his, it looked like he had just put his bike back out on the, on the sidewalk and he was pulling the door shut.

I mean, how polite does a potential robber get when he's trying to pull the door shut to close it right, politely after him.

RYAN: So that was before the tweets from the president... CUMMINGS: It was before, it was just a few hours before the tweets.

What we did not do is that we did not immediately call the police that night.

We didn't call the police because Elijah didn't want to disturb the neighbors.

Uh, and so early the next morning, he contacts Harry Spikes and asked Harry to contact a detective.

RYAN: Harry Spikes, who was Harry Spikes?

CUMMINGS: The district director, um, and then to contact a detective who had been working with, his Congressional office.

Uh, and so Harry did that.

And then all of a sudden, the president starts tweeting about how bad Baltimore is and how terrible it is and the rats in the road and some of this and the crime, and then this and that.

Uh, and so in retrospect, we felt like it was all a setup.

Uh, we felt like, um, you know... RYAN: You think it was a coincidence, is that what you're saying?

CUMMINGS: We don't, we don't think it was a coincidence.

RYAN: So you think they were connected.

CUMMINGS: We think that they were connected.

The president was probably surprised that the narrative didn't go down like he thought it would, uh, Oh, the, the Congressman's house got broken into overnight, the crime, the terrible things, you know.

So that being said, um, Elijah felt deeply, um, you know, and badly about the president's attack.

Uh, he was very pained by it.

Uh, he felt like it took him back to, um, you know, the notion of people denigrating communities that were particularly of color, you know, Baltimore, 65% black, uh, and that, um, that Donald Trump consistently treated Baltimore as if it were not in the United States of America, as if it were outside of the body politic.

And as if the people of Baltimore city were undeserving of the protection of their citizenship.

And so that hurt Elijah to his core because he worked so hard to make sure that Baltimore and the state of Maryland, uh, were covered.

And it got, you know, he worked hard to try to get the resources that it needed and on the politics to try to align the politics, to make it easier to get the resources that the city needed.

So, it was devastating.

And when he saw Victor Blackwell, someone that he personally mentored through the Elijah Cummings Youth Program.

RYAN: CNN, CNN anchor.

Weekend anchor Victor Blackwell.

CUMMINGS: So when he saw Victor Blackwell gave, give his tear laden speech that morning about how... RYAN: It was hard for Victor to get it out.

He was, he was holding it in, he couldn't, he couldn't help it.

He let it go.

CUMMINGS: And Victor called it like it was, he said that the president consistently uses dehumanizing language and, and, and, uh, references to rodents and insects when discussing people of color and African-Americans especially.

And he said that, you know, that it was, and he talked about the pride of being from Baltimore and how hurtful it was for the president to treat an American city in this way.

It was hurtful for Victor.

It was hurtful for Elijah.

And I do think, I really do think, uh, that, that incident combined with, uh, some of the other stressors that he experienced as a result of his tangle, uh, with, uh, his fight, with ongoing fight with the Trump administration helped to hasten his death.

RYAN: Page 172, "Victor Blackwell's tears brought me to tears.

That is my city, that's Victor's city.

And that is our president".

Page 172.

Um, Baltimore's my city too.

Cause I erupted, I reached out to Victor.

I erupted.

We were in Detroit at that time for one of the Democratic Presidential Candidate debates.

And the nation was incensed because people were saying, I'm Baltimore.

Cleveland was saying I'm Baltimore LA was saying I'm Baltimore.

Atlanta was saying I'm Baltimore.

Every urban city was saying I'm Baltimore.

And if you are president of the United States, this was the issue.

Instead of pointing fingers do something about it.

CUMMINGS: Absolutely.

RYAN: And that's the issue.

Um, and I want to go to the last chapter of this book.

Um, this book is, is very honest.

This book is very real and it's it, it brings tears to your eyes, brings tears to your eyes.

If I can say it farewell to Elijah Cummings, I'm gonna let you tell us about the farewell.

This is, this is your chapter in the book.

Tell us about the farewell.

CUMMINGS: So I was very surprised.

First of all, I got to read the book, uh, on Christmas day.

So I felt like, especially when I got to the part that he wrote about me, I felt like it was God's Christmas gift to me, it was just beautiful to read.

And you're absolutely right.

Jim Dale, who is the collaborator on this book with Elijah, did a masterful job of interpreting Elijah's voice and bringing it to life on the pages of this book.

Um, but, uh, several months later, the publisher asked me to actually do the afterward, uh, the last chapter, uh, to talk about what happened in his final days and what happened since his death, I, and the publication of the book.

And so it was, it was my opportunity to share how when Elijah and I met, uh, certainly the, the, uh, the twists and turns with his health and the final couple of years of his life.

Uh, and certainly, uh, you know, what the final moments of his life were like.

Uh, and it was tough for me.

I wrote that, um, you know, early in 20, 2020, um, and I didn't revisit it until they asked me to read my afterward for the audio book.

Uh, and I broke down crying several times.

It was hard.

It was hard.

RYAN: Well, after talking to you, I'm going to tell you when I get quiet, I'm probably just gonna start crying because there is a great loss, um, with Congressman Cummings.

The morning that, and I'm just going to say this, and we're going to go to questions.

I'd been praying for Elijah.

We hadn't been communicating in, you know, I didn't realize the depths of it, but I gave the privacy that, you know, I knew that he deserved, um, without going into anything, ask anything.

But the morning that I saw it on CNN, they reached out to me and said, April, and I saw it and I just, I started screaming and I cried and I couldn't control it because we lost the champion for us.

They don't make a lot of people like this.

And I remember reaching out to you and you were so brave and so humble.

And you were like, thank you in the midst of your pain.

And you said he loved you too.

And I mean, this goes beyond being um, a source.

He was a friend who happened to be in a very high place who happened to have a cape, an invisible cape.

He was flying around the country and the world fighting for us.

KERFOOT: Who does this most urgently need to reach?

CUMMINGS: Everyone of voting age first because Elijah actually gives a call to action.

He viewed basically this election year as critical for the future of our democracy.

He believed firmly that if Donald Trump got another term, we wouldn't have a democracy any longer.

And so every one of voting age, he wants you to get out to mobilize everyone you know, everyone in your network.

Get them out to vote because Donald J. Trump and the Republicans are going to try to cheat.

And, and he knows that we're, we need to get everyone out to actually increase the margin, especially in those red states and swing states, uh, to increase the margin so that there's no possibility of an electoral college win.

And he viewed that he's asked, he was asking the American people to rise above partisanship.

This is not about partisanship.

He has showed you through his actions, that he was willing to rise above partisanship and reach out to try to work with the president.

It wasn't about partisanship.

It's literally about the future of our democracy and whether or not our children will have a fighting chance.

RYAN: And he called Mark Meadows, the Republican current chief of staff at the White House, his best friend, Republican and Democrat.

That was his best friend.

CUMMINGS: And Brittany, let me just say this.

A second audience is that he wanted young people to be inspired.

Elijah was born into segregation as a black child who was marginalized.

He was labeled special ed.

He was able to overcome like these incredible obstacles to rise, to become, to be Phi Beta Kappa graduate of Howard University, uh, to graduate from the University of Maryland law school to rise to the highest offices in the land.

Uh, and so he wanted kids to be inspired by his story, too.

KERFOOT: And I think they will be, I think they already are.

Um, and that leads to another great question.

Greg Wilhelm says, we miss our champion.

Others will rise in his spirit.

Big fall elections coming up, does Dr. Cummings see any standard bearers rising up to pick up the crusade championed by Elijah Cummings.

The next generation.

CUMMINGS: So let me just say that he wanted, he felt like the American people needed to be the, uh, the heroes in this story and this election cycle, uh, that it's gonna take the involvement and participation of all the people of America voting age to come out en mass and to make this story, uh, you know, the way it should be, uh, to have a good ending.

Um, but in terms of who he viewed as the next generation, I think that that was indicated by his, uh, selections on the House Oversight and Government Reform committee, uh, when the new Congress came in, uh, back in, uh, 2018, uh, he asked Nancy Pelosi for all the loud, uh, freshmen.

He wanted Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, uh, he wanted, uh, Rashida Tlaib.

Uh, he wanted, you know, some of the, uh, you know, the most aggressive freshmen that there were, and he didn't just put them on the committee.

He gave them an opportunity to shine.

He mentored them.

Um, he was not intimidated, uh, by, by youth.

Um, he actually felt like it was his responsibility to, to, um, applaud and support them.

KERFOOT: This is another question about the youth of America.

Francis asks what life message from, I think really any of you, including Maya, what you think Elijah would have said, uh, what message can we pass on to the youth of America right now?

RYAN: Vote.

KERFOOT: Yes.

CUMMINGS: I think that there's vote, but I also think this, that our country and its institutions are only as good as the people who occupy the offices of these institutions, meaning that our institutions are only as good as the people that, um, that sit in the key roles.

And that means that we need more good people in positions of power.

And that means that nobody has the luxury of being an armchair, uh citizen.

That we have to get out and we have to inspire and encourage people to actually run for office inspire and encourage good people, uh, to take these positions and do the right thing.

And not for your personal gain.

Not for your perception of power.

Not for your ego, Donald Trump, but actually for the country, for your state, for your community, for your school system.

Whatever level of government we need good people.

And so I think that that is a message.

That's a takeaway.

KERFOOT: Someone asks, can you speak about Representative Cummings' support of you, your career, your political aspiration.

Can you speak about your partnership as policymakers in fighting against oppression and the exploitation of people of color?

RYAN: Before Dr. Maya Rockeymoore Cummings speaks, I want to say something.

He used to brag on her so much.

He used to tell, say, oh, yes, you need to talk to her because she is, is this she's right number, this, this, and this issues of this.

He bragged on her so much.

So if I can give you anything, and I think I told you this right after his passing, but he bragged on you, and he loved you so much, and you would see them together, at church and see them together everywhere.

He loved her.

He not just loved her emotionally, but he loved her mind, he loved her work.

He loved her total being.

CUMMINGS: And I loved him.

It was just, I loved him to life, as he said.

Not to death, to life.

He was just a beautiful man.

And, and he sold himself to me as a feminist.

Well, when we first started dating, he told me that I reminded him of his mother who was tall in stature like me.

But he also said that, you know, you know, he grew up with a mother who was a preacher.

And so in a way, the father that supported his mother being a preacher.

Uh, and so he wasn't intimidated by strong women.

In fact, he gravitated towards them.

Uh, and so, uh, with that, you know, I, you know, I love my husband.

He supported me everything that I was doing with my organization he would come out for.

Um, you know, he talked me up to people like April and others.

Um, you know, he, you know, he was truly a partner.

Uh, and so we talked about the issues on a daily basis.

Uh, he would call me asking for advice and I would call him asking for advice.

Uh, one of the earliest memories that I have of our partnership wasn't even, we weren't even married.

Uh, but he was a chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus at the time.

I'm a graduate of Prairie View A&M university in Texas, which is a black, historically black college.

It's smack dab in the middle of a very red county.

Uh, and so they continuously have challenges with voter suppression.

So, um, when he became chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus, um, you know, there was an incident, uh, and this was during George W Bush's term, uh, where the, uh, basically the red leadership of the county that Prairie View is in tried to suppress the vote of the students.

Uh, I contacted him.

He appealed to the George W. Bush Justice Department to intercede and they did.

Uh, and so with that, you know, that was just part and parcel of a number.

Elijah got into the whole thing of, uh, you know, um, when Deamonte Driver, uh, died, he was a young man, uh, just 12 years old, I believe out of Maryland, uh, who, who did not have dental care.

Uh, and he had a tooth abscess, uh, and it became infected.

And the infection went to his brain.

I read the story in the "Washington Post", Elijah was sitting right beside me, and I'm just crying.

I was just, you gotta read this story.

This is just terrible.

Elijah took it up.

Personally, took it up.

Maryland went from last in the nation in terms of, uh, dental care, uh, for, um, for Medicaid recipients and for children who are Medicaid recipients to number one in the country because of his advocacy, he became a champion.

I mean, there are any number of issues that I can point to where we, um, where we partnered on the issues.

Uh, and certainly I won't take up your time talking about them all, but I'll tell you this.

We had a true partnership, and I truly love that man.

KERFOOT: I can't think of a better note to end on than that.

Um, and I'm so grateful to you ladies for coming because we are, who are going to carry on the legacies of Elijah Cummings, John Lewis, Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

Um, and I just, couldn't be more in awe of both of you and, and what you're doing for the country and how you're, Maya, how you're keeping his spirit and his memory alive.

It's really beautiful.

CUMMINGS: Thank you so much for hosting us.

KERFOOT: Thanks to everyone.

Please stay well, vote and stay well-read.

Thanks so much.

ANNOUNCER: Books by tonight's authors are available at Politics and Prose bookstore locations, or online at www.politics-prose.com.