>> A Supreme Court ruling this week leaves open the possibility that ICE agents can use ethnicity among other factors when making immigration sweeps, justices struck down a lower court order that it temporarily barred federal agents in Los Angeles from questioning people based solely on ethnicity and work status.

The ruling coincides with the Department of Homeland Security's announcement of Operation Midway Blitz, which is expected to ramp up ICE's presence in Chicago.

Joining us now to discuss how the ruling could impact ice operations in the city.

Our Kevin legal director for the American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois and Jessica Estrada, director of policy and Strategy Communities United Chicago based racial Justice organization that's worked to address racial profiling by the Chicago Police Department through litigation and community organizing.

Thanks you both for joining us.

so, Kevin, let's start with you, please.

What is your reaction to the Supreme Court's decision this week?

>> But that there's no doubt that this is disappointing ruling for a lot of not the least of which is that it's, you know, it's issued an issue of tremendous importance to that impacts millions of people and get it's done.

So it started sort of an emergency basis through the shadow docket in a way were the court didn't fully explain its reasoning.

That being said, you know, I want to avoid overstating the impact of this temporary ruling.

And it is just that a temporary it's not a ruling on the merits.

It's not a ruling that determines which side wins and which side loses.

It's a temporary ruling and it certainly does not make Roche racial profiling legal racial profiling remains illegal and unconstitutional.

Full stop even after this ruling this week, OK?

>> Just good to the folks that you work with here today have an understanding of what's going on with the court case.

What's happening in LA and impact that it could have on immigrants in this our communities there.

This has caused a trauma few year to go out.

our young people.

>> And our leaders there, they're some advocacy and mobilizing to teach it to educate others around and know your rights like what happens you get stopped by the police will happen.

Sieve federal agents stops you.

And so yeah, it the the young people in and and our leaders there, they're advocating and they're educating our communities.

>> So in his concurring statement with the decision, Justice Kavanaugh, he wrote the following, quote, to be clear, apparent ethnicity alone cannot furnish reasonable suspicion under this court's case law regarding immigration stopped.

However, it can be a relevant factor when considered along with other salient factors.

Some of those factors, accident or English ability was speaking ability place of work and location.

Kevin Arise.

Agents are the herb.

It our ICE agents, racial profiling when all of these other factors are taken into account along with ethnicity.

>> Well, unfortunately, as you saw from that, that, quote, It's not clear which combination of factors is enough in any individual instance that sort of a broad statement that ethnicity along with some group of other factors may in certain cases you'll be sufficient to constitute reasonable suspicion.

But in any individual case, if an individual is is stop based on their race alone as even justice Kavanaugh stated that, quote, that is illegal and unconstitutional, that person can still challenge that detention in court.

You know, lawyers throughout the city stand, you know, ready and willing to help them do that.

How difficult is that to prove I was racially profiled?

Well, you know, it's it depends on facts on the ground.

You know it.

It can be difficult to prove at times.

But where you have these indiscriminate roundups of large groups of people and citizens and noncitizens alike.

Where there's no apparent linkage between them other than the color of their skin.

It's oftentimes not as difficult to prove as it might sound.

And, you based on witness testimony, facts on the ground gathered by lawyers.

It can often be showing that in fact, race was the motivating factor in those cases.

Now that's top is is unconstitutional.

>> Jessica had have any what kind of fears are being expressed by community members?

Were you hearing have anyone has anyone expressed hesitancy to maybe go Suppose they are day laborers looking for work outside of the Home Depot.

What are you where a hearing is like parents are afraid to take their their children to school.

>> Students are afraid and can't focus in school because they're afraid that probably they might.

I see they're their parent when they come home from work, but also our community members that they're ready like there.

They have been mobilizing.

They informed the communities like if you see something recorded and reported, same as like a weight similar to what Kevin said, like we need to prove this like this is happening to our communities racial profiling that is happening and yeah, like That's we're hearing.

that what you're hearing?

>> Okay.

So Trump's border czar, Tom Homan, he spoke to reporters about the ruling on Monday and pushed back on the notion that ICE agents were randomly picking up individuals.

>> I trust the professionals, aborto highs all very well.

to make sure this that was reasonable suspicion.

To briefly detained question.

Somebody in the Supreme Court agreed.

>> Kevin, what's your reaction to home inns arguments that you know that ICE agents are researching individuals before Well, if you look at the underlying facts in the record and the best kuz Perdomo case out in Los Angeles.

>> You'll see that in many cases that's simply not the case.

I mean, there there citizens documented immigrants being swept up in these raids being slammed to the ground, slam to fences, pulled away from work for extended periods of time subjected to interrogations when they've done absolutely nothing wrong.

So there's really no question based on the sworn testimony in these cases.

That folks are getting swept up in these raids when they shouldn't And so to suggest that really need to sort of take ice is word for it, I think really belies the record in these cases.

>> Jessica, a lot of community organizations like yours on even the city has started sort of a know your rights campaign making sure that folks know their rights obviously know how to respond if they find themselves in a situation.

What are the rights that they need to know that they have?

>> Yeah, that's a if they get stopped by federal our police like to not run and like asked for an attorney like that.

We have a right to ask for attorney.

And yeah, like if if you're an outsider just like seen like ICE agents are police officers like yeah, just to recorded and 2 reported COVID he added if it's outside on the private.

Yeah.

Exactly.

And we need to show that in Chicago like we keep our families safe and that's what we have been Not only our organization.

There's like a lot of organizations.

A lot of neighbors are protecting each other.

they're making.

Mike Neu said they seemed like ICE agents and recording.

yeah, that's a Chicago.

It's the unity and how we take care of each other.

>> So in her dissent, Justice Sonia Sotomayor, she wrote, quote, We should not have to live in a country where the government can seize anyone who looks, Latinos speak Spanish and appears to work a low-wage job rather than stand idly by while our constitutional freedoms are lost.

I dissent, Kevin, this ruling was issued as part of the Supreme Court's emergency or shadow docket where they didn't really have to write anything.

But as as we discussed, Justice Kavanaugh wrote something in Justice.

Sotomayor wrote a response can you describe like a little bit about the shadow docket and why you think the Supreme Court is opting to use it in this case in may be so much they've been they've been using a lot more than previously.

>> Well, when most folks think about, you know, Supreme Court opinions, they think about final opinion.

So the opinions that are issued after full briefing well publicized argument before the court that are supported by lengthy opinion.

Oftentimes a lengthy dissent setting forth full reasoning of the court right?

The emergency, the so-called emergency docket on sometimes called called the shadow docket is it's these interim rulings on, you know, sort of interim steps in the middle of a case that have been issued with increasing frequency by this court little to no real reasoning behind them.

Just a simple ruling, one way or the other, often having tremendous impact on broad groups of people.

This being a perfect example and yet without really getting the kind of guidance that usually expect from the court to lower courts and lit against as to how to interpret why it's making the decisions that it is OK to be clear.

Like we said, this is a stay on a federal court, a lower court's injunction.

This is not the final say on whether or not >> eyes can detain individuals solely based on the factors that we discussed.

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