Connections with Evan Dawson
What can save moviegoing?
10/15/2025 | 52m 5sVideo has Closed Captions
Is cinema dying? Execs say yes. We explore its future and fall's must-see spooky screen picks.
Is the traditional cinema experience fading to black? Over half of U.S. film execs say theaters have less than 20 years left. COVID, streaming, and shifting habits have taken a toll. This hour, we explore what could revive theaters—and what spooky season films are worth catching on the big screen this fall.
Problems playing video? | Closed Captioning Feedback
Problems playing video? | Closed Captioning Feedback
Connections with Evan Dawson is a local public television program presented by WXXI
Connections with Evan Dawson
What can save moviegoing?
10/15/2025 | 52m 5sVideo has Closed Captions
Is the traditional cinema experience fading to black? Over half of U.S. film execs say theaters have less than 20 years left. COVID, streaming, and shifting habits have taken a toll. This hour, we explore what could revive theaters—and what spooky season films are worth catching on the big screen this fall.
Problems playing video? | Closed Captioning Feedback
How to Watch Connections with Evan Dawson
Connections with Evan Dawson is available to stream on pbs.org and the free PBS App, available on iPhone, Apple TV, Android TV, Android smartphones, Amazon Fire TV, Amazon Fire Tablet, Roku, Samsung Smart TV, and Vizio.
Providing Support for PBS.org
Learn Moreabout PBS online sponsorship>> From WXXI News.
This is Connections.
I'm Evan Dawson.
Our connection this hour is made at a drive in movie.
A full moon high in the sky.
A light summer breeze in the air, a huge movie screen, rows of cars parked out front.
When's the last time that you went to a drive in movie?
Could you even find a Drive-In near you anymore?
Where I grew up in Ohio, there is still one drive in.
It's open in the summer, only it feels like going back in time when I go by.
And in just a few short years, the way we think about drive ins could become the way we think about movie theaters.
Generally.
That is a plausible outcome according to people who work in the industry.
Variety recently reported the following quote more than 50% of executives polled in a new survey believe that the traditional cinema experience has less than 20 years remaining as a viable business model.
The poll, conducted by analyst and author Steven Fallows, surveyed 246 based, U.S.
based executives in the film industry to give their opinions on the theatrical landscapes recovery after COVID pandemic lockdowns, flexible release, windowing, and the future of the business amid Streaming's prominence.
When asked how long do you expect the traditional cinema experience to remain a viable business model, roughly 55% of executives stated that they believe it had less than 20 years, with some saying less than five, some saying 5 to 10.
End quote.
The things that seem like the normal infrastructure of society and culture can change more quickly than we realize.
When's the last time you used a phone booth?
How many people do you know with a landline phone?
If these executives are right, we are nearing the edge of a major change in not only what we do for entertainment, but how we gather socially.
And our guests are here to talk about that cheery subject for you.
Scott Pukos, director of communications for the Little Theater.
Although we're going to do our best, this is a home game for the little theater today, but it's a cultural institution and it's always fun to talk movies with you.
>> Yeah, thanks for having me.
>> Thanks for coming back here next to Scott is Jared Case, curator of film exhibitions at the Dryden Theater at the George Eastman Museum.
Welcome back to the program.
>> Thank you very much.
>> Across the table.
Welcome to Max Conway, a recent RIT grad, a journalist and content creator.
Hello.
Thanks for being here.
>> Thank you.
>> And Adam Lubartow is a programmer at the little and the Anomaly Film Festival.
Welcome back to you as well.
>> Thanks for having me.
>> I know after the pandemic, Scott, we talked about this because obviously the pandemic was devastating for theaters and there was a lot of talk about like, can you get people back in?
Well, now we're you know, we're five years out.
And so, you know, I look at some of the data on how theaters are doing post pandemic.
And so among other findings in that same poll, nearly 90% of U.S.
executives stated that their revenue has not recovered to pre-COVID levels.
81% also want an exclusive theatrical window on new releases lasting at least six weeks.
77% believe that day and date streaming releases have a negative impact on theatrical model.
What do you make of some of those numbers?
>> Yeah, I mean, things have definitely changed in that time.
And in the intro you were talking about the landlines and phone booths and it got me thinking.
It's like, yeah, those don't exist anymore.
But people still use the phone.
It just has changed the way they've done that.
>> So I think that point is so important.
I was thinking about exactly that, Scott, because people still use the phone, people will still watch movies.
As long as human beings exist.
People are going to watch movies.
Here's the difference.
I feel like if you wanted to save the phone booth or save the landline, you could get some enthusiasts and there's occasionally a phone booth here and there, but you're fighting uphill and it's not going to work.
The difference I see here is this is more of a cultural conversation.
We're going to watch movies.
We don't have to, but we're going to.
The question is, how do we do it together?
Do we do it in community?
And we can I think, make the choice to realize in advance what would happen if we really lost that.
That's what would be the difference between phone booths and theaters to me.
What do you think?
>> Yeah, I agree that with that.
And certainly we've had challenges in the five plus years since COVID.
but you always have to be flexible.
And we at the little try to be more proactive rather than reactive.
So we are trying to figure out these trends and try to figure out what will work.
And even in the study, it was talking about the traditional format of watching movies.
And a lot of what we do is not traditional at the little we we do things differently.
We have a different experience because I think it's been for a while where you've needed that to bring people in, and it's really been that it's been increased of that amount since COVID.
and certainly, yeah, it's been there's been some tough times and then there's been some big hits since in those five years too.
So it's, it's really all just flexible in a lot of ways.
>> So again, take my questions to Scott with a grain of salt here, knowing that this is a little home game.
But I wonder if you think that there is a plausible future to stay on this theme of, you know, this change that could be coming where a lot of movie theaters are gone, but the independents are not the independents like the little like the Dryden stay because of the cultural value, because of the way the communities see them vis a vis typical theaters.
Do you think that's possible?
>> Yeah.
I mean, both the Little and Dryden are historic spots where staples in Rochester.
So there is a difference as compared to a chain theater like we Rochester.
I've said it lots of times because it's it's true Rochester has the best movie fans.
They're smart, they're passionate, and they love the little, and they love the Dryden.
And I think that does help a lot, too, because they will do what it takes to help us survive.
And then and we certainly have to hold up our end of that bargain, too.
And offer things that you can't get anywhere else.
You can't get at home.
which, you know, at both the little and Dryden we've had to do longer than the pandemic.
We've had to do that for a while.
>> Jared, what do you make of some of the concern that executives are raising that movie theaters are going to be gone?
>> Well, is it okay if I'm the equivocal voice on this panel?
Yeah, because.
just be you, man.
There's a lot to parse just within the the headline of that article.
You know, what is traditional?
at one point in time there were more movie theaters, but less screens because every neighborhood had their own theater.
And I'd love that you brought up the drive in movie in your introduction, because before cars, that's what people did when they went to the movies.
They walked to the movies, their local neighborhood theater.
So over time, over the last 130 years of film the industry has gone through changes that we, the industry has tried to keep up with the advent of streaming ten years ago.
You know, we saw big drops in numbers ten years ago when people started staying home more.
But there is always an audience.
The theatrical experience will never die because the cinema is three things.
It is immediate.
You are making a date with cinema.
That's something you don't get at home.
You don't have the distractions.
If you're going to miss something, go out to take a call or go to the bathroom.
You're choosing to miss something, so you're making that date.
It's communal, meaning you're watching it with other people.
You're getting these little micro reactions that you're getting with the audiences around you, people you don't know.
And it's immersive.
So you've got that big screen, but you've also got that sound, especially with the newer films, with the 5.1 soundtrack, 7.1 that's surrounding you, and it's something that you can't get at home.
>> I think that's part of the point that if I remember correctly, back in maybe late 2020, 2021, Adam made on this program.
Like there are certain films that you would really not want to see for the first time at home that you want to see them in the theater.
You want to add to some of Jared's point there?
yeah.
>> I mean, I agree with everything Jared said.
And also to kind of your point, Evan, the difference between the independent theaters versus the, the the more chain multiplexes.
that was my first curiosity seeing the, the poll and that variety article of who the responders were to that because to me, it kind of smacked of leaning more heavier on the corporate side, like the AMC's.
Yeah.
And they are having a very different experience rebounding from the pandemic.
And I think despite, you know, having more monetary resources, they are having a more difficult time because the independents are more kind of integrated into their communities, and they're more of a community gathering space.
and that makes it easier to kind of pivot and to make sure that we're screening things that people want because they have that, you know, direct connection.
It's not you know, they're not the programing isn't a national decision that's kind of going down through the chain of command.
yeah.
If people tell us they want to see something on our screens, we are in a position to make that happen.
And as a result, we are.
Yeah, a community gathering space and groups can come in and festivals.
As a programmer of a festival, it's.
Yeah, it's I really haven't because anomaly has only we only had one year before the pandemic and we've had an increase in attendees every year.
And it's because people want to come out because they feel a sense of community, and we're showing things that they want to see, and they enjoy just being together as a group, experiencing these things in the dark together.
>> Stabby films like, not all.
>> Of them.
>> When is anomaly, by the way?
>> November 5th through ninth.
>> Okay.
It's coming up here.
Yes, we got some.
>> Very soon.
>> Right in the middle of stabby season in the fall here.
I know, I mean, I think Adam is making an important point.
I agree with Adam that when I read the piece on what the executives are saying, it did read as chain based to me.
And if you are a chain theater, I think it is a different calculation, but I still think it matters.
I mean, Jared's right.
It's hard to remember for some people, and I don't mean to date people like Max, but even for me to say nothing of you guys, I didn't grow up where there was a theater in every neighborhood.
I grew up there a lot more theaters.
But the notion of theaters being everywhere, it's really quaint and beautiful and sort of old timey.
It tells you how things change, but I don't want all theaters, with the exception of 1 or 2, to be gone, either.
I mean, I still feel like this is an important way that human beings gather.
And so Max Conway is here as not only a recent RIT grad, but someone who you don't have to speak for your whole generation, but you are the Gen Z on the panel, and I'm surprised how much Gen Z is going to the movies here.
So a YouGov poll finds that the biggest by cohort, by generation, the biggest moviegoing generation right now is Gen Z.
90% of Gen Z attend theaters with some frequency.
It's the most frequent moviegoing group right now, driven by a desire for shared experiences and a night out that cannot be replicated at home.
Does that match with your experience?
>> to to a degree, I mean, I'm definitely surprised by the statistic, especially post-Covid.
I think pre-COVID, I would definitely, wholeheartedly agree with that statement.
I think, you know, social events and after Friday school, going to a movie and seeing it with friends is you just you just can't beat it.
now, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm a little surprised.
I think the social aspect is definitely big.
with everything going on, streaming services now, if I don't really want to see a movie, I'm going to wait for it to come out on streaming, and I'm not going to go to a theater unless I can get a group of people to all decide on a date and, you know, decide on a time.
like, can't miss it.
You'll watch a lot of other stuff if you're kind of on the fence about it, but you'll watch it at home.
That's fair.
That's painful for theaters, probably to hear.
But again, so, I mean, I think the data is hard to parse on this one.
I think a lot of people who are the executives saying, we're in trouble, look at your generation and say, your generation is going to kill us because you want to watch everything at home, even though the data indicates that you got a lot of theater goers.
Are you a movie theater goer yourself?
>> Yes.
more so.
Before COVID, I had the Regal Unlimited pass I was making making good use of that would see 1 to 2 movies a week.
COVID hit just makes you feel less wanting to go out, you know, after after COVID ended and my I let my regal pass lapse and I didn't renew it.
especially with the Regal around here by writ closing.
That didn't help the case as well.
And I kind of just somewhat fell out of love with with the theater experience.
but again, if something big comes out, I'll be there.
I just saw one battle after another.
I thought it was very good.
that was a priority to see in theater.
>> Okay.
by the way, what is a regal pass?
That's just.
>> For.
>> Regal Cinemas?
>> It was.
I think it was $25 a month, and it was unlimited movies at your local theater.
And I think you could, if you were out of the area, you could go to different ones as well.
But it was it was a great deal.
I mean, to go to a regal AMC, whatever the chain.
I mean, nowadays you're paying at least 15 to $20 per ticket.
and then food on top of that.
So for $25, $30, it was it was a really great deal.
>> Well, I don't worry.
I still think that there's membership available at Little Theater and Dryden.
Probably go, but how much is a movie theater ticket these days?
But you said 15 to 20 bucks.
>> I, I.
>> I cannot remember the last non little I could be honest, the last time I went to a non little theater, I don't remember I'd have to really think about that.
>> Yeah.
They have some discounts but yeah, AMC, Regal, those chains I expect to spend 15 to $20 depending on the time of day.
>> Okay, I might glass onion might have been it.
Yep.
Glass onion is probably that's which is probably a few years ago now.
Guys.
Something like that.
>> Yeah.
For years three years.
3 or 4 years.
Yeah.
3 or 4 years.
>> I'm at the age where I'm like, what was that like last year?
And people are like, it was 2014.
>> No, I think it was the last few years.
>> and I bet you I paid like 12 bucks a ticket.
Maybe.
So 15 to 20.
What's it cost to go to the little.
>> Theater for evening?
It's $12.
matinee is ten.
>> Okay.
>> The Dryden, $12.
>> Unless you're a member.
Then it's $9.
>> I see memberships available.
I, I think, you know, Max makes some important points to, though, that the options now make it such that if you are on the fence about a film, you don't have to go to the theater.
If you're not really dying to see it.
But maybe if you were like, yeah, I don't have anything to do on this Saturday night, I guess let's try X or Y. There was a movie I watched recently called The Little Hours, which I thought was new, and it came out like eight.
years ago.
There you go.
So I was like, oh, here's a new movie with Aubrey Plaza.
It's from 2017.
I had never heard of it.
interesting reviews, you know, it was okay.
It was.
I thought it was fine.
I don't know that I would have gone to a theater.
I'm kind of in Max's camp, but is that mindset killing us, Scott?
Like.
I mean, are you worried about that mindset?
>> Well, the little hours did play at the little.
>> Okay.
See, and I literally was working in the organization I, I missed it, man.
>> And it makes a difference.
Especially watching a comedy watching I know both Adam and Jared were talking about the communal experience, especially with the comedy.
And you have that laughter really can be contagious, like you're infectious, like you hear other people laughing, giggling, having a good time.
So yeah, you never like to hear the the opposite mindset of that too.
But I think we know at the little and Dryden that there are people with a different mindset to who who love that theatrical experience.
You really can't get it anywhere else.
And, and some of these movies we're talking about, oh, you can wait and watch them at home.
But sometimes not every movie is readily available at home.
Even so, like, the best option is to watch it at usually an independent theater like the little or or Dryden.
>> And movies are constantly coming and going from streaming.
I don't know how many times I've been like, I'm at home and I want to watch this movie.
Yeah.
And then I check a streaming service and I'm like, oh, it used to be here.
Where is it?
Now?
I have to do some digging to find it.
>> Or it's on a service that I don't use.
And I'm like, what?
Yeah.
You know, so that actually that frustration may help theaters.
I don't know no.
I very much relate to that one.
Although how many streaming services do you belong to there, sir?
>> Oh, I don't know if I want to talk about that.
>> Too many.
>> Patrick writes in to say, drive, drive into a movie theater.
These days, that would mean a subcompact SUV driving directly into a Regal theater.
No, that didn't mean a drive in theater, like, caused an accident.
When's the last time you were at a drive in theater?
Jared.
>> Well, it's been a few years, but there's still some in the area.
Are there some?
Yeah.
Silver Lake and the vintage.
you go out further west.
There's the transit.
So they're they're out there.
>> Silver Lake, down near Perry.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
So they've got one.
All right.
yeah, I think there's one in the Greater Cleveland area that I can remember that is still there.
Scott Pukos you've been to a drive in in a while.
>> Not recently, but I love the Silver Lake ones.
Right near Charcoal Corral, so that's a great time to play some mini golf.
Go see a movie.
I used to live close to that area, so I'd go more often, but I love the driving experience, but I haven't.
It's been a while since I've done that.
>> Adam.
>> Oh, no.
Actually, it was this past summer.
Oh.
We we took a couple of days off.
I try to use vacation days.
We went down to the Mahoning in Pennsylvania, which shows 35 millimeter film, and we saw a print of Iron Doors.
Iron giant there.
Yeah, yeah.
>> Iron giant?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> So that was this year.
>> I don't know what that is.
That's a movie.
>> It's an animated Vin Diesel as the voice of this giant robot that comes from space, made for war, but wants to have peace.
>> It's really good.
You should watch it.
1999 movie.
>> 1999.
Wow.
when's the last time for you, Adam?
>> It's probably been about a year, but for usually I try to go at least once a summer because I do like the drive in and.
Yeah Silver Lake is usually my default.
>> That's the place for you.
That's a good one.
Boy, I gotta get down to Silver Lake for that.
Max, you ever been to driving?
>> I've been a few times.
It's been probably ten years.
>> Okay, so, I mean, just to kind of get a sense for this, there were driving Jared's point earlier.
There were neighborhood theaters.
Drive ins were common.
And I think this kind of conversation is important because I think we ought to know about what is changing in our culture before it changes and just decide if that's what we want.
I think that we inculcated some, really.
I wouldn't say bad habits, different habits, sometimes bad habits in the pandemic that have still been kind of hard to break.
And so I know that chain theaters especially are doing whatever they can.
I want to go back to this data.
And, you know, I don't know if this affects you guys as much here.
81% of movie theater executives want an exclusive theatrical window on new releases lasting at least six weeks.
What do you think, Jared?
>> I think that's pretty standard right now.
You've got a 45 day window on almost everything, but, you know, there's some things like Netflix will have something out for 1 or 2 weeks and then put it directly on their service.
They're not doing the 45 day window.
But I think and even when something comes out for streaming that the price of rental can be just as much as you're going to pay going to the movies.
So.
Oh, hey, great.
This new movie is out for rental, but it's 20 bucks.
I might as well pay for that cinematic experience and go see it there.
I think the problem is, and again, we talked about this last time I was on, but people in Rochester take for granted that we have all of these, these cinemas here.
If we think about Ohio or Iowa or these places that don't have so many theaters readily available, this is often the best option for them.
Instead of driving three hours to get to a movie theater that's playing that film, you've really been looking forward to, you have to wait for digital in order to make it fit within your time and your budget.
>> Okay, Scott, what do you think about that?
So what's the what's the controversy about wanting the six week exclusive window?
It sounds like they already got it.
>> Yeah, well, the theatrical window has really.
It's shrunk a lot like it used to be a lot longer.
And it really it's baffling because I don't think it really helps anyone to have a shorter window.
Like it doesn't help theaters.
It doesn't help the studios like they make more money when people go see the movies in the theater too.
So it really is a little I'm a little baffled by it.
It just doesn't make as much sense.
but that's the controversy.
It just keeps shrinking.
And then when people know, like, oh, I don't have to see this in a theater, because later this month, in a week or two, I can I can rent it like that.
That does hurt.
That's not great for for anyone, I don't think.
>> I mean, I would ask you, Adam, what the percentage of films you watch, you see in a theater.
But again, you're not like most people.
You see, it's true.
I mean, you you have to screen more.
You have to review more.
Some you're watching for pleasure.
So it's not quite the same thing.
But do you have a sense for what you're sort of leisure going, what your breakdown is?
>> I mean, I, I mean, I go a few times a month and I. Yeah, see, things.
Yeah.
The, the bigger stuff that does come to little am I other other theater love is is tinsel town.
And.
Yeah, I end up going there.
Yeah.
Usually like a few times a month.
and that's in addition to the stuff I'm seeing at the little and the stuff I'm screening at home.
So, as you said, I'm different than a lot of people.
I watch a lot of movies.
>> Yeah, well, let me read some of the pile of feedback that has have come in here.
so Ariel says, don't forget about the library.
If a movie title isn't on a streaming service, it's almost always on the shelf somewhere in the Monroe County library system.
That's a good point there.
I appreciate that, and I'm sure many people do.
hey, our volunteer George in the booth is reminding me that the city of Rochester has been showing movies on parcel five, a couple each summer.
So that's kind of.
It's a little makeshift walk in or drive in.
You actually don't drive into parcel five.
You probably get arrested for that.
But an outdoor going experience.
Anybody been to a parcel five movie?
Have you guys.
Yeah.
Was it good?
Yeah.
It was experience.
>> Yeah.
We've we've, tabled it.
The little there before and.
Yeah, it's a good crowd.
I mean, sometimes it's depended on the movie, but I to have that communal experience in parcel five, to have people gather and watch a film on the big screen, like, who doesn't love that?
>> Colin writes in to say the Avon Drive-In is the best.
They also do a flea market every Sunday during the summer and fall.
All right, there you go.
So there's a there's more out there than we realize.
Thank you Colin.
Appreciate that.
Jillian says all movie houses have bargain days.
Most of the times.
Tuesdays and free membership.
AMC has it on Tuesdays and Wednesdays.
And the new Apple Cinema at the former Regal Theater in the Greece Ridge Mall is a new lovely theater.
The Tuesday tickets are 575 with Nathan's Hot dogs, self-serve popcorn and soda, bare floors so it always stays clean and great recliners.
and she says Silver Lake Drive-In is a whole afternoon affair.
Obviously, I'm a movie buff, and I'm so sad that theaters are so empty now, and I've heard that the transit is open in the winter, so that's from from Jillian.
Yeah, that's a that's another thing.
Jillian's point about being someone who wants to go to the theater.
If you go a couple times a year, and when you go now, it's mostly empty.
I think you're less likely to go again.
I think people the reason you're going is for a communal experience.
You're nodding there, Max.
You agree with that?
>> Yeah.
I think when I've gone recently, it's been very empty theaters and I it you don't feel the energy I did I see I saw what was it?
Naked gun in theaters.
And that was really great community.
>> The new one with Liam Neeson.
>> The remake?
yeah, the new one.
and that was a great community of loafers.
so to that point and that kind of made me want to come back, but the, the next one I saw was 20% full and it just.
>> And does that just kill the vibe?
>> Pretty much.
I mean, it's yeah, it feels depressing walking into a theater that just, you know, every other seat is completely empty.
>> I think it might depend on what the movie is.
I mean, like, I think if it's like a, an independent kind of a doc, an art house, it probably doesn't bother you as much.
You want to see it on a better and a bigger screen.
And if it's full, it's full.
But if it's like a blockbuster, you know, like so Rob says what about blockbusters with special effects like the MCU movies or like Dune much better in a theater with a great sound system?
and now imagine going to see moon or a marvel movie, and it's an empty theater.
That experience is totally different.
>> Definitely.
And I think a trend I'm seeing with some of these chain theaters is smaller arenas, so they can fit more into the into like their little mall space.
And, you know, you'll have chairs in front of you.
You don't have that slope.
You used to have the recliners or sometimes broken.
And it's like I spent all this extra for a reclining seat.
And there, you know, there's a chance that it's not working.
or it's dirty.
You know, one of the one of those.
>> Adam, are you affected by the vibe?
If the theater's empty.
>>, as you said, it depends on the movie for, you know, some of those, like, comedies, action movies, horror movies.
Sometimes it's it's fun to.
Yeah, feel that energy of a crowd.
But it doesn't affect me as much because I'm a fan of an afternoon movie.
So sometimes I seek out like a, a slower time just to, to enjoy because, to, to the negative side of moviegoing, you know, sometimes there can be, you know, texting or talking and there's there's less of a chance that for an afternoon movie, when I go to the multiplexes.
So, yeah.
>> across the table there, Scott, everybody loves the full theater.
I mean, come on.
>> Yeah, it makes a big difference.
One of my favorite movies of the summer was weapons.
Sorry, there is stabbing in weapons.
>> But weapons is not.
Isn't it?
Like, not about.
That's the one where the kids are disappearing.
>> Yes.
And and the finale of it.
I watched an opening day at the little in our main theater, and people were hooting and hollering like it's.
I was guffawing, like the finale is spectacular.
>> I can confirm that I was the projectionist for the first screening, and I was just up in the booth, so I wasn't watching the screen, and I was just hearing the audience react to whatever was happening, and it made me that much more excited to see the movie.
I'm like, I have to find out what is going on, because the audible noises that audience was making was incredible.
>> Yeah, who doesn't want to go see a movie about a bunch of child abductions?
>> It's fun though.
I was.
>> Gonna say it's it's it is a fun movie.
Despite the premise.
Yeah.
>> You are psychologically.
>> Broken.
>> Maybe.
Maybe not wrong.
>> Are you kidding?
It sounds like people loved it.
And I do love the image of Adam going like, what is going on in this, people?
Are, you said, guffawing.
>> I guffawed.
Yeah, and hooting and hollering.
>> I don't think I've heard guffaw used as a verb like this.
>> In.
>> A long time.
>> It's a favorite.
>> Old soul.
>> Old soul, old soul indeed.
always better in a full theater, right?
Jared.
>> sure.
I mean, yeah, if we could sell out every show, then we'd be happy.
But it's it's not necessarily about.
I think it depends on what you're seeking when you go to the films, if you are the one looking solely for that communal experience, then you need to have that full theater.
but there are experiences that we create on an individual level as well.
And I think I'm often asked in this position, you know, what's your favorite movie?
And I can't tell them, but I can list 5 or 10 of my favorite cinematic experiences.
I can tell you what I saw, where I saw it, who I was with.
>> What's the best one?
>> well, the first one that I always list is at the drive in at the.
Oh, no.
Now, I forgot the name of the drive up in Greece.
1977 saw Star Wars and Orca.
>> Orca.
>> Orca?
Yeah.
It's a jaws rip off with a killer whale.
And we were hiding in the back, and, you know, me and my sister is two and a half years younger than me.
And so I was six at the time.
So we're not supposed to watch that second movie, but, you know, we're peeking, are screaming.
So they took us home.
>> Megan Mack you are.
That orca exists as a terror movie.
Yeah.
so I saw I was one of the first movies I saw in the theater was the live action Robin Williams starred Popeye.
>> Sure.
>> And ever since then, I've got a fear of deep water.
You know why the octopus scene?
Sure.
That octopus in that water was very, very scary to 5-year-old me.
And to this day, my one of my biggest phobias is open water.
And even looking at pictures of big creatures underwater.
>> Yeah, or octopuses in general.
>> Yeah, it's a terrible experience.
No one should have ever traumatized a child with that very real looking octopus and Popeye.
But I think orca would be worse.
Yeah.
I want to tell you, you enjoyed it.
>> Well, the part that I saw.
Yeah, I think it's a pretty high tone, you know.
The history you have where the first film you saw in the theater was a Robert Altman film.
>> That's the Popeye's, Robert Altman.
Okay, maybe not his best work.
>> Yeah, true.
>> Maybe not.
What?
Probably number one for me.
I remember the midnight release of Last Crusade in, like, 88, maybe.
>> 89, 89.
I skipped school for that.
>> So, yeah, I was ten years old, and that was, you know, Raiders of the Lost Ark was like one of the first movies that was like, I was like, whoa.
Like just this grandiose ideas and imagery and characters.
So I'm ten and I, you know, I get the go ahead to go see the midnight release.
I love the idea of a midnight release, by the way, and it was like a party, you know, it was packed.
It was so crowded.
You had two tickets in advance, and these days, midnight releases still happen once in a while.
>> They're often Thursday afternoon now into midnight.
Yeah.
>> So no.
Is what you were saying.
>> They've they've pushed them back.
So it's not just midnight.
>> I think the Jurassic World movie had a midnight release, although that wasn't a great movie.
But what midnight release?
>> What theater did you see?
Last Crusade at?
>> you know, it was in greater Cleveland, Ohio.
It's not the theater that I remember.
It was a chain theater.
I remember being in the lobby and seeing the movie poster going like, I can't believe I'm being allowed to do this.
This is so cool.
You know, I'm ten years old.
And yeah, like, that was an experience that I will remember.
>> The Joel Mokyr stone ridge for me.
>> Oh, you remember the theater.
>> That that was a special experience.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, I'm very sick today.
I need to leave early.
>> Did you do the midnight?
>> No, no, it was afternoon.
Afternoon?
Yeah.
>> It was great.
so.
Okay.
what I have to do.
Fred and Brighton, I'm going to take your phone call on the other side of this break.
I've got more of your emails to read.
Mark emailed to ask me if the little is going to be showing Black Phone two.
Like I know what Black Phone two is, but we're going to.
Maybe that's an anomaly thing that seems kind of stabby.
So we'll we'll talk about that.
Max is nodding along.
Oh, no.
Oh boy.
Gen Z knows the Black Phone movies.
We're talking about the future of movies.
We had a conversation similar to this right at the tail end.
Or right, maybe in the middle of the pandemic, about what was going to change when we stayed home more often, when we streamed more often, when we don't gather together as much.
And now, as we said at the outset, a new poll finds that movie executives more than 50% think that we are 20 years or less from seeing the end of theaters really in this country.
I think that that probably is exaggerated.
We probably will have the Dryden and the little and and the arthouse films and the Indies, but a lot's going to change if we don't decide to stop it.
So that's the conversation, and we'll come right Coming up in our second hour, Taylor Swift has a new album out, and some critics have been really tough, saying that they're kind of bored with her.
Maybe she's too happy, maybe she has it all and she has nothing interesting to say anymore.
Is it impossible to create great art if you're truly happy, or are the critics missing something?
We'll talk about it next.
Our.
>> Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from bond, Chinook and King, a multi practice law firm in Rochester with offices across New York State serving business, healthcare and educational institutions.
Online at ebsco.com.
>> This is Connections.
I'm Evan Dawson lots of ways to interact with the program.
James on YouTube.
In the chat there on the WXXI News, YouTube says there's a drive in movie theater on route five and 20 west of Auburn Aurelius, New York.
Not sure if it's still in operation.
Thank you for the discussion.
And our engineer Rob found that the Rose city Drive-In reopened in Newark last year after nearly four decades.
So cool.
Maybe a little bit of a a vinyl record approach to movie going there with people wanting to kind of see movies in person.
You can call the program toll free 844295 talk.
It's 8442958255263 WXXI.
If you call from Rochester 2639994, email the program Connections at wxxi.org.
This is Fred in Brighton.
Hey Fred, go ahead.
>> Hi.
Thanks for taking my call.
I'd like you're from Cleveland, and I know that there's several places there.
I was I would like to ask if any of your guests or yourself have ever been to a movie palace.
>> A movie palace?
Jared case.
What's he mean?
>> so these were built.
these were not neighborhoods.
These were large congregational areas that hold thousands of people.
And I think the closest one that I've been to was the landmark in Syracuse back when Cinefest was going on.
And they would hold 35mm screenings there, but.
>> That's still there in Syracuse.
>> the building is still there.
Yeah.
I don't know if they do any film anymore.
>> Okay.
I suspect, Fred, that you have been to these.
>> Oh, yes, I have.
I spent a significant part of my youth in Omaha, Nebraska.
There was the Orpheum Theater, which was restored to a performing arts center.
There is what's now known as the Rose, which if you want to Google it was an atmospheric theater.
I'm not going to go into that, but you can check it out, and I'm just thinking, you know, you're talking about community experience.
And I realize, you know, that the idea of the movie palace, you know, seating several thousand people is, you know, it's, you know, financially not feasible.
These days.
But I, I feel very strongly that you know, the, the heritage of those should, should not be forgotten.
There was a book written back in the early 60s by Ben Hall, which was known as the best remaining seats.
And I would advise or encourage everybody to Google that.
it it really brings back what a fabulous era that was, because people could go to a movie and sometimes they could see a stage show, but they could go to a movie.
And even if the movie was bad, the theater itself was entertaining enough.
You know, just absolutely, you know, ornate, you know, fountains, things like that.
And so I just wanted to throw that out there you know, I realize we're in a different era right now, and, you know, I think, you know, I'm glad to see there are still drive ins and the Dryden and the little but no disrespect, I think they pale in comparison.
>> Well, listen, Fred, everyone's got their tastes and preference, and I really appreciate you sharing some of those memories.
I'd never even heard the term movie Palace, by the way.
Jared, that's very interesting.
Do we know how many there were back.
>> In the day?
Well, I don't I'm sure somebody does.
There was a documentary not too long ago about movie palaces that I saw as well.
>> That's the first question I've asked Jared on this show that he's not known an.
>> Answer to.
>> There we go.
We got one, Fred, thank you for that.
Roger says, I feel like one of the biggest issues with movie theaters is that it's an in and out experience.
There are little to no gathering spaces in the theaters for before and after the show.
Events.
Festivities are just getting together.
You walk in, you pay, you see the movie, you leave.
I remember what a blast drive ins were.
I'm older, I'm 61.
As kids, we could always find some trouble to get into if we hated the movie.
That is from Roger.
let me ask all of you a little bit about this, because what I love about going to the little is it's a date night.
I can listen to jazz, I can get a meal.
Tell me a little bit what you think about Roger's point there.
>> Yeah, that's a great point.
I, I love gathering spaces.
And we do have the cafe, as you mentioned, at the little.
And it depends what time you see a movie.
Sometimes it could be closed when, when you're coming out of the movie, but one of the best parts is that conversation afterward.
and whether whether you go with a group of friends or on a date I love going to the movies by myself.
I think that's such a great experience.
And sometimes you end up making you chat with other people who also saw the film.
So having that dialog is a key part of that communal experience.
So yeah, we offer some spaces at the little.
But I think that's a great point.
I think that's exactly what people want when they go out.
>> It's one of the things I love about the little, and it's one of the things that when I've gone to chains, you're kind of trying to have that conversation in the lobby as you walk out, like so like, what did you think?
Like, am I gonna run to the bathroom?
I'll come back, we'll talk, and then you're in the parking lot and then you're gone.
Whereas at the little or I'm sure the Dryden or, you know, many other places that aren't just focused on the in and out, as Roger says, you can have that experience.
I mean, the, you know, again, you had the regal pass.
How do you how much do you enjoy the discussion?
Sort of the post gaming.
>> Oh, definitely.
Definitely very important.
I mean, my friend and I would we'd take public transit and our one of the theaters we went was an hour away.
So we'd have all that time to to, you know, discuss the movie we watched.
And I think another interesting point to that is Gen Z kind of I think they do it in a different way with the trends that occur with movies, whether it's the yelling chicken jockey at the Minecraft movie, right?
I mean, that's the same vein, right?
You're you're getting that community, but you're also finding a little trouble to, to, to get into even, you know, five years ago, wearing suits to the minions movie, you know there's been many trends throughout that, that get that community together and get people talking and laughing.
>> Let's see if Max knows I'm talking.
So you found your Rocky Horror Picture Show.
>> There you go.
>> So you know that.
There you go.
>> There you got that?
>> See, everything old is new again.
the post game.
The pregame.
I think Roger's making a great point.
What do you think, Adam?
>> Oh, yeah.
It's absolutely a key, crucial part of the moviegoing experience is.
Yeah, the the discussion and the, you know, processing after what you've seen and sort of getting everyone's opinions.
Yeah.
That is if not, I don't know if I'd say my favorite part, but it is.
Yeah.
A a important part of that experience.
I did want to go back to the movie palaces real quick though.
My, my father always talked about the, the movie palaces he went to in Rochester.
I think it was the RKO Palace.
and I was always sad that that got torn down because, yeah, those were so many stories that he told me about going to the movies as a kid was that was where he went.
And I've never experienced that.
I feel like the closest thing is Jared knows when we go to Tiff Toronto International Film Festival, the the crowds are so large, they end up showing a lot of their films.
The venues are traditional theaters like the Princess of Wales Theater, which hold thousands of people.
So you kind of get that experience.
And yeah, there's nothing like that of being in a crowd that big watching a movie.
I think this past year seeing Hamnet, which is coming out in a few months and anytime it was a quiet moment, just hearing the sniffles and the sobs of the audience as they were dealing with it.
It's a heavy movie, but it's a great movie.
>> I think it's pronounced hamlet.
>> This one is Hamnet.
Hamnet is based on a novel.
>> well, regarding the palaces producer Megan Mack sends me this from the Smithsonian.
By 1916, there were more than 21,000 movie palaces in the United States, and a tradition was born and several dozen movie palaces are still in operation across the country, according to wired.
But only several dozen out of 21,000.
Wow.
Again, a lot of this conversation is about what changes in the culture, and sometimes you can't stop it.
I get it, you want to stop A.I., you probably can't.
You want to keep your landline.
You can.
My mom's got one.
My.
My son thinks it's amazing to look at it.
Very funny.
but I think this is a choice that we're making as a culture.
If movie theaters go away and I don't think it has to go that way.
Jan in Geneva, listening on Finger Lakes Public Radio WEOS.
Hey, Jan.
Go ahead.
>> Hey, how are you doing?
>> Very good.
>> I just wanted to say that the Smith Opera House in Geneva is an atmospheric theater that holds, in other words, there's a it looks like the sky and like the sun is setting as it gets dark.
and it holds about 1800 people.
And we still show films there, although we never get 1800 people for a film.
>> But it's an atmospheric.
You say.
>> mm-hmm.
>> Yeah.
the way it was designed, when it was, I think it was a shrine movie palace.
It was designed so that as the lights went down, it looked like a sunset going down, and then the stars appeared in the sky and we still have the stars, and I believe there's still some, some of that lighting that looks as though the sun has just gone down.
>> Well, Jan, thank you for reminding us to put the Smith on the list.
Smith is a classic.
Still, still.
>> Is on the list.
>> Yeah.
There we go.
Thank you.
Thank you Jan, appreciate that phone call.
Appreciate listeners of WEOS Finger Lakes Public Radio.
We're going to try to be doing even more across the region.
So if you're in the Finger Lakes, if you're listening on Finger Lakes Public Radio, send us your ideas, Connections at wxxi.org.
We want to make sure that you know, this conversation really is broad and wide and we're touching on issues you want us to talk about cultural institutions, news, et cetera.
so I'm glad to hear from from Jan there.
And let's see here, we've got Anna Lee in Rochester next.
It might be only hey only go ahead.
>> Hi Evan.
It is only.
And so my thing to the panel is I'm a senior.
but I own an Oculus and.
>> Mm.
>> You're right up there.
There's no interruptions.
But.
What?
I just tried this weekend was virtual reality movie and interactive through Blumhouse.
>> mm-hmm.
>> That's not quite there yet, but that's got a lot of potential.
And that's, I think, going to hurt the movie.
The theater industry as well.
>> Okay.
So you got cut off on the front part of your call on Elaine.
I just want you to that first point you made there is after you told us that, you said you're a senior, and when you go to the theater, I want to hear that again, because I want to understand your either your concern or the observation.
>> Or.
But my observation is I'm a senior, but I prefer to watch at home on my Oculus.
>> I see.
>> Because.
it's so immersive.
>> Mm.
Okay.
>> And I prefer, you know, I don't like all the noises and stuff in this movie theaters, you know, the phone calls and the chit chat and the giggling.
>> Well, I'll tell you what everyone has their preferences.
And for some people, the the giggling and the chit chat is like part of the, the atmosphere, the vibe.
But for you, that's distracting.
And so you've got a way of enjoying it for yourself.
I think that probably a lot of people are in that category as you age.
If you have different either hearing or visual needs.
but I also suspect that at the little, you know, you've got people of all ages who come and you want to make sure that they're comfortable.
Scott Pukos.
Yeah.
>> Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
The experience is different for each person.
And yeah, no one likes a distraction.
Yeah.
People being on the phones or anything like that.
>> But yeah, that's.
>> Bad.
I don't, I don't think that's always that common.
Like I, I occasionally see people sometimes if I'm up like in our projection booth or balcony, you could see down and you could see if someone's on their phone.
But I don't think it's always that as much as, like people will make it out to be and theatrical, there are immersive experiences.
There's 4D, X, and there's different ways that are immersive in a theatrical setting.
>> Okay, anything you want to add there, Jared?
>> yeah, I think particularly with the Dryden and Little, the clientele that we get are not necessarily the ones that are going to be the most distracted.
Those people are probably going to the mainstream films, the blockbuster films.
And that's a once a year kind of a thing where they don't want to disconnect from the outside.
It's scary being inside for two hours.
but I think that to Scott's point, one of the best ways or best things to see in a theater with a community is a horror films, and it is stabby season.
So I would encourage everybody to look at the little and Dryden calendars for films coming up.
>> If that's your bag.
that's that's what you like.
I find, as Scott knows, stabbing in movies very antisocial, really feel.
>> Well, normally it's it's it's resolved by the end.
So you feel better by the end of the film?
>> I hope so, but Mark wrote in to ask if you're showing Black Phone two and I'm like, Black Phone didn't resolve itself.
Like, what's going on?
We need a second.
One of these is he want to know if that's going to the little or the Dryden.
>> It is not playing at the little, but I can give a movie suggestion.
There's a horror movie that does not have stabbing, right.
It's a movie.
I think it's only playing at the little.
It's called Good Boy and it's a haunted house horror movie.
That's from the perspective of the dog, and the dog's name is Indy.
Indy plays himself in the in the movie, and the dog acting is incredible.
After the film, dog the dog acting is very, very good.
And after the movie, there's a behind the scenes featurette where they kind of it's very short and they explain a little how they filmed it.
It's the director's dog.
They filmed it in the house.
To get the dog is very emotive and you're like, you seriously will think this dog is acting.
>> I have a very important rule when it comes to streaming shows and movies, and this goes all the way back to Lost's first episode.
If the dog dies, I'm out.
>> Vincent.
It survives.
>> I know, that's why I watched Lost Till the End all six seasons.
The dog did not die.
The dog dies.
I'm out.
Man.
>> The dog.
So the director had a good scene in this where he's like, in most movies.
Horror movies.
You worry.
You see the dog, you're like, oh, it's going to die, but this is the dog's story.
The dog is the hero of this movie.
So keep that in mind.
And it's the director's dog.
So if you think anything real bad is going to happen when this is the director's dog on screen, that kind of gives you an idea of of the safety of this animal.
>> New category Academy Awards for dogs.
>> Well, can I, can I bring this all together?
Because I had a dog named Indiana was a little pug.
>> We named the dog Indiana.
>> We named the dog Indiana.
That was from Last Crusade, which we saw in 89.
>> That came out Sean Connery.
>> Yeah.
>> As Henry Jones.
Yeah.
We named the dog Indiana.
>> We named.
>> The dog.
And your dog Indiana was before that movie.
>> No, no, it was named for that movie.
>> Yeah, that would have been something.
email from Matt in Rochester.
He says I saw the final installment of Downton Abbey at the little.
I was pleasantly startled when others laughed at lines by Mr.
Carson.
I've always watched Downton at home, and I didn't laugh out loud being with others who were laughing out loud.
at the same lines made me appreciate the writing by Julian Fellowes so much more.
Sitting with strangers is healthy, and it's a fun activity that I had forgotten about.
Cool stuff from Matt and Rochester.
The finale of Downton Abbey.
The little.
Were you there for that or was there not enough stabbing in there for.
>> You?
>> I mean, I always go for more stabbing.
It can only be improved with more stabbing in my opinion.
Yeah.
>> Were you there for Downton?
>> I wasn't, I actually haven't seen any of them.
Downton Abbey movie.
>> But I, you know, some.
But Max, that's an interesting point that Matt is making there.
It's like this is something he was used to seeing at home.
And even when he would appreciate the writing, he might not react out loud.
And what he was saying is it actually is contagious.
It is something that other laughter begets more laughter.
And he enjoyed that experience.
You feel that when you go.
>> I definitely I think seeing Naked Gun and hearing everyone's different takes and laughing and, you know, it's very deadpan, so everyone reacts differently, I think, to to deadpan.
Some people will think it's funny, some people won't.
and there was lines that I didn't think were funny and people other people thought were funny, and there was the opposite.
So that was kind of a cool, shared experience, like, oh, we got, you know, person to the third row is a real, you know, real laugh or, you know, the person next to me might be asleep, you.
>> Know.
>> It's.
>> And yeah, that's even when you're stranger sitting in the dark not saying anything.
You learn a lot about the people you're in the theater with, by what they laugh at or what they react to on screen.
It tells you a lot about a person.
>> I think that's a really interesting observation, by the way.
the new Naked gun, my concern was.
So I laughed out loud at the man's laughter line at in the trailer, and I'm like, if that's the best line in the movie, though, then it's going to be downhill.
But what if it's good?
Was it good?
Was it worth seeing?
>> I thought it was good.
Yeah.
I Liam Neeson is very, very funny.
I was a little surprised that he could he could nail it.
he's big shoes to fill, but he did.
He did a he did a good job.
>> With Leslie Nielsen.
>> Yes, yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> okay.
Well, we've had a boy this hour has flown by.
I could have taken more phone calls.
We have a lot of emails that have come in.
If people just sharing their favorite places.
Similar to Jared's point, their memories not only of what they saw, but where, who they saw it with.
And I'm sure this is that you can have the same reaction to a movie you saw at home, but maybe not as viscerally.
I just think that that's the difference.
And I sound like an evangelist, but I'm a little worried that we're going to lose these third, these, you know, third places, these social gathering places.
And I just don't want to see theaters go away, even though I probably should go to more movies myself.
So I just want to thank our guests for a great conversation this hour.
Max Conway decided to come in and trust us and have fun here.
He's a recent RIT grad, a journalist, a content creator.
Come back sometime.
Let's talk about some other stuff.
Really enjoyed having you.
>> Sounds great.
Thanks so much.
>> Thank you for being here.
Thank you to Adam, who's a programmer at the little The Anomaly Film Festival is coming up in just a few weeks.
>> It's fifth through.
>> Ninth, the fifth through 9th of November happening where.
>> at the little theater and one screening at the Dryden.
>> There you go.
And where more information.
Where for that.
>> anomaly film fest.
>> Com thank you for being here.
As always.
Have fun with that.
Scott Pukos, director of Communications at the little.
Thanks, my friend.
Always fun.
>> Thanks for having.
>> Me and Jared.
Case, curator of film exhibitions at the Dryden Theater at the George Eastman Museum and an encyclopedia himself.
I'm gonna see if I can stump you again sometime.
>> I'd welcome it.
>> Thank you for being here.
More Connections coming up in a moment.
>> This program is a production of WXXI Public Radio.
The views expressed do not necessarily represent those of this station.
Its staff, management or underwriters.
The broadcast is meant for the private use of our audience.
Any rebroadcast or use in another medium, without expressed written consent of WXXI is strictly prohibited.
Connections with Evan Dawson is available as a podcast.
Just click on the Connections link at wxxinews.org.
- News and Public Affairs
Top journalists deliver compelling original analysis of the hour's headlines.
- News and Public Affairs
FRONTLINE is investigative journalism that questions, explains and changes our world.
Support for PBS provided by:
Connections with Evan Dawson is a local public television program presented by WXXI