♪ > > This week on the Wheelhouse grassroots efforts.

Community organizing.

Now everyday people actually make a difference > > for Connecticut Public, I'm Frankie Graziano.

This is the Wheelhouse to show that brings politics.

The people we got your weekly dose of politics in Connecticut and beyond right here.

In July about three-quarters of Americans surveyed in an NPR poll said they felt that democracy is under threat but few know what to do about it.

If democracy starts with the people, why do so many people feel powerless?

This hour?

We're talking about power, not on Constitution Avenue in Washington, D.C., but the power we all have right here locally in our own communities.

It's grassroots activism, starting with neighbors knocking on doors and ending with legislation.

Local lives changed today.

We'll hear from a Connecticut qeii organizer and someone who studies what happens when everyday people refused to sit on the sidelines.

Joining me now, local community organizer, Kerry Ellington.

Good Morning, Carrie.

happy to be here.

So happy to have you on here.

So happy to catch up with you.

Also joining us, Professor Hari High Political science professor at Johns Hopkins University.

Also the inaugural director of the SNF, a Gore institute.

Thanks so much for being on the show today.

Hari, thank you for having me.

In the side of station.

So happy to have the both of you.

If you all want to have a question about how people are getting involved out there, if you want to give us a call or if you are interested in some of the things that are happening in America right now, give us a call.

8, 8, 7, to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, Kerry, I want to start with you.

What first drew you to getting involved in community organizing.

Great question.

I > > regulated actually front.

But university in 2008 and I got commit connected to an AmeriCorps program called Public Allies in.

I You know, underwent a fellowship there.

And I work with the nonprofit organization 5 days out the week will teach our children and teach our children was an organization started by parents in the UK that you made in public school district who were being impacted, their children being impacted by issues of injustice in the organized to build power and to build campaigns to get meaningful.

You know, winds and, you know, and address the bills that they wanted to see change in the school system.

So my first when that community organizing was meeting with parents that after school dismissals and learning about the issues that they were impacted by here in New Haven issues like limited recess for children are no recess at all issues like, you know, young being held to really tough punitive standards and being suspended out of school before, you know, discretionary issues that didn't need to be resolved in that way and things of that And I was.

In particular, it impacted having come up to New Haven is York City public schools buy issues of those same injustices so that I was really call to do that work.

When you talk about winds, help us understand what that means.

Exactly.

What are you trying to do and what are you trying to essentially at whatever level you're working at trying to accomplish?

> > That's Rick.

You know, Wednesday include like getting policies, change, vetting > > practices, change and the system.

So this would be like going in front of a school board or something like that and trying to trying to advocate around getting people involved that way.

> > That's right.

At the time we had a campaign to build a unified code of conduct.

I'm for it even public schools.

Because what would happen you know, schools would take to their own punishment measures, if you will.

And that created not just in New Haven, but across the state of Connecticut for black and brown children, disparate punitive measures that we use where we saw high numbers of black and brown children being suspended either in-school suspension or out of school suspensions from really Neal issues and really issues of cultural Catholic conference in seat that the teachers and the staff had, but that young people were being held accountable for.

> > This wasn't a political group teach our People really not necessarily having formal training in grassroots activism, everyday people right?

> > Everyday people.

These a lot of black and brown moms you know, I'll speak We also had campaigns dealing with improving translation and the school system we would hear from a lot of Latinx members and leaders of the organization that they would, you know, be asked to come to school parent teacher, parent, teacher meetings or school district meetings and nothing would be translated.

So we had a translation campaign.

So yes, this with everyday people and who were who wanted to effect change in and wanted to improve the lives of children's education.

> > And back to go in and back to those winds because there's a lot of stuff that you're all trying to establish their and again, we're trying to help people understand what this eventually result in what were the efforts are and where the efforts of teach our children sorry, successful in changing out the school district there.

And and in New Haven operated.

Most definitely he changes > > You know, school leaders school leaders, but that the principal or school district leaders really beginning to, you know, you know, embrace what the parents were saying, inviting them to the table to be heard to set the agenda and we did get that unified code of conduct.

We did get practices change with translation services.

So we did see some direct wins.

> > And then I want to say that's really what got you started after you get out of Quinnipiac.

But is there a there sparked there?

You start to think that this is something that you could do for a living and continue to do.

> > Yes, that's right.

You know, that was right around the same time that Obama got elected in the nation, got a language for what community organizing was a the American.

It is.

So we you know, at that time there weren't a lot of community organizing, professional job that you can hold.

But since then, there have been a growth and spread of those across the state for nonprofit organizations seeing the importance of funding that work and funding communities and organizations who do that work so that they can do that.

You know, full time and not just, you know, after work, which can be, you know, but, you know, I think that's where the heart of the work is.

But sometimes it needs to or most times it needs to be funded, a resource that can be done at its best.

> > Are on an egg or inaugural director of the SFA Gore institute at Johns Hopkins University.

I'm sort of curious with you Hari what sparked your interest in studying civic engagement?

> > Yeah, well, first off, thank you so much for having a conversation is really great to have an opportunity to talk about all of these really important questions.

I think that on so many people's minds.

It I like represent daughter of Korean immigrants in Houston, Texas, a group in a family that was very apolitical as if you'd asked me when I was younger.

It's studying something like organizing or in a civic engagement would be something I would do.

I never would thought that that would be something I would be interested in.

But seen similar to carry I went to college and a student organization has involved when having to get into a fight with the university South pulled into student activism almost by accident.

Not because I was seeking it out, but because I was involved in other organization that I got into this situation.

And I think there's something really intoxicating about the experience they have, you know, working with my peers to try to figure out how can we realize the vision of the world that we want, right?

Like?

I think a lot of us look around.

We see this gap between the world as it is in the world is that could be and we don't know what to do.

And I happen to have this experience in college being able work with other people, try to figure out how we close that gap.

And that was so exciting that that's what got me interested in small P politics is what got me interested in organizing and then eventually went I worked in politics for the years and then she went to grad school and want to try to understand how dumb how it works and how to make it more possible for more people > > spent years studying grassroots movement since then, including an evangelical megachurch in Cincinnati.

Your latest book and undivided, the quest for racial solidarity in an American church examines its efforts around racial solidarity.

Can you talk more about the book?

> > Am one of the things that I've always been interested in is working to understand how you engage what I think of it like hard to reach populations and pull them off the sidelines and to public > > And so a lot of the work life.

that we've done is working with like low income communities of color, other communities that might be structurally marginalized.

But in this case we were working with a group of people who are organizing around racial justice and evangelical megachurch.

And so it was hard to reach in the sense that that was kind of an unusual context within which to do that kind of work and this story kind of traces for people who are all part of the 3rd largest white dominant evangelical megachurch in Cincinnati, Ohio, and in 2016 that highest-ranking black pastor in the church.

The church is 80% white, 20% nonwhite started a program around racial justice within the church.

And that program called undivided, ended up animating.

> > The hole.

> > Cohort of people who would have gone through the experience to get involved in a campaign in the city to raise taxes on since 9 residents in order to fund universal preschool with targeted resources for the poor black children in the city.

And I was drawn to that story initially that was really interested in, you know, how attacks like that with past, it turned out to be a pass with the highest margin of any new education tax.

And Cincinnati is 3.

And how did that happen in 2016?

In the same election where we saw fit and acrimonious election playing out in national politics and it turns out is because, you know, partly because so many of these volunteers from across the city had been animated by invited to play out their commitments to racial justice through this campaign is I got really interest in trying to understand what made this program work.

> > What are your takeaways?

It was rather interesting for you, but what were your takeaways about the actual program working and then it's showing not necessarily that people gather, but how they gather determining whether change actually happens.

> > Yeah, you know, the kind of build a lot on what Kerry said about her own experience with public allies and and some of her work in New Haven and, you know that I think really a lot of times we just talk about grassroots organizing in the media.

It is kind of like how many people showed up and how many people did this thing or that thing and one of the things that I learned a undivided and lot of work that we didn't and also looking organizations like the work that carries describing is that it matters not just that people get involved, but how they get involved.

That really makes the difference in.

So in undivided instant, you know that first time they ran that program in the church, they had 1200 people go through the program, right?

And it was a six-week journey that did everything from teach people about structural injustice and empathy.

And, you know, other kind of skills like that but really what it was trying to do is put people into communities of belonging that enabled them to feel safe.

Taking risks and then give them the opportunity, the kind of strategize about how they would act on problems that they signed this case around racial justice in their own church community and that.

Work of equipping people to become architects of their own future.

I think it's so rare and so many so much to the politics that we have.

You know, so often where is Asians try to get people involved?

Essentially what they do is try to asked people to outsource their outrage to somebody else, right?

Like give me $5 and then let the professionals decide what they're going to do with the money.

You know, give me your name on a petition with the professional decide.

We're going to send the petition and what undivided was doing in towns like what Kerry's worked as in Connecticut is really tries to say, hey, we're not going to ask you to outsource the anger that you have.

We're going to try to equip you to act on your own in stings.

> > Outsourcing outrage and anger is something we're going to continue to dive into.

So hold on to that.

I just want to ask folks out there if they feel like they belong in their community or if they want to really tell us how they're getting involved.

Give us a call.

8, 8, 7, to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, It really like to hear from people on some of their own experience as well.

> > Hari it in that whole program that you were following and really since.

> > What are some of the hardest moments that you sort of witnessed?

It's a tremendous effort to get people involved and then you have generally either pushback from folks or some some wins and losses as well as we try to encounter policy changes.

So help us understand some of those hard moments.

> > Yeah, so I think the book is divided into 2 big parts and I call the first part education and the second part backlash, right?

And the reason for that is has its chasing the journey of people who went through the program in the beginning.

That kind of question of how did people become agitated are motivated to want to do the hard work of engaging questions of racial justice and injustice in their life.

You know, then the second thing is when you really take space that work, then inevitably people get backlash from there, you know, from people around that rights.

In some cases, it was for people in their workplace.

Are people in their church community came from within people's families and their own personal relationships.

And the question of how do you with and that backlash when it comes your way.

How do you maintain the courage?

The continue to keep acting in that, you know, in this and undivided, I think a lot of that had to do with that way in which people were embedded in relationships of others who held them accountable to those commitments.

Right.

And so it's really hard to live out the concrete reality of figuring out how to make just Israel in your life.

And so you need other people around you who are going to help you maintain the courage but also help you think through kind of complex situations in which there are formulas for how we should answer them.

And so that's that's one part of it.

But the second part of it, I think to your question, this is the point that Kerry was making earlier about the ups and downs that come with any kind of campaign.

And yes, there absolutely are winds.

There are moments when we begin to see change in the world.

But the other thing that we have to recognize is that in the work of organizing winds calm not only through the change in the world that we can make, although that is very important.

But it's also about the extent which were able to a clip.

Individuals and organizations to be able to have the skills and the capabilities they need to do that work again and again and again.

And so when there's so many stories where you can win an election and lose power and you can lose an election and gain power.

Right?

And that has to do not just with and it is my candidate winning or losing or something like that.

But are we winning in a way that's building the power of people to continue to be able to hold that elected official to account in the future or something like that right.

And so that's why I think sometimes the winds happened in ways that aren't always visible, which is such an important lesson for people to hear as they are dealing with the backlash as they're dealing with all those really hard moments when it may seem like we're not making progress, but we are winds not always visible.

It's continue to think about that and start to.

> > Understand and unpack some of these with success metrics here.

So to speak.

Hari mentioned earlier that we can get caught up too much in turnout numbers that protest and things like that.

Some curious to see, Carrie, what are some of the better ways to gauge if change is happening but to understand, I guess 10 changelly whether or not change is sort of coming to the to the forefront.

> > Yeah, I you know, one important measure is leadership development.

So how many leaders are, you know, being built through the book, community organizing?

What do the type of organizing you're doing?

Our folks stepping out the way and growing.

New leaders are there new, you know, community leaders showing up 2, you know, organized to testify to that, to to, to make the changes that hard speaking to or is it just the same?

Write the same folks kind of showing up.

So I think one way to measure your, you know, the question you're asking is to, you know, having like solid leadership development and organizing is critical and and another way to measure is are you growing your base?

you know, building a base to really to do the ongoing work that hard he's talking about is so critical because organizing is labor's work.

And and folks, you know, are living in a half full time job and have children and have things to do outside of that.

So are we, you know, putting the burden of many of the change making on the same group of people are rebuilding and bringing in others and people across communities to really take on the campaigns that we're looking to get, you know, change that we're looking to address.

So I think based building is really key.

Leadership development is is very key.

And when you see that happening in your organization, those are ways to measure success.

If you see that kind of stagnant, that's where I think efforts need to be put into and sometimes that gets overlooked.

When something happens in the community.

You're talking about teach our children and trying to make sure that you're sort of reducing the school to prison pipeline.

> > When you're considering.

Trying to get justice in the community, somebody being shot and not necessarily having an arrest result from that shooting.

Everybody gets charged up so then when that becomes hard to do anything, but get amped up and ask for justice.

How does one actively listen as you'll have to at some of these times and engage in deep listening.

> > The rookie repeat the question it, but I know that when when when every when something happens and you're trying to seek justice how can you also at the same time engage in active listening to try make sure that you can get everybody in the community sort of involved I mean, how in Perry is active listening to what you do?

> > It's so it's so critical.

I mean, a big part of organizing that we haven't touched on it relationship building and, you know, an end.

There's there's like a more technical term under likes elements, these model of community organizing with doing one on ones.

And that's really the space where you do the active listening to someone, you know, building real relationships with community members.

You may not know to learn about people's lives and stories and what the you know, what they're impacted by and to bring to coalesce those folks in a room, right where you have more community conversations and more community organizing meetings you know where and that's the that's the space essentially.

I think the sacred space where that listening is happening with that relationship building is happening.

and and and the trust.

you know the trust building is happening.

So that you can really do.

> > The work in the way and > > The.

the ways that needs to be done.

> > Some of those conversations that it sounds like people were having during the undivided program, Hari, you can imagine that is as people are trying to enact a change that some conversations happen because you're talking about backlash right?

So there's sort of outrage and then there's outrage to the outrage.

You know, if these conversations sort of get heated, how do folks involved either handle those moments?

Maybe they listen as we were talking about with Candy, how does how does this all play out?

> > Yeah, you know, one of the big lessons that I learned from the work that I did with undivided came through a motto that the church has, which I had heard before or what they heard it.

I was like, oh, they just summarize like 50 years of social science research and forward.

Even once that they have this motto and that's as belonging comes before belief, right?

The idea being that you know, if people we we have this attitude in the posture of radical.

Welcome to people who agree with us and the people who disagree with us.

All right.

And that we're going to embrace people in there.

The fullness of their humanity, pull them into a community of belonging and then from there create the kind of social relationships that form the foundation to be able to have the hard conversations about places where we disagree.

And I think in so many instances, a lot of civic and political organizations that we have are the opposite, right?

They assume that belief comes before belonging right to first.

You have to show that you agree with us before.

We're going to welcome you into your can our community and that it creates a posture within with the kind of active listening that we know that is so important for solving problems together.

And it's hard to do because if I'm not going to welcome you into what you sow that you agree with me, that almost by definition makes act of listening.

Really hard to do.

Right.

And so you have to start with this posture that we belong to each other and the hard work of democracy, the hard work of organizing the hard work of any kind of civic engagement it's really the work of trying to figure out how do we forge a common life together and that begins by being willing to confront both people who are like it's the people who are not like us and and build those relationships that enable to kind of vulnerability that makes acted listening possible.

> > Listeners of the Wheelhouse.

Do you feel like you belong in your community?

Do you feel like you need to actively get involved in your community?

Are you already a part of a local organization?

And if so, what moved you to get involved?

We want to hear from you.

Give us a call.

8, 8, 8, 7 to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 7, to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, after the break.

Our guests, Connecticut community organizer, Kerry Ellington and Hari on political professor political science professor from Johns Hopkins University.

We'll weigh in on whether in a digital world door knocking is still effective.

Listening to the Wheelhouse on Connecticut Public.

♪ > > In ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ > > This is the Wheelhouse from Connecticut Public Radio.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

Many of us have attended a rally, a protest march in our lifetimes.

For me, it's been covering some of these events.

But do you ever wonder what kind of impact those events have?

That's what we're digging into today.

Grassroots activism and its impact on politics.

We're talking with experts and community organizing about what methods really bring about political change.

Still with me, hearty hot political science professor at Johns Hopkins University and Kerry Ellington, Connecticut community organizer.

We do want to invite people to give us phone call today.

If you'd like to talk or hit us up on our YouTube stream and he stepped up in your community, joined a local board organized to clean up what pushed you to get involved.

Maybe you've been door knocking something ready to talk about this segment.

88 7 to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 7 to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, in your recent work with New Haven, Legal Assistance Association, Kerry, you did a lot of door knocking showing up in person where the people you talked to surprised by that level of face-to-face outreach in 2025.

> > So it was it was about a couple years ago.

It 2025.

And this was during the height of COVID.

We were doing knocking because we wanted to inform as many, you know, tenants and community members across the city.

You know what was happening in relationship to housing in the moratoriums.

> > that were that were, you know, taking place at that time.

> > And we're also door knocking to inform.

> > tenants who are being evicted that they had a right to legal counsel and getting them connected to legal counsel at the organization.

People we're beyond grateful.

You know.

I would say, you know, you'd be surprised the kind of people bring you right into the issues that they're dealing with.

A heard a lot about, you know, tenants having to deal with some words you know, hearing about, you know, people are really excited to know that it was an organization that was going to give them legal counsel because they were having to go through the process of eviction and needed to defend, you know, meeting at a council to defend themselves.

So people are beyond grateful and really vulnerable.

And those moments and sharing what they were dealing with in relationship to their housing.

In your experience, Hari.

> > Y is face-to-face relationship building so crucial to change.

> > Yeah, I mean, there's been a ton of research on this question and just to kind of reinforce the point, I'll say that basically with the research shows is that the more personal, the interaction is the more effective that it is in cop and pulling people off the sidelines.

And so phone calls more effective than a text.

A face-to-face conversation is more effective than a phone call, you know, it's bad and in person extended conversation is more effective than a short formulate conversation.

Like all these kind of things are true.

And so that's very much verified by the research in terms of why I think it matters.

I think it really has to do with this question of what is the extent to which we're offering invitations to people to get engaged in public life in a way that tries to help them put their own hands on the levers of change.

And I think that when someone to send you a text and said, hey, get out and vote or whatever that thing is the doing.

The one of the things that people realize is that they're kind of a cog in a giant machine, right?

And if they do vote, someone else to vote, right.

And that basically it treats people as if they're ATM's for for votes, for opinions, for names on a petition for dollars for something like that.

And the more personal that you make, the interaction the last people feel like their ponds and again, that someone else was controlling.

It enables people to recognize their own agency in their own humanity where they are not just interchangeable cop cars in the machine, but it's that I actually need you, Frankie to show up, not just a generic human to show up and that makes a big difference.

Not being pawns sorry.

Go ahead.

> > They could add to that.

Yes.

Yes, absolutely.

In addition to everything, how are you saying?

You know, one thing that I at that time, you know, a couple years ago was that it was a huge digital divide, right?

So a lot of folks who doors we not gone the necessarily have access to the Internet or, you know, maybe were elderly.

you know, weren't, as you know, technologically literate as others, maybe so we found that it was actually critical to knock on doors because not everyone, especially in, you know, lower income communities receiving get information in this in the same ways that the mass populace does.

So it was really critical to to to be on those doors.

Thank you so much for sharing that very important experience.

> > As we talk about trying to make sure that people aren't sort of pawns in a chess game and not necessarily outsourcing their anger.

This direct sort of participation.

Is it more powerful?

What can be the downside to doing it?

Help us understand.

> > Yeah, I mean, I think when to get back to the question that you're asking before about, how do we assess the kind of like Matt McKay stuck building?

what Kerry You know, when I was learning organizing like the thing that they taught us is that when you're assessing the outcomes, have any kind of organizing campaign you want to at 3 levels, right?

The first is did we develop individual leaders, the second is did we create collective capacity in the community?

> > To be able to act together and then the 3rd is did we make a change in the world that we want to see?

And I think so often we only pay attention to that 3rd piece without paying attention to the threat for the first 2 pieces out and that you talked about and answer your question more directly, I think that's part of the reason why, if you looked at the research, unlike what do we know about what makes it affected?

And it's really just it's really about not just did you pull people off the pot off the sidelines, but did you pull them off the sidelines that its naval them?

Can it continue working together in an ongoing way to hold on to the winds that they achieved.

Right.

And so so often we do so much work to get people involved once.

But what we know is that on this sticky social problems that we have, the talent is not just to get people involved.

Want, but if the get them involved and to stay involved again and again and again and to get them to NAV, be to help them kind of like navigate complex situations of injustice and their allies in a strategic ongoing way.

And so that requires that first, the second level of individual eclectic pass a T one of the things that we talk about in organizing is that the challenge is not just how do you get people to do a thing?

But how do you get people to become the kind of people who do it needs to be done?

And I think if you think about that question, the invitations that we offer, people have to be really different over not just getting them to do anything once we're trying to get them to develop that internal compass that it takes to continue to act strategically on questions of injustice in their lives.

> > We've been talking about door knocking in personal connection.

Want to shift to activism online.

Kerry mentioned that Devitt digital divide.

Big problem in getting everyone involved, particularly when everybody had to be remote because of the pandemic.

And yet social media such a big part of today's civic life.

How effective is it?

Is it as a tool for protest > > am I think that?

Okay.

So this is a this is a place for I might disagree with some of my colleagues and local science like other people who do the work that I do.

> > some people would sort of are you that inherently digital tools are going to be less effective then than other kinds of things?

And I think the thing that I feel like is that I have seen good organizing happen online.

And I think that organizing happen offline.

I thing bad organizing happen online and also seen bad organizing happened off or, you know.

And so what that tells me is that if not just necessarily about the technology that we're using, it's really much more about the principles that drive the strategies for organizing that we're doing.

And so the challenge with digital tools is that the incentives within the digital economy.

Artemis take attention for power, right to sort of mistake.

This idea that if I get lots of attention, if I go viral, that must mean that I'm winning.

All right.

And that we know there's After example, after example, the world that that's just not true.

It's not the tool.

It's the carpet.

It's not the exactly it's not that old cabin of an excellent way of putting it.

Actually, this is going to come like the long before Billy Hughes encapsulate all this research and forward.

Thank you.

Yeah, not so much.

Like are we doing I think are we really being strategic and conscientious about what power we have and what power we don't have, right?

Are we people to equipping people to act grounded in their own trade interest connected to each other when their hands the levers of change.

And just because I get a million likes on social media doesn't mean that I have that power and I have to be really clear eyed about what it means and what does it mean?

But social media can do just like any other media attention is being kind of create a surround sound with in which an issue is coming on to you.

That public consciousness.

But the ability to actually maintain the world often does not depend on just that surround sound and felt that that have to be grounded in people negotiating interest together.

Kerry, help me dig into some of these definitions here.

You talked about the difference earlier between activism.

> > And community organizing how his community organizing different from activism.

> > You know, activism is really about advocating for the issues that you believe in community organizing is different in that.

It's directly about building power and making direct change through the use of different tactics and tools.

So so, you lot of times organizing gets confused for activism and activism gets confused for organizing and it is, you know, definitely like the tension point.

Covid saying movements basis.

But organizing is directly about, you know, making change and the people who are making that change are the people were most impacted by those issues and that people who are on the sidelines or scholars of the issue.

But the people who are most directly impacted speaking in making the change in building power it the process you know, doing that and getting the outcomes that they want to see change made caught in the decision-making, getting decision-makers, you know, changing the power relations between decision makers getting decision makers to to to, to answer to their demands and Harvey, can you draw on that?

Because Kerry saying that the movements are strongest basically when people at the center.

> > Are people most directly affected?

> > Yeah.

yes.

So we find that that's true in our research.

Also is that you want the people who are most directly affected to be at the center of it.

The reason from a strategic standpoint why you want that?

So I just want to say, first of all, that like course they're all for the kind of moral and reasons why we would want the people who are both directly affected to be at the center.

But let's assume that your total transactional, you know, political operative, you know, care about the moral questions at stake.

You just want to win right?

Why would you still want to do that?

Well, with the research shows, is that the reason why is because?

Movements are most effective when they have an urgency at the center of them that forces people to be creative about how to navigate complex, uncertain situations that they face and that urgent see comes from the needs of the people who are most directly affected.

And what I mean by that, a good.

What we found in our research.

Is that a good movement?

What different because of possible movement from the unsuccessful movement is not how good their strategic plan was at the beginning.

It's how good they were at adapting their strategic plan when an uncertain talents faced came came their way rights and never in the history of the world has and the kind of knock on the door powers that, hey, guys, we want change and then the people of power like, oh, yeah, here.

Let's just give it to you, right?

It doesn't happen that way.

What happens is a movement advocate for change and then the people that this is a POW, our pushback, right.

And when you get that push back, how do you respond?

And that's the real question where to test the capacity of a movement.

And in that moment, what the research shows is that the movements that are grounded in the people who had the greatest need that because they have no other choice.

They get really creative strategically and they get really thoughtful about how they can abrogate these challenges that are coming their way.

And that's because I'm someone who does who is not struggling to feed my family.

I have no choice but to figure out how am I going to feed my family?

Right?

And so I become creative thinking at address the towns of before me where the biggest outsource it to a bunch of professionals and they don't feel that same sense but he did or didn't see and so there's a lot of you just 3 in play.

There's a lot of moral reasons why we want the people who are most affected to be at the front line.

The change.

But the research.

So there's also a lot of strategic reasons why you want that to be the case as well.

From Connecticut Public.

Yeah, go ahead.

Parents are apologize that my really clear example in lifting up what?

> > Hari thing.

In addition, you know.

When when when we have professionals professional changemakers kind of involved in pushing for change, for instance, like the question of police violence in police accountability.

The matter is tend to get kind of white wash and watered down right.

you have most impacted.

You know, we when I say we because I am one of those people, the issues, you know, that are being pushed under the rug.

You know that from under it to the forefront to the front lines and one of those issues that is a huge issue right now.

It continues to be an issue in Connecticut is the way police murder police killings are measured.

> > And oftentimes we see we see organizations that have the resources that have, you know, kind of the full professional staffing who are who are mining the data, if you will, of this issue, putting the number of people who are who have been killed by police in Connecticut, putting a misleading number out there.

That's not accurate.

That doesn't show the truth.

Not just police killings but police assaults, harassment and things like this.

The data is not accurate.

And when you have communities at, you know, at the room at the center, you know, there's a growing number of communities taking on this issue because there, again, people impacted across the state from this issue saying this is what actually is happening year to year.

This is actually the number of people have been killed this year.

Last year, right?

And it's not this watered down number that, you know, sir, such as organization who's getting the credit is putting out there.

So it's really important that people at the centre at the Center our do the work because the truth comes out, You know, I know kind of speaking in a lot of like, you know.

From, you respective which has been like research and studies.

But just how I think that cleanly here in this in this state is, you know, we brought on truth to power to really say like, no, this is actually what's happening on the ground.

It's not, you know this, this this water down number of folks here have to buy the silence is actually this.

This is, you know, the huge number and help me out with this connection and we get it.

We're going to quickly because where to go to a break.

But > > the it's brought this up because your work that you've done in community organizing has led to some of the efforts in Connecticut being a place that has better numbers that other people do at least.

we're trying to get data that's more reliable than this FBI uniform crime data that a lot of people have.

But those efforts come out of protests that you lead in New Haven when Stephanie Washington was shot in 2019 and now we have at least better numbers where people are trying to quantify the issues to sort of stop racial disparities in policing.

So can you at least kind of comment on that end and what those efforts were like from your port perspective.

> > Yeah, you know, there's justice for Stephon Impala's one effort and there are many can point to at least, you know, the you know, at least, you know, different regions around the state where they're justice efforts for people who have been killed by police in those people now are doing what you're speaking to front there, taking up.

They are showing up at their, you know, municipal city lead meetings that the legislative hearings at police commission meetings, they are showing up and holding press conferences and in and, you know, naming what is actually occurring in different municipalities across combat of Connecticut.

And there is widespread police violence that happens and we can't unsee it now, right?

Because people are the you know, different communities.

You have justice for Stephen Barrier out in Stamford, Connecticut, Stephen Bear Year was a young man who was murdered by Sanford police.

He was having a mental health crisis and he was met with police violence.

And you have justice for Jason in Bridgeport, Connecticut, carrying the torch in Bridgeport and pushing for police and the sticks and to state sanctioned violence in Grand Prairie police abolition right?

Have efforts and New Britain right now with justice for captain Cologne, where Catholic, along with woman was just just idly standing there and was killed because the police officer was a road.

The recklessly chasing someone in the community and hit and killed.

Catherine has yet to any accountability.

So you have more communities coming to the forefront to say this isn't not just an issue in Bridgeport and New Haven, but this is an issue in the small, smaller cities in suburban towns and and making, you know, people aware that this is happening, one in pushing for change in those areas, too.

And that is what really impacts the ability for the been the lawmakers to then go and say, you know, this is, you know, there is a base of people widespread across Connecticut that are impacted by this issue and something needs to happen.

We always feel like more needs to happen is, you know, the police accountability Bill didn't go far enough.

We still have the issue of qualified immunity where, you know, you have Connecticut taxpayers paying for the burden of police violence and not the actual police themselves.

So we're still pushing for, you know, I'm stronger laws.

But, you know, that is the way in which I would say communities taking up space.

One using digital media using physical space to bring these issues to the forefront of the powers that be in to demand change and to to use every single action direct action tactic that under their Wheelhouse to, you know, to get those changes made to underscore something the Kerry said, the numbers show or at least the research shows in Connecticut that > > black people in Connecticut face racial disparities in policing and a lot of the times when there are being stopped for what ever reason or something is happening.

Somebody is going through a mental health episode.

So this is the important work that's being done locally in something the Kerry says can definitely be expanded upon after the break, we're going to ask our experts for their advice on how everyday people can have a big impact and how organizers can encourage people to do more than its share.

Do you think social media helps or hurts civic engagement?

Have you gone from posting online showing up in person for protests?

Tell us about it.

And I got to a bird of personal business here.

The Wheelhouse.

Before we had to break, we've got some exciting news.

> > We're opening our house.

You once again.

The Wheelhouse live is back.

Come watch the show in Hartford.

Catch a conversation on free speech.

Maybe catch and Ali or 2 at this year's Wheelhouse live.

We're talking about pop culture, politics and late night TV.

We'll speak with a writer from Stephen Colbert and explore what free speech means in America today.

Get your tickets at CD Public Dot Org Slash Frankie CT Public Dot Org Slash F R a and K I E we'll see you December 10th in Hartford at 06:30PM.

And after a quick break, we'll see or Wheelhouse don't go anywhere.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ This is the Wheelhouse from Connecticut Public Radio.

I'm Frankie Graziano Americans today are worried about democracy.

This hour.

We're talking about grassroots activism and how it creates change.

Kerry Ellington, a community organizer here in Connecticut.

One of the last questions I'm going to ask here in the only about 3 minutes we have left on the show.

A lot of people say they simply don't know where to start or how to make their voices heard.

What guidance you offer, someone who wants to get involved or but doesn't necessarily know or could feel overwhelmed by the whole process.

Yeah, I would say, you know, it's to tap into your community.

There's so much richness that that that lives within our communities.

You know, if you know, finding.

> > The community organization or community meetings where people may be, you know, discussing the issues and that is that folks impacted by our good places to show up because you often find other community, you change leaders in the room or organizations that are looking to build their membership in.

So just finding that organization or a, you know, group doesn't have to be an organization, could be a community group.

That's oftentimes the folks at organize with who are really, you know, have some of the issues that you may be dealing with impacted by want to see change in starting there.

And that's building relationships with your neighbors, I think is really critical.

And in in in this work because, you know, you may identify issue amongst yourselves that you can then, you know, begin you know, build up in the community and see if other folks are impacted by.

So I think relationship building is key in and showing up in those communal spaces where folks are is key to getting well and briefly, where is that town square now that people can go to, let's > > let's am trying to find somewhere in a in a pinch here in my going to the local church in my going on Facebook, what am I where is it was a good quay.

We're way if I got some pressure on you and I'm trying to pinch, you hear Kerry to try to figure out what we do know this because it all issue of social > > of course, Ali, that, you know, I don't fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, that's times where you go to find > > out what's happening in your community.

> > I am, you know, looking to be more of a support in relationship to the communities, defense ice ice raids that have been happening in New Haven in.

> > I found online that there is the New Haven Immigrant Coalition that is where King to, you know, buildup, community defense against what's You know, so that is one way on, you know, you think on your own, Michael have got to get to Hari for the last 30 seconds here.

Any advice that you have for somebody?

> > And just that I think right now we have up how people feel like politics, the spectacle of that that is invited to consume.

And I think people have really good instincts about when you're being invited into a space.

That's not just going to be a spectacle, whether it's online or offline.

I think I would say trust or got like people you're being invited into a place where people want to engage with us and to clays human.

Those tend to be the places that are most effective.

> > Trust your instincts, people.

That's Hari Hein, professor of political Johns Hopkins University and Connecticut based community organizer.

Kerry thank you so much for what you've done.

Reminder to folks out there.

We do have the Wheelhouse.

Live tickets going on sale soon.

Ct public Dot org slash Frankie, as we announced public Dot org slash Frankie, go there today.

Show produced by Chloe win tally and these along it was edited by Patrick Scahill.

Thank you so much, Dylan race and everybody else.

This is the Wheelhouse.

Thank you so much for listening.

♪