>> Thousands of people who work for the U.S. agency charged with delivering humanitarian assistance overseas are currently in limbo.

This as the administration plans to shut down thousands of programs and cut the number of U.S. a I D workers from over 10,000 to just 290 senior officials have been put on leave while thousands of contractors have been laid off.

It's part of President Trump's effort to improve government efficiency and minimize spending.

But a federal judge has temporarily blocked the administration's plans to place.

2200 workers on paid leave.

Joining us now, our Catherine Bertini, distinguished fellow at the Chicago Council on Global Affairs.

And Ted Dabrowski, president of Wire points.

A nonprofit focused on research of Illinois's economy and government.

Thanks to both for joining us.

Thank Catherine Bertini starting with you.

Please first, give us a sense of what you say.

It does.

>> Well, us ad is the most influential agency around the world in terms of providing.

Priorities and assistance for people who are in great need, especially what's called the global Developing countries.

And it's the way that America uses its soft power, which is say not military, not intelligence, but its assistance to help those in need that really carries the U.S. a long way in terms of its reputation globally.

>> Tell me more about that.

About soft power why the U.S. exercises that will be paid with us started decades ago, for instance, after World War, One Herbert Hoover an effort in Europe to help feed people because there were so many people that no housing, no food, nothing.

And then after Wilbur to the Marshall Plan did same kind of thing throughout Europe where the U.S. was funding programs to help people who are destitute because of the war.

Also, there were big programs in Japan to help people that were there.

So the U.S. started before President Kennedy created U.S. a I D a lot of support from people around the world who are appreciated appreciating that the U.S. cared enough to try to rebuild and to try to support people who are hungry and in need.

>> Ted, a president has claimed that USA ID is engulfed an unspecified fraud and corruption.

Do you think there are issues with the agency?

>> I think see the I think we've heard a lot of news about how that money is being spent.

And of course, I'm not privy to what's actually happening, but you see a lot of money that they say is being spent on all kinds of initiatives.

But the supporting some of the media Mike to oppose what they have been stationed stands for.

You're seeing a lot of money being spent on programs that dei related.

So there's a lot of things that that I think.

the president or mosque or some of the people.

Elected Trump in office would find offensive or not proper.

And, you know, God knows how much that is.

I think really what this is about, in my opinion is this is, you know, the governor going where that money is being spent, whether they like what's being spent and could be done more efficiently and I think that's what the public deserves to know, especially when we've got over 36 trillion dollars in deficit.

We 150 billion dollars and and Medicare and Social Security debts.

We need to be think about how we spend our money.

And I think right now nobody has any idea how our government spends money.

Second spends a lot.

It's one thing to sort of line by line go through, you know what is being spent and where.

But why eliminate the agency in one fell swoop versus.

>> Gradually shutting it down and maybe being less disruptive?

Well, I used to be under the State Department, which is where they're trying to put it again now so that it was there before returning to where belong.

I think hardship.

I was thinking about how how to think about this thing because understanding of that the big federal government spends money is hard.

I was thinking about this Illinois terms, Chicago public schools and you've got the big union.

You get the the not the union got the big.

>> Cps.

Nobody can stop how they spend money.

They did the union strikes every few years.

They spend billions more all the time.

Results are worse.

Kids leave and nobody can stop.

What's happening.

And so this is I think why Trump is doing that because unless you take a really strong stance, you can't figure out how to stop the government from growing growing growing and spending money were doesn't fortune spent.

>> Except that it doesn't necessarily apply to USA ID.

It's not growing growing growing.

It's appropriate to the budget is appropriated by Congress every year.

And in fact, it's never kept up with the number number of people who are really needs.

That's one reason why it has so many contractors, both Americans and and people overseas who actually work for ad.

I think now that there's a pause that to which you referred earlier.

It's time to look at what really does U.S. and the billions of dollars, not the not the.

2 million dollars here.

2 million dollars.

billions of dollars that U.S. aid uses too, keep people alive because it's ending hunger sending food to the World Food Program.

The world's premier food aid agency.

It's ending assistance to UNICEF who it helps keep babies alive and keeps mothers being able to take care of their their infants and their young children, both of these agencies, by the way, WFP and and UNICEF.

We're we're highlighted and and supported by Elise Stefanik, congresswoman, who has been nominated by the president to be the UN investor and during her confirmation hearing this.

during her confirmation hearing, she said how good these organizations are, how well they meet objectives will manages the inputs to those organizations.

U.S. A I D and then USAID is the one that sends literally billions of dollars.

>> I might just add, I think there's a lot of problems that, of course, will survive as a lot of really good programs that that need to exist.

I think the question is, do they all need to exist?

The other is can be done efficiently under other existing bureaucracy is because we have a lot of Iraq season.

I think that's the big question.

How big and how many people do we have doing work on all kinds of things where we don't know how many spent in this also mission creep as well where used to be the other side didn't like the the cultural imperialism of USA ID you're talking about.

You're back in the now.

That what other side the Democrats today.

It's the Republicans.

>> not true.

Republicans inrix both support U.S. a I D and it had bipartisan support for for But I think I think there are many claims that is being used.

To invade the Republic's are being using it to influence other countries.

And in cultural way.

So but what the point is is that I don't think anybody's been that happy with idea overtime.

And the question is, can we keep the could program that you mentioned that are critical without having the bureaucracy to the There's also that the method by which all of this is going down because there's a lot of controversy about Elon Musk and his role in Trump's administration.

Of course, that, you know, it is the president's prerogative to choose its advisors, but >> and I'm guessing you, the world's richest man is probably working for free.

But is there not any danger concern about the world's richest man, Ted, sort dabbling in American government making decisions like this?

We had he's he's an amazing guy, right?

He's a guy that created Tesla created Space X.

>> And if you know any of the story there, you know, he's been amazing managing cost, you know, car companies can profit like until he came along.

He's created electric car company massively profitable in big.

He knows how to cut knows how to do things efficiently.

people are trusting for that.

I think the question should be asked is our most bureaucrats.

When government are they able to control cost?

Are they able really think in this way?

had a government that refuses control spending, right?

We have another 2 trillion dollar deficit again.

They refuse control spending.

So who do we count on to control?

that's right.

That's what people are looking us because nobody else is doing it.

But the way to control it is not.

>> Let's get rid of this whole thing.

but we forgot we still have a few people that we forgot.

We still have to take care of We still have to do this right now.

pause pause.

I think the administration could would be smart to look at what do they want to achieve that U.S. a I D what programs do they want to keep it it.

If these other programs, some of these decided they don't want to keep.

That's that's a different issue rather than throw throw everything before we run out of time because there's also the domestic impact of closing USA ID Chicago's headquarters.

Also multiple international aid organizations like Rotary Lions Club, others, for example.

>> Catherine, tell us a little bit more.

What is the local and the national impact here?

Sure.

Well, there was just an announcement at the University of Illinois Champaign that they had to lay off 30 people.

>> Because they work for program is funded by U.S. ad.

It's it's a program to support the sort support the soybean industry, both in the U.S. and throughout the world to develop markets for soybeans.

miss U.S. A I D and they get a cease and desist order and and they got laid off and also when people are coming back home, people from Illinois who work for us.

all of a sudden, boom, you have to come back home.

Sorry couple has to come back.

The kids are yanked out of school and in February they come back to what they made have a house, but it's rented so they don't have a salary and they don't have a place to live.

And it's just because this decision was made without any space for movement in for a transition.

>> Ted dissolving USA ID.

It's it's just one part of the president's plan to to stop overspending.

Could something like this be replicated in Illinois?

Do you think?

I think it absolutely is absolutely needed that we have the worst credit rating in the country and Illinois.

Chicago's in the deep mask and nobody knows how to stop stop.

He said a costume going up.

>> I think we have to remember too, all these this money that we take to spend other countries.

remember that we have massive debts in Illinois and though in the country that the only way to get paid back as he threw massive tax increases or massive inflation and that always hurts the little guy.

And we can keep thinking about how we spend money elsewhere.

But we're forgetting about our very own people and all the stats are extremely dangerous to