From WXXI news.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Well, our connection this hour will be made on June 17th when Rochester City Council votes on a 2526 Rochester City School District budget.

And according to reporting from WXXI, Noelle Evans.

The district is facing another budget season with a shortfall.

The gap, as Evans reports, is expected to be nearly three times higher than a year ago.

Part of the reason for the shortfall is due to Arpa funding ending and then pandemic relief dollars have expired.

Our Ccsd interim superintendent, Dr. Mario Strickland, told Noelle Evans that staff pay increases are also to blame.

He said compensation is rising 3 to 4%.

The projected gap is $38 million.

School board members have different opinions about the proposed budget and what to prioritize.

We hope to talk to them about this in the coming weeks.

And in the meantime, what do parents and child advocacy experts think about all this?

Well, the Children's Agenda is helping to answer that question.

The nonprofit is going to host an event this evening where attendees can discuss their priorities for Rochester, as a school district spends how it prioritizes its budget.

It's in advance of tomorrow's traditional budget hearing, hosted by the district.

This hour, we preview the Children's Agenda event and we welcome your ideas about this too.

Let me welcome to the studio.

Eamon Scanlon is director of community impact at Children's Agenda.

Welcome back to the program.

Thank you for being here, Eamon.

Thanks for having me, Evan.

Next to Eamon is Angela Colon Renters, who is a credentialed peer advocate, a senior youth and young adult peer service navigator for Bipoc peak.

She's an artist and a member of the very Invested Parents group at the Children's Agenda.

Welcome.

Thank you for being with us.

Thank you for the opportunity.

And Isabelle Rosa is with us, a parent of two PhD students, as is Angela.

Isabella is Isabelle is a community and parent advocacy coordinator at the Children's Agenda.

Thank you for being here as well.

Thank you for having us.

And I want to mention the event tonight is 6:30 a.m. and Scanlon on Zoom.

Yes, 630 on zoom.

And if you go to our website, The Children's agenda.org, you can register right there and get the link.

And so they're not going to require you to try to read through every page of a proposed budget.

That's Heyman's job.

But but let me start with this.

What is what's the headline as as we look at a very big set of questions and priorities for the district.

What stands out to you is is the most important headline here.

I think the most important headline, you know, like you you teased in the opening was that Arpa is over.

So we don't have those additional federal dollars and they're not coming back.

That was a really a one time thing.

But, we do have a ton of additional state dollars we have for foundation aid funding.

so even though there was a gap that had to be addressed, and the district is addressing that through its, savings account, through its fund balance, there's a lot of continuity in this budget, and we just want to make sure that some of the good things that the district are doing continue.

And we'll talk a little bit more about them.

But I think it's there's nothing alarming.

There's nothing at no huge changes in the budget.

And in some ways that's a good thing.

And, and I want to say as well as we talk about the various aspects of this budget, that or a proposed budget, different issues that the district has to cover.

I know that there's a lot of people hurting in this community and members of the community really struggling after the death of a student, at Sota.

And in respect to that student's family.

We're not going to be talking about that tragedy directly.

We're going to talk about broader themes related to mental health care and what the district's budget can do to support it.

We have tried to report on that issue directly, but sensitively and appropriately, and I invite listeners to check out Sky news.org and see some of the coverage there.

But this is not an hour about that particular subject that is in the backdrop.

And I know it's on people's minds, but but mental health is a big part of what's on people's mind and how it's funded, whether it's funded properly, whether it's addressed appropriately, how close to hitting the mark are we with that aim?

And in your view, and how are we doing with that?

I would say the district is doing a great job, and it's important to back up and say it's not entirely the school district's responsibility to tackle mental health.

This is a much broader, issue that the whole community needs to be working on in the state.

But the school plays a unique role because, it cuts down barriers to access, because a child can visit right there.

If you have clinical care on site and, you spend a lot of time at school, there are trusted adults there that you can form those relationships with.

And, of course, there's a lot of ways that just being at school can impact your mental health in a negative way.

So getting ahead of that as well.

But in the in the broader scheme, there are a ton of additional supports being scaled up through school based mental health clinics.

So that puts health care providers of mental health right in the schools.

and it's a relatively affordable and easy thing to to do that can become sustainable through the billing of insurance.

And there's existing support through the school based health centers, that also have to have, therapists on site.

And a third, pillar to this is telehealth, which isn't really being utilized as much for, mental health supports, but they're exploring ways to do that within the district.

And that's even easier to scale to all buildings.

So there's a number of ways to come at this.

And then there's just the school climate work that's been going on.

there are other, extracurricular extracurricular supports that are being added.

And we want to put a focus on that because that's usually the first thing to be cut.

but there are all these other ways that you can engage kids.

and the district is doing a good job, but there's always a worry because of budget cuts, that those things are the first to to be on the table.

And I think it's really hard to measure how we're doing with mental health.

I mean, there's a lot of different reasons that kids or families might be struggling.

from issues like clinical depression to some really significant trauma and challenges of life.

Going back, yes, to the pandemic, but not only the pandemic.

and so there are questions about do we have enough staffing and and counseling support and support on campus.

There are questions about approached during the school day.

I mean, you see, Governor Hochul is now, following the footsteps of a number of other governors across the state, Republican and Democrat, in which she wants to eliminate mobile phone access, bell to Bell.

Not not only no screens are cell phones in the classroom, but not in your locker.

Just not having it in school at all.

And she points directly to mental health with that.

I mean, those are the kinds of interventions you want to see.

Or do you think that that's a little far afield?

It's not far afield.

And again, mental health is it can be affected in so many ways and you can support and, you know, ameliorate those problems in so many ways.

So it shouldn't be an either or.

It's a it's a both.

And and we are supportive of some form of restriction on cell phone use.

But we also want to be sensitive to, you know, parent and student need and not have that, fuel something that we're also going to talk about today, which is the crisis of exclusionary discipline.

So if you're going to solve one problem, let's not create another by kicking a bunch of kids out of school for using cell phones.

yeah.

So, before we get to discipline, and I think Damon's right.

I mean, all of this ties together.

We will have a separate conversation on this program about the governor's proposal, about the bell to bell ban of cell phones, but looking at what other states are doing.

And I want to try.

I do want to try when we eventually have that conversation to really understand people on all sides, because I know there are parents who feel pretty strongly that I need to get Ahold of my kid in emergency.

I need them to be able to get Ahold of me in emergency.

I don't want to build a Bell ban on cell phones.

I know there's other parents who feel very strongly that that would be a good idea.

There's probably teachers on both sides.

So listeners, if if you've got strong feelings on that, send us a note at connections, a cyborg connections at cyborg.

We're trying to build a fair and thoughtful discussion for a future conversation on that.

Let me ask Amy's Co-Panelists a little bit about how they've gotten more involved with the work in the district, and then we're going to kind of go a little deeper on some of these issues that has been talking about.

and, Isabel, let me start with you.

Your kids are 12 and 17.

Yes.

And our Ccsd students.

when did you decide that you wanted to be working with the Children's Agenda and doing this kind of advocacy work?

a couple of years ago, pretty much, I've been doing advocacy and organizing for quite some time, and I really wanted to narrow it down to children and young people.

so it's been a few years that I decided to get involved.

And then, of course, once I got involved, the level of involvement, became more so, like, I was really able to speak to school board members, speak to community, share some of my own lived experiences with challenges and even solutions.

for my children in the district.

And, I also have, 29 year old son who's a graduate of the district, and he also graduated from Brockport.

So we have a little bit more experience, with the district, a little longer experience.

How have your kids done there?

How are your 12 and 17 year olds doing there?

Now?

It's a little different.

It is a little different, from when the 29 year old was in school.

I can say time in a way.

I think the world is a little more chaotic, and I find myself, talking more to my children about issues, that they see on TV or hear and also intervening.

Right.

we were just having the conversation about cell phones.

You know, as a parent, I have to know when to intervene and when to, be a mom and be a parent, and kind of have that healthy conversation with them about all and everything that's going on.

And plus it's to the 29 year old that was just the one.

So maybe that might be a little overwhelming.

How do you feel about cell phones in schools?

You know, I, I don't think they should be banned, but I do think there should be a level of control and.

You know, I'm from the generation also where, you know, we didn't have cell phones and we didn't really communicate with mom and dad for hours and hours until they got home from work.

so I understand.

And I also, as a parent, I think it's important, we're in school to concentrate on education.

We're in school to concentrate on healthiness and and learning.

And sometimes cell phones can be interrupt.

You know, they can definitely be disruptive to your kids.

I mean, I want to I'm just more curious to know what the kinds of conversations you have.

Do you have conversations about mental health, about how kids are to how their peers are doing, about what resources are there?

yes.

I need to start having more conversations about resources.

we do.

I always try to approach conversations with kind of a solution.

Every type of, you know, and a healthy type of, of conversation, it has been challenging.

and it has it's a you're right.

I don't remember having these conversations with the older one versus the younger one.

And the reasons the younger ones, bring it up is because they actually have friends, who've identified, like having, you know, maybe depression or anxiety.

And so they come home with questions, about that.

Not not like, like really technical questions, but it's on their mind and they want to know.

And I as a parent we need to have those conversations.

So since you've gotten involved, what what is at the top of your list for what you think the district needs to focus on more of or do a better job of, or maybe prioritize with it's budgeting?

For me, it's there's a few things, but one of them would be school climate.

as the mother of two young men and the district, I would like to know that my child is embraced and understood.

and so we do.

We do try to like.

Advocate I try to I there's no try.

I do advocate on behalf of my children when needed.

When I don't feel that they're embraced or understood.

Discipline in needs to change.

Can you tell me a little bit more when you say your concern that time, at times your kids may be misunderstood in school?

What do you mean by that?

Well, you know, they're they're two young men, and, young men's brain development could be all over the place, and they can make silly decisions and do silly things, and at the same time, they're growing.

So we need to make sure we're planting the right seeds.

I need to make sure that, he is surrounded by adults.

They are surrounded by adults that understand this.

and so that's what I mean.

Okay.

And then is that also related to how discipline or reaction may be to certain behaviors?

Yeah, definitely.

Definitely.

you know, I, I truly believe and I think it's safe to say we believe as parents here at the Children Agenda that suspensions are outdated.

They just don't work.

They interfere with learning.

The notion of suspending students at all, you think is is outdated.

Yes, yes.

Okay.

There's certainly other solutions to disciplining our children.

I think if it's really severe, severe, then that's a whole conversation that needs to be had.

Violence, for example.

yeah.

Yeah.

Violence and certain violence.

Again, I have boys and you know, one day we were going to school and we were waiting for the bell to ring, and the two brothers decided to have a little rumble right before the bell rang.

They're wrestling.

They're wrestling.

They were doing the whole this the whole spectacle and and literally right before the bell rang and there was parents around, and there was a couple teachers around, and the bell rang and the door open and all the kids ran in, and my two boys just kind of got up and they dusted each other off and themselves.

And they looked at me and I looked at them and they went in.

I looked at the parents, I looked at the teachers, and we kind of just knew, okay, let's continue on with the day.

Now, that might be a bad example, but I wanted to share that because these are that's not violence to a degree where, you know, they should be suspended, certainly maybe brought to their attention, you know, have a conversation with them, maybe, you know, take away, something that's, extra for them, a privilege for them in school, but certainly not suspension.

Okay.

We're going to talk in a moment more with Eamon Scanlon as well about some of what some of the data says about suspension and about some of the more of what the children's agenda is working toward.

let me, let me bring in Angela to the conversation.

Angela Cullen, rent us as a parent of a five and a two year old.

and Angela is a credential peer advocate, senior youth and young adult peer service navigator for Bipoc peak, an artist and a member of the very Invested Parents group at the Children's Agenda.

When did you get involved?

Why did you get involved with this?

well, I got involved technically.

Officially, this year, but I did visit last year a few times when they were coming up with the priorities of the budget.

and I had a lot going on at that time.

So I decided to take a step back and come in when I'm fully committed.

So, Yeah, at the beginning of this year, it was on my mind, and I did.

And I am actually grateful and honored, to be part of this group as, a very invested parent.

You get a five and a two year old, you're going to have a lot going on for a long time.

I do know how you do.

And here you are doing this kind of work and what's what's at the top of your list of what you want to see the district doing?

well, there's a few things, but I would say the the first thing is resources.

I believe that the Rochester City School District is a pin point for all parents, because it is mandatory to have our youth in school.

So having the availability and access accessibility to resources so it it doesn't matter if the resources are, not always educational, in some sense, because I know schools are a place to learn.

But having the resources for mental health wraparound services, even like opportunities for community based, programing, so having that that space and the opportunity to, you know, have what is it, go to school or even call someone that's going to answer and have resources, say I need help, but in a matter that you're not being, stigmatized or it's shameful.

do you think the district is amenable to these ideas?

Are you comfortable that the district is listening to parents?

I believe they listen to some certain extent.

I would say that we are in an emergency right now.

so having them listening to the parents go through the situations, who have the barriers like, this is what we need.

This is what we're looking for.

we're screaming to you, this is what we want.

it should be, you know, that they should listen to us.

Okay.

and do you now feel like your involvement can make a difference in part of what we've talked to the Children's Agenda and other groups that do parent advocacy about for years is this idea that parents feel like the district is a million miles away, and I'm not going to have a voice here.

Do you feel like you have a voice?

Absolutely.

well, as a peer professional, I, I've been advocating on a state level already, so I understand in, in, the importance of advocacy when it comes down to, to raising your voice for the voiceless.

So when it came down to advocate advocacy, advocacy, what is it advocating?

Advocating.

So I my Spanish.

so, it came down to advocating for our children.

I was like, it's time.

Like my daughter is a kindergartner now.

Like, I want to know what's going on in the school, in the city school district.

I want to be able to use my expertise and my strengths to the best ability to actually ensure that the future of all of our students, are in good hands and and that I can leave and say, you know, I feel that my daughter is going to be safe in a safe school and a safe community.

Do you feel right now no daughter's in a safe school?

No.

in the school, I would say, you know, she's a kindergarten teacher.

There's more there.

Okay.

Wraparound services in some sense.

But, I believe that there's no, support, that there could be more support for all our children.

So you're concerned about when she gets older?

Yes.

Okay.

I should ask, by the way, I should ask Isabel that same question.

Generally.

Do you think your kids are safe at school?

I do, but I think they could be safer.

Okay.

And that debate, by the way, about what to do about that.

We have board members who've been on this program on very different perspectives here.

I don't want to Ammon's not I mean, you've heard it and and I don't want to name names because I don't speak for any board members.

If I would even slightly misrepresent a position.

But I will say generally there's at least one, maybe multiple members of the board who feel like what you're describing with your boys, you know, they're wrestling before class.

You understand they're kind of roughhousing.

Their boys are kind of getting it out.

They're not trying to hurt anybody.

Suspension is not a good idea here.

there are, people have expressed on this program in recent years.

We need to go the other way.

We need to say we are going to be no tolerance to any kind of violence, any kind of hands on hand, hands on kids.

And that is what we'll clean up school.

So that's what's going to make parents feel safer to send kids.

That's what's going to make students be able to learn better in class.

What would you say to that as well?

I think that's a perfectly, fine way to feel.

I just don't think that suspensions are the solutions.

I think that if there is something like violence or, you know, behaviors, there needs to be creative ways, and creative solutions restore to practices.

relationship building, meetings with parents and supportive adults.

I certainly think that there should be some type of consequence to behaviors if they're not appropriate.

but I don't think it should be suspensions.

Okay.

And, you know, Angela, your kids are younger, but how do you feel about that?

What the.

No hands on.

I mean, yeah, like the no tolerance idea toward anything that's physical.

I don't know.

I would say, like, it's it's a I have to think about it in some sense, you know, physical means, receiving a hug.

So it's not always, you know, violence.

I would say, like, if someone needs to be embraced or hugged, I guess if it's playing around in the school, like in the middle of the classroom or anything like that, then no, it shouldn't be tolerated, in the classrooms.

But if they're moving from class to class, you know, like they they could have a little fun in between because it's stressful.

You just got out of class where you're overwhelmed and all that stuff.

You just need a little, with your friends if they feel okay with it.

Because the other person must be respected as well.

so it's like, I don't have a clear answer for that.

I'm looking at a set of charts here, and Eamon Scanlon from the Children's Agenda may ask you some general questions.

Then let's talk about data.

Generally speaking, is it the children's agendas, the children's agendas position that suspension as a tool has been used in racist fashion?

In discriminatory fashion?

Yes.

I wouldn't say it's an opinion.

I think there are there are studies to back that up.

It's a national phenomenon and it's a consistent in the data.

So we can dig into the numbers.

But you'll see students of different races suspended more harshly for the same behavior.

So it's not just and I think the the other side of this would think, oh, well, those kids just act out more and that's why they're getting suspended more.

But we have evidence that this is because there is different perceptions of activity that is seen as more aggressive.

And there's just bias, towards certain populations of students.

So looking at some of what the children's agenda has compiled here, the Rochester City School District has one of the highest suspension rates in New York State, 17% overall, but it breaks down in different ways.

Here, 22.5% of black students were suspended in what looks to me like the latest full year of data.

2223 Eamon, we do have update and I should have give you for that for the last report.

But it is it hasn't changed much and so I think it's fine.

So there's still a disparity.

So here's the disparity.

22.5% of black students suspended in a school year.

9% of white students, 21.7% of students with a disability were suspended at least once in a school year.

16% of the general population or general education students.

So those numbers on their own.

I want to stress a point that I heard you make make sure that I heard it correctly.

Your argument is when you've got students who have committed the same quote unquote offense or same action, the white student tends to be treated more leniently.

Is that what you're saying?

Yeah, yeah.

And you'll see this.

It's different across different communities.

You know some of the the biggest bias is often in the suburbs.

And I want to, you know, not just make this about the district, but you'll see 5 to 1 or 6 to 1, proportional suspensions for black to white students.

Right.

Like that is not, not a behavior issue.

That's a bias issue.

And, and we see this consistent across all districts across the country.

and there again, there are studies to show that it is there are behaviors that are, the same, but then the consequences are more harsh.

And it can be the, the biases of the people doing it, the perceptions.

And with kids with disabilities, there are often, issues that may be a consequence of the child's disability or their needs.

And when those are not being met or those are not well understood, that behavior can lead to suspensions when it should be lead to specific supports, for their their disability.

In this proposed budget, the school district says that 100% of schools will implement restorative practices with fidelity, that the district will reduce the percentage of overall out of school suspensions by about half to less than 8.5%.

The district will reduce the current chronic absenteeism rate by 25%, and at least 75% of district students will participate in annual student surveys.

what do you make of those ideas?

I think those are those are good priorities.

I think I'd like to see mental health be a little bit higher up in terms of what they're focusing on, but I do think that that they are focused.

And there is a lot of great work happening on school climate, and it's unfortunate that we haven't seen, a bigger dent in the numbers after Covid.

the numbers exploded and they were very high, and particularly long term suspensions got really out of control in the district.

Those are coming down.

But we are basically still a little bit above, based on the most recent data, pre-pandemic levels of suspensions.

So we're not really solving the problem.

we're we're just kind of managing it, and it's going to take a more aggressive approach.

It's going to take more buy in.

And when I say aggressive approach, I mean aggressive approach to the alternatives, right?

Not the sort of zero tolerance policy, but really, assuring there's accountability and buy in at the school level and the principal level, because you can design a great program.

But if we don't win the hearts and minds of the people implementing these things, they just don't really change.

And, we have to we have to really make this, a central piece of, education because it's not just an added program.

You cannot push out thousands of kids every year.

It's not going to work.

You're not going to get, the graduation rates, the academics that you want.

If you keep doing that.

So your recommendations, I'm going to read five of them.

If we couldn't talk about those here, 14 Rock Restorative coaches.

Every school has at least one help zone.

Middle schools will have two help zones.

Edison Tech High School would have four help zones.

Other high schools would have two help zones.

what is a help zone?

So I help since just an alternative to suspension room.

It's it's like a branded name for one of those, that the center for youth runs.

And, it's a place where rather than saying you would go to in-school suspension.

Right.

You just sort of sit there, maybe you get some work, maybe you don't help zone.

It's like you talk to somebody about what happened, you cool down.

you sort of regulate and understand the behavior, and then you should be, once that's all taken care of, be able to go back to class.

So it's about addressing what's going on with the student versus, just sort of warehousing them until some predetermined time.

They're allowed to come back.

Who staffs the help zone.

So that that would be, you know, usually it's, like sort of a paraprofessional or somebody through the center for youth that they hire that's trained to do that.

and it, you know, the quality can vary.

but it would be somebody that has the specific training to have an approach that's not just I'm bringing in a kid and then I'm kicking him out like, I, I'm going to have them recognize the behavior, understand any solutions that we can have going forward.

I mean, it's been some time since I was in school, but I do remember the idea of in-school suspension rooms just being these nothing happening.

I mean, and you're smiling over there, like just sitting there.

No one's getting any instruction.

It's just the day is passing.

Yeah, nothing is being addressed.

And so part of what, I understand the help zone is, is a is a way of saying what actually happened and what can we do about that?

So we can get you back on the road to education sooner, right?

I mean, I understand where you had a pretty strong reaction to thinking back to those suspension rooms.

Not a fan.

Well, I never went to one of them myself, but, I mean, even Angela seeing them, they seem so, so bleak and so sad and so just, they will fall asleep all day, you know, with their head on the desk and nothing happens.

That's my.

And in the staff would be sitting there doing what they were doing.

Yeah, that's my recollection too.

And I don't know what is gained from that.

I mean, I don't know why that is suitable, but let me try this at a different angle here to I, I'll probably get an email from a teacher or retired teacher who will say okay, but that helps don't exist.

And we're going to try to actively work with kids who have been, you know, in school suspended or might have been suspended.

Now they're going to the help zone.

what if it does get physical?

can they handle it?

Is there staff to handle it?

What do you think, Eamon?

Yeah, I don't think the staffing is that different between an ES room and helps on.

It's the training of the staff.

So you know it's just one person in a room usually versus a different person in a room.

Okay.

but it's about what is that again like we are talking about how the rooms can look really bleak.

Why does it have to be this, like, bleak, prison like atmosphere?

Why can't it be a place that's calming?

A place where a student could, you know, punch a bag if they needed to get some of that aggression or energy out or bounce on a if younger kids.

You know, I've seen calm down rooms where they bounce on a small trampoline or like, you know, because sometimes kids are just agitated because they have a lot of energy, because they're dealing with something at home, because they're just hungry or they need some need met.

so rather than like figuring that out and getting the kids in a good headspace, you just have this bleak room where you're supposed to sit and not not say anything and not do anything.

Angela, what do you make of this proposal?

the, restorative.

I would say that this is a great opportunity to bring in, pure professionals, you know, credentialed peer advocates, youth peer advocates, family peer advocates, they're trained, trauma informed, trained in, culturally responsible.

So in that sense, it has a person who could, I guess, like, understand in some sense, what are you going through it?

And they're trained in order to, like, bring you down, regulate you motivational interviewing.

And just like, give you a time to just be you, give you some guidance because we're not trying to fix anyone, but some guidance on how to move forward in having that space rather than just being there all day.

give it an hour of actual communication and regulation, then I would believe that would be a better, much better idea than what we have now.

Someone like you, a credentialed peer advocate.

Correct?

Okay.

And this is the kind of work that you feel like you can make a difference with kids on.

Yes.

And a and I know we can like, just having we come from the same community and we've been in the same, similar situations.

I would say, and we have that training when it comes down to being, culturally informed and we understand aces, the adverse childhood experiences.

So having that training, like we need people who are trained, to be unbiased into what is it to, to support rather than try to fix Amazon sense.

Because when we're looking when we when we're being looked at like we need some fixing, then we automatically shut down in some sense, at least me.

So if you come with me with an open ended question with an open arm in understanding demeanor or voice, you know, tone, where I am not being the the really the culprit, in that sense of looking at it like, why are you this way more of what happened?

how can I support Isabelle?

How does this proposal hit you?

What do you think I agree, I agree, with Angela, I agree with Ayman.

It could also be a space where you get, you know, even the opposite.

nourishment for the for the children.

Love.

support in a way where we all assume you get from home, and maybe you don't.

You know, I love on my boys all day long.

I hug them, I and I, and they know that.

But not all children get that.

So maybe if they go to a room, maybe they're, acting out and behaving certain ways because they're lacking that.

So I think, what Ahmed said and what Angela said were great and I think, you know, would also be a space where you could find out, okay, this child just need someone to talk to, maybe a hug, maybe a healthy conversation, maybe some encouragement.

well, after we take our only break, I want to come back and ask him a little bit more about some of the things that we mentioned off the top here, which is that this is a district, the Rochester City School District, as it prepares its next budget that has a bigger shortfall, a bigger gap then, it has in recent years, $38 million.

And some of the comments from the interim superintendent indicate, you know, there's multiple reasons for that.

But I don't know if that's any foreshadowing about what the district can or can't do about some of these matters.

So we're going to talk a little bit more about that.

And I just want to remind you that there's an event tonight that the Children's Agenda would be happy to have you be part of.

It starts at 630 and it's on zoom.

So, you know, you can attend from wherever you like.

you can hear about the proposed budget for the upcoming school year.

You can share ideas that you have, and we'll post a link to register on the episode page on our show notes here if you want to check it out.

That's at 630 tonight via zoom.

We're coming right back with them next.

Coming up in our second hour, the largest landfill in New York State is located in the Finger Lakes, and the owners of the landfill want to expand it for 15 more years.

This was supposed to be it.

They were supposed to be at capacity in 2025, but now they're asking for a big extension.

So what happens next?

We're going to talk to the town supervisor.

We'll talk to people who have opposed the project.

It's all coming up next.

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This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson, so as the Rochester City School District prepares its next budget, I want to say again that, my colleague Noel Evans from WXXI news has been reporting on this and the interim superintendent, Demario Strickland, for CSD told I told Noel Evans that staff pay increases are partially to blame.

Compensation is up 3 to 4%.

There are, there's a shortfall due to Arpa funding ending.

All told, we end up with a $38 million gap and in some of my experience indicates Aymond Scanlon, that when government is telling you that they've got a gap, they're warning you don't ask for too much here.

Things are already tight, but there's some nuance here.

What do you want people to understand about that number?

Yeah.

Well, and to your point, I want to encourage anybody who talks to government.

Yes, they will always tell you, oh, it's a tough year.

You know, it's it's always a tough year apparently.

and there is some reality to, to that of course.

but in the, in the scope of all the years I have covered the budget, this number, it's not great, but it's smaller than kind of the pre-COVID numbers that I've used to see.

We used to have like 60, $70 million gaps, and that was with a much smaller, well, not a much, but a smaller budget.

Right.

The budgets increased.

So the percentage, on the margins of this is, is less consequential than it used to be.

And, there are things that can happen, to address this because those numbers are if, if nothing changed and things are changing, enrollment is going down, positions are shifting, programs are ending.

There's already the, the likelihood a school will close, because of declining enrollment.

and that's, that's really the reason for most of these budget gaps.

It is the increase in costs that is real.

but it is also the fact that the students, the population is, is shrinking.

And so there's less money attached to less kids.

So some of the proposals, some of your ideas you think are doable, you can fund 15 Rock restorative coaches, budget $5 million to contract with outside agencies to provide additional professional development and trainings for students and parents.

On the subject of restorative practices.

Do you think that's doable?

Yeah.

And it's it's, essentially very close to the numbers that the district has now.

So a lot of this is and I want to give the district credit that we've advocate on these issues for a number of years.

They've scaled up based on our recommendations, and we want to continue that.

And we don't want to see Clawbacks.

so this isn't a huge jump from where they are now.

It's, kind of a small increase and also just continuing that support.

And they totally can do it.

It's totally within their realm.

and I'd also like to point out the district has a huge amount of reserves of savings right now.

And, that's not money you want to pull from every year, but it is something that you can use when you're transitioning and you're trying to figure some things out.

it's not like a few years ago, the big scandal back in 2020, you know, they have hundreds of millions of dollars.

They're sitting on.

and so there's a little bit of flexibility around the edges, around the things you want to support.

Let me get a couple of, comments from listeners.

Tom says, Evan, you talked about suspension data.

What is the data that shows restorative practices works?

Eamon, is there is there good data on restorative practices?

Yeah, I mean, there's there's been a big comprehensive review and study of restorative practices to show the improvements that it does.

And reducing suspensions and improving relationships in school climate.

I will say the one research gap, or I wouldn't say gap at the thing that we don't see is the closing of those disparities.

So, when it comes to kids being suspended, it's very hard to address the internal and the, structural biases that affect kids.

But a way to get around that is simply to put restrictions on suspensions.

Right.

It's very hard to stop, people from being biased, but we can stop them from using bias tools.

And that's why making suspension of Last Resort is one of the best policy options.

By the way, before I get our next email, do you get the sense, Eamon, that ten years ago the reaction from principals school administrations would be different to what you just said than it is now?

In other words, are are more administrations buying into the idea that we don't have to suspend as much?

That's a great question.

I think that it's I think there are more folks that are bought in, but we have gone through so much external events that have upended school life that I think that there was a time, even a few years ago that this was getting more attention.

And now we keep, you know, shifting like we're talking about cell phones, we're talking about other things.

And, there's a little bit of an exhaustion factor, I think almost.

And we have to reacquaint and remind ourselves, oh, no, this problem didn't go away.

There are still hundreds of thousands of kids being suspended in New York every year.

And we're not legislatively or locally through our policies, doing the things to address it.

So this is a problem that I think there there's a lot of support, but we don't have enough action.

Jillian writes in to say you mentioned foundation aid.

What is that?

Yeah, that's a great I always I'm always like, should I even see the name?

Well I know, but but it is the name.

So that's that's just state aid.

for schools that is the biggest pot.

There are other pots, but it's, a huge amount of money that, billions of dollars given out to schools based on their enrollment, based on their student need.

And it's supposed to make up for the fact that if you live in downtown Rochester versus, Pittsford in the village, there's huge differences in property, wealth and in student need.

And so the state is trying to step in and equal or not equalize, but create some equity in the system so that there's enough money for schools to meet the needs of students, because the meet the needs are much higher in Rochester than in some of our outside suburbs.

but there's a lot less wealth within the community to draw from, and it's not reasonable to have ridiculous taxes to do that.

So that's a way of creating equity in education.

is it, is that system still, is it is it fixed payment?

Is it's not it's not, it's I will say this.

It's better than it's ever been.

Okay.

But it's not where it needs to be.

It's it's it's a fully funded formula.

But there there's a big debate right now about tweaking and changing the formula to make it even more equitable.

And we've only had this is the second year we've had full funding.

So it's with Arpa and everything else.

It's hard to know if this is the right, formula, if this is the right mix.

People fought for decades to get to this point, and now we have to kind of readdress of like, did we do it right?

Tim writes in to say that both of the parents on your panel have talked about safety being a big issue for their children.

Armed officers in every school would make sure that we see a lot less violence.

That is from Tim.

We we had armed officers in schools a number of years ago.

And I'll let the other folks do have they do.

But I just want to say, there were, police in the school district and suspensions rates were higher than they are now.

It's it doesn't necessarily fix anything.

And actually there we had incident reports of kids getting pepper sprayed, being handcuffed.

Because when you put those tools, when you put guns and handcuffs and pepper spray in schools, you know, things get used and kids get exposed to violence and, a negative atmosphere.

So I would say that's not a solution, but I'll defer.

I sorry, I had to jump in.

Okay.

So let me ask the parents on the panel who've joined us here, Isabelle Rosa, parent of two, 12 and 17 year old.

Well, a parent of 329 year old as well, but two in school now.

So when Tim says an armed officer in every school would make your kids safer, what comes to mind for you?

I get sad, I get sad because, I don't want my children going to school, seeing armed officers.

There has to be something better, something more, something healthier.

for for them.

And it's not having an armed officer, I just, I they I could see, you know, them, them reacting like getting more intimidated and, you know.

Seeing, police as an answer.

What does that tell the child?

What is that?

What is that?

What would that tell my son or my boys?

When they're walking in, they see an armed officer.

I'm trying.

I'm trying to get in Tim's head or anybody else who is going to argue for this.

And they might say, hey, you might go to, a shopping mall.

You might go somewhere where they've got security.

And that doesn't make you feel bad.

That makes you feel safer.

And tell your kids that that would make them feel that you make them feel safer.

No.

Well, you see, school, for me, school is like a second home.

And so, you know, my boys aren't going, walking home and, and and they, they know that there's consequences to bad behaviors, but they know that they're not going to be, you know, Abused or mentally abused.

and so, you know, school is a second home.

And I just feel that school needs to be an environment that is warm, that is supportive, that is nourishing.

and I just don't think that that would be that would contribute to that.

So Isabelle is talking about the psychology of it.

Aymond talked about the data of it.

Angela, where are you on?

And Tim's suggestion, we want more officers back in schools.

Well, from lived experience, I would say no.

because I remember I graduated in 2012. and at that time there was officers, you know, all around, every time I walked in through those doors, it felt like if I was going back to court, which I've already had experience with, you know, the family court system.

So it's like going back to that same environment in some sense.

So it is a psychological thing, like, I would like to see and feel warm when I go indoors, something that makes me happy, like, colors.

not an officer that will make me feel as I have something to fear in some sense.

so I don't think that in my opinion, no, I would believe that maybe having some trained professionals in the school that maybe it maybe it don't have it, like out in the open concealed weapons or just some training of some other kind.

we're actual adults.

Could come in and handle the situation without having to put an actual officer with a gun.

Well, let me grab a phone call from Gary in Brighton.

Who wants to win?

Hi, Gary.

Go ahead.

Yes, I thought in, 34, 41 years.

I'm a I grew up in the city and, listening to everything people are saying.

And unfortunately, these same things will being said years and years and years ago.

And really, nothing has changed all that much.

as far as suspensions go, that's that's a tough call because.

Well, what what is what if you have a kid that's in the classroom every day and not violent, but is disturbing the class every single day, and that prevents the other kids in the class from being able to learn.

What do you do with that student?

Gary, I think that's part of where the.

What's the name of the zone?

but the help zone.

And I think that the it's it's a really good question because we, we hear this all the time.

Right.

Like it's that's sort of the thing that's held up is, what about the other students when you have somebody disrupting learning.

Sure.

And, yeah, definitely.

There needs to be, something to address that behavior.

But most of suspensions aren't for that, first of all.

And, we did a study a number of years ago when the district first changed its discipline.

Policies and suspensions went down pretty significant, like 30%.

And we didn't see the impact on the academics of other students.

We didn't see it negatively hurt kids because you weren't suspending people as much.

I think that that's a little bit of, of, a myth or a straw man sometimes.

But I would say if that is is a problem, then yeah, you got it.

You got to address it.

But is is addressing it, getting rid of that kid and not letting them go to school.

Right.

There's got to be some other solution here.

So I think that the question to help son comes in.

Yeah.

The help some comes in I mean and it's not just helps.

I don't think that's a cure all.

There could be a lot of other things.

But you go, why is this kid acting out every day?

Is it is there something else here that needs to be addressed?

And are you would you're not addressing that just by kicking the kid out of school?

In fact, you're ignoring it and allowing it to fester.

And I think that's the biggest point.

Suspensions just don't work.

We both agree, and I think everybody would agree.

We don't want kids disrupting class.

Suspensions just aren't going to fix that.

Gary thank you.

And I want to let John in Rochester you got about 30s to squeeze in some suggestions.

Go ahead John okay.

How do oh heaven parents.

sure.

They're, 13 and schools with one another, very local places.

So you're a part of of six, three years, 3 to 3 children and their careers.

So, babysitting and child care and one another for children who are in the same Cleveland campus.

the current snow over there is children are in the same group with their own children.

Well, I mean, that's an interesting idea.

Angela, Isabella or two involved parents here.

I don't know about this specific idea here, but generally speaking, more parental involvement.

What do you think here?

that's that's a great idea, a great question, and I think it's doable.

we're actually in Bipoc peak.

We're trying to, we are empowering parents, by education and even, you know, here in the children's agenda, like, joining in and, like being active, there would be some resource of information in, support, for parental support.

and yes, having where the parents get together and share their own experiences and what works for them, what works, what didn't work.

absolutely.

And then having a safe space for, youth, children to actually talk as well.

Like what?

What are their ideas?

And how can we actually come together with a, family driven, youth guided approach?

So this is only just one aspect, obviously, of what the children's agenda does.

And as we reached the end of this hour, let me just tell you again, if you want to participate tonight, it's a teaching, it's a children's agenda teaching event and it's on zoom.

You can participate on zoom at 630.

Everyone is invited.

You can hear about the proposed budget that's coming up here, and we'll post a link to register on the episode page.

They would love to see you there.

you know, Angela and Isabelle show you what?

Show you what it's like when parents get involved at this level.

And I really appreciate both of you being here, sharing your experiences.

Good luck to you and your kids.

Thanks very much for being here.

Thank you.

Eamon Scanlon, director of community impact at the Children's Agenda.

Whatever happens with this budget, will you come back and kind of fill in the community on what did did not happen to where it goes next?

I would love to.

Thank you for being here.

more connections coming up in just a moment.

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