- In 2017, hip-hop officially surpassed rock to become the most popular genre in the United States, and it's held the top spot ever since.

Rappers are the new rock stars and are taking the headlining spots at some of the largest music festivals.

And the sound is global with chart-topping rap songs in Korean, French and Spanish.

- But hip-hop was born out of counterculture and rebellion.

Now that it's mainstream, can artists still break the mold?

Today we're exploring alternative hip-hop, artists that put originality first to innovate on an already innovative genre.

- But what does alternative even mean?

Is it something you can actually classify?

And is it fair to put artists in a category just for being unique?

(smooth hip-hop music) Later, Linda and I are gonna work together to create our own alternative hip-hop beat.

But first, let's break down what we mean when we say alternative music.

- Alternative hip-hop is sort of a loose category and not everyone agrees on its definition, but we are using it to describe artists who stand out from their peers and whose originality has made them highly influential.

Artists like Digable Planets, MF Doom, or even Odd Future.

- To get more context surrounding alternative hip-hop, I sat down with Dr. Taj Frazier from the PBS show Hip-Hop and the Metaverse.

When you think of alternative hip-hop, what characteristics do you think make it alternative?

- When I think of alternative hip-hop, I think number one, I don't think hip-hop came up or folks within hip-hop came up with that terminology.

The deep thing about hip-hop, I think, is that it's very, very expansive and plural, you know?

So you have different subcultures under the banner of hip-hop.

- When people think of alternative music, they usually associate it with rock sub-genres like shoegaze, grunge or indie.

And that's probably because the term originated in rock music.

The phrase alternative music was popularized in 1979 by Terry Tolkin, a music journalist who used alternative to describe the underground bands he covered.

During the '80s, the label became a catch-all for any music that didn't match the commercial sounds of mainstream rock and pop.

But there was also a lot of experimentation going on in hip-hop during the '80s and '90s.

This time is called the golden age of hip-hop.

It is known for its innovation in production and sound.

This time also saw the mainstream rise of gangster rap from Los Angeles with blockbuster releases like "Straight Outta Compton" from NWA.

And on the East Coast, hip-hop was dominated by hardcore rap with artists like Public Enemy and The Notorious BIG.

But music that didn't fit into this mold earned the moniker alternative.

- I think oftentimes what was given kind of the name of alt hip-hop were communities in hip-hop that did not fit or match the kind of boundaries or to some degree, tropes of what people imagine hip-hop to be.

- If you ain't have a gun or hat to the side, then you ain't hip-hop.

With their debut album "Bizarre Ride II," The Pharcyde became an alternative hip-hop cult classic.

The lyrics showed a wackiness and a lightheartedness different from the gangster rap popular in Los Angeles at the time.

The production from J-Swift contained layers and layers of samples with some really deep cuts like this sax line from an Eddie Russ song.

(saxophone music) ♪ She keeps on passin' me by ♪ (saxophone music) - When asked why they strayed from gangster rap, Imani from The Pharcyde told Acclaim magazine, "See, the whole thing is we're not gangsters.

"We wanted to be true to ourselves, "and we weren't about to fake being gangsters "just to make rap records."

There were other artists labeled as alternative hip-hop at this time like Brand Nubian, De La Soul, Digable Planets, and many more.

- So that's how alternative hip-hop got started, forming around the same time as alternative rock, to describe rap music that didn't fall under the umbrella of what was popular at the time.

And because this description is so broad, there are a lot of hip-hop sub-genres that are used in correlation with alternative, where conscious hip-hop describes music with a social activism focus, underground hip-hop often refers to music made by indie artists.

Where anti rap focuses on rap that's self-deprecating, experimental hip-hop refers to music that's more abstract.

But all of these terms are just labels that are used interchangeably with alternative.

And this is a perfect example of how diving deep into sub-genres can get really confusing.

And because hip-hop is always evolving and some artists are so influential, what might be considered alternative when it's first released, ends up becoming the norm years later.

Take the Fugees, for example, who mix Afro-Cuban sounds with reggae and soul to create a truly unique sound with the score.

♪ Oh la la la la la la la la la la la ♪ ♪ Sweet thing yeah yeah ♪ - The score went on to win a Grammy and go seven times platinum.

And because it's so cemented in pop culture and has been so influential to other artists, the music doesn't sound as uniquely alternative as it once was.

In 1996, A Tribe Called Quest released the jazz rap album "Beats, Rhymes and Life" which ended up debuting at the number one spot on the Billboard 200.

And this confuses things further because with the successful alternative groups like Fugees and Tribe, alternative hip-hop suddenly became mainstream.

- Okay, but that was the '90s.

Who are the alternative hip-hop artists of today?

First off, popular hip-hop in the last 20 years sounds incredibly different from how it sounded during the golden age.

And oftentimes, unconventional production is embraced by the mainstream.

Imagine a hip-hop fan from 1990 listening to "Lollipop" by Lil Wayne.

♪ Shawty want a thug ♪ ♪ Shawty want a thug ♪ ♪ Bottles in the club ♪ - The scratchy auto-tune singing and bubbly production might make a fan from 1990 question if this is even hip-hop at all.

But the track went on to win the Grammy for Best Rap Song in 2009.

Lil Wayne's song "Lollipop" ushered in a wave of auto-tune singing rappers that went on to be chart toppers like Lil Uzi Vert, Young Thug and Coi Leray.

So if that's popular rap today, what is alternative hip-hop like?

Today's alternative hip-hop artists are continuing to experiment by combining genres from across the world to create a sound distinct from what's trending on streaming.

Take Odd Future for example, one of the most famous collectives in alternative hip-hop today.

When Tyler, the Creator released "Igor" in 2019, he departed from the horrorcore rap the group was known for and leaned into funk, neo soul, and soft rock.

Just listen to this interpolation of Japanese soft rock artists Tatsuro Yamashita and his song "Gone, Gone/Thank You" ♪ Thank you for the love ♪ ♪ Thank you for the joy ♪ ♪ Thank you for your love ♪ ♪ Thank you for the heart ♪ - Another reason a modern artist might earn the alternative moniker is for experimenting with conventional hip-hop aesthetics.

For example, take Tierra Whack's music which has been described as experimental by Pitchfork for its use of vocal processing and psychedelic melodies.

♪ Heard no flow like this ♪ ♪ Make you say yo excuse me miss ♪ ♪ Go against me I'll beat like Swiss ♪ - To get a better understanding of alternative hip-hop today, I talked to Jean Deaux, a rapper and singer who's known for mixing a wide range of genres in her music.

I've seen websites describe your music as alternative R&B.

What do you think of that description?

- I think alternative is another way to say out of the box or just non-traditional, so I fully accept that label because I know that I'm not making the classic version of R&B or hip-hop that people are used to.

So I fully embraced that all the way.

♪ 'Cause I knew I could ♪ ♪ She say she need me 'cause she know it's good ♪ I definitely took some inspiration from Santigold.

A lot of the music that I listened to growing up in high school like Lykke Li and a little bit of Amy Winehouse.

A lot of rap and hip-hop, you know, obviously Missy Elliot.

- One thing that Tierra Whack, Jean Deaux and Tyler, the Creator all have in common is that they all credit Missy Elliot for being their inspiration.

In 2022, Tyler, the Creator tweeted, "To my younger fans, go study all her albums."

Missy Elliot broke norms when she entered the music world by being her unapologetic self.

She was known for constantly experimenting and evolving her sound.

In 2022, she tweeted, "Sophomore albums are a very pivotal time for an artist.

"It's the best album to experiment on "because if you play safe, you'll be boxed in."

In Missy's sophomore albums "Da Real World," she switched it up by experimenting with the grittier, retro-futuristic sound.

The album's aesthetics pictured a surreal sci-fi future that championed women's empowerment.

Can you talk to me about Missy Elliot and what she means as just an icon, as an inspiration to you?

- Whoa, we could be here all day.

She is rock and roll, she's hip-hop, she is classic R&B.

Everything down to the videos, to the visual artistry, to her kind of like breaking the mold.

I think she just got to a place where it was undeniable, her talent, and she kind of made room for herself.

She's always inspiring me as a artist to just push the boundary a little bit more and to have that courage to go out on a limb and take a risk.

- Missy Elliot wasn't alone.

The early 2000s were filled with highly influential alternative hip-hop artists like Outkast, Doomtree and MF Doom.

- Then there's the cross-pollination that exists between alternative rock and hip-hop.

During the late 2000s, indie rock saw a huge boom in popularity.

In 2009, Jay-Z was praising the indie band Grizzly Bear and said, "What the indie rock movement is doing right now is really inspiring."

Since then, many rappers have collaborated with indie rock artists like Kendrick Lamar with Tame Impala, Kanye with Bony Iver, and Kid Cuddy with MGMT and Ratatat.

♪ I'm on the pursuit of happiness and I know ♪ - [Linda] There's also an entire wave of artists who have been pushing past the limitations of what hip-hop sounded like in the past.

Artists like Death Grips, Danny Brown and Clipping.

Often called experimental hip-hop, Clipping has blended the hip-hop sound with avant-garde genres like industrial and noise.

♪ Why you grab one right by the dream space ♪ ♪ Make one scream until she pray ♪ - So what exactly is alternative hip-hop?

Well, all of the artists that we mentioned are so different from each other that it's hard to call it a sub-genre of hip-hop at all.

- And considering the success that some of these artists have seen, it's not fair to say that it's only music outside of the mainstream.

- Alt hip-hop often refers to music that feels unexpected, especially music that doesn't fit into the common tropes that the public has for hip-hop.

- Lil Yachty's newest album is the perfect example of this.

The mumble rapper completely departed from what his fans knew him for and created a psychedelic rock album that ended up being praised by critics.

♪ Up when it's cold ♪ ♪ You call me bestie ♪ ♪ Don't test me ♪ ♪ I'm too sexy ♪ - [Linda] Now that we've learned a little bit more about what alternative hip-hop is, Arthur and I are going to attempt to create our own alternative hip-hop beat.

- But when it comes to building our alternative hip-hop track, where do you wanna pull from?

How are we gonna put this thing together?

- So I was thinking that I would just give you a bunch of vocal samples and then we can make a beat out of that.

- Absolutely.

- Like a sample pack.

- Absolutely, yep, and you're gonna step outside of your- - [Linda] I am.

- Comfort zone with the zane and just channel your- - I'm gonna jump into the zany game.

(alternative hip-hop beat) ♪ Woooo ♪ ♪ Freedom ♪ ♪ Woooo ♪ - You know, also, we could upload the track to SoundCloud and see if any supporters or fans wanna add a verse onto it, see what they would do to it.

- Yeah, I'm kind of excited to see what people do with it.

(alternative hip-hop beat) Before you go, I wanna let you know about Fight the Power: How Hip Hop Changed the World, a new PBS series hosted by hip-hop legend Chuck D. It's about how hip-hop became a global movement that spoke truth to power.

- And thank you to Dr. Taj Frazier for joining us on this episode.

Don't forget to check out his show Hip Hop and the Metaverse over at PBS Voices.

Check out the links in the description.

(contemporary music)