Nugen Law; specializing in estate planning and elder care law, emphasizing independence and quality of life.

Serving Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, and Florida.

More information at NugenLaw.com.

we are very interested tonight and having you watch us because we have a great topic we're going to be talking about elder law doesn't necessarily mean you have to be elderly to pay attention to our show tonight and I think most of you if you watch a LIFE Ahead regularly will be familiar with our guests this evening.

That's Brian Nugent.

Brian, thank you for coming again.

Thank you, sir.

He's just always wonderful.

He always gets a lot of phone calls.

So I will tell you right now you want to get a phone call in arly.

You'll see the number here on the bottom of the screen and (969) 27 twenty call with your questions.

We have a phone operator in the control room that will take your questions and we would love it when you talk to us on the air and that way if Brian has a question back to you, you're right there on the phone.

But if you're not comfortable with that, that's OK. >> The phone operator will take your question and then they type it up and send it out here to the studio so I can read it to Brian on the teleprompter.

>> So we'll look forward to hearing from you, Brian.

I know we're going to talk about elder law, but let's let's define it first of how I mentioned it doesn't necessarily mean it's for the elderly.

>> It does not mean it's not isolated to folks that have a certain age let's say of a certain age to act mature clients know it.

It could be it can affect anyone that has some type of a learning disability or physical disability.

There's a whole branch of elder law that deals with folks that are dealing with some of those issues and also deals with folks of a certain age.

And also I'd like to define the difference between elder law and estate planning.

They are different but they're very related.

Estate planning is at the time that you pass you're planning for today I'm planning for what happens when I pass and where do my assets go and who's going to be responsible for transferring those assets and and who gets what and who doesn't get what what and you're doing your will and you're all living will you got a power of attorney and you've heard this before.

>> I have a feeling well I know a time or two there's like a process and it's a wonderful reminding us all the things we need to do.

>> Go ahead.

I didn't mean to interrupt.

Not at all.

And so elder law involves all those things we've talked about with estate planning but it also talks about how is it that I protect those assets that I have during my lifetime?

How is it that I and maybe get some benefits that could help me be able to live at home indefinitely or assist with paying for my stay if I need to leave my home or I need to have help inside the home?

How do I pay for that?

So elder law not only deals with transferring those assets, handling your affairs after you pass away, it also addresses how was it that I protect my assets during my lifetime?

How do I secure benefits if I have a child that maybe has some type of a disability, a special needs person or as I'm aging I have a dementia and I need help in the home or just have physical ailments that I'm looking for that help in the home where I could no longer stay in my own home and I need to move to perhaps an assisted living facility or I'm looking at perhaps a nursing home stay or a memory care unit stay.

How is it that I am able to protect my assets still get benefits and also those documents that Sandy was just mentioning a moment ago, how is that I put things in place a durable power of attorney This is a classic everybody needs a power of attorney health care representative designation.

So if I can't make decisions about my own health care, who is it that's going to make those decisions for me?

I don't have those things in place.

would need to go to court and have a guardianship established nothing wrong with guardianships but they're expensive.

They take time in the court.

It takes a little bit longer to get that up than people recognize.

So if you can take charge of your own destiny while you're alive and healthy and incompetent to make those decisions, it's always much preferred that we have those things in place.

>> OK, so then there's a definite difference between elder law and estate estate planning for sure.

>> How do they well, all right.

Let's talk about how how they're different and then how they come together.

>> How they come together is really that estate planning part of it because estate planning is a part of elder law.

>> I like to say that every elder law attorney does estate planning not every estate planning attorney does elder law.

>> Oh so there's plenty plenty to do for both types of attorneys without a doubt.

But with elder law it's probably a little bit more of an in-depth conversation that you're going to be having.

They may be able to issue spot things that an estate planning attorney may not be able to issue spot and say if we do this in the future there could be a consequence.

>> Oh, you're wanting to gift today.

That's fine.

However, let's be aware that when you're gifting that you may cause an issue trying to get benefits in the future so your elder law attorney is probably having a more robust and more throw knowledge of things that could affect you level of a disability or a loved one that has some level of a disability.

>> So they do they meet on that estate planning side.

>> What happens when I pass away how they differ is that elder law is really looking at protecting assets during your lifetime, getting those benefits if you're appropriate for those benefits and securing care for you could be as I said before in your home could be out in a facility nursing home memory care unit.

You may be able to receive food in your home.

You may be able to receive as I say, an assistant in your home that's attending to you, attending to your activities of daily living things like getting up in the morning and bathing and dressing perhaps meal preparation, doing laundry, cooking, cleaning so we can secure benefits to all of those things for you while protecting your assets as well.

>> So you've been doing this a number of years.

>> You know how many years but thirty years I hate to admit it but it's true really.

>> Oh OK. Well he went to law school when he was third grade.

You're home right.

So in your experience what do normally people come to you for when they say OK, you know it's time for me to to speak to an attorney that specializes in elder law?

>> What's the usual problem if there is such a thing?

>> I think that normally I see people when we're talking about estate planning, I see people typically they have their first child.

>> I may not have a lot of assets and have this precious newborn and they're concerned what happens to us if we become ill and we pass away who's going to raise the child.

>> So oftentimes I'll have clients come in initially for that and they're really just young.

>> Yeah, young families.

OK, I think the next time typically that I'm seeing people if there's some type of an unexpected illness so I'm a little bit younger, I have an unexpected illness.

>> I didn't get my estate planning in place.

I haven't even thought about getting care in the home.

So oftentimes I'll have people that they have something like that's happened to them the next time that I normally see people as when they are either getting ready for retirement or they've just retired, this is one of those boxes that they're ticking off oftentimes I spoke with their financial advisor and their financial advisor is saying look, I'm planning for you financially to be able to live successfully for the remainder of your life and I've been harping on you for the last twenty years to get your estate planning a place you haven't done it.

>> So now's the time I'd like you to speak to an estate planning elder law attorney strictly for elder law.

I think that when folks are going into a nursing home, when folks are going into a memory care unit and all of a sudden they're writing an eight , nine , ten, eleven, twelve thousand dollar check per month and they're saying wow, I wasn't aware of this huge expense and they start seeing their assets decline and they worry am I going to have enough or am I going to have enough especially if I've married clients right.

Other elder law attorneys I'm experiences as well.

So the well spouse sometimes we'll call them the community spouse.

They're concerned because they're seeing oh my gosh, I'm spending all of this money how I need to live as well and what will I do if I have to go into that's right.

>> Living how am going to help myself if I've spent all this money.

Yeah or people have an illness or a condition that comes on in their 60s, 70s, 80s and we didn't do that planning in advance like maybe we should have and I need a little bit of help in the home.

I can't I can't care for my loved one 24 hours a day I always said I was going to but it's very challenging.

It's very difficult to take care of someone every hour of every day every day of the week, every day of the month and they just get overwhelmed.

So those are often times that I see people coming in.

Ideally though I would love to see folks before it is that they have some type of a condition and I need to emergency in a crisis situation protect their assets.

I always like to see people in advance if at all possible.

>> Well, you talked about taking whether or not you can take care of yourself and sometimes you just don't know that's the hard thing and you don't know how long you're going to live.

>> How can I say this tactfully?

I mean you just and I'm sure people will ask you as an attorney, OK, help me plan how much money I need for the rest of my life .

>> How do you decide what does that mean?

What is the rest of your life ?

Yep.

So how I answer the question when people are talking about do I have enough assets, do I have things in place for that I look at what I do as being part of a team.

So as an elder law attorney I'm looking at working with their financial advisor.

I'm looking at working with their CPA.

So as a team we're making it determined are helping the client.

I shouldn't say we make a decision for them because we don't I always say I give you the advice you drive the bus you do with it my advice whatever you want to.

>> But so specifically in regard to do I have enough money to live for the next X amount of years, we would bring in the financial advisor at that time and if they don't have a financial advisor we I would refer them in other elder law attorney would refer them to financial advisors that typically would work with in the past we have good experiences with good idea.

>> Good idea.

Well we have a phone call already.

I knew we would and this is from Jane and here's what Jane has to say or the question she can't say for you Brian.

She said When is a will or when a will is in place?

How does a conservatorship come into play and then what prevents the state from coming in and taking any part of the estate so I'm going to answer the second part of your question first.

What prevents a state so you mean the state of Indiana state of Ohio State, Michigan, et cetera coming in and taking a part of the estate?

>> So this is the state doesn't get a part of your estate so the state doesn't get any of your of your estate whatsoever.

We used to have something called inherited taxed the state.

>> Maybe that's I hear this type of question maybe that's your concern is that what type of tax would I be paying at the time in my estate when I pass?

But actually for the most part state inheritance tax has been got.

It doesn't exist any longer.

Right.

So your only concern would be federal estate tax.

So federal estate tax we're looking at very large estates in excess of thirteen million dollars per person.

So as a couple we could have 27 million dollars before we pay are worried about paying any federal estate tax now that is set to change in the year twenty twenty six we don't know what the new numbers are going to be yet but currently it is actually that federal estate tax affects less than one percent of our population.

So I'm not so worried about the state taking a portion of your money when you pass away unless the the state has paid for some of your care through a program like Medicaid and you happen to have assets in your estate when you pass and that instance you have the obligation of telling the state that Medicaid SSA that you have received benefits and there isn't an estate.

>> There are assets there.

You let them know that they have the ability to file a claim in the estate and take a portion of that the state would do that.

>> So that what you're saying.

Yeah.

So Medicaid is a federal program and Medicaid gives money to each state to dole out is that state believes it's appropriate.

>> So if the state of Ohio for example, has given you money to assist in your care during your lifetime and you pass and there is an estate in your name which is opened, they have the right to file a claim and get some of that money back where all of that money back depending upon how large the estate is.

Now the next part of your question, Jane, is when a will is in place.

How does a conservatorship come into play?

So I think what you're asking about is maybe a guardianship so guardianship would only be in play during your lifetime and so your will and your estate planning wouldn't necessarily affect whether or not a guardianship is established.

You could in your will if you had young children or someone that an adult child maybe that you were caring for that had special needs in your will you could indicate who it is that you wanted to watch your children as a guardian of their person or as a guardian of their money, their estate that you could say in your will but a conservatorship would be during your lifetime, not one you pass.

So to your question when a will is in place, how does a conservatorship come into play ?

>> It really doesn't.

It would just be during your lifetime as I say, unless you're needing to appoint a guardian for someone that in that instance in your will you would indicate this is who I want to raise my child care for my adult child with some type of a special needs.

Yeah, something like that.

>> What's the difference?

Brian and I and I ask this because it seems like conservatorships are kind of in the news now in the celebrity world, if you will.

What's the difference between a conservatorship and a guardian?

>> I don't well, the Guardian is the person that is taking care of the we will say the ward or the subject of the guardianship.

So a guardian is the person that's looking out for them and we could have some we could it could be more than one person but we have someone looking out for the person.

We could also have someone looking out for their money.

So sometimes we'll do that.

We'll have one person to look out for the person themselves and one person look at manage the money.

>> So we have somebody that's fantastic with kids and we and they're the ones that we want to show our children love and affection and and instill the morals that you know, that align with our morals, et cetera.

But that person couldn't manage money so we might have somebody else manage the money.

But as far as the difference between the two , we normally say guardianship.

Yeah, not conservatorship.

>> OK, all right.

So that's just kind of a trendy could be weird, right?

Well and now I'm licensed in four states not every state so some states may use that that language I say OK so I was talking about tax a few moments ago.

One state may call the state inheritance tax and another state may call it an estate tax.

>> So you might hear a little different from from state to state.

>> Got it.

OK, all right.

OK, great questions.

>> Thank you so much.

Yeah.

Thanks Jane and thank you for watching us here on LIFE Ahead for the rest of you give us a call (969) 27 twenty and if you're out of the immediate area that's OK. We make it toll free for you if you just dial one 866 right in front of that phone number.

>> OK, Brian, let us talk a little bit about discussing some of these issues or planning with a client.

>> What do you expect of them when they come to see you the first time?

>> What should they bring to you or be prepared to discuss?

>> Great question.

I think I think that first they need to be aware of generally what it is that they want to get accomplished.

I think that they need to bring with a general idea about their assets and their income.

I always say to my clients it's not that I want to be nosy but when I know what it is that you have how the asset is invested, it lets me know what we can and can't do with those assets.

It really gives me some great information.

>> I also like to say to folks that are coming in to see me and I would encourage you folks as you're speaking with your elder law attorneys estate planning attorneys don't come into the to that meeting with a preconceived notion about what you're going to get accomplished or what it is that you're going to end up with because there should be a free flow of conversation between you and your attorney of choice about what it is that you want to get accomplished.

>> Don't don't worry about talking legalese.

Don't worry about I saw this on the news or I I read I saw Brian on PBS and this is what I need now just come in and have a general conversation about the situation that you're in, what you want to get accomplished, where you want to be and then engage with the attorney to reach a conclusion a goal that's most appropriate for you.

We're really here to help.

I enjoy helping my clients.

I like putting it together.

It's like a giant puzzle.

I like educating them and in fact I think that that's always attorneys do we educate our client.

The client ultimately makes the decision we have no decision making ability.

>> We give them the advice.

We make recommendations a majority of the time you're going to want to follow your attorney's recommendation that there are unique situations where you say I understand what you're telling me.

I understand for example, I understand to a trust is going to avoid probate.

>> I understand that you're saying to me it's a good thing but I don't want to use the trust.

I want to use a well yeah OK. so I'm letting you know this is my preference.

I think it's in the long run will serve you better it'll be less expensive .

>> It'll be faster for your heirs, all those types of things.

But if you don't want to do it we won't do it.

We'll do a will.

>> So come into those meetings though with an open mind.

I think that's the first thing to bring with you.

I think number two you need to have thought about what it is that you're wanting to get accomplished.

>> You can give a little guidance to the attorney to guide them and their conversation with you.

And then finally, if you are able to come up with generally those assets that you have where they're located, how they're titled that will help your your counsel tremendously in giving you some guidance like the amount of of money or sometimes people well there are so stressed about giving me the dollar amount to the penny.

>> Well give me give me a day that penny will change so I don't I just need to know generally where you are but more importantly are we talking about annuities?

Are we talking about life insurance policies?

Are we talking about IRAs or are we talking about a brokerage account or physical assets, physical assets, land or all of those types of things?

>> Right.

That's what that we're really needing to get a handle on because that starts to shape what we can do.

For example, let's say a farming client that has I own two thousand acres and I have five kids and I want to treat the kids equally and I don't have a large savings account and I want to give the entire farm to two of my children.

Well, that's tough because I've got five kids.

>> Most of my assets are in real estate.

I don't have any cash to balance it out so but you've come to the attorney with here's my problem I need to talk about a solution.

>> Here's my major asset to real estate.

We think it's worth X dollars.

Here's my other ear, my other assets that are more liquid.

>> And so that's the information that you're bringing to your to your attorney.

That's the problem that the you're bringing to the attorney the attorney can assist you in solving that and getting where you want to be.

>> We have another question and this is from James and this is what James wants to know and I know you suggestd the answer already.

>> Are you ever too young to start a will?

never too young to do it well so long as you're well eighteen years of age or older and then there's an exception for thinking it's merchant Marines.

There's some type of an exception based upon military service.

Oh OK.

But generally 18 years of age por older so no you're never too young to do it.

>> In fact I like with my clients their children are going off to college frankly I like my my college age clients to have in place power of attorney health care representative designation waiver form.

So if something happens when you're away from home you've we assume that our parents can automatically make all these decisions for us.

They can't once you're eighteen you're an adult.

So remember I was saying earlier about avoiding guardianship so if something happens that your parents are going to have to go to court, going to have to establish guardianship, go through that whole process, have a doctor's opinion, et cetera, et cetera.

So if my college age students have that power of attorney in place, that health care rep that Hepple waiver with a medical issue, your parents could come in and talk to the doctor, talk to the hospital, etc.

If you need to have your parents do something with your checking account back home, your parents with that power of attorney can go to the bank and can help you out.

So ever too young for a will doing some of these things?

I don't think so at all.

There is something called intestate succession so if you pass away and you don't have a will then there are statutes laws that will determine where your money goes.

>> Is that the same for every state?

No, it's different state estate so every state will have well I can't again I'm licensed in four states.

I can speak to those.

>> My assumption is every state has intestate succession but so if you don't determine in writing in advance where does that you want your assets to go should you pass away, we're going to rely on those state statute that say it goes to my parents, it goes to my siblings.

>> There's a whole chart that it goes through so it may go where you want it to go.

It may not be going where you want it to go.

So to answer James question earlier, I don't think you're ever too young to do it and I'm always interested when I get clients and there are fifty sixty seventies they've had children successfully grandkids and they've never done any estate planning so they were very lucky they got off the hook that nothing negative happened and they survived that long.

But now everybody everybody should have estate planning with without a doubt yeah we have a phone call online I think Ron are you there with us tonight on the phone?

>> Yes, I am.

Good evening.

I'm Sandy .

Love the show.

>> Thank you.

Thank you so much for watching.

Do you have a question for you real quick?

Okay.

ago.

How often should I review it?

That's my first question.

Number two , I have it all set up.

I just have two daughters.

It's just me and then my two daughters they're older.

>> I have them as my beneficiaries.

They each get fifty fifty in the world.

Do I need a trust living well or anything?

All of my accounts my brokerage accounts, savings accounts all that is in a TMD transfer pawn got to transfer on death.

>> I know that.

OK so to answer your question Ron, I think I think beneficiary designations transfer on death designations are great in some instances.

The only thing that I make people aware of is if you're saying for example, if my daughter passes away heaven forbid but if my daughter passes away and it goes to her children and her children or minors, do we want the kids to get the money at eighteen?

If we had language inside of our will or inside the trust that said they don't get it until they're twenty five or I don't want the ex in-law to manage the money for my child I can't do that with a simple beneficiary designation with a will or a trust I could do it.

>> Do you need a will versus a trust that is really dependent upon what you want to get accomplished and what your assets are?

I am a fan of trusts because I avoid the probate process.

I cut my expenses down significantly by using a trust I have a trust for myself.

I have my family members I'm doing trust for so I'm an advocate of them.

However they're not always appropriate depending upon the assets that you have and what you want to get accomplished.

It really is Kleine specific to your assets and what you want to do and we're out of time.

>> We are and I hate that.

Yes, I hate that run.

We could have talked to another half hour on your question but I'll tell you what the good news is is that Brian's going to be back again next month.

>> Let's see in March I think like the third Wednesday could be twenty percent.

>> OK, so we'll keep you posted here on LIFE Ahead.

Meanwhile, we're going to see you right here next Wednesday night at seven thirty.

Good night Nugen Law; specializing in estate planning and elder care law, emphasizing independence and quality of life.

Serving Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, and Florida.

More information at NugenLaw.com.