BUT FIRST, WE WANTED TO LEARN MORE THIS WEEK ABOUT HOW THE STATE SEES MENTAL HEALTH, THE CHALLENGES THAT STILL EXIST AND WHAT PEOPLE SHOULD DO IF THEY NEED HELP.

SO WE TURNED TO DR. ANNE MARIE SULLIVAN, THE COMMISSIONER OF THE STATE OFFICE OF MENTAL HEALTH.

[ THEME MUSIC ] DR. SULLIVAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

I APPRECIATE IT.

SO MENTAL HEALTH I VIEW AS ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS IN SOCIETY TODAY.

I'M LOOKING AT IT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF ME, MY MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS, SOCIETY, PANDEMIC COMING OUT OF IT, A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS HAPPENING IN THE LAST DECADE, I THINK.

HOW DO YOU VIEW MENTAL HEALTH IN SOCIETY TODAY?

WELL, IT IS DEFINITELY A VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE.

YEAH.

MENTAL HEALTH HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN IMPORTANT ISSUE, BUT I THINK IT WAS IN THE SHADOWS MANY YEARS BEFORE.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS HAPPENING NOW IS PEOPLE ARE MORE AWARE, WHICH I THINK IS TERRIFIC, BUT MENTAL HEALTH ESPECIALLY POST THE PANDEMIC, WE KNOW THERE'S BEEN SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN DEPRESSION, ANXIETY, POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS SINCE THE PANDEMIC.

ALMOST AN INCREASE OF 40% OF NEW YORKERS PROBABLY HAVE SOME SEQUELAE FROM THE PANDEMIC.

THAT'S SIGNIFICANT.

WE ALSO HAVE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS THAT GOT WORSE DURING THE PANDEMIC.

YES.

SO YES, IT'S A VERY BIG CHALLENGE RIGHT NOW BUT THE GOOD THING IS THAT I THINK PEOPLE ARE MUCH MORE OPEN TO ASKING FOR HELP THAN THEY'VE EVER BEEN BEFORE.

I THINK SO, TOO.

AND I THINK WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AND WHAT YOU'RE REALLY HONING IN ON IS THE TRAUMA FROM THE PANDEMIC.

I THINK TRAUMA COMES FROM A LOT OF PLACES, THE PANDEMIC, LIFE AT HOME, KIDS IN SCHOOLS DEALING WITH MASS SHOOTINGS, THINGS LIKE THAT.

WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THAT MOVING FORWARD?

I MEAN, HOW DO WE TACKLE THAT?

IT'S SUCH A BIG PROBLEM.

IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO FOCUS ON PREVENTION WITH MENTAL HEALTH.

YES.

BECAUSE THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE TRAUMAS AND EVERYONE'S TRAUMA CAN BE VERY DIFFERENT, BUT BASICALLY IT'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE THERE.

SO HOW DO WE PREVENT THE LONG-TERM SEQUELAE?

I THINK THERE, YOU BEGIN WITH YOUTH AND YOU BEGIN TO WORK WITH KIDS IN SCHOOLS.

YOU BEGIN TO WORK WITH PEDIATRICIANS AND THEIR FAMILIES THAT ARE UNDER STRESS AND YOU BEGIN TO OFFER THEM MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORTS THAT THEY NEED SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE PROLONGED TRAUMA, PROLONGED STRESS BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THE LONG-TERM EFFECTS OF THAT CAN BE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES IN ADULTHOOD.

ABOUT SO TELL ME WHAT WE'RE DOING AROUND CHILDREN.

I KNOW THAT WE HAVE SOME FUNDING GOING TOWARD MORE SUPPORT IN SCHOOLS AND MORE SUPPORT OUTSIDE OF SCHOOLS.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT WE'RE DOING TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN?

ONE OF OUR MAJOR INITIATIVES RIGHT NOW IS TO HAVE MENTAL HEALTH CLINICS ACTUALLY IN THE SCHOOLS AND TO GROW THAT.

WE HAVE ABOUT A THOUSAND IN THE SCHOOLS ACROSS NEW YORK STATE NOW AND WE'RE GOING TO BE ADDING ANOTHER 200 TO 300 THIS YEAR.

THE MENTAL HEALTH CLINICS PROVIDE SUPPORT FOR THE YOUTH, FOR THE PARENTS AND ALSO FOR THE TEACHERS SO THAT THEY FIND A YOUTH WHO THEY FEEL HAS SOME ISSUES, THEY CAN TALK TO MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS.

THAT YOUTH CAN GET SOME SERVICE RIGHT THERE IN THE SCHOOL IN A NON-STIGMATIZING WAY.

IT'S A MAJOR INITIATIVE TO HAVE THOSE SERVICES AVAILABLE.

NOW IF SOMEONE SHOULD NEED MORE INTENSIVE SERVICES, THEN THEY CAN CONNECT TO COMMUNITY-BASED SERVICES.

THE OTHER BIG THING WE HAVE IS THIS 988 NUMBER.

YES.

988 IS A COUNSELING LINE.

IT'S ALSO A CRISIS LINE, BUT A COUNSELING LINE.

IF YOU CALL 988 FOR ANY KIND OF MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS, BIG OR SMALL, YOU'LL GET SOMEONE TO TALK TO.

THE AVERAGE TIME ON THE LINE IS 25 MINUTES.

REALLY?

YES.

I WOULD ASSUME MOST PEOPLE WOULD SPEND TWO MINUTES AND MAYBE HANG UP.

NO.

TWENTY-FIVE MINUTES TALKING TO SOMEONE IS THE AVERAGE TIME, AND PEOPLE HAVE THE ABILITY TO OFTEN RESOLVE WHATEVER THE ISSUE IS IN THAT PHONE CALL.

IF NOT, THEY CAN GET A REFERRAL TO SERVICES.

24/7 AVAILABLE IN MULTIPLE LANGUAGES AND IN SOME DIALECTS, IT MIGHT BE THROUGH A TELEPHONE LANGUAGE LINE, BUT YOU CAN CALL AND YOU CAN GET SERVICES, AND THEY WILL CONNECT WITH YOU PERSONALLY ABOUT WHAT YOUR ISSUES ARE.

SO 24/7, ANYONE CAN CALL 988 OR TEXT, CALL OR TEXT.

THEY CAN TEXT AND THEY WILL HAVE A TEXT CONVERSATION WITH SOMEBODY.

YEP.

THEY WON'T GET A CALL BACK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

NO, TEXT YOU GET JUST A TEXT CONVERSATION.

CAN YOU TALK TO ME ABOUT THE SERVICES THEY MIGHT BE REFERRED TO ON 988 IF THEY CALL AND THE PROVIDER OR PERSON THEY'RE TALKING TO SAYS, I WANT TO CONNECT YOU WITH SOMETHING ELSE?

I THINK YOU NEED MORE THAN THIS PHONE CALL.

WHAT ARE THE OPTIONS?

THERE'S A WHOLE RANGE OF OPTIONS DEPENDING ON WHAT THE ISSUES ARE.

YEAH.

SO WE HAVE A VERY SUBSTANTIAL CLINIC SYSTEM, WHERE YOU CAN GET TO TALK TO A THERAPIST ABOUT A PROBLEM.

WE HAVE WHAT WE CALL CERTIFIED COMMUNITY BEHAVIORAL HEALTH CENTERS WHERE YOU CAN WALK IN AND GET SERVICES IMMEDIATELY.

IF YOU NEED TO SEE SOMEONE IN PERSON BECAUSE THE CRISIS IS PRETTY CHALLENGING AND YOU NEED TO TALK TO SOMEONE RIGHT AWAY, WE HAVE MOBILE CRISIS TEAMS THAT CAN GO OUT AND MEET WITH YOU.

SO YOU CAN HAVE SOMEONE COME TO TALK WITH YOU OR YOU CAN GET A REFERRAL, OR YOU CAN CALL BACK THE CRISIS LINE AGAIN.

WHATEVER REALLY IS THE NEED OF THE INDIVIDUAL WHO IS CALLING.

SO I WANT TO ZOOM OUT FOR A SECOND AWAY FROM CRISIS, CALLING 988 AND JUST TALK ABOUT SOMEBODY WHO MAY BE EXPERIENCING MENTAL HEALTH CHALLENGES, THEY DON'T FEEL THAT THEY'RE IN CRISIS OR NEED IMMEDIATE TREATMENT.

IF SOMEBODY IS STRUGGLING WITH THEIR MENTAL HEALTH, WHAT SHOULD THE FIRST STEP BE?

WHAT SHOULD THEY DO?

I THINK IT CAN VARY PERSON TO PERSON.

SOME PEOPLE FEEL COMFORTABLE TALKING WITH THEIR PRIMARY CARE DOCTOR.

YEAH.

THE DOCTOR THEY SAY.

YOU GO IN AND SAY, I'M HAVING SOME PROBLEMS AND MOST PRIMARY CARE DOCTORS ARE VERY GOOD AT TALKING TO YOU AND KIND OF DECIDING TOGETHER WHETHER YOU WANT FURTHER HELP OR NOT.

IT CAN ALSO CALL 988.

YOU CAN TALK TO-- IF YOU'RE A STUDENT, YOU CAN TALK WITH A TEACHER.

YOU CAN TALK WITH A TRUSTED ADULT OFTEN IF YOU ARE YOUTH, SOMEONE YOU FEEL YOU CAN TALK TO ABOUT THINGS.

MAIN THING IS IF YOU'RE FEELING-- YOU CAN TALK TO YOUR PARENTS SOMETIMES.

SOMETIMES KIDS HAVE A LITTLE MORE TROUBLE TALKING TO PARENTS.

YEAH.

WHEN WE DO TOURS ACROSS THE STATE, YOUTH ALSO TALKED TO OTHER YOUTH.

SO WE'RE GETTING THE WORD OUT TO YOUTH ABOUT HOW TO HELP EACH OTHER AND HOW TO ACCESS SERVICES.

IT'S SOMETHING CALLED YOUTH MENTAL HEALTH FIRST AID WHICH HELPS YOUTH UNDERSTAND HOW TO HELP EACH OTHER WITH MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES BECAUSE THAT'S OFTEN THE FIRST PERSON A YOUTH WOULD GO TO.

THE FIRST TIME I ACTUALLY SOUGHT HELP FOR MY MENTAL HEALTH CONDITIONS, I WENT TO MY PRIMARY DOCTOR AS YOU MENTIONED.

HE HAD REFERRED ME TO A THERAPIST.

I DEPART WORK OUT WITH THAT THERAPIST.

WE JUST WEREN'T A GOOD MATCH.

TRYING TO FIND A THERAPIST AFTER THAT WAS SUCH A CHALLENGE.

I HEAR THIS ALL THE TIME FROM PEOPLE WHO SAY THIS THERAPIST WON'T TAKE MY INSURANCE EVEN THOUGH I WANT TO GO TO THEM AND I REALLY WANT TO.

THIS THERAPIST IS BOOKED FOR THE NEXT SEVEN MONTHS.

THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO TAKE ME.

I MEAN, THERE IS THIS, AS YOU KNOW, THIS PROBLEM WITH THE INFRASTRUCTURE NOT MATCHING THE DEMAND FROM PEOPLE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK WE DO ABOUT THAT TO GET MORE PEOPLE INTO THESE CAREERS TO SERVE MORE PEOPLE?

RIGHT NOW, THIS IS A NATIONAL MENTAL HEALTH SHORTAGE.

YES.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT I HAVE NEVER SEEN QUITE AS SEVERE AS BEFORE.

I SHOULD SAY ALSO THAT I DON'T THINK NEW YORK IS AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS LIST.

WE PROBABLY DO A BETTER JOB THAN A LOT OF STATES.

WE DO.

WE DO.

BUT IT'S STILL A VERY SERIOUS SHORTAGE.

YES.

I THINK WE HAVE TO GET YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE FIELD, AND I THINK YOU CAN WE GIN THAT IN HIGH SCHOOL.

WE'VE ALREADY BEEN TALKING TO SOME HIGH SCHOOLS TO LET US COME IN AND SPEAK WITH THEM IN COLLEGES, COMMUNITY COLLEGES.

SO I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO TALK WITH SOCIAL WORKERS WHEN THEY GRADUATE, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO?

THERE'S DIFFERENT THINGS YOU CAN DO WITH THE SOCIAL WORK OR NURSES OR PHYSICIANS, WHETHER YOU WANT TO BECOME A PSYCHIATRIST, SO IT'S ENGAGING PEOPLE.

THE SECOND THING IS MAKING IT VIABLE FOR THEM AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE STAGE IS SUPPORTED IS LOAN REPAYMENTS WHICH IS A PRETTY GOOD INCENTIVE WE HAVE LOAN REPAYMENTS FOR PSYCHIATRISTS, NURSE PRACTITIONERS, AND JUST RECENTLY IN THIS YEAR'S BUDGET, WE HAVE LOAN REPAYMENTS FOR PSYCHOLOGISTS, SOCIAL WORKERS AND LICENSED MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELORS SO THAT'S TERRIFIC.

SO THAT MEANS THOSE INDIVIDUALS CAN ALSO YOU WORK THEN IN THE CLINIC OR YOU WORK IN A PUBLIC SECTOR SETTING OF SOME SORT AND YOU GET YOUR STUDENT LOANS PAID OVER A NUMBER OF YEARS, $10,000 A YEAR FOR SO MANY YEARS.

IT'S REALLY GOOD.

I MEAN, HONESTLY, IF YOU PAID FOR ME TO GO TO SCHOOL, I WOULD GO TO SCHOOL FOR JUST ABOUT ANYTHING.

THAT'S GREAT.

[LAUGHTER] THAT'S ONE WAY TO ENTICE PEOPLE INTO THE FIELD.

SURE.

I THINK WE HAVE TO GET THE WORD OUT ABOUT WHAT A REWARDING PROFIT IS.

YEAH.

I THINK MOST OF US WHO WORK IN THIS FIELD SAY WE GET MORE OUT OF IT THAN WE GIVE PERSONALLY.

WORKING IN HUMAN SERVICES IS VERY REWARDING.

IT CAN BE, YOU KNOW, DIFFICULT AT TIMES BUT IT'S TREMENDOUSLY REWARDING.

I THINK WE HAVE TO GET THE WORD OUT TO HAVE PEOPLE TO WANT TO BE INTERESTED IN THE FIELD.

I THINK SO, TOO.

MENTAL HEALTH IS-- YOU KNOW, IT'S A SPECIFIC FIELD.

IT'S NOT TALKING ABOUT PHYSICAL HEALTH AND IT'S NOT TALKING ABOUT OTHER THINGS.

I SEE MENTAL HEALTH AS SORT OF TARGETED.

WHAT I DON'T SEE NECESSARILY IS KIND OF LIKE A LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL FOR ALL OF THIS.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

WHEN I LOOK AT THE INFRASTRUCTURE, I'M THINKING OF THE INCENTIVES THAT YOU BRING IN AND I'M THINKING OF HOW THIS INDUSTRY MOVES FORWARD WITHOUT THAT.

IF WE CAN'T GET GOVERNMENT TO COMMIT, ARE THERE OTHER WAYS, DO YOU THINK?

I THINK GOVERNMENT IS COMMITTING IN A BIG WAY.

FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE ACROSS THE STATE JUST THIS ONE EXAMPLE, GOVERNOR HOCHUL PUT A BILLION DOLLARS INTO MENTAL HEALTH.

YES.

A BIG PIECE OF THAT IS HOUSING, BUT A BIG PIECE OF THAT ARE SERVICES SO WE HAVE 13 COMMUNITY BEHAVIORAL HEALTH CENTERS IN NEW YORK STATE.

WE WILL HAVE 39 IN TWO YEARS.

THAT'S A HUGE INVESTMENT IN SERVICES.

NOW IT TAKES TIME FOR THAT TO GET OUT AND IT ALSO WE HAVE TO HAVE THE STAFF FOR THOSE SERVICES.

RIGHT.

BUT GOVERNMENT IN NEW YORK STATE HAS INVESTED A HUGE AMOUNT OF DOLLARS IN EXPANDING MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES IN RECOGNITION FOR JUST WHAT YOU SAID, THAT THE RESOURCES HAVE TO BE THERE AND THAT WE HAVE TO GROW THEM NOW ESPECIALLY SINCE THE NEED HAS GROWN.

SO THERE IS A HUGE GOVERNMENT INVESTMENT.

THE OTHER PIECE, I THINK, IS TO HAVE INSURERS ALSO RECOGNIZE THE INVESTMENT.

BY THAT, I MEAN COMMERCIAL INSURERS.

THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU ABOUT.

I BELIEVE, TRUTHFULLY, THE COMMERCIAL INSURANCE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO PAY AT A RATE THAT IS AT LEAST THE EQUIVALENT OF MEDICAID OR MORE.

OFTEN THEY DO NOT, WHICH IS INTERESTING.

SO I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT IN TERMS OF THE PUBLIC SECTOR.

SO I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT COMMERCIAL INSURANCE BE PARTNERS ON MAKING SURE THAT THERE'S ACCESS, REAL ACCESS FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH MENTAL HEALTH, AND THAT MEANS MAKING SURE JUST LIKE YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN GET TO A CARDIOLOGIST IF YOU NEED ONE, YOU SHOULD HAVE NETWORKS AND THE ACCESS POINTS FOR INDIVIDUALS TO GET MEANT AT HEALTH SERVICES AND COMMERCIAL INSURANCE SHOULD BE MORE INVOLVED, I THINK, IN BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT AND MAKING SURE THAT ACCESS IS THERE.

FOR COMMERCIALLY INSURED INDIVIDUALS.

THINK ABOUT HOW WE THINK ABOUT THESE THINGS SO DIFFERENTLY FROM PHYSICAL HEALTH.

IF I HAVE PAIN IN MY CHEST, I'M GOING TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM.

IF I'M FEELING I MAY BE ENTERING A DEPRESSION, IF I'M SOMEBODY WHO HASN'T EXPERIENCED THAT BEFORE, MAYBE I DON'T KNOW THAT I NEED HELP AND THEN IF MY INSURANCE COMPANY SAYS, WELL, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY OUT-OF-POCKET $300 TO SEE A THERAPIST, I'M PROBABLY NOT EVEN GOING TO FIND OUT IF I NEED THAT HELP.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE STILL-- WE STILL HAVE A STIGMA OUT THERE ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH.

YES.

AND WE SEPARATE IT FROM PHYSICAL HEALTH AND THERE REALLY IS NO DIFFERENCE.

ONE OF THE MAJOR INITIATIVES A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO WAS TO PUSH MENTAL HEALTH EDUCATION IN SCHOOLS.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER THIS.

NEW YORK STATE HAD THE FIRST LAW.

THIS WAS THE MENTAL HEALTH ASSOCIATION WHO DID THIS SO YOU HAD TO HAVE A CURRICULUM FOR MENTAL HEALTH IN SCHOOLS.

SO THE NEXT GENERATIONS THAT GROW UP, HOPEFULLY, WILL NOT HAVE THAT FEAR THAT THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY BREAK THEIR ARM, THEY GO TO THE DOCTOR.

IF YOU FEEL DEPRESSED, YOU GO TO A DOCTOR.

THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THAT STIGMA ANYMORE.

I THINK YOU BEGIN BY EDUCATING PEOPLE EARLY ON AND EDUCATING PARENTS AND KIDS.

SO HOPEFULLY FUTURE GENERATIONS WILL NOT HAVE THAT RELUCTANCE OR WILL NOT HAVE A LITTLE OF THAT, OH, I SHOULD JUST BE ABLE TO GET OVER THIS.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO FEEL LIKE YOU GOT OVER IT.

IF YOU HAVE A FEVER OF 102, YOU GO SEE SOMEBODY.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET YOURSELF OVER IT.

THERE'S HELP OUT THERE.

I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE BIGGEST STUMBLING BLOCKS AND WE NEED TO HAVE THE RESOURCES AND THERE'S A LOT OF RESOURCES AND YOU HAVE TO PARTNER WITH COMMERCIAL INSURERS IN MAKING SURE THOSE RESOURCES ARE THERE.

YES.

STIGMA IS TOP OF THE LIST FOR ME.

I TALK ABOUT MY MENTAL HEALTH ALL THE TIME WITH PEOPLE JUST TO BREAK IT DOWN.

BECAUSE IF I TELL SOMEBODY THAT I STRUGGLE WITH CHRONIC DEPRESSION, THEY'RE GOING TO TELL ME, MAYBE I DO TOO.

THAT JUST MOVES EVERYBODY FORWARD.

WE'LL KEEP AN EYE ON ALL THIS.

DR. ANNE MARIE SULLIVAN, COMMISSIONER OF THE OFFICE OF MENTAL HEALTH, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THANK YOU.

[ THEME MUSIC ] AND AS THE COMMISSIONER SAID, THERE'S A BIG FOCUS RIGHT NOW ON YOUTH MENTAL HEALTH.

IF YOU'RE A TEACHER OR JUST AN ADULT WHO CARES, WE NOW HAVE A NEW YOUTH MENTAL HEALTH TOOL KIT ONLINE.

IT EXPLAINS HOW MENTAL ILLNESS DEVELOPS AND WHAT YOU CAN DO TO HELP.

WE'LL LINK TO THAT ON OUR WEBSITE.

THAT'S AT NYNOW.ORG AND STAYING