nine , eight , seven .

Good evening.

Thank you for watching PBS Fort Wayne.

I think you'll enjoy the next half hour and I think you're going to learn some things that you might find very valuable in your LIFE Ahead.

That's what we do here on this show Estragon.

Try to provide you with education and information to help you with some of your life choices.

Well, tonight our main topic is going to be about probate.

>> What is probate?

How does that work?

Is it a good thing to try to get out of it?

>> What are the parameters?

Well, we have an expert here that can answer those questions for you.

You've met him many times here on LIFE Ahead and he's an attorney I'd like you to meet if you haven't met him already.

>> This is Troy Keystart.

Nice to have you back, Troy.

Hi.

>> Thank you, Sandy .

Very nice to be here.

Good.

Well, you heard me say you have to have information and education for our viewers tonight.

>> Yes.

All right.

And I hope to provide a lot of that OK. And I want to tell you that this is really I mean and sitting here but it's really your show.

>> So we want to talk about what you want to know and that's why we have the phone number up on the bottom of the screen.

We welcome you to call the number down here and give us a call, ask us your question and Troy will answer that for you if you want to.

If you don't mind talking live on the air, that's the best thing that way if Troy has a question back, you're still right there on the phone.

Otherwise if you're not comfortable with that, we do have a phone and answer in the control room that will talk to you and take your question and send it out here on the teleprompter for me to read to Troy.

So that's another way we can do that again.

>> Give us a call (969) 27 twenty .

Well until somebody calls Troy you have to answer my question.

>> No OK, let's start very simply and give me a layman's definition of probate.

>> Sure.

Probate is the process in which a court will oversee the distribution of a person's assets after they pass away.

>> OK, and there is a public policy reason why we have this when someone passes away, we don't want there to be some sort of free for all with their personal property.

>> Oh yeah.

Their personal property, their real estate.

>> How does that get passed on to someone else?

And so over the years going all the way back to when the the country first started and even before it was decided that there was needed to be a process, an orderly process by which those assets were passed down pursuant to the person's will.

>> OK, OK, OK. >> As I recall when we've talked about probate in in past shows Troy, I think that Magistrate Houck told us that this actually originated centuries ago with the Romans and they actually designated somebody in their long flowing down and whatever that was the magistrate.

>> So then it means the same thing.

They're the person in the Roman days and and now that help you make those decisions if you can't come to an agreement is that right?

>> Yes.

Yeah.

In my memory doesn't go back as far as Magistrate Houck's a little older so he remembers those rolling hills around then but so I'll have to take his word for the Roman implications of probate.

>> But yes, that that's their magistrate.

>> How is in Allen County the judicial officer who sits and oversees those probate estates?

>> Let's let's play a little bit of what if what if in my well, I don't list specific things that are assets of mine whether it be a house or car like cottage or wish I had one.

>> You know what if I don't name those things then then is it the probate judge that decides who they go to?

>> Well, actually the way it will is structured you start out with specific gifts.

>> So if there's any items of that you'd have in your will that you've listed.

>> Yes.

Items of personal property, real estate you would say you want those things to go to specific people and then after that a properly structured will will say everything that's left over will go to either my children or to charity.

So we try and avoid having property that is not designated in the will but if it is possible that that situation could arise and if that happens then those assets are distributed pursuant to Indiana state law for example.

>> I mean I have to say a specific thing but so Indiana state law has like a chart or a list of who things would go to if it's not stated in a will.

>> Yep.

Yes, absolutely.

That's right.

It would go when a person passes away part of it would go to their spouse and part of it would go to their children so it would be be split up and it there's a difference between if it's a first spouse or a subsequent spouse and whether there are any children.

>> The distribution percentages are a little bit different and then so it's the magistrate's laws are followed.hat those- >> Well, what if you don't even have them will try what is going to happen to your assets into your property if you if you haven't named any of those things in a will you don't have a will.

>> Yeah, well, you know, one pof the things I hear all the time is I need a will I want a will because I don't want everything to go to the state meaning the state of Indiana.

>> Sure.

And that could happen eventually but that's probably unlikely because that same section of law yeah.

I just talked about that says who gets what percentages by default.

Right if there is no will will cover that as well.

So if there is no will it'll go to children and the spouse and then grandchildren.

If there are any grandchildren it'll walk back up the family tree until it finds someone who's related.

If there really is no one related then potentially it could go to the state of Indiana.

But that's pretty rare.

It is rare I've never encountered so it's kind of a myth then a lot of ways that people will grab onto the worst possible scenario and think that that's going to happen to them.

>> Right.

Well, OK. Is there a place where I could look that up?

I mean what is that gub Dotcom or Indiana dot com?

Is there someplace where I could read what that schedule or what that list of things would show in terms of where assets would go?

>> Yes.

And you would have to ask me for a specific citation.

>> I don't have that right off my tongue but you would probably the best thing to do would be to Google Indiana Code Indiana Code OK and probate I believe it's OK. >> Article twenty nine covers that and I don't know exactly what seconds you did know.

>> Well I know part of it and just do a search for know Will and Indiana probate and or asset distribution maybe.

>> Yeah or give your attorney a call and they'd be able to walk you through that as well.

>> OK OK don't forget we want to answer your questions.

>> Are you here at (969) 27 twenty .

All right let's go over the the basics which we've talked about many times but just to remind people that you need a need to have a personal representative named in your will, what do they do?

>> Yeah, well in Indiana we do call that person a personal representative.

>> We used to call that person an executo.

OK, if and most people are familiar with that term but if yu're a man you're an executor.

>> If you're a woman, you're an executor tricks and I don't like the sound of that.

>> Well, neither did the state legislature so they changed no executive executrix, right?

>> That's right.

Yeah.

So they made it a more modern gender neutral term personal representative.

>> OK, personal representative then they do what?

>> Well they would be normally they would be appointed in the will to oversee under the direction of the court distribution so they would be the ones who would go to the bank and collect accounts.

They would make sure that all the assets are secure so the house is locked up, utilities are paid so the pipes don't freeze really just the day to day management of the estate they would with the help of their attorney prepare an inventory.

>> So you know what the starting point is for the state and then they would go all the way through selling real estate and then finally making paying creditors, OK, are there any outstanding bills and then finally making distribution to the beneficiaries so so so that person representative then do they tell the court like this is where these different assets are going to go?

>> Oh yes.

So typically what would happen we have supervised the states where the court will take a more active role but most estates are unsupervised unsupervised.

>> Yeah.

And that's where the attorney would prepare a petition saying this person's passed away.

>> Here's their will.

Yes, please name the personal representative officially this person is the personal representative and that's where Magistrate Houck will sign off on a court order basically approve that person.

>> Yes, OK, yep.

We have a question here for you, Troy and let's see who this is from.

>> This is from Carl.

Thank you, Carl for watching us here tonight.

>> Carl says What if you were divorced to more than one person and have no will?

>> Hmm.

Would those exes be entitled to money?

Good question.

And I wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't happen fairly often.

>> Yes.

Yeah, that's exactly right and that is a good question, Carl.

State law is pretty clear that if you are no longer married then your exes are not entitled to anything from your estate even if you specifically named your spouse in your will and then subsequently after that got divorced been it the will will not recognize that divorce spouse is receiving anything from the will.

Something you do have to pay particular attention to would be non probate assets and we may get into that a little bit but there would be 401.

KS IRAs often life insurance.

So you want to double check those to make sure former spouses are not named on those as well because those will go to exes if they aren't cha and I understand that beneficiaries take precedence over what's named in a will, is that correct?

>> I mean if somebody like say they have a beneficiary named on some investment in IRA or something but in their well there's a different person named it's the one that's the beneficiary that ends up winning.

>> Yeah, that's exactly right.

>> And the the way things passed down would flow in two tracks.

Oh so you have the probate track which would be the will going through the court but you also have a non probate track and that would be such things as I mentioned for one case IRAs, life insurance those are things that if you have named beneficiaries they will go directly to those beneficiaries without being subject to the will.

>> Hmm.

OK, all right.

That's good information to share.

>> And we have another caller.

Troy, this is Gloria this time and Gloria hi.

And thank you so much for watching us here on LIFE Ahead.

Here's Gloria's question Troy.

She says If my parents told their church that they would get some of their estate but they never put it in writing with their estate go to probate.

>> Good question.

So I'm gathering she's saying that they they told somebody at the church, Pastor Elders or somebody that they're going to get some of the estate but they never put it in writing and they didn't put it in their will.

So does that go to a probate judge or is it settled before?

>> Well, that's a good question and I think it highlights something that people overlook sometimes if it's not in writing in the will it didn't happen.

>> Yeah, I understand that.

I mean somebody can't come up to you, you know, later and say oh, I'm their second cousin and they told me they were going to give me fifty thousand dollars and they told me that at Thanksgiving dinner well unless it's in writing and they've signed it there's no proof.

>> Yeah but that's exactly right and that may have happened.

It would be an awful convenient thing to happen since that person is not here to say that they did or didn't.

>> Yeah but if that's the only way that the system can really work.

Yeah right.

And in that same vein you can only have one original will so you sign a will that is the document but we go by if a copy of that will is made that typically is not valid you can't file that with the court.

OK, the reason being that if A will cannot be found it's assumed to have been destroyed with the intent of revoking it .

I see.

So that's why you really have to keep your will secure and we typically recommend people leave them with us that way.

You know, things happen and it's amazing how often a will will come up missing if it doesn't happen to treat one person or another the same like all of a sudden gee, I thought Grandma said she put that in the desk.

>> I don't know what happened to it.

Well, there you go.

That's a good recommendation for sure or maybe you keep a copy where you keep your secure things but leave a copy at the attorney's office and there should be no dispute on that.

>> What happens, Troy, if you've changed your will, what do you do destroy the first one or how do you what do you do if you've updated it?

Maybe your circumstances have changed?

Yeah, there's a couple of different ways we handle that.

Typically an amendment to a will would be done by a codicil, OK, where you would make just the specific changes that you would want to make and then you would put that sign it and keep that with the original will.

>> OK, that was much more common when we used to have to type out wills.

Oh yeah.

Or even I've seen them handwritten well now with computers we probably if we prepared your will still have that will in digital format we can go and make the changes and then we usually just have our clients sign a whole new will at that time with those changes with these changes OK and we have a Roxann on the phone with us tonight.

>> Hi Roxann.

Roxane, what's your question for Troy tonight?

>> Hi.

Hi.

Yeah it's a little bit complicated but my mother passed away ten years ago and she did have a trust and in that trust I also there are two siblings myself and my older brother and my brother is named as the I guess like the first trustee and he has he lives in another country and has never come back.

>> Oh to Fort Wayne and now the actual funds were divided.

Most of them were through a bank and so forth.

So but I just wondered like if so it's been ten years and there's a property involved and it was you know it was it went to both of us.

But is there a length of time that a trust needs to be like totally fulfilled and all the paperwork is settled?

>> Yeah, Yeah.

Oh, that does sound complicated.

Catherine, I'm so sorry I'm so sorry about that.

But it sounds like a situation a lot of people might be in where the person and I was going to ask about this what if the personal trustee or the personal representative isn't doing what they're supposed to do or in this case I think she said ten years I think.

>> But Roxann said it was ten years ten years just past me.

>> OK, ten years this past May.

So is there a length of time where this has got to be settled and determined?

>> Yeah, well first let me say Roxann, this is a very fact specific case, OK?

And I would urge you to speak with an attorney.

I'm an attorney but I'm not your attorney so I want to make sure we have those those boundaries set.

And I also want to say that trusts are one of those non probate assets that we talked about earlier so they aren't associated with a will or that probate process.

>> And what part of that means is unless the trust says otherwise, it's really pretty open ended now the trustee has a fiduciary duty to do what's in the best interest of the beneficiary but and sometimes that means wrapping things up as quickly as possible.

>> But there's no one there like the court to push things along so things can tend to stretch out.

And so I would recommend opening communication with the trustee, try and get things moving.

If not, the ultimate relief would be to what they call Dockett the trust with the court and have the magistrate or judge intervene and be able to move things along for you.

>> Would he make the decision or would he just appoint a new personal representative?

>> Well, in that case it would it would be a trustee potentially trustee.

Yeah.

If the trustee was really being negligent in their duties.

Yeah.

Perhaps the judge or magistrate certainly could replace them.

OK, that's that's relatively rare.

More often the court would just order them to wrap things up and and get things moving along and if they don't they could face repercussions if the court so even though even though he's and the brother is in another country.

>> Well and that gets to the facts specific situation that makes it even more complicated .

You know, if a person is out of the country or even in another state, there's some question as to which state law applies and which court has jurisdiction.

So that's a whole that's a first hurdle that would have to be overcome in this particular situation.

>> I do have sympathy with rocks and this has gone on for ten years like you want to get this settled.

>> OK, good luck with you, Roxann and I'd love for you to let us know how that turns out.

Catherine, you're on the line now with Troy.

>> What question do you have for him this evening?

Oh, I was wondering my mom is in a nursing home.

OK, OK.

He's got his family.

She's got his son but he ain't doing his duty or anything you haven't seen haven't come around or nothing on his only daughter and they they can't find him or anything so they need to be the beneficiary to my and her son.

Any advice for Katherine on this?

She's in a nursing home.

They want her to be the beneficiary.

>> But this would take legal process, right?

Yes.

We just say beneficiary is they would depend on if that's a will or some other legal document and if the mother is incapacitated, if she has dementia or something like that, it would limit what can be done.

But it sounds like we'd want to get into more details on this one as well because it it could go a number of different ways depending on the situation and exactly what she's a beneficiary of and who else is in the in the picture and I'm not an attorney Katherine, what I would recommend you do see an attorney because it sounds like this could be complicated and you want to make sure it's all done legally correct.

>> OK, we'll go back to some questions here but there's still time for you to call with your question at (969) 27 twenty .

>> OK, let's talk about that personal representative Roxann mentioned her brother was living out of the country and it's been ten years now trying to get their property settlement defined.

If you will.

>> Is it a good idea to make sure your personal representative formerly executor live in your state or could they live in another another part of the country?

>> How does that work?

Ideally you would want that person living in the state and even locally because it's just easier to get things done.

>> That's right.

I mentioned going to the bank, dealing with real estate, dealing with personal property vehicles.

>> It's really helpful to be in the same community in order to physically do those things.

>> Now having said that, we're becoming a much more mobile world.

We have telecommunications.

It's much easier for an out of state personal representative to do their job.

However, there is one little downside and out of state personal representative most likely will need to post a bond to make sure that they're doing their job according to law and a bond is basically an insurance policy that if they don't do their job and money comes up missing then the insurance company will make the estate whole I say OK, OK. >> A financial question for us here now Fred just called Troyes and Fred's question is creating a will and expensive process.

>> I'm on a fixed income big question.

Probably a lot of you out there are wondering the same thing.

I know we can't give a specific amount because it's going to vary depending on how complex your your will is, how how many meetings you have to have with the attorney to get that all settled.

>> But is there a rough minimum maximum?

>> Well that's a hard question.

I really almost unfair and I mean it's almost I mean I could throw out I will throw out a range but I mean it's so broad that it's yeah it's practically useless but it's anywhere from zero dollars up to several thousand just depending on the situation and in fact we just finished with our writer Will.

>> Oh right.

Great program.

Right.

And that that provides wheels for free so that those types of opportunities come once a year opportunity once a year and usually towards the end of October and it's advertised on in the local media.

Right.

You would call and sign up and attorneys volunteer their time in order to help people such as the caller prepare their wills and what would be it at the far end the extreme maximum?

>> Yeah, we would probably be looking at a couple of thousand dollars probably OK. >> All right.

And maybe even three or four thousand and you get into situation where you have the upper you know, the one percent of asset owners they have a lot of tax situations complicated.

It gets complicated and it quickly grows to being more than just the will got and it will becomes just a part of their settling the estate.

OK, again I know that that doesn't give you a specific but hopefully a little bit of guidance.

Well tomorrow you've been wonderful about sharing information on wills and trusts and probate.

>> We hope that you've gained some insight from all of this and we'll be talking about it again I'm sure here on LIFE Ahead.

Meanwhile, I appreciate all of you for watching us here this evening and we'll be on again next Wednesday night.

New topic new guests again up for the rest of this evening and the rest of the week.

>> Stay healthy and stay safe.

Good night