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♪♪ >>> HELLO, WELCOME TO "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE."

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

JOINING US THIS WEEK, AS WE ATTEMPT TO EXPLAIN AND HOPEFULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK ARE THREE TOP TRENTON TEMPERATURE TAKERS, COLLEEN O'DAY, MATT ARCO, AND CHARLIE STYLES IS THE POLITICAL COLUMNIST FOR THE RECORD "USA TODAY" NETWORK.

WE WILL HEAR FROM THEM IN JUST A FEW MINUTES, BUT WE BEGIN TODAY WITH ONE OF THE LEGISLATURE'S STEADIER HANDS, MOVING UP TO THE SENATE WHEN THEY RECONVENE IN JANUARY, HE'S ALSO ONE OF THE FUNNIEST MEN IN POLITICS, ASSEMBLYMAN JOHN BRENIC.

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS HAS CALLED A RACE FOR GOVERNOR MURPHY, BUT JACK CIATTARELLI HAS NOT YET CONCEDED.

WE'RE HEARING NOW FROM CIATTARELLI AND OTHER REPUBLICANS THAT WE NEED TO, QUOTE, COUNT EVERY LEGAL VOTE.

WE HEARD THAT LANGUAGE AFTER THE 2020 ELECTION WITH TRUMP.

WHERE OVER 56,000 VOTES SEPARATING THESE TWO GUYS ON FRIDAY MORNING.

IS THIS RACE OVER?

AND SHOULD JACK CIATTARELLI CONCEDE?

>> WELL, I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH SOMEBODY LOOKING CLOSELY AT THE VOTES.

JACK'S NOT SAYING IT WAS STOLEN.

HE'S NOT SAYING IT WAS FRAUD, NOT THE STUFF THAT TRUMP DID, WHICH WAS CRAZY.

HE'S JUST SAYING, IT'S A CLOSE ELECTION, LET'S MAKE SURE ALL THE VOTES ARE COUNTED.

IT'S A FOUR-YEAR TERM.

THAT'S NOT A TERRIBLE THING TO DO.

I DON'T THINK HE'S REJECTING ANY PROCESS AT ALL, SO I THINK IT'S NOT UNREASONABLE.

>> SO, I MEAN, WHAT'S REASONABLE THEN, IF NEXT WEEK ALL THE VOTES GET COUNTED, SHOULD HE ASK FOR A RECOUNT?

>> ONCE AGAIN, I'M NOT AN EXPERT ON COUNTING VOTES.

I'M NOT SAYING FRAUD.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE ISSUE.

IT LOOKS LIKE HE CAN'T RECOVER HERE WITH THE NUMBERS THAT ARE DOWN, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE MILLIONS OF VOTES AND IT'S A $50,000 -- NOT DOLLAR, 50,000-VOTE MARGIN, YOU CAN UNDERSTAND WHY THEY WANT TO LOOK CLOSELY AT IT.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S TRUMPISM, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.

I THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S A FAIR LOOK AT THE, YOU KNOW, AT THE RETURNS.

>> MAYBE NOT ON THE PART OF JACK CIATTARELLI BUT WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF STUFF ALREADY ONLINE, PEOPLE SAYING SOMETHING AKIN TO, STOP THE STEAL IN NEW JERSEY.

I'M HEARING FROM YOU THAT YOU SENSE THAT THAT'S NOT CONSTRUCTIVE RIGHT NOW.

>> WELL, NOT ONLY IS IT NOT CONSTRUCTIVE, IT'S A SMALL AMOUNT OF CRAZY PEOPLE.

AND I THINK THAT HURTS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

I THINK IT'S A VERY, VERY, VERY SMALL GROUP.

THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER, AND PEOPLE ARE ALL UPSET ABOUT MAIL-IN VOTING.

LIKE, SOMEHOW, YOU KNOW, VOTE BY MAIL IS FRAUD.

YOU KNOW, THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO WOULD HAVE VOTED, THEY JUST DIDN'T GO TO THE POLLS, SO WHEN WE SAY, OH, WE LOST VOTE BY MAIL.

REALLY?

WE LOST BECAUSE THERE'S TOO MANY DEMOCRATS AND GUESS WHAT?

THEY VOTED EARLY.

BUT THERE'S NO EVIDENCE OF FRAUD.

I'M TIRED OF THAT NONSENSE.

JUST DO THE RIGHT THING AND ACT REASONABLE AND GUESS WHAT?

WE MIGHT WIN.

>> ALL RIGHT, IF RESULTS STAY AS THEY ARE, AND THIS ENDS UP BEING JUST A VERY CLOSE RACE AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET, THE QUESTION IS, WHY WAS THIS SO CLOSE?

WITH ALL THE POLLS PREDICTING A PRETTY EASY MURPHY VICTORY?

>> WELL, AGAIN, RED HURRICANE, MEANING, RED WAVE SOMETIMES THEY CALL IT, MEANING THERE WAS A LOT OF ANTI-BIDEN SENTIMENT BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY, HE'S TURNED AROUND AND HE'S UNDER WATER IN THE POLLS.

MURPHY WAS TOO FAR TO THE LEFT.

THIS WAS A REACTION OF THE MIDDLE OF NEW JERSEY.

THE PENDULUM CONTINUES TO SWING BACK AND FORTH IN POLITICS.

LOOK AT EVERY ELECTION.

EVERY ELECTION'S REACTION TO THE LAST ELECTION.

SO, IN THIS CASE, MURPHY WENT TOO FAR TO THE LEFT.

HIS OWN PARTY, LOT OF PEOPLE IN HIS OWN PARTY SAID, HEY, YOU WENT TOO FAR TO THE LEFT.

THE REPUBLICANS WERE ENERGIZED BECAUSE NOW YOU HAD BIDEN AS THE PRESIDENT.

WHAT I THINK THEY MISSED IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, ENERGY WITH INDEPENDENTS, AND KIND OF REACTION TO AN ADMINISTRATION THAT WENT WAY OUT OF BOUNDS.

>> SO, YOU'VE BEEN TALKING TO THE POLLSTERS ALL WEEK.

AND THEY ALL SAY WE MISSED THAT RED WAVE.

AND THAT THAT WAS THE RESULT OF REPUBLICANS NOT JUST PARTICIPATING IN POLLS.

ARE REPUBLICANS IN A SILO IN NEW JERSEY AS FAR AS THAT GOES?

>> WELL, I DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW THE POLLS WORK EXACTLY, BUT IT IS HARD TO MEASURE ENERGY AND ENTHUSIASM.

AND I THINK THAT'S NORMALLY WHERE POLLSTERS MAKE A MISTAKE BECAUSE THEY REACH 300 PEOPLE OR 600 PEOPLE AND SOMETIMES IT'S HARD TO TEST THAT KIND OF PASSION AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT THEY MISS.

TESTING PASSION SHOULD BE THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION, I THINK, IN A POLL, AND ALSO, WHICH WAY THE WIND IS BLOWING.

I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU TEST WHICH WAY THE WIND IS BLOWING, HOW HARD THE WIND IS BLOWING AGAINST YOU, BUT THOSE ARE THE THINGS I THINK POLLSTERS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK AT IN THE FUTURE.

>> ALL RIGHT, LET ME GET A COUPLE OF PANEL QUESTIONS IN HERE.

CHARLIE, YOU HAD A QUESTION.

>> YEAH.

JON, WHAT CAN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY LEARN FROM CIATTARELLI'S NEAR-WIN, IF YOU WILL, AS IT MOVES FORWARD AND TRIES TO REBUILD ITSELF UNDER THE SHADOW OF TRUMP?

BECAUSE TRUMP ISN'T GOING TO GO ANYWHERE, AND HE'S STILL GOING TO BE AN ALBATROSS ON THE PARTY'S NECK, SO HOW DO YOU -- WHAT'S THE FORMULA?

WHAT LESSONS CAN YOU LEARN FROM TUESDAY THAT HELP MAKE THE GOP IN JERSEY MORE RELEVANT?

>> I THINK TRUMP IS GOING AWAY.

AND IT'S EVIDENT BY WHAT HAPPENED DOWN IN VIRGINIA AND YOU COULD SEE THAT EVERYONE WAS DISTANCING THEMSELVES FROM TRUMP.

TRUMP WASN'T IN JERSEY.

HE REALLY WASN'T EMBRACED IN VIRGINIA.

HE'S GOING TO BE IN THE REAR VIEW MIRROR.

I'VE ALWAYS SAID TO THE PEOPLE, LISTEN, MOST OF THE TIME, PEOPLE ARE VOTING AGAINST SOMETHING, SO THEY WERE VOTING AGAINST TRUMP.

NOW, THEY'RE KIND OF VOTING AGAINST DEMOCRATS THAT GO TOO FAR TO THE LEFT.

I THINK THAT WILL BE THE ISSUE.

TRUMP WILL BE FARTHER AND FARTHER IN THE REAR VIEW MIRROR.

I DON'T EVEN THINK HE CAN WIN A PRIMARY.

I THINK THE REPUBLICAN PARTY UNDERSTANDS THAT HE'S NOT HELPFUL AND IT'S JUST TAKING A LITTLE LONGER BECAUSE PEOPLE FEAR TRUMP BECAUSE HE'S ALWAYS SCARING PEOPLE.

HE DON'T SCARE ME.

>> COLLEEN, YOU WANT TO JUMP IN HERE WITH A QUESTION?

>> YEAH, JON, I JUST WANTED TO ASK YOU FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, NOW, WHERE YOU'RE GOING FORWARD, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GOING TO BE GOING FROM BEING THE BOSS IN YOUR CAUCUS IN THE ASSEMBLY TO JUST KIND OF ANOTHER SENATOR.

HOW DO YOU THINK YOU'RE GOING TO -- HOW ARE YOU GOING TO FEEL ABOUT THAT, AND WHAT DO YOU EXPECT YOUR ROLE TO BE?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I FEEL PRETTY GOOD BECAUSE IN TEN YEARS AS THE LEADER, I'M NOT SURE YOU UNDERSTAND, WHEN YOU'RE THE LEADER, YOU GOT TO TRAVEL THE ENTIRE STATE AND KEEP EVERYBODY HAPPY, RIGHT?

WHEN YOU HAVE TO KEEP EVERYBODY HAPPY, THAT MAY BE CONTRIBUTING, THAT MAY MEAN MEETINGS IN SOUTH JERSEY AND NORTH JERSEY.

YOU KNOW, TEN YEARS IS PLENTY TO BE LEADER.

INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, THE TITLE "SENATOR" -- PEOPLE COME UP, OH, CONGRATULATIONS, YOU'RE NOW A SENATOR.

I WAS THE REPUBLICAN LEADER IN THE HOUSE.

I GO LIKE THIS.

THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS.

WHICH ASSEMBLY OF GOD ARE YOU WITH?

WHAT DO YOU ASSEMBLE?

BUT WHEN YOU SAY, SENATOR, THEY GO, WHAT HAPPENED TO MENENDEZ AND BOOKER AND HOW OFTEN ARE YOU GOING TO BE IN WASHINGTON?

THE TITLE HELPS YOU IN TERMS OF IT'S LESS PEOPLE IN THE SENATE.

I THINK YOU CAN DO A LOT OF THINGS IN THE SENATE.

SO, I'M NOT TERRIBLY WORRIED ABOUT BEING IN A BACK ROW.

I THINK MY VOICE WILL BE HEARD ANYWAY.

>> ALL RIGHT, SO, ASSUMING THE RESULTS STAY AS THEY ARE AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET, THE BIGGEST NEWS COMING OUT OF THE ELECTION IS THE APPARENT DEFEAT OF SENATE PRESIDENT STEVE SWEENEY BY AN UNKNOWN TRUCK DRIVER NAMED EDWARD DURR.

WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED THERE, ASSEMBLYMAN?

>> FIRST OF ALL, I LOVE STEVE.

GOOD FRIEND.

BUT HE GOT OUT-BLUE-COLLARED.

HISTORICALLY, STEVE SWEENEY WAS THIS BLUE-COLLAR IRON WORKER IN A DISTRICT THAT WAS A RED DISTRICT THAT VOTED FOR TRUMP.

AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, SOMEBODY CAME ALONG THAT OUT-BLUE-COLLARED HIM IN A DISTRICT THAT REALLY IS A REPUBLICAN DISTRICT.

IN A STORM OR IN A HURRICANE OF A RED WAVE.

I DON'T CARE HOW MUCH MONEY YOU THROW AT THAT RED WAVE WHEN YOU HAVE THIS KIND OF BLUE-COLLAR, SIMPLE APPROACH.

IT WORKED.

AND IT WORKED BECAUSE THERE WAS VERY LITTLE STEVE COULD DO TO STOP THAT.

>> AND NOW YOU HAVE EDWARD DURR, WHO A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE WAKING UP THIS WEEK AND FINDING THAT HE'S A GUY WHO'S TO THE RIGHT OF MIKE DORTY.

ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT SOME OF WHAT ED DURR HAS SAID IN THE PAST IS GOING TO COME BACK TO HAUNT HIM AND FURTHER TAINT THE PARTY?

>> WELL, THERE WERE SOME COMMENTS THAT ARE DEEPLY DISTURBING, BUT HE WAS VOTED IN BY THAT DISTRICT, SO WHAT WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND IS WHEN THAT DISTRICT VOTES IN THIS BLUE-COLLAR SO-CALLED CONSERVATIVE, THAT HE WILL BE A VOICE IN TRENTON BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE MAJORITY IN THE SENATE.

WE DON'T HAVE THE MAJORITY IN THE ASSEMBLY.

AND THERE'S STILL A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR AS FAR AS I CAN SEE.

SO, IT MAY BE A REPUBLICAN VOICE, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S CHANGING THE NATURE OF POLITICS IN TRENTON.

>> ALL RIGHT, GOOD STUFF.

JON BRAMNICK, SENATOR-ELECT, A LITTLE DOWN TIME BEFORE THE HOLIDAYS, THEN BACK AT IT.

GOOD TO SEE YOU, MAN.

THANKS FOR COMING ON.

>> GREAT TO SEE EVERYBODY.

HAVE A GREAT DAY.

>> ALL RIGHT, PANEL, COLLEEN, MATT, CHARLIE, GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL.

SO, BRIGHT-EYED AND BUSHY-TAILED AFTER A LONG WEEK.

LET ME GET A QUICK TAKE FROM ALL OF YOU ON WHAT YOU THINK HAPPENED THIS WEEK.

COLLEEN, WE'VE BEEN ON TELEVISION AND PANELS SO MUCH THIS WEEK, PEOPLE ARE CALLING US GEORGE AND GRACIE.

I'LL ASK YOU FOR THE FINAL TIME THIS WEEK, WHAT HAPPENED?

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, IT'S SOMETHING THAT THE DEMOCRATS JUST DIDN'T ANTICIPATE FROM GOVERNOR MURPHY DOWN TO STEVE SWEENEY.

THE REPUBLICANS WERE ENERGIZED.

REPUBLICANS WERE CHARGED UP.

THEY WANTED TO GO OUT, I THINK, IT WAS PARTIALLY DUE TO THAT WHOLE, GET A DEMOCRAT IN THE WHITE HOUSE, AND YOU GET A REPUBLICAN OR YOU GET A REPUBLICAN WAVE OF SORTS IN NEW JERSEY.

I THINK THAT WAS PART OF IT.

YOU KNOW, JACK CIATTARELLI WAS A VERY GOOD CANDIDATE.

HE'S WELL-SPOKEN.

HE'S VERY PERSONABLE.

HE WAS OUT ALL OVER THE STATE.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT HE CERTAINLY RESONATED WITH VOTERS AND I THINK IT WAS THOSE ADS THAT THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS ASSOCIATION SPENT, LIKE, GOING TO BE CLOSE TO $4 MILLION IF NOT MORE BY THE TIME ALL THE MONEY'S COUNTED, YOU KNOW, JUST KIND OF HAMMERING HOME PHIL MURPHY SAYING, IF TAX RATE IS YOUR ISSUE, NEW JERSEY IS NOT YOUR STATE.

I THINK ALL THOSE THINGS COMBINED TO REALLY SURPRISE THE DEMOCRATS.

>> MATT, IT FEELS LIKE THE DEMOCRATS WERE, LIKE, RUNNING A MARATHON AND REPUBLICANS WERE SPRINTING.

WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED OUT THERE?

>> LOOK, I'VE SAID IT BEFORE, AND IT'S THE IDEA OF THE ENTHUSIASM GAP IS ON FULL DISPLAY DURING THIS RACE AND I LIKE SOMETHING THAT THE ASSEMBLYMAN, SOON TO BE SENATOR SAID ABOUT POLLSTERS AND KIND OF MAYBE THEY HAVE A -- I THINK HE WAS SAYING MAYBE THEY HAVE TO GET OUT OF THE FIELD A LITTLE BIT.

I THINK THAT WOULD HAVE CHANGED SOME OF THE POLLING THAT WE SAW, BECAUSE WHAT I SAW BEING IN THE FIELD, COVERING JACK'S EVENTS, COVERING THE GOVERNOR'S EVENTS, WAS A HUGE ENTHUSIASM GAP, AND WE ALL -- AND IT'S ALL IN MY COPY, THAT REGISTERED DEMOCRATS OUTNUMBER REPUBLICANS BY MORE THAN 1 MILLION VOTERS BUT WHEN YOU GO OUT AND YOU SEE HOW ENERGIZED THESE FOLKS WERE THAT WERE GOING TO JACK'S RALLY, THAT TELLS YOU SOMETHING, AND WHEN YOU GO TO PHIL MURPHY'S CAMPAIGN EVENTS AND YOU SEE HOW LACKLUSTER THE ENTHUSIASM THERE WAS, THAT'S REALLY TELLING.

I MEAN, FORMER PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA CAME TO NEWARK AND THEY HAD -- I DIDN'T ATTEND THE EVENT.

MY COLLEAGUE DID.

BUT I SAW THE PICTURES FROM IT AND I WAS SORT OF ASTOUNDED THAT IT LOOKED LIKE THERE WERE ONLY 500 OR 700 PEOPLE THERE AND I REMEMBER CALLING MY COLLEAGUE AND BEING LIKE, WHAT WAS GOING ON?

SO, WITH POLITICAL POLLING NOWADAYS, THERE HAS TO BE -- IT'S NOT JUST POLICY POLLING.

YOU HAVE TO SORT OF -- AND I WON'T BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN THIS WELL BECAUSE I'M NOT A POLLSTER, BUT THERE'S SOME SUBJECTIVE NATURE TO TRY TO COMPENSATE FOR, YOU KNOW, WHAT PEOPLE MAY OR MAY NOT ACTUALLY BE TELLING YOU ON THE PHONE AND IT SEEMS AS THOUGH GOING OUT, SEEING THE ENERGY, MIGHT BE A WAY TO SORT OF COUNTER THAT AND I REALLY THINK JON REALLY HIT THAT ON THE MARK.

>> CHARLIE, A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT ENTHUSIASM GAP BUT ALWAYS THE RESPONSE TO THAT WAS, YEAH, BUT THERE'S A MILLION MORE DEMOCRATS AND THE UNDECIDED OR UNAFFILIATED TEND TO BREAK THE DEMOCRATS' WAY.

I MEAN, I GUESS THAT KIND OF WAS WHAT PEOPLE WERE LOOKING AT.

IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED, THAT SUDDENLY DEMOCRATS JUST STAYED HOME AND THE INDEPENDENTS SPLIT MORE FOR THE REPUBLICAN THAN WE EXPECTED?

>> I THINK SO.

I MEAN, I WAS AT AN EVENT ON THE SUNDAY BEFORE THE ELECTION OR TEN DAYS BEFORE THE ELECTION, SOULS TO THE POLLS AND THEN IN TRENTON, AND AS MATT SAID ABOUT THE OBAMA RALLY, THIS ONE INCLUDED JAMES CLYBURN, MURPHY SHOWED UP, AND BASICALLY IN THE PARKING LOT WHAT YOU HAD WERE A BUNCH OF, YOU KNOW, TRENTON, MERCER COUNTY DEMOCRATS, MILLING AROUND, WAITING ON LINE TO GET THAT FREE BARBECUE IN THE CORNER.

IT WAS REALLY NO -- IT WAS AN EMPTY PARKING LOT, BY AND LARGE, AND I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF -- SHIRLEY TURNER MENTIONED TO ME SHE WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THE MALAISE.

SENATOR SHIRLEY TURNER FROM MERCER COUNTY.

SHE JUST SAID IT CANDIDLY, AND I THINK SHE WAS RIGHT.

I THINK THE MALAISE COMES DOWN TO A LOT OF FACTORS.

I THINK IT'S THE GLOBAL CONCERN ABOUT BIDEN AND HIS TANKING POLL NUMBERS, THE ANTI-INFLATION, CONCERNS ABOUT SUPPLY LINES AND IN THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY, THEY'VE FELT THEY WERE -- SOME FELT THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY PUT ALL THAT EFFORT INTO GETTING BIDEN ELECTED LAST YEAR AND WHAT DO WE HAVE TO SHOW FOR IT?

>> LET ME GET YOUR THOUGHTS REAL QUICK ON THE IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH OF ALL OF THIS, AND THAT IS CONCESSION.

WE'RE ALREADY SEEING AN ORGANIZED EFFORT ON SOCIAL MEDIA TRYING TO CALL THIS A STOLEN ELECTION.

CIATTARELLI WAS ON TWITTER THURSDAY TO SHARE HIS THOUGHTS ON THAT.

HERE'S A BIT OF WHAT HE HAD TO SAY.

>> HERE IS WHERE WE STAND.

FIRST, WE'RE GOING TO ALLOW THE 21 COUNTIES TO CONTINUE WITH THE PROCESS OF COUNTING EVERY LEGAL VOTE BY MAIL AND PROVISIONAL BALLOT.

THAT COULD TAKE ANOTHER WEEK OR TWO AND WE'VE GOT COMPLIANCE PEOPLE WATCHING OVER THAT.

IF NECESSARY, ANY DECISION ON A RECOUNT OR AUDIT WILL COME AT THE VERY END OF THE COUNTING PROCESS, NOT BEFORE.

SECOND, I DON'T WANT PEOPLE FALLING VICTIM TO WILD CONSPIRACY THEORIES OR ONLINE RUMORS WHILE CONSIDERATION IS PAID TO ALL CREDIBLE REPORTS, PLEASE DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU SEE OR READ ONLINE.

>> CHARLIE, HERE WE GO AGAIN OR WHAT?

>> NO, I DON'T THINK SO.

I THINK THAT WAS VERY RESPONSIBLE COMMENT.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING YOU COULD KIND OF FACTUALLY REALLY CHALLENGE.

I DON'T THINK HE NODDED TOO MUCH TO THE FROTHED-UP CONSPIRACY BASE OF THE PARTY.

AND LET'S BE REAL.

I MEAN, I THINK HE'S -- THERE'S -- JACK CIATTARELLI, RIGHT NOW, HAS A FUTURE.

HE'S THE ODDS-ON FAVORITE FOR THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION, OBVIOUSLY FOR 2025 IF HE WANTS IT.

YOU COULD ARGUE HE'S THE ODDS-ON FAVORITE FOR GOVERNOR IN 2025.

THE DEMOCRATS DO NOT HAVE A STATEMENT CANDIDATE RIGHT NOW THAT HAS THE SAME STATEWIDE RECOGNITION AS JACK CIATTARELLI SO HE'S IN A GOOD POSITION.

I DON'T SEE ANY UPSIDE TO JACK CIATTARELLI TURNING THIS INTO A CONSPIRACY-LACED FIGHT TO THE END.

>> MATT, NO FUEL FOR THAT FIRE?

>> NO, BECAUSE IN NEW JERSEY, A RECOUNT IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN IN OTHER STATES.

ONE, THERE'S NO AUTOMATIC RECOUNT.

THE CRITERIA IS IF IT'S A 1% RACE, THE STATE PAYS FOR THE RECOUNT, IF ONE IS GRANTED.

THIS ONE ISN'T.

I DON'T THINK HE'S GOING TO HAVE TROUBLE FUND-RAISING FOR IT.

I THINK THAT WON'T BE A PROBLEM AT ALL BUT YOU HAVE TO PETITION A COURT IN EACH COUNTY, SO -- AND YOU ALSO HAVE TO PROVE TO THE COURT THAT -- OR ARGUE BEFORE THE COURT THAT THERE'S SUFFICIENT REASON FOR A RECOUNT.

SO THIS COULD -- THIS WILL -- COULD EASILY LOSE STEAM VERY QUICKLY.

BUT IN JACK'S DEFENSE, THIS WAS A VERY CLOSE RACE.

IT'S GOING TO KEEP HIS NAME OUT THERE FOR A LITTLE BIT LONGER.

I THINK THAT HE'LL HAVE NO TROUBLE FUND-RAISING FOR IT, SO YOU KNOW, WHY NOT?

AND BECAUSE OF WHAT CHARLIE JUST SAID, ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

I MEAN, FOUR YEARS FROM NOW, JACK CIATTARELLI STANDS TO BE THE LEADER OF THIS PARTY AND GIVE IT ANOTHER SWING.

>> IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT BEFORE THE A.P.

CALLED THIS, THE GOVERNOR WAS ALSO SAYING, ON ELECTION NIGHT, LET'S COUNT EVERY VOTE.

HE SHOULD HAVE SAID, LET'S COUNT EVERY VOTE UNLESS THE A.P.

CALLS ME THE WINNER.

I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT THE BIGGEST STORY OF THE WEEK, ASSUMING THE TOP OF THE TICKET RESULTS STAY THE SAME IS THE DEFEAT OF SENATE PRESIDENT STEVE SWEENEY.

COLLEEN, WHO IS EDWARD DURR AND HOW DID HE BEAT STEVE SWEENEY ON A BUDGET OF $40 WORTH OF BITCOIN?

>> YOU KNOW, HE'S A TRUCK DRIVER, AND HE RAN TWO YEARS AGO.

HE'S A REPUBLICAN, AND HE SEEMS, AS I GUESS I MIGHT GO WITH WHAT YOU SAID TO THE RIGHT OF MIKE DOUGHERTY, WHICH MEANS HE SEEMS VERY CONSERVATIVE.

YOU KNOW, HE SPENT ALMOST NOTHING ON THIS RACE, BUT I HAVE TO SAY, AND I DIDN'T LOOK TOO CLOSELY INTO THIS, BECAUSE IT'S BEEN A BUSY WEEK WITH OTHER THINGS, LIKE THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, BUT I DID LOOK AT THE LAST ELECT REPORT FROM STEVE SWEENEY AND THAT SHOWED THAT IN THE LAST -- BETWEEN THE 20 DAYS BEFORE AND 11 DAYS BEFORE THE ELECTION, HE SPENT $150.

NO ONE SAW THIS COMING, INCLUDING STEVE SWEENEY, AND YOU KNOW, AND HIS FOLKS.

SO, HE REALLY DID NOT KNOW THAT THIS WAVE WAS GOING TO WASH OVER HIM, AS CHRIS RUSSELL SAID.

YOU KNOW, I THINK IT WAS JUST A CASE OF, YOU KNOW, BEING CAUGHT OFF GUARD, SO NOT KIND OF DEFENDING YOUR TURF AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA THAT IN SOME PLACES, THE WAY IS BALLOT IS STRUCTURED IS, YOU KNOW, EDWARD DURR'S NAME WAS RIGHT UNDER STEVE SWEENEY'S, AND SO PEOPLE -- EXCUSE ME.

RIGHT UNDER JACK CIATTARELLI, SO PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING OUT AND EXCITED BY THE CIATTARELLI CAMPAIGN WERE JUST GOING TO GO, YOU KNOW, DOWN THE LINE REPUBLICAN OR CERTAINLY AT LEAST RIGHT BELOW HIM.

SO, I THINK THAT'S ALL OF WHAT HAPPENED TO STEVE SWEENEY.

AND HE JUST, YOU KNOW, SOUTH JERSEY HAS BECOME REDDER AND REDDER OVER THE LAST COUPLE YEARS AND WE REALLY SAW THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS WEEK.

>> SO, IF STEVE SWEENEY IS OUT, WE'RE LOOKING AT A NEW EPISODE OF "SUCCESSION."

WHO'S THE NEXT SENATE PRESIDENT?

WE'VE GOT THE WEED AND JUDGES GUY, THE BUDGET COMMITTEE BOSS, SOMEBODY WHO SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR FOREVER AND THE MOST INTRIGUING CANDIDATE, IN MY MIND, MAJORITY LEADER DESIGNATE, TERESA RUIZ.

DISCUSS.

CHARLIE?

>> I THINK THEY'RE ALL -- IT'S GOING TO BE A MAD SCRAMBLE, AND RIGHT NOW, I DON'T SEE ANYBODY REALLY GETTING THE MAJORITY VOTES NEEDED AT THIS STAGE.

I MEAN, THIS IS -- WE'RE STILL IN THE MUSHROOM CLOUD OF THIS NEWS.

SO, APPARENTLY, THOUGH, SOUTH JERSEY AND SWEENEY, PERSONALLY, HAS BEEN SUPPORTIVE OF NICK, THAT'S HIS PREFERENCE.

WHETHER THEY CAN PARLAY THAT INTO A MAJORITY IS YET TO BE SEEN BUT I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF TEA LEAF READING AND A LOT OF JOCKEYING OVER THE NEXT TEN DAYS.

>> MATTHEW, FOR WHAT IS SUPPOSEDLY A PROGRESSIVE PARTY, THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF WHITE GUYS EITHER IN CHARGE OR CALLING WHO'S IN CHARGE NEXT.

DO YOU HAVE THOUGHTS ON THAT?

>> YEAH, I WAS GOING TO SAY, DAVE, I MEAN, THE NAMES OF THE PEOPLE YOU RATTLED OFF ARE THE SAME NAMES OF FOLKS THAT I AM HEARING ARE JOCKEYING FOR IT OR, YOU KNOW, COULD BE IN POSITION FOR IT.

WITH THE EXCEPTION OF TERESA RUIZ, WHO NOBODY'S REALLY -- HER NAME IS CERTAINLY OUT THERE.

BUT NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT HER IN THE SAME WAY THAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER, YOU KNOW, THREE WHITE MEN.

>> SHE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE TRYING TO WHIP ANY VOTES EITHER.

>> WELL, LOOK, I WOULD SAY THAT SHE COMES OUT OF ETHICS AND JOE DEAN DID HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH STEVE SWEENEY, SO IT MAY LOOK LIKE BAD FORM TO BE SORT OF STOMPING ON HIS GRAVE BEFORE IT'S ACTUALLY OFFICIAL.

YOU KNOW, LIKE JACK CIATTARELLI, STEVE SWEENEY IS SAYING HE WANTS TO WAIT UNTIL ALL THE VOTES ARE COUNTED.

BUT NO, LOOK, BACK TO YOUR EARLIER POINT, I MEAN, IT'S VERY TELLING THAT WE HAVE A DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN THE STATE AND ODDS FAVORITES ARE THAT THE PERSON THAT'S GOING TO BE THE NEXT SENATE PRESIDENT IS NOT GOING TO LOOK LIKE THE STATE'S DEMOCRATIC PARTY, AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, INTERESTING ON A NUMBER OF LEVELS.

IT GIVES YOU A SENSE OF WHAT DEMOCRATS IN TRENTON THINK SHOULD BE THE CASE GOING FORWARD.

>> SO, WHAT DO YOU GET WHEN A LAME DUCK GOVERNOR AND A NEW SENATE PRESIDENT TRY TO FASHION AN AGENDA AMID PALACE INTRIGUE AND AN ORNERY ELECTORATE?

COLLEEN, SEEMS LIKE THE RECIPE FOR DISASTER.

>> IT'S CERTAINLY NOT A RECIPE FOR PHIL MURPHY GETTING HIS AGENDA PASSED.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THE REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM ACT IS SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BRING AN AWFUL LOT OF AMENDING OVER THE NEXT FEW WEEKS, AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, HE REALLY HAS BEEN PUSHING FOR AND PROGRESSIVES HAVE BEEN PUSHING FOR.

I THINK THAT -- YOU KNOW, I DON'T EXPECT THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE MURPHY BECOME LESS PROGRESSIVE.

>> MATTHEW?

IS THERE A SECOND TERM AGENDA?

>> I THINK, ON MONDAY, THERE WAS, AND I THINK ON WEDNESDAY, IN MURPHY'S CAMPAIGN MIGHT THINK THERE'S AN AGENDA, BUT THAT'S DONE.

I MEAN, THE IDEA THAT -- YOU KNOW, A LOT OF LAWMAKERS ARE, ONE, SCARED, AND I THINK A LOT OF LAWMAKERS ARE ALSO ANGRY WITH TUESDAY AND WEDNESDAY'S RESULTS, SO I KNOW THAT GOING INTO ELECTION DAY, THE GOVERNOR WAS ON RECORD SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, HE'S GOING TO HIT THE GROUND RUNNING WITH PUBLIC EVENTS AND TO TRY TO DO AS MUCH AS HE COULD AT LAME DUCK AND PROBABLY UP UNTIL HIS FIRST BUDGET AS A SECOND TERM GOVERNOR, BUT THAT'S ON ICE.

I DON'T SEE THE LEGISLATURE -- THEY ARE SPOOKED BY THIS SORT OF -- THE TALK OF BEING A TOO PROGRESSIVE GOVERNOR, AND I DON'T SEE THEM GOING ALONG WITH MUCH OF ANYTHING.

SO, YEAH, THE GOVERNOR CAN GO OUT AND SAY THAT HE WANTS TO, YOU KNOW, THE DAY AFTER THE ELECTION, HE WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE AN EVENT ABOUT GUN REFORM AND GUN SAFETY REFORM.

I MEAN, ALL OF THAT STUFF IS GOING TO BE CALLED INTO QUESTION, AND HE CAN ASK FOR WHATEVER HE WANTS, BUT THE LEGISLATURE, AFTER SEEING WHAT JUST HAPPENED, I DON'T SEE THEM GOING ALONG WITH MUCH OF ANYTHING AT THIS POINT.

YOU KNOW, REAL QUICK, THE GOVERNOR SAID BEFORE THE ELECTION THAT HE WASN'T GOING TO RAISE ANY TAXES IN A SECOND TERM.

I WONDER IF THE STATE LEGISLATURE'S GOING TO START LOOKING AT, GEEZ, WHAT CAN WE CUT?

BECAUSE YOU KNOW, THEY'RE SPOOKED.

>> SO MUCH ON WHICH TO SPECULATE AND SO LITTLE TIME.

THANKS TO OUR PANEL, COLLEEN, CHARLIE, MATTHEW, AND TO JON BRAMNICK, YOU CAN FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER, @DAVIDCRUZNJ, AND BE SURE TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE YOUTUBE CHANNEL TO GET MORE "CHAT BOX," NJ BUSINESS BEAT WITH RHONDA SCHAFFLER AND NJ SPOTLIGHT NEWS WITH BRIANA VANNOZZI.

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

FOR THE ENTIRE CREW OVER HERE, THANKS FOR WATCHING.

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