♪♪♪ >>Welcome to A World of Difference: Embracing Neurodiversity.

I'm Darryl Owens.

You've probably heard these sayings: "Silence is golden."

"All truth is good to know, but not all truth is good to say."

"Think before you speak."

And of course, "A closed mouth gathers no flies."

There's a good reason these similar sayings abound.

It's to hammer home this important life lesson: "Discretion is the better part of valor."

Perhaps the best example of this happens when well-meaning friends, family, and even strangers, stroll up to the parents of a neurodivergent child and deliver an offhand comment or peace of uninformed, unsolicited advice that leave mom and dad feeling judged, misunderstood, and often ticked off.

Words have power.

And when the words suggest that a child who learns differently is somehow less or odd, or that mom and dad aren't measuring up, words sting.

That's why it's helpful for family, friends, coworkers, and others to understand what not to say to parents of neurodivergent children and understand how to trade those awkward and unhelpful comments for genuine support.

On this episode, we meet an East Coast mom who weathered a wrath of advice that has run the gamut from helpful to hurtful regarding her neurodivergent son.

Next, our panel of national experts will debunk myths and share how to offer genuine support that celebrates neurodiversity.

And you'll meet our latest Difference Maker: an award-winning journalist who channels her experience as an adult with learning differences into articles championing inclusive workforces.

First, we travel to Massachusetts and meet Ginger Schofield, who has endured the frustration, dismissal and even hurt that comes from comments about the behavior, looks, diet, and her parenting of her now preteen son who's navigating a trifecta of learning and attention differences.

Health Day special correspondent, Mabel Jong, brings us their story.

♪♪♪ >>When 12-year-old Francis McGill was diagnosed with autism, his mother, Ginger, became his biggest advocate, learning all she could about the disorder on her own.

And with a team of doctors, therapists, and other experts.

>>He started regressing.

So he was a neurotypical-developing child, meeting his milestones, he was losing his use of words.

He had stopped walking.

And right around 18 months they started to talk to us about autism.

>>The official diagnosis came after Francis turned two.

Ginger says, despite growing awareness about autism, she quickly discovered the disorder is often misunderstood by family, friends, and strangers.

>>I feel like almost instantly, that we were getting unsolicited advice no matter where we went or what we did.

When we first started talking about autism and him getting his diagnosis and sharing that with family.

My husband's side of the family is very, very religious and they were, their suggestion was that they were gonna bring him to church and pray it out.

They were gonna pray the autism out.

>>While the gesture was well-intentioned, Ginger knew there was no cure for autism, which is not a disease, but a neurological developmental disability.

Like many parents with special needs children, she often heard the words, "I'm sorry," when she talked about her son's diagnosis.

>>I don't like the apology when we're...

If we've met someone and we're talking about it and I'm like, oh, well my son is, you know, on the spectrum.

"Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry!"

For what?

What are you apologizing for?

>>Comments about Francis' physical appearance were also common and unhelpful.

>>"But he doesn't look autistic."

It's like, oh, I didn't know that it had a look!

Like I didn't know that that was a thing.

Or, "Thank God he's good looking He'll get by on his looks, everything's gonna be fine!"

Oh, okay.

>>Early intervention, intensive therapy and an individualized education plan when Francis entered elementary school helped restore language and other skills, but behavioral issues remained a challenge.

The disapproving looks and comments they received at the grocery store were sometimes hurtful.

>>You know, they'd approach him and say, "Your mom's trying to do the shopping, honey, you need to behave while you're in here."

And it's like, why do you think it is okay to approach me or, you know, ask my kid to calm down or to behave because I'm trying to do my shopping?

Like you have no idea what's happening!

And I was very much the person that I wanted to talk about it.

To everyone and anyone.

"My son's autistic, do you know what that is?"

"No, I don't."

"Oh, let me explain what that is to you."

>>Noisy restaurants were especially difficult, but Ginger remembers one time when the kindness of an employee gave her hope.

>>Folks were getting upset and making comments and saying things out loud.

And I was like, "We're just, we're gonna go."

And the manager of the restaurant came over and said, "You're not gonna go, it's gonna be okay.

We get it."

"I've got some toys out back, I'll bring out and see if that helps.

But if they're uncomfortable, let them leave."

And I...

I'm gonna cry.

I am gonna cry.

I cried because that was the first time that someone embraced it with us and understood.

>>Over the past decade, many well-meaning people have also offered the family unsolicited medical advice, which can be frustrating.

But Ginger says some dietary suggestions from other autism parents helped Francis both physically and academically.

In fourth grade, after testing revealed he also has dyslexia and dysgraphia, he was transferred to a private school for children with learning differences, and is thriving.

>>Then come to my book club called, "The Reader's Society."

And read like you've never read before.

>>He was elected president of his middle school class, got the lead role in the school play, and started making honor roll.

Ginger says her advice to people who don't understand autism is simple.

"Let's talk about it."

>>I think always come from a place of curiosity, right?

Do you wanna know more?

Do you, I've just shared something with you.

Do you have questions?

Ask me.

You can ask me questions.

I'm not gonna be offended by your questions.

I'm not gonna be offended by your curiosity.

I'm gonna be offended by your judgment.

>>For A World of Difference, I'm Mabel Jong.

♪♪♪ >>Thanks, Mabel.

Next, let's hear from our national panel of experts about things you just shouldn't say to parents of children who learn differently.

♪♪♪ Dr. Susan Courey is a professor of special and general education at Touro University in New York City.

She works with faculty to improve and revise courses to include the most up-to-date evidence-based practices in early childhood education.

Courey is also a professor emerita at San Francisco State University and continues to work with colleagues and doctoral students in the Bay Area.

She's the primary investigator of a five-year US Department of Education, education, innovation, research, early phase grant, young academic music and computational thinking.

Dr. Gilbert Franco is a licensed marriage and family therapist and an assistant professor of psychology at Beacon College in Leesburg, Florida, America's first accredited baccalaureate institution dedicated to educating students with learning and attention issues.

Before Beacon, he served as the lead faculty area chair for psychology for the University of Phoenix, San Diego, California.

Franco also served as clinical director for the McAlister Institute in El Cajon, where he supervised interns studying marriage and family therapy and clinical social work.

Dr. Angela Nelson is the executive director of Clinical Services for Rethink Care, a platform that provides working parents behavioral health support for themselves and their children, including those with developmental disabilities.

Nelson oversees a team of clinicians providing one-to-one parent training to families worldwide.

She leverages both her experience as a board-certified behavior analyst and a counselor with marriage and family specialization to support the needs of families raising children with various learning and behavioral challenges.

Nelson also co-hosts the podcast, behaviorally speaking, which focuses on common scenarios most parents face and provides them tangible, lighthearted tips and techniques.

And we're starting our conversation with Dr. Courey.

How can a stranger's words or actions unknowingly impact a parent or a child with learning and attention issues?

>>Words are really important, and they convey different types of meanings.

And it's very important that our children with any type of learning or attention issues think positively about themselves.

Strangers sometimes unknowingly will say things like, well, I've heard phrases, "He ain't right," or "He just needs more discipline."

When in truth is we really need to look at disability through the lens of ability because any individual, with any type of learning or attention issue has far more abilities than they have disabilities.

And one thing that we can do to really help our children not be affected by negative language is to not use it at home.

And to always be very supportive of our children's ability and also help them to continually believe in themselves and be advocates for themselves and their abilities.

>>Thank you, Dr. Courey.

So Dr. Franco, shame and guilt are often common emotions that parents who are raising neurodivergent children feel.

How can kinds of insensitive comments exacerbate these feelings?

>>Great question.

Great question, Darryl.

So when it comes to, you know, these kinds of comments, it's really important to think about self-efficacy.

Self-efficacy is a person's belief in their ability to do something.

And parents, every parent, you know, experiences some doubt.

And comments such as this can impact their sense of, you know, self-efficacy in their ability to even take care of their child.

When you have people telling them this or that, and putting a parent down, it erodes their self-efficacy.

And in turn, a child is watching and the child is learning from their parents through something called social learning.

So damaging a parent's self-efficacy in turn impacts the child's self-efficacy themselves.

So it really is a downward spiral.

So we really have to watch what we say around parents with, you know, with children with learning differences.

>>So Dr. Nelson, many parents who are raising children who learn differently, often feel isolated, like there's nobody else who's going through these struggles that they are.

How can a stranger's comments intensify this sense of isolation?

>>Yeah, you know, some people don't fully appreciate or kind of understand what it takes to raise a neurodivergent child and all the logistics that goes into that.

And so sometimes even their best attempts at being helpful, like for example, saying things like, "Oh, it will get better," or, "You just need need to do x, y and z."

It could feel very minimizing for those families.

It can also really erode their confidence and feels like an even bigger divide because others may not understand.

Some people don't have much experience interacting with people with disabilities, and so they might have some biases or misconceptions, and so they might actually avoid parents and their children because of the unknown, and that can make isolation even worse.

>>So Dr. Courey, I'm wondering, you know, family and strangers, they're not trained professionals, but sometimes I'm wondering whether teachers who are trained professionals fall into this trap of using insensitive language when they're dealing with parents of neurodivergent children.

>>Yes, and it's hard to rethink when you're not always around neurodivergent children.

But a couple simple things that we can do when we communicate with teachers and other parents is to remember that the child is first.

So we use child-first language, meaning, for example, "My son has Tourette's syndrome."

So he is not a Tourette syndrome-son, he is a child with Tourette's.

So we always wanna use child-first language, and also keep up on proper terms.

For example, we don't use the term "Mental Retardation" anymore.

We use learning differences or cognitive differences.

We always want to be very positive because the positive language that we can help, we can model it for our colleagues, we can model it for other parents.

And always remember that the best thing to call a child is by their first name.

And also the child is not their learning difference.

The child is someone with all kinds of interests and gifts and abilities.

And I think if we continually press that point, spread the word, it will spread and maybe we could even get disability out of our lexicon and use the term "Difference," positive differences.

>>Alright, so Dr. Franco, a lot of times parents are caught flatfooted by comments such as, "They'll grow out of it," or, "They're not trying hard enough."

I'm wondering, is there some way that you can coach parents to better respond to these types of comments, number one, so that they're not ruining a relationship, but also using it as a teaching moment?

>>Thank you, thank you.

So, speaking as a, not just as a therapist, but also as a parent with someone with learning differences, I've been at the other end of that, you know, conversation where I've had, you know, a teacher tell me, "Oh, you know, if they just they just try harder, they'll grow out of it."

Or, you know, "They're just not trying hard enough."

And it is important for, you know, us parents to understand that the educator may not know what it's like to have someone with a learning difference.

So as a therapist, I would work with, you know, my parents in understanding that, you know, oftentimes it is due to lack of education or due to lack of experience.

So it's important to first and foremost, you know, remain calm and you know, and to really try to understand where the educator is coming from.

And then, you know, convey your message in a clear, concise manner so that they understand where you're coming from.

So again, you know, when we get into arguments with teachers and educators, that's when, you know, the help doesn't occur.

So it's important to really coach parents to remain calm, to know their child, to know their diagnosis, to know how to convey this information to the educator in a way that the educator will not feel threatened by it.

>>Watch the full "Ask the Expert" segment on our website at awodtv.org.

If you wanna learn more about this topic.

You can also watch or listen on Facebook, YouTube, or on your favorite podcasting platform.

♪♪♪ And now, let's meet our latest Difference Maker.

As a child, when life became overwhelming, Denise Brodey would plug her ears with her fingers.

Not to shut out the world, but rather to focus.

And when she realized that she was struggling in school, she asked for eyeglasses, not because her vision was faulty, but because she believed it would help her focus.

Brodey wasn't told she was struggling, but she instinctively created her own workarounds to adapt.

Later, after she discovered the power of the pen, Brodey leveled that weapon at the workplace, bringing her insight as an adult with ADHD and dyslexia to bear in bringing focus to the plight of neurodivergent employees in the workforce.

Brodey, through articles for Forbes, the Boston Globe, Thrive Global, HuffPost and Medium distills knowledge with humor, compassion and positivity, and brings attention to the need to neurodiversify the workplace.

You might say, making invisible disabilities visible in the global workplace is, well, her focus.

Chief correspondent, Cindy Peterson, brings us her story.

>>Denise Brodey is a distinguished writer, author, and award-winning journalist, writing and editing for top publications like Forbes, the New York Times, USA Today and Glamour Magazine.

Years before she was diagnosed as an adult with ADHD and dyslexia, Denise was struggling to find out why she was so different.

>>I would ask my mom, "Can I have glasses?"

And she'd say, "I know you wanna look smarter, but you don't need glasses."

And I'd say, "But I can't focus!"

I think that the biggest hindrance to my getting a diagnosis was that I learned so many ways to work around my issues that I became very quiet.

And nobody, I didn't make a fuss.

So that was my accommodation was, okay, I can, if I'm quiet enough and compliant enough, no one will notice me.

>>She always knew she wanted to pursue her creativity and launched a successful career in journalism.

>>I always wanted to be in magazines.

I was a kid who ran to the mailbox to get 17 and Glamour and Time and Newsweek.

What I didn't know was that being in New York, being with a bunch of super creative people was going to be the perfect place for me.

And working on a project basis, with deadlines built in, that was the perfect way for my brain to motivate.

>>However, her creative process didn't always translate well into the workplace.

>>My CFO came in and said, "Hey, people are wondering what all this sort of mess is."

And I said, "That's a color coding system for me."

And this went on and on and on until I ultimately left and became much more of an advocate for adults who are neurodivergent, because I realized my ADHD, my dyslexia, none of it was showing up as being a good worker.

I was a bad employee.

So I started my own business and I said, "Hey, I'm a rebel."

I'm also talented.

I wanted to combine those two things to say, we aren't normal, we don't work normally, but we're also incredibly talented, we're huge assets.

So how can businesses start to understand and combine those two?

In that sense, working that way for 25 years helped me be so successful, helped me rise to the top of a very competitive field and to write a book at the same time about neurodivergent families.

So I wrote this book when I was at Glamour called, "The Elephant in the Playroom."

I was really seeking answers to those wicked, you know, awful questions nobody wants to talk about.

Like, what do you do about your in-laws?

What happens when there's no more medication and you don't wanna send it to camp?

What happens when your kid doesn't have any play dates?

And after I wrote that book, that's when I realized we need more of this.

I want to do more to bring out the voices of neurodivergent workers.

And I had at that time, left magazines.

So I began Rebel Talent.

And that's really all about bringing clarity and communication and conversation and compassion to businesses that have people like me who are really talented but slightly rebellious.

And so it's called "Rebel Talent."

>>Rebel Talent focuses on advocacy projects around learning disabilities and mental health, utilizing Denise's expertise and passion for making a difference.

>>There's a chance to have a conversation and I go in as a rebel, as Rebel Talent, and I structure that conversation and I say, "Here's how you can define what you need as a neurodivergent person without being too diagnostic."

I say, are you a secret keeper or a deadline meeter?

What?

Who are you?

Tell that to your boss, then I say, "Here's a structure that your boss can use to figure out how they communicate."

And I ask people, "How will you meet in the middle?"

I'm a journalist and I'm a storyteller and I'm really good at this point, at bringing out people's stories in a way that's positive and that people can appreciate.

>>Denise continues to advocate and bring awareness to the workplace, making sure neurodiverse individuals are not only not overlooked, but utilized to their fullest potential.

>>I really hit the nail on the head somehow, because I would speak to, I was the first person to speak to people who were neurodivergent, either who were out and talking about it, who had disclosed or undercover.

And to talk to HR people about what do you see and what are the problems, what do you not understand?

And I really dug deep so that Neurodivergence would be represented in a business forum.

And from there, Rebel Talent Group, people said, we love your articles because you're not talking about people, you're talking with people.

And that's been really, I think, a very big change.

>>For A World of Difference, I'm Cindy Peterson.

♪♪♪ >>Thanks, Cindy.

And congratulations Denise Brodey for making a difference.

And that does it for this edition of A World of Difference: Embracing Neurodiversity.

I'm Darryl Owens.

I'll see you back here next time.

You can watch episodes of A World of Difference on the Beacon College Facebook and YouTube channels, and on the show's website, awodtv.org.

The website also provides tip sheets and other resources for your parenting journey.

You can watch the show from the PBS app available on your favorite streaming device, and you can listen on your favorite podcasting platform.

Thank you for watching and supporting A World of Difference.

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