Good evening.

I'm William Brangham and welcome to Washington Week.

Jeffrey Goldberg is away.

With the much anticipated first debate between the Democratic and Republican candidates for president just days away, Vice president Kamala Harris hit the campaign trail this week.

She's trying to strike a delicate balance, selling her economic plans while distancing herself from President Biden's unpopular economic record.

Former President Donald Trump touted his own plans for the economy this week to tackle the high cost of child care and inflation.

Trump again accused his opponent of embracing Marxism, focusing on Harris proposal to go after corporate price gouging.

And as the candidates hope to sway voters in next week's debate, the Justice Department accused Russia of interfering in this year's election.

Attorney General Merrick Garland alleged Putin's allies are spreading disinformation and working to amplify division in the U.S.

Joining me to discuss all of this and more, Leigh Ann Caldwell is anchor of Washington Post Live and co-author of the Post's Early Brief, Lisa Desjardins is PBS NewsHour's political correspondent and she also covers the Trump campaign, and Vivian Salama is national politics reporter for The Washington Post.

Thank you all so much for being here.

Thanks for joining us on a Friday.

Leigh Ann, to you first, Trump dodged a bullet, a legal bullet this week, in that he will not be sentenced in the Stormy Daniels case now until after the election around Thanksgiving.

So, all eyes are going to be on this debate next week.

Given how consequential that last debate was, and basically upending the presidential race, how important is this one?

Leigh Ann Caldwell, Anchor, Washington Post Live: So, I'm of the mindset that it's actually quite important.

The reason is that Kamala Harris campaign, they acknowledge that she is still introducing herself to voters.

She is a relatively new candidate.

That's why the convention was so important.

And that's why this debate is also going to be really important not only because it's another opportunity for voters to find out who she is and what she stands for, but also it's going to be -- this is a new campaign.

These are two candidates who are going to be standing next to each other for the first time.

And what politics is all about is a contrast between the two candidates and the country will see that for the first time.

William Brangham: Lisa, I know you've been doing some reporting on how the Trump campaign is trying to prepare for this.

How are they looking at this event?

Lisa Desjardins, Political Correspondent, PBS NewsHour: Well, you know, Donald Trump himself likes to portray that he doesn't need to prepare for anything.

He just arrives ready.

But the truth is, I was told by senior Trump campaign officials that they actually are doing a lot.

We know that they brought in Tulsi Gabbard to be one of their consultants, former Democrat, now I think she's technically an independent.

William Brangham: Consultant, meaning she's not playing Kamala Harris.

Lisa Desjardins: No, I've been told specifically she's not playing Kamala Harris.

But I was told this.

I was told that why is she there, specifically?

Because in the words of this senior advisor, senior campaign official, that you can't really do debate prep with seven guys when you're facing Kamala Harris.

So, they're being open about it, that they want a woman in the room.

They need that kind of energy to go off of.

But they are doing intense policy briefings, and I was told they're doing a lot.

William Brangham: I mean, Vivian, this -- as Leigh Ann was saying, there is still this getting to know you phase that Kamala Harris is in.

And on some level, that adds a lot of importance to what she has to do.

But it also gives Trump the opportunity to do his own defining.

Well, if she's trying to -- we're trying to get to know her, well, let me tell you about her.

Do you think he's really going to try and go directly at her on this regard?

Vivian Salama, National Politics Reporter, The Wall Street Journal: Oh, absolutely.

And this is something that the Trump campaign has made a concerted effort toward for the last couple of weeks, especially because he's out there, he's doing interviews and he's holding press conferences or press avails, as they case was today, he did not take questions, and he is basically trying to build a case against her.

She, in the meantime, was doing a lot of rallies, but wasn't doing any interviews until the CNN interview that we saw recently, and hadn't really taken a lot of questions publicly from the press.

That really left a void for her campaign to be able to then define her and get out there ahead of the message.

The other issue, and the debate is going to be really key for this, is to really offer some details as far as what her policy plans are, whether or not she's going to distance herself from any of President Biden's policies and kind of break from that, define herself in her own way, that's something that remains to be seen.

Even with the very limited press engagements that we've seen with her, she has offered sort of top line visions, but hasn't gotten into the details of policies.

And so this is an opportunity for her to really let voters know, this is what I'm going to do for you, and this is how I'm going to do it.

William Brangham: I mean, do you think, though, in the end, that, given the importance of this matchup, of the really viewers getting a good first glimpse at her, apart from the convention, that those policy distinctions will rise to be so important?

Vivian Salama: At this point, I think the dynamics is going to really be what prevails to see how much she's able to take back.

Donald Trump on to call him out on issues like, you know, if he says something that's not true or goes after her in an aggressive way, how she's going to be able to handle that and to sort of come back at him.

I think that is something that you know, with a lot of debates, a lot of them are very superficial at the end of the day.

I mean, since the advent of television, we have seen how, you know, just the visuals alone.

William Brangham: Right, it's performative.

Vivian Salama: Yes, it's very performative.

William Brangham: Nixon, Kennedy, and whether he shaved or not was critical.

Vivian Salama: Exactly, and so that is going to be a lot of it, you know?

And also we have seen that a lot of people view women a little bit more harshly.

You know, are the viewers going to be kind to her in terms of her gender and see it as sort of a strength versus something that might work against her?

You know, we saw that with Hillary Clinton in 2016, where likability came into the picture when she was going against Donald Trump or interfacing with voters.

All those things are really going to probably be what matters to people.

But at the end of the day, they are talking to a very small sliver of voters who are undecided at this point, and a lot of those people want to know how can you improve my life?

What are you going to do to make it better?

And so, for those people, I think they will be listening a little bit to the nuances of the policies as well.

I mean, Leigh Ann, I know you've been doing some reporting about, very specifically, what kinds of voters, these voters that Vivian is talking about, that Trump is going after in particular.

What have you been learning?

Leigh Ann Caldwell: So, from what I've learned from the Trump campaign is that key to their strategy in these last 60 days is that they are trying to turn out these very low propensity voters.

They're spending a lot of time and a lot of money -- William Brangham: Define that term for us.

Leigh Ann Caldwell: -- trying to find the voters who definitely don't vote in the midterm elections, voters who probably didn't vote in 2020, maybe probably voted in 2016.

So, they're sometimes presidential election voters, but more often than not, they don't vote.

So, the Trump campaign thinks that there are a lot of voters, especially male voters, who are likely to vote for him if they vote.

And so that is actually what their focus is in these next 60 days.

They say that the undecideds, there's just so few of them, especially when it comes to Trump.

Like most people have an opinion about Donald Trump.

They are flooding those undecided people's mailboxes with flyers and their phones are getting text messages.

But it's really these low propensity voters, these not often voters, who the Trump campaign is really going after.

William Brangham: Lisa, I know you've been doing some reporting in Pennsylvania with some of these Trump teams that are trying to reach these voters.

What have you been reporting?

Lisa Desjardins: Yes, this is great.

We're like one reporting team right now.

This is making me so happy.

Yes.

And in Trump Force 47 is one way that the Trump campaign is focusing this whole effort.

William Brangham: Trump Force 47?

Lisa Desjardins: Yes, and I Essentially, the key things to know is the Trump campaign says it has thrown out the playbook that the RNC used in 2020.

They do not believe in the way the GOP canvassed.

They think it was a mistake and horrible decision-making.

So, instead -- Vivian Salama: And a waste of money.

Lisa Desjardins: And a waste of money, that's right.

And so instead of doing this mass door to door, every weekend, we're going to have these groups going door to door, which is exactly what the Harris campaign is doing, by the way, they are trying to train key volunteers, they call them key volunteers, to target smaller lists of voters themselves, saying that you will be the one in charge of swaying this group of low propensity voters.

Now in theory, it makes sense, the idea is that a neighbor will talk to a neighbor and keep talking to them.

But, you know, the reality of it when you see it on the ground is some of these folks have never really done campaign work before.

Are they really going to follow up every time?

It's a bit of a risk the Trump campaign is taking, but like much else, they're doing something different.

It's not traditional.

Leigh Ann Caldwell: Yes.

And I'm glad you brought that up, actually, because to compare it with the Harris campaign, you know, you hear, they have over 2,000 staff in these battleground states.

They have hundreds of offices that are open and they always criticize the Trump campaign for not having very many staff, not having very many offices.

And for so long, that has been a quantitative number that has always been important in presidential campaigns, how many people are you employing to get out these votes.

And like you said, Lisa, the Trump campaign is turning the whole thing on its head and not going down that route.

Lisa Desjardins: All their eyes, when they hear those numbers from the Biden campaign, the Trump campaign just like rolls their eyes and thinks that the Biden campaign is ridiculous.

Vivian Salama: And antiquated.

Lisa Desjardins: Yes.

Vivian Salama: And it's making a lot of traditional Republican National Committee members nervous in the states, because they'd like to see them ramping things up in the final stretch.

But at the end of the day, the Trump campaign says, our candidate is different from any other candidate, so we're not going to do things the old way.

Leigh Ann Caldwell: And just to clarify one thing, they are relying on some of these outside groups to do the more traditional door-knocking, but the Trump campaign is not really engaged in that.