>> President Trump's move to do away with diversity, equity and inclusion efforts in the federal government has also made waves in the public and private sector companies like Walmart Target and McDonald's recently moved to abandon their dei initiatives.

Backers of Trump's decision say these practices were discriminatory and promoted inequity.

But advocates argue social equity initiatives are essential to create a fair and balanced society here with more on dei initiatives are Xavier rainy, CEO of Justice informed social impacts consulting firm and on Zoom, Jacob, Hubert president of the Liberty Justice Center.

Gentlemen, thank you for joining us.

Welcome back.

this is a viewer.

Want to start with you.

What is the historical significance was the context behind dei?

>> The eye was created as a program shortly after the civil rights movement and the Civil Rights Act of 1964, of course, we created legislative environment where we said that America was equal and then all person should be treated equally without discrimination with regard certain protect identities.

However, that doesn't mean that the social application of that was just going to happen.

So diversity, equity inclusion programs were created to start both incentivize but also hold accountable institutions, communities and individuals that didn't comply with that law.

And so that was sort of the dawn of the eye where it's gone since then is a bit further.

I'm sure we'll get into that.

Absolutely.

What are what are some of the misconceptions of dei today?

One?

I think it's a one of the great misconceptions is that it's trying to get on qualified people in when the reality is we're trying to get an qualified people out.

The eye is not about trying to get unqualified people of color in 2 high ranking roles and get women into jobs that they don't haven't worked for in these sorts of things that actually to say that America's never a competitive employment marketplace when you suppress labor and you don't allow for women to enter into the work workplace and you don't have data that shows whether there's a racialized effect and hiring practices for law firms, for instance, eventually you have to ask yourself, why aren't there more black lawyers?

Why aren't there more women doctors?

Why aren't there Indian folks working in some of these copies what's going on here?

There's a reason for that and de-icing operatives to level that playing field.

>> Jacob, Hubert, you know, given the history of race and or and gender discrimination in this country, why wouldn't dei help move equity forward?

>> What we have the Constitution that requires the government to treat everybody equally regardless of their race.

We have laws that prohibit race discrimination and we have plenty of lawyers who are willing to go to bat for people who've been discriminated against based on their race.

And that's all very good.

But we're talking about with these programs that President Trump sought to eliminate our programs that promote people or give people positions based on their race or their repair, a touristic like that rather than on their qualifications for the job.

And so what I think President Trump is saying what a lot of people believe right now is that we should get all kinds of racial discrimination out of our government, whether any kind of racial preference, this treat people as individuals hire people who are qualified and if there is invidious discrimination going on in any direction, get rid of that discrimination.

>> Do you think that just simply being more mindful of the barriers that history has a record for some folks in this country?

Do you think that that is a form of discrimination?

>> I don't think are really talking about anybody being mindful here.

What we're talking about and what the president got rid of our programs that actually make decisions about who will be hired, who will be promoted and that sort of thing based on race, characteristics like that.

You know, people want to tell you you don't want to teach children about slavery.

You don't want to teach military kid.

That's about the Tuskegee Airman.

That's not what this is about.

That's a total strong and the people bring up to cover the fact that we're really talking about is getting rid of discrimination, treating everybody as equal individuals in judging them and giving them positions and pay based on their mayor.

That's all this is actually about.

And I think people are tired of the kind of racial division.

The proponents of these programs so often stow to try to tell some people their victims and other people, oppressors and set them against one another.

You know, racial conflict.

Unfortunately, people feel it has increased in recent years because there are so many to term and to stoke this conflict and profit from every sign and what I think this push against Dei is really about is saying no to get race.

Forget all of that.

Let's go back to treating each other as equal individuals.

>> I want to hear a clip of briefly from White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt.

She's discussing the removal of funding to dei programs.

>> It is the responsibility of this president and this administration to be good stewards of taxpayer dollars.

That is something that President Trump campaigned on.

That's why he is launched Doge's the Department of Government Efficiency who is working alongside O and B and that's be sent out this memo last night because the president signed an executive order indeed to do just this.

And the reason for this is to ensure that every penny that is going out the door is not conflicting with the executive orders and actions that this president has taken.

So what does this pause mean?

It means no more funding for illegal dei programs.

>> Illegal dei programs.

Jacob, a are D I programs illegal.

>> Yes.

If they giving people of benefits, privileges, jobs promotions based on race or 6, the law makes that illegal across the board doesn't say you can't discriminate against this race.

You can't discriminate against in favor of that race.

The law demands that the government especially treat everybody equally.

And so if you have programs that are doing that, yes, they are illegal.

If it's the government doing it, they violate the Constitution.

>> Okay.

So while we're on it, let's let's talk a little bit about private companies because the executive order from the White House focused on Funding dei programs at a federal level.

But we're also seeing private companies, Walmart, target McDonald's.

They're also abandoning their dei initiatives.

Xavier, want to come to you first.

Why do you think that is?

>> Well, partly because I think they believe things that like what Mister Huber just said, they think the dei is about creating these check boxes and giving unqualified people jobs.

They think the dei is about training people to hate.

And the reality is that most people don't even know how to love what we're teaching them.

This is how to include persons that they most likely don't live around.

The reality is most white Americans do not live around an African-American.

Most African-Americans don't live around persons who are of Indian descent.

We are segregated Cup country and in order to actually create a space that is equal and we come into an integrated space such as the workplace and the workplace is the most integrated space for the majority of Americans, not their homes.

Then we have to do the work of understanding how to teach them to do the work of integration, to live up to those values that the Constitution says, which is that we are not only all created equal, but we are to be treated equally.

We're not training people.

We're teaching people to hate.

We're not using race as a straw man.

What we're doing is letting people know that you don't know what races and how it's affected people.

I would challenge Jacob to consider.

Why is it that there are less than 5% of the partners and major law firms across the United States who are African-American.

And while the majority of the white man, why is it that 91% of all venture capital dollars go to white male businesses?

Yeah, we have white men in Texas going to the Supreme Court saying that small business grants to women of color is somehow unconstitutional because they can apply for that one.

91 1% of the money goes the white men, but they'll shut down all the apparatus.

As for getting data about the why things like the E E O C things like Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

Those shut those down like President Trump is doing right now to ensure we can't measure just how unequal it is and then say the counting inequality is a form of in justice and creating programs to address.

It is a form discrimination.

this it.

So the president he to he brought up dei in the face of tragedy just last week.

Let's take a listen.

>> Faa is diversity push includes focus on hiring people with severe intellectual and psychiatric disabilities.

That is amazing.

And theirs is FAA people with severe disabilities, the most.

Underrepresented segment of the workforce and they want to mend and they want them.

They can be air traffic controllers.

I don't think so.

>> Jacob, is there a danger in baselessly, faulting dei for failure like this?

>> Yeah, I don't know.

You where the president gets his notions about this.

I don't too much about that specific situation.

But, you know, the question was raised will why are you know, only 5% of law firm partners, if that's the case of the people of color, whatever the statistic won't say, if you if you wonder why certain demographic groups are underperforming, let's look at the schools that we force them to attend.

Look at the Chicago Public schools that have been failing minority children for decades and look at the people in this country.

Don't want those families to have a choice.

Wouldn't you know it?

It's the same public sector unions and other interest groups that pushed I think these people, if they're really concerned about this sort of thing, should take a look at why people lack opportunities.

It's because they like educational choice.

It's because they have a government that puts up barriers to entrepreneurship that make it difficult for people succeed.

It's about people who profit off of keeping people dependent and in bad schools.

If you're not talking about that.

And I question very much whether someone is really about the success of every or if someone is about profiting from racial division.

>> Okay.

I I wish we could talk about this a whole lot more because I know that both of you have a lot of thoughts and a lot more to add.

I'm sure it is a conversation that