ELECTION 2021.

WHAT DID WE LEARN?

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>>> ELECTION 2021.

WHAT DID WE LEARN?

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>>> JOINING US ON "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" THIS WEEK, JULIE KARR SMYTH FOR THE ASSOCIATED PRESS.

HERB ASHER.

AND TERRY CASEY REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST.

WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

I'M ANN FISHER SITTING IN FOR MIKE THOMPSON THIS WEEK.

UNLIKE OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY THERE WAS LITTLE DRAMA IN THIS YEAR'S ODD-YEAR ELECTION IN OHIO.

USUALLY VOTERS CHOOSE CONGRESS PEOPLE IN EVEN YEARS AND THIS YEAR THEY FILLED TWO SEATS LEFT VACANT.

DEMOCRAT CHANTAL BROWN WON EASILY IN CLEVELAND AND IN CENTRAL OHIO, MIKE CAREY WON EASILY IN A SPECIAL ELECTION.

CAREY, THE FAVORITE OF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP DEFEATED DEMOCRATIC STATE REPRESENTATIVE AND JOE BIDEN-ENDORSED ALLISON RUSSO BY 16 PERCENTAGE POINTS.

TERRY CASEY, GIVEN THAT IT IS SAFER FOR DEMOCRATS, HOW MUCH DOES THIS REALLY INSTRUCT US ABOUT THE MOOD OF THE ELECTORATE IN AN OFF YEAR?

>> IT SAYS A LOT BECAUSE CLEARLY ALLISON RUSSO HAS AN ADVANTAGE WITH MORE MONEY, MORE TV, BUT STARTED EARLIER, BUT INTERESTINGLY IN FRANKLIN COUNTY, THAT SHE REALLY NEEDED TO WIN BY 63 PLUS, SHE GOT 65% AND IN EIGHT OF THE 12 COUNTIES IN THE LIFT DISTRICT MIKE CAREY HAD 70% OR HIGHER MARGINS.

CLEARLY, THIS IS WAY DISTRICT THAT WAS 7% REPUBLICAN AND HE ENDED UP WINNING BY NEARLY 17 POINTS.

SO IT WAS A BIG VICTORY AND LIKE WITH VIRGINIA, IT RAISES QUESTIONS OF WHAT IS THE FUTURE?

BECAUSE MIKE CAREY DID BETTER THAN A LOT OF SUBURBAN AREAS AND HE RAN SIGNIFICANTLY AHEAD OF TRUMP LAST YEAR.

>> HERB ASHER, DOES IT SAY NO MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY I HAVE ONCE THE DISTRICTS ARE DRAWN THE WAY THEY'RE DRAWN, THERE'S NOT MUCH YOU CAN DO?

>> THE LINES ARE VERY, VERY IMPORTANT, BUT I THINK TERRY IS CORRECT IN SAYING THAT IT PROBABLY WAS A BIGGER VICTORY THAN EXPECTED, BUT IT WAS AN EXPECTED VICTORY THAT IT WOULD BE A DOUBLE-DIGIT WIN FOR HIM.

THE ONE THING IN TERMS OF NEXT YEAR IS THAT THE DISTRICT BOUNDARIES WILL BE DIFFERENT.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'LL LOOK LIKE.

ALLISON RUSSO PROBABLY WILL BE THINKING NOW, DO I WANT TO TAKE ANOTHER RUN AT IT?

IT'S PRETTY MUCH THE SAME, AND SHE'LL PROBABLY SAY NO, BUT AS IT TURNS OUT THAT A SOMEWHAT MORE FRIENDLY DEMOCRATIC DISTRICT, THEN SHE MIGHT SAY YES, BUT I THINK THE KEY THING IS THAT THE DISTRICT LINES ARE VERY, VERY SIGNIFICANT.

>> AND JULIE CARR SMYTHE, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE REDISTRICTING ISSUE AND THE NEW MAP MAKING COMING UP LATER, BUT ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL THIS TIME EVERY DECADE, THEY'RE ALWAYS LOOKING AND WAITING AND SEEING BACK AND SEEING WHAT THEIR ODDS ARE.

>> YEAH.

THAT'S RIGHT, AND I THINK IN THIS CASE THAT ALLISON RUSSO DID PERFORM SOMEWHAT BETTER IN TERMS OF FUND-RAISING IN GETTING ATTENTION, AND IT CAME VERY, VERY LATE, HOWEVER, AND IT DIDN'T COME UNTIL THE MONDAY BEFORE.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS IN ORDER TO, AND TRIED TO BOOST A LITTLE BIT OF TURNOUT.

I KNOW THERE WAS A LOT OF CONCERN FOR TURNOUT ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE AND ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, WAS THERE A THEORY IN THE SUBURBS OVER THE CRITICAL RACE THEORY ISSUE THAT PROBABLY DROVE SOME ADDITIONAL TURNOUT IN THE AREAS THAT TERRY WAS TALKING ABOUT THAT HELPED MIKE CAREY.

>> SPEAKING OF THAT, SCHOOL BOARD RACES DREW AN UNUSUAL AMOUNT OF INTEREST AND CANDIDATES IN THIS ELECTION.

PARENTS UPSET ABOUT MASK MANDATES AND POSSIBLE VACCINE MANDATES NOT ONLY COMPLAINED AT MEETINGS, BUT THEY RAN FOR SCHOOL BOARD SEATS.

CONSERVATIVE GROUPS ALSO UPSET ABOUT THE POSSIBLE TEACHING OF CRITICAL RACE THEORY WHICH BY THE WAY, DOES NOT OCCUR IN OHIO SCHOOLS GAVE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO THESE CANDIDATES.

IN THE END WHILE THE PARENTS RIGHTS CANDIDATES WON, MOST CAME UP SHORT.

HERB ASHER, DID MONEY BECOME A KEY FACTOR IN THE CAMPAIGN SEASON FOR SCHOOL BOARD CANDIDATE THIS YEAR.

IS THIS A TURNING POINT FOR HOW SCHOOL BOARD RACES WILL FACTOR IN THE FUTURE, DO YOU THINK?

I HOPE NOT, BUT I'M AFRAID IT WILL, BUT IN PREVIOUS YEAR, IT CAN BE CONTROVERSIAL WHEN THERE IS AN ISSUE ABOUT RAISING TAXES OR ABOUT FIRING A POPULAR COACH OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT IN MANY OF THE DISTRICTS THIS CRITICAL RACE THEORY, WHICH AS YOU SAID, ANN, IS NOT HAPPENING BECAME SORT OF AN ISSUE, A PHONY ISSUE, A BIG LIE ISSUE AND AUGMENTED BY A LOT OF OUTSIDE MONEY, AND DARK MONEY.

MONEY THAT IS NOT REPORTED.

YOU DON'T KNOW WHO IS CONTRIBUTING IT AND IT WOULD BE UNFORTUNATE IF, IN FACT, SCHOOL BOARD RACES GET WEAPONIZED IN THE SAME WAY THAT A LOT OF THE RACES DO.

IT CERTAINLY IS FINE FOR PARENTS TO COMPLAIN AND IT'S FINE FOR PARENTS TO SAY, I DON'T LIKE THE POLICIES OF THE SCHOOL BOARD WITH RESPECT TO MASK MANDATES OR WHATEVER, BUT YOU KNOW, SOMEHOW THIS YEAR A LOT OF THOSE THINGS ARE SO POLITICIZED AND I MIGHT JUST ADD, WE DO HAVE -- WE'VE HAD VACCINE MANDATES FOR OUR STUDENTS THROUGH SCHOOLS FOR A LONG TIME.

THEY ALL HAVE TO BE VACCINATED AGAINST VARIOUS KIND OF DISEASES.

SO WHAT MAKES COVID THAT DIFFERENT?

I SUSPECT FOR CERTAIN PEOPLE, NOT ALL, BUT FOR CERTAIN, THERE'S A POLITICAL OVERTONE TO THAT.

THEY'RE MAKING A POLITICAL AND IDEOLOGICAL STATEMENT, AND I HOPE SCHOOL RACES DON'T GET DRAGGED INTO THIS TOO MUCH, BUT I'M AFRAID IT MIGHT IN THE FUTURE.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK, CASEY, ABOUT THAT?

AS HERB ASHER PUT THE WEAPONIZATION OF THE SCHOOL BOARD RACE IN THAT WAY?

>> IN SOME CASES LIKE THE DISTRICT, THE SCHOOL BOARD HAD A DIVIDED 3-2 VOTE FOR A POLICE RESOURCE OFFICERS, AND I THINK THAT ENERGIZED SOME PEOPLE THERE AND IN SOME CASES THERE ARE OTHER ISSUES THAT GET IN THERE AND TO BE HONEST IN THE PAST, TEACHER UNIONS, SCHOOL EMPLOYEE UNIONS HAVE RECRUITED CANDIDATES AND FINANCED CANDIDATES SO THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN SOME DEGREE OF POLITICIZATION OF SCHOOL BOARD RACES.

I THINK IT'S JUST BECOME MORE CRITICAL AND MORE OF INTEREST THESE DAYS.

SO THERE'S A VARIETY OF ISSUES OUT THERE AND THAT DEPENDS ON THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE SOME COMMUNITIES WHERE THERE WERE ONLY FOUR PEOPLE RATHER THAN THREE TO BE ELECTED WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAN SOME OTHER DISTRICTS HERE WHERE YOU HAD SEVEN, EIGHT OR NINE CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR THREE SEATS.

SO THERE WERE A LOT OF DIFFERENT SHADES OF IT AND DIFFERENT ISSUES OUT THERE DEPENDING UPON THE COMMUNITY.

>> THIS ISN'T JUST AN ISSUE FOR LOCAL SCHOOL BOARDS, JULIE CARR SMYTH, AND THIS IS REACHING UP INTO THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION, AS WELL, RIGHT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

SO THE BOARD AT THE STATE LEVEL WHICH IS A COMBINATION OF ELECTED AND APPOINTED HAS HAD AN ANTI-RACISM MEASURE EARLIER IN THEIER.

THEY SAW INCREDIBLE PUSHBACK ON THAT AND CALL MEETING TO TAKE ANOTHER VOTE AND WOUND UP REMOVING THAT STATEMENT AGAINST RACISM AND THE BOARD MEMBER WHO OBJECTED TO RESCINDING IT ARE GONE NOW.

AND IT'S DEFINITELY BEING WEAPONIZED, IF YOU WILL, IN A DIFFERENT WAY THAN I WOULD SAY IF WE LOOK BACK AT THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY WERE VERY EFFECTIVE AT TAKING OVER THE LOCAL LEVEL SEATS AND GETTING THE EAR OF THE PARTY BACK THEN, BUT THEY DID IT IN A GRASSROOTS LEVEL AND THE DARK MONEY WAS DISTURBING ANDING INTO TO US AS JOURNALISTS AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THAT'S COMING FROM.

>> RIGHT, AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT THE STATE HOUSE REPORTERS WERE COVERING LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICT RACES, RIGHT, JULIE?

>> RIGHT.

I DEFINITELY WROTE A NATIONAL STORY ABOUT THE PHENOMENON WHICH IS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION WAS TRAINING SCHOOL BOARD CANDIDATES TO RUN FOR THESE OFFICES AND WAS DEFINITELY GETTING INVOLVED AND HELPS MAKE LISTS TO DIRECT PEOPLE AND FUNDING TOWARD THESE EFFORTS AND IT'S DEFINITELY AN OBJECTIVE AT THE HIGHER LEVELS OF THE PARTY OF THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT.

>> HERB, WHAT DOES IT MEAN ABOUT THE MONEY?

IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S A BOTTOMLESS PIT IF YOU HAVE NATIONAL, DARK MONEY GROUPS GOING INTO LOCAL SCHOOL BOARD RACES.

>> WE KNOW THAT FOR BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES, THE SOURCES OF FUNDING WHETHER DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY ARE HUGE, AND IN FACT, THE WHOLE NOTION THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO ELIMINATE SOME OF THAT OR REALLY DO A MUCH BETTER JOB OF IDENTIFYING WHERE IT'S COMING FROM AND WHO'S MAKING THE CONTRIBUTION, THAT'S NOT VERY REALISTIC.

A FEW YEARS AGO WE USED TO SAY THE TAX MONEY IS AWFUL.

IT TURNS OUT TAX MONEY IS SOME OF THE CLEANEST MONEY IF IT'S RAISED ACCORDING TO LAW BECAUSE WE KNOW, IN FACT, WHO IS CONTRIBUTING AND HOW MUCH THEY'RE CONTRIBUTING AND WHERE THE PACK HAS CHOSEN TO DIRECTLY MAKE THOSE CONTRIBUTIONS.

SO WHAT WE'RE SAYING NOW IS THAT THERE ARE MANY GROUPS OUT THERE THAT ARE FINDING INTERESTING LOOPHOLES AND TYPICALLY, YOU HAVE THE DARK MONEY AROUND BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO BE IDENTIFIED AT TIMES WHAT THE CAUSES YOU'RE SUPPORTING WHICH AT THE TIME SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT THE CAUSES YOU'RE SUPPORTING, SO IT REALLY IS, AND I THINK THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE SYSTEM IS NOT GOING TO GET ANY BETTER IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

AND TERRY CASEY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT GOING INTO LOCAL MONEY AND YOU CAN RAISE DOUBTS ABOUT THE CAUSE ITSELF?

>> WELL, IN SOME OF THE PACs WERE CONFUSED EXACTLY WHO THEY WERE BACKING AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE, BUT I AGREE IT'S BETTER THAT THE MONEY BE IDENTIFIED AND AGAIN, AT ONE TIME PACs WERE THOUGHT TO BE A REFORM AND THEY WERE THOUGHT TO BE BAD AND NOW COMPARED TO DARK MONEY THEY'RE BETTER AND PERSONAL HE, IT'S MUCH BETTER WHEN THE PEOPLE KNOW WHERE THE MONEY IS COMING FROM AND HOW IT'S BEING SPENT AND IT'S ONE OF THESE WHOLE CHALLENGES.

HOW DO YOU STILL PURSUE THE FIRST AMENDMENT IN THE EYES OF THE SUPREME COURT.

>> OF COURSE, WITH THIS YEAR'S ELECTION BEHIND US, IT'S TIME TO FOCUS ON NEXT YEAR'S ELECTION, THE MIDTERMS.

AT THE STATE HOUSE, LAWMAKERS ARE PICKING THEIR VOTERS DEPENDING ON THEIR POINT OF VIEW TWO DEADLINES.

STATE HOUSE REPUBLICANS HAD THE PROPOSED CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT MAPS AND OHIO WILL LOSE ITS SEAT MEANING THAT'S 15 CONGRESS PEOPLE AND THERE ARE TWO MAPS, ONE DRAWN BY THE REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE AND THE OTHER BY REPUBLICANS IN THE SENATE AND BOTH WOULD LEAD DEMOCRATS WITH TWO SAFETIES AND THEY HAVE AS MANY AS WE HAVE NOW AND AN INDEPENDENT ANALYST SAYS REPUBLICANS WOULD HAVE BETWEEN SIX AND NINE SAFE SEATS.

THE REST WOULD BE COMPETITIVE TO ONE DEGREE OR ANOTHER.

SOME OTHER INTERESTING FACT, JOYCE BEATTY'S NEW HOME IN DOWNTOWN COLUMBUS LIES OUTSIDE HER DISTRICT AND CONGRESSMAN JIM JORDAN WOULD REPRESENT OF ALL PLACES CLINTONVILLE.

JULIE CARR SMYTH, HOW ARE REPUBLICANS JUSTIFYING THESE PROPOSED MAPS IN LIGHT OF THE REFORMS THAT OHIO VOTERS WERE BACKED ON THE STATEWIDE BALLOT.

>> WHAT THEY'RE SAYING DOWNTOWN IS BAKLEY, THERE'S AN ARGUMENT OVER THE POLITICAL DIVISION OF THIS STATE.

SOME OF THE AVERAGING THAT YOU WOULD DO OVER THE PAST DECADE WHICH IS HOW IT IS OFTEN DONE AND THERE IS A PA 4% REPUBLICAN AND 46% IN THE STATE AND AFTER TWO GIANT TRUMP WINS IN THE LAST TWO PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS, THEY HAVE BOUNCED BACK AND AT THE MICROLEVEL THERE IS A LOT MORE PUSH FOR REPUBLICAN VOTERS.

WE HAVE ALSO SEEN THAT THEY'VE REJECTED THIS IDEA OF THE FAIRNESS -- OF THE WHOLE PROCESS TO BE REALLY HONEST.

IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT PARTISAN OUTCOMES AND THEN MAKING A MAP, THAT IN ITSELF IS GERRYMANDERING WHICH IS A MISINTERPRETATION, IN MY VIEW OF WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE AND WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS SEE REALITY AND THEN GIVE PARTIES A CHANCE TO PERFORM, AND AS A RESULT OF GERRYMANDERING NOW AND VOTERS VOTED FOR IT AND GENERALIZED THE VOTES.

>> TERRY CASEY, HE HOPES TO USE HIS EXPERIENCE AS UNION NEGOTIATOR TO REACH A DEAL THAT MATCHES OHIOANS VOTING PREFERENCES.

IS THAT KIND OF NEGOTIATION EVEN A THING AT THIS POINT, TERRY?

>> LET ME GIVE YOU A SECRET IN THE NEGOTIATION GAME TO BUY IT FROM McKARTHY AND SOMETIMES THEY GIVE YOU THE FIRST OFFER THAT'S A LITTLE BALL OR A HIGH BALL, AND IN THIS CASE THE TWO PLANS ROLLED OUT THIS WEEK WILL NOT REALLY BE THE PLANS, BUT IT'S JUST A WAY OF GETTING PEOPLE'S ATTENTION ON BOTH SIDES OF HOW COMPLICATED AND CHALLENGING IT IS, AND THEN ALSO IN SOME WAYS THEY CAN SAY ONCE THEY ADOPT THE FINAL PLAN, IT WAS MUCH BETTER THAN WHAT WE HAD IN EARLY NOVEMBER AND SEE HOW WE COMPROMISED ANY MAKE THINGS BETTER.

SO WE STILL HAVE A LONG WAYS TO GO, AND DRAWING THESE DISTRICTS IS NOT THE EASIEST AND PART OF IT IS THE CONSTITUTION AS WORDS LIKE COMPACT AND GIVING PRIORITIES TO KEEPING COUNTIES AND TOWNSHIPS WHOLE AND WHAT IS THE BEST PRIORITY BECAUSE NOBODY DEFINES COMPACT, EXACTLY HOW THEY'LL BE DONE SCIENTIFICALLY AND LEGALLY.

>> NO ONE WOULD SUGGEST THAT THESE MAPS WILL KEEP COUNTIES WHOLE, WOULD THEY, HERB ASHER?

>> YEAH.

LOOK, I THINK THIS IS SIMPLY THE OPENING GAMBIT, AND THERE WILL BE SOME MEANINGFUL NEGOTIATIONS THEM MAYBE IT'S NOT AS BAD AS IT LOOKS ON THE FACE OF IT TODAY, BUT I THINK WHAT HAPPENS WITH RESPECT TO THE STATE LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS WHICH ARE NOW GOING TO COURT.

THE REPUBLICANS IN CONTROL GOT UNBELIEVABLY GREEDY AND IN SOME WAYS THEY WERE IN THE POWER AND CONTROL OF THE PROCESS AND THEY SAID WE CAN DO WHAT WE WANT TO DO, AND I'M SURE THE OHIO SUPREME COURT WILL TELL THEM THAT THE FIRST PLAN THAT THEY HAVE COME UP WITH AND THEY DID ADOPT IT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT, I DON'T KNOW, BUT GIVEN THAT EXPERIENCE IN THE STATE LEGISLATIVE LEVEL, I'M SURE TERRY IS RIGHT THAT THERE WILL BE SOMETHING MORE BALANCED COMING OUT OF THIS, BUT I THINK ONE PARTY HAS BEEN IN CONTROL FOR A LONG TIME AND IT'S FOR DEMOCRATS OR REPUBLICANS, YOU DO GET ARROGANT AND YOU DO SAY WE'RE ENTITLED AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO DO IT, AND IF YOU CAN STOP US, STOP US, AND SO I THINK THE FIRST MAP IS THAT CONGRESS IS REALLY QUITE APPALLING, BUT LET'S SEE, IF IN FACT, THE FINAL MAP IS MUCH DIFFERENT, BUT THE FINAL MAP WHICH THAI PRODUCE FOR THE STATE LEGISLATIVE SEATS WERE ALSO APPALLING AND NOW LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE COURT REJECTS IT, AND I BELIEVE THE COURT WILL REJECT IT.

>> IF THE COURT REJECTS IT, WHAT DOES IT NECESSARILY PORTEND FOR THE CONGRESSIONAL.

>> IT WOULD PROBABLY MEAN THAT THEY PLAYED BALL BETTER AND IF THEY COME IN BEFORE THEY FINISH, BUT THAT SEEMS TO BE DOUBTFUL AND THEY HAVE A DEADLINE NOW AT THE END OF NOVEMBER AND I THINK ORAL ARGUMENTS ON THE LEGISLATIVE CASES UNTIL DECEMBER.

SO THE THREAT OF A COURT CHALLENGE DOESN'T SEEM TO CHANGE ANYTHING.

I WOULD NOTE THAT THE DEMOCRATS ON THE SENATE SIDE ALSO HAVE THEIR OWN MAP AND THEY WERE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY THE OTHER DAY TO TALK ABOUT THAT IF IT WERE MORE COUNTIES AND LARGE CITIES WERE KEPT WHOLE.

>> HE'S AWARE THAT REPUBLICANS COULD APPROVE IT, AND WHO MIGHT BE ON THE FENCE AMONG DEMOCRATS ABOUT WHETHER THIS -- WHOSE VOTES?

DO YOU HAVE ANY SPECULATION ON THAT, JULIE KARR SMYTH?

>> I THINK THOSE THAT WERE ON THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION ARE PROBABLY INTERESTED IN PROVIDING THOSE THAT WOULD OFFER A 10-YEAR MAP BECAUSE THE ISSUE AT HAND IS IF THEY DON'T GET AT LEAST HALF OF THE DEMOCRATS IN EACH CHAMBER THEY CAN'T HAVE A TEN-YEAR MAP IN FOUR YEARS AND NOBODY KNOWS THAT THE POLITICAL CLIMATE WILL BE IN FOUR YEARS.

SO THERE MIGHT BE SOME INTEREST ON THE PART OF DEMOCRATS OF NEGOTIATING IF THEY CAN GET A LITTLE OF WHAT THEY WANT AND THEN GET VOTE FOR A 10-YEAR MAP.

>> AND IT'S ALSO POSSIBLE THAT MAYBE SOME DEMOCRATIC MEMBERS MIGHT BE HAPPIER IF THEY CAN SEE A CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT IN WHICH THEY CAN RUN COMPETITIVELY, AND THAT'S BEEN DONE IN THE PAST IN STATES THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY WHERE THEY BUY OUT GROUPS OF DEMOCRATS BY SAYING WE'LL PASS A PLAN AND THIS WILL BE HELPFUL LEADING A CERTAIN ETHNIC GROUP IN THE STATE OR WHATEVER AND THERE ARE LOTS OF WAYS THAT YOU CAN TRY TO ATTRACT THE SUPPORT FOR MINORITY PARTY, BUT THIS FIRST TASK IS SO UNBALANCED, AND THAT I THINK IT WILL ALSO WIND UP.

AS TERRY HAS SAID, HE THINKS THE CONGRESSIONAL SEAT IS NOT THE LAST VERSION WE'RE GOING TO SEE.

>> JUST REMEMBER THE TV SHOW, LET'S MAKE A DEAL AND THERE WILL BE DEMOCRAT LEGISLATORS AND THEY WANT TO GET BETTER DISTRICTS AND THEY DON'T WANT JUST A GOOD DISTRICT AND THEY WANT A VERY GOOD DISTRICT AND THAT APPLIES ON BOTH SIDES, REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATS AND INCUMBENTS WANT TO HAVE BETTER AND SAFER DISTRICTS.

>> IT'S NOT ABOUT THE INCUMBENTS HAVING SAFE DISTRICTS, AND THE VOTERS IDEALLY WILL HAVE MEANINGFUL CHOICES.

>> VOTERS WHO ARE LISTENING RIGHT NOW ARE THINKING OR WATCHING RIGHT NOW SAYING I THOUGHT WE ALREADY DID THAT, SO MAYBE IT'S BACK TO THE DRAWING TABLE.

WE'LL SEE.

AFTER FIVE WEEKS OF SLOW, BUT STEADY DECLINE.

OHIO'S RATE STANDS AT 154 CASES PER 100,000 PEOPLE AND THAT'S EVIDENT THAT COVID SPREAD REMAINS HIGH.

GOVERNOR DEWINE AND HIS WIFE ISOLATED HIMSELF AFTER BEING EXPOSED TO COVID AND CENTRAL OHIO HOSPITALS AND DOCTOR'S OFFICES EXPECTED TO START GIVING VACCINES TO KIDS AS YOUNG AS 5 YEARS OLD AND ON THE SAME DAY THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION SET PAN DATES FOR EMPLOYEE VACCINES.

OHIO SUED.

DAVE YOST ARGUES THE MANDATES ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

JULIE CARR SMYTH.

IS THIS JUST A PUBLICITY STUNT?

>> HE IS REPRESENTING A WIDE SWATH OF THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY THAT HAS BEEN COMPLAINING NATIONALLY THAT YOU CAN'T PUT OR SHOULDN'T REACH INTO BUSINESSES IN ORDER TO DO MANDATES ON COVID.

IT'S ONE THING FOR JOE BIDEN TO MANDATE HIS OWN WORKFORCE IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO IMPOSE IT ON GOVERNMENT WORKERS AND OTHERS AND HE'S REPRESENTING A VOICE OF PEOPLE IN THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY AND IT'S AN OVERREACH AND THAT'S REALLY HIS GAME PLAN AND GETTING THEIR SPORT AND VOTE FOR THE RUN NEXT YEAR.

OKAY.

SO, ON THE OTHER HAND, A LOT OF BUSINESSES WANT THE MANDATE BECAUSE THEY WANT THEIR WORKERS VACCINATED, RIGHT?

>> RIGHT.

>> IT MAKES IT EASIER.

>> WE DIDN'T WANT TO DO THIS TO YOU, BUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS FORCING US TO DO IT SO THEY GET THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS AND THEY GET THE VACCINATED EMPLOYEES WITHOUT HAVING TO TAKE THE BLAME OR RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT.

>> RIGHT.

TERRY CASEY, THERE'S LOTS OF FEDERAL GOVERNMENT GUIDELINES THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT ARE AT WORK AND WHAT MAKES THIS ANY DIFFERENT?

>> THE DIFFERENT OF THE CONSTITUTION AND IN OTHER OCEAN LAWS, AND THIS IS THE LAW AND THIS IS THE CASE WHERE THE PRESIDENT'S SAYING I'M MAKING THIS LAW AND EVERYONE MUST FOLLOW IT.

SO THERE ARE SOME SERIOUS LEGITIMATE LEGAL ISSUES AS FAR AS THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE STATE SHOULD OPPOSE OR WHETHER THE PRESIDENT FROM ON HIGH CAN DO IT.

SO THIS MIGHT VERY WELL GET TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT, AND ALSO THERE'S A LOT OF EMPLOYERS BOTH PUBLIC AND PRIVATE WHO HAVE GOT GROUPS OF EMPLOYEES WHO DON'T WANT TO HAVE A MANDATE ON THIS VACCINE.

I'M ALL FOR THE VACCINE.

I JUST HAD MY BOOSTER LAST WEEK AND THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS AND DIFFERENT QUESTIONS.

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OKAY.

IT'S TIME FOR THE FINAL OFF THE RECORD PARTING SHOT.

TERRY CASEY, WE'LL KICK OFF WITH YOU.

>> VIRGINIA MIGHT BE A ROAD PATH FOR WHAT CAN HAPPEN IN OHIO BECAUSE IN VIRGINIA THEY KIND OF UNITED WHAT I CALL MAIN STREET COURTHOUSE AND TRUMP REPUBLICANS AND ALSO GALVANIZED SUPPORT AMONG INDEPENDENTS AND THE SUBURBS AND LOOKED FOR THAT PATTERN AND OTHER REPUBLICANS, BUT YOU CAN BRING THE WHOLE PARTY TOGETHER AND BE VERY SUCCESSFUL.

>> HERB ASHER?

>> DEMOCRATS SHOULD BE WORRIED ABOUT THE OUTCOME OF THE MIDTERM, BUT NEXT YEAR AND THEY SHOULD KEEP IN MIND AND REPORTERS SHOULD KEEP IN MIND THAT WHEN DEMOCRATS WON THE HOUSE IN 2020, AND BIDEN WON THE PRESIDENCY, DEMOCRATS WON THE SEATS IN 2020 EVEN THOUGH THEY HELD THE MAJORITY AND HAVING SAID THAT, THEY STILL NEED A TURNAROUND ON A VARIETY OF THING, BUT WHEN YOU GET GOOD ECONOMIC NEWS AS WE'RE GETTING AND SHOULD WE EVER GET GOOD NEWS ABOUT LOWER GASOLINE PRICES THEN I THINK THE PANIC WILL LESSEN, BUT THERE'S STILL A MAJOR PROBLEM WITH MESSAGING FOR THE DEMOCRATS, WHAT THEY STAND FOR AND WHAT THEIR PROPOSALS CAN PAY.

>> JULIE CARR SMYTH?

>> ON MONDAY, WE WILL SEE A COUPLE OF MORE CITIES IN OHIO CONSIDER BANS ON ABORTION ON THE CITY LEVEL.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOUR VIEWERS SHOULD BE KEEPING AN EYE ON THE MICROTARGETING OF ENTITIES AND WEAPONIZING AND THESE ARE A GROWING PATTERN IN OHIO.

>> AND MY PARTING SHOT, I GUESS, IS WISHING MY BOSS MIKE THOMPSON ALL THE BEST IN THE NEW YORK CITY MARATHON.

WISHING HIM FLEETING FEET AND A PERSONAL BEST.

THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

WATCH ONLINE AND AT WOSU.ORG/COTR.

I'M ANN FISHER.

HAVE A GOOD !

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