- I personally had ruptured membranes at 21 and a half weeks, and I happened to make it to 26 weeks.

Well, it's a different situation.

I delivered, I was pregnant with triplets, and I had the choice to deliver my first son at 22 and a half weeks.

We had the choice to not resuscitate, and he passed away.

And then I was able to stay pregnant for another two and a half weeks, three and a half weeks, and made it to 26 weeks where I got sepsis and needed to be delivered.

So I kind of understand it personally and professionally better than most people.

But there was a lot of choice involved.

- And one point legally.

- And I'd like to.

- Yes, yes.

- In the state of Middlevania, like every other pro-life state in the country that has any protections for unborn life in the question of abortion, if the life of the mother is at risk, then you can induce labor.

So the question we've been talking about is how do you determine the risk to the life of the mother?

And so that's always been in every pro-life state an option.

- But pregnancy is not perfect.

About 30% of pregnancies, you have stillbirth or miscarriage.

That's a high percentage.

That's not like 1% or 2%, so that's crisis that happens.

- Andrea?

- Yeah, I wanna push back a little bit.

I think every pregnancy is perfect.

Even a pregnancy that doesn't end in the birth of a live baby.

- Is it perfect if a woman dies?

That's not perfect if a woman dies, and we know and have knowledge that she could die.

- My personal view is I'm satisfied with Middlevania's law, but I'm also satisfied with the doctor's advice that going home and monitoring it extremely closely seems like a reasonable course of action here.

- Absolutely, and we're very serious about working with her doctor and with the hospital to be as informed as we can as she's progressing and hopefully gaining the weeks that doctor over here was able to gain and be able to see her child born safely.

- Okay, Christine makes it two more weeks.

She's now 23 weeks pregnant, but the next night, Christine wakes up, chills, a fever.

You rush her to the hospital.

It is the longest hours of your life, but at the end of it, Christine survives.

The baby survives too.

You have a new member of your family, a granddaughter.

- Darn right.

- We've now talked about several difficult life and death decisions.

We have one more hard decision to talk about.

Dr.

Gunter, we talked earlier about a woman's right in your view to have an abortion early in pregnancy.

I'm wondering if there is a point in time in pregnancy with a healthy mother and a healthy fetus when you think it's no longer permissible, morally wrong for the woman to choose an abortion?

- Yeah, no, I think people, choice in all matters.

I am a firm believer in choice, but the fictional scenario of people coming in at 36 weeks or whatever, wanting to have an abortion just doesn't happen.

- [Aaron] Okay.

- So.

- Then if you outlaw it, it doesn't change a thing.

- I believe that people deserve choice through their whole pregnancy.

And so I have a huge moral problem because that young girl who's 32 weeks pregnant, who was raped by her brother, who couldn't get permission to get the abortion until she was 32 weeks because she had to get, she had to be made a ward of the state, and then the state had to find a way to get her to a state where she could have it.

That's why I believe it because no young girl should be forced to have a pregnant, a delivery when she was raped by her brother.

- Dr.

Wynia?

- I would much rather not have the state involved in these decisions at all.

They are not decisions that are amenable to law because laws are blunt instruments, and medical decision making is not blunt.

It is nuanced.

It is detailed.

It is individualized.

It's a terrible idea to write a law about a medical practice of whatever sort because you are never going to be able to capture the challenging circumstances of actually talking through these types of decisions with individual patients.