(typewriter clicking) (bell ringing) - [Susie] Hi, this is Susie Yang and this is White Ivy, a book that follows Ivy Lin, a Chinese-American immigrant, as she lies, schemes and manipulates her way into Gideon's heart and marrying into his very privileged patrician family.

(gentle music) - [J.T.]

Where did the kernel of this story come from?

- [Susie] I decided very early on that I wanted to write an antihero character, so I was thinking about all the male antiheroes that I really love.

You know, I was watching Breaking Bad at the time.

I love The Dark Knight.

So there was such a tradition of strong personalitied men going to great lengths to achieve something, even doing really horrible things.

So I really wanted to show a female character and how she would bring about her own downfall and destruction by pursuing something to its very end.

- [J.T.]

How does otherness and the concept of the antihero play into your work?

- [Susie] They're two separate things, but combining them is kind of interesting because it sort of brings sympathy to the antihero.

You know, you can almost say they do all these bad things because they're so lonely or really misunderstood.

- [J.T.]

Is the title literal or metaphorical?

- It comes from the proverb in the beginning of the book.

"The snow goose need not bathe to make itself white".

And I really love that proverb because it really speaks to this idea of intrinsic values versus extrinsic things.

So, Ivy is somebody who, she wants to be naturally good, she wants to be naturally beautiful and she admires people who appear to do these things and be these things effortlessly, but yet, all of the qualities that she has that are good, she kind of rejects them and she wants to emulate other people.

So to me, White Ivy speaks to sort of almost wanting something you can't ever have, by the very nature of what it is that you want, which is imitation.

- For more of my conversation with Susie Yang you can go to awordonwords.org.

I'm J.T.

Ellison.

Keep reading.

(typewriter ringing) - [Susie] I would say the most pleasurable part to write was probably the scenes in China, because it felt like Ivy is getting an education of sorts, and I'm always interested in that type of arch, you know, where it's a coming of age, you know?

You go from thinking the world is one way to realizing that it could be some other way.