COMING UP ON IVORY TOWER WE ASK .

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SHOULD STATESOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT REGULATE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE?

ALSO NOW THAT PRESIDENT OBAMA IS THE TARGET, DOES THE SUPREME COURT IMMUNITY RULING TAKE ON NEW MEANING?

AND IS IT TIME TO CALL IN THE EPA FOR HELP WITH SYRACUSE'S LEAD PROBLEMS?

STAY TUNED FOR ANSWERS FROM THE PROFESSORS NEXT ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ GOOD EVENING AND, WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

I'M NINA MOORE OF COLGATE UNIVERSITY.

THE PROFESSORS JOINING ME AROUND THE TABLE TONIGHT ARE: BEN BAUGHMAN OF GANNON UNIVERSITY MICHAEL TILLOTSON OF SUNY CORTLAND AND ANIRBAN ACHARYA OF LEMOYNE COLLEGE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, THE TECHNOLOGY THAT HAS THE POWER TO CHANGE EVERYTHING AND I MEAN EVERYTHING FROM EDUCATION, HEALTHCARE AND THE ARTS, TO TRANSPORTATION, ELECTIONS, NEWS AND EVEN DATING .

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THE QUESTION ON THE TABLE TONIGHT IS: WHO SHOULD REGULATE IT---STATES OR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT?

PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS EXPRESSED HIS WORRIES ABOUT STATE CONTROL THE OFFICIAL WHITE HOUSE AI ACTION PLAN?

IS TO WITHHOLD FUNDING FROM STATES THAT PASS QUOTE-UNQUOTE "BURDENSOME AI REGULATIONS" SO, BEN, WHO CAN DO A BETTER JOB OF REGULATING A.I.?

STATES OR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT?

>> IT NEEDS TO BE UNIFIED.

IT NEEDS TO BE A UNIFIED APPROACH BUT I ALSO THINK, SO FEDERAL IS THE QUICK ANSWER FOR THAT.

BUT I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE A MARKET DRIVEN BODY, A REGULATORY BODY.

AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS SOME ORGANIZATION THAT WILL CERTIFY THESE COMPANIES LIKE IF YOU HAVE THE AUTOMATED DRIVING CAR.

THERE IS A LOT OF RISK TO HUMAN LIFE THERE.

IF YOU ARE CERTIFIED, THAT GIVES PEOPLE THAT ARE BUYING INTO THE COMPANY SOME REASSURANCE THAT THEY HAVE BEEN CERTIFIED BY AN OUTSIDE BODY, SO THAT'S A POSITIVE THING.

AND IN ADDITION TO THAT, YOU ALSO MIGHT REDUCE THE LITIGATION IF IT COMES UP, WHERE, HEY, THIS COMPANY WAS NOT CERTIFIED BY THIS OUTSIDE REGULATORY BODY AND SOMEBODY DIED VERSUS THIS ONE DID THEIR DUE DILIGENCE AND BEST PRACTICES.

I THINK THOSE ARE SOME THINGS THAT COULD BE PUT IN PLACE.

BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS RAPIDLY EVOLVING SO IT HAS TO HAVE SOME REAL WORLD PRACTITIONERS BEHIND LOOKING AT IT LIKE APPLIED INTELLIGENCE FIELD, CYBER INTELLIGENCE WHERE YOU ARE LOOKING WITHIN A SCOPE OF A PARTICULAR AREA OF A.I.

>> YEAH, THAT'S A FASCINATING PERSPECTIVE.

I WASN'T EXPECTING THAT, BEN.

NOT BECAUSE IT WAS-- WHATEVER.

SO LET ME ASK YOU THIS.

ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT INDUSTRY REGULATORS OR GOVERNMENT REGULATORS?

YOU SAID THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE THE CENTER POINT.

BUT TALK TO ME MORE ABOUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR THOSE REGULATORS?

WHERE ARE THOSE IN THE PRIVATE OR GOVERNMENT INDUSTRY?

>> PRIVATE IS THE QUICK ANSWER.

THERE IS QUITE A FEW THINKERS IN THIS AREA, THIS SPACE.

ONE FROM JOHN HOPKINS, A DOCTOR THAT HAS BEEN WORKING ON THIS AREA FOR A BIT.

AND THEY'RE STILL FLUSHING OUT THE DETAILS BUT IT DOES LOOK LIKE IF IT IS REGULATORY BODY IS GOING TO HELP THE ECONOMY, IT'S GOING TO HELP WITH THE SHAREHOLDERS AND SO FORTH.

BY IN PARTICULAR, THE KNOWLEDGE BASE IS-- THE LEGISLATORS ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO KEEP UP WITH IT.

SO HAVE YOU TO HAVE EXPERTS WITHIN A PARTICULAR SCOPE AREA, LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE AUTOMATED DRIVING CAR, OR THIS ONE IS A.I.

GENERATED VIDEOS.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE EXPERTS THAT CAN LOOK AT BEST PRACTICES BECAUSE IT IS CHANGING DAILY.

>> YOU KNOW, TALKING OF EXPERT, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE THE MOST CITED PEOPLE IN DEEP THINKING A.I.

MODELS.

THEY GOT THE TOURING AWARD.

THEY ARE PART OF THE X-RISK COMMUNITY.

JEFFREY HINTON, ESPECIALLY, I THINK RESIGNED FROM MICROSOFT.

THEY'RE WORNING VERY SEVERELY AND THESE ARE EXPERTS, IF YOU DON'T REGULATE A.I., YOU CAN SEE DOWN THE LINE OF DESTRUCTION OF HUMANITY.

PEOPLE HAVE SAID THIS IS FEAR MONGERING.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT IT, THE WAY A.I.

MIGHT ACTUALLY BECOME SUPER INTELLIGENT AND KIND OF HAVE THEIR OWN MOTIVES, NOT JUST FOLLOW HUMAN MOTIVES, WE CAN SEE CERTAIN CATASTROPHES DOWN THE LINE.

BUT IN THE SHORT-TERM, I DO THINK THERE IS ONE IMPORTANT ASPECT OF REGULATION THAT SHOULD BELONG THE STATES IF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS NOT HELPING, WHICH IS IN THE CASE OF, YOU KNOW, NEGATIVE EXTERN ALTS-- EXETER NALTS.

LIKE THE COOLLY DAM, LIKE WASHINGTON, IT PRODUCES ELECTRICITY.

ONE OF THE LARGE LARGEST HYDRO ELECTRIC PROJECTS IN THE WORLD AND DOWNSTREAM THERE IS THE A.I.

CENTER THAT IS PROJECTED TO INCREASE POWER CONSUMPTION BY 15%.

SO EVERY A.I.

MODEL WE RUN HAVE HUGE DEMANDS ON ELECTRICITY AND POWER.

THIS CANS CAN NOT BE LEFT TO THE MARKETS BECAUSE ELECTRICITY IS A PUBLIC UTILITY.

I SEE A VERY IMPORTANT REASON FOR STATES, BECAUSE OF HEALTH REASONS, ENVIRONMENTAL REASONS, BEING HAVING TO REGULATE, RIGHT, YOU KNOW,MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF WATER, 345SIVE AMOUNTS OF ELECTRICITY.

EUROPEAN UNION HAS WALKED THAT PATH BUT FOR NOW THE A.I.

LOBBY IS WINNING.

BUT I DO THINK FOR THESE REASONS, ESPECIALLY THE X-FACTOR COMMUNITY RINGING THE BELL OF WARNING AND MASSIVE ELECTRICITY USAGE AND SO ON, AND LASTLY I WOULD JUST QUICKLY POINT OUT THAT YES, A.I.

GENERATES EXTRAORDINARY PROFITS, THEY WILL TAKE AWAY THE JOBS OF A LOT OF PEOPLE.

HOW ARE WE GOING TO SHARE THAT VALUE?

HOW ARE WE GOING TO SHARE THE PROFITS AMONG PEOPLE WHO ARE LOSING THEIR JOBS TO IT, EVEN ACTORS, RIGHT?

AND SO ON.

TO LIKE LOOK AT AICHT THINGS AND KIND OF FIGURE OUT A QUIZ.

AND I FAILED THAT QUIZ, RIGHT?

I GOT ONLY FOUR CORRECT.

>> IF YOU USE A.I., YOU WOULD HAVE PASSED.

>> THIS IS THE THING AND THAT COULD BE THE PROBLEM, RIGHT?

SO THERE WERE 150 INDUSTRY LEADERS, INCLUDING ELON MUSK AND STEVEN HAWKING WHO GOT TOGETHER.

THEYY SLINGS SAID THE REAL PROBLEM HERE, THE MORE DANGEROUS EXTERNALITY THAT IS POSSIBLE IS HUMAN EXTINCTION.

YOU MENTIONED A NUMBER OF INDUSTRIES: THERE IS EDUCATION, THERE IS ALSO SELF-DRIVING CARS WHICH WE HAVE SEEN THE UPS AND DOWNS OF.

THERE IS HEALTHCARE, PRIVACY CONCERNS.

DEEP FAKE AND ELECTIONS.

THERE ARE ALL OF THESE THINGS, AND SO THE QUESTION BECOMES HOW MUCH CAN WE DEPEND ON PROFIT-DRIVEN INDUSTRIES TO ACTUALLY DO THE SORTS OF THINGS THAT'S BEN TALKED ABOUT?

>> SO THERE HAS BEEN A LONG TRADITION OF PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THAT, IN THE LONG-TERM, WHAT A.I.

WILL PRESENT ITSELF IS THIS KIND OF INDISPENSABLE PUBLIC UTILITY.

AND SINCE IT IS INDISPENSABLE PUBLIC UTILITY, IT SHOULD BE REGULATED LIKE WE REGULATE ELECTRICITY.

THERE IS A PUBLIC POLICY INITIATIVE THOUGHT IN TERMS OF THAT.

>> MICHAEL, I KNOW YOU HAVE GIVEN US A LOT THE OF THOUGHT.

>> ON ANOTHER LEVEL.

I HEAR THE WORD MARKET AND A.I.

THERE IS GOING TO BE A PUSH FOR LESS REGULATION.

WHENEVER MARKETS COME INTO THE CONVERSATION, FEDERAL OR STATE LEVEL THERE IS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM BECAUSE THE LOBBY GROUPS ARE POWERFUL.

ONE THING WE CANNOT FORGET AND WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT ON THIS SHOW BEFORE, IF YOU ALLOW MARKETS TO DRIVE THINGS, THE VULNERABLE ARE GOING TO BE FORGOTTEN.

WE ARE GOING TO FORGET ABOUT THE TEENAGERS, TEEN SUICIDE RATES, SELF LARGE, LACK OF COMMUNICATION SKILLS, ALL OF THESE THINGS.

UNLESS WE HAVE COGNITIVE IMPAIRMENT, WE COME FROM A SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT MODEL.

PRODUCTS OF OUR EXPOSURE EXPERIENCES AND SHAPES OUR PSYCHOLOGICAL PROFILE AND OUR WORLD VIEW.

FOR TEENAGERS, DISPROPORTIONATE AMOUNT OF VALUE ON THE OPINION OF STRANGERS THAT SHAPE THEIR IDENTITY N. THEIR WORLD, THE OPINION OF STRANGERS COMES FROM SOCIAL MEDIA WHICH LEADS TO MANY CASES SELF-HARM.

I'M EXTREMELY CONCERNED ABOUT PARENTS NOT TOPIC.

MR. TRUMP BELIEVES THAT FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA'S HANDLING OF RUSSIAN ELECTION INTERFERENCE IN THE 2016 ELECTION AMOUNTS TO .

"SERIOUS TREASON", BUT HE'S LEAVING IT TO ATTORNEY GENERAL PAM BONDI TO DECIDE WHETHER TO PURSUE CHARGES AGAINST OBAMA .

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THING IS .

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THE SUPREME COURT RULED LAST APRIL THAT FORMER PRESIDENTS CANNOT BE CRIMINALLY PROSECUTED FOR "OFFICIAL ACTS" THAT ARE CARRIED OUT DURING THE COURSE OF THEIR PRESIDENCY .

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LAST YEAR DEMOCRATS WERE FIERCELY CRITICAL OF THE DECISION .

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BUT NOW THAT THE TABLES HAVE TURNED.

ANIRBAN, IS IT GLAD TO-- IS IT GOOD THAT THE COURT SHIELDED FORMER PRESIDENTS FROM DRILL PROSECUTION?

SHOULD WE SEE THIS NOW IN A IN YOU LIGHT?

>> YEAH, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU, NINA.

I REMEMBER THE LIBERAL COMMENTARY LOSING THEIR MIND AT THAT TIME.

AND WE AT "IVORY TOWER," WE HAD A MUCH MORE NUANCED AND KNOWLEDGEABLE RESPONSE TO THAT.

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

UNDER THE SYSTEM OF SEPARATION OF POWERS, THE SUPREME COURT SAYS THE PRESIDENT MAY NOT BE PROSECUTED FOR EXERCISING HIS CORE CONSTITUTIONAL POWER AND IS ENTITLED TO AT LEAST SOME PRESUMPTIVE IMMUNITY FOR PROSECUTION FOR HIS OFFICIAL CASES.

THIS DOESN'T EXTEND TO UNOFFICIAL ACTS.

THERE IS NO IMMUNITY FOR UNOFFICIAL ACTS.

SO AS A RESULT, WHAT I THINK IS THAT THE SUPREME COURT SAW THIS AS AND MADE THIS DEDECISION THAT WOULD HOLD BACK DIFFERENT BELLICOSE PRESIDENTS GOING AFTER EACH OTHER THAT WE SEE, UNFORTUNATELY MANY OF THE DEVELOPING COUNTRIES.

IT DOESN'T GIVE A GOOD BRANDING FOR THE UNITED STATES IF IF YOUR COMMANDER IN CHIEFS ARE SUING EACH OTHER.

SO FOR NOW, WITH THE OBAMA CASE IN LEGAL TERMS, IT'S MOOT, RIGHT?

THE VERY REASON FOR THAT CASE COULD HAVE COME UP HAS NOW DISSIPATED.

I DO THINK IT IS A VERY GOOD DECISION THAT SUPREME COURT TOOK.

AND AS A RESULT, OBAMA CANNOT BE PROSECUTED BECAUSE THESE ARE ALL WITHIN HIS OFFICIAL ACTS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, AND I WANT TO BE A CONTRARIAN HERE, SONIA CANT MIRE POINTED OUT THAT PRESIDENT CAN NOW ORDER NAVY SEAL TEAM 6 TO ASSASSINATE POLITICAL RIVAL AND THEY WOULD BE IMMUNE.

THIS IS STRETCHING IT TOWARDS A LITTLE FAR BUT SHE IS AN AMAZING JURIST SO I'LL KEEP IT AT THAT.

>> YEAH, I BELIEVE IT WAS JUSTICE GORSUCH WHO OPINED-- NO, CHIEF CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS THAT U.S. V TRUMP WAS A RULE FOR THE AGES, IRRESPECTIVE OF THE PARTICULARS SO YOU DID, IN FACT, MENTION THAT.

>> MENTIONS THE STABILITY OF THE UNION IN WAYS WE COULDN'T HAVE SEEN AT THAT TIME.

>> MICHAEL.

>> I THIS I FOR QUITE SOMETIME, THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF LAS HAD A TUMOR IN HIS BRAIN ABOUT OBAMA FOR A LONG TIME.

I THINK A COMMON POINT MENTIONED IN MANY PLACES IS THE IDEA THAT TREASON CONTRADICTS THE BIPARTISAN SENATE INTELLIGENCE REPORT THAT MARCO RUBIO WAS THE HEAD OF THAT THAT WE ALL KNOW AT THIS POINT.

I THINK PERHAPS IT'S ANOTHER SPAGHETTI ON THE WALL TACTIC TO SEE IF IT WOULD STICK.

I HATE TO TRIVIALIZE IT TO SAY IT IS A DISTRACTION FROM THE EPSTEIN MOMENT BUT TO CALL IT TREASON IS A BIT MUCH.

>> SOME FOLKS ARE SAYING IT IS A DISTRACTION BECAUSE DID YOU HEAR THE LATEST, PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID OBAMA SHOULD THANK HIM FOR HAVING SECURED THIS DECISION.

>> THAT'S A BIT RICH TO PUT IT MILDLY.

BUT YOU CAN'T PUT NOTHING PAST THE CURRENT PRESIDENT.

>> BEN.

>> THE TIMING WAS UNFORTUNATE FOR THE INFORMATION TO COME OUT.

IT DOES DISTRACT AND TAKE AWAY FROM ANY MERITS IT MIGHT ACTUALLY HAVE FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA BECAUSE IT WAS THOROUGHLY INVESTIGATED TWICE WHILE TRUMP WAS PRESIDENT THE FIRST TIME.

AND THAT WAS A REPUBLICAN-LED SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE THAT OVERSAW IT.

SO THERE WAS INDICATORS, CLEARLY, THAT RUSSIA ATTEMPTED TO PERSUADE PEOPLE TO VOTE A PARTICULAR WAY, OR AT LEAST PIT US AGAINST EACH OTHER.

SO THERE WAS INTERFERENCE, TO BE CLEAR.

TO WHAT EXTENT OBAMA STAFF AND SOME OTHER PLANNING THAT HAS BEEN THROWN AROUND THERE LIKE CONSPIRACY THEORIES, IT SOUNDS LIKE CONSPIRACY THEORIES BECAUSE OF THE TIMING IN PARTICULAR FOR ME.

>> IT DOES SOUND LIKE CONSPIRACY THEORY BUT IF THE NEW YORK TIMES AND OTHER PLACES ARE TO GO BY, OBAMA, IT SEEMS THAT OBAMA DID SOMETHING THAT IS KIND OF EXTRAORDINARY LIKE ASKING EVERYONE TO REPORT A-- TO PRODUCE A REPORT AT LARGE SPEED AND USING ALL AVAILABLE EVIDENCES THAT IS AVAILABLE.

AND THAT SEEMS, TO MANY OBSERVERS AS SOMETHING THE THAT IS EXTRAORDINARY THAT HE DID, ESPECIALLY TOWARDS THE END OF HIS TERM AND COULD HAVE BEEN DONE TO KIND OF HURT TRUMP.

SO I'M NOT SAYING IT IS COMPLETELY CONSPIRATORIAL BUT IT'S MOOT.

THE SUPREME COURT HAS DONE A GOOD JOB THAT YOU CAN'T PROSECUTE PEOPLE LIKE THAT, ESPECIALLY THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF.

>> IF COULD I GO BACK TO BEN'S EXCELLENT POINT ABOUT THE TIMING OF THIS, AND I KNOW WE HAVE ALL TOUCHED ON THAT.

BUT HERE IS WHERE I GET STUCK.

THIS OCCURRED IN 2016.

IN 2016.

AND FOR THE NEXT FOUR YEARS AFTER THAT, TRUMP WAS IN OFFICE AND IN A POSITION TO DO SOMETHING THEN.

SO THE QUESTION BECOMES WHY NOW?

BEN, DO YOU HAVE SOME THOUGHTS ABOUT WHY BRING THIS UP NOW?

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

IT WAS A BAD WEEK FOR TRUMP WITH EPSTEIN CASE THAT CONTINUES TO GAIN TRACTION.

HE ATTEMPTED, I THINK, BASED ON THE INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE AT HAND, MAYBE SOME MORE STUFF IS GOING TO COME TO LIGHT.

THAT'S MA I MEAN, THE TIMING, PUTTING IT OUT THERE WHEN YOU ARE TRYING TO MISDIRECT THE NEGATIVE ATTENTION ON YOURSELF, THAT IS WHAT IT APPEARS TO BE BASED ON IT COMING OUT DURING THE WEEK WHERE HE WAS GETTING A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF PRESSURE ABOUT THE EPSTEIN CASE.

AND THAT'S WHAT I MEAN BY TIMING.

THERE IS SOME SMOKE THERE.

IF WHAT BONDI IS SAYING IS TRUE, THERE ARE SMINGS THAT DOES MATTER.

I DON'T THINK IT'S MOOT.

I THINK IT DOES MATTER.

BUT INTELLIGENCE DOES EVOLVE, CONSTANTLY CHANGING.

WHEN YOU GET MORE INFORMATION, YOU HAVE TO LOOK INTO IT.

>> DEFINITELY.

IT'S NOT ENTIRELY MOOT BECAUSE WHAT TRUMP SAID, MICHAEL, WHEN HE CAME OUT AND SAID OBAMA SHOULD THANK ME IS HE SAID IT APPEARS, BASED ON THE DECISION THAT HE SOLICITED FROM THE COURT, OBAMA IS IMMUNE FROM PROSECUTION BUT HE WAS VERY CLEAR TO POINT OUT NOT THE PEOPLE AROUND HIM.

SO WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT?

>> I THINK THE PRESIDENT KNOWS HIS CONSTITUENTS WELL.

HE KNOWS OBAMA IS ALSO GOING TO DEALING WITH ELECTION INTERFERENCE IN THE CASE OF OBAMA HE WAS OR DEALING WITH INTERFERENCE ON THE PART OF A FOREIGN ADVERSARY IN THE AND IN THE CASE OF TRUMP, HE WAS DEALING WITH ELECTION FRAUD.

SO IS THIS A DIFFERENCE WITHOUT A DISTINCTION.

WEREN'T THEY BOTH FIGHTING THE SAME THING?

>> OBAMA HAD SERVED TWO TERMS.

HE WAS LEAVING THE OVAL OFFICE.

WHERE THERE IS NO SMOKE AND SOME TRACTION, I THINK IS WITH HILLARY CLINTON AND SOME OF THE EXCHANGES THAT CAME OUT BETWEEN HER AND THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, BUT THE TIMING, IT DETRACTS FROM IT.

>> THE TIMING IS A PROBLEM.

AND SO NOW IT'S TIME FOR US TO GO TO OUR NEXT STORY WHEN HAPPENS TO BE A STORY THAT IS MUCH CLOSER TO HOME.

FOR YEARS NOW .

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THE CITY OF SYRACUSE HAS BEEN DOGGED BY LEAD PROBLEMS .

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MAYOR BEN WALSH AND COUNTY EXECUTIVE RYAN MCMAHON SAY THAT THEY'RE INVESTING "UNPRECEDENTED RESOURCES" TRYING TO FIX THEM .

THEY'RE DOING EVERYTHING THEY CAN .

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BUT A LOCAL COMMUNITY GROUP - CALLED FAMILIES FOR LEAD FREEDOM NOW - IS PETITIONING THE U.S. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY TO USE ITS EMERGENCY POWERS TO FORCE THE STATE AND THE CITY TO DO MORE TO ADDRESS WHAT THEY CALL A A "LEAD WATER CRISIS."

SO, MICHAEL, DO YOU THINK IT'S TIME FOR THE E.P.A.

TO STEP IN NOW AND CALL IN THE BIG DOGS?

>> WHEN IT COMES TO LEAD WE CAN TALK ABOUT ELEVATED BLOOD LEAFS AND MICROGRAMS AND DATA STUDIES, DATA DRIVEN ANALYSIS OF THE LEAD PROBLEM AND THOSE ARE GOOD CONVERSATIONS TO HAVE.

BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN POLITICAL WILL AND THE LACK OF VALUE OF HUMAN LIFE OF CERTAIN MEMBERS OF THE HUMAN FAMILY, RIGHT?

THE POPULATIONS AT HAND, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A CERTAIN SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS, CERTAIN ZIP CODES.

WHETHER THAT'S LEAD IN PLACES LIKE JACKSON, MISSISSIPPI OR LEAD IN THE WATER LIKE FLINT, MICHIGAN OR SYRACUSE, NEW YORK, THE COMMON DENOMINATOR IS SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS, ZIP CODES AND CONCENTRATED POVERTY WHICH LEADS TO SLOW OR NO ACTION BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF VALUE IN OF OF THOSE IN DECISION MAKING POSITIONS SHOW TO THESE POPULATIONS.

BACK TO 1991, A BOOK WHERE THEY TALKED ABOUT THE EXACT ISSUE IN 1991 AND CHILDREN WERE SENT TO SCHOOL WITH BRAIN TUMORS AND CANCER AND LEARNING DISABILITIES.

WE ARE STARTING TO SEE THAT HERE IN SYRACUSE AS WELL.

SO FOR ME, ALL OF A SUDDEN, THESE PEOPLE IN SYRACUSE ARE PRAISING THEMSELVES FOR DRAGGING THEIR FEET.

I FIND THAT VERY HARD TO WATCH, WHETHER IT'S WALSH OR FITZGERALD OR BOTH.

>> YEAH, WE DO REMEMBER K KOZAR'S SAVAGE INEQUALITY.

YOU ARE SAYING THAT THE REASON IT IS NOT PUSHED BECAUSE IT'S POOR FOLK, BLACK AND BROWN FOLK AS WELL.

IS THERE ALSO AN ISSUE OF SYRACUSE OF HAVING A VERY SMALL TAX BASE AND SHRINKING POPULATION.

COULD IT BE STRUCTURAL ISSUES ALSO IN PLACE IN ADDITION TO THE MOTIVATIONS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

>> THEY FIND MONEY FOR OTHER THINGS.

I WILL LEAVE IT AT THAT.

>> I MEAN THIS IS A GOOD FEDERALISM AT PLAY, RIGHT?

LIKE IF THE LOCAL COMMUNITY THINKS THAT THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT IS NOT DOING SOMETHING, THEY SHOULD HAVE THEIR RIGHT TO APPEAL TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OR THE STATE GOVERNMENT TO FORCE THAT ACTION.

I WILL, HOWEVER, SAY THOUGH, THE PROBLEM HERE IS ABOUT 14,000 HOUSEHOLDS, RIGHT, THAT NEED TO BE REMOVED OF LEAD, THE LEAD-IN PIPES IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS, AND THE CONTENTION IS THAT FROM THE NON-PROFIT HERE IS THAT THE DATA THAT BEN WALSH, THE MAYOR'S OFFICE OR THE CITY RELEASED, THEY'RE IMPERFECT WRONG DATA, RIGHT?

THEY HAVE COLLECTED THE DATA IN SUCH A WAY TO SHOW THAT IT COMPLIES WITH THE E.P.A.

BUT ACCORDING TO INDEPENDENT EXPERIMENTS OR RESEARCH, THEY SHOW THAT ACTUALLY THE LEAD TODAY IS MUCH MORE ELEVATED.

ONE OF THE STATISTICS I SAW THAT BLACK KIDS, ABOUT 15% MORE LIKELY THAN WHITE KIDS TO HAVE ELEVATED LEAD LEVELS.

AND THIS TALKS TO THE SAF SAVAGE INEQUALITY STRUCTURE WITHIN CITIES.

THE CITY HAS DONE SOMETHING.

ONE OF THE THINGS I NOTICED LAST YEAR IS THAT A LOT OF-- ALL THE KIDS IN SYRACUSE CITY SCHOOL DISTRICT GOT A NICE FILTER, BRITA FILTER, THEY CAN USE THAT AT HOME.

BUT YES, I DO THINK IT SHOULD BE DONE AT A HIGHER PACE AND ALSO TRANSPARENCY.

I COULDN'T REALLY FIND MUCH DATA ABOUT WHAT IS THE MAP?

WHERE ARE THE LEAD PIPES?

WHAT NEEDS TO BE REMEDIATED.

TRAIT TRANSPARENCY ISSUE MAKES ME WORRIED AND THAT MAY BE ONE OF THE REASONS THESE PEOPLE ARE ALSO WORRIED AT THE SAME TIME.

>> YEAH, SOMETHING YOU TOUCHED ON.

IT GOES BACK TO A CONVERSATION I HAD A NEIGHBOR OF MINE WHO HAPPENS TO BE OVER PART OF THIS ISSUE.

AND WHAT HE EXPLAINED TO ME IS THAT THE ISSUE ISN'T SO MUCH THE WATER AS MUCH AS IT IS THE PIPES, AS YOU SUGGESTED, THAT LEAD INTO THE HOMES.

AND SO DOESN'T THAT SUGGEST AN INFRASTRUCTURE ISSUE THAT THIS IS THE SORT OF THING THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COULD PROVIDE HUGE AMOUNTS OF FUNDING FOR TO CORRECT THAT AS OPPOSED TO LEAVING IT TO THE HOMEOWNERS?

>> I ABSOLUTELY AGREE.

AND ALL OUR-- MY NEIGHBORHOOD AND OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS AROUND LeMOYNE COLLEGE I KNOW, THEY ACTUALLY HAD-- THEY PLANTED RED FLAGS AND CAME AND DUG UP THE LEAD PIPES FOR CERTAIN HOMES, NOT OTHERS.

AND, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA IS THAT WE ONLY HAVE THAT MAP FOR MORE RECENT HOUSES.

OLDER HOUSES WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY ARE.

I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU.

WE NEED A LARGE FEDERAL OR STATE SUPPORT TO KIND OF MAP THIS, HAVE MORE TRANSPARENT DATA PUBLIC OUTREACH AND SO.

>> BEN, YOU HAVE ONE MINUTE FOR YOUR THOUGHTS.

>> THE PRIMARY ROLE OF THE GOVERNMENT IS TO PROTECT PEOPLE.

AND THEY NEED TO STEP UP AND PROTECT PEOPLE.

THEY HAVE, BUT IT'S NOT FAST ENOUGH.

SECURED ALMOST $23 MILLION TO FIX 3,000 OF THE HOMES THIS YEAR AND THE REST OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS.

IT'S NOT FAST ENOUGH.

THEY ARE WORKING TOWARDS FIXING IT.

HOPEFULLY THEY DO MORE FILTERS IN THE MEANTIME.

>> AND PERHAPS AT SOME POINT WE WILL BE ABLE TO GIVE THEM AN A FORESTER AND ALSO SUCCESS.

NOW IT'S TIME FOR US TO TURN TO OUR AS AND FS.

WE'LL START BEN WITH YOUR F. >> MY F IS GOING TO THE ORLEANS PARISH SHERIFFS JAIL FOR MISTAKENLY RELEASING A MAN FACING MULTIPLE VIOLENT CHARGES THIS WEEK.

THIS IS THE SAME JAIL THAT JUST TWO MONTHS AGO 10 INMATES ESCAPED THROUGH A HOLE IN THE WALL FROM THE TOILET.

AND STILL ONE OF THOSE INMATES IS STILL AT LARGE FOR FOUR DIFFERENT PEOPLE BEING KILLED.

THIS WEEK, THE PERSON THAT WAS RELEASED IS WANTED FOR MULTIPLE VIOLENT CHARGES, INCLUDING HAVING STOLEN PROPERTY, DRUG PARAPHERNALIA, RESISTING ARREST, ASSAULT WITH A FIREARM, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, CHILD ENDANGERMENT AND HOME INVASION.

HE IS ON THE LOOSE, TOO.

>> MICHAEL, YOUR F. >> TO THE STATE OF TEXAS FOR THE PROPOSED GERRYMANDERING TACTIC.

KOWTOWING TO THE PRESIDENT.

>> AND ANIRBAN.

>> MY F GOES TO THE APPOINTMENT OF DARREN BEATY TO LEAD THE U.S. INSTITUTE OF PEACE.

FIRED FROM THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION FOR ATTENDING A GATHERING OF WHITE NATIONALISTS IN THE FIRST ADMINISTRATION.

THE FIRST DARREN WHO WENT FULL KAREN AND WROTE IN X, COMPETENT WHITE MEN MUST BE IN CHARGE IF YOU WANT THINGS TO WORK.

I GUESS HE MEANT RACIST WHITE MEN BUT WE WILL LEAVE IT AT THAT.

>> HE CALLED IT COMPETENT WHITE MEN.

>> COMPETENT WHITE MEN SHOULD BE LEFT ALONE TO DO THEIR JOBS.

THAT'S WHAT HE THINKS, TO GET THINGS DONE.

>> FASCINATING.

AND SO-- WE GOT TO GO TO SOME POSITIVE STUFF.

SO NOW WE ARE GOING TO SWITCH TO AS AGAIN STARTING WITH YOU, BEN.

>> ALL RIGHT.

I'M GIVING MY A TO THE ARKANSAS STATE POLICE FOR RAPIDLY IDENTIFYING AND ARRESTING A SUSPECT IN THE RECENT DEVIL'S DEN DOUBLE HOMICIDE CASE THAT HAPPENED EARLIER THIS WEEK.

THE SUSPECT ATTACKED A FAMILY OF FOUR THAT WERE HIKING IN THAT STATE PARK.

THE HUSBAND AND WIFE CLINTON BRINK AND KRISTIN BRINK LOST THEIR LIVES PROTECTING THEIR SEVEN AND NINE-YEAR-OLD.

>> QUICKLY MICHAEL.

>> MY A TO THE PRODUCER OF THIS SO, DOUG.

WHEN THEY CAME TO SUNY CORTLAND AND I SAW THEM WORK FOR EIGHT HOURS SETTING UP THAT WHOLE PRODUCTION, ALL THE INTERNS, THE PRODUCTION STAFF, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> YES, EXCELLENT.

TO ALL OF US, FROM ALL OF US.

>> A GOES TO ALL LIVES AGAINST THE EXTERMINATION OF PALESTINIANS, PHYSICIANS FOR HUMAN RIGHTS WHO IN A JOINT DECLARATION RELEASED THIS WEEK SHOWS METICULOUSLY HOW ISRAEL IS COMMITTING GENOCIDE BY, AMONG OTHER CRUELTIES, AND THE PHR DIRECTOR SAID WE ARE WATCHING THIS WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT OUR OWN STATE IS RESPONSIBLE AND THE WESTERN POWERS ARE COMPLICIT.

GENOCIDE COULD NOT HAPPEN WITHOUT THEIR WEAPONS, THEIR POLITICAL COVER AND THEIR SILENCE.

>> THANK YOU.

HOPEFULLY WE WILL BE ABLE TO FOLLOW UP ON THOSE NEW DEVELOPMENTS.

THAT'S IT FOR US TONIGHT HERE IN THE STUDIO BUT WE WOULD LOVE TO CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION WITH YOU.

WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WANT TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN OR SHARE IT WITH OTHERS, GO TO WCNY.ORG.

RHYME NINA MOORE.

FOR ALL OF US HERE AT "THE IVORY TOWER."

GOOD NIGHT.

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