>>> MAJOR FUNDING FOR "CHAT BOX" WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDED BY FUEL MERCHANTS OF NEW JERSEY AND SMART HEAT NJ.

THE MEMBERS OF THE NEW JERSEY EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, MAKING PUBLIC SCHOOLS GREAT FOR EVERY CHILD.

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INSIDER NJ IS COMMITTED TO GIVING SERIOUS POLITICAL PLAYERS AN INTERACTIVE FORUM FOR IDEAS, DISCUSSION, AND INSIGHT.

ONLINE AT INSIDERNJ.COM.

♪ >>> THE FIRST WEEK OF THE SECOND TERM OF THE MURPHY ADMINISTRATION.

WHAT CAN WE EXPECT, AND DID THE GOVERNOR'S INAUGURAL ADDRESS REGISTER WITH ANYONE?

HI, EVERYBODY.

WELCOME TO "CHAT BOX."

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

WE WILL DISCUSS THE MURPHY QUESTIONS IN A MINUTE.

BUT LET'S BEGIN TODAY BY EXPLORING THE MYSTERIES OF REDI REDISTRICTING, THAT TRADITION THAT HAS A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON THE STATE'S POLITICS AND GOVERNMENT AND ON YOU.

JOINING US IS A FAN OF THE CONSTITUTION AND A NERD FOR THINGS LIKE REDISTRICTING, THANK GOODNESS.

SHE IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE DEMOCRACY AND JUSTICE PROGRAM AT THE NEW JERSEY INSTITUTE FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE HENLE PATEL.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> IT'S GREAT BEING HERE, ESPECIALLY TALKING ABOUT THIS IMPORTANT TOPIC.

>> SEE, I KNEW YOU WERE A NERD FOR THIS STUFF.

I LOVE IT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> BEFORE WE GET TO THE HOW, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE WHY.

REDISTRICTING HAPPENS EVERY TEN YEARS BECAUSE?

>> SO, YES.

REDISTRICTING HAPPENS EVERY TEN YEARS TO ACCOUNT FOR CHANGES IN THE POPULATION WE SEE AFTER THE CENSUS.

WE DO REDISTRICTING IN EVERY SINGLE PART OF OUR GOVERNMENT WHERE YOU HAVE DISTRICT-PACED GOVERNMENTS.

SO CONGRESSIONAL LINES, FOR EXAMPLE, FOR THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

STATE LEGISLATIVE MAPS FOR OUR STATE LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS.

AND EVEN IN YOUR OWN CITIES, IF YOU HAVE WARD-BASED OR DISTRICT-BASED COUNCIL SEATS.

IT'S ALL ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT THE YOUR VOTE AND MY VOTE ARE ABOUT THE SAME AMOUNT OF POWER SO THAT IF YOU LIVE IN AN AREA THAT'S NOW TWICE THE SIZE OF MY AREA, YOU DON'T -- I DON'T HAVE TWICE THE VOTE YOU DO.

WE NEED DISTRICTS THAT ARE ABOUT THE SAME SIZE, ONE PERSON, ONE VOTE.

>> SO THIS IS DONE BY WHOSE ORDER?

>> IT'S IN OUR CONSTITUTION, THE U.S. CONSTITUTION, THE NEW JERSEY CONSTITUTION, RIGHT FROM THE FOUNDING OF OUR COUNTRY, TO ACCOUNT FOR THE FACT THAT ON THE BASIS OF OUR DEMOCRACY, SO THAT WE HAVE DISTRICTS ABOUT THE SAME SIZE EVERY TEN YEARS AFTER THE CENSUS, WE REDRAW THESE LINES.

>> SO IS IT ALL ABOUT SIZE SPECIFICALLY?

>> NO.

THERE'S A LOT OF FACTORS THAT GO INTO THIS.

REDISTRICTING IS COMPLICATED.

HERE'S THE MAIN THING TO REMEMBER, THOUGH, IF YOU'RE PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME.

REDISTRICTING IS ABOUT POWER.

IT IS ABOUT POWER.

THAT IS WHY IT'S ALWAYS CONTENTIOUS AND DRAMATIC, AND THE PARTIES CARE SO MUCH ABOUT IT.

BUT IT SHOULD BE ABOUT POWER FOR THE PEOPLE, FOR US, TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE LINES THAT BEST REPRESENT OUR COMMUNITIES.

IF YOU JUST DID IT BY SIZE, FOR EXAMPLE, DAVID, AS YOU MENTIONED, YOU COULD JUST REDRAW THEM AND SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT?

THEY ALL HAVE THE SAME POPULATION.

THAT'S GOOD, RIGHT?

IT DOESN'T ACCOUNT FOR THE FACT THAT THAT'S NOT EXACTLY HOW OUR COMMUNITIES GROW.

THAT'S NOT EXACTLY HOW OUR TOWNS GROW.

SO YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE WHEN WE REDRAW THESE LINES, THEY'RE NOT CUTTING UP COMMUNITIES IN HALF OR PACKING A BUNCH OF COMMUNITIES TOGETHER SO THAT NOBODY HAS A VOICE.

THAT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME LO HISTORICALLY AND DONE PURPOSELY WHERE YOU PACK OR CRACK OFTEN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, BLACK AND OTHER VOTERS OF COLOR, SO YOU REDUCE THEIR ABILITY TO HAVE INFLUENCE IN GOVERNMENT.

>> EXPLAIN WHAT THAT MEANS, PACKING AND CRACKING.

>> YEAH.

SO THIS GET NS INTO A TERM, GERRYMANDERING.

GERRYMANDERING IS WHEN YOU MANIPULATE THIS REDRAWING PROCESS TO BENEFIT ONE GROUP AT THE EXPENSE OF ANOTHER.

SO YOU OFTEN SEE THAT WITH RACIAL GERRYMANDERING OR PARTISAN GERRYMANDERING.

SO RACIAL GERRYMANDERING WE SEE HAPPEN ALL THE TIME HISTORICALLY WH WHEREIN YOU MIGHT PACK ALL THE BLACK PEOPLE IN THE STATE INTO ONE DISTRICT, SO THEY ONLY HAVE A VOICE IN ONE DISTRICT, RIGHT?

OR THEY'LL CRACK THEM, WHERE YOU PUT THEM ALL IN MULTIPLE DISTRICTS BUT THEY'RE SO SMALL, THEY DON'T HAVE A VOICE TOGETHER.

YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO DRAW THESE DISTRICTS SO THAT THEY EMPOWER THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THEM.

THAT SHOULD BE THE GOAL OF REDISTRICTING.

>> AND SO HOW IS THIS PROCESS ADMINISTERED?

>> SO IN NEW JERSEY -- IT IS DIFFERENT STATE TO STATE.

SOME STATES DO IT, JUST THEIR LEGISLATURE DOES IT.

OTHER STATES HAVE INDEPENDENT COMMISSIONS.

NEW JERSEY HAS A BIPARTISAN COMMISSION SYSTEM.

IT'S IN OUR NEW JERSEY CONSTITUTION.

SO WE HAD ONE COMMISSION WHO DREW THE CONGRESSIONAL MAPS.

WE HAVE CURRENTLY A COMMISSION THAT DOES OUR STATE LEGISLATIVE MAP.

THAT ONE'S STILL WORKING.

THE COMMISSIONS ARE BIPARTISAN, AN EQUAL NUMBER OF DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS AND AN INDEPENDENT MEMBER, WHO OFTEN GENERALLY SERVES AS A TIEBREAKER.

>> SO AS YOU SAID, IT HAPPENS ON ALL LEVELS DOWN TO YOUR CITY COUNCIL LEVEL.

IN SOME CASES RIGHT NOW, REDISTRICTING IS HAPPENING, MAPS ARE BEING DRAWN IN YOUR TOWN RIGHT NOW AS WE SPEAK.

SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THE CHALLENGES THAT THE STAKEHOLDERS FACE.

YOU TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WANTING TO BRING SOME EQUITY TO ETHNIC GROUPS AND RACIAL GROUPS AND SO ON.

BUT THIS IS VERY MUCH A PARTY FUNCTION, AND THE PARTY WANTS TO KEEP THEIR DEMOCRATIC DISTRICTS DEMOCRATIC AND THEIR REPUBLICAN DISTRICTS REPUBLICAN, RIGHT?

>> SO THIS IS WHAT I MEAN.

REDISTRICTING IS ABOUT POWER.

IT'S ABOUT POWER.

SO THE PARTIES OBVIOUSLY HAVE AN INTEREST.

THEY WANT TO DO WHAT'S BEST FOR THEIR PARTIES, RIGHT?

SO IT'S EITHER INCREASING DEMOCRATIC OR REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATION.

THAT IS ALWAYS ONE OF THEIR GOALS IN HOW REDISTRICTING IS DONE.

THEY MIGHT CARE ABOUT A LOT OF OTHER THINGS, BUT THAT BECOMES A REALLY IMPORTANT PRIORITY FOR THEM.

BUT FOR THE REST OF US, IT SHOULDN'T BE ABOUT THAT.

WE SHOULD BE PRIORITIZING THINGS LIKE, HEY, DO I LIVE IN A FOOD DESERT?

SHOULDN'T I BE ABLE TO ELECT SOMEONE THAT REPRESENTS THE INTERESTS I HAVE HERE, THAT WE HAVE NO GROCERY STORES OR THAT THERE'S NO HOSPITAL IN OUR AREA?

SO YOUR COMMUNITY HAS THOSE RESOURCES YOU NEED, SO YOU HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE THAT CARES ABOUT THAT.

AND THAT'S NOT ANALOGOUS WITH A PARTY INTEREST.

SO THOSE THINGS MATTER, AND THOSE THINGS ARE FACTORED IN WHEN YOU'RE DRAWING.

SO DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU ARE, ALL OF THE FACTORS THAT GO INTO REDISTRICTING, YOU'RE GOING TO PRIORITIZE THEM DIFFERENTLY.

THE PARTIES ARE GOING TO PRIORITIZE THE PARTIES IN INTEREST.

IT'S UP TO THE REST OF US BY PARTICIPATING TO PRIORITIZE THINGS THAT MATTER FOR OUR NEIGHBORHOODS.

>> SO IT'S TRYING TO MEET ALL OF THESE NEEDS AND ASSUAGE ALL OF THESE CONCERNS THAT WE END UP GETTING SOME DISTRICTS THAT LOOK LIKE THE LETTER "Q" AND OTHERS THAT LOOK LIKE THE LETTER "K" AND STUFF LIKE THAT, RIGHT?

>> YES.

SO THERE ARE SOME FACTORS IN REDISTRICTING.

WHEN YOU REDRAW THESE MAPS, THEY HAVE TO BE CONTIGUOUS.

THAT MEANS THEY HAVE TO CONNECT.

YOU CAN'T HAVE A DISTRICT THAT'S ONE PART HERE AND THEN A BUBBLE OVER HERE, RIGHT?

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A MAP -- A DISTRICT LIKE THAT.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE DISTRICTS THAT ARE RELATIVELY COMPACT SO YOU DON'T HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S LIKE CONNECTED ONLY BY THE NEW JERSEY TURNPIKE GOING UP AND DOWN THE STATE.

THINGS LIKE THAT MATTER WHEN YOU DRAW THESE DISTRICTS.

BUT, YES, THERE ARE ALWAYS CERTAIN CONCERNS THAT COME IN.

SOMETIMES THEY'RE DRAWN IN WEIRD SHAPES FOR GOOD REASONS, RIGHT?

THEY'RE DRAWN TOGETHER TO INCORPORATE COMMUNITIES THAT RECOGNIZE THAT THEY'RE NEXT TO EACH OTHER, THAT THEY'RE PART OF THE SAME COMMUNITY.

AND NEW JERSEY HAVING OVER 560 MUNICIPALITIES HAS SOME FUNNY-LOOKING TOWNS.

SOMETIMES THAT HAPPENS NATURALLY.

OTHER TIMES IT HAPPENS FOR GERRYMANDERING REASONS.

SO YOU HAVE TO PLAY REALLY CLOSE ATTENTION TO IT WHEN YOU HAVE FUNNY-SHAPED DISTRICTS, WHY IT'S BEEN DONE THAT WAY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

SO LET'S LOOK AT WHAT THE BIGGEST IMPACT WAS IN THIS LATEST ROUND.

AM I CORRECT THAT IT WAS IN DISTRICTS 3 AND 7?

WHAT HAPPENED THERE?

>> MAINLY.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF OTHER DISTRICTS THAT CHANGED TOO, AND EVERYONE SHOULD GO LOOK UP YOUR NEW DISTRICT.

SEE IF YOU CHANGED BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO MATTER.

WE HAVE ELECTIONS THIS YEAR.

BUT, YES, WE SAW IN THE MAP THAT WAS SELECTED, THE CONGRESSIONAL COMMISSION THAT JUST FINISHED ITS WORK TOWARDS THE END OF DECEMBER, THE DEMOCRATIC MAP WAS SELECTED BY THE INDEPENDENT MEMBER, JUSTICE WALLACE.

THAT MAP THAT IS SELECTED HAD SOME CHANGES IN IT, PROBABLY MOST DRASTICALLY IN DISTRICT 7, 11, THE 3rd.

IN TERMS RACIAL EQUITY, THE 3rd BECOMES A LITTLE BIT MORE DIVERSE TO REFLECT WHAT IT IS.

THE 7th, A LITTLE -- THERE'S NOT THAT MUCH CHANGE IN THAT.

AND IN TERMS OF PARTISAN PURPOSES, THE 3rd BECOMES MORE SAFER.

THE 7th BECOMES A LITTLE BIT MORE REPUBLICAN.

WE'RE GOING TO SEE HOW THAT ALL SHAKES OUT WHEN THE ELECTION HAPPENS THIS YEAR.

>> CERTAINLY SOMETHING WE'RE GOING TO BE HEARING ABOUT IN THE WEEKS AND THE MONTHS TO COME.

AND THEN WATCHING THE IMPACT ON RACES AROUND THE STATE NOT ONLY ON THE CONGRESSIONAL LEVEL, WHICH WE'RE ALREADY STARTING TO SEE, BUT ALSO IN THE LEGISLATURE AND IN YOUR TOWNS AND CITIES, STREET BY STREET.

HENNEL PATEL, DIRECTOR OF THE DEMOCRACY AND JUSTICE PROGRAM AT THE NEW JERSEY INSTITUTE FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE, I APPRECIATE YOUR ENERGY ON THIS ALL THE TIME AND FOR KEEPING US INFORMED ON IMPORTANT STUFF LIKE THIS.

ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANKS FOR COMING ON.

>> GREAT TALKING TO YOU.

I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO PARTICIPATE.

THERE ARE FOUR MORE PUBLIC HEARINGS ON THE STATE LEGISLATIVE SIDE.

COME PARTICIPATE.

NJISJ/REDISTRICTING NJ.

YOU CAN FIND ALL SORTS OF INFORMATION ABOUT HOW TO PARTICIPATE.

THANK YOU.

>>> THIS WEEK MARKED THE NEW LEADERSHIP IN THE LEGISLATURE AND THE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR TAKING THE OATH FOR THE SECOND TERM FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE THE 1970s.

CHRIS RUSSELL IS A VETERAN REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, CO-FOUNDER OF CHECK MATE STRATEGIES, MOST RECENTLY WITH THE CIATTARELLI FOR GOVERNOR CAMPAIGN.

AND LEROY JONES IS A FOUNDING PARTNER OF 1868 PUBLIC AFFAIRS AND THE CHAIRMAN OF THE NEW JERSEY STATE DEMOCRATIC COMMITTEE.

BOTH HAVE BEEN WATCHING THE STATEHOUSE CLOSELY IN THIS TIME OF BOTH TRANSITION AND CONTINUITY.

CHRIS RUSSELL, LEROY JONES, WELCOME TO YOU BOTH.

GOOD TO SEE YOU GUYS.

>> HOW YOU DOING, CHRIS?

>> GOOD, LEROY.

>> SO I SAY IT'S A TIME OF CONTINUITY AND TRANSITION BECAUSE A LOT IS CHANGING IN THE LEGISLATURE WITH NEW LEADERSHIP WHILE THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH IS STAYING THE SAME.

LET'S START WITH THE GOVERNOR.

I ALSO WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE LEGISLATURE TOO.

CHRIS RUSSELL, LET'S START WITH YOU.

SHOCKER OF THE WEEK.

REPUBLICANS GAVE THE GOVERNOR A THUMBS DOWN ON HIS INAUGURAL SPEECH, NOT TO MENTION THE STATE OF THE STATE SPEECH A WEEK AGO OR SO.

WHAT SHOULD NEW JERSEY EXPECT UNDER PHIL MURPHY FOR THE NEXT FOUR YEARS?

>> LISTEN, I THINK THE THUMBS DOWN IN LARGE MEASURE IS BECAUSE HE EFFECTIVELY SAID HE WANTS TO CONTINUE THE POLICIES OF THE PAST FOUR YEARS.

AND THOSE POLICIES HAVE LED TO HIGHER PROPERTY TAXES.

EDUCATION IS MORE EXPENSIVE IN THE STATE.

WE'VE BEEN LOCKED -- YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD A STATE OF EMERGENCY AND EXECUTIVE ORDERS FOR THE BETTER PART OF TWO YEARS.

THE LEGISLATURE, I THINK, BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS WANT MORE OF A SAY FOR THE LEGISLATURE AND WANT MORE INPUT ON HOW THE STATE'S BEING GOVERNED.

I THINK RIGHT NOW GOVERNOR MURPHY'S REFUSE TOLAL TO GIVE TP IS A PROBLEM BOTH SIDES HAVE.

>> LEROY JONES, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET ANOTHER DEMOCRAT ELECTED GOVERNOR AFTER FOUR MORE YEARS LIKE THAT.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE PICTURE THAT CHRIS IS PAINTING?

>> WELL, CHRIS PAINTED THE PICTURE HE SHOULD PAINT FOR HIS PARTY.

LET'S BE FOR REAL.

I DIDN'T EXPECT, YOU KNOW, THE OPPOSITION PARTY TO THUMBS UP, YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNOR'S SPEECH.

YOU KNOW, THERE HAVE TO BE SOME MECHANISMS FOR RELEVANCE GOING FORWARD.

THE GOVERNOR TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, TEN-POINT POLICY PLAN, MANAGING THE PANDEMIC, WHICH IS CERTAINLY STILL BEFORE US, INCREASING SCHOOL FUNDING, MAKING A FULL PENSION PAYMENT, NEW GUN SAFETY PACKAGES, UNIVERSAL PRE-K, VACCINE AND BOOSTER DRIVES, SAME-DAY VOTER REGISTRATION.

I MEAN WE COULD GO ON AND ON.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE MESSAGE THAT WE'RE STARTING OFF THE YEAR WITH.

THAT'S THE AGENDA THAT WE'RE GOING TO MOVE FORWARD IN THE COMING MONTHS.

>> CHRIS, ALL GOOD THINGS THERE FROM LEROY JONES.

WHAT SAY YOU TO THAT?

DID THE GOVERNOR LOSE ALL THAT GOOD MOMENTUM BY MESSING UP THE REACTION AND THE RESPONSE TO THE PANDEMIC?

>> LISTEN, I THINK THE BIGGEST THING ABOUT THE PANDEMIC RIGHT NOW IS, LISTEN, SENATOR SCANLON SAID IT BEST.

IF SOMETHING IS AN EMERGENCY ALL THE TIME, IT'S REALLY NOT AN EMERGENCY ANYMORE.

IT'S THE STATUS QUO.

I THINK WE NEED TO START DEALING WITH THIS DIFFERENTLY, RIGHT?

LOOK AT WHAT THE IMPACT OF COVID AND THE SCHOOL SHUTDOWNS HAVE BEEN ON EDUCATION.

THE FIRST STATEWIDE SCORES FROM THE TESTS DONE SINCE THE PANDEMIC SHOW MASSIVE STRUGGLING BY OUR CHILDREN IN SCHOOLS ON MATH AND ON LITERACY.

EVEN WORSE AMONG BLACK AND HISPANIC STUDENTS.

THESE ARE THINGS THAT HAVE REAL IMPACT, AND THAT'S WHY THESE POLICIES ARE AFFECTING REAL PEOPLE.

THIS IS NOT JUST A REPUBLICAN/DEMOCRAT ISSUE, BUT IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT OUR SCHOOLS AND THE IMPACT ON EDUCATION AND WE HAVE A GOVERNOR WHO IS INSISTENT ON AN EXECUTIVE ORDER, KIND OF GOVERNMENT BY FIAT PLAN, THAT IS NOT THE WAY TO IMPROVE THESE THINGS.

IT'S ALSO NOT HELPED PROPERTY TAXES, THE COST OF EDUCATION.

LET'S FOCUS ON GETTING THE LEGISLATURE INVOLVED.

I THINK REPUBLICANS WINNING SO MANY SEATS LAST YEAR ON THE LEGISLATIVE LEVEL AND THE LOCAL LEVEL IS A MESSAGE THAT THE PEOPLE OF NEW JERSEY WANT TO SEE SOME CHANGE.

>> CHAIRMAN, THE PANDEMIC HAS REALLY DESTROYED THE -- LET'S JUST SAY THE EBB AND FLOW OF OUR EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS OR SO.

ISN'T CHRIS RIGHT THAT WE'RE LOSING, YOU KNOW, CLASS AFTER CLASS TO THIS PANDEMIC?

>> I MEAN CHRIS IS RIGHT.

THERE HAS BEEN A STRUGGLE, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT NO STATE, NO COMMUNITY HAS BEEN IMMUNE TO.

YOU KNOW, WE ARE STILL STRUGGLING WITH THE PANDEMIC.

THE FIGHT GOES ON.

WE'RE ERRING ON THE SIDE OF SCIENCE.

WE'RE TRYING TO PROTECT FAMILIES AND CHILDREN ALONG THE WAY.

THAT'S WHY, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE AN INCREASE IN SCHOOL FUNDING, TO TRY TO HELP CLOSE THOSE GAPS.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALSO GOING TO BE A STRONG EFFORT MADE TO CONTINUE ON AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE AND HIGHER EDUCATION, MAKING THAT MORE AFFORDABLE.

BUT ALSO WHAT CHRIS DIDN'T TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IS THE MESSAGING ON CONTAINING PROPERTY TAXES.

THAT'S A FOUNDATION OF THE GOVERNOR'S REMARK AT HIS STATE OF THE STATE AND HIS INAUGURATION.

>> THE ONE THING ON THAT, YOU CAN SAVE LIVES AND LIVELIHOODS AT THE SAME TIME.

YOU CAN KEEP AND PROTECT THE PUBLIC HEALTH AND ALSO NOT LET OUR STUDENTS GET SWEPT AWAY BY THIS PANDEMIC, A GENERATION OF THEM.

TWO OF THEM I HAVE IN SCHOOL NOW AS WELL, A SIXTH AND AN AIDEth GR -- EIGHTH GRADER.

THIS IS WHY I HOPE CHAIRMAN JONES WOULD AGREE PUT THIS UP FOR A VOTE.

LETTING THE LEGISLATURE HAVE A SAY ON LETTING THESE EXECUTIVE ORDERS CONTINUE ADD INFIN A ITEM.

I'M SURE THERE'S SOME DEMOCRATS THAT DON'T AGREE WITH THE WAY THIS IS HAPPENING IN THE LEGISLATURE.

>> I THINK THE GOVERNOR HAS RECEIVED HIGH MARKS DURING THE -- WITH HIS HANDLING ON THE PANDEMIC.

THAT'S BEEN CLEAR, YOU KNOW.

YOU KNOW W HE ALL KNOW THAT.

THE STRUGGLE CONTINUES NATIONWIDE.

NEW JERSEY'S NOT IMMUNE TO THAT.

YOU KNOW, I THINK WE JUST HAVE TO CONTINUE MOVING FORWARD.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A GOVERNOR THAT IS FOCUSED ON SCIENCE AND HIS HANDLING, INASMUCH AS IT DOESN'T ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, PREDICT AND PAINT A ROSY PICTURE, IT HAS BEEN ONE THAT IS STEEPED IN MAKING SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, YOUNG PEOPLE ARE SAFE AND THAT THEIR FAMILIES ARE HEALTHY.

>> CHRIS, THE REPUBLICANS HAVE INSTALLED A LEADERSHIP TEAM THAT IS ON THE CONSERVATIVE SIDE, LET'S SAY.

ARE THEY REFLECTING A CHANGE IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN NEW JERSEY?

>> LISTEN, SENATOR KAINE LEFT THE LEGISLATURE TO RUN FOR CONGRESS, AND NICK BROWN LEFT THE ASEM APPLY TO RUN FOR THE SENATE.

I THINK -- HAVE BOTH BEEN STRONG LEADERS IN THE STATE.

I THINK THE STATE PARTY IS ENERGIZED.

I THINK REPUBLICANS ARE ENERGIZED ABOUT AN ABILITY TO HAVE A BIGGER VOICE IN TRENTON FOLLOWING THE ELECTION, AGAIN ADDING THOSE SEATS, REALLY DOMINATING SOUTH JERSEY IN A WAY THAT HADN'T BEEN SEEN.

AND I THINK EVERYONE ON THIS ZOOM WOULD SAY THEY'D BE SURPRISED ABOUT SENATOR SWEENING LOSING.

REPUBLICANS HAVE A RESURGENT VOICE, AND I THIS INC.NK YOU'RE TO SEE THAT AMPLIFIED BY REPUBLICANS ACROSS THE STATE WHO WANT A BIGGER ROLE IN GOVERNING.

WHILE NOT ELECTING JACK CIATTARELLI, CERTAINLY GIVING GOVERNOR MURPHY A CLOSE CALL AND SAID WE WANT A VOICE.

>> BUT IS THAT ENERGY THAT THE PARTY IS FEELING, IS IT COMING FROM THE MIKE TESTAS OF THE PARTY, THE TRUMP END OF THE PARTY?

>> IT'S COMING FROM ALL ENDS OF THE PARTY.

LOOK AT TWO SENATORS FROM SOUTH JERSEY.

I DON'T THINK EITHER YOU'D CLASSIFY AS TRUMP REPUBLICANS NECESSARILY.

I THINK THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS GOT A BIG TENT AND A LOT OF IDEAS.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE AND I BELIEVE THAT THE PARTY HAS TO CONTINUE TO GROW.

WE WIN ELECTIONS BY ADDITION, NOT SUBTRACTION.

I THINK THE REPUBLICAN VOICE FROM ALL CORNERS SHOULD BE AMPLIFIED.

>> BUT EVEN SO, AND NOT TO BEAT A DEAD HORSE ON THIS ISSUE, BUT IN THE ASSEMBLY, ASSEMBLYWOMAN MUNOZ GOT PASSED OVER BECAUSE THE GENERAL CONSENSUS WAS THAT SHE WASN'T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH.

>> WHAT HAPPENS IN THE CAUCUS ROOM AND HOW THEY ELECT THEIR LEADERS IS UP TO THEM.

ULTIMATELY THAT'S HOW IT CAME OUT FOR US.

MY POINT IS THE PARTY FOR NEW JERSEY -- I THINK JACK PROVED THIS.

WE HAVE TO BE A PARTY THAT BROADENS OUR PERSPECTIVE.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO WIN BY PLAYING HARD TO THE RIGHT.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO WIN BY BEING TOO SQUISHY IN THE MIDDLE EITHER.

WE HAVE TO BE A PARTY THAT STANDS FOR SOMETHING AND EXPANDS ITS REACH.

>> CHAIRMAN, WOULD YOU PROBABLY AGREE THAT THE GOP NEEDS TO HAVE A BIGGER TENT.

ANY INDICATIONS THAT THEY'RE BUILDING AN EXTENSION TO THEIR REPUBLICAN TENT IN 2022?

>> UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T SEE THAT.

YOU KNOW, I'M SITTING HERE MARVELING AS CHRIS WAXES ON, YOU KNOW, JUST TRYING TO BLEND THE CONSERVATIVE END OF HIS PARTY.

I MEAN IT'S BEEN A STRUGGLE.

YOU KNOW, GOOD REPUBLICANS -- AND I DO KNOW THERE ARE GOOD REPUBLICANS OUT THERE LIKE JON BRAMNICK, LIKE NANCY MUNOZ, THAT HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, PARTICULARLY NANCY MUNOZ WHO HAVE BEEN SUT DOWN BY THE CONSERVATIVE SIDE OF THE PARTY.

THAT'S GOING TO BE A STRUGGLE FROM WITHIN THAT LITTLE TENT, AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO WATCH THAT PLAY OUT.

AS WE CONTINUE THESE DIALOGUES GOING FORWARD, I THINK CHRIS IS GOING TO PROBABLY HAVE TO TWEAK HIS PLAYBOOK A LITTLE BIT TO CONQUER THOSE ISSUES THAT EXIST THERE.

>> I THINK -- WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, OF COURSE, YOU LOOK AT YOUR PARTY.

THERE ARE CERTAIN MEMBERS OF THE -- >> I KNEW YOU WERE GOING TO SAY THAT.

>> THE DEMOCRAT PARTY HAS GONE TOO FAR LEFT.

IT'S GOTTEN TOO EXTREME.

THAT WAS -- WIPED PEOPLE OUT.

I THINK IT WILL PIPE MORE OUT IF THAT CONTINUES.

IF YOU WANT TO GO DOWN THAT PATH, SIR, KEEP HEADING DOWN THAT PATH.

>> KEEP COMING BECAUSE YOU KNOW I'M GOING TO WALK WITH YOU, AND I'M GOING TO WALK WITH YOU ON THIS ONE.

YOU KNOW, THAT WAS A ONCE IN A LIFETIME, YOU KNOW, PHENOMENON THAT OCCURRED DURING THIS PAST ELECTION.

THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE DYSFUNCTION THAT CAME OUT OF WASHINGTON, YOU KNOW, AND I THINK YOU KNOW THAT.

YOU KNOW, THAT ERA -- THAT AREA OF THE STATE, YOU KNOW, IS A TRUMP WORSHIPPING AREA OF THE STATE, AND ALL THAT KIND OF CULMINATED INTO THOSE WINS THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY ENJOYED FOR THAT BRIEF MOMENT IN TIME.

>> THE REALITY IS -- >> 2023 IS COMING AND WE WILL BE WRITING A NEW STORY IN THIS ONGOING SAGA.

>> THE 2nd AND 8th DISTRICTS WERE NOT TRUMP DISTRICTS.

THEY WERE DISTRICTS JOE BIDEN WON AND DEMOCRATS WERE REJECTED.

>> I DO GO BACK AND REMIND YOU THAT DYSFUNCTIONALISM IN WASHINGTON, WHICH OCCURS IN -- AND I HAVE TO ADMIT ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE, YOU KNOW, CAUSE FRUSTRATION UP AND DOWN THIS STATE.

THAT WAS A BY-PRODUCT OF THAT FRUSTRATION.

>> ON THAT WE CAN AGREE.

>> CHAIRMAN, WE TALK ABOUT AFFORDABILITY AND KITCHEN TABLE ISSUES.

WE'RE HEARING ABOUT THAT AND HOW THAT'S THE MESSAGE FROM VOTERS.

BUT IS THAT JUST CODE LANGUAGE FOR MORE ISSUES CLOSE TO WHITE SUBURBANITES AND FEWER ISSUES CLOSER TO BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE IN THE CITIES?

>> NO, NO, NO.

I MEAN THOSE ARE -- YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE VERY REAL CONVERSATIONS THAT HAVE TO OCCUR, DAVID.

YOU KNOW, I MEAN SOME OF THE MESSAGING -- AND YOU COULD SEE THAT THROUGH THE POLLING, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS A LITTLE BIT OFF ON OUR SIDE.

NOBODY'S GOING TO RUN AWAY FROM THAT.

THAT'S REAL, YOU KNOW.

BUT WE DO HAVE TO GET BACK TO, YOU KNOW, JUST GRASSROOTS CONVERSATIONS UP AND DOWN THE STATES REGARDLESS OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOUR ETHNICITY IS, YOU KNOW, OR WHAT YOUR SOCIOINCOME STATUS IS.

IT IS, YOU KNOW, A REAL CONCERN TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS AND, YOU KNOW, TO MOVE FORWARD WITH, YOU KNOW, PLAUSIBLE AND MEANINGFUL INPUT FROM, YOU KNOW, VOTERS THAT WE ALL WANT TO MAKE SURE ARE REPRESENTED PROPERLY.

>> CHRIS, WE JUST HAD A DISCUSSION ABOUT REDISTRICTING WITH HENNEL PATEL.

REPUBLICANS OBJECTED TO THE NEW CONGRESSIONAL MAP.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THEM?

THE MAPS, I MEAN.

>> THE NEW CONGRESSIONAL MAP WAS AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE THESE RACES NON-COMPETITIVE.

JUDGE WALLACE'S REASONING WAS INSULTING FRANKLY, AND I KNOW HE'S NOW TRIED TO WALK IT BACK.

BUT THE REALITY IS YOU TOOK VERY COMPETITIVE DISTRICTS FROM THE LAST MAP WHERE THE MAP WAS FRANKLY RESPONSIVE TO THE POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT.

WHEN REPUBLICANS STRUGGLED NATIONALLY IN 2018, THE MAP HERE REWARDED DEMOCRATS.

THAT SAME MAP IN 2022 WOULD HAVE REWARDED REPUBLICANS GIVEN THE VERY DYSFUNCTION THAT LEROY IS TALKING ABOUT ON HIS PARTY'S SIDE NOW.

INSTEAD, WHAT THE NEW MAP DOES IS MAKE THOSE DISTRICTS LIKE 3, 5, AND 11 MUCH MORE DEMOCRATIC.

THEY'RE STILL WINNABLE FOR REPUBLICANS.

JACK CIATTARELLI WAS VERY COMPETITIVE IN ALL THREE OF THEM, BUT THEY'RE MORE CHALLENGING.

I THINK PERSONALLY THIS IS NOT A REPUBLICAN/DEMOCRAT THING.

I THINK WE'D BE BETTER OFF HAVING MORE COMPETITIVE RACES, MORE COMPETITIVE FIGHTS.

IT LEADS TO ETBETTER CANDIDATES.

THIS MAP IS A DISSERVICE.

IT TRIES TO LOCK IN A 9-3 MAJORITY, MAYBE 10-2 FOR DEMOCRATS AND THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS STATE IS RIGHT NOW.

>> CHAIRMAN, YOU LIKE THIS MAP.

>> YEP, I LIKE THE MAP.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LET ME LEAVE IT RIGHT THERE.

REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST CHRIS RUSSELL AND LEROY JONES, THANKS FOR COMING ON WITH US.

>> TAKE CARE, CHRIS.

>> YOU TOO, LEROY.

>> THAT'S "CHAT BOX" FOR THIS WEEK.

THANKS ALSO TO HENLE PATEL.

YOU CAN FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER TW @DAVIDCRUZ.

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

FOR THE ENTIRE CREW OVER HERE, THANKS FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

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