PARIS: WELCOME TO GBH NEWS ROOTED "ROOTED."

BLACK WOMEN EARN EIGHT CENTS FOR EVERY DOLLAR HELD BY WHITE MEN, BUT EVERYTHING FROM BEAUTY STANDARDS AND MOTHERHOOD TO THE WORKPLACE IS COSTING MORE.

IN HER NEW BOOK "THE DOUBLE TAX ," AUTHOR AND ECONOMIST ANNA REVEALS HOW RACISM AND SEXISM COMBINED TO CREATE A COMPOUNDED BURDEN THAT WOMEN OF COLOR PAY EVERY SINGLE DAY.

TELUS, WHAT IS THE DOUBLE TAX?

ANNA: I'M GLAD YOU ASKED.

THE DOUBLE TAX IS THE COMPOUNDED COST OF RACISM AND SEXISM.

A LOT OF TIMES WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT GENDER INEQUALITY, THEY TALK ABOUT ONE LENS OF INEQUALITY, GENDER.

WHAT THE DOUBLE TAX ULTIMATELY CHALLENGES IS IT SAYS YOU CAN'T REALLY ACHIEVE GENDER EQUALITY WITHOUT ADDRESSING GENDER INEQUALITY AND CLASS INEQUALITY.

BRINGING THIS INTERSECTIONAL NATURE OF HOW WE UNDERSTAND ALL DOUBLE AXES OF OPPRESSION BRINGS US CLOSER TO ACTUALLY ADDRESSING THE ROOT -- NO PUN INTENDED -- OF WHAT'S GOING ON.

PARIS: A LITTLE NAME DROP.

ANNA: SO THAT'S ESSENTIALLY WHAT IT IS.

PARIS: SOMETIMES IT'S HARD FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THIS WITHOUT HARD EXAMPLES.

I'M GOING TO PULL ONE FROM YOUR BOOK.

YOU WRITE THAT THE AVERAGE WOMAN SPENDS $3756 PER YEAR ON BEAUTY MAINTENANCE WHILE MEN SPEND $2928.

YOU GO ON TO EXPLAIN HOW FOR WHITE WOMEN, THERE IS THE PINK TAX.

THAT'S ILLUSTRATED THERE.

THEN YOU DIG DEEPER AND EXPLAIN HOW BLACK WOMEN ARE PAYING EVEN MORE THAN THAT ALMOST $4000 PER YEAR.

YOU HAVE BEAUTIFUL BRAIDS.

ANNA: AS DO YOU.

PARIS: THANK YOU.

BUT WE KNOW THIS ISN'T CHEAP NECESSARILY.

THIS WAS $250.

ANNA: THAT'S ON THE CHEAPER END.

THIS WAS $400.

PARIS: EXACTLY.

HAVING TO MAINTAIN AND DO THESE THINGS IS THE DOUBLE TAX.

ANNA: EXACTLY RIGHT.

THIS IDEA THAT WOMEN ARE PAYING MORE TO LIVE.

THIS IS A CONVERSATION WE NEED TO HAVE NATIONWIDE BECAUSE THE COST THAT WOMEN ARE DEALING WITH -- THE INDIVIDUAL COST THAT WOMEN DEAL WITH TODAY WILL BECOME SOCIETAL COST FOR EVERYONE ELSE TOMORROW.

WHAT I DIG INTO WITH THE DOUBLE TAX IS I SAY IT'S NOT WOMEN IN GENERAL, MORE TO SPEAK.

I THINK IT'S MORE ABOUT THINKING ABOUT THE WOMEN WE TEND TO FORGET, THE VULNERABLE, THE MARGINALIZED.

POOR WOMEN, BLACK WOMEN.

THESE ARE WOMEN THAT ARE BEARING COSTS JUST TO GET THROUGH THEIR DAILY LIVES.

YOU BROUGHT UP HAIR AND BEAUTY.

I REMEMBER WRITING THIS CHAPTER BECAUSE IT WAS THE FIRST I WROTE.

IT WAS INSPIRED BY A CONVERSATION I HAD WITH SEVEN HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS FROM MY COUNTY.

SEVEN BLACK GIRLS WILLING TO TALK TO ME ABOUT SOME COSTS THEY WERE DEALING WITH NAVIGATING HIGH SCHOOL.

I THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO TALK ABOUT IT'S HARD TO FIND MAKEUP PRODUCTS, CLOTHING PRODUCTS, THINGS ASSOCIATED WITH THE PINK TAX.

WHAT WAS INTERESTING, WHEN I WAS SPEAKING TO THESE GIRLS, IS THEY WERE SAYING HAIR.

HAIR IS A HUGE COST FOR US TO THINK THROUGH.

I SAID, OK, I KNOW THIS IS A HUGE COST FOR ME.

MY SISTER AND I TALKED ABOUT IT, MY MOM TALKED TO MY SISTER ABOUT IT.

WHY IS IT STILL A COST FOR YOUNG BLACK GIRLS IN 2025?

A LOT OF THEM WERE SAYING WE HAVE TO SPEND UPWARDS OF $300, $400 A COUPLE TIMES A YEAR.

I DON'T KNOW IF FOLKS KNOW THIS, BUT THERE IS A $.20 DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PRODUCTS THAT ARE -- LEADING HAIR PRODUCTS FOR STRAIGHT HAIR AND OILY HAIR -- COILY HAIR.

PER OUNCE, $.20 MORE.

A DIFFERENCE IN CENTS CAN BECOME A DIFFERENCE IN DOLLARS THAT CAN BECOME THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OVER A LIFETIME JUST TO MAINTAIN YOUR SHAMPOO AND CONDITIONER UPKEEP.

THIS IS NOT INCLUDING THE FACT THAT WE KNOW BLACK HAIR GOES TO OTHER STRESSORS.

THAT'S WHAT WE KNOW FROM THE RESEARCH.

BLACK WOMEN AND WOMEN OF COLOR MORE BROADLY ARE HAVING TO SPEND MORE JUST TO UPKEEP BEAUTY ON TOP OF HAVING TO SATISFY BEAUTY STANDARDS THAT ARE NOT EVEN ANCHORED ON US TO BEGIN WITH.

PARIS: IT REMINDS ME OF THE CONVERSATION WE HAD HERE ON GBH NEWS ROOTED "ROOTED" A FEW MONTHS AGO WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT THE STUDY THAT CARCINOGENS USE AS A REGULAR STAPLE.

THEN THERE IS ADDED PRESSURE OF, IS THIS EVEN SAFE TO BE USING?

ANNA: THAT'S RIGHT.

I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING THINGS ABOUT THE DOUBLE TAX AS IT PERTAINS TO BEAUTY.

FOR WOMEN TRYING TO ACHIEVE THE BEAUTY STANDARD, IT'S THE PINK TAX, AND MORE AT TIMES.

FOR BLACK WOMEN, WE ARE OFTEN POTENTIALLY PAYING THE DOUBLE TAX WITH OUR LIVES.

THIS IDEA OF GETTING PERMS FROM A YOUNG AGE THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH CARCINOGENS, USING BRAIDING HAIR ASSOCIATED WITH CARCINOGENS.

THERE IS A PRICE WE ARE PAYING TO SATISFY A BEAUTY STANDARD THAT ISN'T KEEPING US IN MIND, AND WE STILL MIGHT GET PUNISHED FOR OUR ATTEMPTS TO DO SO.

WE STILL SEE BLACK GIRLS GETTING PUNISHED FOR THE KINDS OF BRAIDS THEY HAVE IN SCHOOL.

WE SEE FOLKS BEING DEEMED UNPROFESSIONAL FOR ROCKING LOCS.

EVEN IF WE ARE ATTEMPTING TO FIT OURSELVES INTO THIS BOX, IT'S NOT A GUARANTEE THE DOUBLE TAX WON'T SHOW UP.

PARIS: TELL ME ABOUT PLACES OUTSIDE OF BEAUTY WHERE THIS SHOWS UP.

ANNA: THE WAY THIS BOOK IS STRUCTURED IS I WAS THINKING A LOT ABOUT HOW WE MAKE SOMETHING LIKE THE DOUBLE TAX, SOMETHING THAT'S QUANTITATIVE, REALLY DIGESTIBLE FOR THE EVERYDAY, AVERAGE PERSON ON THE STREET I THOUGHT TO MYSELF, THE WAY WE SHOULD STRUCTURE IT IS THINKING ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE DEAL WITH IN THEIR EVERYDAY LIVES.

KEY MOMENTS.

BEAUTY IS LIKE THE FIRST MIRROR.

THE FIRST TIME YOU DEAL WITH BEAUTY STANDARDS.

THEN YOU THINK ABOUT PAYCHEX.

YOUR FIRST CAREER CHOICE, YOUR FIRST PROMOTION.

FOR ME, THE CHAPTER THAT REALLY MADE A HUGE DIFFERENCE WAS THE CHAPTER ABOUT MOTHERHOOD.

I'M NOT A MOTHER, YET, I THINK.

PARIS: MEDIATOR -- MEAN NEITHER.

BUT A MOTHER.

ANNA: EXACTLY, I APPRECIATE THAT.

CLOCK IT.

THAT CHAPTER, THAT COMES RIGHT AFTER THE HOMEOWNERSHIP CHAPTER, CHANGED MY BRAIN CHEMISTRY.

BASELINE, I DON'T THINK FOLKS ARE HAVING AN HONEST CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT MOTHERHOOD COSTS.

YOU HAVE PEOPLE TALK ABOUT, MORE WOMEN HAVE TO HAVE BABIES, MORE WOMEN HAVE TO BECOME MOTHERS.

AND THEY ARE NOT REALLY GETTING INTO WHAT WOMEN HAVE TO GIVE UP TO CHOOSE MOTHERHOOD.

AND WHAT PEOPLE ARE NOT REALLY BEING HONEST ABOUT IS THAT WOMEN WHO CHOOSE MOTHERHOOD ARE PUNISHED AND WOMEN WHO DON'T CHOOSE MOTHERHOOD ARE ALSO PUNISHED.

YOU ARE PUNISHED IN A SOCIAL STIGMA WAY.

BUT THE COSTS AROUND MOTHERHOOD ARE INTERESTING BECAUSE YOU HAVE CHILDCARE, CHILDBIRTH, CHILD REARING.

PARIS: YOU OFTEN PAY A PHYSICAL TAX, SOMETIMES EVEN HIGHER, WITH CHILDBIRTH.

ANNA: EXACTLY.

YOUR BODY IS LITERALLY BEING TAXED AND YOUR POCKETBOOKS ARE BEING TAXED.

THE GAG OF THE MATTER IS, WHEN YOU LOOK AT HOW MUCH CHILDCARE COSTS -- TALKING $15,000 TO OVER $20,000 PER YEAR ON AVERAGE -- NOW TAKE THAT AS A SHARE OF A BLACK FAMILY'S INCOME AND A WHITE FAMILY'S INCOME.

WHO IS GETTING BURNED INTO MORE?

GRANTED -- WHO IS GETTING BURDENED MORE?

GRANTED, THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS PEOPLE ARE MEETING THE CHILDCARE NEED, BUT THE REALITY IS WE ARE NOT GIVING MOTHERS PAID FAMILY LEAVE.

SO FOLKS HAVE TO GO BACK TO WORK AND MAKE A LIVING.

THEIR KIDS HAVE TO BE TAKEN CARE OF BY SOMEBODY.

IF THEY DON'T HAVE FAMILY NEARBY OR DON'T HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH THEIR FAMILY, THEY HAVE TO DO CHILDCARE.

ONE THING I LEARNED WAS I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WAS SUCH THING AS NEWBORN CARE.

PARIS: WHAT IS THAT?

ANNA: IT MEANS RIGHT AFTER YOU HAVE A BABY, IF YOU CAN'T TAKE CARE OF THE BABY, YOU PUT THEM IN A DAYCARE AT LIKE 3, 4, 5 WEEKS.

PARIS: PROBABLY A REALITY FOR MANY PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE PAID TIME OFF FOR FAMILY.

ANNA: EXACTLY.

THE DOUBLE TAX SHOWS UP IN THE AMOUNT OF MONEY BEING TAKEN FROM WOMEN, ESPECIALLY BLACK WOMEN WHO TEND TO BE WORSE OFF FINANCIALLY.

THE OTHER ASPECT IS BLACK MOTHERS ARE NAVIGATING THE STIGMA OF BEING SEEN AS BAD MOTHERS.

THIS IS THE WELFARE QUEEN STEREOTYPE.

THIS IS SORT OF RACIAL STEREOTYPES COMING INTO PLAY.

YOU ARE NOT JUST NAVIGATING THE COST OF TRYING TO BE A MOM AND SHOW UP FOR YOUR KIDS, YOU ARE ALSO TRYING TO NAVIGATE THE SOCIAL COST.

WHAT HAPPENS IF I DON'T LOOK LIKE A GOOD ENOUGH MOM?

PARIS: WE WILL BE RIGHT BACK AFTER A BRIEF WORD FROM OUR SPONSORS.

PARIS: I AM PARIS ALSTON, HOST OF GBH NEWS "ROOTED, AND I AM HONORED TO PRESENT THE SHORT LIST FOR THIS YEAR'S MUSEUM OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY BOOK AWARD.

THIS ANNUAL PRIZE, GENEROUSLY SUPPORTED BY THE JAMES M AND KATHLEEN D STONE FOUNDATION RECOGNIZES THE BEST IN NEW LITERARY ADULT NONFICTION WORK IN THE FIELD OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY AND CULTURE.

THESE 12 BOOKS WERE CHOSEN FROM 141 SUBMISSIONS.

AND THE NOMINEES ARE -- THE CONTAINMENT: DETROIT, THE SUPREME COURT, AND THE BATTLE FOR RACIAL JUSTICE IN THE NORTH.

AUTHORED BY MICHELLE ADAMS.

HUMANS IN SHACKLES: AN ATLANTIC HISTORY OF SLAVERY.

BY ANNA LUSIA ARAJO, GRASSROOTS DEMOCRACY: MAROON ECOLOGY IS AND JAZZ ECONOMICS.

BY BENJAMIN BERSON.

RED STAINED: THE LIFE OF HILDA SIMS.

BY JAKAYDO JOJO BELL.

LOVE RITA.

BY BRIDGET M. DAVIS.

AN EFFICIENT WOMANHOOD: WOMEN AND THE MAKING OF THE UNIVERSAL IMPROVEMENT ASSOCIATION.

I NATANYA DUNCAN.

JOHN LEWIS: A LIFE.

BY DAVID GREENBERG.

DISMANTLING THE MASTER'S CLOCK: ON RACE, SPACE, AND TIME.

BY RASHIDA PHILLIPS.

KING OF THE NORTH: MLK'S LIFE OF STRUGGLE OUTSIDE THE SOUTH.

AUTHORED BY JEAN THEO HARRIS.

BUILDING THE BLACK CITY: THE TRANSFORMATION OF AMERICAN LIFE.

BY JILL WILLIAM TROTTER JUNIOR.

ANOTHER WORD FOR LOVE: A MEMOIR.

AUTHORED BY CARVELL WALLACE.

AND FINALLY, BELONGING: AN INTO -- INTIMATE HISTORY OF SLAVERY AND FAMILY IN EARLY NEW ENGLAND.

AUTHORED BY GLORIA WHITING.

JOIN US FOR THIS YEAR'S CEREMONY OCTOBER 9 AT THE AFRICAN MEETINGHOUSE OF BOSTON, HOSTED BY OUR VERY OWN CALLIE CROSSLEY.

VISIT MAAHSTONEBOOKAWARD.COM TO LEARN MORE.

PARIS: WE ARE DEALING WITH A HUGE SHIFT IN THE LABOR MARKET AS A RESULT OF THE CUTS FROM DOGE, ESPECIALLY THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE.

BLACK WOMEN, ACCORDING TO EPI, MAKE UP 9.2% OF THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE AS OF 2023.

NOW THEY HAVE BEEN SUBJECT TO A NUMBER OF LAYOFFS, AS MANY IN THE COUNTRY HAVE.

IT'S RESULTED IN A NEARLY 6% RISE IN THE NUMBER OF BLACK WOMEN WHO ARE UNEMPLOYED BECAUSE THEY DISPROPORTIONATELY MAKE UP THIS WORKFORCE.

WHAT DOES IT SAY THAT BLACK WOMEN, WHO ALSO HAPPEN TO BE THE MOST EDUCATED BUT ALSO HAVE THE HIGHEST AMOUNT OF STUDENT LOAN DEBT -- WHAT DOES IT SAY THAT YOU WORK SO HARD, YOU DO ALL THE THINGS TO TRY TO CHECK ALL THE BOXES, BUT THEN YOU ALSO ARE THE ONE WHO COULD BE THE FIRST OUT THE DOOR IF AND WHEN THE MOMENT ARISES?

ANNA: YES.

LET ME CLARIFY SOME THINGS FOR LISTENERS.

THE FIRST THING IS WE HAVE SEEN A FULL PERCENTAGE POINT INCREASE SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR FOR BLACK WOMEN IN UNEMPLOYMENT.

WE HAVE NOT SEEN THAT FOR OTHER GROUPS.

THIS IS THE CONCERNING TREND IN THE DATA.

TO YOUR POINT, BLACK WOMEN ARE OVERREPRESENTED IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, AND THAT'S NOT A BAD THING.

IT JUST MEANS IF THERE IS SOMEONE TARGETING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, BECAUSE OF THE DOUBLE TAX, BLACK WOMEN ARE LIKELY TO SUFFER THE JOB LOSSES FIRST.

THE WAY THAT SHOWS UP, THE DOUBLE TAX SHOWS UP IN THE CAREER TOY -- CAREER CHOICE AND THE CAREER PATH.

CAREER CHOICE IS SOMETHING CALLED OCCUPATIONAL SEGREGATION.

SIMPLY PUT, YOU ARE STEERED TOWARD CERTAIN TYPES OF CAREERS BECAUSE OTHER TYPES DON'T WANT YOU IN THOSE SPACES.

ONE OF THE MOST STAGGERING STATISTICS I CAME ACROSS LOOKING AT THE DATA -- THIS IS IN THE TOKEN CHAPTER, TALKING ABOUT REPRESENTATION.

AMONG THE TOP 10 HIGHEST-PAID CAREERS, FOLKS WHO ARE MAKING BEAUCOUP MONEY, WHITE MEN HAVE OVERREPRESENTATION IN ALL 10.

AT LEAST 50%.

THEY ARE MAKING IT UP.

THEY ARE GETTING THEIR MONEY.

THE NEXT LARGEST GROUP IS WHITE MAN -- WHITE WOMEN.

BUT THEY ARE ONLY GETTING THEIR REPRESENTATION IN THREE OF THOSE TYPES OF CAREERS.

BLACK WOMEN, LATINO WOMEN, NATIVE WOMEN, BLACK MEN, LATINO MEN -- COMPLETELY, SEVERELY UNDERREPRESENTED.

IF YOU GO TO THE LOWEST PAID CAREERS, AND THIS IS ACCORDING TO THE CENTER OF AMERICAN PROGRESS, EIGHT OUT OF THE 10 CAREERS IN THAT GROUP, BLACK WOMEN HAVE PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION.

THEY HAVE NATIONWIDE REPRESENTATION.

MEANING IT'S ABOUT AS MUCH AS THE NATIONWIDE SHARE THAT WE MAKE UP RIGHT NOW.

WHAT DOES THAT SAY?

IT SAYS THAT BLACK WOMEN ARE PUSHED TOWARDS LOW-WAGE, LOW BENEFITS, AND ARGUABLY LOW VALUE WORK.

DESPITE WHAT YOU JUST SAID, WHERE WE HAVE TO BE OVEREDUCATED OR EVEN EDUCATE OURSELVES TO A CERTAIN POINT SO WE ARE SIGNALING TO THE LABOR MARKET WE ARE SERIOUS ABOUT THE THINGS WE WANT TO DO.

PARIS: WHAT ARE SOME OF THE TOP FEW -- ANNA: SOME OF THE TOP AIDE CAREERS, PHYSICIANS, ENGINEERS, COMPUTER SCIENCE AND TECH.

OUR PAID CAREERS, CHILDCARE, EDUCATION IN CERTAIN SPACES.

WE WERE THINKING ABOUT FOLKS WHO SERVE YOU AT THE MOVIE THEATER.

THAT WAS THE ONLY PLACE WHERE MEN HAD A HIGHER REPRESENTATION THAN WOMEN.

BUT ULTIMATELY, THE FACT THAT BLACK WOMEN TEND TO BE IN THOSE TYPES OF CAREERS -- NOT BY CHOICE REALLY.

A LOT OF TIMES WE ARE OVERQUALIFIED FOR THE JOBS WE DO.

BUT BECAUSE OF SOCIETAL CIRCUMSTANCE.

THAT MEANS WHEN WE ADD THE NEXT DOUBLE TAX, THE TAX IN CAREER PATH, YOU RUN INTO A SITUATION WHERE 300,000 BLACK WOMEN ARE EXITING.

THE DOUBLE TAX SHOWS UP IN CAREER PATH IN THE SENSE THAT BLACK WOMEN ARE THE MOST LIKELY GROUP TO BE TURNING OVER AT A HIGHER RATE AND ARE THE LEAST LIKELY GROUP TO BE PROMOTED.

THIS IS WHAT WE KNOW FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR DATA.

ULTIMATELY, WHAT THAT MEANS IS IF WE PROJECT IT ONTO THE REST OF THE LABOR MARKET, FOR LAST IN, FIRST OUT.

WE ARE NOT GETTING PROMOTED, SO WE DON'T HAVE POWER WITHIN THE WORKPLACE.

AND PEOPLE ARE NOT VALUING OUR WORK BECAUSE OF HOW MUCH THEY ARE PAYING US AND WHAT THEY SEE AS.

PART OF THE JOB MARKET, HOW WE CONTRIBUTE.

THAT MEANS WHEN THERE IS AN ECONOMIC CRISIS, WE ARE HIT FIRST AND HARDEST.

A LOT OF PEOPLE TEND TO IGNORE WHAT HAPPENS TO BLACK WOMEN BECAUSE WE ARE ONLY LIKE 7% OF THE POPULATION.

WHAT I HAVE SEEN, FROM MY LIMITED TRAINING -- PARIS: WHAT DO YOU MEAN LIMITED?

GIRL -- ANNA: IS THAT TYPICALLY WHEN BLACK WOMEN ARE GOING THROUGH AN ECONOMIC CRISIS, SOMETHING IS COMING FOR THE REST OF US.

THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT.

THEY WANT TO SAY IT'S HAPPENING TO THAT SMALL GROUP, NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF WHAT'S TAKING PLACE.

THE REALITY IS WE WOULD ALL BE TALKING ABOUT 300,000 WHITE MEN LEAVING THE LABOR FORCE IN THREE MONTHS.

PARIS: WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS MOMENT IS SPELLING OUT FOR WHAT'S COMING FOR THE REST OF AMERICAN SOCIETY?

ANNA: I FEEL LIKE -- THERE'S A LOT OF ECONOMISTS WHO WOULD SAY, DON'T WORRY, THE ECONOMY IS FINE, UNEMPLOYMENT IS LOW.

ECONOMIC GROWTH IS NOT SLOWING.

BUT THE RECENT JOBS REPORT THAT LED TO THE FIRING OF THE BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS COMMISSIONER SHOWED THAT 73,000 JOBS WERE ADDED IN JULY.

THAT'S BELOW THE BREAKEVEN POINT THAT IS AROUND 86,000.

THE BREAKEVEN POINT, ANYTHING ABOVE THAT SIGNALS WE ARE IN A STRONG ECONOMY.

I WOULD SAY BACK IN 2008, ECONOMISTS SAID SOMETHING IS GOING ON WITH THE BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITY.

WE ARE SEEING A LOT OF FORECLOSURES, DEFAULTS.

FOLKS DIDN'T PAY ATTENTION AND THEN THE 2008 FINANCIAL CRISIS ARRIVED.

DURING 2020, BLACK WOMEN'S UNEMPLOYMENT SHOOTS UP TO 20%, SECOND HIGHEST AFTER LATINAS, THEN SUDDENLY PEOPLE START LOSING.

THEIR JOBS.

I THINK WE SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE MARGINALIZED.

PARIS: IT MAKES ME WONDER IF THERE ARE WAYS THAT EMPLOYERS -- BECAUSE SOMETIMES THESE THINGS HAPPEN AS THE RESULT OF FORCES THAT ARE OUT OF THE ORGANIZATION'S CONTROL.

I AM WONDERING HOW EMPLOYERS CAN BETTER SET UP BLACK WOMEN FOR SUCCESS.

YOU MENTIONED LACK WOMEN ARE OFTEN PENALIZED IN SALARY NEGOTIATIONS.

THERE IS ALWAYS THE ADVICE THAT YOUR BEST CHANCE OF GETTING THE HIGHEST NUMBER IS WHEN THEY ARE TRYING TO HIRE YOU BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN THEY WANT YOU THE MOST.

ARE THERE OTHER THINGS EMPLOYERS CAN DO TO MAKE SURE EVEN IN THE EVENT THEY BLACK WOMAN IS GETTING LAID OFF, THEY CAN STILL SET HER UP TO BE IN DECENT STANDING SO SHE IS NOT SUFFERING THE MOST SHE WOULD IF THEY HADN'T SUPPORTED HER?

ANNA: LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU SAID AROUND SALARY NEGOTIATION.

IF YOU START ME OFF AT A SALARY THAT IS A LIVING WAGE, IDEALLY ABOVE, WHEN I GET MY UNEMPLOYMENT CHECK, WHICH WILL BE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF THAT, DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU STARTED ME, I WILL BE BETTER OFF.

IF IT'S HIGHER, I'M GETTING A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE.

I WILL BE BETTER OFF THAN IF IT WAS LOWER.

I THINK ALSO WHEN EMPLOYERS ARE LAYING OFF EMPLOYEES, THE QUESTION IS WHAT MECHANISM ARE YOU DOING THAT?

ARE YOU LETTING PEOPLE GO AND NOT GIVING THEM SEVERANCE?

DOES THE JOB YOU HIRED THEM FOR EVEN HAVE BENEFITS TO BEGIN WITH?

HOW LONG ARE YOU ALLOWING THOSE BENEFITS TO CONTINUE EVEN AFTER THEY HAVE LEFT?

I FEEL LIKE IF EMPLOYERS ARE TRYING TO THINK ABOUT HOW YOU SET BLACK WOMEN UP FOR GREATNESS EVEN AFTER YOU HAVE LET THEM GO, IT IS A FUNCTION OF HOW YOU SET THEM UP FOR GREATNESS WHEN YOU HIRED THEM AND THE CONDITIONS IN WHICH YOU ARE HIRING THEM.

A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE LIKE TO BE REACTIVE, BUT YOU CAN BE PROACTIVE.

THAT MEANS UNDERSTANDING HOW THE DOUBLE TAX SHOWS UP WHEN THE BLACK WOMAN ARRIVES AT YOUR DOOR AND MAKING SURE SHE IS TAKEN CARE OF THE MOMENT SHE GETS HERE SO IF YOU HAVE TO LET HER GO, SHE IS NOT IN A WORSE POSITION THEN WHEN SHE ENTERED.

PARIS: EITHER ANYWAYS BLACK WOMEN CAN PROTECT THEMSELVES AGAINST THE DOUBLE TAX?

ANNA: THIS IS SUCH A GREAT QUESTION.

IT'S HARD TO ANSWER BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES -- THIS MIGHT SOUND LIKE I AM AVOIDING ACCOUNTABILITY.

IT'S NOT REALLY OUR FAULT.

THESE ARE SOCIETAL FORCES MOVING AGAINST US AND I WOULD SAY MOVING AGAINST A LOT OF WOMEN OF COLOR.

LATINOS AND ASIAN WOMEN, NATIVE WOMEN ARE EXPERIENCING THE DOUBLE TAX.

I WOULD EVEN ARGUE POOR WHITE WOMEN ARE EXPERIENCING THE DOUBLE TAX.

THEY MIGHT NOT BE A RACIAL MINORITY, BUT THERE ARE CLASS DYNAMICS THAT MEET IF THEY HAVE TO INCUR THE COST OF CHILDCARE, THEY ARE WORSE OFF.

I WOULD SAY TRANSPARENCY HERE IS KEY.

A LOT OF TIMES WE DON'T HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE COST THAT WOMEN FACE.

IT DIDN'T OCCUR TO ME UNTIL AFTER I HAD WRITTEN THE BOOK.

YOU WRITE A BOOK, YOU READ IT AS AN EDITOR AND A READER, I DON'T THINK PEOPLE ARE HAVING A NATIONWIDE CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW EXPENSIVE IT IS TO BE A WOMAN IN AMERICA.

PARIS: YOU ALSO ADVOCATE FOR BOLD POLICIES LIKE REPARATIONS, PAID FAMILY LEAVE, INVESTMENTS IN PUBLIC CHILDCARE.

DO YOU THINK THE EEOC IS DOING ENOUGH TO ENSURE THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING?

IS THAT HARDER TO ENSURE NOW?

ANNA: I WOULD SAY IT IS HARDER.

YOU HAVE A FORCE IN OFFICE THAT IS ANTI-EQUALITY, DESPITE THE CLAIM.

A LOT OF FOLKS WHO ARE MERIT WARRIORS, YOU WILL FIND OUT THEY HAVE NOT EARNED ANYTHING IN THEIR LIFE.

I THINK THE EEOC IS DOING THE BEST IT CAN.

IT COULD BE DOING BETTER FOR SURE.

WE ARE SEEING AN UPTICK IN HARM BEING DONE TO MARGINALIZED COMMUNITIES.

ENTITIES LIKE THE EEOC AND GRASSROOTS ORGANIZATIONS AND FEDERAL AND LOCAL ENTITIES CAN DO A LOT MORE TO ADVOCATE FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS AND MAKE SURE THOSE FOLKS ARE PROTECTED.

WHAT I WILL SAY IS THE DOUBLE TAX IS EVERYONE'S RESPONSIBILITY.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL POTENTIALLY READ THIS BOOK AND SAY, I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN DO ANYTHING.

WHAT I LOVE ABOUT THIS BOOK IS I DON'T LEAVE YOU HIGH AND DRY.

I ENSURE THAT EVERY CHAPTER INCLUDES SOME INDIVIDUAL ACTION YOU CAN TAKE.

THE HOPE IS IT INSPIRES YOU TO THINK ABOUT OTHER INDIVIDUAL ACTIONS I MIGHT NOT HAVE COVERED.

THAT IS THE BEAUTY OF BEING IN CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS OPENLY AND ALSO NOT STEERING AWAY FROM HOW WE CAN RADICALLY REIMAGINE THE WORLD WE ARE LIVING IN DESPITE THE CHALLENGES WE ARE FACING.

PARIS: SO MUCH TO TALK ABOUT, BUT WE ARE GOING TO LEAVE IT THERE AND HOPE THIS DOUBLE TAX TURNS INTO SOME DOUBLE PLAY.

YOUR WORK CHALLENGES US TO LOOK BEYOND THE SURFACE AND RECOGNIZE WHERE THESE COSTS ARE SHOWING UP.

THANK YOU.

ANNA: THANK YOU.

THIS WAS SUCH AN AMAZING CONVERSATION.

I AM GRATEFUL TO W GBH NEWS "ROOTED" AND ALL THE PEOPLE HELPING BEHIND-THE-SCENES.

PARIS: I AM PARIS ALSTON AND THIS IS GBH NEWS "ROOTED."

YOU CAN FOLLOW US ON INSTAGRAM AND LEARN MORE ABOUT WE ARE UP TO AT GBHNEWS.ORG.

UNTIL NEXT TIME, STAY WOKE, STAY ROOTED, AND UNTIL NEXT TIME, STAY TUNED.