- Please join me in welcoming to the stage the wonderful Jon M. Chu.

- How are you?

Hello everybody!

Good to see you.

Okay.

I can see some of you.

Yes.

See some Galindas and some Elphabas.

I love it.

Some dancers.

Wow.

- Do you remember actually when you saw the musical Wicked on stage for the first time?

- Yeah.

I, I was going to USC at the time and my mom, the year before I'd been going through chemotherapy.

So she wasn't, she used to take us to the theater all the time here in the city.

'cause I'm a Bay Area kid.

And so we'd either go to [cheering] Yes, yes, - That's right, he's ours.

- And so I, we used to go to San Jose or San Francisco, spent a lot of time here and it was either ballet season, opera season or musical season.

And so, so we hadn't done that for a while.

And I was maybe a junior or sophomore at, at USC film school, and I was there and she called me up, she said, Hey, Stephen Schwartz has a new musical and it's playing at the Curran theater and it's not even on Broadway yet.

Yes, - Right.

For you.

Broadway, - Stephen Schwartz is a genius.

And I was like, yeah, of course.

I wanna see this.

So we got this really special time together and I, we went to the Curran theater and I remember just being so blown away by this story that took the American fairy tale.

You know, there's very few American classic fairytales, but that's one that stuck around.

And, and something that my parents who came from Taiwan and China came and, and, and started a restaurant in Los Altos.

Been there for 56 years, still there, called Chef Chu's.

I have to plug it 'cause my parents would get mad at me I didn't.

"Comfort food at Comfortable Prices," as I like to say.

And so I, we got to go to this and, and they used to tell me the story of The Wizard of Oz all the time.

We used to watch the movie on, on tv.

And, and so for me to be, to reexamine our that Great American fairytale was so fascinating to see through the perspective of the Wicked Witch.

And I, because I was going to college at this, at that same time, my world was changing.

I'm the youngest of five kids and you know, they, they were telling me how great I am.

How great at making wedding videos and bar mitzvah videos I was, and you get to LA and it's a lot tougher than, you know, and, and this fairytale that falls apart.

And so I was reexamining, how about my friends from high school that are now all around the world and are they still my friend?

What was did that friendship mean?

So I was trying to organize all these things and emotions and the show, put it all out there in a new fairytale and shattered it, and also put it back together.

And I just loved that, to see that story through the wicked witch's point of view, or through Elphaba's point of view.

And, and it, and it, and it just blew me away and it felt cinematic.

And I thought, wow, someone's gonna make a great movie of this one day.

I didn't know 20 something years later I would get that call.

Wow.

And so that, it was, it was very special.

Yeah.

[Applause] - Yeah.

You even made like a list of your dream movies and it was on that - List.

- Yeah.

- And did you know then that when you got, if you were lucky enough to get the chance to make it, that you would make it a big screen spectacle?

- I mean, I didn't know if anyone would care about my version of it, but I knew, I knew when I saw that show sitting, I think I was in fourth row somewhere there, and I knew what I wanted to say with it.

I knew how to make that movie.

And I told Universal and Mark Platt, our amazing producer for 20 years to put me in.

And they, they never really called me back.

But, you know, 15 years in the business, having done musicals and all that, just done Crazy Rich Asian.

And In The Heights, that's when I got the call.

And it was also during COVID.

So I think people were like, are we making movies anymore?

Maybe not.

So give this guy a chance.

But even during COVID it came rushing back to me that feeling of what are we, who are we, what is America?

Is the, are those dreams that I saw my parents fulfill?

They started a business barely knowing the language, and they were able to give all five kids dreams and hopes themselves and could that exist again?

And and I, when I read the words this again during COVID lockdown, so our whole world is falling apart too.

It felt like, oh, the adults don't know what we're doing anymore.

And then realize, and I just had my first child, and you're like, oh, we're the adults now.

And what are the stories that I want to tell my kids?

- Yeah.

- What do I want them to believe in?

And, and I remember thinking, I, I, this, this movie not isn't just something that I could connect to that had to be made.

Who knew where it would be today with it?

That was five years ago.

But, and three babies later after that.

But a whole nother story.

I knew that it was just felt very compelling when, when Elphaba says, "Something has changed within me, something's not the same."

- Yeah.

- And it felt like I, that's how we all feel.

And movies of all things is a cathedral where we get to share ideas in where you put your phone down out there, the algorithm isn't in here, you don't talk to, you get to be with strangers and with your closest friends.

And you get to sit into the perspective of someone that is not you.

And I just thought that that was the antidote to what all the loneliness we're feeling, even in our own home.

And all the strangeness we're feeling if we could share again that this movie had all the right pieces of music, of course, but that relationship that we could really connect to.

So I was hoping that I could do it.

And it was a, it's been a great adventure to find it.

- Yeah.

I think I'm getting a sense of, especially the way that you talk about your parents of why you dream big productions.

Right.

Why you make sort of larger than life things.

'cause they really were dreamers too when they came to open.

Yeah.

I mean, they put all their dreams into you, into the restaurant.

- Yeah.

I, I think about that a lot.

Especially being a parent now, you know, you, when you have kids, you, you, you start to, you start to look at your own upbringing and you said, was that, was that the right thing that they did?

We weren't really in car seats back then.

Was that, are we doing it better now?

And I think part of that was, wow.

They really, first of all, I think it's part of, as, as the Bay Area, the Silicon Valley in the eighties and the nineties, it was a magical time.

You grew - Up during the dot-com boom.

So that was all about dreaming big, thinking big - Innovating.

Yes.

Even before the dot-com boom, before there was dot-com.

When it, when it was Hewlett Packard and NASA and, and all these things, it was - Right.

Being a part of the Boy Scouts, my parents really wanted us to be a part of the American dream culture.

And so watching movies was a tradition.

Reading books was a tradition.

And, and, and again, joining the Boy Scout doing all these things.

And at that time also the, you know, Michael Jackson was making these music videos that were basically musicals.

And we were sitting around the, the, the couch and the TV when The Simpsons was playing.

And that night on Sunday, he would premiere his thing.

And so Spielberg's fairytales were on the big screen.

I watched ET and was swept away by that.

And so there was a lot.

And Michael Jordan was like defying gravity already, and you would see it in real life.

So it was a magical time.

And everyone was dreaming at the future.

No one was on the cover of magazines yet.

This was, this was the dreaming time.

And I think that went into my bones.

And, and so yeah, I think that, that being in that environment, really, I, I had, I lived a romanticized idea of the world and I've, you know, as you get older, you question that.

But I, but I know it's real.

I know it's - I, I see what they've built from nothing.

And I got to pursue a career in the most American business, the movie business, and in, and, and to pursue the American musical movie, which is insane.

And I got to get there with no connections, not knowing anybody.

I mean, half the time, I'd drive up to the studio lot in years before they'd be like, oh, deliveries around the corner.

And I'm like, that's my backpack.

That's not food.

But so anyway, I think that that has always stayed in me.

And I try to protect that and I try to protect my patriotism for this country.

Yeah.

That it doesn't have to be filled with other ideas of that, but like the, the thing that we grew up with can exist.

And I do believe if I can succeed, then that dream is real.

And it's, and I, and I know it 'cause I live it.

[Applause] - I'm struck by you talking about sort of living a romanticized version of America, because I remember you describing your family as the Asian Kennedys, which, you know, why, why the Kennedys?

Interesting choice.

- Well, first of all, I, oh, there's a picture.

That's okay.

See.

Well, the thing about when I, when I really examined my mother, I, so she had to force the image of what we were before we were those things.

- Ah, - She took us to musicals before, you know, when we were five crazy kids and everyone would stare at us.

And we're five Asian kids rolling seven deep and we're restless and we're hyperactive.

And she dressed us all in polo and matching.

And she always made us know that we deserved to be in those clothes and to be in that place.

She made sure we took etiquette classes and she made, we, we played piano, of course I played violin, guitar, drums, saxophone.

And, and she would call me Jon Jon.

So I didn't call myself the Kennedys, she called herself the Kennedys.

And I think that, that, that aspiration of, of this, of this family, of this American family was something that she drove deep into us.

Wow.

And that we were ambassadors, like when people would come into the restaurant, you know, it's a restaurant.

People treat their servers in whatever way they want.

And I would witness them, treat my parents poorly sometimes, that's not all the customers, just some, but I, that would hurt my heart because I'd be like, what?

They can't do that.

And I'd get mad at my dad for not getting mad at them.

And they sat me down one day and they said, listen, you know, we're maybe one of the first Chinese families they're ever going to meet.

And they, they have certain ideas of who we are, and that's okay because we're taking their money.

But also, [Laughter] But also our job is not to fill their bellies, but also fill their hearts.

And maybe if we show them how we are that next time they meet a Chinese family, they'll, they'll double, they'll, they'll, they'll have double thoughts about having those initial conversations.

So that, that idea, that responsibility of that's what we represent, was always, always in us.

- Wow.

You must have really learned early the power of, of an image, the power of presentation.

- Yeah, definitely.

Definitely.

Which is good and bad, by the way.

So, yeah.

- Yeah.

Can you tell the story of when you realized you wanted to be a filmmaker?

When you first put together that footage of your family trip to Boston and played it for them, your family?

- So, you know, my parents, when we, they would, they would want us to travel to, so they would take us every year to a place.

And they loved all the newest stuff.

So we had a video camera at a time when it was like on your shoulder and the VHS tape in it.

And they, then they would hand that video camera to me, the youngest to hold on these vacations.

And so I just started playing around with it.

And so I just started taping all the stuff.

And you know, back in those days, you just pile tapes and tapes and you never look at them, but they're just there.

And I, I, I saw my brother's friend edit a video for their high school and everyone was like, enamored by this thing.

So I wanted to edit.

So we had this Sharper Image catalog that came to our, this was like the internet before it was the internet.

And you flip through it and they had this editing system, this little mixer where you could put your VCRs connected in it and you could put your stereo into it and you could put music on something.

And that was like, oh.

So I called my dad at 10:30 at night, he was still at the restaurant.

I said, dad, can you please buy me this?

And I bugged him and bugged him until he was like, fine, fine.

It's like a hundred dollars or something.

And we got it.

And I had to figure out, no one knew how to work it.

I figured it out.

And I cut together a vacation video for the family.

And I sat my parents down and I started playing it, I spent all night, I was up all night and showed them the video and it was to some oldies music.

And they started to weep when they watched it.

And not, I knew the footage, but watching them watch it showed me everything about them that I didn't know.

They turned into the young parents that I'd never knew.

They turned into teenagers listening to those music, that music.

And then when they started to cry, it felt like they were looking into their future.

And I realized that image, the thing that they had- I'm, I'm named after a TV show, Jonathan and my sister Jennifer, after this show called Heart to Heart, Jennifer and Jonathan Heart.

So them seeing us just like the Kennedys or the Heart to Heart, I dunno that seeing that solidified that their dream could be real.

And I Oh wow.

I saw the power of that for sure.

The power of being able to, well, first they teared up.

So being able to make them feel things - Yeah.

- But also the value they assign to being on a screen.

- Yeah.

- And then, you know, you showed them themselves on the screen.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

And yeah, I think that that, you know, you look at the, you look at the, the family photo, that's what they wanted us to be.

Even if I, they were like, stand up straight, put your arms in, whatever.

But that was really us.

And, and for me, that was my reality.

For me These, the video camera, as soon as I put the lens, the, the, the viewfinder into my eye, everything quieted.

You know, five kids, it's family.

You're, you're, you're fighting for food if you're gonna eat that night.

And, but that lens quieted everything.

And it was like these little moments, just observations.

And so I could be in an airport and I could zoom in on a family saying goodbye to each other.

Hmm.

And I could just watch it and sit there.

And I, it was like butterfly.

I caught it in a little bottle.

And I could go over here and see someone seeing each other for the first time in a long time.

It was just such, so much joy.

And then to take those little butterflies and then present it so that other people could see the world through my eyes.

It it, I mean, for a kid who, who, who, who's spoken over most of their life, it felt like, wow, this is, this is something I can, I can, I can do.

And, and it felt freeing actually.

- Yeah, - Yeah.

- To be able to show people the world through your eyes.

You went to USC film school, which was incredible, but you had this experience, I think, where you saw how other people saw you through their eyes.

And I wanted to ask you about that.

'cause I was actually really affected by this story.

So you were invited to watch like a screening of some of the best students - Oh, yes.

- Of potential directors, right, at USC.

- Yeah.

- And one of the films was about a woman who was struggling, you know, to find somebody, you know, just struggling to have a relationship, to date and going through that process.

And at the end of the film, it's like this montage right.

Of her apartment door opening and closing, opening and closing.

And it's opening on guys that are like, - Yeah, they're, they're - Disgusting or - Yeah, they're - Super weird - Things out everywhere.

Yeah.

And the, and we're watching this and these are the, the best of the best in film school.

So you're, we're in a theater like this and we're watching this, and I'm with my friends.

And then the last one that she opens up to see her date is an Asian guy.

And there's nothing weird about him.

She opens the door and she goes, "Uhh no."

And she shuts the door and the whole crowd laughs.

And I didn't get the joke.

Like, I literally, I wasn't offended.

I, I just didn't get the joke.

And I turned to my friend, I was like, I don't, I don't what, what just happened?

Did he do something?

And he's like, oh, no, no, it's just, you know, 'cause it's like, it's like Asian.

And I was like, wait, what?

It really, like, I, I couldn't process that at the moment because I, again, my parents probably protected us so much from any of that stuff.

Or it just happened and we just like, whatever.

And but that moment, seeing everybody laugh at that joke, like, puts a seed in my soul.

I was like, that is not okay.

That's the joke?

Is that what every time I walk into a room, everyone's like, oh, that's, the "Uhh no."

- The undateable Asian guy.

Yeah.

The unbeatable Asian guy.

And I, and so I remember thinking, I'm gonna get that.

I'm gonna get that director job and I'm gonna make a movie that's the opposite of this.

[Applause] Which is easier said than done.

- Oh yeah.

25 years before between Joy Luck Club and Crazy Rich Asians.

- Yes.

Yeah.

But I did, I did, then I wrote this script.

I was like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get, 'cause they choose only four directors out of all the people who want to be directors there.

And, and they choose a script separate from that.

But you can write and if they choose your thing and you, if they choose your script and you're a director, they, you could pair it.

So I wrote this script and went up for directing and the script was called Xiao Gweilo, which is like "little foreign devil" basically something like that.

It's what they called me when I went to Hong Kong for the first time, visiting my brother who was working there.

And when I went to Hong Kong, I remember being like, oh, this is like, this feels like all my people.

Like, I walk into a, especially having just gone to college, and coming in, it felt like, oh, these, or having experienced college that I, I don't feel I have to defend myself or anything.

I don't have to prove anything.

Everyone, I don't have to dress a certain, everyone's just like, they treat you like you're their cousin.

Which I guess I just hadn't really felt that kind of thing, which I just didn't really know.

And, and then, so I was hanging in Hong Kong and then they're like, oh, you're a gweilo.

And I was like, oh, what's that?

And they explained, oh, you know, you're like basically a, a white guy in a Asian form.

And I was like, oh, okay.

Is that, that's a bad thing?

And they're like, yeah, that's a bad thing.

I'm like, oh, okay.

And I realized, oh, that's not my home either.

And so I was like, well, that's, where do I sit in all of this?

So I made this short that is about the, this this kid's sort of cultural identity crisis.

And it was a musical of course, which was, it was really weird.

And we showed it.

And every time we, you know, when in, in, in film school, you show your dailies, so every weekend you shoot and then you show your class and they give you notes.

And in the notes they would, people in class would be like, you know, this looks cool and everything, but like, it feels like you're exaggerating this stuff.

Or like, did that really happen?

Nobody, did your fraternity brothers really nickname you Napalm?

And I'm like, yeah, that actually happened.

But then I felt I didn't know how to address it and I didn't know how I felt about it.

So how do you make a movie about it?

Because I had no answer about it.

And so it really made me self-conscious.

So the movie played and everybody loved it.

They're like, that was great.

And I felt very uncomfortable showing that movie that usually you're supposed to send your movie out to film festivals and even just for the sake of your crew, like, get it out there.

And I couldn't, I hid that movie.

I, I didn't know how to talk about my Asian-ness without being put into a category of just, oh, you're Asian here.

Just, you know, they start saying "ni hao" to you and all this, it just, it was a different category than me.

And I, so I, so I buried that, but I started to make a different short film about the secret life of Mothers.

Yes.

It was a musical.

And that, that, that short film is the thing that actually burst onto, burst me onto the scene and Steven Spielberg saw it and, and catapult me into Hollywood.

So in a weird way, I was validated for not talking about my Asian-ness.

And that would haunt me for 15 years after 10 years, 12 years, something like that.

In, in, in that.

And I would never address that until a certain time.

- Well, that's what I wanted to ask you because when I was thinking about your story, about that experience in, in USC film school and also just about how Hollywood is really hard on people with big dreams and the things that they want to create, and you do, I mean, there's this constant pressure that people feel, I think in your case, this pressure of like, right?

I just wanna be a filmmaker, not an Asian filmmaker.

But yet at the same time, there's these deeply rooted and powerful things about myself that should be expressed.

- Yeah.

- And so I wondered if those experiences were what influenced the way that you approached Crazy Rich Asians?

Because first of all, like the people in it were, you know, like they looked great, you know, they were, they could, you know, they could be all different kinds of things, but it was also somebody sort of confronting their Asian identity - Yeah.

- In in Asian country.

Yeah.

Right.

So what, what role, if any, did it play?

- Everything.

I mean, you know, when, when Steven Spielberg sees your short film, when you get into the business, you win the lottery.

I mean, I didn't have to do independent movies.

I wasn't doing music videos or, or, or, or commercials or something.

I got in and I got to be in a position to direct studio movies right from the start.

And when, when you do that, you don't know how to win the lottery again.

And you find yourself very, you have a deficiency about do you even deserve to be here - Beyond, 'cause the projects that that like Spielberg, like Moxie and - Yes.

- And then Bye Bye Birdie, right after films, - Projects, those - Fell apart.

- And they, and those, and those projects did fall apart.

And then you're like, do I belong And even when you start making movies, like my, my first movie was Step Up To the Streets, right?

And it's this dance movie sequel.

But even that, because you didn't fully earn it.

You did.

I don't know, it felt like you did it.

It was a short film to go to there.

It's a big leap that you are, and I don't know all the technical parts of it.

I don't know how to deal with a studio.

You don't feel.

It's more than, it's, it's more than feeling like you don't belong there.

It's like, I actually don't know.

So I, I started making these movies and I, and I was learning, it was my grad school, even though they're movies that, you know, made, made these studios lots of money all around the world.

I secretly was like, I just, I just need to keep making a movie so I can learn how to make a movie.

And then I got in this, I made all sequels during that time too.

And there was a certain point I was doing.

So I did GI Joe, which is a big global hit, and working with The Rock and Bruce Willis and everything was fine.

Like very comfortable.

I faked enough people out except the critics, they hated me.

It's fine.

No big deal.

But the audience loved me, and I, they loved the movies I was making.

That's who I was making it for.

And the, there's a point I was working on, Now You See Me 2 with some of the greatest actors, Michael Caine, Morgan Freeman, Jesse Eisenberg, Woody Harrelson, all these people.

And I remembered like hitting my 10,000 hours.

Like I could feel like, oh, I know what I'm doing here.

And oh, I, I can hang with these greats.

And then I looked around and I was like, and I'm very proud of the movie and I love the movie and I love all the people we worked with and everything.

But I looked around, I was like, anyone could have made this movie.

Like, what am I trying to say?

And my student self came rushing back into me, the one that I had buried.

And I could very clearly feel this of like, what scares you the most?

And the only thing I can think of is my cultural identity crisis.

And I had to stop everything I got off of, you know, I was attached to GI Joe 3, and Now You See Me 3.

And I told my team at the time, my agent, managers, I said, I'm not gonna make money for you for five years at least.

'cause I have to find myself right now.

- Hmm.

As a filmmaker and storyteller.

And so I went on a search for what that could be.

And I found two projects, actually.

Crazy Rich Asians, which my mom had sent me.

My aunt had sent me, my sister sent me, some customers sent me.

And they said, just read this book.

It's so, it's, it's, it's so, it's so good.

And, and it was about the Chu's in Cupertino, which was crazy.

If that's not a sign.

And it, but what I read in the book was not the wealth and the silliness of, of that it, which was great and whatever.

But I found this Rachel Chu character going to Asia for the first time.

To me, I'm like, that's me in Hong Kong trying to understand both generationally and and just nationally, like, who are you?

I was like, that's my, that's what I can tell and all the other stuff I know how to do.

We'll make this fabulous.

We'll get, and then also I had been watching all these amazing Asian talents from around the world, not being in big movies, but being great comedians, being beautiful people, great actors and dramatic best friends.

Yes.

All of it.

And then realize, and then realizing, oh, the pieces could come together if I could just, so I thought we were gonna do it independently.

And at the same time there was this movement around Oscars So White, there was all this stuff happening and the heat was heating up.

And I realized, oh, I'm part of the problem.

Because when they talk about "them" making movies, yes, you could talk about whatever system is the, but like I am the guy who's casting these things.

I am the guy who is making these movies.

I'm on the front lines and I could make a decision.

And I've made these companies enough money that I probably have enough leeway to just say, trust me on some of this.

And so Warner Brothers wanted to come in on, on Crazy rich Asians and, and so I'm getting way ahead of us.

But Crazy Rich Asians became that vehicle for me to tell my story through this travelogue film.

That was, and that's why it's, even though it's a romantic comedy, it's not really a romantic comedy.

It's about her self-worth and her finding that, and that in the end of the day, it didn't matter whether she was with, with him, Nick or not by the end, that the Mahjong scene would be the definitive scene where she battles Yeah.

[Applause] And working with Michelle Yeoh, the great Michelle Yeoh, of course, she was like, she was like, Jon, I, I just want you to know, like I read the book, but I, I refuse to play a villain in this you know, I won't be able to hang out with my friends if I am treating my, my, my heritage in that way.

I was like, great.

Because I think they should both matter.

And I think that battle at the end through Mahjong should feel like they, you, every time one talks, you believe that person and then the other person talks and they believe that person.

It's like the conversation I wanted to have with my parents, but never got to have, like, let's do that over Mahjong.

[Laughter] And it was, and it was beautiful.

'cause they didn't, you know, we'd write a piece and then Michelle would be like, "If she said that to me, I would slap her."

[Laughter] And then Constance, who is just as fierce, would be like, "Oh, if she said that to me, I would slap her."

So on the day we're working out these words, but it was really expressing a generation of Asian Americans talking to their parents.

And it was expressing a generation of parents talking to their kids and where that line is, and, and maybe ultimately it's like, Hey, we can sacrifice.

We can do the things.

We have not been tested the way you have.

You left everything you had to come to another place.

And that is rockstar.

But also we have other things too, that we're fighting and we are capable just 'cause we are you as well.

And I love that argument to be able to put that in a movie, in a frothy thing, that people would just take like a spoonful of sugar.

And and I knew that people, if they could see this movie, they would feel that and see that.

And so that's, that's what happened.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

They showed up.

- They did.

Yeah.

[Applause] And that was actually really important because I understand Netflix offered you more money, but you took Warner Brothers because you knew they would play it in theaters.

- Yeah.

- Why was that so important?

- Well, that was a big debate.

And I went back and forth, one of the hardest decisions of my life.

We were gonna do it independently.

And then we got, suddenly we're like, oh, maybe there's interest in this.

'cause we could feel it in the air.

So went to these places and Warner Brothers had put down a great offer, but Netflix was building their arsenal.

And they're coming in, they're like, this is exactly what we do.

Jon, Kevin, if you want people to see Asian actors in something, you have to give them access.

And Netflix gives everyone access.

And not just in this country, all around the world, all at once.

You put it in the theater, the you lose access to that.

Is that what you want?

Like, yo, you're right.

That's right.

You're right.

Like, do you wanna serve the future or do you wanna serve the past, your past ideas?

That's a very hard argument.

And then they're like, oh, here's a buttload of money too.

[Laughter] And we'll, we'll develop movie two and three right away.

And that's very tough.

And, and Warner Brothers, you know, they're like, we're gonna, we, we believe in this movie.

We believe in artists' voices and we believe this is something very important, but you're taking a little long to respond to our offer.

So next Thursday is gonna be the last, you're gonna have 20 minutes to, we're gonna have our last offer to you, and you have 20 minutes before we pull it off the table.

And so we told Netflix, we're like, okay, that day is the day.

And then we're all gonna decide on that moment.

And I remember the night before Kevin and I talking it out and being like, what do we do?

What do we do?

And we didn't quite know what the answer would be, but we did talk about Netflix is great.

Like they, they do that already and it's very effective.

But we are also in a position to put it on a big screen.

And we had to examine what it means to put something on the big screen.

When you put something on the big screen, you are putting value to something because they have to pay upfront to see that thing.

They have to drive to the theater, they have to decide to do that.

And how do they decide to do that?

Oh, you have a $50 million budget of marketing that's going to sell these characters.

And the aspiration of these characters, the beauty of the characters, the comedy of these characters, this is gonna be on billboards and on commercials, and it's gonna be in culture in ways that it's not just a banner on screen.

And for us, that was like, that's, we've been invited to this to the street party.

We have never been invited to the museum to put it in glass and for make people, everybody out there say, I want to be like that.

And so that was what our, our intention was going into this 20 minutes.

And we get on the phone with all the lawyers.

There's a lot of lawyers and, and our producers and, and Warner Brothers comes in with their last thing and they cut the offer in half.

Wow.

They said because because we had to wait a week.

So now we're like, oh, I mean, oh crap.

[Laughter] And now we're in a real discussion.

Yeah.

And, and, and actually technically we don't have the right to do it.

We don't own, he owns part of the rights, but the producer also owns the other parts of the rights.

So, but the producers said, we'll, we, we believe in Jon and Kevin, we'll put it in their hands to decide.

So credit to them to put it in our hands.

All the lawyers were like, please take the Netflix deal.

Please take it.

It's great.

And it gets to all the eyeballs in the world.

And we, and we debated this and we say, Hey, you take all this money, it's great money from Netflix.

What if we took part of our money and donate it to Asian and entertainment causes?

Like, oh, that's a great nego, that's a great place to, to to, to find balance in this.

And then we're like, well, where do those that money go?

Oh, it goes to people to get people in this position right now to make this decision right now.

We're like, ah.

And we're like, do you need the money?

He's like, not really.

I like, do you need the money?

Not really.

I mean, I love, I want a new backyard, but it's fine.

[Laughter] There's a dirt quad.

It's fine.

And we, and so we, so we have to put it in the museum.

We have to, this is the moment, this is the moment that we're prepared to do that.

And we're in the right position to do that.

Yeah.

We've done enough movies to do that.

We've earned this moment.

So we did it and we released it through Warner Brothers.

Yeah.

- Yeah.

[Applause] You know, Crazy Rich Asians came out, but it feels like an incredibly different time than Wicked is coming out for this country.

Right.

Yeah.

There was, as you were saying, some real discussion about Oscars So White and there was much more of a affirmation of the value of diversity, for example.

Yeah.

And it was so interesting reading the description of part two of Oz, which is, you know, when Elphaba, the Cynthia Erivo character, the Wicked Witch of the West right, realizes that the wizard is a fraud and she's going to fight his fascist rule.

And I was wondering when you were filming, shooting, because I know you ended up shooting both part one and part two at the same time.

- At the same time yeah.

- If you had any sense of just the resonance of that particular message to when it would come out.

You know, I'm sure it was early to see, but - Yeah, - It's kind of unca, it's kind of - Incredible.

It, it's uncanny.

And every week, you know, even in the last year, every week you're like, oh my, this is getting more and more relevant.

This is crazy.

But that's the power of a timeless story, is it somehow is always timely.

And I think that's why it goes beyond politics.

It's actually about humanity.

About what happens when you give people a lot of power and what happened to the powerless or the voiceless.

And that is a cycle.

That is a cycle.

That's why stories work, because we live this cycle, and every generation or two we get tested, we get asked, who are you?

And we get presented the facts and we choose, and maybe I was born at a time where we made certain choices that I believe in fully and, and, and want to defend.

And the story happens to be in one of those pockets and starting with, you know, when it's written, when the musical was written in 2000 or '99, 2000ish, or right after nine, I'm sorry it's 2001 because it was in sort of reaction to 9/11 and how that changed the world.

And so how America's sort of idealism sort of fell to the wayside and we were fighting a war.

And what does that feel like when everyone's trying to position who we are again and, and who do we follow?

And so it was at a time of questioning our identity.

And at the time that I got this project, it was COVID and we were again being tested again.

And it was in the air.

Like I don't think it just, I think it was in the air.

I think the urgency was in the air for me to push it further and knowing the, the dials that I need to pull in order to make the, get them to make this movie.

I'm sure the studio felt it in the air.

There was something when it's, when it's meant to be it's meant to be.

And so we, so, so I think that, that when we were making the movie, we hired Cynthia Erivo to say those words, those words that I had heard many, many times from the Curran theater, through the album all those years.

They meant different things already at that time.

And I remember feeling it.

And when they come from Cynthia Erivo's mouth and you see her eyes and she's showing her life through those words, it's almost not an Elphaba that I've ever seen before.

- Yes, - It is coming through the wounds, the decades of wounds that, that she, that Cynthia Erivo has battled.

And when you have Ariana Grande, who is literally the most popular girl in the world, going through a moment in her life where she's trying to find her own independence from, I don't know, whatever, that made her a star, a pop star.

And she's growing up too.

And so our conversations on the floor of my office, 'cause we like to talk on the floor and rehearse on the floor, that's their choice.

That we, we connected on this digging at this truth.

And for me as a filmmaker with kids and evolving as a filmmaker and being at this time where I felt like we, we had a microphone when the world was going nuts.

We had space to say something.

- Yeah.

- The responsibility that I'd watched it with Crazy Rich Asian, that, that we all had a responsibility to bring our our lives into this story in some way.

Movie one, the fairytale, you can all get on board on that.

Movie two, the fairytale shattered and you're picking up the pieces.

And that was where, to me, the meat of this, of this story was.

- You're picking up the pieces, but also there's so much of what you're saying earlier about the kinds of choices that we have to make, like who we are, where we stand.

I, I do really feel like that that was so much reflected in Galinda's character, right?

Yeah.

Where she is, she's recognizing that she is charming, she has power.

Yeah.

And she's trying to figure out how she wants to use it.

And she's straddling these two worlds.

Right?

And so how does she end up using that power?

- Yeah.

- There was something that I read that you said in Esquire, which was something along the lines of, I think I am in a position to get whatever I want made because you have now, you know, proven yourself, you have also met the incentives of Hollywood, as frustrating as sometimes they can be with regard to things that will make money.

I mean, you are in a tremendous position of power.

And, and I'm wondering how you are thinking about using that now.

- Mm.

I will say one thing is no one, no one is guaranteed the opportunity to tell their story.

I mean, making a movie costs a lot of money and you have a lot of people to feed and you have a lot of people working their butts off and you have to pay them properly.

So it is a marketplace.

And I think that is something that on the activist side is, is easy to tweet and declare and have a debate and say the things, but at the same time, the the system of making a movie requires a lot.

And you are, not everybody has the the the means or the the opportunity to do that because you do have to service and paying people to do this.

And so I think that that game is, is fascinating, but it is the reality of the game.

And I think that, you know, having the idealism that people are just gonna give you that I think is fine.

But I think when you're on the ground, we have to be, we do have to be better.

We do have to like entertain, tell a great story and get our message in.

It just is why it's difficult to do these things.

And so for me it was always trying to learn how, how, how to communicate, how to balance, how to do all those things so I could get what I really wanted to say in there.

And, and I think if you showed it, it became fact.

Like putting a movie in the bo in the in, in, in the marketplace is really important to me.

Because when you put it, no matter what critics say, no matter what executives say, when you put it in the marketplace, if it makes money, it becomes fact.

The stars and Crazy Rich Asians are stars.

And that's a fact.

I don't care what you say about it, I don't care what you say about it.

People are showing up for them.

And I'm in a position to prove facts because I'm on the position of making stuff right now.

And I may not be in that position for, I will not be in that position forever and maybe next year that I can.

But while you're in that position to make facts, I wanna make a lot of facts that I know that are true.

And I look at movies as the great, if I'm, if I'm a really great storyteller, I can do all of that.

And so when I think about, when you talk about Glinda, I think we actually all are Glinda.

I would love to be Elphaba, but I would love to have that courage.

I think she's too powerful for who I am.

I hesitate too much.

I, I say things and, and when it comes down to the moment to, to leap, I don't always leap.

I want to, but I can't always leap.

And I think through "Wicked: For Good," we get to watch her figure out her power that it isn't, can't just be performative.

That she actually has to do something, be something in order for it to change.

And I think that that's Elphaba's the one who's like, you know what, by the end you could see that as a retreat or you could see that as, as courage of sacrificing herself for, for the good of the people.

Or you could see it as, you know what, I don't owe my misery to any of you.

I've already told you the problems and if you're not gonna fix it, I'm out.

And she hands the book of knowledge and magic to Glinda.

And now it's up to Glinda.

- Yeah.

- To decide what she's gonna do with it.

And I feel that's the position that, not just me, but I think we're all in different positions that we are, we know the truth.

We know it in our heads and and whether other people are telling us differently or not, but we know who we are and how are you gonna act on it.

- So what is effect you want to emphasize?

What is it in this position of power that you want to say?

Or are you expressing to me that you are grappling with it?

- I'm, I'm definitely grappling with it.

I, I feel that every day.

But I will say the thing that I, I know is that love is not cringey.

That love is the most powerful thing.

Generosity.

I am the product of generosity.

People came to that, our restaurant and they saw me, this little kid trying to make movies and they gave me video cards when a kid shouldn't have the money to go pay for those.

They gave it to me for free.

Adobe gave me software, Apple gave me computers, Sun Microsystems gave me video.

It was monitors and things like that.

And I have seen it.

I've been on the other side of that.

And so for me, when I go off into the world, of course cynicism can come in and it's not easy.

The world is difficult, it's not naivete.

But I know when I make my movie, some people say, oh, it's just like, it's fluff, it's fun, whatever.

But like, I truly believe that those things are what drive us.

I grew up in this, in this town.

That is what drove our town to create innovation.

Innovation isn't created because you're busy blaming someone else.

You can't have a vision for who we are or where we live.

When you're looking at everyone else being, what do I get?

If you got that, what do I got?

We always looked out whether that was space or that was in the internet that we that we created.

And I, through my movies, at least for now and through my life, I just want to be, just show that you can, those things still exist inside of you.

- Mmm.

- That excitement of wonder and delight can be as grand and as big as the dreams you want to be.

And you should dream even bigger.

And yet it can be as intimate and honest and raw as the, as a heartbreak of seeing your friend walk away from you.

And to me, that's the expansiveness of cinema.

That's the beauty of the voice of what I found on the little TV in the little view finder and on the big screen when I get to travel around the world and see it affect people who don't even speak the language that I speak.

It is a human.

It isa human right to know that we can feel those things.

And I don't want people to forget that.

[Applause] [Applause] - What's an upcoming project that you said yes to, that you are gonna put your viewfinder to, that you're gonna put your point of view to, that you're excited about?

- I'm working on a lot of things, but I don't know what's my next one?

I think that's the big question.

I'm, I'd like to develop a lot of things just to see like what, when, when my curiosity starts to really poke at it and I'm working on my first animated movie.

So that's that's real.

That's yes.

"Oh, The Places You'll Go: A Dr.

Seuss Story."

Yes.

I, I'm working with the Seuss Estate and JJ Abrams our producer, and Jill Colton is my co-director on it because I've never done an animated musical or movie.

It's a musical.

Sorry, it's not a reveal.

It's really true.

And Pasek and Paul, who did Dear Evan Hansen and Greatest Showman are writing the music.

It's very special.

Wow.

And, but that won't come out to 2028, but it's a really special one.

That was, that was Theodore Geisel's last book.

He had a terminal illness when he wrote it, it was his goodbye to the world, his last message.

And it's unlike any of his other stories.

And it is really beautiful and it is, it is that dream of possibilities and what happens when, when you do have a dream, but it doesn't sugarcoat it.

And so I'm excited of the world we're creating in that right now.

Ariana Grande's a voice in it, Josh Gad's a voice in it, and more to come.

So yeah.

- I've been reading also about possibly a Britney Spears biopic.

- Yeah, yeah I'm working on that.

- Also maybe Crazy Rich Asians, the series, is that real?

- We're working on that.

- You know, my whole thing.

That's great.

Yeah.

We're working on a Crazy Rich Asian series.

We we're waiting for the official button to be pushed, but it's, it's really exciting.

And, and yeah, the Britney Spears stuff we we're working on.

So everything's sort of like boiling.

Yes.

- So you've said that storytelling is both our greatest hope and our biggest battleground.

What do you mean by that?

- I think that we are, when I made films in high school, I became a Christian when I was 17 years old.

And it was a new thing in my life and I loved it.

And it, it, it, it, it it, it put this blanket on the mystery that really helped me find comfort and, and connections.

And so they asked me to make videos for the church and at that point I got pretty good at making videos, not gonna lie.

And so they would have certain sermons that they would do, and I would make the videos for it.

And, and, and they were very convincing.

And, and people would watch it and I would watch them watch it, and they would cry when they were watching it, and they would feel very emotional.

And I, I felt a little bit guilty because they were reacting to my, the work, not reacting to the words of God.

And they wanted more and more videos from me.

And at certain point I was like, I think this is not the right thing.

I, I saw people being moved by media and stories in ways that even if I wanted them to, it felt wrong to do that.

And they had no idea what they were, what they were, the feelings were real, but how they were getting those was maybe the wrong thing.

And so I, I pulled away from that.

But I saw the power of the storytelling that you can receive information in ways and open doors that you sometimes don't let, let in.

- Yes.

- And so I have been very aware of that my whole life.

That as we get more and more information, as the world has gotten information, as kids have, everybody has a camera now, everyone's me when I was a teenager now.

And you can post those things.

There is a huge power in what you're posting and what you're saying, and there's huge power in what people are posting to you.

And, and now all the information's coming at us and I just think we cannot, we don't know how to handle it all.

So we just take the headline.

And so we're being informed by these headlines and we're being guided by rage bait because that's the incentive.

Now click keep clicking, keep clicking.

And I think the only way to get true information to people, to see them through click bait is to connect to their human side.

And story is the way information just goes away.

But, but story can get you in, can deliver information in ways that you can actually see it.

Like I said, you sit in a theater and the algorithm is gone and it's just you and this image and you can accept those things.

So I think that's what I mean is like, it's not just about putting out stuff.

It's about how, how we grasp information, when we connect human to human and, and that that highway is something we, that we everybody has to start to understand before we can fully be sort of protected by the things that are trying to like get in between us.

- I, I'm hearing a few things in, in what you're saying that essentially the story is a powerful way to get messages across.

Yeah.

And we, humans are drawn to stories.

- We respond to stories - Our whole life.

Right.

And, and you know that so well.

- History.

Yeah, - Yeah, yeah.

Through the movie making that you do and how a story is so paramount in it all, but you're not the only one who knows.

There are a lot of people out there with different motivations - Yeah.

- That could use those same tools and, and recognize the same things about how people respond to story in ways that I guess are just coming at us all the time.

So it sounds like you're worried about our ability to discern between the stories that sort of, I guess, manipulate us and the stories that are actually trying to Yeah.

Maybe bring us together or teach us facts or something valuable Yeah, I think I'm, I, I think I'm concerned on, on, on, on two fronts.

I'm concerned about people learning, learning that, and, and, and understanding how to utilize that or, or how to protect themselves.

And that, but also that our curiosity, we used to say curiosity, like follow your curiosity.

And that was like whatever makes you interested, follow, follow, follow.

But now curiosity has been invaded by the incentive of clicks.

And I think now, you know, you can be cur as you've flipping through, it's figuring you out.

So you, you can be curious at a puppy, but it's bringing into another conversation about something else.

And then you go there and, and so now we have to be actually aware of where our curiosity is going and be defensive.

And that's really scary to me.

That's at the heart of it all.

You know, politicians will be politicians, movies will be movies.

But when we get to, when we get into our actual instincts where our heart is leading us, that is danger, danger zone.

And the only way to combat it, we can't, I mean, it is what it is.

The only way is to make people aware so that maybe you can just, even if you are being curious, you can just think again And decide whether you want to be, how curious you wanna be into bernaoodles.

Because I didn't want a bernadoodle, but I, I think about having a bernadoodle and how cute that would be, but it would never get along with my other dog.

And then I think about other dogs.

Anyway, it goes on and on I don't know what I'm doing.

So, but it is interesting, - Both, both.

It sounds like being more aware and recognizing the way that you're being manipulated to want a bernadoodle.

- Yes.

But also- - I definitely don't need a bernadoodle.

I have five kids and I already have a dog.

- But also it sounds like one of the antidotes is to also tell true stories.

Tell more stories.

- Yeah and not be afraid to tell stories.

- Tell good stories, real stories, joyful stories.

- I think rage and, and and, and anxiety and fear is such an easy thing to draw people to a story.

And young filmmakers go to that because it's, it's, it's hard to master.

But, but because it's a quick hit.

And when you get 300 hits in a day and you're a kid, you're like, that's what I need to be doing.

And we're training these young filmmakers.

Everyone's a filmmaker, and we're training all these people that that's what you're supposed to do.

And I lived in a time when it was not the way you're supposed to do.

You're supposed to inspire and not be naive and not be hide all the hard stuff, but still inspire.

You walk out of that and you want to be a contribution to the society, not be a poison to it.

And I just, so, I, I, yeah, I agree.

It's, I think it's just trying to, how do we communicate that?

How do we educate people?

And, and for me, I am not someone who's going to, I'm not an activist that goes out there and stuff, but I can prove it in the work.

I can prove it, I can make it a fact in the work.

And if we can build an army of people that spread joy and love and show how that can, then, then, then suddenly you have a dog in the fight.

But right now we don't have a lot of dogs in the fight.

- I think.

[Applause] - Yeah.

I think- - This conversation got really intense.

I'm so sorry.

- I think you're right.

We have, we have tools and you're saying use 'em.

I mean, we've got the ball in our hands.

We've got the ball in our pockets.

We can, we can do it.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

You wanna take a few questions before you have to go?

I know you have to leave real soon.

- Let's do it.

- All right.

- I'm down.

- There was one that I saw in the vase earlier that it's in my head.

Okay.

So I'm gonna ask you right now.

- Oh, we had a vase.

That's right.

- Yeah.

There was like this vase.

Yes.

With like, people putting their Thank you for all the - Vase question.

- First question was, what is your favorite meal at Chef Chu's?

[Laughter] - See, here's the thing.

My dad, I, I, my dad has texted me the list that I'm supposed to say, and I never remember that because I only eat the plain stuff.

But I love it.

I mean, it's, the pot stickers are made fresh every day.

And I love those.

And that's what I eat.

I don't know how to lie about that.

Or the garlic noodles is what I crave.

And yes, he, he, he has the spare ribs that are really great and the whatever the, you know, but that's, so anyway, I, I'm so boring.

I'm so sorry.

But when you're doing your homework at the bar of the restaurant and you're supposed to fold napkins all day, potstickers are really great comfort, okay?

- And then I think Caroline's gonna bring me a couple more questions, but another one that was basically asked was, do you let like filmmaker students shadow you on set?

- Yeah, I do.

You know, I am the worst mentor for people.

'cause I, I just get obsessed with what I'm doing and I don't, I I start to like, what do you, oh yeah.

But, but actually on set, I'm great.

I actually love people on set because I love showing them.

I love when my kids are there and I get to show them, oh, this is what an A camera is, and a B camera is, and this is what this crane does.

So I love giving that, that, that tour.

So yeah, I do.

- This one actually had a name on it and a heart, and it said to Mr.

Jon M. Chu, was there a moment during production where the film told you it needed to be something different than you planned?

- Hmm.

That's great.

It happens every day.

And that is what I live for.

To me, that is what I'm doing.

All the preparations for a movie, if it can be written in your bedroom or at your dinner table, it's not good enough.

If everything I thought the movie would be, became, and maybe some directors are more are, are, are brilliant and know how to do that.

I cannot do that.

I don't, I can do as best as I can, but it is a collaborative effort.

And when Ari and Cynthia are having a moment in a scene like For Good, and I think I know how it's gonna go, it's the last song of a a two movie, giant musical.

We're gonna have cranes whipping around here, we're gonna have snow, and I can do this whole thing because that's what people want at the end of this movie.

And then they start doing it and you're like, oh, this is none of those things.

When they're singing, all I want to do is look in her eyes and, and see her deliver that message to Elphaba.

And all I want to do is then see Elphaba react.

Some of the things as, as she's hearing this for the first time, that Glinda's basically like, "I'm gonna be okay and I'm gonna be okay because of you."

And I wanna see how Elphaba feels.

I don't want that stupid crane.

And so, so every day I'm in a weird way, the director's job is to find those moments, is to listen to the movie.

You can prep, prep, prep, prep, prep.

And then you listen to your movie and it will speak to you and it will become something you could have never planned.

And that is the magic of collaboration in that way.

And even in the edit, when you thought, oh, I know the shot, I know what happened on that day.

When you cut it together, two images together mean a different thing.

And suddenly you realize, and you have to be present for that.

Oh, I thought the scene was all gonna be through this way of, of, of, of cutting around to see her do this thing.

But actually that one shot does it all.

Okay.

Just do the one shot.

It's not lit the best, but I, but, but that is the shot.

And then, and then, and you, and you roll with, I mean, maybe some directors maybe are different.

Again, everybody has their own way, but for me, I'm performance first.

- Yeah.

- I follow where those actors are taking us.

- Yeah.

You're open to what it's telling you it needs to be.

- Yeah.

- Well, Jon, it's been such a pleasure to talk with you.

- Thank you.

Thank you so much.

- Jon M. Chu.

Thank you everybody.

[Applause] [Applause] - Can I, can I say one last thing before we go?

I just want to say, I know there's filmmakers out there, writers out there, creative people out there, and that you are great storytellers and you have a great story to tell.

And that it is, it will not be my story.

It will be a different story and there will be a lot of hardships.

But you have to keep walking.

You have to keep walking and just in the way that when you go on the, on the set and you have to hear what it's, what, what the film is saying back to you.

I think you as storytellers, I would more than you saying I want to be a director.

I think you're storytellers because stories in many mediums, whether that's social media or a picture or a painting or your food that you're making, if you're a storyteller, you, you, you, you plug into empathy and to the human experience and you find your way and you try to express those things in whatever medium.

So I would keep your antennas open for where you storytelling is best used and that's where you should follow.

[Applause] - I go this way, this.