HAWAI'I LAWMAKERS INTRODUCED SEVERAL BILLS IN THE CURRENT LEGISLATIVE SESSION THAT WOULD LEGALIZE LIMITED AMOUNTS OF MARIJUANA FOR RECREATIONAL USE.

ONE BILL CITES THE POTENTIAL FOR ECONOMIC GROWTH AND INCREASED TAX REVENUE TO HELP THE STATE MEET ITS STRATEGIC GOALS WHILE OTHERS NOTE THE GROWING NATIONAL TREND TO LEGALIZE RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA USAGE.

THE PROPOSALS ELICIT STRONG OPINIONS FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE.

TONIGHT’S LIVE BROADCAST AND LIVE STREAM OF INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI'I START NOW.

¶¶ ¶¶ >>Daryl: ALOHA AND WELCOME TO INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI'I...I'M DARYL HUFF.

THE MARIJUANA MOVEMENT HAS CAUSED A DEEP DIVIDE.

BUT IN RECENT YEARS, A MAJORITY OF STATES, INCLUDING HAWAI'I, HAVE REFORMED LAWS TARGETED AT CANNIBIS.

MEDICAL-USE MARIJUANA IS LEGAL IN HAWAI'I AND LAST YEAR A LAW THAT DECRIMINALIZED SMALLER AMOUNTS OF POT WENT INTO EFFECT.

THIS YEAR, THERE ARE A HANDFUL OF BILLS MOVING THROUGH THE STATE LEGISLATURE, INCLUDING ONE TO LEGALIZE RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA FOR ADULTS.

OUR PANEL TONIGHT INCLUDES GUESTS WHO ARE BOTH FOR AND AGAINST THE PROPOSALS.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR PARTICIPATION IN TONIGHT'S SHOW.

YOU CAN EMAIL, CALL OR TWEET YOUR QUESTIONS.

AND YOU’LL FIND A LIVE STREAM OF THIS PROGRAM AT PBSHAWAII.ORG AND THE PBS HAWAII FACEBOOK PAGE.

NOW, TO OUR GUESTS.

CLARE CONNORS IS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR THE STATE.

SHE WAS APPOINTED BY GOVERNOR DAVID IGE IN 2019.

PRIOR TO THIS POST SHE WORKED AS A LAWYER IN BOTH THE PUBLIC AND PRIVATE SECTORS.

DEMOCRATIC STATE SENATOR KARL RHOADS REPRESENTS DISTRICT 13, WHICH INCLUDES NU'UANU, PAUOA, LILIHA, IWILEI AND CHINATOWN.

HE IS THE CHAIR OF THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE.

REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE VAL OKIMOTO SERVES DISTRICT 36 WHICH INCLUDES MILILANI AND MILILANI MAUKA.

SHE IS CURRENTLY THE HOUSE MINORITY LEADER.

AND NIKOS LEVERENZ IS THE BOARD PRESIDENT FOR THE DRUG POLICY FORUM OF HAWAII.

THE NONPROFIT WORKS TO EDUCATE POLICYMAKERS AND THE PUBLIC ON EFFECTIVE WAYS TO ADDRESS DRUG ISSUES.

LET ME START OFF WITH YOU.

WHAT IS THE LOGIC OF DECRIMINALIZING MARIJUANA?

YOU'VE GOT TO MAKE THE HARDER ARGUMENT.

THE LAW WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE.

WHAT'S THE VALUE IN THE SOCIETY OF LEGALIZING THIS DRUG?

>> WELL, FIRST, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

GREAT TO BE BACK WITH YOU.

I THINK THAT EIGHT DECADES OF THE WAR AGAINST CANNABIS, IS A TANTAMOUNT FAILURE.

PEOPLE DO NOT STOP USING DRUGS.

WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS A SYSTEM OF MASS INCARCERATION AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE SUPERVISION AND CONTROL THAT IMPACTS SO MANY PEOPLE, PARTICULARLY NATIVE HAWAIIAN COMMUNITIES AND PEOPLE IMPACTED BY SOCIAL DETERMINANCE.

CANNABIS IS FAR LESS DEADLY AND SO SOCIETY THAN ALCOHOL AND TOBACCO.

ALCOHOL CAUSES 95,000 DEATHS PER YEAR.

AND EACH HAS ABOUT 300 BILLION IN COST RELATED TO HEALTHCARE, LOSS PROFIT AND OTHERS.

CANNABIS, COMPARED TO THOSE SUBSTANCES IS SAFER, AND IT IS LES INJURIOUS TO A PERSON'S HEALTH.

IT WILL -- CANNABIS LEGALIZATION WILL HELP ENSURE THAT NATIVE HAWAIIANS AND IMPACTED COMMUNITIES WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE IN THE EMERGING CANNABIS MARKETPLACE.

>>Daryl: ATTORNEY GENERAL CLARE CONNORS, YOU'RE PROBABLY THE STRONGEST VOICE AGAINST THIS.

WHAT'S YOUR CONCERN ABOUT LEGALIZING MARIJUANA?

A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT'S A PRETTY BENIGN SUBSTANCE.

>> RIGHT.

THANK YOU, DARYL.

NICE TO SEE YOU.

DELIGHTFUL TO BE ON THE PANEL WITH EVERYBODY TONIGHT.

TO STEP BACK BECAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT.

IN MY ROLE AS CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, I REPRESENT LAW ENFORCEMENT.

LAW ENFORCEMENT DOES HAVE QUITE A BIT OF CONCERN ABOUT THE LEGALIZATION OF MARIJUANA.

IN LARGE PART BECAUSE THERE'S STILL NOT ENOUGH SCIENCE OR DATA OUT THERE AS TO HOW IT'S GOING TO AFFECT THE ROADS.

HOW WE'RE GOING TO DEVISE METRICS FOR IMPAIRMENT.

WE DON'T HAVE A BLOOD-ALCOHOL CONTENT METRICS FOR OUR SEAT SOBRIETY TESTS ON THE ROADS.

WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO.

HOW IT'S GOING TO IMPACT THE ROLE OUR OFFICERS HAVE TO PLAY WHEN THEY COME UPON A SITUATION WHERE SOMEONE WHO IS IMPAIRED HAS CAUSED AN ACCIDENT OR CAUSED KIND OF A CRIME SITUATION OR OTHER SITUATION OF CONCERN, AND HOW THEY GO ABOUT MAKING A CASE SO PEOPLE WHO ARE MISUSING MARIJUANA CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

AND WHAT THAT MEANS.

WE ALSO HAVE A LOT OF CONCERN ABOUT HOW WE'RE GOING TO KEEP MARIJUANA OUT OF THE HANDS OF YOUTH.

WE KNOW THAT THERE'S STILL A LOT OF SCIENCE THAT NEEDS TO BE CONDUCTED ABOUT HOW IT AFFECTS THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE BRAIN, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, WE DO FIND THAT WHEN SOMEBODY COMES INTO THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, THAT IS USUALLY THE TIME THEY GET TREATMENT.

IF THEY HAVE A PROBLEM, AN ADDICTION, THAT'S THE MOMENT WE CAN HANDLE IT.

WE'RE CONCERNED DECRIMINALIZATION AS WELL AS LEGALIZATION.

>> SENATOR KARL RHOADS, THE SENATE IS TAKING THE LEAD.

YOU'VE GOT A BILL, HAVE YOU MOVED OUT OF YOUR COMMITTEE ALREADY THAT WOULD LEGALIZE RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA?

HOW ARE YOU BALANCING THESE DIFFERENT ARGUMENTS?

>> NO, THERE IS A BILL THAT'S STILL ALIVE IN MY COMMITTEE.

WITH WAYS AND MEANS.

I BELIEVE WE'RE GOING TO HEAR IT.

I THINK IT'S -- NOT HEAR BUT DO DECISION-MAKING ON IT.

YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK THAT PROBABLY WHERE I DIFFER FROM THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS THAT WE HAVE QUITE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE DEALING WITH PAKALOLO BECAUSE IT'S BASICALLY UNIVERSALLY AVAILABLE NOW.

WE ALREADY HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES ON THE ROADS, AND WE ALREADY HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO TREAT PEOPLE.

I HAD A TENTH GRADER I USED TO REPRESENT THE AREA AROUND FARRINGTON HIGH SCHOOL.

A 10TH GRADER OUR THERE SAID, I CAN GET POT ANY TIME I WANT.

TO ME, THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS I THINK WE NEED TO REGULATE AND TAX.

I'D RATHER HAVE THE SITUATION WHERE A SUBSTANCE IS PROBLEMATIC AND ISN'T PARTICULARLY GOOD FOR YOU.

THE QUESTION IS HOW YOU MANAGE IT?

RIGHT NOW, I AGREE WITH NIKOS THAT GREEN HARVEST, IT'S STILL 100% AVAILABLE.

WE NEED TO TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

>>Daryl: REPRESENTATIVE, YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE, AND WHAT DO YOU BRING TO THIS CONVERSATION?

WHAT ARE YOUR CONCERN ABOUT LEGALIZING MARIJUANA?

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON THE SHOW.

BEFORE I WAS A LEGISLATOR, AS A MOM AND FORMER EDUCATOR, I HAVE GRAVE CONCERNS.

I ALWAYS WEIGH THE COST BENEFITS.

I HAVE TO AGREE WITH A.G, CONNERS.

LEGALIZING MARIJUANA HAS DEEP COSTS FOR OUR SOCIETY THAT WILL FAR OUTWEIGH THE TAX REVENUE.

I CAN'T IMAGINE.

I CAN'T IMAGINE OUR KEIKI BEING EXPOSED TO THIS.

LOTS OF RESEARCH SHOWS OUR CHILD'S BRAIN IS NOT FULLY DEVELOPED UNTIL THE AGE 25.

THAT WILL BE FOUR YEARS AFTER LEGALIZE THE MARIJUANA WILL BE ALLOWED AT 21 YEARS OLD.

THAT SHOULD BE ALLOWED.

THERE'S EVIDENCE OF HOW IT AFFECTS COGNITIVE LEARNING, MOTOR SKILLS AND COORDINATION.

BEING A MOM OF A 13-YEAR OLD AND AN 8-YEAR-OLD, I HAVE GRAVE CONCERNS.

IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO SAY WE'RE GOING TO LEGALIZE IT TO GET THE REVENUE.

AND NOT REALLY THINK ABOUT THE NEGATIVE IMPACT IT WILL HAVE ON THE YOUTH.

>>Daryl: LET ME ASK NIKOS FROM DRUG POLICY FORUM, WHAT'S BEEN THE OTHER STATES.

HOW MANY OTHER STATES HAVE DONE THIS?

AND HAVE THESE CONCERNS PLAYED OUT, THE ONES BEING BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION BY REPRESENTATIVE OKIMOTO AND ATTORNEY GENERAL CONNORS?

>> OFFICIALLY, 15 STATES ARE NOW ADULT USE STATES, BUT FOUR OF THOSE STATES -- SOUTH DAKOTA, MONTANA, ARIZONA, NEW JERSEY JUST CAME ONBOARD WITH THE ELECTION RESULTS.

WHAT EXPERIENCES HAVE SHOWN IN COLORADO, FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH WAS ONE OF THE EARLY STATES TO LEGALIZE IS THERE HASN'T REALLY BEEN MUCH OF AN IMPACT ON THE ROADS OR THE YOUTHS.

THERE WAS A BIT OF A DECLINE IN ADOLESCENT USE OF CANNABIS AFTER LEGALIZATION.

WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IMPACT ON YOUTH, WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT CANNABIS AS SCHEDULED ONE DRUG, AND IT BEING ON SCHEDULE ONE IS REALLY PROBLEMATIC BECAUSE IT IMPEDES SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH INTO CANNABIS.

I'M VERY HAPPY THAT THE LEGISLATURE IN 2019 PASSED HCR 89.

WHICH CALLS UPON CONGRESS TO DESCHEDULE CANNIBIS AND RELATED BUSINESSES, WHICH I KNOW THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS ISSUED A LETTER OF SUPPORT FOR.

>>Daryl: LET ME TURN TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

OUR FIRST QUESTION FROM A VIEWER.

MS. CONNORS, NOT ENOUGH DATA AVAILABLE.

HOW ABOUT LOOKING AT DATA WERE STATES WHERE IT HAS BEEN MADE LEGAL.

WHAT CALAMITIES OR POSITIVES HAVE OCCURRED?

AND RESPOND TO WHAT IS THE EXPERIENCE FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE?

>> SURE.

LET ME START WITH THE SCHEDULE ONE ISSUE.

THAT IS A ISSUE WE RAISED.

WE DO RAISE CONCERNS ABOUT THE -- FED MIGHT BE MOVING IN A CERTAIN DIRECTION.

MIGHT CREATE SOME MORE SYNERGY IN THE FUTURE.

THIS IS STILL FEDERALLY A PROBLEM, AND ILLEGAL CREATES ISSUES FOR US AS A STATE.

THE DATA COMING OUT OF COLORADO, WHICH I BELIEVE WAS THE FIRST STATE TO LEGALIZE IN 2012 IS QUITE ALARMING.

WE'VE GOT DATA THAT TALKS ABOUT MARIJUANA RELATED TRAFFIC DEATHS INCREASED 151%.

ALL COLORADO TRAFFIC DEATHS INCREASED BY 35%.

WE HAVE ROCKY MOUNTAIN HIGH INTENSITY DRUG TRAFFICKING DATA THAT REPORTS THAT, I BELIEVE, I SAID MARIJUANA TRAFFIC DEATH INCREASED 192% AFTER LEGALIZATION.

WE SAW SIMILAR TRENDS IN WASHINGTON.

39.1% OF DRIVERS ADMITTED TO DRIVING WITHIN THREE HOURS OF USING MARIJUANA.

PART OF THE CONCERN IS WE DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND HOW CERTAINLY DOSING OF MARIJUANA AFFECTS PEOPLE'S ABILITY TO DRIVE.

WE HAVE AN IDEA HOW IT WORK WHEN THERE'S ALCOHOL.

BLOOD-ALCOHOL CONTENT, .08.

DATA COMING TO US FROM OUR FEDERAL TRAFFIC AND DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION THAT RAISES A LOT OF CONCERNS, ESPECIALLY FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT.

>>Daryl: I'LL GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO FOLLOW UP ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHOSE LIVES ARE AFFECTED BY THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OF THIS SUBSTANCE.

PEOPLE JAM JAILS, SO IN HAWAII IN PARTICULAR, DO WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE GOING TO JAIL FOR MARIJUANA?

>> MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL, THAT IS NOT A PRIORITY PROSECUTION IN TERMS OF USER AMOUNTS.

IF YOU HAVE ANOTHER SET OF CRIMINAL CHARGES BROUGHT, POSSIBLY THERE MIGHT BE A MARIJUANA CHARGE BUT IT'S NOT USUALLY A CHARGE.

FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OUTLINES HOW THE FEDERAL PROSECUTING HAPPENING.

ON STATE SIDE, IT'S NOT PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING USER AMOUNTS OR TRAFFICKING AT LOW LEVELS A MAIN TARGET OF WHAT LAW ENFORCEMENT IS AFTER.

AND IN 2019, WE DID HAVE DECRIMINALIZATION.

THREE GROUNDS OR LESS, YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY A FINE, AND YOU WON'T BE ENTERED INTO THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AT ALL.

WE DON'T SEE THAT IT IS A HARDENED AREA OF PROSECUTION OR INVESTIGATION RIGHT NOW.

>>Daryl: SENATOR RHOADS, IF YOU WANT TO RESPOND TO ANY OF THAT, GO AHEAD.

BUT LIKE TO GET INTO A LITTLE BIT OF, WHAT IS THE INCENTIVE AND MONEY PIECE?

WE'VE TALKED DURING INTRODUCTION, MAYBE THIS IS A GOOD YEAR BECAUSE WE NEED MONEY.

HOW WILL THE GOVERNMENT GET MONEY OUT OF PROPOSALS OUT THERE?

>> I THINK THERE IS A MONEY PIECE IF WE REGULATE IN TAX, IT'S ALWAYS A TRICKY QUESTION.

YOU TAX IT TOO HIGH, IT DRIVES PEOPLE BACK INTO THE BLACK MARKET ANYWAY.

IT'S NOT A HOME RUN KIND OF DOLLAR AMOUNT.

I'VE HEARD MAYBE 50 OR $60 MILLION.

NUMBERS ARE CHANGE AND GETTING BETTER FOR THE STATE BUDGET.

WHEN WE WERE REALLY THOUGHT THINGS WERE GOING TO BE BAD BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC, WE WERE LOOKING AT $1.4 BILLION A YEAR, AS I RECALL.

SO $60 MILLION, IT'S BETTER THAN THE SHARP STICK IN THE EYE, BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

I VIEW IT PROBABLY -- THE PARADIGM I'M LOOKING AT IS CIGARETTES.

WE TAX CIGARETTES HEAVILY, BUT WE SPEND THAT MONEY ON EDUCATION ON EVILS OF CIGARETTES.

THERE ARE CERTAIN SITUATION WHERE USING PAKALOLO IS BENEFICIAL.

WE HAVE THE MEDICAL MARIJUANA PROGRAM.

IT HAS ITS DOWN SIDES, ESPECIALLY FOR YOUNGER PEOPLE.

AGAIN, I COME BACK TO WE NEED TO MANAGE THIS AS SMART AS WE CAN, AND I DON'T THINK WE ARE AT THE MOMENT.

>> REPRESENTATIVE OKIMOTO, YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT, THE MONEY PART.

IF THEY DON'T GET MONEY FROM MARIJUANA, THEY MIGHT TAX SOMETHING ELSE.

YOU DON'T WANT THEM TO DO THAT EITHER.

>> CORRECT.

USUALLY I'M NOT ONE FOR TAXATION.

I REALIZE WE'RE IN A YEAR -- COVID.

WE, AS A GOVERNMENT, NEED REVENUE.

I THINK TO USE THIS EXAMPLE AS WE'RE GOING TO GENERATE REVENUE IS INCORRECT.

WE THINK OUR ESTIMATED TAX THAT WE'RE GOING TO GENERATE IS ABOUT $28.5 MILLION.

OUR TOTAL BUDGET IS ABOUT $15.52 BILLION.

LESS THAN 0.2%.

COLORADO IS THE FIRST STATE THAT DID IT IN 2012.

WE HAVE THE MOST DATA FROM COLORADO.

I BELIEVE FOR THEIR FISCAL YEAR 2019 OPERATING BUDGET, THEY BROUGHT IN ABOUT -- THE TAX REVENUE FROM MARIJUANA REPRESENTS LESS THAN 1% THEIR REVENUE GENERATED FROM MARIJUANA BEING LEGALIZED.

WE KNOW THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO SEE REVENUE RIGHT AWAY.

IF THIS HAPPENS, IT TAKE TWO PLUS YEARS.

WHEN IT DOES COME TO FRUITION, RESEARCH SHOWS THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE ANYWHERE WHAT WE NEED.

AGAIN, THE COST OUTWEIGHS THE BENEFITS.

COLORADO HAS BEEN THE TOP 3 FOR THE MOST SUCCESSFUL STATE BEHIND WASHINGTON AND CALIFORNIA, I HAVEN'T SEEN RESEARCH THAT SHOWS THAT THE PROJECTED REVENUE BROUGHT IN ANYWHERE WHAT WE NEED -- HAS BEEN MET WITH WHAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT.

>>Daryl: NIKOS, MAKE THE MONEY ARGUMENT.

WHAT DO YOU SEE AS HAPPENING?

IT SOUNDS LIKE THE MONEY PART HAS BEEN DISAPPOINTING?

OTHER STATES.

>> WHEN TALK ABOUT POTENTIAL REVENUE, THAT'S ONE PART OF THE EQUATION.

WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT HIGH QUALITY JOBS THAT WILL BE CREATED IN THE AGRICULTURE SECTOR, IN THE DISTRIBUTION SECTOR AND IN SO MANY OTHER AREAS WHERE HAWAII WILL COME A PREMIER DESTINATION AND A PREMIER BRAND ON THE GLOBAL CANNABIS INDUSTRY.

ANOTHER THING TO CONSIDER, ENDING CANNABIS PROHIBITION WILL EFFECTIVELY END HOPEFULLY THE ARREST OF 1,000 PEOPLE PER YEAR IN THIS STATE WHO ENTER THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

IT KEEPS PEOPLE TRAPPED IN PROBATION AND PATROL.

WE HAVE THE HIGHEST AVERAGE TERMS OF PROBATION IN THE NATION IN ALMOST FIVE YEARS.

BECAUSE CANNABIS CAN BE DETECTED ABOUT A MONTH AFTER EVEN CASUAL USE, ONE-TIME USE, THIS IS PROBLEMATIC.

IN TERMS OF FOREGONE COST AND INCARCERATION AND COST TO THE LEGAL SYSTEM, ADULT USE CANNABIS IS A WIN-WIN.

IT WILL GENERATE ABOUT $25 TO $30 MILLION.

I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE -- >>Daryl: LET ME ASK BY PUTTING THE ARGUMENT THAT WAY, SOUNDS LIKE MONEY IS NOT THE REASON FOR DOING THIS.

YOU'RE MOSTLY SUPPORTING THIS BECAUSE OF THE CRIMINALITY ISSUES AND OVEREMPHASIS ON ENFORCEMENT?

>> WE APPROACH IT PRIMARILY AS A HEALTH ISSUE AND ALSO AS AN EQUITY ISSUE.

RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A KAPAKAHI SYSTEM WHERE SUBSTANCE USE IS TREATED THROUGH THE CRIMINAL SYSTEM.

WHILE NOT AFFORDING COMMUNITY BASED TREATMENT.

WE UNDERSTAND THAT MONEY IS TIGHT SO WE STAND WITH THE AMERICAN HEALTH ASSOCIATION, GLOBAL COMMISSION ON DRUG POLICY AND OTHERS WHO SAY, WE NEED HEALTHCARE.

WE DON'T NEED MORE JAILS AND PRISONS.

WE DON'T NEED TO CRIMINALIZE MORE NATIVE HAWAIIAN YOUTH, 300 TO 400 PER YEAR.

>>Daryl: LET ME STOP AND GO BACK TO THE SENATOR AND REPRESENTATIVE ON THIS.

I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED THIS YEAR PARTLY BECAUSE THE MONEY ARGUMENT.

THE FIRST SERIOUS CONVERSATION I'VE HEARD ABOUT GAMBLING IN THE LEGISLATURE FOR A WHILE.

I THINK SENATOR RHOADS, YOU'VE GOT A LOTTERY BILL.

QUESTION FROM JANELLE ON FACEBOOK, YES, WE GOT CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.

MAY AS WELL BRING JOBS AND BRING GAMING INTO THE BACK ROOMS.

WE ALREADY HAVE THESE VICES.

SHOULDN'T WE BE REGULATING THEM AND TAXING THEM INSTEAD OF TRYING TO WIPE THEM OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH, WHICH WE'RE NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO.

REPRESENTATIVE OKIMOTO, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO STOP IT, YOU MIGHT AS WELL TAX IT, REGULATE IT.

>> PERSONALLY, I AM NOT A PROPONENT OR SUPPORTER OF LET'S ENCOURAGE THAT.

THAT'S NOT SOMETHING I'M IN FAVOR OF.

WHAT WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND IS WHAT THE FACTS ARE.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE LEGALIZATION IN OTHER STATES, IT'S NOT AS -- THE BENEFITS ARE NOT GOING TO BE THAT CLEAR.

MAYBE NOT AT ALL.

WE TALKING ABOUT LAW ENFORCEMENT.

WE STILL ARE NOT ABLE TO DO THIS.

WE'RE PUTTING OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT IN GREAT DANGER.

I SPOKE WITH AN OFFICER THIS WEEK, AND ONE OF THE THINGS HE SHARED IS THEY HAVE GRAVE CONCERN THAT THEY'RE NOT EQUIPPED FOR THIS.

BEING ABLE TO ASSESS SOMEBODY AND ARREST, THEY'RE NOT TRAINED.

IT'S DIFFERENT FROM A DUI.

THERE'S A BREATHALYZER AND BLOOD TEST WHETHER THIS PERSON HAS THAT SUBSTANCE.

MARIJUANA IS NOT.

FOR THEM TO BE EXPECTED TO GO OUT AND ASSESS AND FIGURE OUT IF SOMEBODY IS UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF MARIJUANA, THAT'S MORE MONEY WE'LL HAVE TO INVEST.

WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE A SHORTAGE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS.

TO PUT THIS ON THEM NOW, IT'S A GREAT CONCERN OF THEIRS.

MAYBE PEOPLE THINK IT'S HAPPENING AND ALLOW IT.

BENEFITS DO NOT OUTWEIGH THE COSTS.

>>Daryl: SENATOR RHOADS, YOU THINK THESE THINGS ARE GOING TO BE INEVITABLE?

IT'S A MATTER OF GETTING AHEAD OF THE TRAIN A LITTLE BIT?

>> NO, I DON'T THINK IT'S INEVITABLE.

I DO THINK THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT COMPARED TO WHAT?

PAKALOLO IS ALREADY 100% AVAILABLE IN HAWAII.

ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO BUY IT CAN BUY IT.

SOMEHOW THIS NOTION THAT KEEP IT ILLEGAL, NO ONE'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET IT, AND ALL THE NEGATIVE EFFECTS, WHICH THERE ARE SOME, I ADMIT.

ALL THE NEGATIVE AFFECTS ARE GOING TO BE TAKEN CARE OF.

THAT'S NOT TRUE.

ANYBODY CAN GET IT.

YOU GOT TO MANAGE A PROBLEMATIC SUBSTANCE.

I CLASS IT IN LIKE NIKOS WITH ALCOHOL AND CIGARETTES.

IF I WAS JUST GOING TO BAN ONE COMPLETELY, LIKE IF YOU COULD GET RID OF IT, IT WOULD BE CIGARETTES.

CIGARETTES KILL HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE EVERY YEAR.

IT WASN'T UNTIL, LIKE, A MONTH AGO THAT COVID PANDEMIC KILLED MORE PEOPLE IN THE LAST YEAR THAN CIGARETTES HAD KILLED IN THE UNITED STATES.

SO I THINK IT'S JUST -- IT'S WISHFUL THINKING TO SAY, KEEP IT BANNED.

THERE'S NO PAKALOLO PROBLEM.

THERE IS A PAKALOLO PROBLEM.

WE HAVE IT NOW.

THE DIFFERENCE IS, IS THAT WE DON'T GUARANTEE THE QUALITY OF IT TO ANYBODY.

THERE'S NO CONSUMER CONTROLS, AND THERE'S NO MONEY COMING IN FROM IT TO THE GOVERNMENT TO PROVIDE FOR EDUCATIONAL -- EDUCATION FOR WHAT THE BAD EFFECTS ARE LIKE WE DO FOR CIGARETTES.

IT'S UNREALISTIC.

KEEPING THINGS THE WAY WE ARE, EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE.

NO.

WE KEEP THINGS THE WAY WE ARE, EVERYBODY'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET PAKALOLO.

>>Daryl: ATTORNEY GENERAL CONNORS, GO AHEAD.

>> NOT EVERYONE CAN GET IT NOW.

IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT IS -- YOU CAN'T WALK INTO LIKE A LIQUOR STORE AND GET IT.

IT IS STILL SOMETHING THAT IS NOT AVAILABLE TO KIDS ON A FRIDAY NIGHT WHO WANT TO TRY TO GO INTO RECREATIONAL AREA AND GET THE DRUG.

NOT TO SAY IT'S NOT AVAILABLE THROUGH CERTAIN ILLICIT VENUES.

IT IS.

NIKOS SAID WE HAVE I THINK ONE THOUSAND KIDS IN 2017 CAME INTO THE SYSTEM WERE TREATED.

I SHOULD SAY RECEIVED TREATMENT.

IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT IS WIDELY AVAILABLE, AND THAT WILL CHANGE.

THAT LEADS ME TO THE OTHER HAT THAT I WEAR, WHICH IS CHIEF LEGAL OFFICER, WHERE WE TRY TO WORK WITH THE STATE AGENCIES TO SEE WHO REGULATED SYSTEM MIGHT LOOK LIKE.

WE'VE GOT MEDICAL CANNABIS.

THAT IS A VERY, VERY MASSIVE BUILDUP.

A TIGHTLY RUN SHIP, BUT IT'S A HUGE BUILDUP.

IT'S VERTICAL FROM THE BEGINNING TO END.

WE NEED TO THINK WHAT IT IS GOING TO BE IN TERMS OF RESOURCES THE STATE IS GOING TO PUT TOWARDS THAT.

I SEE THAT IN SOME BILLS PROPOSED.

DEPARTMENT OF TAXATION.

A LOT OF OTHER STATES DID IT BY BALLOT INITIATIVE.

THE GOVERNMENT HAD TO FIGURE IT OUT AFTER IT WAS LEGAL.

THAT WASN'T A GREAT IDEA.

2019, WE GOT A TASK FORCE PUT TOGETHER.

SENATOR RHOADS IS ON THE TASK FORCE.

THAT'S A BETTER WAY.

WE CAN THINK THROUGH WHAT THE REGULATION LOOKS LIKE.

THERE'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS -- ZONING, TAXATION, AGE LIMITS, HOW WE'RE GOING TO LICENSE IT.

SHOULD IT BE STATE OR COUNTY?

RIGHT NOW LIQUOR IS DONE THROUGH THE COUNTY.

SOME STATES ADDED THAT TO THEIR DEPARTMENTS LIQUOR AND CANNIBIS.

WE HAVE A LOT WE CAN LEARN.

WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT WHAT KIND OF BUILD-OUT AND WHO IT WOULD BE HARD IN THAT CONVERSATION.

>>Daryl: ON THAT, AND I GOT TO GET TO THESE QUESTIONS.

VIEWERS ARE STARTING TO PAY ATTENTION.

DOES OUR MEDICAL MARIJUANA SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE NOW PAY FOR ITSELF?

THAT IS FEES AND CHARGES AGAINST THE DISPENSARIES AND SO ON?

DO THEY COVER ALL THE COST OF REGULATIONS?

AND DO THEY BRING -- DOES THAT INDUSTRY BRING MONEY?

I THINK THAT WAS PART OF THE PROMISE, CLARE CONNORS?

>> THAT WOULD BE A BETTER QUESTION FOR DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND ONE OF THE LEGISLATORS WHO -- OR NIKOS.

>>Daryl: OKAY.

NIKOS SEEMS TO BE NODDING HIS HEAD.

GO AHEAD.

>> WHAT WE'VE SEEN FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH IS THE NEED FOR MORE STAFFING AND MORE RESOURCES.

THE MEDICAL CANNABIS MARKET HERE IS VERY LIMITED.

I BELIEVE IT'S ABOUT 30,000 REGISTERED PATIENTS.

YEAH, THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE PROVISION OF OVERSIGHT REGULATION AND EDUCATION.

AND NOT JUST MEDICAL BUT FOR ADULT USE.

AND I TRUST THAT FAMILIES WILL MAKE DECISION.

MOMS LIKE REPRESENTATIVE OKIMOTO WILL BE ABLE TO GOVERN THE CONDUCT OF HER CHILDREN IN HER HOUSEHOLD.

WE NEED EDUCATION, WE NEED SCIENTIST-BASED EDUCATION FOR EVERYONE.

ADOLESCENTS AND ADULTS.

YOU CAN GET VERY, VERY IMPAIRED IF YOU'RE NOT CAREFUL, AND PEOPLE WHO ARE STARTING TO START LOW AND GO SLOW.

START WITH 2.5 GRAMS.

DON'T START WITH 50 OR 100.

AND NURSES CAN FIGURE OUT HOW -- WE GOT SOME MATERIAL.

>>Daryl: I GOT TO DO THESE QUESTIONS.

WE'RE ABOUT HALFWAY THROUGH A BUNCH OF QUESTIONS.

SENATOR RHOADS BROUGHT UP A CHOICE OF EVILS.

I'D RATHER GET RID OF CIGARETTES THAN MARIJUANA BASICALLY.

WE GOT TWO QUESTIONS.

ONE FROM KAREN, ONE FROM VALERIE.

BOTH SAY NOT GOOD FOR YOUNG PEOPLE BUT ADULTS, SAME AS LIQUOR.

I THINK IT SHOULD BE LEGAL.

COMPARED TO ALCOHOL, CANNABIS USERS ARE MORE CALM.

WOULD INCREASE REVENUE.

ALCOHOL SHOULD BE ILLEGAL INSTEAD.

REPRESENTATIVE OKIMOTO, YOU WANT TO TAKE A SHOT AT THAT?

WE HAVE MANY EVILS IN OUR SOCIETY.

SHOULD WE BE CRACKING DOWN ON MORE OF THE HARMFUL ONES INSTEAD OF MARIJUANA?

>> I THINK NIKOS BROUGHT UP A GREAT POINT.

AS WELL A.G. CONNORS.

BOTH HAVE TESTIFIED WE'RE NOT READY FOR IT.

I'M A STRONG ADVOCATE FOR PROPERLY EDUCATING OUR COMMUNITY.

AGAIN, I HOPE, YOU HOPE, LIKE NIKOS SAID, AS A MOM, I'M GOING TO MAKE RIGHT CHOICES FOR MY CHILDREN.

IT'S IGNORANT.

DO IT RESPONSIBLY AS A CHOICE, BUT THAT LEAVES THE DOOR OPEN FOR CHILDREN TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS IT.

ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP IN THE COMMITTEES I'VE BEEN, -- AND A GREAT CONCERN IS HOW MARIJUANA IS LACED WITH FLAVORS.

WE KNOW THAT YOUTH IS A SERIOUS ISSUES NOW.

I SEE A STRING OF CONCERNS THAT ARE STEMMING FROM SAYING, IT'S NOT THAT BAD.

LET'S ALLOW IT.

WE DON'T HAVE THE PROPER EDUCATION.

PEOPLE ARE NOT PROPERLY EDUCATION ON HOW THIS IS AN ADDICTIVE DRUG.

TO SAY LET'S START SMALL AND MANAGE IT, I THINK THAT'S IRRESPONSIBLE.

AS A FORMER TEACHER AND PARENT, I CAN'T SEE HOW WE CAN SAY LET'S DO A LITTLE BIT AND HOPEFULLY EVERYBODY WILL BE OKAY.

SO WE GET PARENTS ARE USING IT.

CHILDREN WILL BE EXPOSED TO IT.

THERE'S EVIDENCE HOW THIS WILL AFFECT THEIR LEARNING AND DEVELOPMENT AND BEING ABLE TO GROW UP INTO ADULTHOOD.

IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE AS SAYING IT'S NOT AS HARMFUL AS ALCOHOL.

WHEN WE LEGALIZE MARIJUANA, IT BECOMES -- ONCE THAT STARTS, IT BECOMES NORMALIZED.

>>Daryl: LET ME -- SORRY TO INTERRUPT.

>> SORRY.

>>Daryl: YOU'RE FINE.

THESE ARE A LOT OF QUESTIONS.

IT'S GOING TO BE A CHALLENGE TO FIGURE OUT WHERE TO GO NEXT.

THIS IDEA, ONE PERSON ON FACEBOOK SAYS, NEW FRONTIERS PREDICTING FEDERALLY LEGAL MARIJUANA SUGGESTING NATIONWIDE LEGALIZATION COULD GENERATE A MILLION JOBS BY 2025.

I HAD SOMEONE ELSE SAYING, IT CREATES THIS HEALTHY INDUSTRY.

SO IS THERE A VISION, NIKOS, WHY DON'T YOU START WITH THIS, A VISION OF A MARIJUANA INDUSTRY IN THIS STATE?

WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE?

IS IT PIG FARMS EMPLOYING A LOT OF PEOPLE?

GENERATING TONS OF MARIJUANA GOING TO TOURISTS AND PEOPLE SHOWING UP IN MAUI WOWEE OR WHATEVER.

IS THAT THE VISION OF WHAT LONG TERM MARIJUANA LOOKS LIKE?

>> IF WE GET TO THE POINT WHERE THE STATE LEGALIZES IT HAS TO BE I FEEL CAREFUL.

THERE ARE MULTI-- >>Daryl: SORRY.

WHAT IS VERTICAL INTEGRATION?

>> A SINGLE BUSINESS ENTITY HAS RESPONSIBILITY, WHETHER IT'S CANNABIS FLOWER OR A MANUFACTURED CANNABIS PROBLEM THAT MAYBE AN EDIBLE ONE DAY.

THERE ARE ALSO COMPANIES OPERATING IN MANY STATES LIKE PURE LEAF AND A HOST OF OTHERS.

AN EMERGING CANNABIS ECONOMY HERE IN HAWAII ALLOWS SMALL BUSINESS PERSON TO PARTICIPATE AT EVERY LEVEL.

FROM THE SOIL, PROBABLY TO INDOOR GROWTH TO DISTRIBUTION TO PACKAGING TO SALES.

TO BUSINESSES, INSURANCE, A LITTLE BIT MORE BANKING ACTIVITY.

AND TOURISM.

LET'S NOT FORGET TOURISM ONCE THE REST OF THE NATION GETS ONBOARD.

IT COULD BECOME A DESTINATION FOR THAT KIND OF TOURISM.

>>Daryl: IT WOULD BE PARADISE.

SO SENATOR RHOADS, IS THAT PART OF THE THINKING AMONG THE SUPPORTERS OF RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA IN THE LEGISLATURE?

WE'RE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT TAXING YOU KNOW, THE END SALE.

WE'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT JOBS THAT CAN BE CREATED.

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE ARE ENVISIONING?

>> I THINK THAT'S PART OF IT, BUT I THINK THE THING IS DRIVING THE LEGISLATURE IS THE SENSE THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS NO WORSE THAN A BEER, AND IF YOU'RE AN ADULT, WHY SHOULDN'T YOU BE ABLE TO PARTAKE IN SOMETHING THAT MAY HAVE NEGATIVE EFFECTS BUT IT'S NOT WORSE THAN ALCOHOL.

BUT THE OTHER STUFF, ESPECIALLY AT A TIME OF ECONOMIC HARDSHIP, YEAH, THE ECONOMICS ARE IMPORTANT.

BUT I DON'T SEE IT BEING A GAME CHANGER IN TERMS OF FROM NOW ON, HAWAII, HALF THE ECONOMY IS GOING TO BE PRODUCING PAKALOLO.

I DON'T SEE THAT.

>>Daryl: AT THE RISK OF SOUNDING LIKE AN ADVOCATE, YOU TALK ABOUT ECONOMIC DIVERSIFICATION.

IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE HALF, BUT A TENTH.

>> YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO COMPARED TO WHAT?

RIGHT NOW, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE PAKALOLO THAT COMES INTO THE STATE COMES FROM.

>>Daryl: PROBABLY GENERATES JOBS.

>> I'M GUESSING IT ALREADY GENERATES JOBS.

DIFFERENCE IS UNDER A LEGAL PROGRAM AND CURRENTLY PRODUCED ARE, IT SEEMS LIKELY UNLIKELY ANYBODY'S PUTTING ON THEIR 1040, YES, $45,000 FROM THE PRODUCTION OF PAKALOLO.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE DELTA IS BETWEEN WHAT THE ILLEGAL PART OF THE ECONOMY BEING IF WE HAD A LEGAL ONE.

IT PROBABLY WOULD GET BIGGER, BUT I'M NOT SURE WE'D GET MUCH BIGGER.

>> ATTORNEY GENERAL CLARE CONNORS, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT A MARIJUANA INDUSTRY, YOU PROBABLY HAVE A DIFFERENT IMAGE.

>> RIGHT.

FROM THE FEDERAL LEVEL, THAT'S PRESENTLY HOW THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT REGARDS IT.

IT'S STILL HIGHLY ILLEGAL.

IF YOU'RE BANKS, AS WE TOUCHED ON, YOU COULD BE INVOLVEMENT IN MONEY LAUNDERING.

THERE ARE CONCERNS THAT ARE RAISED WITH RESPECT TO HOW WE WOULD INTERFACE WITH THE FEDERAL MODEL.

IF YOU LOOK AT HEMP, THERE'S BEEN DEFINITE CHANGES AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

TO INCREASE LEGAL PRODUCTION.

WE'RE TRYING TO WALK AND STEP WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SO WE CAN DO THIS IN A WAY THAT'S PILOTED AND MAKES SENSE AND DOESN'T REAL THE LEVEL OF CONFUSION.

THAT'S WHERE WE COULD START SEEK MORE OF THIS CONVERSATION.

IT REALLY DOES HAVE TO HAPPEN ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

MEDICAL CANNABIS IS ALLOWED BECAUSE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DECIDED WE COULD DO THAT, RIGHT?

>>Daryl: WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN -- AND I'LL LET THE OTHER PANELISTS RESPOND.

IN TERMS OF THE ILLEGAL INDUSTRY THAT DEVELOPS ALONGSIDE THE LEGAL INDUSTRY.

ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WE HAD WHEN WE LEGALIZED MEDICAL MARIJUANA, LAW ENFORCEMENT COULDN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE FROM A DISTANCE BETWEEN THE ILLEGAL VERSUS LEGAL.

ILLEGALS COULD THRIVE BECAUSE IT WAS HARDER FOR ENFORCEMENT.

ATTORNEY GENERAL CONNORS, IN TERMS OF ILLEGAL ALONGSIDE A LEGAL INDUSTRY?

>> RIGHT.

IT'S WHAT WE ARE SEEING SOME OF THE OTHER STATES ENCOUNTERING.

LAW ENFORCEMENT, IN STATES LIKE OREGON, AS THEY HAVE MORE PRODUCTION OF LEGAL MARIJUANA, THEY'RE ALSO SEEING AN INCREASE IN THE ILLEGAL AS WELL.

AND THEY'RE STARTING TO SEE WHEN THEIR MARKET IS SATURATED, IT BLEEDS OVER TO OTHER MARKETS.

IT'S NOT A DIRECTLY CORRELATIVE CONVERSATION.

WHEN YOU HAVE MORE OF IT BEING GROWN, YOU'RE ALSO GOING TO HAVE MORE ILLEGAL STUFF BEING GROWN.

THERE'S GOING TO BE MORE DEMAND.

A VERY DIFFICULT TASK PLACED ON LAW ENFORCEMENT TO DO WHAT YOU SAID.

TO DISTINGUISH WHAT'S GOOD AND BAD.

AND THAT GETS BACK TO THE REGULATION.

HOW ARE WE GOING TO DO WITH LICENSING?

WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WHEN YOU DON'T COMPORT?

WHAT ARE GOING TO BE THE REPERCUSSIONS?

SOME OF THAT WE SAW WITH THE HEMP BILL.

A LOT OF THE CONVERSATION GOING ON WITH THE LEGISLATION.

HOW ARE WE GOING TO MAKE THIS FAIR SO YOU HAVE AN INCENTIVE TO GROW LEGAL HEMP AND TO DO ALL THE CHALLENGING THINGS THAT ARE INVOLVED IN HEMP PRODUCTION.

SO WE'VE GOT TO PUT THE INCENTIVES IN THE RIGHT PLACE, AND I DON'T THINK THEY'RE THERE YET.

>>Daryl: NIKOS, HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT PART OF THE DISCUSSION THAT ACTUALLY A LEGAL INDUSTRY COULD PROMOTE AN ILLEGAL INDUSTRY?

>> WELL, I THINK WE SEE A LOT OF THE SHADOWY COMMON RIGHT NOW.

ONE OF THE EXPERIENCES THAT CALIFORNIA HAS WITH ITS INITIAL STARTUP IS IT WAS CANNABIS WAS TOO OVERREGULATED, TOO OVERPRICED.

IT BASICALLY PUSHED PEOPLE INTO THE SHADOW MARKET, AND THAT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT.

I WOULD THINK THAT OUR REPUBLICAN MEMBER ON THE PANEL HERE WOULD BE FOR KEEPING TAXES AND REGULATIONS LOW IN THIS EMERGING INDUSTRY.

>>Daryl: ACTUALLY -- >> AND PAY CLOSE ATTENTION.

>>Daryl: I WAS ABOUT TO ASK ALMOST THE SAME QUESTION BUT NOT QUITE.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS AS A REPUBLICAN, WE EXPECT THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO SEE A DIVERSE ECONOMY.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS AS A JOB GENERATOR?

ONE QUESTION FROM A VIEWER, CANNABIS LEGISLATION IS THE KEY TO ECONOMIC RECOVERY.

MUCH LIKE ENDING ALCOHOL PROHIBITION HELPED US OUT OF THE GREAT DEPRESSION.

NOT SURE THAT HAPPENED BUT WHEN YOU HEAR TALK ABOUT A BIG INDUSTRY AROUND MARIJUANA, WHAT GOES THROUGH YOUR MIND?

>> YOU'RE ASKING ME?

>>Daryl: YEAH.

>> I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN FOR BUSINESS, PRO JOBS.

I KIND OF WANT TO GO BACK A LITTLE BIT TO WHAT A.G. CONNORS MENTIONED ABOUT THE BLACK MARKET.

WHAT I HEAR IS IF WE LEGALIZE IT, IT WILL ELIMINATE THE BLACK MARKET AND CREATE LEGAL JOBS.

RESEARCH THOUGH THAT THAT'S NOT TRUE.

SO YOU GET MORE ILLEGAL ACTIVITY GETTING PUMPED OUT TO OTHER STATES.

I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THAT BUT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT JOBS, I THINK COVID SHOWED US THE WEAKNESSES OF OUR STATE ECONOMY WHEN WE WERE SO HEAVILY RELIANT ON TOURISM.

WE'RE SUFFERING FOR IT TODAY.

LIKE I'VE SAID MANY TIMES, COSTS DON'T OUTWEIGH THE BENEFITS.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO SEE THINGS THAT WILL HAPPEN NEGATIVELY ARE GOING TO WEIGH ANY JOB CREATION THAT WE BRING.

FOR ME OUR KEIKI ARE OUR FUTURE.

IF WE'RE HARMING THEM, HOW CAN SAY THAT'S FOR THE BEST OF OUR ECONOMY AND STATE?

I APPRECIATE THE CREATIVE THOUGHTS.

WE NEED TO BE CREATIVE RIGHT NOW, BUT WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, I'LL RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE.

THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO DO IT.

WE DON'T HAVE THE MEANS.

WE NEED TO FIND ANOTHER WAY.

I'M NOT SUPPORT LEGALIZING A SUBSTANCE THAT WILL BE DETRIMENTAL TO OUR COMMUNITIES.

>>Daryl: THIS IS A QUESTION FOR SENATOR RHOADS AND ANYONE ELSE WHO WANTS TO BITE ON IT.

THE QUESTION IS, CAME IN BY E-MAIL, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF OUR POPULATION CURRENTLY USES CANNABIS?

I HAVE TO BE HONEST, WHEN I LOOK AT THIS -- I LOOK AT THIS, IT SEEMS LIKE MOST OF THE PEOPLE CALLING ARE SUPPORTING DECRIMINALIZATION OR LEGALIZATION OF MARIJUANA.

WHAT'S THE POLITICS AT PLAY, SENATOR RHOADS?

IS THERE PRESSURE FROM THE LEGISLATURE TO DO THIS?

JUST FROM PEOPLE WHO LIKE MARIJUANA AND WANT TO MARIJUANA EASIER TO GET?

IS IT VOTES?

ARE THERE VOTES AROUND THIS ISSUE?

WHICH WAY WOULD THEY FALL?

>> I THINK THERE ARE VOTES.

BEHIND THE POPULATION OF THE ELECTORATE IN TERMS OF WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING WITH PAKALOLO.

I THINK I'VE SEEM POLLS THAT'S SAY 60% OF THE PEOPLE SUPPORT RECREATIONAL PAKALOLO IN HAWAII.

ANECDOTALLY, IT'S HARD TO KNOW.

RIGHT NOW IT'S ILLEGAL UNLESS YOU HAVE THE MEDICAL MARIJUANA CARD.

ANECDOTALLY, I HAVE KNOCKED ON TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOORS OVER MY POLITICAL CAREER.

I SMELL PAKALOLO SMOKE PROBABLY MULTIPLY TIMES -- I NEVER TRIED TO KEEP TRACK OF IT, BUT I WOULD SAY EVERY DAY I KNOCK ON DOORS.

I REPRESENT WEALTHY NEIGHBORHOODS IN NUUANU VALLEY TO CHINATOWN AND PALAMA.

I SMELL POT EVERYWHERE.

I DISAGREE WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ABOUT THE AVAILABILITY.

IT'S EVERYWHERE.

BECAUSE OF THAT, IF ENOUGH PEOPLE DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IT DOES BECOME A POLITICAL ISSUE.

WHETHER IT'S GOING TO BE LEGAL OR NOT.

>>Daryl: ATTORNEY GENERAL, YOU ARE A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL, BUT YOU'RE AN APPOINTEE OF A GOVERNMENT.

WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE POLITICS AT PLAY?

DO YOU THINK THIS IS SUCH A POPULAR ISSUE, AT SOME POINT IT'S JUST GOING TO HAPPEN?

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

>> WELL, WE'VE BEEN PREPARED, RIGHT?

YES, WE HAVE THESE LAW ENFORCEMENT CONCERNS, AND WE HAVE TESTIFIED IN THAT CAPACITY AGAINST DECRIMINALIZATION, NOT JUST PER SE BUT BECAUSE OF THE EFFECTS IT HAS ON THE ENTIRE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

AND WANT TO BE SURE WE'RE THINKING THROUGH ALL THE DIFFERENT IMPLICATIONS ON VICTIMS AND ON RESOURCES FOR REHABILITATION AND TREATMENT AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT IN TERMS OF THE POLICY SIDE, I THINK WHERE WE GO FROM HERE IS WE REALLY NEED TO DRILL DOWN ON WHAT WE WANT IT TO LOOK LIKE.

AND HOW WE WANT IT TO BE MANAGED IN OUR STATE.

15 STATES OR HANDFUL OF STATES THAT HAVE DONE IT, THEY HAVE -- IN CALIFORNIA, THERE'S A CALIFORNIA BUREAU OF CANNABIS CONTROL.

IN ALASKA, THE ALASKA MARIJUANA CONTROL BOARD THERE.

IN NEVADA, THE DEPARTMENT OF TAXATION.

SO WE JUST NEED TO THINK THROUGH THE IMPACT IT'S GOING TO HAVE ON THE AGENCIES.

HOW IT'S GOING TO BE REGULATED AND DIFFERENT CONCERNS REPRESENTATIVE OKIMOTO RAISED AND NIKOS RAISED ABOUT HOW WE'RE GOING TO TEACH PEOPLE ABOUT IMPAIRMENT AND OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT TO CHANGE THE WAY THEY APPROACH KEEPING PEOPLE SAFE ON THE ROADS AND IN THE COMMUNITY.

IT'S THE VERY DETAILED CONVERSATION IS GOING TO IMPACT HOW WE LOOK LIKE AT AS A STATE.

WE NEED TO THINK THROUGH WHAT THE GOVERNMENT STRUCTURE IS GOING TO BE.

>>Daryl: INTERESTING TO ME.

WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY, IF THE LEGISLATURE PASSES THIS, GIVE US PLENTY OF TIME AND RESOURCES TO WORK IT UP, BUT WE ARE NOT GOING TO FIGHT THIS TOOTH AND NAIL IF THE LEGISLATURE PASSES THIS.

THE GOVERNOR WOULD HAVE TO DECIDE WHETHER HE'S GOING TO SIGN IT.

IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT THIS BEING A REALITY.

IF NOT THIS YEAR, SOME DAY.

>> MY OFFICE, REPRESENT THE DIFFERENT AGENCIES THAT WOULD BE IMPACTED.

I HAVE DEPUTIES WHO ADVISE THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.

THEY TRY TO WORK THROUGH THOSE ISSUES.

WE HAVE DEPUTIES THAT ADVISE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE WORKING THROUGH THE ISSUES CREATED BY HEMP.

AND WE WORK WITH DCCA AND DEPARTMENT OF TAXATION.

AND THIS IS GOING TO IMPACT OUR WORKPLACE, AS WELL.

IF WE START HAVING PEOPLE WHO ARE IMPAIRED, WE NEED TO THINK HOW IT'S GOING TO MESH WITH THE FEDERAL WORKPLACE SAFETY LAWS AND HOW THAT'S GOING TO AFFECT HOW PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE INTERACTING WITH EACH OTHER AS WELL.

ON THE TASK FORCE, WE HAVE OUR LABOR ATTORNEYS INVOLVED.

WE, AS OUR LEGAL OFFICER ROLE, HAVE BEEN LOOK AT THIS.

SO WE CAN ADVISE OUR AGENCIES AND LEGISLATORS IF THAT'S WHERE THEY'RE TAKING US ON A POLICY LEVEL.

SETTING ASIDE THE POLICY CONCERNS IN THE LAW ENFORCEMENT CAPACITY.

>>Daryl: WE'VE GOT ABOUT EIGHT OR NINE, TEN MINUTES.

>> DARYL, COULD I QUICKLY INTERJECT?

>>Daryl: YES.

>> THERE ARE A GROWING NUMBER OF PUBLIC OFFICIALS OUTSIDE OF THE CAPITOL HAVE ENDORSED CANNABIS, INCLUDING MAUI COUNCIL AND DOUG CHIN HAS COME OUT IN FAVOR.

THERE ARE A LOT OF ISSUES TO BE WORKED OVER, AND WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN TERMS OF NUMBER USE, PEOPLE USING ACCORDING TO YOUTH RISK BEHAVIOR SURVEY, RATES OF HIGH SCHOOL USES DECREASED FROM 22% IN 2009 TO 17% TODAY.

IN 2019, THE CDC REPORTING YOUTH RATES DECLINED AFTER LEGALIZATION INCLUDING IN COLORADO.

>>Daryl: SENATOR RHOADS, IS PART OF THE THINKING ALONG THIS QUESTION FROM BRETT IN KAIMUKI.

WOULDN'T LEGALIZE MAKE IT EASIER CONTROL WHAT'S MIXED IN WITH IT?

EASIER TO STUDY?

THIS IDEA OF YEAH, IT'S EVERYWHERE BUT DOES IT NEED TO BE REGULATED AND BROUGHT OUT OF THE CLOSET IN ORDER TO MAKE PEOPLE SAFER?

>> I THINK IT DOES.

MOST OF THE STUFF THAT WE PUT IN OUR MOUTHS AND EAT OR DRINK, THERE ARE SAFETY CHECKS.

IN THE GROCERY STORE, YOU BUY STUFF, IT HAS A SOLD BY DATE.

YOU HAVE A PRETTY GOOD IDEA WHAT'S IN THERE.

EVEN THAT SYSTEM MESSES UP SOMETIMES.

IF YOU PUT SOMETHING IN THERE THAT'S NOT PAKALOLO OR CHEAPER TO SUPPLY, IF YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH IT, GREAT.

OR IF YOU WANT TO MIX IT WITH SOMETHING ELSE, THAT'S HARDER, YOU MIGHT MIND PEOPLE FIND THAT POPULAR TOO.

THERE'S NO RESTRICTION IF THERE'S NOBODY LOOKING.

THERE'S NO AGENCY THAT YOU HAVE TO RUN THAT THROUGH TO BE SURE THAT WHAT YOU PUT IN IS IN THE RANGES.

IF IT WAS LEGAL, YOU'VE GOT A SAFER PRODUCT.

>>Daryl: DO YOU PICTURE LEGALIZATION BASICALLY JUST BEING A COTTAGE THING WHERE PEOPLE GROW THEIR OWN FOR THE MOST PART, OR DO YOU SEE IT AN INDUSTRIAL THING?

WOULD YOU LET PEOPLE GROW THEIR OWN AND SHARE WITH THEIR FRIENDS AS OPPOSED TO HAVING A TAXABLE, REGULATABLE INDUSTRY?

SENATOR RHOADS?

>> I THINK IT'S LIKELY TO BE BOTH.

IF YOU WANT TO GROW, YOU CAN GROW.

LIKE YOU CAN GROW A GARDEN GROW TOMATOES IF YOU WANT TO.

IF YOU LOOK AT TOBACCO COMPANIES, DEPENDING ON HOW YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THAT, THAT MAY BE A DANGER OF LEGALIZING PAKALOLO.

ALL THE MOM AND POP OPERATIONS WILL BE PUSHED OUT OF BUSINESS BY THE RJRs OF PAKALOLO.

IT'S QUITE LIKELY TO BE CORPORATIZED IN A SENSE.

>>Daryl: NIKOS, WHAT'S YOUR IMAGE?

HOMEGROWN VERSUS THE INDUSTRIAL SIDE?

>> GOING FORWARD, WE STAND FIRMLY FOR THE RIGHT TO PEOPLE TO GROW THEIR OWN CANNABIS IN LIMITED QUANTITIES.

WE HAVE TO PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF PATIENTS AND CARE PROVIDERS UNDER OUR CURRENT MEDICAL CANNABIS LAWS.

REGULATORS AND POLICYMAKER HAVE TO BY CAREFUL IN PROTECTING HAWAII'S MARKET FROM A LARGE CORPORATE INVASION FROM THE CONTINENT AND FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

THERE ARE COMPANIES THAT HAVE MARKET CAPITALIZATION.

THAT WILL ONLY MULTIPLY ONCE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TAKES IT'S ACT TOGETHER AND ALLOWS BANKING SERVICES.

HAWAII HAS WORK TO DO.

BUT I'M CONFIDENT THAT WITH FOLKS LIKE REPRESENTATIVE OKIMOTO AND A.G. CONNORS AND SENATOR RHOADS, THAT SOMETHING TO SPREAD THE WEALTH OF THE ECONOMY CAN BE A REALITY, LIKE WE HAVE A BLOSSOMING CRAFT BREWERY SCENE HERE NOW.

THAT SHOULD BE A ROUGH MODEL.

>>Daryl: ONE MORE QUESTION.

WE'VE ONLY GOT ABOUT THREE MINUTES.

THIS MIGHT BE TOO BIG AN APPLE TO BITE INTO.

QUESTION I ALCOHOL AND SMOKING HARMS KIDS AND THOSE ARE LEGAL.

I DON'T SEE -- THIS REFERENCES REPRESENTATIVE OKIMOTO, BUT I THINK IT'S MORE ABOUT THE MORE TRADITIONAL THINKING LEGISLATORS.

I DON'T SEE YOU GOING AFTER THOSE.

ARE THOSE INDUSTRIES TOO BIG?

KIND OF HYPOCRITICAL TO SAY MARIJUANA IS WORSE.

I'M WONDERING, FOR ANYONE ON PANEL, HOW MUCH POWER OR IS THERE A PRESSURE FROM THE ALCOHOL AND OTHER VICES NOT TO APPROVE RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA BECAUSE IT WILL AFFECT THEIR BUSINESS?

>> I THINK TO -- I WASN'T THERE WHEN THEY BECAME LEGAL.

EVEN WHEN MEDICAL MARIJUANA CAME TO THE LEGISLATURE, I WAS NOT THERE.

FOR ME, I'VE BEEN ONE WHERE I VOTE MY CONSCIENCE.

I VOTE TO REPRESENT MY DISTRICT.

I CAN'T SPEAK FOR WHAT HAPPENED FOR ALCOHOL.

I WAS NOT THERE TO PLACE A VOTE ON THOSE.

IT'S LAW NOW SO I FOLLOW THE LAW.

THAT'S MY RESPONSIBILITY.

FOR ME, I WAS WITH A BUNCH OF THIRD GRADERS VIA ZOOM, AND THEY ASKED ME WHAT MY FAVORITE PART OF MY JOB IS, AND IT'S CONNECTING TO MY DISTRICT.

FOR THE PAST TWO PLUS YEARS, I ASKED MY DISTRICT HOW THEY FEEL, AND THEY'RE IN OPPOSITION.

AS SENATOR RHOADS SHARED HIS DISTRICT, HE -- IT.

MY DISTRICT IS DIFFERENT.

I THINK WE'RE NOT GOING TO REPRESENT EACH OTHER'S DISTRICTS.

I HOLD THAT RESPONSIBILITY -- I CARRY -- I WANT TO REPRESENT THEM PROPERLY.

WHEN THEY'RE IN OPPOSITION, I KNOW NOT EVERYBODY FEELS THE SAME WAY.

MAJORITY FEELS THAT WAY, I HAVE TO REPRESENT THEIR VOICES.

>>Daryl: SENATOR RHOADS, YOU'RE THE MORE EXPERIENCED POLITICIAN.

YOU'VE BEEN COUNTING VOTES FOR A FEW YEARS.

IS THIS SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY GOING TO HAPPEN THIS YEAR?

TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN?

YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO IT IN TWO WORDS BUT A MINUTE OR SO.

WHAT'S THE REALISTIC POSSIBILITY OF THIS PASSING?

>> I THINK IT'S UNLIKELY.

I THINK IN THE SENATE, VOTES ARE THERE.

THE SENATE, I THINK TENDS TO BE A LITTLE MORE -- I DON'T KNOW IF LIBERAL IS EXACTLY THE RIGHT WORDS BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN ISSUES THAT ARE GRASPED QUICKER, I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY.

I THINK IT'S VOTES ARE THERE PRETTY EASY EASILY.

THE HOUSE, I DON'T KNOW.

THE HOUSE, I WAS IN FOR TEN YEARS.

I WAS THE FIRST COMMITTEE CHAIR TO HEAR A LEGALIZATION BILL.

I WAS TOLD BY THE NEXT COMMITTEE CHAIR, YOU CAN PASS THAT OUT OF COMMITTEE, BUT I DON'T HAVE THE VOTES TO PASS IT IN THE NEXT COMMITTEE.

I DIDN'T BOTHER TO GO FORWARD.

SO I WOULD SAY THERE'S A PRETTY GOOD CHANCE SOMETHING WILL PASS THE SENATE.

I WOULD SAY ODDS ARE SIGNIFICANTLY LESS IN THE HOUSE.

THAT'S JUST AN EDUCATED GUESS.

>>Daryl: THERE MAY BE MORE MONEY COMING IN, WHICH WOULD GET INCENTIVE FOR IT TO BE A CASH CROP.

>> A LITTLE.

AS I SAID BEFORE, I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE DRIVER.

I THINK THE DRIVER IS PEOPLE FEEL LIKE -- >>Daryl: I GOT TO STOP YOU.

SORRY, SENATOR.

I GOT TO STOP YOU.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, ALL OF YOU.

MAHALO TO ALL OUR VIEWERS FOR JOINING US TONIGHT.

AND WE THANK OUR GUESTS -- THE STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL, CLARE CONNORS... DEMOCRATIC STATE SENATOR KARL RHOADS.... REPUBLICAN STATE REPRESENTATIVE VAL OKIMOTO... AND NIKOS LEVERENZ, BOARD PRESIDENT FOR THE DRUG POLICY FORUM OF HAWAII.

>>> NEXT WEEK ON INSIGHTS, WE’LL GET THE LATEST ON THE STATE’S BATTLE AGAINST COVID-19 FROM OUR LEADERS IN CHARGE OF THE EFFORT.

WE’LL TALK EVERYTHING FROM VACCINATIONS AND VARIANTS TO EASING MORE RESTRICTIONS.

PLEASE JOIN US THEN.

I’M DARYL HUFF FOR INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI'I, ALOHA!