>> DEMOCRATS WAIT FOR TIM RYAN.

>> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD. "

I AM MIKE THOMPSON.

THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE > >> DEMOCRATS WAIT FOR TIM RYAN.

> >> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD. "

I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE REMAINS IN LIMBO.

FORMER OHIO HEALTH DIRECTOR AMY ACTON CONTINUES TO TRAVEL THE STATE, COLLECTING DEMOCRATIC SUPPORT AND ENDORSEMENTS.

BUT, SHE DOES NOT KNOW IF SHE MIGHT FACE A PRIMARY OPPONENT.

FORMER CONGRESSMAN TIM RYAN MAY ENTER THE RACE.

HE SAYS HE HAS BEEN THINKING ABOUT IT SERIOUSLY, SINCE SHERROD BROWN OPTED TO RUN FOR SENATE.

RYAN PROMISED A DECISION BY THE END OF SEPTEMBER --WHICH IS TUESDAY --BUT LAST WEEK, HE TOLD CHANNEL 10 HE MIGHT TAKE A COUPLE MORE WEEKS TO DECIDE.

FIRST, IT WAS SHERROD BROWN THAT KEPT DEMOCRATS ON HOLD, NOW IT IS TIM RYAN, TO SOME DEGREE, WHAT IS GOING ON?

>> NOT SURE, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF IT MAKES NOT MUCH DIFFERENCE.

IF HE RUNS, IT GIVES AMY A CLEAR PATH, BUT A PRIMARY MAY NOT BE BAD FOR HER.

I THINK SHE COULD ACTUALLY BEAT HIM IN THE PRIMARY WITH THE ENDORSEMENTS THAT I SEE SO FAR, AND THE LIKELY SOURCES OF MONEY AND SHE ACTUALLY COULD DEFEAT HIM IN PRIMARY, THAT WOULD MAKE HER A BETTER CANDIDATE IN THE FALL AND GIVE HER A LITTLE BIT MORE CREDIBILITY, A BIT MORE STANDING, AND VICE VERSA FOR HIM, BUT I DON'T THINK HIS ANNOUNCEMENT IS EARTHSHAKING.

>> WHAT DOES THIS MEAN AT THE STATEHOUSE, JO?

PEOPLE PLACE BETS ON, YOU KNOW, DRAFTKINGS, WHAT WOULD THEY SAY, IN OR OUT, FOR TIM RYAN?

>> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO PLACE BETS, A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT, "IF HE DOES, HE DOES, IF HE DOESN'T, HE DOESN'T," AND GOING ON FROM THERE.

BECAUSE AS HERBERT MAKES SOME GOOD POINTS THERE, WE KNOW THAT DR.

ACTON HAS BEEN OUT CAMPAIGNING, SHE HAS BEEN GOING THROUGH THE TRADITIONAL CIRCLES, SHE HAS A LOT FROM TRADITIONAL DEMOCRATS, RIGHT NOW.

SO, IF HE GETS IN, HE WILL HAVE A LOT OF UNION SUPPORT, PROBABLY, AND THAT'S THE KEY THING.

>> THAT IS WHAT I WAS GOING TO ASK BOB, VIVEK RAMASWAMY HAS THE TRADITIONAL DEMOCRATIC UNION SUPPORT, AND WHAT IS GOING UP THERE?

IS THERE A WAY TO KEEP TIM RYAN OUT?

AND IF SO, IS HE AFRAID OF TIM RYAN?

>> WELL, HE WANTS THEM BECAUSE THEY BRING MONEY AND VOTES, SO THAT'S WHY HE WANTS THEM.

IS HE AFRAID OF TIM RYAN?

NO.

AND I KNOW, FOR EFFECT --YOU KNOW, THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM IS THAT REPUBLICANS WOULD RATHER RUN AGAINST AMY ACTON, BECAUSE SHE IS "SHUTDOWN AMY" AND ALL OF THAT, FROM COVID.

BUT, I ALSO HEARD SOME SCUTTLEBUTT THAT MAYBE TIM RYAN MAY NOT BE THAT, YOU KNOW, STRONG OF A CANDIDATE.

BECAUSE, LOOK, HE LOST TO J. D. VANCE IN 2022, AND THEN BECAME A LOBBYIST.

AND ALSO REMEMBER, IN 2022, HE RAN AS A REPUBLICAN, ALMOST, TRIED TO.

TRIED TO.

AND HE IS GOING TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT PROGRESSIVE WING OF THE PARTY.

I DON'T SEE THEM, YOU KNOW, BEING RAH, RAH, TIM RYAN, WHEN HE TRIED TO PORTRAY HIMSELF AS THIS GREAT MODERATE THAT COULD WORK WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

>> BUT, HERB, IS THAT THE ONLY WAY THAT A DEMOCRAT CAN GET ELECTED IN THIS STATE?

WE ARE 65, 35 REPUBLICAN MAJORITY, AND IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO RUN AS A LIBERAL DEMOCRAT.

>> YEAH, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE IF YOU ARE TOO LIBERAL OF A DEMOCRAT, BUT YOU ALSO DEPEND ON SOME OTHER THINGS, WHAT WILL THE MIDTERM ENVIRONMENT LOOK LIKE?

WILL IT BE A BAD YEAR, LIKE HISTORICALLY IT IS, FOR THE PARTY IN POWER IN THE PRESIDENCY?

WE DON'T KNOW THAT, YET.

HOW WILL THE ECONOMY BE?

THE ONLY TIME I REMEMBER THE DEMOCRATS HAVING WON THE GOVERNORSHIP IN RECENT DECADES WAS, WHAT, 2006?

>> YES.

>> AND THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE WAS KEN BLACKWELL.

PART OF THE PROBLEM FOR KEN, HE WAS TOO CONSERVATIVE, TOO EXTREME.

AND I THINK FOR J. D. VANCE, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF POSITIONS HE HAS TAKEN, EVEN FOR VIVEK RAMASWAMY, A NUMBER OF POSITIONS HE HAS TAKEN, IF THE DEMOCRATS DO THEIR RESEARCH, THEY WILL AT LEAST HAVE SOME THINGS TO SAY, "THIS GUY IS OUT OF THE MAINSTREAM, OUT OF THE CONSERVATIVE MAINSTREAM. "

BUT, DEMOCRATS ARE SORT OF AT THE MERCY OF A POLITICAL ATMOSPHERE WHICH THEY CAN CONTROL AND ALSO AT THE MERCY, WILL VIVEK MAKE MISTAKES?

AND IF HE RUNS A REALLY GOOD CAMPAIGN, DOESN'T MAKE MISTAKES, IT WILL BE VERY DIFFICULT FOR ANY DEMOCRAT TO WIN.

>> RIGHT NOW, JO, VIVEK RAMASWAMY IS PRETTY BUTTONED UP.

HE HOLDS TOWN HALL MEETINGS WHICH ARE MORE OR LESS STAGED, IT LOOKS LIKE A FAIR CROWD, SOMEBODY SNEAKS IN A CHALLENGING QUESTION, SOMETIMES.

BUT, THEY ARE PRETTY CONTROLLED.

IS DOING HIS MAIN THING NOW WITH FOX NEWS, HE DID A PODCAST INTERVIEW WITH "THE NEW YORK POST PODCAST. "

HE HAS REALLY ENGAGED WITH THE MEDIA THAT MUCH, RECENTLY.

>> WELL, HE DID TALK TO ME ON MY PODCAST, LAST WEEK.

>> OH, HE DID?

>> ABOUT FARMERS.

WE HAD HIM ON THE TV SHOW, ALTHOUGH WE DIDN'T HAVE VIDEO BECAUSE IT WAS A RADIO INTERVIEW.

BUT, HE IS NOT TALKING TO A LOT OF OHIO MEDIA AND IN FACT, THERE WAS AN EVENT EARLIER THIS WEEK, WHERE HE SKIRTED OUT BEHIND THE MEDIA.

IT WAS AN EVENT HE TENDED WITH SENATOR HUSTED, SENATOR HUSTED STOOD THERE AND TALK TO THE MEDIA AND WHILE ALL THAT WAS GOING ON, VIVEK RAMASWAMY JUST WENT AROUND THE BACK AND GOT AWAY.

SO, I MEAN, I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.

BUT, I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE ARE NOT --AS REPORTERS, WE ARE KIND OF USED TO THIS BY NOW, YOU KNOW?

BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT ALWAYS HAD --I MEAN, GOVERNOR DeWINE DOES PROBABLY WAY MORE OF THESE GAGGLES, AND REPORTER QUESTIONS DOWN A GOVERNOR WE HAVE HAD IN A WHILE.

>> LESS THAN PRESIDENT TRUMP, THOUGH.

THAT'S EVERY HOUR.

>> WELL, YEAH.

>> TO THE ALLEGATION THAT VIVEK RAMASWAMY IS EXTREME, TO GET THAT MESSAGE OUT, YOU NEED -- >> MONEY.

>> MONEY.

YOU NEED ADS ON THE AIR.

>> WILL DEMOCRATS HAVE THAT MONEY?

>> I THINK THEY WILL HAVE ENOUGH TO GET THAT OUT.

RIGHT NOW, FOR EXAMPLE, AMY ACTON IS GOING AROUND THE STATE --I HAVE HEARD A FEW OF THE THINGS SHE HAS SAID.

BUT, SHE HAS PUT TOGETHER A CASE AGAINST VIVEK.

SHE IS INTRODUCING HERSELF, AND SHE REALLY NOW HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY, "HE IS LIMITING INCOME TAX, HE IS A THREAT TO SCHOOLS. "

HE IS A THREAT TO THIS AND THAT.

I DON'T KNOW HOW WELL SHE IS SAYING THAT, I DON'T KNOW HOW WELL DEMOCRATS OF PUT THE CASE TOGETHER, BUT THEY WILL NEED, AT SOME POINT, ENOUGH MONEY, AS YOU SAY, TO DO THE ADS AND GET THOSE MESSAGES OUT.

>> DOESN'T MATTER REPUBLICANS, WHO THEY FACE?

BECAUSE TIM RYAN, HE LOST BY EIGHT POINTS, I THINK, TO J. D. VANCE, WHICH IN THIS DAY AND AGE, IS NOT BAD FOR DEMOCRATS, AND HE RAN A SPIRITED CAMPAIGN, PRETTY DISCIPLINED.

HE'S GOT EXPERIENCE.

BUT, AMY ACTON IS A FRESH FACE.

SO, WHO DO REPUBLICANS GO BEHIND, NOW?

>> I THINK IT IS 621, AND A DOZEN TO THE OTHER.

BECAUSE THE PROBLEM WITH AMY ACTON IS, IF SHE IS NOT CAREFUL, SHE WILL FALL INTO THAT NAN WHALEY THING, WHERE YOU GET SO FAR OUT THERE, YOU ARE NOT TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

AND THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED TO NAN WHALEY, SHE GOT --YOU KNOW, THEY BEAT HER UP.

BUT, TIM RYAN, LIKE I SAID, HE IS NOT THE PERFECT CANDIDATE.

I THINK THERE IS DOWNSIDES FOR HIM, TOO.

IT'S JUST A MATTER OF DEMOCRATS, CAN THEY BE CREDIBLE IN AN ELECTION?

AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT, IN 2018, THAT WAS NOT A GREAT ENVIRONMENT FOR REPUBLICANS, AND WE STILL SWEPT EVERY STATEWIDE OFFICE, HERE IN OHIO.

NOW, SHERROD DID WIN RE- ELECTION, BUT I JUST THINK, YOU KNOW, OHIOANS, THIS HAS BECOME A REALLY RED STATE.

>> ANY CHANCE THEY TEAM UP?

THERE HAS BEEN NO TALK ABOUT IT, RECENTLY, BUT YOU WONDER IF IT WILL BE LIKE MIKE DeWINE IN 2018, IF TIM RYAN AND AMY ACTON PARTNER UP.

>> I THINK THAT'S A POSSIBILITY.

I'M NOT SURE THEY BOTH FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THAT RIGHT NOW, BUT IT'S A POSSIBILITY.

>> DID JON HUSTED AND MIKE DeWINE FEEL COMFORTABLE WHEN THEY FIRST STARTED?

>> NO, BUT I THINK THE PROBLEM FOR DEMOCRATS, THE LONGER TIM RYAN PLACES OUT, THE LESS LIKELY I THINK IT IS THAT AMY ACTON WOULD TAKE THAT KIND OF A DEAL.

UNLESS TIM RYAN IS WILLING TO BE A LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR CANDIDATE.

THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE THE DEAL.

>> ALL RIGHT, WE WILL SEE.

SO, TUESDAY IS ONE DEADLINE, TWO WEEKS FROM THAT TUESDAY IS THE OTHER DEADLINE.

WE WILL SEE.

> >> HAVE YOU EVER SAT THROUGH A LONG MEETING, AND AT THE END SAID, "WELL, THAT'S A COUPLE HOURS OF MY LIFE I AIN'T GETTING BACK"?

MEMBERS OF THE OHIO REDISTRICTING COMMISSION MAY HAVE HAD THAT FEELING AFTER ITS FIRST MEETING THIS WEEK.

IT ACCOMPLISHED VERY LITTLE.

DEMOCRATS PRESENTED THEIR MAP, AND IT WAS QUICKLY DISMISSED BY THE MAJORITY REPUBLICANS.

THE TWO SIDES ARGUED OVER THE DEFINITION OF GERRYMANDERING.

BECAUSE THE CURRENT MAP PASSED FOUR YEARS AGO WITHOUT BIPARTISAN SUPPORT, IT MUST BE RE-DRAWN THIS YEAR.

THE FIRST DEADLINE TO COME UP WITH A COMPROMISE MAP IS TUESDAY.

THAT DEADLINE WILL LIKELY WILL PASS WITHOUT REPUBLICANS PUTTING FORWARD A MAP TO CONSIDER.

JO INGLES, YOU WERE AT THAT MEETING, ARE YOU GETTING THOSE HOURS BACK?

>> [ LAUGHTER ] I'M NOT GOING TO COMMENT ON THAT.

BUT, I THINK YOUR ASSESSMENT IS RIGHT, THAT THIS IS GOING TO COME AND GO, BECAUSE IT WAS PRETTY MUCH MADE VERY APPARENT BY THE REPUBLICANS WHO WERE SITTING ON THAT COMMITTEE, THAT THE DEADLINE WAS ACTUALLY THE END OF NOVEMBER, NOT SEPTEMBER 30th.

SO, THIS BIPARTISAN -- >> IT TOOK THEM THREE HOURS TO COME TO THAT CONCLUSION?

>> WELL, THEY HEARD SOME TESTIMONY AND ALL OF IT, BUT THE THING IS, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE GOING TO REFER IT TO THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION, AND IT MAY NOT EVEN GET REALLY CONSIDERATION THERE.

IF IT GOES IN NOVEMBER, IT CAN BE A PART OF THE MAP AND THAT MAP WOULD LAST FOR SIX YEARS.

AND THE MAP IS SUPPOSED TO BE A DETERRENT, ACTUALLY, BECAUSE THIS IS ALL DESIGNED SO THAT THEY WORK TOGETHER, TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING.

BUT, THAT SHORTER MAP, SHORTER THAN 10 YEARS, WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A DETERRENT.

IT REALLY HASN'T TURNED OUT TO BE THAT.

>> FOUR YEARS, THIS DAY AND AGE, IS 10 YEARS AS POLITICS WAS, 20 YEARS AGO.

>> I MEAN, IT WASN'T REALLY A DETERRENT.

>> NOT AT ALL.

NOT AT ALL.

AND THE LAST COURT DECISION, IT WAS A FEDERAL COURT IN KENTUCKY, WHEN THE JUDGES SAID, "WELL, YOU NEED TO WORK ON IT SOME MORE.

BUT, IF YOU CAN'T, THEN GO WITH THE MOST RECENT MAP THAT YOU HAVE. "

[ LAUGHTER ] WHICH WAS SAYING TO THE REPUBLICANS, "DON'T DO ANYTHING, OUR MAP ISN'T APPROVED, INDIRECTLY. "

>> AND THAT COULD HAPPEN AGAIN, NOVEMBER 30th COULD COME, IT COULD BE CHALLENGED IN COURT.

THERE COULD BE A BALLOT, FOR SURE, ON THIS MAP, BUT THE FILING DEADLINE IS FEBRUARY.

>> YEAH, ONCE AGAIN, WE WILL BE PUSHED TO THE LIMIT.

BUT, I MEAN, WE ARE HERE BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATS MISCALCULATED, FOUR YEARS AGO.

THEY SHOULD HAVE JUST GONE ALONG WITH THAT MAP.

IN POLITICS, NEVER ASSUME YOUR SITUATION IS GOING TO GET BETTER.

ALWAYS ASSUME IT IS GOING TO GET WORSE.

AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM.

THEY DIDN'T AGREE TO THAT MAP THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE, AND NOW, THEY ARE GOING TO BE FACING A MAP THAT ISN'T EVEN AS GOOD AS THAT ONE WAS.

>> SO, YOU SAT IN THERE, A LONG TIME AGO.

>> A LONG TIME AGO.

YOU MAKE ME FEEL OLD, MIKE.

>> WELL, THEY ONLY DO THAT ONCE EVERY 10 YEARS, NOT EVERY SIX MONTHS.

BUT, DO REPUBLICANS HAVE A DRAFT MAP OUT THERE SOMEWHERE, THAT THEY ARE TINKERING WITH?

PRIVATELY?

>> YES.

WELL, I'M SURE THEY ARE WORKING ON THINGS.

I THINK THE BIG QUESTION WILL BE, WILL IT BE A 13-2 REPUBLICAN MAP?

OR, WILL IT BE A, YOU KNOW, 12- 3 REPUBLICAN MAP?

IT'S 10 RIGHT NOW --RIGHT NOW, IT'S 10-5.

>> YEAH.

>> I THINK THE ONLY CONSTRAINT ON THE REPUBLICANS, IS THEY DON'T WANT TO DO ANYTHING SO AGGRESSIVE THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOME GROUNDS FOR A COURT CASE.

>> YEAH.

>> AND THAT WOULD SUGGEST THAT THE 12-3 WILL BE AN EASIER THING TO ACCOMPLISH DOWN TRYING TO DO 613-2.

>> WELL, GERRYMANDERING OR DRAWING LINES FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES HAVE NOT WORKED -- AGAIN, OUR COURTS WOULD NOT REVIEW THAT.

IT WOULD BE CONSEQUENCES FOR RACIAL GROUPS, OR THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> YEAH, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

>> WELL, THAT MIGHT EVEN BE GOING AWAY BECAUSE THE U. S. SUPREME COURT IS GOING TO BE LOOKING AT ALL THAT AND DEPENDING ON WHAT THEY DECIDE, EVEN THAT COULD GO AWAY.

SO, JO, WHAT MAPS --BASED ON WHAT YOU HEARD IN THE HEARING THIS WEEK --WHAT KIND OF MAPS ARE REPUBLICANS EXPECTED TO GO FOR AT THIS POINT?

>> WELL, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO GO FOR THE DEMOCRATIC MAP, WE KNOW THAT, BECAUSE IT'S A 10-5 MAP NOW, DEMOCRATS WANTED TO GO 8-7, AND THAT MEANS REPUBLICANS, RIGHT OFF THE BAT, LOSE TWO DISTRICTS, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO GO FOR THAT.

I THINK THAT'S RIGHT, THEY ARE PROBABLY GOING TO HEAD FOR 12- 3, 13-2, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A LOT IN THIS PROCESS, IT'S A VERY COMPLICATED PROCESS, AND THERE IS PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE WHO BROUGHT THE FAILED INITIATIVE LAST YEAR, AND ARE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IF IT GOES -- IF THEY GET SOMETHING TOO STRESSFUL, WE WILL GO TO COURT WITH IT.

SO, IT COULD END UP.

>> SO, WE HEARD THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, WHAT MAP WOULD DEMOCRATS ACCEPT?

>> WELL, AS WAS SAID, THEY WOULD BE VERY SMART TO ACCEPT THE CURRENT MAP, BUT THAT'S NOT A VISION THEY CAN TAKE RIGHT NOW, SO THEY WILL ADVOCATE FOR THE MAP, THEY WILL HAVE NO ROLE IN THE PROCESS, AND THE REPUBLICANS WILL COME UP WITH SOMETHING.

AGAIN, FOR THE REPUBLICANS, THE KEY IS NOT TO GET OVERLY AGGRESSIVE, OVERLY DRAMATIC IN THEIR DISTRICTING.

>> OKAY, HOLD THAT THOUGHT.

SO, REPUBLICANS' MAP, DEMOCRATS' MAP, WHAT MAP WILL DONALD TRUMP ACCEPT?

>> THE 15-0 MAP, THAT'S WHAT HE WOULD ACCEPT!

[ LAUGHTER ] NO, I THINK HE WILL TAKE WHATEVER HE CAN GET.

AND THAT'S THE AMAZING THING ABOUT THIS, WE ARE THE ONLY STATE OF THE 50 STATES THAT LEGITIMATELY NEEDS TO GO IN TO DO REDISTRICTING.

EVERYBODY IS DOING IT, YOU KNOW -- >> HOW THE PRESIDENT WANTS IT.

WHERE DOES GOVERNOR DEWINE'S CAMPAIGN FOR THE IOWA SYSTEM STAND?

>> DEAD.

>> YEAH.

PRESIDENT TRUMP SIX PROBABLY.

>> I MEAN, THERE'S NO INITIATIVE TO PICK THAT UP AT THE LEGISLATURE.

>> WELL, HE PROMISED IT LAST YEAR BEFORE THE VOTE ON THE REDISTRICTING.

>> HE PROMISED.

>> WELL, HE'S THE GOVERNOR.

>> WELL -- >> AND WE TALKED ABOUT THE ELECTION AGAIN?

> >> ALL RIGHT.

LATE NIGHT COMEDIAN JIMMY KIMMEL RETURNED FROM HIS BRIEF SUSPENSION TUESDAY, BUT COLUMBUS TV VIEWERS COULD NOT WATCH IT.

SINCLAIR BROADCASTING --WHICH OWNS CHANNEL 6, HERE IN COLUMBUS --AT FIRST REFUSED TO AIR THE SHOW.

THAT DECISION PROMPTED A PROTEST AT THE STATION.

ABOUT 100 PEOPLE CALLED ON CHANNEL 6 TO AIR THE PROGRAM, AND DENOUNCED THE FCC CHAIRMAN FOR SUGGESTING ABC WOULD FACE REGULATORY CONSEQUENCES FOR AIRING THE JIMMY KIMMEL SHOW.

THE PROTEST MAY HAVE WORKED, BECAUSE SINCLAIR AND CHANNEL 6 WILL AIR IT NOW.

SENATOR JON HUSTED THIS WEEK JOINED THE FEW REPUBLICANS CRITICAL OF THE FCC CHARIMAN.

HUSTED TOLD REPORTERS THE COMMENTS CROSSED A LINE, AND HE IS ALL IN FAVOR OF FREE SPEECH.

BOB CLEGG, DID YOU WATCH JIMMY KIMMEL?

WHERE DO YOU STAND ON ALL OF THIS?

>> YOU KNOW, I AGREE WITH SENATOR HUSTED, I DON'T THINK THE S. E. C. CHAIRMAN HAD ANY BUSINESS EVEN COMMENTING ON THIS.

I THINK THIS ARE --YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT IS JIMMY KIMMEL, COLBERT, STEPHEN COLBERT, I THINK THESE ARE BUSINESS DECISIONS.

LEAVE IT TO THE OWNERSHIP, THE NETWORKS, TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS.

IF THEY THINK THAT THEIR PERSON ON AIR IS GOING TOO FAR, AND THAT IS ALIENATING, YOU KNOW, THE AUDIENCE AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE BUYING ADS ON THEIR PROGRAM, THEN LET PEOPLE DEAL WITH IT.

WE DON'T NEED THE FCC INVOLVED, OR ANYTHING ELSE.

>> THE LATE-NIGHT COMEDIANS ALWAYS HAVE MADE FUN OF PRESIDENTS AND POLITICIANS.

BUT, LATELY, MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE OF TRUMP, BUT THEY DEFINITELY HAVE BECOME MORE POLITICAL AND IT IS MORE OF AN ADVOCACY HUMOR THAN JUST STRAIGHT HUMOR.

>> WELL, TRUMP GIVES THEM SO MUCH RAW MATERIAL TO WORK WITH.

I MEAN, YOU CAN ATTACK JO BIDEN, BUT -- I MEAN, HE'S OLD NOW, THEY CAN GO AFTER HIM ON THAT.

BUT, TRUMP IS JUST ASKING FOR IT, AND HE LOVES IT, BECAUSE HE THEN GETS THE CHANCE TO RESPOND.

THIS IS REALLY PART OF A GAME THAT IS BEING PLAYED.

WHERE THE S. E. C. CHAIRMAN HAS JUST BEEN A FOOL, IS THAT IT WAS JUST A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, HE WAS QUOTED, AND WE HAVE THE VIDEO, HE SAID JUST THE OPPOSITE, "WE SHOULDN'T BE DOING THIS. "

THEN, ALL OF A SUDDEN, HE CHANGES.

AND AGAIN, IT REFLECTS, ONLY DONALD TRUMP FORCED HIM TO DO THIS, HE SHOULD HAVE SAID, "JUST STAY OUT OF IT, IT'S NOT WHAT THE FCC IS SUPPOSED TO DO. "

>> REMEMBER THE FAIRNESS DOCTRINE, JO, WHERE THE FCC HAD A ROW FROM 1949 UNTIL THE LATE '80s, WHERE YOU HAD TO PRESENT BOTH SIDES, YOU HAD TO BE FAIR.

THEN, CONSERVATIVE TALK RADIO WAS GETTING GOING, THE RAID AND ADMINISTRATION FCC PUT IT ASIDE, DO WE NEED IT BACK FOR BROADCASTERS USING THE PUBLIC AIRWAVES?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I LIKED IT WHEN IT WAS THERE, I THOUGHT IT WAS FAIR.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK IT'S COMING BACK.

I MEAN, LET'S BE REAL, THAT'S NOT COMING BACK.

WE LIVE IN A UNIVERSE WHERE -- YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE NOT WATCHING --I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WATCH IT, BASED ON WHAT I --BUT, THEY ARE WATCHING IT ON YOUTUBE, THEY ARE STREAMING IT, THEY ARE FINDING IT OTHER PLACES.

AND I WILL TELL YOU, I THINK THE ADVERTISERS THAT ADVERTISE LOCALLY ON THE LOCAL STATION, AND DURING THE KIMMEL SHOW, THEY PROBABLY WERE A LITTLE FRUSTRATED THAT PEOPLE WEREN'T SEEING THEIR ADS, PEOPLE WEREN'T WATCHING ON HEAVILY VIEWED KNIGHTS OF THE KIMMEL SHOW.

>> WELL, IT WAS HEAVILY VIEWED BECAUSE OF ALL THE CONTROVERSY.

HIS RATINGS WERE HIGH.

>> WELL, IT'S THAT A RATINGS RECORD.

SO, IF I WAS AN ADVERTISER, I WOULD BE SITTING THERE GOING, "WAIT A MINUTE, I WANT MY PIECE OF THE PIE.

I PAID FOR THAT. "

>> GETTING BACK TO WHERE PRIVATE COMPANIES SHOULD FALL, VIVEK RAMASWAMY, THIS WEEK, LATE THIS WEEK, SAID THAT YOUTUBE --HE CALLED ON YOUTUBE TO REINSTATE ALEX JONES, THE CONSPIRACY THEORIST WHO SAID THAT SANDY HOOK WAS A HOAX, AND NICK FUENTES, WHO HAS MADE WHAT THE PREMISES TO STATEMENTS AND ANTI- SEMITIC STATEMENTS.

RAMASWAMY SAID THEY SHOULD BE BACK ON YOUTUBE.

SHOULD THEY BE?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT THAT'S ALL ABOUT?

THAT'S ALL ABOUT YOUTUBE, THIS WEEK, ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THEY WERE PRESSURED BY THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TO CENSOR CONTENT CREATORS THAT WERE TALKING ABOUT COVID-19 AND THE 2020 ELECTION, AND THEY WERE TAKING POSITIONS THAT WERE IN OPPOSITION TO WHAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WANTED.

AND THE YOUTUBE --WELL, THE ATTORNEYS FOR ALPHABET INC.

, WHICH OWNS YOUTUBE, SAID THAT THE PRESSURE FROM THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WAS "UNACCEPTABLE AND WRONG. "

SO, I THINK WHERE VIVEK IS COMING FROM IN ALL OF THIS IS, ARE WE GOING TO HAVE CENTER -- CENSORSHIP, OR ARE WE NOT?

AND IF WE ARE GOING TO HAVE CENTER CENSORSHIP, THEN YOU HAVE TO LEAVE IT OPEN FOR ALL KINDS OF FIRST AMENDMENT.

YOU CAN SAY WHAT YOU WANT.

IT MAY NOT BE WHAT PEOPLE LIKE, BUT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY IT.

SO, WITH YOUTUBE, WHO DO WE CENSOR, AND WHAT RULES ARE WE GOING TO ABIDE BY, WHEN WE ARE CENSORING PEOPLE?

LIKE, WHO'S GOING TO GET CENSORED, AND WHO IS NOT?

>> THESE GUYS ARE PRETTY FAR OUT.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT?

THERE WOULD BE PEOPLE THAT ARE CURRENTLY ON YOUTUBE, THAT INDIVIDUALS ARE WATCHING IT SAYING, "OH, MY GOD, I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT'S ON YOUTUBE. "

I MEAN, IT'S LIKE OBSCENITY, WHAT THE SUPREME COURT SAYS, "YOU KNOW IT WHEN YOU SEE IT," I GUESS.

>> HERE'S A QUOTE FROM FUENTES, "JEWS ARE RUNNING A SOCIETY, WOMEN NEED TO SHUT UP, BLACKS NEED TO BE IN PRISON FOR THE MOST PART, IT WOULD BE A PARADISE, IT IS THAT SIMPLE. "

>> I COULD SEE WHY YOU WOULDN'T WANT THAT BACKUP, BUT I WILL TELL YOU WHAT, I AM ON YOUTUBE AND OTHER STUFF, I SEE SO MUCH ANTI-SEMITIC, YOU KNOW, GARBAGE OUT THERE.

AND IT MAY NOT BE THAT KIND OF LANGUAGE, BUT IT IS STILL, YOU KNOW, "THE JEWS ARE CONTROLLING WAY TOO MUCH IN OUR COUNTRY," ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

SO, THEY ARE ALLOWED TO BE ON THERE.

>> YOUTUBE IS A PRIVATE COMPANY, BUT IT IS REALLY A PUBLIC SPACE, THOUGH.

>> I THINK, IN FACT, YOUTUBE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT THERE IS A CERTAIN CONTENT THAT SO CROSSES THE LINE, IT'S SO OUT OF BOUNDS, THAT WE WILL DECIDE WE DON'T WANT TO PUT IT ON THERE, AND IT SHOULD NOT BE THE GOVERNMENT TELLING THEM TO DO THAT.

>> EXACTLY.

>> AND I THINK WHAT YOU CITED RIGHT NOW, I WOULD COME DOWN IN FAVOR OF SAYING, "GET THEM OFF. "

BUT, DIFFERENT COUNTRIES HAVE DIFFERENT VIEWS ABOUT FREE SPEECH AND FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION.

SO, THERE WAS J. D. VANCE IN GERMANY, CRITICIZING THE GERMANS FOR SHUTTING DOWN NAZIS.

>> THAT CONSISTENTLY HAS BEEN A HALLMARK OF THIS DEBATE.

> >> LET'S GET TO THIS LAST TOPIC.

THIS YEAR'S STATE REPORT CARDS ON OHIO PUBLIC SCHOOLS HAD SOME SOBERING RESULTS.

THE GOOD NEWS IS MATH SCORES IMPROVED, BUT 45% OF OHIO STUDENTS ARE NOT PROFICIENT IN MATH.

READING SCORES WERE SLIGHTLY BETTER.

60% OF STUDENTS ARE PROFICIENT, 40% ARE NOT.

AND, A QUARTER OF OHIO STUDENTS ARE CHRONICALLY ABSENT FROM SCHOOL.

THE STATS COME AS EDUCATION RISES A KEY POLITICAL ISSUE.

HOMEOWNERS AND LAWMAKERS ARE CALLING FOR MAJOR CUTS TO PROPERTY TAXES, WHICH PROVIDE HALF OF SCHOOL BUDGETS.

SCHOOL CHOICE, VOUCHERS, AND HOME SCHOOLING, ARE BECOMING MORE POPULAR.

WE ARE PUTTING MORE IN DOLLAR FIGURES IN OHIO, BUT THE FIGURES ARE NOT THERE, STUDENTS ARE NOT DOING WELL IN READING AND MATH.

WHAT IS GOING ON?

>> WE ARE NOT DOING A GOOD JOB.

HERE IS THE GOOD NEWS.

THERE IS A TIME WHEN WE WERE MEASURING THIS STUFF, THERE IS A TIME WHEN THE NOTION OF STANDARDS WAS VERY CONTROVERSIAL AND THERE ARE STILL ISSUES HERE, BUT LOOK, IT'S IMPORTANT WE DO THESE KINDS OF MEASUREMENTS SO SCHOOL DISTRICTS CAN SEE HOW THEY ARE DOING OVERTIME.

ARE THEY GETTING BETTER OR WORSE?

AND ALSO, HOW THEY ARE DOING, IN COMPARISON TO OTHER SCHOOL DISTRICTS?

IT'S VERY, VERY IMPORTANT THEY DO THAT.

>> IS THIS FUELING THE HOMESCHOOL AND VOUCHER PUSH?

>> OH, YEAH, I THINK IT IS, BECAUSE THE WHOLE COVID SHUTDOWNS, ALL OF THAT, THAT HAS GOTTEN SCHOOL CHOICE AND EVERYTHING LIKE THAT EVEN BIGGER THAN IT WAS 10 YEARS AGO.

AND I THINK ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS WITH EDUCATION, YOU HAVE THAT CHRONIC ABSENTEEISM THAT IS GOING ON, AND YOU CANNOT EDUCATE A CHILD, UNLESS THEY ARE ACTUALLY THERE.

>> SO, WHERE DO LAWMAKERS -- BECAUSE THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS PROPERTY TAX ISSUE IN SOME FORM, THEY MIGHT HAVE TO MAKE MINOR CHANGES, BEFORE THE NEXT ELECTION, EVEN.

>> YEAH, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DO SOMETHING AND IT IS GOING TO BE HARD, BECAUSE ANYWHERE THEY GO WITH THAT, THEY ARE GOING TO RUN INTO AN OBSTACLE.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS IS THAT, STILL, MOST OF THE STUDENTS, ABOUT 85% OF THE STUDENTS, ARE GOING TO PUBLIC SCHOOL.

PEOPLE CHOOSE WHERE THEY LIVE, BASED ON WHAT PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM SERVES THAT.

SO, YOU KNOW, IF YOU START GOING TOO FAR DOWN THE ROAD, GETTING RID OF PROPERTY TAXES, YOU ARE GOING TO RUN INTO THE CRITICISM THAT YOU ARE NOT FUNDING THE SCHOOLS PROPERLY.

THEY REALLY HAVE A LOT OF DIFFICULT CHOICES TO MAKE, AS FAR AS THESE PROPERTY TAXES.

AND ALSO, TO SUM UP, THEY SAID THEY WANTED TO ELIMINATE INCOME TAXES.

THAT IS EVEN MORE PRESSURE ON PROPERTY TAXES.

>> RIGHT.

> >> IF YOU WANT TO REALLY KNOW MORE HOW OHIO PAYS FOR ITS SCHOOLS, WHERE THE MONEY GOES, IF IT'S SPENT WISELY, WOSU HAS A NEW PODCAST --"ALL SIDES UNTANLGLED: THE COST OF LEARNING. "

IT'S ON THE 89.

7 NPR NEWS, ON THE RADIO, MONDAY MORNINGS AT 11:00, AND AVAILABLE WHERE EVER YOU GET YOUR PODCASTS.

> >> OKAY.

LET'S GET TO OUR "OFF THE RECORD" PARTING SHOTS.

BOB CLEGG YOU ARE FIRST.

>> HE JUST INTRODUCED TO MAKE BUCKEYE THE OFFICIAL STATE CANDY OF OHIO.

>> WHERE IS THE DUMB DUMB LOBBY?

>> I DON'T KNOW!

GOOD POINT.

HERB?

>> THERE ARE A LOT OF DEMOCRATS IN THE LEGISLATURE, WAITING, TO GET SOME SENSE OF WHAT THE DISTRICTS WILL LOOK LIKE, AND THERE IS A COUPLE, I'M THINKING OF ADAM MILLER, WHO IS A MODERATE DEMOCRAT AND VETERAN, WHO IS NOW SORT OF LOOKING WEST OF COLUMBUS.

WONDERING, WHAT THE REPUBLICANS WILL BE DOING.

AND I THINK HE'S THINKING, "IF I CAN GET A DISTRICT THAT IS PLUS SEVEN REPUBLICAN, I MAY ACTUALLY TRY TO MAKE A MAJOR EFFORT, THERE. "

>> VOTERS WILL HAVE A SAY, TO SOME DEGREE.

>> YEAH.

>> JO?

>> I THINK WE DON'T REALLY KNOW HOW THIS IS PLAYING OUT AND ALL THESE THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING WITH EDUCATION, HOW IT IS PLAYING OUT IN THE SUBURBS, HOW IT IS PLAYING OUT IN THE SMALLER TOWNS, WHERE THEY DON'T HAVE THE SCHOOLS, THE PRIVATE SCHOOLS, THE CHARTER SCHOOLS.

I THINK NEXT YEAR IS GOING TO BE VERY TELLING, AS WE SEE THE PROPERTY TAX CONUNDRUM WORKED OUT, AND AS WE SEE ALL THE DIFFERENT MOVING PARTS, KEEP AN EYE ON THE SUBURBS AND THE RURAL AREAS, HOW THEY REACT TO ALL OF THIS.

> >> ALL RIGHT.

IF THE NON-STOP POLITICAL DRAMA HAS YOU NEEDING A LITTLE ADULT REFRESHMENT, WE HAVE AN EVENT FOR YOU.

JOIN US NEXT THURSDAY, OCTOBER 2nd FOR OUR NEXT "POLITICS AND A PINT" EVENT.

IT'S AT SEVENTH SON BREWING IN ITALIAN VILLAGE.

I WILL BE THERE, AMY JURAVICH WILL BE THERE.

JO INGLES WILL BE THERE.

IT WILL BE A LOT OF FUN.

YOU CAN REGISTER, BY GOING TO WOSU.

ORG/EVENTS.

> >> THAT'S "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK, AND YOU CAN WATCH US ANYTIME --BEVERAGE OR NOT -- ON OUR WEBSITE, WOSU.

ORG/COTR, ON YOUTUBE, AND ALSO ON THE PBS VIDEO APP.

FOR OUR CREW AND OUR PANEL, I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.