>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made back in 1998 in Chicago, where a make up artist named Christina Barillas McEntee was pondering a career change.

Christina was struggling to pay her bills, and she had big personal goals.

A friend had recently made a suggestion she should join the local plumbers union, a plumber, her friend argued, would have more long term stability and benefits.

For the first five years of doing it, Christina wondered if she'd made a mistake.

She was making just nine bucks an hour during an apprenticeship program, but she came to view it as a short term sacrifice to set up a comfortable future.

Today, Christina is 55 years old.

She makes 56 bucks an hour.

She plans to retire at age 60.

She's happy.

And yet, as CNBC reports, she finds it on many job sites.

She's still the only woman.

She says it still feels lonely in the skilled trades, and she's counseling other young women to do what she did to pursue the trades.

As CNBC reports, these jobs remain largely a man's world despite higher salaries and increasingly valuable long term employment prospects.

In the face of an artificial intelligence driven, white collar jobs revolution, women remain significantly underrepresented in the skilled trades.

They make up just a fraction of the workforce in industries such as automotive technology, diesel mechanics, plumbing and carpentry, for example, women represented 3.1% each of carpenters and plumbers, and 3.5% of electricians employed in the United States in 2025, according to the most recent occupational data from the U.S.

Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Well, our guest this hour in many ways are working to change those numbers, and they have a lot to say.

And let me welcome our guests in studio.

Now.

We'll go around here.

Stacey Mrva is an artist and instructor at Ironwood Studios, Inc.. Stacey, welcome.

Thanks for being here.

>> Thank you.

It's a pleasure to be here.

>> Where is Ironwood located?

>> We are in Springwater, New York, just south of Hemlock Lake.

>> And what do you do?

>> I am a metal artist.

I make sculptures recently.

Mostly public artwork.

You can see my stuff all around Rochester, Churchville, Finger Lakes region.

And then I also offer welding workshops, primarily geared towards women in my studio.

I offer those Thursday evenings and Saturday afternoons.

>> Thank you for being on the program today.

Next to Stacey is Lilly Hugi, who's a student in the Metal Trades Program at Genesee Valley Boces in Mount Morris.

Welcome.

Thanks for being here.

Hi.

Thank you.

Across the table.

Hello, Honesty Harmon, who is a student at Edison Tech.

Welcome, honesty.

Thanks for being here.

>> Hello.

It's nice to be here.

>> And Jim Putman Putnam is next to honesty.

He is a welding teacher at Edison Tech.

Welcome, Jim.

Thanks for being here.

>> And thanks for having me.

>> How long have you been doing doing that at Edison Tech there?

>> This is my eighth year.

>> Eighth year.

You love it.

>> I do.

I absolutely love it.

I, I am so thankful to be there.

>> Well, we're going to talk about some of what Jim does and what he has seen over the years and some of what he's talking to students about these days.

And welcome on the line to Mary Guldenschuh, who is deputy director of the Livingston County Workforce Development and Youth Bureau.

Hello, Mary.

Thanks for being with us.

>> Hello.

Thank you for having me.

>> All right.

So a lot of different places we can go here.

But let me start with this, Stacey.

You know, I'm reading the story of Christine in Chicago.

I could have chosen other stories that CNBC had collected among women in the trades.

And a lot of women told CNBC, I love what I do.

I have a very good career, and I don't know a lot of other women around me doing it.

What are you what have you experienced?

>> Yeah.

So for me, it's I came to welding and sort of from a different angle.

I'm an artist and I didn't plan on being a welder.

And while I was in art school, I went to Syracuse University.

welding was the metal was what I was drawn to.

So I found myself a welder essentially that that makes art through metal.

but even in that environment, in art school, I was one of the only female sculpture majors at my school.

So I've definitely been a minority in that field.

And yeah, I don't know too many other women that are doing what I do in the area for sure.

>> Were you at all surprised to find yourself interested in pursuing welding when you started it?

>> I always like to do things a little different and maybe the harder way.

but you know, I originally wanted to do metalsmithing jewelry making so smaller metal.

So it was a material I was drawn to, but being able to work on a larger scale and, and to be honest, I did kind of enjoy the novelty of being kind of the only woman in the room.

>> There are, there are a number across the Finger Lakes of interesting metalsmiths jewelry makers, welders, artists and their works, if you know where to look for them, are really, really beautiful.

But at the same time, I think part of the discussion today is about whether you can talk to, talk to kids, talk to students, talk to young women and say, this is a career that can be really, really good for you.

Do you do that?

What are your conversations like?

>> Yeah, absolutely.

I think a big thing that I like to do in my classes and what I've been able to do for people like honesty and Lily is show them that their women are capable of doing this.

I give them an opportunity to dip their toe in and just get their hands on the equipment.

You know, guys might be able to have that opportunity with their buddies in the garage, but a lot of young women aren't really getting that chance.

And just showing them that they can, they can do it physically and then also show them that, you know, it's maybe not just a trade, it's something if you are creative, this is another medium that you can work in.

>> If the numbers are what they are for.

Carpentry and plumbing, 3.1% of American carpenters and plumbers are women, and only 3.5% of electricians are women.

What do you think the number of welders is?

>> I want to say the last statistic I saw was probably around 5%.

>> Okay.

I mean, it's it's remarkable how low in the single digits these numbers still are.

Yeah.

Okay.

let me get we're going to talk to the pros first, and I cannot wait to hear from the students about what they think about where they're going and what the future looks like.

it's always interesting to me.

Mary Guldenschuh as the deputy director of the Livingston County Workforce Development and Youth Bureau first of all, tell us a little bit about what your job is, what your role is.

Are you there, Mary?

>> I am, I, I, I lost connection.

>> Oh, I'm back here if you can still hear me.

Mary.

So first of all, tell us about the work that you do, what your job and your role is in the community.

>> At Livingston County, workforce Development in the Youth Bureau.

We help individuals find jobs and, and so we are the one stop operating career center in our county.

And Stacey came to me a couple years ago through my capacity as the youth bureau deputy director and was asking for a letter of support because she was applying for a grant.

And anything that's going to further youth development in our county.

we are fully on board.

And so that was an easy.

Yes.

>> How long have you been doing that there?

Mary.

>> I've been at the county for 16 years.

>> And so in that time, has there been a shift in, in the way that job seekers, young people are viewing the trades?

I mean, the trades has always been an important job engine in this country.

But I wonder if they're getting more emphasis now.

>> So I believe there is a uptrend in this.

When you look at the the data for Boces enrollments in our Genesee Valley Boces, you.

We've seen a 59% increase in those enrolling in general ed at Boces.

Meanwhile, enrollments at component schools has declined by 11% over the last ten or so years.

So that's encouraging.

Of course, on for this topic and, and in the work that we do to really try to emphasize the trades.

>> Well, not surprising given the numbers that we've seen.

Jim Putnam, welding teacher at Edison Tech.

You've been in welding for how long?

I know you've been in Edison Tech for eight years.

How long have you been a welder?

>> 50, 50 years.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> is that what you wanted to do right from the start?

>> I went to Edison when I was a kid, obviously, and took Otto.

I was a car guy.

I really wanted to work on cars and be a mechanic.

And my first job out, I was a mechanic, and they needed a welder where I was.

And they asked me if I could weld.

I said I tried it in ninth grade.

I can probably do a little.

And so it went from there.

They sent me back to the city school district at night.

I learned how to weld.

And that's, that's the end of that story.

>> how many women welders have you come across in your career?

>> I luckily have come across a few only because I've been in so many different places.

But but probably when you really look at it, it's probably I've only seen maybe 20% of my work groups.

>> Yeah.

So 80% or more men.

Yeah.

And the number say it's even bigger than that.

So now as a teacher, what are you seeing in terms of interest and how gendered is that split?

>> you know, my classes are pretty, I don't want to say split in half, but I bet it's 6040.

>> That's that's pretty remarkable.

>> And the girls that I have are great.

they all seem to be able to weld as fast or pick it up as quick as the boys, if not faster.

and then their quality of work seems to be better.

I mean, it's sometimes, sometimes I'm amazed.

you know, I'll say, oh my God, look at this girl.

She the stuff that they can weld right off the bat.

It's amazing.

So that's exciting that they have that skill.

Now we have to take that skill to the next level.

>> So I would never argue that there's not a natural push.

Boys and girls looking at different careers.

I get that that is those things do happen.

But what you're describing is a kind of career that there isn't an inherent, inherent disadvantage for girls or women, that they're doing well right off the bat.

Right, right.

>> Their skill sets for as far as welding itself are excellent.

You know, that's that is a given almost the struggle I think we run into a little bit is it's a heavy duty job.

And sometimes there's physical strength involved that sometimes the girls don't have.

Like I probably the best welder I've ever seen come through my classes is a little peanut.

And you know, she's not going to be going out and hustling I-beams, you know, so this is one of the only issues I see as a struggle for the girls.

>> The occasional moments where raw physical strength might come into play.

So Stacey, has that ever come up for you as a as an issue?

>> well, I find that I've always found a way.

there's leverage, there's using your body weight.

There's, there's ways to skirt around things.

you know, I find like even just working in the shop at Edison, your angle grinders are way bigger than the one I use.

And I was hard watching the girls struggling to use them.

And they make tools that fit our size.

but yeah, I will do everything in my power to not ask for help.

but I will when I have to.

>> It is welding your line of work inherently better suited for men?

>> No.

>> No, no.

So why is the disparity so big?

Still.

>> I think it's a lot of it is exposure.

It's just not.

Girls just don't know it's an option.

And that's.

>> Because nobody ever tells them it's an option.

>> Yeah.

And and you know, I have so many women that come to my workshops who are like, oh, my dad welded or my uncle welded.

I'm like, oh, did they ever show you?

They're like, oh, no, they, they would tell me to stay away or it was something to fear.

They couldn't be around.

And to me, that's just it's crazy.

There's no reason.

And that's why I love doing these classes is that I can show young women that they can absolutely do this.

>> Okay.

How many young women have you worked with?

>> Oh, gosh.

I mean, I've had over 800 students coming through my doors in the past three and a half years.

and the teen workshops I've done recently, it's been probably 20, 20 girls have come through.

>> How do they find you?

>> oh, how like, >> Yeah, how do people even become aware of you?

How do they find you?

How do they sign up?

>> So yeah, you can go to our website.

It's Ironwood Studios.com.

You can find our socials on there as well.

you can sign up for classes.

I have classes all the time.

you know, girls 16 and older are allowed to come on their own.

if you're a little younger, you can come with a parent, but we'll be offering more free teen workshops for girls in Livingston County.

in the spring, I'm going to do one in the summer and then in the fall.

So if you follow us and sign up for our newsletter, you can learn more about classes that we offer.

>> and before I talk to the students, let me just ask the welders, is this a line of work that frequently feels really satisfying?

Do you like the work?

>> Oh my god, yeah.

There is nothing in this world like going from a piece of paper to something physical in front of you.

Within minutes, you are creating things.

You're making things.

It's so satisfying.

>> Jim.

>> Yeah, it's the instant gratification.

Yeah.

Instant satisfication satisfaction.

>> Satisfaction.

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll go with that.

anyway.

>> Metalsmith not a wordsmith.

>> That's okay.

Right.

but anyway, yeah, it's it's just you build something, you see it.

in many cases, we, we've done many different things.

We've built race cars, we've built tons of stuff.

And I mean one of the biggest things that I ever had was involved with was a race truck for the fire department in Point Pleasant.

And I put my body on that truck and went down the track 70 miles an hour.

And I'm thinking, this is over and over and over and over again that you got to trust your welds.

So yeah, it's, it's so satisfying.

It truly is.

It's, I can't imagine ever doing anything else.

>> We have a phone call from Paul in Brighton who wants to offer some encouragement as we turn to the students.

So I'll grab that call from Paul.

Hello, Paul.

Go ahead.

>> Yeah.

Hi.

How are you?

Very good.

Hopefully you can hear me.

Okay.

yeah, I just want to mention to the folks that are there that they have picked a wonderful career.

I became, like, an accidental welder many, many years ago.

I just kind of like, fell into it.

And I continued my schooling.

and I worked through up to like an associate's degree in welding technology at a college out in California.

And I was able to continue and I went on to become a welding engineer and then went on into project management.

So welding is just, I want to make sure they understand that welding, it's a great entry point and they can kind of take it as far as they want to go with it.

there's plenty of places to get continuing education.

And I never saw the inside of unemployment office in my, in my entire working career because I was always able to weld.

And it's a great, it's a portable career.

They can go anywhere with it.

And it's just great to hear that that they sound like they're really having a good time and that they all feel like they've picked a good career.

So just want to encourage him just to keep going because like I say, the sky is literally the limit with what you, what you folks can do.

So that's, that's all I got.

>> Well, Paul, thank you very much.

And I know they appreciate that.

Lily.

Hugi and Hani Ali Honesty Harmon are here and they are students who are going to tell us a little about their own background here.

So Lily is a student in the Metal Trades Program at Genesee Valley Boces and Mount Morris.

And you're how old now?

>> I am 16 years old.

>> 16.

And what do you see for your future?

What do you want to do right now?

>> I find myself welding anywhere.

Honestly, as long as I'm welding somewhere.

>> You want to be.

>> A welder?

Oh, yeah.

>> Get right on that microphone for me, Lily.

There you go.

So when did you first when was your first weld?

How old were you?

>> I was 15.

>> So last year.

Okay.

>> And it was during one of Stacey's classes.

And I had gone to it thinking.

Knowing nothing about welding.

Like I knew I wanted to do it.

I knew it was a men based job, but after her class, I just knew it was what I wanted to do.

So.

>> So why did you go to that class in the first place?

Did someone sign you up or did you hear about it?

>> well, my mom sort of showed it to me and said, I know you said something about welding.

This is a trans woman welding class where you get to go with a different girls, so you're not around guys, you're not scared.

And I fell for it and never went back.

>> Did you, when that first day happened and you're walking in, did you think, okay, maybe there's something to learn here, but this really is mostly a boys and men's field.

>> Kind of.

Because I don't want to say like 100%, but yes, like I, I was known to it being for men, like men were better at it.

Men are good at it.

That's what they did.

They worked with their hands, like working with their hands was a man thing.

So as soon as I tried it, I knew that it was not only for men.

>> It didn't take long.

>> Right.

>> Why do you find it so satisfying?

>> I find it as therapy.

>> As therapy.

>> I do like my life shuts out.

Like when I'm welding, my helmet goes down.

I don't think of anything else.

But welding.

And so it's it's a therapy because it shuts everything from your life out and you're just focusing on that one thing.

>> And you have to, I mean, you really have to be focused.

>> I imagine.

when you're.

Yes.

>> You can't be sort of multitasking focused, texting somebody, focusing on something else.

No.

That's pretty.

What an interesting comment that is.

how's she been doing?

>> Oh my God, she's she's fantastic.

I mean, her energy is just incredible.

And she hits the ground running.

She'll come in and help me prep parts for classes.

So she runs the chop saw and cuts pieces and grinds things and and then she assists during workshops, you know, because what I do is pretty, pretty basic.

And you know, we're picking everyone's picking it up pretty quickly.

So she knows plenty to be able to give someone a little pointer on how to, how to do it, and then to be able to show other young women that are coming to have a young, another young woman as a mentor to show you is just the coolest thing.

We're just passing it on.

>> Well, Lily, here's the thing about the chop saw is I don't know what that is.

>> Oh.

>> So can you tell me a little bit about the different, well, equipment you use?

>> Well, a chop saw is basically a saw that goes it has a handle, and you just push downward and the wheel cuts the metal itself.

So you don't have to put a bunch of pressure on it.

It's a car buying wheel, so it just spins and spins and cuts the metal itself.

So that basically makes it a smooth cut and has a little rigid.

So you have to grind that off eventually, but it's those sparkliest loudest tool in the in the shop.

>> So if you're watching on YouTube, you can see some of the photos and how quickly did you pick up on the terminology?

How quickly did you pick up on the equipment?

Did you feel like it came fast?

>> You.

Yeah, very quickly.

Having Stacey pushed me to just go for it.

Like you can't have it shown.

You have to just you have to just do it.

Like that helps a lot.

Like just doing something and having that fear, obviously in the back of your head, but you just got to do it to be able to get on it quickly.

And that's what I did.

>> And you think you do want to do this for a career?

>> I do.

>> And she's going to be able to.

You think Stacey.

Yeah, absolutely.

>> I I'm hoping she's never gonna leave my studio.

>> I don't think I will.

>> Before we kind of talk about some of the other there's a piece in the New York Times about what recent college graduates think about the job market.

And I want to ask the students about that.

Before we do that, let me get honesty story.

Honesty Harmon is a student at Edison Tech.

And Jim Putnam, the welding teacher there.

So you guys know each other, huh?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah, we know each other.

>> She's a great kid.

>> Tell me.

Tell me a little bit about honesty, Jim.

>> Well, honesty is actually one of Mr.

Collins's students.

She's a machinist, but she was with me for ten weeks as a 10th grader, and she's just awesome.

She's an awesome kid.

she's probably what we would consider louder than most.

but she is a wonderful, wonderful person and brightens up everybody's day.

And she's been working with, we have a club basically women in welding that Stacey's been part of for ever and she's always been there for that.

And she's, she's just a good egg.

She's a smart girl and, and she's going to make it.

>> What do you think Stacey?

>> Oh yeah.

It's been a year since we've seen each other, but definitely one of the, the exuberant young ladies in the room and jumps right in and make stuff happen.

>> So how old are you now?

Honesty.

>> I'm 16.

>> Okay.

And why did you end up in these kind of classes and do you have you naturally gravitated toward this or is this recent for you?

>> I took it like, it's like different things in my school.

Like it's different trades.

Like there's carpentry and stuff like that.

And I chose like Putnam thing or whatever because I just like, I don't like working with wood because it's.

Yeah, but I like working with metal.

It's really fun.

I thought, were.

>> You gonna say wood is boring compared to metal?

>> Yes.

You were gonna say what is boring?

Working with wood is boring.

What is boring?

It's not as fun as metal.

>> For all the wood enthusiasts out there, we apologize, but this is a pro metal panel.

Today.

is it satisfying?

>> Yes.

>> What what what is fun or satisfying about.

>> The work?

like when I work on the lathes, it's really fun because like, it's like the way the thing the lathe goes, like it shreds it.

It's really cool in the middle and stuff like that.

It's really fun than working with wood.

>> Okay, so what do you think you want to do in the future?

>> I want to be a manual machinist, like work with lathes.

I like welding, but when I first started, like going to Putnam stuff, I was scared because I thought I was going to, like, hurt myself or something.

But once I started going to women and welding, it was way fun.

Like I actually like actually paid attention because I don't pay attention a lot.

>> This got your attention.

Yeah.

It's probably important that this has your attention, your full attention, as we talked about a little bit with Lily you were scared at first though.

Yeah.

Why?

>> Because I'm scared of fire.

Like the way like, okay, so when you're welding, like, he taught me how to.

I think MiG and Tig weld, right?

>> That's what.

>> It's called.

Yeah.

And I was scared because I didn't know how to do it.

And I was just like, I would try to rush through it instead of actually paying attention to what he was showing us.

And when I was with Miss Stacey, right when we were like doing women in welding, she actually showed me how and I actually paid attention instead of trying to rush through everything.

>> Okay.

And ever since then you feel more comfortable with it?

>> Yes.

It's way funner.

>> At least not wood.

so you got a sense for what you want to do.

I saw Stacey react when you said what kind of machinist?

>> A manual.

>> Manual machinist.

Does that make sense to you?

>> It does.

It's not something I'm personally familiar with, but it's impressive to, to to me, it reminds me of me when I knew I knew exactly what I wanted to do.

And I love seeing young women feel that way.

>> Mr.

Putnam, how do you feel about manual machinist?

How does that line up?

>> you know, it's more interesting than running a CNC.

I, I just, I'm not a machine guy.

but I've worked in companies that certainly had them and the CNC operators, they just stand there all day, go from one to the other to the other.

>> Just pretend for a moment.

I don't know what CNC is.

>> pneumatically controlled computers.

>> Computers.

>> Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

There you go.

>> So anyway yeah, so it's all push buttons or everything's programmed.

You put a part in push a button.

It runs.

Meanwhile, you go to the next machine, get that one going, then you come back, take that part out, put another one in.

And to me, it's never been anything that floated my boat.

the, the welding aspect was you made the part from scratch.

You were, you were welding parts together.

But the manual machining is when you just take parts simply from scratch and start building them on the, on the lathe or the mills or, or whatever.

>> But it's great.

>> It's, it's a lot more thought.

>> So that's great.

and it's really impressive to hear honesty and Lily talk with such facility about the machines, the tools, the, the jobs that may be in the future.

So what I want to do is I want to take a brief break and when to come back and talk to all five of our panelists about some of where I think I, I think a lot of people are seeing prognostication about the job market, about the way A.I.

may make it hard for college grads to get jobs and things like that.

And I wonder if honesty and Lily and girls and young women like them feel like they found something, something that's kind of A.I.

proof, something that could be really, really durable for a future career.

So we'll come back in just a moment and we'll take more of your feedback to on the other side on Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson Thursday on the next Connections are G and E joins us in the first hour.

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They'll answer your questions in our second hour, a project to turn more students into historians and to think about independence and what this country means.

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>> All right, some some emails from guests and I apologize to honesty, but we've got a woodworker who sent us a note here.

So this is from Pam.

Pam says, I am one of the only two women who work in my wood shop.

While it's the best job environment I've ever worked in, I constantly have to curb my comments, dumb them down, and turn criticism into innocent questions.

And still the men I work with are so easily offended.

Do your guests experience this too?

I'm going to direct this to Stacey Mrva.

>> Oh boy.

well, there's a reason that my workshops are geared towards women.

I enjoy that environment very much.

>> yeah, I mean, I, I've encountered a lot of men over my career that I've, I've connected with and, and had to work with.

And to be honest, my experience has been wonderful.

I found that I show up into a space, I, I belong there, I carry myself like I belong there.

And when I don't know something, I'll ask a question.

I have no qualms about doing that.

And over the years, I've been able to develop some great relationships with my steel suppliers and my gas suppliers and all the people that I need to connect with.

>> But do people have men treated you differently because you're a woman?

Do you think?

>> I personally haven't really felt that.

In a way, I guess, because like I said, I think it's just in the way that I've carried myself.

I was a very, you know, strong headed, stubborn young woman right out of college who was like, this is what I want to do and I'm going to do it.

>> The men are frankly scared of you.

>> Maybe that might be the case.

Yeah, yeah, I'm okay with that.

>> Yeah.

That's good.

>> That's good.

>> Pam, thank you for that.

And I'm going to say woodworking is also cool, even if honesty doesn't want to do it.

let me also let's grab a couple more here.

got an interesting comment from Andrew who said when I visited a bicycle factory in China in 2005, all of the welders of aluminum bike frames were frames were women.

When I asked why that was, they said that women were more conscientious and produced frames with fewer defects.

All right.

I mean, that's a I mean, that kind of Jim Putnam didn't go that far.

But Jim was saying, you know, girls are doing great in his classes.

And right off the bat, they're sometimes even a little more conscientious than the boys.

>> They are.

They, I, I boys are crazy.

boys be stupid.

but in reality the, the women are more conscientious.

God, you know, one of these days I'm going to try some new teeth or something that lets me talk, but no, they, they seem to do a better job.

They're more focused.

and we were talking earlier about maybe why that is, and it's that they've had all these, this practice of doing their eyelashes and lipstick and.

>> Even just braiding your hair and like that smaller motor.

>> Those fine details.

>> Yeah, exactly.

Not, you know, not not teasing about it, but the actual reality of the fine motor skills.

>> Yeah.

I mean, Stacey, you don't find that to be a sexist observation, do you?

No, no.

>> I don't take it in stride.

>> No.

Like, I mean, I it makes sense.

It actually makes sense.

So so thank you for that, Andrew.

And Lenore, friend from Finger Lakes Community College, sends us a note just saying, you know, regarding the idea of the fear of heat and fire in welding.

FLQ is tackling welding with simulation technology to train people in basic techniques.

Without that fear, students wear a welding helmet and grasp a torch like tool.

Both are connected by cables to a computer running simulation software, so that's out at Finger Lakes Community College.

>> I've heard of that.

Yeah, yeah, it's it's a cool program because then you can give people the experience without having to have the whole space to, to show you how to weld.

>> Now Lily was shaking her head.

You're like, you don't want the simulation stuff.

Do you want the real deal?

Is that what that was?

Okay.

>> Yeah.

I feel like that's quite weird.

>> Listen, it's just something for everybody here.

and I. I saw the phone ring in there, so if if you got comments questions 844295 talk as we talk about women in the trades, women in welding and more with a really great panel here.

and in a moment I'm going to bring back Mary Guldenschuh from Livingston County's workforce development.

I want to ask about the story that I read in The New York Times.

And so here you go.

This is some recent data.

The unemployment rate for college graduates aged 22 to 27 is now 5.6%.

The national average unemployment rate is 4.2%.

So the college the recent college graduates in their 20s are unemployed.

A third of the time.

More than just average American adults.

They're not getting jobs.

And for those who were employed, more than 40% have jobs that don't typically require college degrees.

So they're working, but it's not based on their degree.

It is a big problem.

And if everything you read, frankly, you don't have to read it.

Listen to the A.I.

companies.

Why does A.I.

polling?

Why is it so bad?

Because the A.I.

companies in this country are telling people, we're making these incredible products.

It will probably take your job, it might make you poor, but you should support us.

That's not great PR that is largely what they're saying.

And people hear that.

They believe that.

And I'm curious to know if if the students in the room, first of all, have heard any of that, or are you worried about that?

Or when you think about the future.

So, Lily, let me start with you.

In general, do you have a positive or negative view of A.I.?

>> I have a negative view towards A.I., okay.

>> Y negative.

>> Because I feel it's very unnecessary.

Like there's a lot of things we can do without A.I.

And there's a lot of things we can do with A.I.

I get that, but A.I.

is.

Not.

I'm trying to think of the word, but it's just not human.

Like it's it's not real.

Like it's fake.

Yeah.

And they're taking things from us that shouldn't be taken, especially a welding job.

That to me is very absurd because I don't think A.I.

can weld as best as a human would be able to.

>> So on that point, Stacey, is there any concern with A.I.

encroaching on your field?

>> Well, especially for being an artist, I don't I. don't think so.

Not no.

Absolutely not.

Yeah.

And there's so much in the trades where you need a human being.

Like, you know, we're talking about like, you know, women maybe struggling to do some of the heavier things, but we need women to go down inside those pipes to weld.

You need tinier people to get in those places that other people can't.

And a machine can't.

You need a human being in there to do it.

So that's not going away.

>> Yeah, you certainly hear about plumbing being pretty A.I.

proof.

and a lot of trades jobs are viewed as more A.I.

proof.

Are you worried at all that A.I.

is taking future away?

Lily.

>> I don't I don't have a fear of them taking over because I don't necessarily think they're getting that close to, but A.I.

is getting out of hand already.

So there could be a possibility.

>> But but you feel like you'll have a job in welding one way or another.

Yes.

Okay.

All right.

I mean, that's important.

What about you?

Honesty.

A.I.

positive or negative?

>> Negative.

>> Okay.

Why negative?

>> Because I feel like it's just slow.

Like there's no point in having A.I.

If everyone could think on their own, no matter how much we look up stuff, everyone still has their own mind and everything.

>> So well, for now, we do.

I mean, I would like us to have our own minds in the future.

I'm with you there though.

Like if we all could do things on our own, we could think for ourselves.

We can reason for ourselves.

Do we need the A.I.

now?

Are you worried about A.I.

taking jobs away in the future?

>> Nope.

>> Okay.

>> Why not?

Because certain things require humans to do it.

Like hands on project.

You cannot use A.I.

to do something.

No matter how much people use ChatGPT.

you still need a human to do that because yeah, we're just human.

>> So you're going to be a machinist and you're going to find work.

A.I.

is not going to take your job.

>> No.

>> Okay.

You know, Mary Guldenschuh, who's deputy director of the Livingston County Workforce Development and Youth Bureau, I find that story on the college grads really interesting because for a long time, college grads had lower unemployment rates than the National.

They were mostly finding work in their fields.

Obviously there's exceptions, but this is a very big switch in a very short amount of time.

And I don't know if that means we have to rethink what we're talking to students about when it comes to college or what it means.

I wonder what you think.

First of all, it means Mary.

>> Well, certainly.

when I was in high school, they really pushed, college education and, you know, so the pendulum swings one way and then they realize that in the trades, people are aging out they're retiring out of that.

And there's not people to take their place.

And so I think certainly we should be talking about both.

Both are needed.

but we need people in the trades to keep our houses running, keep our businesses running and, and all of those types of things that, that, short term vocational training can prepare a workforce cheaper and quicker.

And it's definitely a viable career.

When you look at the, the data on what wages, the prevailing wages for these different types of trades.

>> In general.

Mary, do you guys counsel people in certain career directions as more stable A.I.

or not, but in just in general, more stable careers or the job markets are better in certain fields?

>> Yeah.

There is through the Department of Labor who we're co-located with.

There is the Finger Lakes area priority occupations and what you see when you look, up what those priority occupations are, they give you a score of high, medium and low.

And the trades work in construction maintenance mechanic, auto tech welders is listed as a medium priority in the Finger Lakes region.

And it just, it, it won't be.

I don't feel like back to your A.I.

question that it's going to be impacted by A.I.

because you need the human judgment when you're doing these types of trades out in the field.

>> And you know, Mary, one of the things I find really difficult as a journalist, and I wonder if you feel this way in workforce development, is that A.I.

is moving fast enough that I don't feel like I can hang with it, like I'm not keeping up with how fast it is moving.

When I'm someone like me, you know?

ChatGPT comes out in September 2023.

I was hesitant to even look at the thing.

And then you eventually feel like you have to understand it, but by then there's different iterations.

There's Claude, there's a lot of different programs out there.

And the speed of, of, of agents, A.I.

agents being integrated into work platforms is really fast here.

How do you keep up with it?

How do you feel like you can counsel people in the right direction when things are moving this fast?

>> Yeah.

I don't know how I can counsel it, counsel with it because we don't use it in the county.

Right.

And just to the extent of Google I could see how it can be helpful to make my life a little, a little easier.

but I, I feel like the Giuffre for me, the jury is still out.

I'm just watching and waiting and hopefully, hopefully, I can learn a bit more about it, but I feel like I have to use it in order to be able to understand it.

>> Well, let me get back to some feedback from listeners.

Dan and Farmington next on the phone.

Hi, Dan.

Go ahead.

>> Hey, I'm with local 13.

So we're the plumbers, pipefitters, welders and Hvac service techs in Rochester, New York.

And we have a five year apprenticeship program.

there's no cost to the member when they're taking the program at the end of five years, when they graduate and become a journey worker, they're making $156,480 a year in wages and benefits, we get two different retirement plans, full paid health care.

And in our check, we're making $48 an hour.

we need people.

We're short welders across the country.

Our union specifically has 38 projects that are over $1 billion where people are traveling all over the country because there's just not enough people doing the work.

And even locally the micron project that's coming to Syracuse, we're going to need 3 to 5000 pipefitters and welders on that job for ten years.

we're actively recruiting women.

we're trying to get the word out.

And I just wanted to share that information.

>> Wow.

first of all, I mean, those numbers are pretty gaudy.

So if, if those numbers are what they are, why is it hard to find people to do the work, then?

>> a lot of people do not want to get their hands dirty.

The stigma is going away.

But there is that stigma that if you get into a skilled trade, possibly you could make it in college.

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> You know, that kind of thing that's changing.

That's been a lot better.

We do a lot of recruiting out in high schools.

Boces programs.

And it's great now because the guidance counselors are inviting us out.

We're in the past, we never would have even got a shot with these students.

It would have just been a local employers and colleges.

>> Dan can I.

>> Teachers, when they see what we get paid are blown away.

>> Yeah.

Can I ask you one more question about that, Dan, before I let you go?

Because I really appreciate you.

You calling in when I was growing up, similar to what some of our guests have talked about, there was a lot of counseling for students in my school to go to college, go to college, go to college.

And it was like, well, if you can't, then there's the trades or maybe there's a Boces program.

That's what it felt like growing up.

And I'm not comfortable with that.

I'm not I don't think that's great, but that's what it felt like.

Now it's almost like that is flipped on its head.

And there's kind of a last laugh going on where it's like, oh, I mean, like, no one is laughing at the college students who can't find work.

In fact, we should probably talk to more of them on Connections producer Megan Mack.

We should find recent college grads and see what it's like for them, but it is not easy.

Meanwhile, if you're in the skilled trades, I mean, I'm not saying it's perfect, but listen to what we're hearing this hour.

It's pretty remarkable.

and does it feel to you, Dan, like things have kind of turned on its head there?

>> It does, it does.

It's totally dunno, 180 and it's fantastic.

It's great.

And it's just a, it's a job that A.I.

is not going to take.

Just like your previous caller said, you can go anywhere in the country.

So I'm, I'm an Hvac service tech.

My wife's a registered nurse.

We can move anywhere in the world.

>> Amazing.

>> Be employed, you know, within a week.

And it's a great feeling.

And I've made a fantastic living and I got a wonderful retirement waiting for me.

And the union's been the best thing that ever happened to me.

>> Dan, you are an evangelist for it, man.

There you go.

There it is.

Thank you.

Dan, I really appreciate that.

So just briefly around the table before I grab our next phone call.

he says he thinks there's still a little bit of a stigma, like, well, you get your hands dirty.

Is it the kind of work you want to do?

Stacy?

Any problem getting your hands dirty?

>> Oh my God, no.

Absolutely not.

>> You love getting your hands dirty.

>> I love it, I love it.

This is.

>> The most pretty cleaned up for me.

I'm normally wearing overalls and a bandana and yeah, steel all over my face.

And I love it.

I love it.

>> Okay, Lilly Hugi any concern with getting your hands dirty with work?

>> No, not at all.

>> You like it?

>> Yeah.

Well, it all started when I was a kid playing softball.

I always loved to slide into the dirt and get dirty.

And now getting my hands dirty, doing something.

It's even more fun.

>> I coach kids like you.

It's like those white pants now have a grass stain.

Well, I wanted to slide.

I want you want to get dirty.

Nothing was fun.

Getting dirty.

Honesty.

What about you?

Any concern with getting dirty at work?

>> Nope.

>> That's what you were talking about, Jim.

Just straight to the point.

With honesty, you never have to wonder what honesty thinks.

There.

And for you, Mr.

Putnam, any concern over the years with getting dirty at work?

>> Well, yeah, I've kind of been a fashion diva.

>> You're a fashion diva.

Yeah.

If you're watching on YouTube.

>> Yeah, absolutely.

Oh my God, I got a stain.

>> no.

>> you know, and you don't have to get super dirty.

You know, that's the big thing.

It's a lot of people think, oh, my God, some of these guys, I, and I shouldn't say this, but some of these guys roll in the dirt for some reason.

I don't know why, but there's a lot of guys that do a lot of good work all day long.

And you know, they're they're still presentable, you know, so it's not it's not a filthy, dirty job.

>> Presentable is in the eye of the holder.

Who cares if.

you're you're working, you're working.

Everybody okay?

Dan, thank you for that phone call.

Let me grab another call.

This is Robert in Webster.

Go ahead.

Robert, go ahead.

>> Hey, Evan.

I really love your show.

I just wanted you to know.

>> Thanks.

>> When I went to school, there wasn't a Boces.

And college wasn't really on my plate, so I took up hairdressing.

My dad was a barber, and that provided an unbelievable lifestyle for me.

For 40 years.

And I think if you don't want to get dirty and you want to have a good profession, you can meet a lot of wonderful people, express yourself creatively and continue learning throughout your life.

Hairdressing is not a bad one.

>> Well, I hear you there, Robert.

And in many ways, this we could turn the rest of this program into College isn't working for people.

What else is?

And I'm really glad to hear it's been a good career for you, Robert.

That's great.

It's a, you know, it's a very personal career.

You get to know a lot of great people, I'm sure.

And I'm glad you've done well.

And I want everybody to do well.

I want everybody to have opportunity.

Part of what brought us here today is, you know, hearing about the work that Stacy has done.

not only with her own art and creation, but also as an instructor and bringing more girls into the trades.

In fact, it was, I think state Senator Pam Pam helming had something nice to say about you.

Sorry about this, but I'm going to read this from Senator helming says Stacey was recently honored for her work.

here's a here's more on Stacey.

Bold, authentic, and unapologetically fearless.

Stacey's carved out her place in a field long dominated by men, transforming steel into powerful works of art.

But what makes her truly exceptional is how she shares that strength with others.

Through her work at Ironwood Studios, Stacey puts.

Stacey, puts a torch in the hands of women of all ages, veterans, individuals rebuilding their lives, helping them discover confidence, independence and new purpose.

She doesn't just weld metal, she forges courage and hope.

That's nice.

>> Wow.

that's very cool.

>> It's pretty good, huh?

And Lily, you want to endorse that message?

>> I do.

She is a wonderful person.

She is the person who taught me how to weld.

Basically is what I want to say.

Because she taught me how to be a better person.

She taught me to learn how to share your skills, if that makes sense.

Share what you know so other people can know as well.

Sharing a skill is is important and it's it's nice getting along with a bunch of different other people and everything like that.

Seeing a bunch of women getting along over a male dominated thing is especially fun as well.

>> Well, before we go, then, let's make sure all of our guests have a chance to tell you if you are interested or if you know someone who's interested.

A student, a young girl, a woman looking for a career.

We focused on women today because, as we said at the outset, the numbers are really, really still almost shocking how few women there are in the trades.

And we're talking in the mid to upper 90 percentile of men in most of the trades, and that is slowly changing.

CNBC had a big report on this recently.

It's changing but it's not changing quickly.

It's kind of drip by drip.

More women every year.

And it's through programs like this.

So Mary Guldenschuh with Livingston County's workforce development, what would you tell people if they are interested in this kind of career?

What should they know about this?

>> Well, I'm associated with a a, a project called glow with your hands.

And if you go to W-w-w glow with your hands, you'll see that this consortium that I participate in brings the trades to the students.

Once a year at the Batavia Fairgrounds in Genesee County.

And so that would be my first stop because the website has a lot of great resources about all the careers in agriculture, manufacturing and the skilled trades.

>> If you want to be in a classroom or in the studio there, like honesty and Lily have been with Stacey and they endorse this.

They say you should.

How do they find you?

>> you can head to Ironwood Studios, inc.com, and you can find a list of all of our workshops there.

And you can find our social medias there.

And we'll be offering more free teen workshops for girls in Livingston County throughout the year.

So if you keep an eye on that, we'll get you posted and get you signed up.

>> And as we close here, Jim Putnam.

Putnam, who teaches welding at Edison Tech.

It seems to me that the days of of teachers and school districts and society telling girls that you can't do this, that seems to be ending.

I mean, I don't know if it's fully gone, but that seems to be ending.

What do you think?

>> Oh, for sure.

It's it's that part is over now.

It's kind of like we we want to find these young girls that are eighth graders, ninth graders that that can come to Edison.

We can teach them the skills that we have there.

We have a wonderful set of programs at Edison, and we're trying to, to get the the eighth graders that are making a decision on where to go to school in the city, get them there to, to learn a trade.

it's just we've been blessed.

I mean, we've been blessed with the CTE crew that we have there.

And, and the administration actually has been changing around a little bit.

And that's wonderful.

Now, so this is a really hot time to be at Edison.

>> I know they feel lucky to have you.

I know the community feels lucky to have Stacey Mrva out at Ironwood Studios, Inc.

and I hope listeners, this has been a valuable hour listening to the stories especially, I want to thank honesty and Lily for sharing your stories.

Future leaders in the field, a machinist, a what what kind of machinist.

>> Manual?

>> A manual machinist, of course.

Yes.

thank you for sharing it.

Thanks for being here.

Good luck to you.

Although I don't think you need the luck.

Lilly Hugi.

Good luck to you.

Thank you, future welder.

Thanks for being here as well.

Thank you.

Our thanks to Mary Guldenschuh from Livingston County.

Mary, thank you for joining us this hour.

>> Thank you for having me.

>> Stacey Mrva out at Ironwood Studios continued good work to you.

I know you're doing great things in the community.

Thanks for sharing your story.

Thank you.

Next time we see you, you'll probably be in a bandana.

Maybe.

But you know, great hour this hour from all of us at Connections.

Thanks for being with us.

We're back with you tomorrow on member supported public media.

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