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[MOTIVATIONAL MUSIC] - Hi, everyone.

Steve Adubato.

We kick off the program with a really important conversation about the long-term effects of COVID.

And the person who will share with us his expertise is Dr. William Hu, who is the director of the Center for Healthy Aging Research and Chief Cognitive Neurology at Rutgers Health.

Good to see you, Doctor.

- Thank you for having me, Steve.

- You got it.

Doctor, you and your team did an in-depth study of people with long COVID.

A, what were the most significant findings, and B, what's the most important thing for us to be aware of, please?

- Well, number one, the most important finding is that long COVID is not Alzheimer's disease.

At the beginning of the pandemic, after very mild infections, many people started coming to us asking, "Did I suddenly develop Alzheimer's disease," with the memory issues and concentration issues, what we often refer to now as brain fog.

And Alzheimer's disease typically takes about 10 to 20 years to develop.

And then, so it was very important for us to reassure these people through an objective test that even though they had memory issues, it wasn't Alzheimer's disease.

But we also build additional research on this effort and discovered that the signature for long COVID really reflects a some sort of chronic infection with the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

A lot of people say that this may be that people have recovered, developed autoimmune disease.

We didn't find that.

We really found that the signature looks more like acute infection.

- So Doctor, your study found that 50% of the people that you examined improved after two years.

What about the other 50%?

- That's the part we don't know about.

I think we're hopeful that some of these people will have a slower recovery.

Some of the people have recurrent infections.

And so you may have heard that the more infections you have, that perhaps that the longer the symptoms will stick around.

However, if it's true that this is a chronic infection, we may need to develop some sort of treatment strategy for them to help them recover.

- So help us on this, the actual methodology, if you will.

How many patients did you look at?

- We look at hundreds of patients, over about 300, but then only a subgroup of people underwent the spinal fluid collection.

- So, a subset, quote, unquote, "donated spinal fluid," but they also went, underwent a brain MRI?

- About 20% of the 300 people had a brain MRI and then again, a subset of that group had the spinal fluid examination.

- How'd you pick these people?

Did they select themselves?

- They volunteered.

Most of the time, the people will come to us for attention and they, we first got them through the Rutgers Post-COVID Recovery Clinic.

We al we also recruited from the community.

- We're also talking to your colleague, Dr. Perry Halkitis about whole range of issues connected, who's connected to Rutgers Health, who's gonna talk about a whole range of issues connected to not just COVID, but public health issues.

But I'm gonna ask you a question I was, I'm gonna ask him as well later today.

So it's not your expertise, but you're a scientist and I want to have your perspective.

We need to have your perspective on the fact that a significant number of Americans do not trust science, and medicine, and research.

And it was in place before COVID, exacerbated in light of COVID.

Where am I going with this, Doctor, and is it significant from your perspective as a scientist?

I don't trust the Rutgers' study.

I don't trust the government funded study.

There's a conspiracy here.

I'll do what I wanna do.

The mask, nah.

COVID, not that real.

You say?

- Well, I think that I, we see this when we we're both out recruiting participants for studies, as well as is in seeing patients with established diseases in clinic.

New therapies, new tests, why should we trust them?

I think scientists bear a responsibility to communicate clearly and to demonstrate some transparency with the community that we serve.

I think for a long time, scientists did science outta ivory tower and that doesn't work anymore, because that destroys any type of trust that may have been there before COVID.

So, I think it's really important that we communicate with the people living with the disease, as well as their family members, what it is we're trying to do, and then have them be partners in a research journey, not just being subject.

- Along those lines, and I don't, your study did not look at this, but I wonder if it's tied in somehow.

There are people who believe, millions of Americans believe, that there are significant long-term downside effects of the respective COVID vaccines.

What studies have you seen in that regard and what do they tell us, Doctor?

- Well, I think that's very complicated to study that aspect.

And then, there're being a lot of reports- - Why?

Why is it hard?

- Because we don't have a great registry of people before and after they've received the vaccines.

And very similar to what you asked earlier, a lot of the vaccine side effect reporting systems are voluntary and people only report symptoms when they feel it's related to vaccines.

There are a lot of people who don't feel the symptoms related to vaccines or people may feel that it is something entirely unrelated, like a car accident is related to vaccine.

- So, a lot of it's self-reporting?

- There's a lot of self-reporting and there's a lot of self-selection.

- Okay, go back to your study again.

Differentiate for us, Doctor, between brain fog and quote, unquote, "normal forgetfulness."

Like how would I know for someone in their 60s, who had COVID, forgetfulness over where my keys, oh, I have long-term memory issues, I've got brain... How do I, how does someone know the difference?

- Well, number one is a change from baseline.

And many people who develop COVID-related brain fog will say clearly their memory's different before versus after COVID.

So if you develop COVID in January and how you feel in February is distinctly different from December, that's a difference.

And if it's a gradual change, you know, from two years ago to now, it's probably more likely to be age-related changes.

And the other aspect is that when you hear about, people talk about long COVID symptoms, they share some very interesting commonalities.

They don't say that they're that forgetful and they just say, they say that it takes them a long time to do the same thing that would take them very little time before.

And sometimes people say it's like thinking through molasses.

- Real quick before I let you go.

Advice to anyone trying to avoid, whatever the heck that means, getting long COVID.

Are there any... Paxlovid help in that?

I mean, what, if anything, can we do if you get...

I know the best way is to avoid getting COVID.

Not always a guarantee, even if you're doing all the right things, please.

- Yeah, and I think the best thing again is to prevent getting COVID.

And I know that sounds elementary, but it really is key and there are some recent data to suggest that getting Paxlovid treatment early on may reduce the likelihood of long COVID, but I think that remains to be validated.

So the only thing that is for sure is to avoid the initial COVID infection.

- As we do this program, my wife had COVID last week and we stayed away from each other for seven days.

We're fortunate enough to be able to create that distance.

I don't want to get it again, no guarantees, but we have to do everything we can to avoid getting COVID in the first place.

Dr. Hu, I wanna thank you so much for joining us.

We appreciate it.

- Thank you, Steve, for having me.

- You got it.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

To watch more Think Tank with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- We're pleased to be joined by Mussab Ali, who is Senior Advisor of an organization called Vote 16 USA.

Mussab, good to see you.

- Steve, thank you for having me.

- You got it.

The website's up.

What is this organization and why is it so important?

- Well, the organization is focused on lowering the voting age to 16 for local elections across the country, I think that young people need to be involved and engaged, and I think 16 is the right age to do it.

- How'd you get into this?

- So I actually first ran for office when I was 19 years old in Jersey City and was lucky enough to be elected in when I was 20 in 2017.

And ever since then, I've really been interested in getting young people more involved in politics.

I went up to law school at Harvard.

When I graduated, I wanted to do some sort of electoral reform work and Vote 16 USA was hiring their first ever director.

So I applied for the role.

I got it, and here we are today.

- Interesting, so a long time ago, at the age of 25, I ran for and was elected to the state legislature.

And part of the reason for that is I grew up in a certain kind of family where political engagement and involvement was the norm.

What's your excuse?

- So I'm actually, I'm actually the opposite, Steve.

My family was not politically involved at all.

And I actually was going into college, very ready to go into medical school.

I had no interest in politics.

This was, I was not one of those kids that was part of the student council or any of those sorts of things.

But you know, it's, it was 2016 I think that really got me engaged, right.

I saw, you know, Trump running for office.

I saw Bernie Sanders running for office, the Clinton election, and it really taught me the importance of politics and the importance of getting involved.

And I said to myself like, you know what, what am I qualified for?

I was 19-year-old at the time, and I figured, why not run for school board?

- So right now we actually did something talking about Newark.

Newark is the law in Newark allows for 16 year olds to vote in school board elections?

- Yeah, that's right.

That was passed this year.

- Not city council?

- Not yet.

No.

- Not state legislature.

- Nope.

- Not mayor.

- Nope.

- Okay so tell us.

16 year olds should be able to, in your view, 16 year olds should be able to vote in which elections and why?

- Well, I think all local elections, because it impacts them the most.

I think the argument for local elections is that 16 year olds like have to deal with the day to day that sort of happens, right?

So when it comes to the schools, when it comes to what's happening within their city, like these are all things that they're very closely impacted by.

And so I think that they should have the right to vote.

Look, they can start working when they're 16.

They can start driving when they're 16.

I don't see why they shouldn't have the right to vote.

- Why do you separate national and national elections from local?

- Look, I think there's a lot of hesitancy when it comes to national elections.

And I think that, you know, in order to do it at the national level, you need to get a constitutional amendment passed.

And I think right now we're at a point in our country where it's really tough to make, sort of make that happen.

So for me, I think the state and local is really the most important part.

And I, again, I think that's what impacts your life more so than even national elections.

- Let me ask you this, it's so interesting on college campuses, in high schools, there are a whole range of protests having to do with the war in Gaza.

We're taping this on July 16th, we hope and pray the war ends and, but we don't know what's gonna happen.

And one of the things that struck me was that a whole range, a high percentage of young people who were asked on college campuses, high school campuses, what exactly are you protesting, and why a high percentage of them appeared not to really understand the particulars of the war in Gaza and what exactly they were looking for.

They would just say ceasefire.

And to me, I will say this and I will not editorialize.

It was striking because there appeared to be a lack of understanding of the complex nuances of the history of the Middle East and where we are now and what needs to be done moving forward.

Question, how informed do you think most 16 year olds are, 17 year olds are on the issues that they appear to have very strong opinions on?

- We'll Steve, I wonder if we can make the same calculation about the average voter, right?

I mean I think when it comes to- - Hundred percent true.

- (Inaudible) I mean, are we taking tests of people who are in their thirties and forties about how much they are paying attention, and to be honest, right, like young people on social media get to see information and get to see stuff firsthand that maybe some people who are in their seventies or eighties are never gonna be able to understand.

- But social media is the primary information source, That doesn't concern you?

- So it does concern me, right?

And I think there's a lot of misinformation that exists.

But the same way that we talk about that misinformation for young people, I mean, look, I have grandmothers and grandfathers who are sharing around some of the stuff on the internet that's just unbelievable, right?

And they believe it as well.

And we don't say we should take away their right to vote.

That they shouldn't have the ability to be part of the decision making process.

I think what's more important is informing the public, making sure people understand misinformation and making sure that they're well informed when they go into the ballot box.

How the heck do we engage younger people when so many people in public life at every level, but particularly state and national level are really old?

- Well, Steve, and I think this is the point of this piece of legislation, right, is allowing young people to vote, to feel like they are part of that process, and especially at the local level, is I think really where we can make that shift happen.

- Where's the legislation right now?

So right now state lawmakers have introduced the bill, the governor's come out in favor of it.

So Senator Mukerji and Senator (Inaudible) have introdiced it in the Senate.

There's a co-sponsor bill in the assembly.

So right now it's moving through committee, and what this bill would do is it would allow every 16-year-old in the entire state of New Jersey to be able to start voting in local elections, and part of the reason I really emphasize the importance of this is when they start voting at 16, they become lifetime voters.

So in Maryland, in 2013 in Tacoma Park, they started this project and they've been tracking these voters, 16 year olds who start voting, they become people who vote when they're 16, when they're 17, when they're 18, when they're 19.

Especially at local elections, which we know are super critical.

- Define local, are you talking about not just school board, but municipal council?

- Exactly.

Municipal council statewide.

They become, they get in the habit of voting, right?

And I think that is such an important thing to inform our young people about.

- Real quick, you said Maryland.

What other states allow 16 year olds to vote in local elections?

- So in Maryland there's a couple of cities, you have a city in Vermont, and then in California you have Berkeley and Oakland, California that also allow 16 year olds to vote.

- But no state, New Jersey would be the first state in the nation to allow 16 year olds to vote in local elections.

Is that fair to say?

Is that accurate?

- Yeah, it would be the first one statewide.

And keep in mind, Steve, this is part of our history.

When the voting age was lowered to 18, that actually was started right here in New Jersey.

- Mussab, you're doing important work and it's a tough fight, and I just have a feeling that for young people like you, we need young people like you, we need folks engaged, and I'm get off my soapbox after this.

If we do not have young people engaged, involved, and committed, we have a series called Democracy in Danger.

Democracy will be in greater danger than ever before if young people are not engaged, involved, and voting, and it'll play out in the legislature, and we'll follow this.

Mussab Ali, senior advisor of Vote 16 USA, cannot thank you enough for your time.

All the best to you and your colleagues.

- Thank you Steve.

Thank you for having me.

- You got it, stay with us, We'll be right back.

To watch more Think Tank with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- We're pleased to be joined by Cathy Chase, who's president of Advocates for Highway and Auto Safety.

Cathy, great to have you with us.

- Thanks, Steve.

Good to be here.

- Website is up right now.

Tell everyone what the organization is.

- Advocates for Highway and Auto Safety is a nonprofit lobbying group.

We work in Congress and throughout the country to improve traffic safety laws.

- All right.

Let's speak about traffic safety laws.

There's a new New Jersey law that has to do with supervised driving practice.

What exactly is it and why is it so significant?

- There's a new law that's going to take effect in February of next year that requires young drivers to practice for 50 hours, 10 of which have to be at night.

And it's crucially important because teenagers are one of the most dangerous driving populations, and there are steps that can be taken to make the roads safer for them and everyone sharing the roads with them.

- There's a history behind this law, and it's a tragic history.

Talk to us about the 11-year-old boy who was killed by a driver who ran a stop sign.

Is it Nikhil?

- Yes, so there are numerous tragedies, Steve, that being one of the most poignant ones because it was an 11-year-old boy, as you mentioned, but every year people are being killed on New Jersey's roads because of young, inexperienced drivers.

And the problem is that young drivers think that they know how to drive, and they also feel invincible, but yet they're lacking the skills.

And that's why we need to teach them how to drive, just like you wouldn't put a baseball player on the mounds without teaching 'em how to pitch first or you don't start Spanish with an advanced class, you start with a beginning class.

It's a similar concept, you know, with a car.

You gotta learn, you gotta take the steps to learn.

- And just to be clear, there's a foundation that was formed at West Orange High School that lobbied for this initiative, and I'm sure others did as well.

- Yes, others did, yeah.

- Lemme also talk about this.

There's a, this is an interesting issue because with our young daughter who's turning 14, as we're doing this program, we'll often have conversations about the rear seatbelt.

There's an issue around the rear seatbelt, the current laws, and what is the effort to change that law as it relates to rear seat belts, please, Cathy?

- So right now in New Jersey, the rear seatbelt law is secondary enforcement, meaning law enforcement has to observe another violation before they can pull someone over to get a ticket for not wearing your seatbelt.

We are, we together with numerous groups, including the Click Clack Front and Back group from Indian Hills High School, we've been pushing to try to get a primary enforcement rear seat belt law so that it sends the message that everyone, every passenger, every ride, should be buckled up.

In a crash it's your first line of defense.

- Now this bill has been in quote unquote committee for a few years now.

- Yes.

- Why is that?

- We're trying to build more support and more sponsors.

It just, these, you would think that these bills are common sense and protect everyone, but sometimes politics does get involved, and it can just be difficult.

The graduated driver licensing law that we were previously discussing took more than 15 years to bring across the finish line.

I know.

It's difficult, and we just, we need political leadership.

- Well, let me ask you, what would the quote unquote politics be, Cathy, around auto safety?

- You would think there shouldn't be any because everyone's on the roads, whether you're in a car or walking or bicycling, you know, it affects really everyone.

But sometimes if there are, you know, sponsors of one political party, the other party doesn't want to give a bipartisan effort.

It just can get bogged down unfortunately.

We're trying to push through that, and I think that the involvement of students really does help because it shows an engagement by young people.

And if the young people recognize that this needs to be done, certainly the adults should do so.

- Let me ask you this, your organization is a national organization, right?

- Yes.

- So we're talking about legislation in New Jersey.

Where do federal laws finish and state laws pick up and vice versa?

- Great question.

Well, Congress has what they call the power of the purse.

So they can incentivize states to pass laws or they can withhold money if states don't pass laws.

Also, federal regulations cover the vehicles themselves.

So if a car has automatic emergency braking or other, you know, systems within the car, that's under federal regulation as well.

- So let me ask you this, what is the message for all the parents out there?

Some of us have a couple of kids driving right now.

Right now as we speak, 20 and 21.

And our daughter, as I said, 14, and my older son has been driving for a while.

The fear, the panic, the anxiety that we all experience.

What advice do you have for us, them, all of us?

- Yeah, I'm right there with you.

I've got two young drivers myself, so I get it.

Practice with your children.

The more practice you give them, the better.

Make sure they know that it is not negotiable, that they always need to wear a seatbelt, and everyone in that vehicle needs to wear a seatbelt with them.

Put away the distractions.

That's, you know, young people are exactly, we're all addicted to our cell phones, and everyone thinks they can multitask, but we can't.

And you need to really focus on the driving task and that's it.

You need to get to your destination safely, and that's the way you accomplish it.

- Cathy Chase, President of Advocates for Highway and Auto Safety.

Cathy, thank you very much for joining us.

We appreciate it.

- Thanks, Steve.

- I'm Steve Adubato, that's Cathy Chase.

We thank you so much for watching.

We'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] Think Tank with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Celebrating 30 years in public broadcasting.

Funding has been provided by NJM Insurance Group.

The Turrell Fund, a foundation serving children.

Delta Dental of New Jersey.

The New Jersey Education Association.

New Jersey Children’s Foundation.

New Brunswick Development Corporation.

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

The New Jersey Economic Development Authority.

And by PSEG Foundation.

Promotional support provided by Meadowlands Chamber.

And by NJBIZ.

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