(light upbeat music) - [Announcer] Additional funding is provided by the Friends of KTWU.

- Welcome back to another episode of "Working Capital."

On today's show, we meet two entrepreneurs whose businesses would've been right at home 150 years ago, as they are now.

Join us for "Pioneering Spirits."

It's all about business on "Working Capital."

(upbeat electronic music) (upbeat electronic music) For over 20 years, R Bar B Western Apparel has provided Northeast Kansas a place to go, not just for western wear, but equestrian accessories, feed supplies, livestock trailers, jewelry, leather repair, and the list goes on.

It's the closest thing you'll find to a general store an outfitter in Shawnee and Jefferson Counties.

Today, we welcome R Bar B owner, Russ Brown.

Thank you for joining us, Russ.

- Thanks for having me.

- So this kind of business you don't see lot anymore.

I mean, most people these days have turned to like Tractor Supply and those kind of things for even their western wear.

I mean, how do you get by in this day and age with kind of, I mean, 450 saddles?

I mean, you're kind of a throwback.

- Absolutely, It's very much a niche situation.

You know, the old build it and they will come, I guess, I don't know.

I think the true thing is, first, you gotta find something you love to do and then do it, and do it the best you can do.

And hopefully people see that and they read that, you know?

And then they wanna be part of it, you know?

- Yeah, well, you started in 1998.

What was that spark?

What did you do before that?

And you know, what drove you to this?

- So, a real quick little history lesson, we started in 1998 because my son was born in 1998, my first of three boys.

And, you know, looking at daycare, at the time, it didn't make sense.

We'd been doing this as a hobby prior to.

We had a traveling trailer and we'd go to horse shows and set up and sell out of the trailer and things like that.

My son was born in August.

In July, we decided, "You know what?"

Well, we decided a little quicker than that, but we opened in July.

We got the building done, we opened in July.

We were just open like half days, evenings and weekends and things like that.

I still worked in town.

And so that was kind of the catalyst for, "Hey, let's try this, you know?

Let's see if we can keep mom and baby home and run a business at the same time."

And God bless my wife for being open and willing to do that.

But prior to that, it was kind of a hobby, you know?

I've done saddle and tack repair since middle school.

I actually put myself through college doing repair for the rodeo team.

I would do contract work for local stores, western stores.

They'd bring saddles and tack in and leave them, I'd go pick them up.

Reno'ed the basement in our rental house in Manhattan into a leather repair shop, and that's what we did, you know?

That's how we put ourselves through college.

- Okay, so, and when you first started the business then, you said you were still working somewhere else.

So are you still doing multiple careers or is it- - Yeah, but they're all for myself.

(laughs) - [Jay] Okay, well, that's a good answer.

- No, actually, my second son when he was born, he was born in August, so I've got two August boys and a May boy, and when the second son was born, he was born in August, and I actually quit my job the following January.

That was a scary process with the baby.

And I quit my job on a, well, I left my job.

It sounds horrible to say, "I quit my job."

I left my job on Friday and I flew out Sunday afternoon and went to auctioneering school in Billings, Montana.

So I'm also an auctioneer.

I do a lot of that.

Mostly charity stuff, I don't have time to have a true auction service along with everything else we do.

But every now and then, I'll fire off and do a little something-something.

But, so I did that and came home from there, and we've just been shoulder to the load ever since.

- Tell us a little about how you pick the items you carry in your store.

'Cause I'm sure you've expanded over the years.

- Absolutely.

- You know, how do you judge your growth and which direction you want to go with it?

- You know, you try to look ahead and see, especially in the clothing, in the clothing side of it.

My wife does an excellent job.

She reads a lot of magazines.

She watches when we go to the to the youth rodeos and all that and sees, "Hey, what, what are the kids doing?"

You know, what's trending there?

You know, you can watch different parts of the country.

And we're a little behind some of those trends and sometimes you can see them coming in the Midwest.

That helps a little bit.

The real dilemma with that is we have to pre-order so far out, trends can change, you know, pretty rapidly, especially in the social media world we live in today.

You know, a guy wears the wrong color shirt and does something dumb, and now of a sudden, the black shirts with the blue stripe are taboo, you know, or whatever the case may be.

So it's a little bit of a gamble, you know?

Like we've already ordered for next fall, so we're a year out already ordering for products.

So it's hard sometimes to have that far ahead vision.

- And it's a pretty big selection.

I mean, we're not just talking about work jeans and some work shirts.

I mean, there's some skirts, there's some suits in there.

There's, you know, leather vests.

There's a lot of different stuff even on that clothing side, but of course it says western apparel.

But I think that's to attract the everyday person at this point, I mean- - Yeah, absolutely.

- Tell us about the bread and butter that really started it.

- So we didn't even carry clothing at first.

So in our original, it was a saddle shop, period.

Still my part of the passion.

All jokes aside, if I could cut the store in half, I'd just stay in in my half.

But, it works.

They compliment each other very well.

But we started a saddle shop, a repair shop and a saddle shop and that's why we have so many saddles.

That is my passion.

And, luckily, that industry, I hate to use the word it's easier to keep up with, but to me it makes more sense.

I mean, it's cognitive.

I'm cognitive of what goes on on that end of the street.

- Saddle styles aren't changing every three months.

- Not every three months.

They do change, but it's a slower progression.

And the beauty of saddles and leather tack and equipment is quality always sells.

It doesn't matter, you know?

I mean, we try to stay away from fads, actually, and stick with quality merchandise, good feel, form, and function.

- And dealing with that overhead though, 450 saddles.

You think about Topeka, I mean, we're in Kansas, there's a lot of horses and all, but, I mean, how do you keep that many in stock, you know, and how to keep your book straight?

- A good banker.

A good banker, that's how you keep that.

No, it's evolved, obviously.

We joke about this a lot when we get to reminiscing and thinking, my wife and I.

And I remember the day that we went to market and bought our very first new saddle to have on the floor.

And all the way home, it was back and forth like, "Oh my God, what if nobody likes it?

What if nobody buys it?

What are we gonna do?

We're gonna be broke.

We're gonna be broke if nobody buys this new saddle.

We put all of our extra capital into this brand new saddle."

And so while in a way it's joking, in another way, it really humbles you to think that that was a decent decision, that one, you know?

And then, apparently the next one was a decent decision, and so on so forth.

Not to say they've all been decent decisions.

Every now and then, you know, you just make the bad one.

- But you gotta keep confidence in yourself- - Absolutely.

Absolutely.

- And the path you're on.

- Yeah, and love what you do.

I don't know how you could stress that anymore.

You know, when you were talking about the name, and it used to be called R Bar B Saddle Tack and Trailer, so that was the original name.

We dropped the Saddle Tack and Trailer more so when we added the clothes, because we were afraid it would pigeonhole the clothing buyer into not knowing that we had that.

So literally, the name now is just R Bar B.

We're very big on branding.

We do a lot of private label.

We have a custom saddle shop partner that we build our own custom stuff in Campbell, Texas.

- Wow, okay.

- We do, we have a pad shop in Van Alstyne, Texas that we do custom pads, do a lot of private label.

I do a lot of designing, have stuff built.

I do saddle fitting.

So I love form and function of a saddle and a horse and the work together.

And I did three yesterday.

All three were kind of weird, you know, conformationally had some things going on.

And it is so cool.

We have a round pen in front of the store right there so they can try things, round and round.

But it's so cool to have somebody try a saddle, either a saddle, or in this situation it was a pad, and the lady was, was going around and around, you know, and trying it.

And she stopped and she was just overjoyed.

She was like, "I have never got him to take his right lead that good."

You know, because we had freed up his shoulders so that he could form and function properly.

And just little stuff like that.

There's such awesome wins, you know?

- You guys definitely have great customer service, but we'll talk about a little bit more of that in the next segment.

So it's time for a short break.

When we return, we'll lasso some tips for success.

We'll be right back.

You're watching "Working Capital."

(upbeat electronic music) Welcome back.

We were just talking about great customer service you have there, but of course, it really is also about the products you have.

How do you still market yourself?

How do you get your name out?

Do you still go to rodeos and events with a trailer and sell out the trailer?

I mean, how do you find new customers?

- We do some, actually.

We still do that some.

You know, and like you said, the great customer service.

We are fortunate to have a great set of employees.

We really are, good people and knowledgeable people.

And I think that's part of it because, also, their circle of people, it helps bring to our store because they know that not only is the person they're familiar with knowledgeable, but so are the other people they encounter while they're at the store.

So hats off.

Can't say enough about the employees.

- You'll go to some other stores that have some of the same things you do, but they hire employees, but they may not be able to answer all your questions, you know?

I was in there and we had some question about hats and some boots, and one of your employees, Mike, was just fantastic and helped us so much.

I mean, it was just a great experience, you know, I actually didn't expect going in there.

I thought we'd kinda look around and find what you need.

And, no, you guys really know what you have and can really steer someone to what they're looking for.

- Right, we're very fortunate to have that.

It's a pretty small, tight-knit group.

We don't have very many employees for the amount of product that we have to move through.

But I think it keeps it a little more personal.

And, you know, it's not to say we don't have our ups and downs and days, but, man, overall, I don't know how I could ask for ask any better help, you know?

- Well, we have a couple minutes left, but I'm really interested in how you design and, you know, you can create your own saddle there.

So just tell us a little bit about how that works.

- So it's pretty unorthodox at our place.

I have a three-ring binder and a bunch of pictures, pretty much.

And I like that and I don't like that and I do like this and I don't like that.

And we just write it up, you know, however.

I do a lot of pictures, God bless social media.

You were talking about advertising.

We do, you know, things like this that are awesome.

Thank you for the opportunity, by the way, but we do a lot of social media, bless my children for that.

So they can find us on Facebook and Instagram and on all that stuff.

And we try to post a lot.

We've got a lot of groups that come and use.

We have an arena there, we didn't even mention that, but we do have an arena there too.

We hold events as well.

- So how often do you hold events?

- At least twice a month or something.

We have a group called the Kansas Horse Mafia that we started, and it's a cowboy racing group.

So we had a race, last weekend was the EXCA state finals, and they qualify there and can go to Worlds in Texas.

- Now is that more of a, like across the open range type of race?

- No, it's actually a timed and judged obstacle course, basically.

So it's actually held in the arena, and all age groups.

Next year, we're pretty excited, I haven't even told anyone yet so anybody watching the show will be the first to know, we're gonna add lead lines for the little bitty kids' group.

So start them all the way from little bitties all the way up, I think our oldest competitor is 84 and still doing it.

- That's fantastic.

- And I don't mean like be-bopping around.

I'm talking full bore, at a dead run, making magic happen at 84 years old.

- Well, Russ, congratulations on all the good work at R Bar B, and we hope you have years to come.

It's time for another short break.

When we return, we uncover the details about covered wagons.

You're watching "Working Capital."

(upbeat electronic music) (upbeat electronic music) Welcome back to "Working Capital."

Covered wagons were once a regular sight in Kansas, and were consider the pioneer's best way to travel across the grasslands and rivers of the Midwest.

It's been over a century since their heyday, but now they're on the move again.

PlainsCraft Covered Wagons creates fully-sized and fully outfitted covered wagons for adventure travel destinations, campsite, and agritourism.

Today, we welcome the founder of PlainsCraft Wagon, Dennis Steinman, to the show.

Thanks for joining us, Dennis.

- It's good to be here.

Thanks for having me.

- So first off, covered wagons in the 21st century, how does this make good business sense?

- Well, that's a good question (Jay laughs) and I never thought I'd be a wagon salesman, but the glamping market, which we discovered when we first started this, is just growing.

It started mainly in Europe and around other parts of the world but then migrated to the U.S. And it's created, you know, and COVID really accelerated the outdoor spirit and people wanting to be outdoors.

So we participate in what we call the outdoor hospitality industry, and more specifically, the glamping.

- Which is short for glamorous camping, right, kind of?

- Yeah.

- You don't have to worry about your tent, you don't have to worry about pillows, really.

It's kind of show up and really enjoy the experience, right?

- Yeah, glamping stands for glamorous camping, and it's camping, but you don't leave the amenities that you love at home.

And, a lot of times, there are resort type activities and things that go along with it.

But it can range from, you know, something very primitive to there's some really fancy glamping resorts around the world and around the country.

- And featuring your wagons, at this point, which we'll get into where all they're sitting at, but so, your first wagon, how did you first start this business?

I mean, who was your first customer?

- Well, you mentioned them earlier.

Well, let me think back.

The very first wagon that we did, and Donna, my wife, who is really involved in this as well, the two of us, we built the first two wagons ourselves and then it's grown from there.

But there's a company in Utah called, it's just outside of Zion National Park and they came to us and they wanted, they were building this beautiful resort, and they wanted some wagons.

They'd seen our wagons somewhere right after we got started.

And so we worked with them, and they said, "We love your wagons, but we want this and we want that and we want something else."

So that's kind of how it all started.

- Wow, 'cause that is actually, I'm gonna butcher the name of it, I think it's White Bison Zion Ranch, or something like this, But that's where I actually saw these wagons and started kind of looking them up and realizing they were made right here in Kansas, and in Topeka.

- Yeah.

Zion White Bison- - White Bison.

- Is the name of it.

- Yeah, so from there, you now have other people helping you make components for the wagon.

So I mean, what took the decision to really, I guess ramp up production, what led to that?

- Well, I had an electronics manufacturing company for all of my life, and I sold that and Donna and I were looking for something else to do, another business to start.

We've had other businesses throughout our lives- - So you were an entrepreneur?

- Well, yeah, I've had several things, and so has Donna.

So we were actually looking to start a business.

And so when we discovered that the glamping market was growing, I don't know, I've always had a thing about these wagons anyway, but more than that, the grit of the people that used these wagons.

And, of course, we're right near the trails here that went West.

When I was a kid, we had horses and my dad built a covered wagon for me and the neighbors' boys and my sister, and we drove it to the county fair in Neosho County.

So it's always been something I've enjoyed.

- The experience is in your blood at this point.

- Yeah, yeah.

So, you know, it's kind of like, "We can do that.

We can build these wagons and they can make some great experiences for the guests, our customers."

- So how long does it take to, from start to finish, create a wagon, your average one?

I know you do a lot of customizations for the client, but how long from first nail?

- Well, we're running right about 1 1/2 wagons a week now.

- Wow.

- Yeah, so we have a crew and we're building these.

And we've got the systems and everything pretty well down.

We have suppliers, great suppliers, that they're all stable now.

And of course we've been through a lot of, through COVID, you know, it was very difficult.

But we've got some great suppliers, and that's all part of a good quality manufacturing process is to have great suppliers and great people.

- Now, during COVID, hard to find the supplies, but how were orders?

Were orders ramping up because of people wanting the fresh air and these resorts knowing they need to add infrastructure?

- Well, actually yes, because everyone was going outside, right?

And there was a short period where everything stopped, right at the beginning.

But then, the RV parks and these outdoor resorts, they began to get real busy.

Matter of fact, last year they had record years in their parks, and they're having great years now.

So we were lucky to get in on the beginning of that and get a good start.

- Great, well, it's time for another short break.

When we return, we'll find out how PlainsCraft has you covered for your next glamping trip.

We'll be right back.

(upbeat electronic music) Welcome back to "Working Capital."

We're here with Dennis Steinman.

And so these covered wagons, a lot of parts go into this.

Where are you finding all your pieces for this?

Now, I know you kind of created them from scratch to begin with, but you kind of a process now.

So tell me about where you're sourcing your different parts from and how custom they are for your builds.

- Well, of course, when we started and started the design process, I would sketch the parts and sketch things, and then I had a guy put it into CAD.

And then we slowly changed things and moved things around and got the first parts for the first wagon.

And then, of course, we send those off to someone to make.

The metal parts especially are pretty well custom made for us.

There's a lot of metal parts in there.

So we use a couple of companies, primarily a company here in Topeka, North Topeka Fabrication.

They've done a beautiful job for us.

And then the wood we get from Kansas City from a distributor.

A lot of the Kansas City, or a lot of the wood comes from either Kansas City or Wichita.

And our covers are made by a company here in Kansas.

We try to get everything as locally as we can.

And the wheels come from Ohio, a wonderful, small wheel shop that, they're just amazing.

These wheels are beautiful and they really make the wagons.

- So, I mean, the wheels are road ready?

the wagons that you make are really made to be kind of set in place, but the components you're using are real for the wagon?

I mean, you're not making just show pieces, it's not a set piece.

I mean, they're pretty hardily made.

- Oh yeah, they're the real deal.

And they're beautiful and there's bearings in the hubs.

They're big wooden hubs, like the old wagons.

They're made just like the old wagon wheel.

- So if you had them on site, let's say you would need to move them 20 yards, I mean, you could actually wheel them to a different spot that way as long as you're going slow, is is that how- - Yeah, that's true.

And, you know, our customers are hospitality providers, resorts, RV parks, whatever, and they rent these out for overnight accommodations.

They're money makers.

They do really well with them.

One of the things that we've sold a number of wagons to places that say, "Hey, I've got some property that's in the flood zone and I can't put any cabins or anything down there."

Well, they'll put the wagons in, and if something happens that they know it's gonna flood, hook onto them and move them out of there.

- Oh wow, that opens a lot of other possibilities- - Yeah, it does, yeah.

- For this resorts.

Okay, well, the one thing, when I look at it, the canvas top, I mean, how long can you expect a canvas top to last?

And is that something you guys come in and kind of tell them, you know, "In however many years, we'll come back out and refit this for whatever fee"?

How do you guys take care of the upkeep with these?

- Well, that's funny you ask, because the cover obviously is a big deal, and it's not only the looks of the wagon, but it's also, it has to have a long life.

And it also, since we put heat and air conditioning in these, it has to have some insulation.

So we've developed this cover, which is unique.

And it's insulated and it has a reflective characteristic for part of the insulation.

It's quite a system.

And it's basically a blanket that goes over the wagon first and then the outer cover.

Now, the outer cover, it's a very tough, waterproof.

It's not canvas, it's a boat cover material, welded seams and everything.

And so we tell people seven to 10 years.

- Wow.

- Then you can come back to us and we'll sell you another one.

And they're reasonable.

- No, that's pretty good.

I mean, I think the military canvas, if they set outside for that long, I mean, you're gonna have to be replacing and have some stuff in it.

So that's fantastic quality.

- Yeah, it may even be longer.

You know, we don't really know, but we've never had to replace one.

We started in 2000, we created the company in 2018, really got the first wagon built in '19, so we don't really know, but the fabric itself is guaranteed for seven years by the manufacturer of the fabric.

So I think we've got a good, solid cover.

- Okay, well, for everyone out there who may wanna purchase one or go even find one to stay in, what are some of the amenities that you guys offer?

I mean, how can you outfit these from basic to over the top?

- Well, we start with a basic wagon, and that would be a wagon with a one-layer top, a zipper door, very small, or very simple.

And then we work with our customers and say, "What do they want?

What's the best for your business?

What gonna get you the best return?"

And then we go up from there.

So we put air conditioning, we use a heat pump.

And it's all hidden in kind of a unique way.

So the heat pump, the bathroom.

We have a custom shower that's really big.

I mean, people walk into the bathroom and they say, "Wow, this thing is amazing."

And we have that made in Nebraska, the fiberglass shower.

And then we put furniture in that's made locally.

These guys do a beautiful job of doing this tough furniture that fits the decor, but it's gonna last a long time.

And then, Donna, who's an interior designer, she loves working with people to do whatever they want to do on the inside.

I mean, she furnishes, bedding rugs.

She's done pictures on the wall for people and stuff like that because our wagons actually have walls in the ends that are insulated.

The canvas goes over that on the outside, so you can't see those from the outside.

But when you walk in, it's just different.

And it's just a different effect.

And part of the fun of doing this whole thing is when people walk in and the look on their face when they see the inside.

First, they walk and see the outside and they go, "Holy crimey, this thing is amazing."

And then when they walk in, they're bigger than you think and they're just amazing.

So our customers, their customers love them and the kids love them, and so it's just a fun product.

- That's fantastic.

We're about out of time, but I do know for people that, first off, if they want to purchase these or think about these, you guys do work with people.

I mean, there's even a return on investment calculator on your website, but also, if they really wanna try these out, I think one of the closest places is maybe near Paola, Isinglass Estate Winery I think has a few.

So if they wanna check these out, go there, book it, and you won't regret it.

So thank you, Dennis.

We appreciate you being on today.

- You bet.

- That's a wrap for tonight's show.

I'd like to thank Russ Brown from R Bar B and Dennis Steinman from PlainsCraft Covered Wagons for being with us on "Working Capital."

If you know of an interesting business or management style, we want to hear from you.

So give us a call, drop us an email, or write us a letter.

We look forward to hearing from you.

See you next time, and thanks for watching.

It's all about business, and you've been watching "Working Capital."

(upbeat electronic music) (upbeat electronic music) - [Announcer] Additional funding is provided by the Friends of KTWU.