CHARLES A. FRUEAUFF FOUNDATION.

[MUSIC] >> Bonnie: HI, EVERYBODY!

I AM BONNIE ERBE, HOST OF PBS' "TO THE CONTRARY".

THIS WEEK, WE HAVE THE GREAT HONOR OF HAVING WITH US CONGRESSWOMAN DONNA EDWARDS, FORMER REPRESENTATIVE AND DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVE FROM MARYLAND.

A REGULAR ON "TO THE CONTRARY", AND A COLUMNIST FOR THE WASHINGTON POST.

SO GREAT TO SEE YOU, DONNA.

>> Congresswoman.

Edwards: GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.

THANK YOU, BONNIE.

>> Bonnie: THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS WE WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT, DONNA.

1ST OF ALL, LET'S START WITH ALL THE VIOLENCE AND PROTESTS AND THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD AND ALL THE HORRIBLE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN HAPPENING IN THE LAST WEEK OR TWO.

VIOLENCE: IS THIS THE WAY THE PRESIDENT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH VIOLENT PROTESTS?

>> Congresswoman.

Edwards: WELL, YOU KNOW, FIRST OF ALL, LET'S START WITH, YOU KNOW, DESCRIBING IT WAS THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD.

WE ALL WATCHED THAT NINE MINUTES.

AND I THINK THAT, UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, WE KNOW THAT HE IS NOT HAVE THE CAPACITY TO BE EMPATHETIC INTO MANY OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES OVER HIS TENURE.

BUT PARTICULARLY IN THIS MOMENT, WE NEED A PRESIDENT WHO IS ABLE TO OFFER A HEALING VOICE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND PARTICULARLY TO SPEAK TO AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE ABOUT THE RACISM THAT LEADS TO AN OFFICER PIERCING HIS KNEE INTO THE NECK OF GEORGE FLOYD.

AND THIS PRESIDENT IS COMPLETELY INCAPABLE OF DOING THAT.

AND IN FACT, HE'S USED HIS BULLY PULPIT TO BE MORE OF A BULLY AND TO INSIGHT I THINK ADDITIONAL VIOLENCE ANTIRACIST AND TO RAISE THE TEMPERATURE WHEN HE SHOULD BE A PRESIDENT WHO WAS LOWERING THE TEMPERATURE.

IT'S REALLY SHAMEFUL.

>> Bonnie: DO YOU THINK THESE, ALL THESE EPISODES -- I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, MICHAEL BROWN WAS LIKE THIS BEFORE TRUMP WAS PRESIDENT.

SO IT'S NOT AS IF POLICE BRUTALITY AGAINST AFRICAN-AMERICANS IS A NEW THING.

UNFORTUNATELY, WE WERE ALL HOPING WITH MICHAEL BROWN OR EVEN BEFORE THAT THAT IT WOULD HAVE ENDED, BUT HE KEEPS ON GOING.

BUT IN SOME WAY, IS PRESIDENT TRUMP RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD?

>> Congresswoman.

Edwards: WELL, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, KEEP IN MIND THAT JUST IN THE A COUPLE OF MONTHS BEFORE GEORGE FLOYD WAS MURDERED, BREONNA TAYLOR DOWN IN LOUISVILLE WAS MURDERED WHEN POLICE ON A NO KNOCK WARRANT BUST INTO HER -- BURST INTO HER APARTMENT AND SHE, YOU KNOW, WAS SHOT EIGHT TIMES IN HER NIGHTCLOTHES.

IT IS, YOU KNOW, POLICE VIOLENCE, BUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN GIVEN LICENSE TO ACT AS VISIBLE VIGILANTES, CHASING DOWN AHMAUD ARBERY IN THE BRUNSWICK COUNTY DOWN IN GEORGIA.

I MEAN, AND SO, THIS LITANY OF EITHER PEOPLE ACTING LIKE VIGILANTES AND COMMUNAL, DOING THINGS LIKE WEAPON ICING 9-1-1 TO MAKE CALLS ON BLACK PEOPLE AND, AND LAW ENFORCEMENT, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, ENGAGED IN THEIR TACTICS AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE, MEN AND WOMEN.

IT'S BEEN TOO MUCH OF A STRAIN.

AND I THINK THAT WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT GEORGE FLOYD'S MURDER AND THE WAY THAT WE COULD SEE THAT AND FEEL THAT IN HIM CALLING OUT TO HIS DEAD MOTHER TO TRY TO SAVE THEM, IT WAS JUST SO HEART-WRENCHING THAT I THINK IT HAS BROUGHT THIS , REALLY, TO THIS, YOU KNOW, MOMENT THAT REALLY CALLS FOR PRESIDENTIAL AND POLITICAL LEADERSHIP TO ADDRESS THESE QUESTIONS SO THAT WE CAN DEAL WITH THE DEEP SYSTEMIC RACISM THAT HAPPENS IN THIS COUNTRY.

AND THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, I HAVE TO SAY, HE FEELS THIS.

I MEAN, WE CAN THINK BACK TO HIS WORDS IN CHARLOTTESVILLE, BOTH, YOU KNOW, GOOD PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES.

I MEAN, WE CAN THINK BACK TO HIM, EVEN IN HIS LANGUAGE THE OTHER DAY AS HE THREATENED THE USE OF MILITARY AGAINST AMERICANS TELL, TALKING ABOUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT.

I MEAN, THESE ARE ALL SIGNALS THAT THE PRESIDENT USES.ND I BELIEVE THAT, YOU KNOW, DESIGNED TO INSIGHT, YOU KNOW, THESE CONFRONTATIONS AROUND RACE.

AND BELIEVE ME, I DO NOT THINK IT IS AN ACCIDENT ON HIS PART.

>> Bonnie: WELL, NOT ONLY THREATENED TO USE THE MILITARY AGAINST AMERICAN CITIZENS WHO ARE EXERCISING THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS TO VOICE THEIR OPINION ABOUT THINGS, AND OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE PROFESSIONAL LEADERS IN THOSE GROUPS ARE DOING WAY WORSE THAN THAT, WHO ARE CRIMINALS AND SHOULD BE ARRESTED BY THE POLICE.

BUT THE BULK OF THE CROWD, ESPECIALLY THAT WAS TEARGAS, WAS WALKING PEOPLE PEACEFULLY BY THE WHITE HOUSE WITH SCIENCE.

I MEAN, THAT IS ALL THEY WERE DOING.

AND THEN THE HELICOPTER THAT DESCENDED ON THE CROWD, I MEAN, THIS IS NOT THE POSSE COMITATUS ACT HAS NOT BEEN INVOKED SINCE I BELIEVE IT WAS THE EISENHOWER ADMINISTRATION.

IS THAT -- IS THERE ANYTHING CONGRESS CAN DO IN RESPONSE TO THIS OR SHOULD DO?

AND IS THAT THE CORRECT BEHAVIOR FOR A PRESIDENT OVERSEE A COUNTRY TORN APART BY RACE, REALLY, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, ALL CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUES AT THE MOMENT?

>> Congresswoman.

Edwards: WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK IF WE WERE WRITING ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS IN ANOTHER COUNTRY RUN BY AN AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENT, WE COULD OF BEEN WRITING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN MULTIPLE CITIES ACROSS THIS COUNTRY AND CERTAINLY WHAT HAPPENED WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THE WHITE HOUSE AT LAFAYETTE, LAFAYETTE PARK.

AND I HAVE DEMONSTRATED MANY TIMES.

I CAN'T EVEN COUNT THE NUMBER OF TIMES, AT LAFAYETTE PARK.

I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

THE CROWD THAT WAS THERE WAS A PEACEFUL CROWD.

AND THE WAY THAT FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT, BECAUSE IT WAS THIS ARRAY OF LAW ENFORCEMENT BECAUSE THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA IS NOT A STATE, AND SO THEY WERE ALL OF THESE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES THAT HAVE JURISDICTION.

AND THE WAY THAT THEY MARCHED UPON THOSE PEACEFUL DEMONSTRATORS I THINK IS SHAMEFUL IN A COUNTRY THAT CALLS ITSELF THE GREATEST DEMOCRACY IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.

WE WERE NOT DEMONSTRATING GREATNESS IN THAT MOMENT THERE, AND NOR HAS THE PRESIDENT BEEN DEMONSTRATING IT EITHER FROM HIS BUNKER IN THE WHITE HOUSE OR IN HIS, YOU KNOW, WHAT I DESCRIBED AS SORT OF A PIMP WALK ACROSS THE WHITE HOUSE OVER TO SAINT JOHNS CHURCH ROAD.

>> Bonnie: SO LET'S SWITCH NOW TO THE FUTURE OF AMERICAN POLITICS.

YOU HAVE BEEN AN ADVOCATE OF FORMER SENATOR, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN FOR A LONG TIME.

OVERALL, HOW DO YOU SEE HIS RECORD ON RACE?

>> Congresswoman.

Edwards: I FEEL REALLY STRONGLY THAT NOW THAT WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, ARE LIKELY NOMINEE WITH THESE LAST CLOSING DAYS OF PRIMARY ELECTIONS THAT IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO RALLY BEHIND HIM AS OUR NOMINEE AND TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT HE IS ABLE TO REPLACE WHO I BELIEVE IS AN IMPOSTER, OPPOSER IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND DONALD TRUMP.

AND I WOULD SAY THAT MY POLITICAL LEANINGS, HOWEVER, HAVE BEEN SORT OF MORE IN LINE WITH THE ELIZABETH WARRENS OF THE PRIMARY SEASON.

OF COURSE, ALL OF THE WOMEN WHO RAN, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S TIME TO HAVE A WOMAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE, BUT I'M EXCITED.

I WAS EXCITED ABOUT THE ARRAY IN THE FIELD THAT WE HAD.

AND NOW I'M EXCITED THAT WE WILL HAVE A NOMINEE WHO I BELIEVE WILL, YOU KNOW, BRING DIGNITY INTO THE WHITE HOUSE AND, YOU KNOW, BASED ON SOME THINGS THAT HE SAID, EVEN IN THE WAKE OF THIS TRAGEDY WITH GEORGE FLOYD, THAT HE WILL, YOU KNOW, TAKE ON THESE ISSUES OF RACIAL INJUSTICE AND POLICE VIOLENCE AND GIVE THAT REAL VOICE AND GIVE OUR ANGER A VOICE IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

>> Bonnie: GIVE IT A VOICE AND DO WHAT, TO PLACATE?

WHAT CAN THE PRESIDENT DO, OR ANY PRESIDENT CAN DO, TO STOP POLICE VIOLENCE AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE?

THIS IS GENERALLY SPEAKING.

THE CITY AND STATE LAW MATTER, NOT A FEDERAL LAW MATTER.

>> Congresswoman.

Edwards: LET'S BE CLEAR.

THESE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES, STATE AGENCIES, LOCAL AGENCIES, CITIES RECEIVE AN AWFUL LOT OF FEDERAL SUPPORT, AND I THINK IT IS TIME FOR THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES TO BEGIN TO CONDITION THAT SUPPORT ON REAL CHANGE, A FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE IN POLICY IN THESE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES, AND TRAINING, IN CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARDS AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS.

AND I THINK THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ACTUALLY HAS A LOT OF LEVERS THAT IT CAN USE IN THAT RESPECT MEAN, THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EVERY YEAR GIVES OUT, YOU KNOW, BILLIONS IN GRANTS TO LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES.

THAT NEEDS TO BE CONDITIONED ON THEM AND ROOTING OUT THE CULTURE THAT LEADS TO THE TRAGEDY THAT WE SAW ON THE STREETS OF MINNEAPOLIS AND THAT WE'VE SEEN ALL ACROSS THIS COUNTRY.

AND SOME OF THEM NOT EVEN RESULTING IN DEATH, BUT HARASSMENT, DETENTION, AND BRUTALITY AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE.

>> Bonnie: TO THINK THIS NATION CAN GET THERE?

I MEAN, WHEN I SEE THESE THINGS HAPPEN AND I'VE READ SO MUCH HISTORY OF THE CIVIL WAR AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT CERTAIN PEOPLE STILL THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW, PRE--WAR TIMES, THAT THEY ARE ALLOWED TO LITERALLY GET AWAY WITH MURDER AS LONG AS THEY MURDER A BLACK PERSON, IT JUST IS AMAZING TO SOMEBODY WHO IS STANDING BACK AND WATCHING THESE THINGS EVOLVE THAT THIS IS STILL HAPPENING IN OUR COUNTRY IN THIS TIME.

SO WHAT DO YOU THINK?

WHAT DO YOU THINK THE REALITY IS ABOUT STOPPING IT OR THE REAL PROSPECTS, I SHOULD SAY, OF STOPPING IT AND GETTING BEYOND RACIAL PROBLEMS?

IS IT EVER GOING TO HAPPEN?

>> Congresswoman.

Edwards: WELL, IT'S A LONG ROAD, BUT I WILL SAY ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S ACTUALLY BEEN DEEPLY GRATIFYING IN WATCHING THE NEWS COVERAGE OF CROWDS, YOU KNOW, ALL ACROSS THIS COUNTRY HAS BEEN HOME MULTIRACIAL THESE CROWDS ARE, HOW MULTIGENERATIONAL THESE CROWDS ARE, AND THAT TELLS ME THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE MANY AMERICANS -- BLACK, WHITE, LATINO, ASIAN -- ACROSS THE BOARD WHO BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD BE BEHAVING DIFFERENTLY AND WE SHOULD HAVE DIFFERENT EXPECTATIONS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT.

AND SO, THAT IS ACTUALLY GRATIFYING, BECAUSE I DO BELIEVE THAT IT IS A SMALL CADRE OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHO STILL HARBOR THESE RACIST BELIEFS THAT, YOU KNOW, HAVE COME FROM, YOU KNOW, 400 YEARS OF ENSLAVEMENT TO JIM CROW, THROUGH THE MODERN CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.

AND SOMEHOW THEY WANTED THAT ALL BACK.

AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE A MAJORITY, AND WE HAVE TO STAND UP AND FIGHT AGAINST THEM.

AND, YOU KNOW, I AM HOPEFUL, BONNIE, IN THAT RESPECT.UT I DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE EASY.

AND I ALSO THINK IT MEANS THAT WE CANNOT BE COMPLACENT ANYMORE AND THAT WAY PEOPLE HAVE TO START TALKING TO WHITE PEOPLE ABOUT THEIR RACISM AND CALLING OUT.

WHEN YOU HEAR SOMEBODY SAYING SOMETHING THAT'S UNTOWARD BECAUSE THEY ARE IN A SAFE, COMFORTABLE GROUP, DON'T LET THAT GO UNCHALLENGED, BECAUSE THOSE ARE WAYS THAT WE REALLY CAN FIGHT BACK AGAINST DEEPLY EMBEDDED CULTURE THAT HAS BEEN WITH US SINCE AFRICANS FIRST CAME TO THIS CONTINENT AND WERE ENSLAVED.

>> Bonnie: WHAT ABOUT REPARATIONS?

BOB JOHNSON, PROMINENT SPORTS TEAM OWNER IN NORTH CAROLINA, FORMERLY, AND WASHINGTON DC AND ONE OF THE COFOUNDERS OF BET CALL FOR REPARATIONS RECENTLY.

HE CERTAINLY NOT THE FIRST PERSON TO DO SO.

DO YOU THINK THAT IS EVER GOING TO MAKE ITS WAY THROUGH CONGRESS?

>> Congresswoman.

Edwards: I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT.UT WHAT I DO THINK IS THAT IDEAS LIKE THAT, ABOUT HOW TO RESTORE, YOU KNOW, DIGNITY AND ECONOMY TO BLACK PEOPLE IS A CONVERSATION THAT'S WORTH HAVING IN THE CONGRESS AND IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND THAT IT COULD BE THAT IT TAKES MANY DIFFERENT FORMS.

BUT AS LONG AS WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, A GROUP OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY WHO ACROSS THE BOARD, YOU KNOW, HAVE HIGHER RATES OF POVERTY AND CHRONIC ILLNESS AND ALL OF THE THINGS THAT PLAGUED THESE COMMUNITIES, WE ARE NOT GOING TO LIFT UP ALL-AMERICANS.

AND I THINK IT'S TIME FOR US TO FACE THAT.

AND I THINK IT'S TIME FOR THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION.

AND IF THE CONVERSATION IS AROUND REPARATIONS, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT'S GOING TO GO BUT I THINK IT'S A GOOD CONVERSATION TO HAVE.

>> Bonnie: WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE BIGGEST ISSUE SPLITTING DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS AND, REALLY, SPLITTING GRASSROOT VOTERS THAT, YOU KNOW, COMES FROM THE RACIAL AREA THAT -- WHAT IS THE BIGGEST ISSUE THAT DIVIDES US, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE WHITE PEOPLE WHO ARE FOR CIVIL RIGHTS AND JUSTICE, BUT DON'T THINK THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE TO PAY REPARATIONS, THEIR TAXES SHOULD GO, FOR EXAMPLE, TO REPARATIONS BECAUSE THEIR FAMILIES WERE NOT EVEN IN THIS COUNTRY WHEN SLAVERY WAS AN INSTITUTION, OR THERE ARE IMMIGRATION.

TRUMP HAS STIRRED UP ENOUGH, YOU KNOW, TALKING ABOUT THE BORDER AND ALL HIS FOCUS ON PRETTY MUCH WITHOUT SAYING THE WORD HISPANICS AND INCITING HATE AGAINST PEOPLE.

IS THAT THE BIGGEST ISSUE DIVIDING PEOPLE ALONG RACIAL LINES?

WHAT IS IT?

WHAT DO YOU THINK IT IS?IS IT EDUCATION, HEALTHCARE FOR EVERYBODY?

>> Congresswoman.

Edwards: BONNIE, THIS IS LIKE A REALLY BIG QUESTION AND I DON'T KNOW, BUT I KNOW THAT IT'S WORTH THE CONVERSATION.

I KNOW THAT IT IS WORTH THE CHALLENGE FOR POLICYMAKERS TO EXAMINE THESE QUESTIONS DEEPLY AND , FRANKLY, THINK ABOUT IT, THE POSITION AND STATUS OF OUR NATIVE COMMUNITIES.

RIGHT NOW, ON NAVAJO TERRITORY, THEY ARE SUFFERING SOME OF THE HIGHEST RATES OF COVID INFECTION AND DEATH.

AND THAT IS FOLLOWING IN HUGE PART TO A HEALTHCARE SYSTEM THAT HASN'T BEEN INVESTED IN , EDUCATION THAT HAS NOT BEEN INVESTED IN, AND COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN LEFT BEHIND.

YOU LOOK AT IMMIGRANT, NEW IMMIGRANT COMMUNITIES, ESPECIALLY HISPANIC IMMIGRANTS, AND YOU SEE THE CHALLENGES THAT ARE BEING FACED BY THOSE COMMUNITIES LEFT COMPLETELY OUT OF OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM, UNABLE TO ATTAIN CITIZENSHIP BECAUSE OF OUR POLICIES.

AND THEN OF COURSE, AFRICAN-AMERICANS, YOU KNOW, WE COULD HAVE A PROGRAM THAT LASTS FOR DAYS AND DAYS AND DAYS TALKING ABOUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF DISPARITIES IN HEALTHCARE AND INCOME IN EDUCATION.

AND SO, WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO WALK AND CHEW GUM AT THE SAME TIME.

AND IT MEANS WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO TACKLE A LOT OF THESE POLICY QUESTIONS TOGETHER, AND SOME OF THE MORE SPECIFIC TO OTHER COMMUNITIES.

BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS IF YOU LOOK AT OUR CENSUS, THIS COUNTRY IS GROWING IN TERMS OF ITS BLACK AND BROWN POPULATION.

AND WE NEED TO EMBRACE THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS POSITIVE INSTEAD OF, YOU KNOW, HAVING THIS, YOU KNOW, SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE CHALLENGE US TO BELIEVE THAT WE CANNOT REALLY EXIST IN A MULTIRACIAL COUNTRY WHERE EVERYBODY HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO SUCCEED.

>> Bonnie: LET'S GET BACK TO JOE BIDEN'S CANDIDACY FOR A 2ND.

YOU AS A DEMOCRAT, OBVIOUSLY, WILL SUPPORT HIM.

BUT YOU CAN'T ENDORSE HIM BECAUSE YOU ARE NOW A JOURNALIST AND AN OPINION WRITER.

BUT WHAT ABOUT HIM SCARES YOU THE MOST AS A CANDIDATE?

>> Congresswoman.

Edwards: WELL, I MEAN, LOOK, I THINK THAT HIS CHOICE OF THE NEXT, OF HIS VICE PRESIDENT I THINK IS AN IMPORTANT ONE, DIFFERENT IN SOME WAYS FROM CHOICES THAT OTHER PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEES HAVE HAD TO MAKE.

SOMEBODY WHO CAN BE PRESIDENT, AS I SAID YESTERDAY, I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE REALLY IMPORTANT CHOICE ALSO THINK THAT IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE PUSH THE FORMER VICE PRESIDENT IN TERMS OF WHOM HE SURROUNDS HIMSELF WITH IMPORTANT CABINET AND SOME CABINET POSITIONS, THAT WE WANT HIM, WE WANT TO CHALLENGE THE FORMER VICE PRESIDENT TO BE MORE BOLD IN THOSE SOLUTIONS THAT HE EMBRACES.

AND I THINK THAT HE IS UP FOR THE CHALLENGE.

I HAVE KNOWN HIM FOR I THINK 30 YEARS.

I CAN'T EVEN BELIEVE IT.

KNEW HIM AS A SENATOR WORKING ON THE VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN ACT AND I KNEW HIM AS SOMEBODY WHO CAN GROW INTO HIS LEADERSHIP.

I KNEW HIM WHEN I WAS A MEMBER OF CONGRESS WORKING WITH HIM AS VICE PRESIDENT, AND I HAVE A DEEP REGARD AND RESPECT FOR HIM.

AND I BELIEVE THAT HE IS UP TO THE CHALLENGE OF BEING CHALLENGED AND THAT, UNLIKE THE CURRENT OCCUPANT OF THE WHITE HOUSE, HE WILL NOT VIEW THAT WITH ON BRIDGE -- UMBRAGE BUT WITH HUMILITY.

AND SO, I HAVE A LOT OF CONFIDENCE.

BUT I THINK ANYONE WHO GOES INTO THE WHITE HOUSE DESERVES TO BE CHALLENGED BY THOSE OF US WHO ARE OUTSIDE.

IT'S NOT FAIR FOR ANY PRESIDENT, WHETHER IT'S JOE BIDEN OR ANYBODY ELSE, TO GET A FREE RIDE, BECAUSE SOMETIMES FREE RIDES LEAD TO A LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY.

AND I WANT JOE BIDEN TO STRIVE TO HIS HIGHEST CAPACITY, AND I KNOW THAT HE CAN DO THAT WITH ACCOUNTABILITY IF WE CHALLENGE HIM.

>> Bonnie: AND WHAT ABOUT HIS VICE PRESIDENTIAL PICK?

WILL HE GET THE BLACK AND BROWN VOTE IF HE DOESN'T CHOOSE -- HE'S ALREADY SAID HE'S GOING TO CHOOSE A WOMAN, IF HE DOESN'T CHOOSE A WOMAN OF COLOR?

>> Congresswoman.

Edwards: I THINK THAT OF COURSE HE IS GOING TO GET THE OVERWHELMING SHARE OF THE VOTE FROM BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE COME NOVEMBER, BECAUSE WE KNOW WHAT IS AT STAKE.

WHEN DONALD TRUMP SAID, WHAT YOU HAVE TO LOSE?

WE KNOW THAT WHAT WE HAD TO LOSE WAS OUR LIVES.

AND SO, WE ARE NOT GOING TO, WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE FULL BY THAT WERE TRICKED INTO SUBMISSION AND STAYING AT HOME AND NOT VOTING.

AND SO, I'M EXCITED ABOUT THAT.

AND I HAVE SAID THAT I'M ACTUALLY FAIRLY AGNOSTIC ABOUT THE CHOICE THAT THE FORMER VICE PRESIDENT MAKES FOR VICE PRESIDENT.

AND PART OF THE REASON IS BECAUSE I THINK THAT CHOOSING A VICE PRESIDENT IS ALSO A VERY PERSONAL CHOICE WHERE YOU WANT TO CHOOSE SOMEBODY THAT YOU KNOW YOU CAN WORK WITH WHERE YOU WILL BE A TEAM, WHERE YOU CAN TRUST THEM EMINENTLY TO DEAL WITH ISSUES, BOTH INTERNATIONAL AND DOMESTIC.

AND I THINK THAT IT'S IMPORTANT FOR HIM TO CHOOSE SOMEBODY WHO COMPLEMENTS HIM, WHO DOESN'T -- AND THAT IS WITH THE E -- WHO DOESN'T GO ALONG WITH EVERYTHING BUT CHALLENGES HIM PRIVATELY AND ADVISES HIM.

SOMEBODY, LIKE HE WAS A VICE PRESIDENT, WHO IS MORE OF A PEER SO YOU CAN TRUST THEIR JUDGMENT.

AND I'M GOING TO TRUST THE JUDGMENT OF JOE BIDEN TO MAKE THE CHOICE THAT IS GOING TO MAKE HIS FOUR YEARS IN THE WHITE HOUSE A SUCCESS.

>> Bonnie: WHY DO YOU THINK PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE GOING TO TURN OUT FOR HIM OVERWHELMINGLY?

IT'S ALWAYS A PROBLEM FOR DEMOCRATS TO GET PEOPLE OF COLOR TO THE POLLS.

HAVE NEVER QUITE UNDERSTOOD THAT, BUT IT EXISTS.

REPUBLICANS GO OUT AND VOTE IN DROVES REGARDLESS.

THEY DON'T NEED, YOU KNOW, AS MUCH OF THE GEO TV GET OUT THE VOTE EFFORT AS THE DEMOCRATS HAVE TO PUT INTO GETTING THEIR VOTERS TO THE POLLS.

IS IT COVID-19?

IS IT LACK OF HEALTH INSURANCE?

IS IT RACIAL DISPARITIES IN THE COUNTRY?

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO GET VOTERS OF COLOR OUT THIS TIME?

>> Congresswoman.

Edwards: WELL, I THINK THAT WE'VE ALREADY SEEN THROUGH THE PRIMARY SEASON, AND WE CERTAINLY SAW IN 2018, THE VOTERS OF COLOR WERE HIGHLY MOTIVATED.

I THINK THAT DEMOCRATS WOULD NOT HAVE REGAINED THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES HAD DEMOCRATS NOT BEEN VERY MOTIVATED, AND PARTICULARLY BLACK AND BROWN DEMOCRATS.

IN SOME OF THESE DISTRICTS THAT ONLY HAD, YOU KNOW, A 10 PERCENT OR SO AND LESS THAN THAT OF BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE IN THEIR DISTRICTS, IT WAS THE SUPER TURNOUT OF THOSE VOTERS THAT ACTUALLY MADE THE DIFFERENCE IN THOSE ELECTIONS.

AND SO, I AM CONFIDENT.

AND YOU LOOK AT JOE BIDEN'S PERFORMANCE DURING THE PRIMARY SEASON.

BLACK AND BROWN VOTERS SHOWED UP FOR HIM AND THEY SHOWED UP FOR HIM IN A BIG WAY.

OTHERWISE, HE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SECURE THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINATION.

AND SO, AND I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF US, A LOT OF MY FORMER COLLEAGUES AND OTHERS WHO ARE GOING TO BE OUT THERE, YOU KNOW, ON THE STUMP FOR JOE BIDEN.

AND NOT JUST TURNING OUT BLACK AND BROWN VOTERS, BUT TURNING OUT YOUNG PEOPLE.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THE FACT THAT JOE BIDEN IS EMBRACING MESSAGES AROUND CLIMATE CHANGE AND THE IMPORTANCE OF DEALING WITH THAT IS GOING TO BE AN IMPORTANT MOTIVATOR FOR YOUNG PEOPLE TO COME OUT TO VOTE.

AND SO, I'M EXCITED ABOUT WHAT THE PROSPECTS ARE.

I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE EASY.

I THINK IN THE, YOU KNOW, WITH THE ERO OF COVID-19, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR US TO REALLY FOCUS ON MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND VOTE BY MAIL IN THEIR STATES AND THAT THEY ARE WILLING TO DO IT.

MOST POLLS ARE SHOWING THAT PEOPLE ARE HIGHLY MOTIVATED TO VOTE BY MAIL.

AND, YOU KNOW, BONNIE, I JUST READ A VERY INTERESTING STUDY THAT WAS DONE ABOUT VOTE BY MAIL SHOWING THAT BLACK AMERICANS ARE MORE PREDISPOSED THAN THEIR WHITE COUNTERPARTS TO VOTE BY MAIL.

AND SO, I'M CONFIDENT THAT THIS CAN HAPPEN.

>> Bonnie: GETTING BACK TO BIDEN FOR A SECOND AND HIS VP CHOICE, WHY DON'T YOU THINK IT SHOULD BE A WOMAN OF COLOR?

YOU'RE SAYING -- >> Congresswoman.

Edwards: BONNIE, I DID NOT SAY THAT.

>> Bonnie: WILL, YOU DID.

ALL RIGHT.

YOU DIDN'T SAY IT SHOULD.

YOU DIDN'T SAY IT SHOULD BE AND YOU TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT ELIZABETH WARREN.

YOU KNOW, IF IT WERE TO BE A WOMAN OF COLOR, WOULD YOU HAVE A FAVORITE?

>> Congresswoman.

Edwards: I THINK IT WOULD BE FABULOUS IF JOE BIDEN CHOOSES A WOMAN OF COLOR, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY.

AND I WILL BE EXCITED TO DO WHAT I CAN TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE A PRESIDENT IN THE WHITE HOUSE WHO HAS RESPECT FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND WANTS ALL OF US TO BE INCLUDED IN ITS FUTURE.

>> Bonnie: THANK YOU SO MUCH, DONNA EDWARDS, FORMER REPRESENTATIVE, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM MARYLAND, CURRENTLY OP-ED WRITER FOR THE WASHINGTON POST AND REGULAR ON NBC, MSNBC.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE SEEING YOU.

AND THAT'S IT FOR THIS EDITION.

PLEASE JOIN US NEXT WEEK AND IN BETWEEN.

PLEASE FOLLOW US ON SOCIAL MEDIA, FACEBOOK, INSTAGRAM, ETC., AND PLEASE JOIN, LOOK AT, RATHER, OUR PBS WEBSITE AT PBS.org/TOTHECONTRARY.

WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK "TO THE CONTRARY", PLEASE JOIN US NEXT WEEK!FOUNDATION, AND THE CHARLES A. FRUEAUFF FOUNDATION FOR A TRANSCRIPT OR SEE AN ONLINE EPISODE OF "TO THE CONTRARY," PLEASE VISIT OUR PBS WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.