GENETIC FOUNDATION, THE COLCOM FOUNDATION, AND THE CHARLES A. FRUEAUFF FOUNDATION.

>> WE HAVE A SYSTEM THAT'S BROKEN AND IT HAS NOT BEEN FIXED NOT BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO, BUT BECAUSE OF THE POLITICAL LACK OF COURAGE IN CONGRESS.

CONGRESS.

>> Bonnie: HELLO AND WELCOME TO "TO THE CONTRARY".

I'M BONNIE ERB.

IT'S A DISCUSSION OF USING SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

THIS WEEK I'M JOINED BY WOMAN THOUGHT LEADER REPRESENTATIVE PRAMILA JAYAPAL FROM WASHINGTON STATE.

REPRESENTATIVE, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU.

IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

>> NOW, YOU ARE RELATIVELY SENIOR MEMBER OF THE HOUSE, BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN HERE MORE THAN TWO YEARS.

BUT THINGS REALLY CHANGED WHEN YOU ARE ELECTED IN 2016.

2018, A FLOODED OF NEW WOMEN.

>> YES.

>> ENTERED THE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS AND THE HOUSE.

HOW HAS THAT CHANGED FOR YOU?

>> IT'S BEEN AMAZING.

I HAVE TO SAY IT'S LIKE A BREATH OF FRESH AIR.

WHEN I CAME IN, I WAS THE FIRST S. ASIAN AMERICAN EVER ELECTED TO THE U.S. HOUSE, AND ONE OF VERY, VERY FEW WOMEN OF COLOR AT THE TIME AND ONE OF VERY FEW WOMEN.

WE DO NOT HAVE A BIG FLOOD IN 2016.

OF COURSE WE WERE DEALING WITH THE ELECTION OF DONALD TRUMP AND BEING IN THE MINORITY.

NOW WE HAVE THIS INCREDIBLE, YOU KNOW, VAST ARRAY OF TALENT, REALLY, THAT'S COME IN, INCREDIBLE DIVERSITY.

MOST DIVERSE, MOST PROGRESSIVE HOUSE WE HAVE EVER SEEN.

THE FIRST TWO NATIVE AMERICAN WOMEN, THE FIRST TWO MUSLIM AMERICAN WOMEN, A WHOLE HOST OF LATIN X AND AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN.

IT'S WONDERFUL.

>> Bonnie: OBVIOUSLY, THE GOALS OF ALL OF THOSE WOMEN TOGETHER ARE TO PUSH THE LEGISLATION THAT IS OF MORE OF A PROGRESSIVE BENT HOW SUCCESSFUL YOU'VE BEEN IN THAT REGARD?

>> Rep. Jayapal: I THINK WE'VE BEEN DOING INCREDIBLY WELL.

OF COURSE NOT ALL THE WOMEN THAT ARE ELECTED ARE MEMBERS OF THE PROGRESSIVE CAUCUS, BUT WE HAVE INCREASED THE PROGRESSIVE CAUCUS' SIZE.

WERE ALMOST 100 MEMBERS STRONG, ABOUT 40 PERCENT OF THE CAUCUS.

ON THE ELECTED COCHAIR OF THE PROGRESSIVE CAUCUS.

I THINK THAT THE MOVEMENT ACROSS THE COUNTRY HAS BEEN AMAZING.

IT'S NOT JUST WHAT HAPPENED HERE IN CONGRESS, BUT THE STRENGTH OF THE PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT OF YOUNG PEOPLE , FOLKS OF COLOR, WOMEN SPEAKING UP AND SAYING, YOU KNOW, WE NEED REFORM ON ESSENTIAL THINGS.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE MAJOR PIECES OF LEGISLATION THAT THE HOUSE HAS PASSED SINCE WE'VE TAKEN OVER, OVER 50 MAJOR PIECES OF LEGISLATION AND MANY OF THEM ARE PROGRESSIVE PRIORITIES, GETTING MONEY OUT OF POLITICS THAT WAS HR ONE, THE FIRST BILL WE PASSED.

THE $50 MINIMUM WAGE WHICH WE WERE ON THE FOREFRONT OF IN SEATTLE, ALSO WE PASSED.UN REFORM, THREE PIECES OF GUN REFORM LEGISLATION, VERY, VERY IMPORTANT TO ALL OF US ACROSS:00 -- CAUCUS.

THESE THINGS WE USED TO THINK OF AS PROGRESSIVE PRIORITIES NOW ARE REALLY MAINSTREAM DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS PRIORITIES, ISSUES LIKE MEDICARE FOR ALL.

WE HAVE OVER HALF OF THE CAUCUS SUPPORTING MY MEDICARE FOR ALL BILL.

OF COURSE ON IMMIGRATION, THE MOST PROGRESSIVE DREAM ACT THAT WE HAVE EVER PASSED IN THE HISTORY OF THE HOUSE.

>> Bonnie: BUT HOW FRUSTRATING IS IT TO YOU THAT WITH A REPUBLICAN SENATE AND WITH PROBABLY ONE OF THE, IF NOT THE MOST, THE MOST CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTS IN THE WHITE HOUSE THAT THESE ARE NOT BECOME LAW?

>> Rep. Jayapal: IT'S A DERELICTION OF DUTY ON THE SENATE'S PART.

MITCH McCONNELL IS JUST SITTING THERE WITH ALL THESE PIECES OF LEGISLATION, DOING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

WE CALL THE SENATE AND GRAVEYARD WERE ALL GOOD IDEAS GO TO DIE AND THAT'S WRONG BECAUSE IT'S NOT WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT.

LOOK AT BACKGROUND CHECKS AS AN EXAMPLE.

90 PERCENT OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC WANTS TO SEE BACKGROUND CHECKS PAST.

MONEY AND POLITICS, THIS IS THE TOP ISSUE.

>> REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC DISTRICTS.

THE DREAM ACT, THIS USED TO BE A BIPARTISAN ISSUE THAT SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET ATTENTION IN THE SENATE.

SO IT IS FRUSTRATING, BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT THERE IS A VERY CLEAR DISTINCTION BETWEEN DEMOCRATS AND OUR PROPOSITION AGENDA AND REPUBLICANS AND THEY ARE PURELY OPPOSITION AGENDA.

>> Bonnie: LET'S TALK ABOUT IMMIGRATION FOR A COUPLE MINUTES, BECAUSE YOU HAVE SPONSORED SEVERAL BILLS ON THE ISSUE.

OF COURSE, IT'S REALLY THE ISSUE THAT CATALYZED PRESIDENT TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN AND GOT HIM INTO THE WHITE HOUSE.

WHAT IS IT LIKE TO BE PRO-IMMIGRANT AND PRO-IMMIGRATION THESE DAYS?

I MEAN, YOU ARE NOT HERE FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS IN OFFICE, BUT FROM WHAT MEMBERS OF CONGRESS TELL YOU FEEL SIMILARLY.

>> Rep. Jayapal: WELL, I'M HERE IS ONE OF ONLY 14 MEMBERS OF THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS, BOTH HOUSE AND SENATE.

THAT'S A NATURALIZED CITIZEN MYSELF.

I WAS BORN IN INDIA, I WAS NATURALIZED AS A U.S. CITIZEN IN 2000 .

AND IT'S AN HONOR TO BE ABLE TO SERVE HERE NOW.

IN SOME WAYS I FEEL LIKE IT'S MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVER THAT I AM HERE AND THAT THIS VOICE IS SO CLEARLY BEING ARTICULATED, EXACTLY BECAUSE TRUMP HAS DECIDED TO VILIFY AND OTHERWISE AND TERRORIZE IMMIGRANT COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY SIMPLY FOR HIS OWN POLITICAL GAIN.

AND I DON'T THINK -- >> Bonnie: YOU DON'T THINK HE BELIEVES IN WHAT HE IS DOING PERSONALLY?

>> Rep. Jayapal: MAYBE NOW, BUT I DON'T THINK HE CAME IN BELIEVING THAT.

HE HAS FOLLOWED THE DIRECTION OF STEPHEN MILLER AND ANTI-IMMIGRANT FORCES WITHIN THE WHITE HOUSE THAT HE BROUGHT IN.

WHITE SUPREMACISTS FORCES, THESE ARE ALL INTERRELATED.

NOW THE GOAL IS NOT JUST ABOUT THE BORDER, NOT JUST ABOUT UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS, IT IS LITERALLY TO REDUCE OR ELIMINATE THE FLOW OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT IS DONE WITH REFUGEE ADMISSIONS, ASYLUM SEEKERS, IF YOU LOOK AT EVEN WHAT HE SAID ABOUT LEGAL IMMIGRANTS WITH THE PUBLIC CHARGE RULE, ALL THE NEW REGULATIONS, THE MUSLIM BAN, I MEAN, THESE ARE ALL ATTEMPTS TO RESTRICT EVEN LEGAL IMMIGRATION TO THIS COUNTRY.

AND IT IS A TRAVESTY.

SO WHAT DOES IT FEEL LIKE TO BE HERE NOW?

IT FEELS IMPORTANT.

IT FEELS IMPORTANT TO GET THE VOICES OF SO MANY PEOPLE ACROSS THIS COUNTRY THAT EPITOMIZED THE VALUE OF IMMIGRANTS TO THE UNITED STATES.

AND IT ALSO FEELS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT FOR US TO BE ABLE TO SHOW WHAT OUR VISION IS OF IMMIGRATION TO THIS COUNTRY.

>> Bonnie: YOUR VISION, TELL ME A BIT ABOUT THAT.

IS IMMIGRATION A NET CONTRIBUTOR TO THE ECONOMY?

DOES IT CREATE MORE JOBS?

OR THE OTHER WAY AROUND?

>> Rep. Jayapal: ABSOLUTELY.

I SHOULD SAY I SPENT 15 YEARS AS AN IMMIGRANT RIGHTS ACTIVIST ACROSS MY STATE AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

AND WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT THIS COUNTRY IS STRONGER FOR IMMIGRATION.

IN SPITE OF EVERYTHING THAT DONALD TRUMP IS DONE, THE PUBLIC STILL BELIEVES THAT WE NEED MORE IMMIGRATION, NOT LESS.

SO HE HAS NOT BEEN EFFECTIVE IN CHANGING THE VIEWS OF PEOPLE WHO IN MANY CASES ARE VERY CONNECTED TO THEIR OWN IMMIGRANT HISTORIES.

THIS COUNTRY HAS ALWAYS HAD A VERY BACK-AND-FORTH RELATIONSHIP WITH IMMIGRATION.

WE HAVE HAD A LOT OF EXCLUSIONARY POLICIES SINCE OUR FOUNDING.

WE HAVE HAD A LOT OF AMNESTIES.

YOU KNOW, WE SAY THAT SOMETIMES -- IS SOMETIMES USED BY COLLEAGUES IN A BAD WAY BY REPUBLICANS.

THAT'S THE HISTORY THROUGHOUT THE HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY.

WE HAVE HAD AMNESTIES OF PEOPLE LIKING FROM OTHER WESTERN EUROPEAN COUNTRIES.

SO THE REALITY IS WE'VE GOT A SYSTEM THAT IS BROKEN AND IT HAS NOT BEEN FIXED NOT BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO, BUT BECAUSE OF THE POLITICAL LACK OF COURAGE IN CONGRESS.

FOR ME, IT'S REALLY ABOUT WHO WE ARE AS A COUNTRY.

MMIGRATION HAS NEVER BEEN JUST ABOUT IMMIGRATION POLICY TO ME.

IT'SALWAYS BEEN ABOUT WHO WE ARE AS A COUNTRY .

AND WE HAVE THRIVED BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO TAKE PEOPLE FROM OTHER COUNTRIES WHO ARE SEEKING REFUGE, YES, BUT ALSO WHO ADD SO MUCH TO WHO WE ARE AS A COUNTRY.

IMMIGRANTS HAVE BUILT OUR RAILROADS, BUILT SO MUCH OF OUR INFRASTRUCTURE, CONTRIBUTED TO OURSERVICES, TO THE DOCTORS AND LAWYERS AND PROFESSIONALS ACROSS THE COUNTRY .

THEY ARE INNOVATORS, THEY ARE WOMEN WHO KEEP FAMILIES TOGETHER.

THIS IS THE NATURE OF WHO WE ARE AS A COUNTRYO TURN OUR BACK ON IMMIGRATION AS A CORE COMPETENCY AND POLICY VALUE OF THE UNITED STATES IS NOT JUST DEEPLY HURTFUL, WHICH IT IS, BUT VERY, VERY DETRIMENTAL TO THE GROWTH AND WELL-BEING IN THE FUTURE OF AMERICA.

>> Bonnie: YOU HAVE, WHAT, FOUR BILLS ON IMMIGRATION, RIGHT?

DO ANY OF THEM HAVE A CHANCE OF BECOMING LAW WITH A REPUBLICAN SENATE, WITH DONALD TRUMP IN THE WHITE HOUSE?

IF NOT, HOW LONG BEFORE YOU THINK THEY WILL HAVE A BETTER CHANCE OF BECOMING LAW?

>> Rep. Jayapal: I PRIDE MYSELF ON LAYING OUT A PROPOSITION AGENDA FOR DEMOCRATS ON IMMIGRATION.

AND SOMETIMES PROPOSITION AGENDA IS MEAN THAT YOU HAVE TO LAY OUT A VISION AND YOU HAVE TO WORK TO GET IT.

SO THEY ARE SENSIBLE BILLS THAT SHOULD ABSOLUTELY BE PUT INTO LAW, ONE FOR EXAMPLE IS CALLED DIGNITY FOR DETAINED IMMIGRANTS.

IT SAYS THAT AMERICAN TAXPAYERS SHOULD NOT BE SPENDING ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF MONEY INCARCERATING IMMIGRANTS WHO SHOULD NOT BE IN JAIL TO START WITH IN FOR-PROFIT PERSONS.

I WANT MY TAXPAYER DOLLARS WASTED IN THAT WAY, AND I CERTAINLY DON'T WANT PEOPLE JAILED AND INCARCERATED WHO SHOULD NOT BE, BECAUSE THEY'VE NEVER BEEN CHARGED WITH A CRIME MUCH LESSCOMMITTED A CRIME .

AND THAT IS THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE 56,000 IMMIGRANTS WHO ARE INCARCERATED EVERY SINGLE DAY.

SO WE WERE ABLE TO HAVE THE FIRST HEARING ON THAT BILL IN THE IMMIGRATION SUBCOMMITTEE, AND I CHEERED THAT HEARING.

IT WAS REALLY FANTASTIC TO JUST SEE THAT ISSUE THAT I'VE WORKED ON FOR A DECADE MOVE FORWARD.

I AM NOT A SHORT-TERM THINKER.

I BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE TO BUILD THE MOVEMENT AND WE HAVE TO EDUCATE PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT EVEN THOUGH THIS BILL PROBABLY WILL NOT BE ENACTED BY THIS PRESIDENT, NONE OF THESE WILL, NOT EVEN REASONABLE PROPOSALS TO KEEP REFUGEE ADMISSIONS AT 110,000, ALWAYS A BIPARTISAN PRIORITY.

>> Bonnie: KNOCKED DOWN AT THIS POINT TO A BELIEVE 18,000?

>> Rep. Jayapal: 18,000, LOWEST LEVEL IN HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY.

YOU KNOW WHAT'S SO CRAZY ABOUT THAT, BONNIE, IS IN WASHINGTON STATE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE VIETNAMESE POPULATION CAME AS REFUGEES, VIETNAMESE AMERICANS NOW CAME AS REFUGEES, BROUGHT BY A REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR DONNA DAN EVANS WAS ESSENTIAL IN THAT.

THAT IS TRUE AND STATES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

EVEN ANGELICAL ASSOCIATION HAS CALLED OUR REFUGEE RESETTLEMENT PROGRAM THE CROWN JEWEL OF AMERICAN HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE.

AND YET THIS IS WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS TRYING TO TAKE AWAY.

>> Bonnie: AND THE EVANGELICALS ARE HIS FACE.

I MEAN THAT -- >> Rep. Jayapal: THEY ARE.

>> Bonnie: HOW DO YOU SQUARE THAT?

IF THEY ARE SO CONCERNED ABOUT IMMIGRANTS, WHY DO THEY SUPPORT A PRESIDENT WHO CALLS THEM CRIMINALS AND RAPISTS?

>> Rep. Jayapal: THAT IS THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION.T'S TRUE ON OTHER THINGS, TOO.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT FAITH, THE FAITH COMMUNITY HAS BEEN ONE OF OUR STRONGEST ALLIES IN PUSHING FOR IMMIGRATION REFORM.

PUSHING FOR A REAL SOLUTION TO OUR BROKEN IMMIGRATION SYSTEM.

>> Bonnie: ARE THESE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO ARE VOTING FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP?

>> Rep. Jayapal: SOME, SON.

NOT ALL.

I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE OF FAITH WHO THINK THAT WHAT HE'S DOING IS REPREHENSIBLE.

THERE ARE A LOT OF REPUBLICANS WHO THINK WHAT HE'S DOING IS REPREHENSIBLE.

I REMEMBER WHEN LAURA BUSH WROTE AN ARTICLE, AN OP-ED IN THE NEW YORK TIMES SAYING THAT FAMILY SEPARATIONS WERE HORRIBLE.

I FORGET THE EXACT WORDS SHE USED, BUT THESE SHOULD NOT BE DEMOCRATIC CONCERNS.

THEY SHOULD BE HUMAN CONCERNS ABOUT HOW WE TREAT PEOPLE WITH DIGNITY AND RESPECT.

AND I DO BELIEVE THAT AS MUCH AS DONALD TRUMP WANTS TO USE IMMIGRANTS TO SHORE UP HIS BASE, HE IS LOSING INDEPENDENT VOTERS, WOMEN VOTERS WHO CANNOT SEE ANY REASON THAT WE SHOULD BE SEPARATING BABIES FROM THEIR MOMS AND DADS, CANNOT SEE ANY REASON WHY WE WOULD NOT WELCOME REFUGEES INTO THE COUNTRY, CANNOT SEE A REASON WHY WE HAVE TO INCARCERATE ASYLUM-SEEKERS WHO ARE TRYING TO ESCAPE POLITICAL VIOLENCE IN THEIR COUNTRIES.

>> Bonnie: LET'S TALK A BIT ABOUT YOUR SPONSORSHIP OF MEDICARE FOR ALL.

FIRST OF ALL, YOU ARE A MAJOR PROPONENT -- OF COURSE BERNIE SANDERS AND YOU HAVEN'T ENDORSED HIM FOUR YEARS AGO WHEN HE RAN.

WILL YOU WILL ENDORSED HIM AGAIN THIS TIME.

>> Rep. Jayapal: I'VE NOT MADE AN ENDORSEMENT YET.

I WORK VERY CLOSELY WITH SENATOR SANDERS,OBVIOUSLY, ON MEDICARE FOR ALL AND MY COLLEGE FOR ALL BILL .

AND SO, YOU KNOW, HE'S VERY DEAR TO ME.

I ALSO WORK VERY CLOSELY WITH OTHER CANDIDATES WHO ARE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT AND THE MAIN COSPONSOR OF ELIZABETH WARREN'S ANTICORRUPTION BILL.

AND I'VE CONTINUE TO WORK WITH HER ON A NUMBER OF THINGS, KAMALA HARRIS, CORY BOOKER.

SO I HAVE NOT FIGURED OUT WHAT I'M DOING YET IN THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, BUT WHAT REALLY EXCITES ME IS THE STRENGTH OF THE PROGRESSIVE IDEAS THAT BERNIE AND ELIZABETH IN PARTICULAR ARE PUTTING FORWARD.

THEIR DEEP NEEDS THAT THEY ARE SPEAKING TO AROUND STRUCTURAL REFORM, HOW DO WE CHANGE THE STRUCTURES THAT EXIST SO THAT WE CAN HAVE EQUITY, EQUALITY, JUSTICE AT A TIME WHEN THREE PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA HAVE THE SAME COMBINED WEALTH AS 160 MILLION AMERICANS COMBINED, WE HAVE DEEP WORK TO DO TO REALLY MAKE SURE THAT THE OPPORTUNITY THAT WAS AVAILABLE TO ME AS A 16-YEAR-OLD WHO CAME HERE AS AN IMMIGRANT WITH NOTHING IN MY POCKETS BY MYSELF, AND NOW TO BE A CONGRESSWOMAN, THAT SHOULD BE AVAILABLE TO ANYBODY ACROSS AMERICA.

AND I DON'T THINK IT IS.> Bonnie: WHY, BECAUSE OF THE CHANGE IN WEALTH ACCUMULATION AND THE GROWING GAP BETWEEN RICH AND POOR?

>> Rep. Jayapal: YEAH.

IT'S COMPLICATED.

I THINK IT'S ON BOTH ENDS OF THE SPECTRUM.

SO ON THE BOTTOM END OF THE SPECTRUM, YOU HAVE WAGES THAT HAVE STAGNATED AND SO MANY PEOPLE, TENS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHO ARE WORKING 40 HOURS A WEEK, BUT THEY ARE NOT EARNING ENOUGH THAT THEY CAN ACTUALLY HOLD, YOU KNOW, PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE AND HAVE A ROOF OVER THEIR HEADS AND SEND A KID TO COLLEGE, MUCH LESS SAVE ANYTHING.

SO RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE IS CRITICAL.

AS YOU KNOW, THE MINIMUM WAGE HAS NOT BEEN RAISED, FEDERAL MINIMUM WAGE HAS NOT BEEN RAISED IN SO LONG.

AND IF WE HAD TIED IT TO INFLATION, IT WOULD BE OVER $21 AT THIS POINT.

IT IS AT 7.25.

THEY TIPPED MINIMUM WAGES EVEN LESSE ARE TAKING A WHOLE GROUP OF PARTICULARLY WOMEN, FOLKS OF COLOR WHO HAVE TO NOW RELY ON TIPS AS PART OF THEIR MINIMUM WAGE.

IT'S OUTRAGEOUS.

OUR RAISE THE WAGE ACT THAT WE PASSED AS DEMOCRATS IN THE HOUSE ADDRESS THAT.

WE GET A $15 MINIMUM WAGE AND WE ELIMINATE THE FEDERAL TIPPED MINIMUM WAGE.

SO THAT'S ONE PIECE OF IT.

THE OTHER PIECE OF IT IS THE OTHER SIDE, AND THIS IS A REALLY IMPORTANT PIECE WHICH IS THE LACK OF PAYING YOUR FAIR SHARE.

THIS IS FOR CORPORATIONS, THE WEALTHIEST PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY.

IF YOU LOOK AT HOW WEALTH IS TAXED IN THIS COUNTRY, YOU REALLY HAVE DISPROPORTIONATE AMOUNTS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE LOW INCOME OR MIDDLE INCOME WHO ARE PAYING ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF THEIR INCOME IN TAXES, BUT THE WEALTHIEST ARE NOT.

THE WEALTHIEST CORPORATIONS.

SO OUR TAX STRUCTURE HAS TO BE CHANGED, SO THAT A LITTLE BIT OF THAT THAT CONCERN CAN BE SHARED SO THAT PEOPLE CAN HAVE BASIC THINGS LIKE, YOU KNOW, PAID THAT PEOPLE CAN HAVE BASIC THINGS LIKE, YOU KNOW, PAID CHILDCARE, FAMILY LET MEDICAL LEAVE, ALL THESE THINGS THAT REALLY SHOULD BE ESSENTIAL IN A ä OF , ALL THESE THINGS THAT THE MOST ADVANCED AND ONE OF THE MOST RICH IN THE WORLD.

>> Bonnie: GETTING BACK TO MEDICARE FOR ALL, HOW WOULD YOU PAY FOR THAT?

>> Rep. Jayapal: WELL, THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT HEALTHCARE COSTS IN THIS COUNTRY, ONE OF MY FAVORITE TOPICS IS WE ARE PAYING $3.5 TRILLION A YEAR IN HEALTHCARE COSTS TODAY IN THIS COUNTRY.

IT IS GOING UP TO ALMOST 6 TRILLION OVER THE NEXT 10 YEARS .

AND THAT COST SHOULD BE THOUGHT OF AS A GIANT TAX ON AMERICANS.

RIGHT NOW, THE PEOPLE ARE PAYING.

IT COMES IN THE FORM OF OUT-OF-POCKET COSTS, DEDUCTIBLES, PRIVATE INSURANCE PREMIUMS.

SO LET'S NOT THINK ABOUT THIS SEPARATE FROM WHAT WE ARE CURRENTLY PAYINGEDICARE FOR ALL -- >> Bonnie: DOES THAT THREE-POINT FOR 5 TRILLION YOU MENTIONED, DOES THAT INCLUDE MEDICARE?

>> Rep. Jayapal: YES, IT DOES.

ABOUT TWO THIRDS OF THE TOTAL AMOUNT IS PAID FOR BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT RIGHT NOW, MEDICARE, MEDICAID, INSURANCE SUBSIDIES.

AND THE REST OF IT IS PAID FOR BY INDIVIDUALS, YOU AND ME WHEN WE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY OUT-OF-POCKET COST OR DEDUCTIBLE OR PREMIUM, OR THROUGH CORPORATIONS.

SO CORPORATIONS ARE PAYING ABOUT THREE QUARTERS OF $1 TRILLION IN PRIVATE INSURANCE PREMIUMS.

THEY ARE PAYING IT TO THE INSURANCE COMPANIES, THEY COULD CERTAINLY PAY ALL OR A PORTION OF THAT TO THE GOVERNMENT.

AND THE DOLLARS THAT YOU AND I ARE SPENDING, IF YOU COULD SPEND LESS THAN THAT AND YOU COULD GET MORE FOR IT, WOULDN'T YOU WANT TO DO THAT?

BECAUSE RIGHT NOW YOU ARE SPENDING THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY BUT YOU ARE NOT EVEN GETTING CONFERENCE OF CARE.

THE BIGGEST INSURANCE PROGRAM PEOPLE GET -- GO TO HIS GOFUNDME.

THAT'S UNSUSTAINABLE.

BUT ON TOP OF THAT, YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO CANNOT AFFORD INSULIN TREATMENTS, CANNOT AFFORD THE CANCER TREATMENTS, GET A SURPRISE BILL THAT'S $20,000, MORTGAGE THEIR HOMES, CUT THEREFORE PHARMACEUTICAL DRUGS AND HAVE SO THAT THEY CAN, YOU KNOW, TRY TO PUSH OUT THE PRESCRIPTIONS LONGER.

THAT'S UNACCEPTABLE.

70 MILLION AMERICANS WHO ARE EITHER UNINSURED OR UNDERINSURED.

AND TENS OF MILLIONS MORE WHO SIMPLY CANNOT AFFORD THEIR HEALTHCARE, EVEN WHEN THEY HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE.

MEDICARE FOR ALL, EVEN BY CONSERVATIVE CO-BROTHERS ESTIMATES, WOULD COST THREE-POINT $2 TRILLION A YEAR.

THAT'S SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN THE 3.5 TRILLION THAT WE CURRENTLY EXPEND ON HEALTHCARE AND CERTAINLY MUCH, MUCH LESS THAN 6 TRILLION.

SO YOU'VE GOT TO COVER EVERYONE AND YOU HAVE TO CONTAIN COSTS.

THE ONLY WAY TO DO THAT, REALLY, IS THERE A SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH CARE SYSTEM LIKE MEDICARE FOR ALL.

>> Bonnie: SO YOU WILL TAKE ALL THE -- I'M PRESUMING AS PART OF THE PACKAGE, YOU WOULD TAKE ALL THE MONEY THAT'S GOING TO INSURANCE COMPANIES TO DECIDE WHO AND WHAT GETS PAID WHO ARE INSURED AND USE IT OPLE INSTEAD TO FUND THE ACTUAL HEALTHCARE SYSTEM?

PAY DOCTORS, PAY HOSPITALS.

>> Rep. Jayapal: RIGHT.

MEDICARE FOR ALL KEEPS THE SAME NETWORK OF DOCTORS AND HOSPITALS EXCEPT YOU ACTUALLY HAVE REAL CHOICE THAT'S NOT DICTATED BY AN INSURANCE COMPANY, THAT SAYS THESE HOSPITALS AND DOCTORS ARE OUT-OF-NETWORK AND YOU CANNOT SEE THESE PEOPLE EVEN IF THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES YOU CAN GET TO.

WITH MEDICARE FOR ALL, IT'S A MUCH BIGGER NETWORK OF DOCTORS AND HOSPITALS THAT YOU CAN SEE.

YOU CAN KEEP USING DOCTORS AND HOSPITALS, BUT YOU CUT OUT THE ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS OF THESE PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANIES THAT, YOU KNOW, ABOUT 25ö0 PERCENT OF TOTAL HEALTHCARE COSTS GO TO ADMINISTRATION.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT MEDICARE, MEDICARE IS ONLY ABOUT 2 PERCENT ADMINISTRATION COSTS.

IT GOES UP TO ABOUT SIX OR 7 PERCENT IF YOU INCLUDE SOME OF THE MEDICARE ADVANTAGE PRIVATE INSURANCE PLANS TO ADMINISTER THOSE.

BUT IN ANY SCENARIO, IT SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANIES WHO, FRANKLY, SPEND A LOT OF MONEY ON THEIR CEO SALARIES AND ADMINISTRATIVE WASTE.

WHY SHOULD THE TAXPAYER HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT?

WHY DO WE HAVE A SYSTEM IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA THAT PUTS PROFITS OVER PATIENTS?

WE NEED TO HAVE A SYSTEM THAT ENSURES THAT HEALTHCARE IS A RIGHT AND NOT A PRIVILEGE, JUST RESERVED FOR THE WEALTHIEST.

>> Bonnie: ARE THERE ANY REPUBLICANS WHO SUPPORT MEDICARE FOR ALL?

>> Rep. Jayapal: THERE ARE LOTS OF INDEPENDENTS AND REPUBLICANS ACROSS THE COUNTRY TO SUPPORT MEDICARE FOR ALL, BUT HEARING CONGRESS, NO, THEY LIKE TO CALL -- THEY LIKE TO TERMINATE ALL KINDS OF CRAZY THINGS LIKE SOCIALIST.

I ALWAYS THINK ABOUT HOW TEDDY ROOSEVELT, YOU KNOW, AND LYNDON JOHNSON, JUST ABOUT ANYONE WHO PROPOSED ANY MAJOR PROGRAM WAS DEALT THE SAME THING WHERE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE TRIED TO TAR A PROGRAM THAT HAS UNIVERSAL BENEFIT AND IS NECESSARY FOR LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPYNESS BY CALLING IT SOCIALIST.

SO THEY HAVE NO BETTER PLAN.

UNDER THE REPUBLICANS, THEY HAVE CONTINUED TO UNDERMINE HEALTHCARE IN THIS COUNTRY, STRIP THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT.

WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOMETHING REALLY PHENOMENAL, WHICH IS ALLOW AMERICANS TO GO TO BED AT NIGHT AND WAKE UP IN THE MORNING NOT WORRYING ABOUT HOW THEY ARE GOING TO PAY THESE UNBELIEVABLY HIGH HEALTHCARE COSTS.

>> Bonnie: AND YOU SAY TAXES WOULD NOT HAVE TO GO UP AT ALL, INCLUDING, FOR EXAMPLE -- IF YOU INCLUDE PREMIUMS FOR PRIVATE HEALTHCARE, INSURANCE, THAT THE BUDGET THAT THE AVERAGE FAMILY SPENDS WOULD GO DOWN?

>> Rep. Jayapal: WOULD GO DOWN TO THE AVERAGE FAMILY WOULD SPEND LESS ON HEALTHCARE COSTS THAN THEY DO TODAY, BECAUSE, REMEMBER, EVEN IF YOU BUY INSURANCE ON THE MARKETPLACE, THE AVERAGE FAMILY IS SPENDING ABOUT $20,000 A YEAR ON HEALTHCARE COSTS.

SO YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT WHAT THE SYSTEM IS COSTING PEOPLE TODAY.

AND EVEN EMPLOYERS ARE FACING THIS.

YOU KNOW, EMPLOYER COSTS ARE GOING UP SUBSTANTIALLY.

AND THEY ARE PAYING FOR SOME OF IT ON THEIR OWN, MAKING THEM LESS COMPETITIVE THAN ALL THE OTHER COUNTERPARTS IN EUROPE WHERE, YOU KNOW, THOSE INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRIES ARE PURE COUNTRIES PROVIDE HEALTHCARE FOR EVERYONE THROUGH A SIMILAR KIND OF GOVERNMENT SYSTEM WITH SOME CHANGES, OF COURSE.

BUT THEY ARE HAVING TROUBLE COMPETING.

AND SO -- AND THEN FOR SMALL BUSINESSES, THIS IS INTERESTING.

WE HAVE A NEW MEDICARE -- PRESENCES FOR MEDICARE FOR ALL COALITION.

THERE ARE A LOT OF SMALL AND MEDIUM-SIZE BUSINESSES WHO ARE JUST BEGGING US TO PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DO MEDICARE FOR ALL BECAUSE IT'S HURTING THEIR BOTTOM LINE, BUT ALSO THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE HEALTHCARE FOR THEIR EMPLOYEES AND DON'T WANT TO LOSE EMPLOYEES BECAUSE THEY CANNOT PROVIDE HEALTHCARE.

SO WE HAVE MADE TREMENDOUS PROGRESS ON THIS.

WE HAVE A LETTER THAT'S SIGNED BY OVER 250 ECONOMISTS TALKING ABOUT HOW THIS IS NECESSARY.

THERE WAS A GREAT PHRASE THAT WARREN BUFFETT USES: HE SAYS OUR CURRENT HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IS THE TAPEWORM OF ECONOMIC COMPETITIVENESS IN AMERICA.

IT'S HOLDING US BACK.

WE HAVE AN INCREDIBLE COALITION OF UNIONS.

YOU ARE NOT ALWAYS KNOW IT LISTENING TO THE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES, BUT I TELL YOU, REMARKABLE COALITION OF UNIONS THAT IS SUPPORTING HEALTHCARE BECAUSE THEY REALLY SEE THAT STAGNANT WAGES OF THEIR WORKERS IS DIRECTLY TIED TO THE RISING COST OF HEALTHCARE.

>> Bonnie: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

THIS HAS BEEN EXTREMELY ENLIGHTENING.

REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

THAT'S IT FOR THIS ADDITION.

PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE, PBS.org/TOTHECONTRARY.

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