CHARLES A. FRUEAUFF FOUNDATION.

[MUSIC] >> Bonnie: HELLO AND WELCOME TO "TO THE CONTRARY".

I AM A BONNIE ERBE, THE HOST.

WE ARE VERY LUCKY THIS WEEK TO HAVE SENATOR KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND OF NEW YORK, DEMOCRAT, WITH US TALKING FOR A HALF-HOUR ABOUT THE IMPACT OF THE CORONAVIRUS, THE COVID-19 EPIDEMIC ON THE COUNTRY AND ALSO PARTICULARLY IN NEW YORK STATE, WHICH ARE AS WE ALL KNOW, NEW YORK CITY IS AN EPICENTER FOR THE VIRUS.

WHAT DOES NEW YORK NEED THAT NEW YORK CITY NEED THAT IT DOESN'T HAVE RIGHT NOW?

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: WELL, RIGHT NOW IT DOES NOT HAVE THE LEVEL OF TESTING THAT WOULD ALLOW PEOPLE TO FEEL COMFORTABLE THAT THEY KNOW YOU HAVEN'T BEEN EXPOSED.

WE NEED TESTING ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WRAPPING -- RAPID TESTING SO YOU COULD ACTUALLY GET YOUR RESULT WITHIN 15 MINUTES.

RIGHT NOW THE ONLY PEOPLE BEING TESTED ARE THOSE WHO WERE SECOND GOING HOSPITALS.

IF WE EVER WANT TO OPEN OUR SCHOOLS BACK OPEN OR SOCIETY, WE ARE GOING TO NEED READILY AVAILABLE TESTING FOR EVERYONE, UNIVERSAL TESTING.

EVERY SCHOOL SHOULD HAVE RAPID TESTS, RIGHT?

YOU KNOW, AVAILABLE FOR EVERY STUDENT BEFORE THEY COME BACK.

SO WE ARE JUST REALLY IN NEED OF TESTING.

SECOND, WE STILL DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT, THE PPE, MASKS, THE GOWNS, THE SHIELDS THAT OUR GROCERY STORE WORKERS NEED, OUR FOOD STORE WORKERS NEED, OUR PHARMACISTS NEED, OUR NURSES AND DOCTORS NEEDOST HOSPITALS IN OUR STATE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PPE AND ARE NOW CLEANING IT AND REUSING IT BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH.

AND THEN LAST, WE STILL NEED MORE VENTILATORS.

I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE MAKE SURE WE HAVE ENOUGH VENTILATORS FOR EACH COMMUNITY AS IT SURGES AT A DIFFERENT TIME.

THEY WILL NEED THOSE VENTILATORS.

SO WE JUST NEED MORE EQUIPMENT, MORE TESTING AND MORE VENTILATORS.

>> Bonnie: YOUR GOVERNOR, ANDREW CUOMO, HAS, YOU KNOW, BEEN A NATIONAL PRESENCE ON THIS STORY.

CLEARLY, HE'S BEEN LOBBYING FOR THE STUFF FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

IS IT THE STATE'S FAULT YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH OF THIS EQUIPMENT AND PARAFFIN OIL FOR -- THE LIFESAVING PARAPHERNALIA OF GLOVES AND MASKS, ETC., OR IS IT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S FAULT.

>>>.

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: I THINK IT'S FROM'S FAULT BECAUSE HE DID NOT TAKE THIS CRISIS SERIOUSLY EARLY.

IF HE HAD USED THE DEFENSE PRODUCTION ACT AS EARLY AS JANUARY AND STARTED STOCKPILING MASKS AND GOWNS AND VENTILATORS, ALL THINGS HE KNEW HE WOULD NEED IF HE HAD RAMPED UP TESTING AND MADE-UP CAPACITY AVAILABLE IN ALL 50 STATES RIGHT AWAY, WE WOULD HAVE HAD MORE VENDORS BE AVAILABLE TODAY TO SELL TESTING KITS AND RAPID TESTING.

HE DIDN'T DO ANY OF THAT.

HE STILL NOT USING THE DEFENSE PRODUCTION ACT EFFECTIVELY TO RAMP UP TESTING.

HE'S JUST NOT USE THE POWER OR THE LEVERS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO SOLVE THESE BIG PROBLEMS.

>> Bonnie: DO YOU THINK MOST AMERICANS UNDERSTAND THAT AT THIS POINT?

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: I DON'T KNOW.

BUT I KNOW THAT MOST AMERICANS ARE WORRIED AND THEY ARE AFRAID FOR THEIR FAMILIES AND THEIR COMMUNITIES, AND THEY HAVE A REASON TO BE AFRAID.

THIS VIRUS IS KILLING PEOPLE ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

OUR MOST VULNERABLE CITIZENS ARE REALLY TRULY AT RISK.

AND WITHOUT TESTING, THERE IS NO LEVEL OF CONFIDENCE THAT WE DON'T HAVE SUPER SPREADERS, THE ASYMPTOMATIC PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE DISEASE BUT DON'T KNOW WHAT.

AND WITHOUT ACCESS TO TESTING, IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT FOR US TO GET UP AND RUNNING AND HAVE CONFIDENCE THAT IF WE GO OUT WE CAN BE SAFE.

>> Bonnie: HAVE YOU BEEN TO ANY OF THE EPICENTERS?

I KNOW THE NEW YORK TIMES, ONE OF THE REPORTERS WENT TO MONTEFIORE, I THINK IT IS, IN THE BRONX , HOSPITAL, AND SAW ALL THE CHAOS THAT IS GOING ON, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DYING ALONE.

IT'S INCREDIBLE.

THEY PUT YOU IN A HAZMAT SUIT OR WHATEVER, PUT YOU IN AN ICU AND YOU DON'T LET ANYONE NEAR YOU OR USE A PHONE.

ANTIDRUG PEOPLE BECAUSE IT'S VERY UNCOMFORTABLE TO HAVE A RESPIRATOR SHOVED DOWN YOUR VOCAL CORDS, AS I HAD IN AN OPERATION MANY, MANY YEARS AGO.

I KNOW I COULD NOT TALK FOR SIX WEEKS.

IT WAS AWFUL.

BUT I WAS NOT IN AN ICU AND I COULD TALK TO PEOPLE.

THESE PEOPLE ARE DYING ALONE AMIDST CHAOS.

IT'S JUST HORRIBLE.

HAVE YOU BEEN THERE?

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: I HAVEN'T, I HAVEN'T BEEN IN ANY HOSPITAL.

BUT I'VE TALKED TO THE HEADS OF THE HOSPITALS ALL ACROSS NEW YORK.

AND I'VE BEEN TEXTING WITH ONE OF THE EMERGENCY WORKERS WHO VOLUNTEERED AT ONE OF OUR BROOKLYN HOSPITALS.

AND I HAVE ASKED HER, CAN SHE SKYPE ME IN WHICH HE CHECKS IN FOR HER DUTY IN THE MORNING?

INCH SO WE ARE GOING TO SET THAT UP SO I CAN ACTUALLY WATCH WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE HOSPITAL AND HOW HARD IT IS FOR FIRST RESPONDERS, FOR OUR NURSES, FOUR WERE MEDICAL TECHNICIANS AND MEDICAL SUPPORT STAFF.

IT'S HARD.

AND PEOPLE ARE LOSING HOPE.

AND THEY GET DISCOURAGED.

BUT THE TRUTH IS NEW YORKERS ARE RESILIENT.

WE ARE VERY STRONG PEOPLE.

IN THIS COUNTRY IS BUILT ON THE BACKS OF STRONG PEOPLE WHO FIGHT AND NEVER GIVE UP.ND SO, I KNOW THAT WE WILL GET THROUGH THIS.

AND IT WOULD BE A LOT EASIER IF WE HAD THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WORKING AT FULL TILT TO HELP.

>> Bonnie: BUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SAY NEW YORK, I WAS BORN IN BROOKLYN, RAISED IN MANHATTAN, AND ANOTHER CITY EXTREMELY WELL.

AND YOU'RE FROM ALBANY.

AND NEW YORK IS SO MORE, IF YOU LOOK AT A MAP, THERE IS SO MUCH MORE AGRICULTURAL AREAS THAN THERE ARE IN THE CITY.

AND WHEN TO ASK YOU ABOUT A BILL YOU HAVE HELPING FARMERS IN A SECOND.

BUT FIRST I WANT TO ASK YOU, THERE'VE BEEN REPORTS THAT AFTER THIS, CITY DENSITIES ARE GOING TO GO DOWN.

PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO WANT TO LIVE IN CITIES, HAVING SEEN HOW MUCH WORSE LIVING THROUGH A PANDEMIC IS b ÃÃIN NEW YORK CITY IS THE BIGGEST PART, THE MOST POPULATED PART OF NEW YORK STATE.

DO YOU EXPECT NEW YORK CITY TO SHRINK AFTER THE COVID VIRUS, OR DO YOU EXPECT IT TO BOUNCE BACK?

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT NEW YORK AS BEING RESILIENT.

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: I THINK IT WILL BOUNCE BACK.

PEOPLE MAY MAKE CHOICES ABOUT WHERE THEY WANT TO LIVE, BUT ONE OF THE ADVANTAGES OF BEING IN A CITY LIKE NEW YORK IS WE HAVE THE BEST HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IN THE WORLD.

IN SOME OF OUR HOSPITALS ARE AT THE FOREFRONT OF SAVING LIVES RIGHT NOW.

SO FOR SOME PEOPLE, THEY WOULD RATHER BE IN A PLACE THAT HAS A REALLY STRONG HOSPITAL NETWORK AND HAS ALL THE RESOURCES THEY NEED, WHETHER IT'S SUPERMARKETS AND PHARMACIES OR WHATEVER THEY THINK THEY WILL NEED FOR THIS EPIDEMIC.

SO I THINK PEOPLE MAKE THE SAME CHOICES THEY MAKE NOW.

SOME PEOPLE HAVE RETREATED TO THE SUBURBS AND TO THE RURAL AREAS OF THE STATE.

THEY'VE GONE UP STATE, THEY'VE GONE TO LONG ISLAND.

AND PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO SHELTER IN PLACE WHEREVER THEY CAN IN MAKING THE BEST OF THESE MOMENTS.

BUT IT'S BEEN REALLY TOUGH ON PEOPLE, ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN UNEMPLOYED, MORE THAN 20 MILLION PEOPLE HAVE NOW FILED FOR UNEMPLOYMENT.

THEY HAVE NO INCOME COMING IN.

IN THESE CHECKS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS READY TO THEM IS SMALL, YOU KNOW, SMALL BALL, DROP IN THE BUCKET OF THEIR NEED.

AND SO, WE ARE JUST TRYING TO GET MORE MONEY OUT TO GET THE MORE RELIEF AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

THAT'S WHAT THE NEXT COVID 3.5 BILL WILL BE, MORE MONEY FOR CITIES AND STATES, MORE MONEY FOR HOSPITALS, MORE MONEY FOR SMALL BUSINESSES, PARTICULARLY THOSE WHO ARE BEING LEFT BEHIND WHO CAN'T GET ACCESS TO THE LENDING FROM THE SBA BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH BIG BANKS.

WE WANT THE MONEY TO GO WHERE IT'S NEEDED.

AND LAST, WE WILL MAKE SURE THERE IS MONEY FOR FOOD IN THIS NEXT BILL FOR FOOD STAMPS AND FOR COMMUNITY KITCHENS AND FOR FOOD BANKS, BECAUSE WE DESPERATELY NEED PEOPLE TO NOT STARVE DURING THIS CRISIS.

>> Bonnie: WAS THERE NO MONEY FOR FOOD IN THE FIRST RELIEF BILL?

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: NOPE.

IT WAS A STUMBLING BLOCK FOR REPUBLICANS.

THEY WERE NOT SUPPORTED.E ARE HOPEFUL TO GET MORE MONEY THIS TIME.

>> Bonnie: NOW LET'S GET TO YOUR b ÃÃWHAT DOES YOUR AGRICULTURAL BILL DUE FOR UPSTATE NEW YORKERS WERE THERE ARE TONS OF FARMS?

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: I HAVE TWO BILLS I INTRODUCE THIS WEEK TO DO WITH THE PANDEMIC, PARTICULARLY FOR RURAL AMERICA: ONE IS REALLY FOR OUR SMALL FARMERS, ALLOWING THEM TO HAVE DEBT RELIEF UP TO $250,000 FROM USDA DEBT; THE SECOND IS A FUND OF $53 BILLION TO FUND SMALL BEAUTIES, SMALL TOWNS AND SMALL COUNTIES, COUNTIES UNDER 200,000 PEOPLE, CITIES UNDER 50,000 PEOPLE TO HAVE GRANTS SPECIFICALLY FOR THOSE COMMUNITIES TO GET OUT AND TO HELP THEIR SMALL BUSINESSES, THEIR PROGRAMS, THEIR COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS, EVERYTHING NEEDED IN THOSE RURAL AREAS.

SO THOSE TWO BILLS TOGETHER I THINK CAN BE SUPPORT, LIFE SUPPORT FOR SOME OF THE RURAL AREAS OF OUR STATE.

>> Bonnie: DO YOU EXPECT THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY IN THE SENATE TO GO ALONG WITH IT?

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: AM HOPEFUL.

THEY ARE THE KIND OF IDEAS THAT SHOULD BE BIPARTISAN AND SHOULD BE COMMON SENSE, SO I'M OPTIMISTIC.

>> Bonnie: DO YOU HAVE A TIMELINE FOR WHEN THIS WILL BE DONE?

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: THE $50 BILLION FUND IS IN SENATOR SCHUMER'S RESPONSE TO SENATOR McCONNELL AND SO IT'S ALREADY IN AND HOPEFULLY IT STAYS IN.

THAT WOULD BE GOOD.

IN THE AGRICULTURAL BILL FOR THE BILL AND HOPING WE CAN GET INTO COVID FOUR.

>> Bonnie: COVID FOUR b ¦¦ >> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: WE ARE JUST STARTING TO WORK ON COVID FOUR NOW.

WE HAVE PASSED THREE BILLS SO FAR, 3.5 IS JUST AN EXTENSION OF WHAT WE DID IN THE THIRD BILL, ADDING MORE MONEY.

AND THEN COVID FOUR WILL BE BIGGER IDEAS ABOUT HOW TO REBUILD THE ECONOMY.

I WOULD LIKE THAT BILL TO HAVE NATIONAL PAY LEAVE, I'D LIKE YOU TO HAVE THE MONEY FOR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE BUT ALSO SICK DAYS, TWO WEEKS' SICK DAYS FOR EVERY WORKER, I WANT TO BUILD HAVE MONEY FOR A MASSIVE IN STRUCTURE INVESTMENTS SO WE CAN REBUILD THE COUNTRY, JOB TRAINING, PUBLIC SERVICE, ALLOWING PEOPLE TO BE THIS HELP KILL COURTS TO DEAL WITH THE EPIDEMIC, TO DO THE MASSIVE TESTING WE NEED AND HAVE ALL STUDENT DEBT BE VITIATED FOR THOSE WHO ARE WILLING TO DO PUBLIC SERVICE.

SO THE NEXT BILL IS GOING TO BE IMPORTANT BUT FAR MORE EXPANSIVE THAN WHAT WE'VE DONE TO DATE.

>> Bonnie: YOU ARE A HUGE ADVOCATE FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

YOU HAD AN AMENDMENT TO A MILITARY WILL TO CHANGE THE WAY WOMEN IN THE SERVICE WHO WERE SEXUALLY ASSAULTED REPORT THOSE CRIMES AND MAKE IT EASIER FOR THEM TO DO SO.

HAVE YOU SEEN A BIGGER IMPACT ON WOMEN AND FAMILIES, PARTICULARLY OF COLOR, WITH COVID-19 THAN OTHER GROUPS OF PEOPLE?

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: YES.

SADLY, WE'VE SEEN AN INCREASE IN SOME PLACES UP TO 30 PERCENT, PLACES AROUND NEW YORK 15bÖÖ0 PERCENT INCREASE OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, BECAUSE IF YOU ARE STAYING HOME AND SHELTERING IN PLACE, NOT EVERYONE'S HOME IS SAFE.

AND SO, IF YOU ARE COOPED UP WITH YOUR ABUSER, THINGS CAN GET VERY, VERY DANGEROUS VERY QUICKLY.

SO THAT'S WHAT WE'VE SEEN.

I'VE TALKED TO OUR HOMELESS SHELTERS IN OUR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SHELTERS.

THERE IS A NEED FOR MORE BEDS.

THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH BEDS BECAUSE THEY CANNOT PUT PEOPLE TOGETHER.

NORMALLY THEY COULD PUT TWO SINGLE WOMEN TOGETHER IN THE BEDROOM AND SHARE THE BEDROOM, BUT BECAUSE OF COVID, THEY CANNOT SHARE THE BEDROOM.

THEY HAVE TO SEPARATE SIX FEET APART.

THEY HAVE LESS BEDS.

SO THEY ARE WORKING WITH SOCIAL SERVICES RIGHT NOW TO TRY TO USE HOTELS THAT ARE NOT BEING USED BECAUSE NO ONE IS TRAVELING AS SHELTERS FOR HOMELESS AND DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SURVIVORS.

AND OUR SOCIAL SERVICES AROUND THE STATE ARE WORKING OVERTIME TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

>> Bonnie: THE INSTITUTE FOR WOMEN'S POLICY RESEARCH IN D.C. HAS CALLED THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC A RALLYING CRY FOR PAID LEAVE AND MORE b HANGING THE WAY AMERICANS WORK SO DOESN'T ALL HAVE TO BE FACEb Ob ACE, MAKING IT b ÃÃARE WE GOING TO SEE A REVOLUTION IN HOW WORK HAPPENS IN AMERICA BECAUSE OF COVID-19, AND WILL BE SEE ANYTHING LEGISLATIVELY ON THAT FRONT?

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: I CERTAINLY HOPE SO.

AFTER THE GREAT DEPRESSION, GOVERNMENT RESPONDED BY CREATING SAFETY NETS BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE DYING IN POVERTY AND HUNGER.

SO THEY CREATED SOCIAL SECURITY.

I HOPE AFTER THIS PANDEMIC, WE CREATE NATIONAL PAY LEAVE, PAID FOR FAMILY MEDICAL LEAVE AS WELL AS UNIVERSAL SIX DAYS.

THE SAFETY NETS WILL TRANSFORM HOW WE CAN MANAGE THE NEXT CRISIS AND THE NEXT CRISIS.

IF WE ALREADY HAVE PAID LEAVE IN PLACE, IT WOULD'VE MEANT EVERYONE COULD HAVE TAKEN THREE MONTHS OFF TO BE HOME WITH THEIR CHILDREN WENT OUT OF SCHOOL TO DEAL WITH AN ILLNESS OF A LOVED ONE, TO DEAL WITH THEIR OWN ILLNESS, NOT LOSE THEIR JOB, AND HAVE A FUND THAT WILL PAY THE SALARY DURING THAT TIME.

SO IF IT WAS AN ESSENTIAL BUSINESS, THEY COULD THEN FIND A REPLACEMENT WORKER.

THAT WOULD HAVE MADE EVERYTHING WERE DOING RIGHT NOW SO MUCH EASIER.

INTO NOT HAVE UNIVERSAL SIX DAYS HAS PROVEN TO BE VERY DIFFICULT.

BECAUSE, FOR EXAMPLE, WE JUST READ STORIES ABOUT FOOD PROCESSORS, MEN AND WOMEN WORKING SHOULDER TO SHOULDER TO PATRICK IN ORDER TO PACK PORK.

THE ENTIRE PORK PRODUCTION FACTORY IN SOUTH DAKOTA, I THINK THEY HAD HUNDREDS OF CASES.

THEY HAD TO SHUT DOWN THE PLANTS BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR THEY ARE DID NOT SEE FIT TO PROTECT WORKERS OR TO ASK PEOPLE TO STAY HOME OR TO DO ANYTHING IN RESPONSE TO COVID.

THAT SHOWS WHAT.JUDGMENT THAT KIND OF LEADERSHIP CAN LEAD TO.

WE WOULD BE DOING SO MUCH BETTER IF WE HAD THIS KIND OF UNIVERSAL SICK DAYS BECAUSE ANY WORKER WHO DID NOT FEEL WELL COULD SPEND TWO WEEKS OUT SO THEY COULD RECOVER BEFORE SPREADING COVID TO OTHER WORKERS.

>> Bonnie: CALIFORNIA HAS A, AND I THINK SOMETHING LIKE 15 OR MORE STATES NOW HAVE STATEb PONSORED FAMILY AND -- PAID FOR MEDICALLY AND MEDICAL LEAVE.

IT'S NOT YOUR FULL SALARY.

I DON'T KNOW IF THE FEDERAL PLAN WOULD BE ABLE TO AFFORD ONE'S FULL SALARY, BUT DOES NEW YORK HAVE ANYTHING LIKE THAT TOO.

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: WE DO.

AND SO, WE JUST TESTED I THINK LAST YEAR AND IT COVERS ABOUT 50 PERCENT OF PEOPLE'S SALARY.

CALIFORNIA, SIMILARLY.

WHAT OUR FEDERAL BILL WOULD DO IS IT WILL COVER UP TO 66 PERCENT OF YOUR SALARY, WHICH IS BASICALLY A PRETAX SALARY WITH A CAP OF $4000 A MONTH.

YOU WOULD BUY INTO IT LIKE YOU BUY INTO YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY.

IT COSTS ABOUT TWO DOLLARS A WEEK FOR MOST WORKERS.

SO WHEN I TALK WITH EMPLOYERS b ¦¦ >> Bonnie: EMPLOYERS ALSO PAY INTO IT, RIGHT?

SO I SAY TO THE EMPLOYERS, YOU'RE BASICALLY BUYING A CUP OF COFFEE A WEEK FOR EACH EMPLOYEE, AND IN A YEAR TIME, IT ONLY COSTS ABOUT $104 ON AVERAGE.

SO IT'S NOT A GREAT DEAL OF MONEY THAT YOU'RE PUTTING ASIDE BUT IT WORKS AND IF ALL WORKERS DID THAT, YOU WOULD HAVE ENOUGH MONEY IN THIS FUND, JUST LIKE SOCIAL SECURITY TO PAY OUT WORKERS WHEN THEY NEED IT.

>> Bonnie: WOULD IT REALLY BE ENOUGH TO FUND SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

I MEAN, MY GOSH, PEOPLE, THEY ARE SO b ¦¦ >> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: A SMALL AMOUNT OF MONEY, IT'S 0.02 PERCENT OF YOUR SALARY.

SO IT'S NOT A LOT OF MONEY.

BUT IT'S ENOUGH THAT OVER TIME AND OVER THE WHOLE POPULATION, IT'S ENOUGH TO PAY FOR PAY LEAVE FOR PEOPLE WHEN THEY NEED TO TAKE IT WHETHER THEY'RE SICK, LOVED ONE SICK OR A FAMILY, BABY.

>> Bonnie: WHAT ABOUT YOURSELF THE FEDERAL BILL ON THIS SINCE NEW YORK AND AND NOW, YOU KNOW, KEEP THE NOTE THE NUMBER KEEPS GROWING THE NUMBER OF STATES THAT HAVE PAID FAMILY AND MEDICAL LEAVE, COULD YOU PIGGYBACK ON THE STATE EFFORT?

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: YUP.

>> Bonnie: N OTHER WORDS, IF THE STATE GOES TO 50%, BUT THE STATE PAY THAT, AND THEN THEY PAY THAT EXTRA 16%?

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU COULD DO.

AND IT WORKS.

THE NICE THING IS THERE'S A LOT OF SMALL STATES THAT COULD NEVER OFFER PAID LEAVE BECAUSE IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE, THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE TO MAKE IT, TO CREATE THE ECONOMIES OF SCALE.

SO I USED TO CAMPAIGN ON THIS ISSUE WITH PEOPLE AROUND THIS COUNTRY WHO ARE FROM SMALL STATES.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, MY COLLEAGUE, HEIDI HEITKAMP FROM NORTH DAKOTA, WE TALKED TO ALL HER SMALL BUSINESSES IN NORTH DAKOTA AND THEY SAID THEY WOULD LOVE IT BECAUSE THEY CANNOT OFFER IT, THEY CANNOT COMPETE WITH BIG STORES.UT IF THEY HAD THIS, ON THE STATE OR FEDERAL LEVEL, IT WOULD WORK.

AND SO, FOR SMALL STATES THEY REALLY NEED A FEDERAL PROGRAM BECAUSE THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO OFFER IT THEMSELVES.

>> Bonnie: AND, YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT CALIFORNIA, AND NOW YOU ADDED NEW YORK, ALREADY HAVE THESE PROGRAMS.

AGAIN, REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN BASICALLY AGAINST THEM.

AND THEY ARE THE MAJORITY IN THE SENATE, AT LEAST RIGHT NOW.

SO HOW DO YOU b ÃÃDO YOU THINK YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO CONVINCE THEM?

THEY DON'T WANT TO TAX EMPLOYERS FOR THESE KINDS OF FUNDS BECAUSE THEY REPRESENT BIG BUSINESS.

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: SO WHAT'S CHANGING IN LIGHT OF COVID-19 IS THE OPINION OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

THERE HAS BEEN A SURGE OF SUPPORT PARTICULARLY AMONG REPUBLICANS THAT THIS IS A GOOD IDEA, AN IDEA WHOSE TIME HAS COME.

SO IF THEY LISTEN TO THE ROTORS, THEN WE WILL GET THE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT THAT WE NEED.

BUT THAT'S ALWAYS AND IF.

I WILL KEEP ADVOCATING FOR IT.

I PUBLISHED A PIECE IN TIME MAGAZINE TODAY ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF IT IN LIGHT OF THIS CRISIS AND THAT HAVING THIS KIND OF SOCIAL SAFETY NET WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

AND SO HOPEFULLY PEOPLE WILL READ THAT AND THEY WILL SEE AND BE PERSUADED.

>> Bonnie: TELL ME MORE ABOUT YOUR OP-ED, WHAT YOU SAID IN THEIR.

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: SO I BASICALLY SAID AFTER GREAT MOMENTS OF HARDSHIP LIKE THE GREAT DEPRESSION COMING EVEN LIKE THE 2008 RECESSION, GOVERNMENT RESPONDS WITH REFORM.

WE DID SOCIAL SECURITY AFTER THE DEPRESSION.

WE DID DODD FRANK AFTER THE RECESSION, IN EACH ONE OF THESE BILLS IS ABOUT SOLVING PROBLEMS THAT WE NEEDED SOLVING.

THIS SOLVES THE PROBLEM.

IF WE HAVE THIS IN PLACE, WE COULD HAVE GOTTEN PEOPLE HOME QUICKER, ESPECIALLY ONCE THE SCHOOLS CLOSED, AND THEY WOULD ALREADY BE A FUND IN PLACE THAT COULD BE MONEY PUT INTO TO CONSTANTLY SEND MONEY OUT TO WORKERS.

SO THAT THEY THEY WOULD NOT LOSE THEIR JOBS, THEY WOULD NOT BE IN., THEY WOULD NOT LOSE INSURANCE.

THEY WOULD JUST BE STAYING HOME THROUGH PAID LEAVE TO REJOIN THEIR BUSINESS AS SOON AS THE PANDEMIC ALLOWED> Bonnie: HOW MUCH MORE DO YOU THINK FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO DO IN DOLLAR TERMS AND ESPECIALLY IN THE KINDS OF PROGRAMS THAT ARE NEEDED TO HELP THE COUNTRY ALONG ONCE WE CAN ALL, WHENEVER WE CAN GO BACK TO WORK AT THIS POINT, THE EXPERTS ARE SAYING LATE MAY, THE PRESIDENT IS TRYING TO PUSH IT TO EARLY MAY AND THAT'S JUST GUIDANCE.

BUT PROBABLY MOST PEOPLE WILL IGNORE THAT BECAUSE THE STATES HAVE GUIDANCE THAT PROTECTS THEIR HEALTH MORE THAN THE WHITE HOUSE SEEMS TO WANT TO DO IT AT THIS POINT.

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE PREMATURE.

I THINK WE WON'T BE READY BY EARLY MAY.

BUT WE WILL LISTEN TO THE HEALTH PROFESSIONALS.

I JUST KNOW IN THE FACT THAT SOME PARTS OF THE COUNTRY ARE JUST SEEING THE RISE IN CASES, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO PEAK AT DIFFERENT TIMES.

AND I JUST CAN IMAGINE THAT THE COUNTRY IS GOING TO BE READY IN EARLY MAY.

I THINK IT WILL TAKE LONGER THAN PEOPLE EXPECT AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO HAVE A HARSHER IMPACT THAN PEOPLE EXPECT AS WELL.

SO I THINK WE ARE IN IT FOR THE LONG HAUL, AND WE IN CONGRESS ARE GOING TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO RELIEVE THE SUFFERING OF AS MANY PEOPLE AS WE CAN.

BUT I THINK THIS MOMENT IS ABOUT HUMAN HEALTH.

I THINK WE HAVE TO PROTECT PEOPLE FIRST.

WE NEED TO RAMP UP TESTING SO WE CAN FURTHER PROTECT PEOPLE.

AND IF WE DO THAT, THEN AND ONLY THEN WILL WE BE ABLE TO OPEN UP THE ECONOMY.

SO PROTECT PEOPLE'S HEALTH IS FIRST AND FOREMOST.

>> Bonnie: BUT HOW MUCH MORE IN TERMS OF BILLIONS AND PROGRAMS DOES THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NEED, WILL IT NEED TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY AND TO HELP BRING THINGS BACK TO LIFE WHEN AND IF WE GET TO THAT POINT?

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: I THINK THERE WILL BE A COVID NUMBER FOUR, FIVE, SIX, SEVEN, PROBABLY EIGHT.

I THINK THIS IS GOING TO TAKE A VERY LONG TIME.

I THINK IT'S GOING TO TAKE PROGRAMMATIC INVESTMENTS, IT'S GOING TO TAKE TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS, AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LONG TIME.

BUT WE ARE PREPARED TO DO THAT WORK.

WILL GET THE COUNTRY BACK UP AND RUNNING AT THE RIGHT TIME AND WE WILL PROTECT THE LIVES OF OUR CITIZENS.

>> Bonnie: WHAT ABOUT THE ELECTION ITSELF IN NOVEMBER?

PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT NOT FUNDING THE POST OFFICE.

OREGON AND OTHER STATES HAVE MAIL-IN BALLOTS.

AND OF COURSE, DEMOCRATS WANT MAIL-IN BALLOTS BECAUSE IT GIVES PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE TIME TO TAKE A WORK DAY OFF OR HALF OF WORK DAY OFF, TO GO TO A POLLING PLACE TO PARTICIPATE IN ELECTIONS.

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: YEAH.

SO WE PUT ABOUT $400 MILLION IN THE LAST BILL FOR VOTING PROTECTION.

WE MAY NEED TO DO MORE.

WE WANT TO PUT MONEY IN SO THAT ALL STATES CAN HAVE NOT ONLY A BY BALLOT MECHANISM BUT ALSO MORE FLEXIBILITY.

WE WANT PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO VOTE EARLY, MAKE ELECTION DAY A DAY OFF, WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE CURBSIDE VOTING FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO GET OUT OF THEIR CAR.

IF COVID IS STILL AN ISSUE, WE NEED THOSE PROTECTIONS AND FLEXIBILITY IN PLACE SO EVERYONE CAN VOTE AND NO ONE FEELS LIKE THEY HAVE TO RISK THEIR LIFE TO VOTE EXCEPT SACRED, CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

IT'S SOMETHING ESSENTIAL TO CIVIL RIGHTS AND CIVIL LIBERTIES.

AND SO, WE SHOULD BE PUTTING MORE MONEY BEHIND OUR ELECTORAL SYSTEM IN MAKING SURE IT CAN WITHSTAND COVID AND CERTAINLY ANY OTHER ATTEMPTS BY RUSSIA OR CHINA TO BREACH OUR ELECTION.

>> Bonnie: YOU KNOW, ONE THING THAT ALWAYS AMAZES ME, AND I'VE ALWAYS WANTED TO ASK A SENATOR, WHY IS IT THAT THE REPUBLICANS DON'T HAVE TO DO VERY MUCH TO GET OUT THERE VOTE, BUT IT'S ALWAYS A HUGE ISSUE FOR DEMOCRATS TO GET THEIR VOTERS TO THE POLLS?

WHY IS THAT?

AND WILL COVID CHANGE THAT?

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: I DON'T KNOW.

I JUST KNOW THAT FOR DEMOCRATS, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE GET THE VOTE OUT.

THIS IS OUR WHEN MOMENT IN HISTORY TO SAY THAT WE DO NOT SUPPORT WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS DONE TO THIS COUNTRY.

IN THE WAY WE CAN SAY THAT IS BY ELECTING HIM OUT AND VOTING FOR JOE BIDEN.

IN TOO BY FLIPPING THE U.S. SENATE, BY PUTTING THE REINS IN THE HANDS OF SENATOR SCHUMER SO WE CAN ACTUALLY PASS THESE BIG IDEAS LIKE NATIONAL PAID LEAVE, UNIVERSAL SICK DAYS, A MASSIVE INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT BILL, AS WELL AS OTHER REFORMS THAT KEEP THE COUNTRY STABLE.

>> Bonnie: AND THERE WAS RECENTLY A WISCONSIN ELECTION WHERE WE SAW THE DEMOCRATS WERE WAY MORE MOTIVATED.

ARE REPUBLICANS WORRIED NOW THAT THE IMPACT OF THE COVID-19 VIRUS MAY BE DEMOCRATS GOING TO THE POLLS AND VOTING, THE WHITE HOUSE AND SENATE OUT OF THE CONTROL OF REPUBLICAN HANDS?

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: YOU KNOW, I THINK PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DISAPPOINTED WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP FOR A WHILE BASED ON MANY OF THE THINGS HE'S DONE.

AND SO, I DON'T THINK IT'S SPECIFIC TO COVID.

BUT I CAN TELL YOU THE FAILURES FROM THIS ADMINISTRATION ON HOW TO MANAGE THIS PANDEMIC ARE MANIFOLD.

AND THE TRUTH IS HE JUST LITERALLY REFUSES TO LEAD.

DOESN'T WANT TO USE THE DEFENSE PRODUCTION ACT EFFECTIVELY.

DOESN'T WANT TO GUARANTEE PEOPLE'S HEALTH AND SAFETY, IS ONLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE STOCK MARKET AND NOT PEOPLE'S HEALTH FIRST.

LINDA CHOSE.

AND I THINK PEOPLE, I THINK PEOPLE HAVE NOTICED THAT.

>> Bonnie: YOU THINK IT HAS GONE DOWN TO THE GRASSROOTS?

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: I DO.

>> Bonnie: PEOPLE DON'T EVEN PAY ATTENTION TO THE NEWS, YOU THINK IT'S AFFECTING THEIR LIVES?

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: I MEAN, OBVIOUS WITH THE NUMBER OF UNEMPLOYED PEOPLE.

>> Bonnie: LASTLY, WHAT ARE YOU DOING?

YOU HAVE SOMETHING GOING ON TO HELP KIDS COPE WITH RESTING, SHELTERING IN PLACE?

TELL ME ABOUT THAT, PLEASE.

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: SO FOR A LOT OF KIDS, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THEY ARE USING THEIR COMPUTERS TO DO CLASSES AND DO REMOTE LEARNING.

INTERESTINGLY ABOUT THIS GENERATION IS THEY FEEL VERY COMFORTABLE BEHIND COMPUTERS.

AND SO, BOTH MY BOYS, HENRY WHO IS 11 AND THEO WHO IS 16, ARE DOING VERY WELL ON THEIR REMOTE LEARNING.

I THINK PARENTS ARE HAVING A TOUGHER TIME BECAUSE WE DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND HOW MATH IS TAUGHT THESE DAYS.

WE DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND ALL THE THINGS THEY ARE DOING.

AND I THINK A LOT OF US ARE APPRECIATING OUR TEACHERS EVEN THAT MUCH MORE.

I THINK THERE WILL BE A MASSIVE EFFORT TO MAKE SURE TEACHERS GET RAISES, BECAUSE THE WORK THEY DO IS SO ESSENTIAL TO THE WELL-BEING OF OUR CHILDREN IN THE WELL-BEING OF PARENTS.

AND SO, I THINK THERE ARE DIFFERENT CHALLENGES EVERY HOUSEHOLD.

BUT THE KIDS SEEM TO BE DOING GREAT.

I THINK THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ARE THRIVING BECAUSE THEY LIKE TO PLAY GAMES BEHIND THE COMPUTER, THEY LIKE TO COMMUNICATE ONLINE TOGETHER.

AND SO, THEY WERE KIND OF READY FOR THIS, UNLIKE PEOPLE IN MY GENERATION.

>> Bonnie: WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH, SENATOR CHILDREN, FOR YOUR TIME.

THIS HAS BEEN EXTREMELY ENLIGHTENING.

>> Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

GOD BLESS AND STAY SAFE.

>> Bonnie: YOU TOO.

AND THAT'S IT FOR THIS EDITION OF "TO THE CONTRARY".

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CHARLES A. FRUEAUFF FOUNDATION.

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