[MUSIC] >> Bonnie: HELLO.

I AM BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO "TO THE CONTRARY".

WE CONTINUE OUR WOMEN THOUGHT LEADER DISCUSSIONS WITH, AND WE ARE HONORED TO HAVE, TINA CHEN, WHOM WE'VE INTERVIEWED BEFORE WHEN SHE WAS IN THE WHITE HOUSE WITH SO MANY TITLES, TOO MANY TO LIST, INCLUDING EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT TO FORMER FIRST LADY MICHELLE OBAMA AND HEAD OF THE WHITE HOUSE COUNCIL ON WOMEN AND GIRLS, ABOUT WHICH WE TALKED WITH YOU MANY TIMES, MISS CHEN.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

NOW OF COURSE YOU ARE RUNNING THE TIMES THAT NOW IN TIMES OF FOUNDATION GROUPS, WHICH ARE THE FOLLOW ON, IF YOU WILL ALLOW ME TO EXPLAIN TO THE VIEWERS, TO THE #METOO MOVEMENT.

PLEASE TELL ME WHAT TIMES UP IS DOING TO MAKE SURE THAT SEXISM IS NO LONGER ALLOWED ANYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES, BUT PARTICULARLY THE END OF THE SO-CALLED CASTING COUCH IN HOLLYWOOD.

>> Tina Chen: WELL, THANK YOU, BONNIE.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME AND HAVING ME ON BEFORE AND I'M DELIGHTED TO BE HERE NOW.

YOU KNOW, IT'S BEEN THREE YEARS SINCE TIMES UP WITH OUR FAMILIES LAUNCHED, YOU KNOW, ON THE GOLDEN CARP, GLOBES, RED CARPET.

WE WERE CREATED IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE HARVEY WEINSTEIN REPORTING, RIGHT THAT OCCURRED IN THE FALL OF 2017.

AND WHEN WOMEN OF HOLLYWOOD ALL OF A SUDDEN REALIZED THEY WEREN'T ALONE, BECAUSE UP UNTIL THEN, BECAUSE THAT HAD BEEN THE M.O.

OF HOW PERPETRATORS KEPT PEOPLE SILENT, IS THAT WOMEN THOUGHT THEY WERE THE ONLY ONE.

AND WITH THAT, PLUS THE # #METOO THAT TORONTO BURKE HAD LAUNCHED MANY YEARS EARLIER, THOUSANDS OF WOMEN CAME FORWARD TO TALK ABOUT THEIR OWN EXPERIENCES IN EVERY INDUSTRY ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THE WOMEN OF HOLLYWOOD CAME TOGETHER AND, TO THEIR CREDIT, THOUGHT ABOUT HOW THEY TURNED THEIR PAIN INTO ACTION, AND HOW DID THEY ACTUALLY SUPPORT WOMEN OUTSIDE OF THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY AND LOW WAGE WOMEN ACROSS THE BOARD?

SO OUR FIRST INITIATIVE WAS THE TIMES UP LEGAL DEFENSE FUND, WHICH I HELPED PUT TOGETHER, NOW HAS THE NATIONAL WOMEN'S LAW CENTER.

WE FAMOUSLY RAISED $24 MILLION ON GOFUNDME RIGHT AWAY.

100 PERCENT OF THE WENT TO THE TIMES UP LEGAL DEFENSE FUND AND WE HAVE NOW HELPED OVER 5000 INDIVIDUALS WITH LEGAL ADVICE,, PR SUPPORT, BROUGHT MAJOR CLASS ACTION AGAINST PEOPLE LIKE McDONALD'S AND THE FBI AND NUCLEAR POWER PLANT COMPANIES THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, PERPETRATING SEXUAL HARASSMENT NOT ADDRESSING IT TO THEIR EMPLOYEES.

BUT THEN WE WANT ALSO NOT JUST TO FIGHT FOR SURVIVOR JUSTICE, WHICH WE ALWAYS DO, BUT WE IMAGINE A WORLD, BONNIE, WERE SEXUAL HARASSMENT DOES NOT HAPPEN ANYMORE.

RIGHT?

WE ARE ALL ENTITLED TO BE ABLE TO GO TO WORK AND FEEL SAFE AND DIGNIFIED AND RESPECTED IN OUR WORK AND BE ABLE TO ACHIEVE EVERYTHING THAT WE CAN.

AND SO, THAT'S THE BROADER MISSION, IS TO WORK FOR A SAFE AND DIGNIFIED WORK FOR EVERYONE.

WE ARE STANDING FOR SURVIVOR JUSTICE AND TRYING TO ADDRESS THE BARRIERS THAT HAVE KEPT WOMEN AND PEOPLE OF COLOR, LGBTQ, DISABLED WORKERS FROM SUCCEEDING FOREVER, AND THAT'S REALLY UPSETTING THE POWER BALANCES BUT AS, YOU KNOW, EXISTS IN WORKPLACES IN EVERY PART OF AMERICA.

>> Bonnie: BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU MENTIONED $24 MILLION RAISED ON GOFUNDME, WHICH IS A HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY, BUT GIVEN THE AMOUNT OF GENDER BIAS, SEX DISCRIMINATION THAT THERE IS IN THIS COUNTRY, NOT TO MENTION RACE DISCRIMINATION, THAT'S NOT A LOT OF MONEY TO FIGHT ALL THE LEGAL BATTLES THAT YOU AND I KNOW ARE GOING TO NEED TO BE FOUGHT BEFORE THIS IS OVER.

SO DO YOU HAVE CONTINUING FUNDRAISING EFFORTS?

ARE THERE MEMBERS OF, YOU KNOW, THE BEST-KNOWN WOMEN IN HOLLYWOOD, NOT JUST ACTORS NOW, BUT ALSO DIRECTORS WHO ARE SUPPORTING THIS PROJECT?> Tina Chen: NO.

WELL, ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, WE HAVE HAD ON CONTRIBUTING TO THE LEGAL DEFENSE FUND AND CONTRIBUTING TO THE ADVOCACY AND RESEARCH WORK THAT WE DO AT TIMES OF FOUNDATION TIME'S UP NOW, YOU KNOW, SO YOU KNOW, FOLKS LIKE KATIE McGRATH A BIT BAD ROBOT AND SHONDA RHIMES FROM SHONDA LYNN.

AND REESE WITHERSPOON AND KERRY WASHINGTON, YOU KNOW, WE BRIE LARSON, WE'VE REALLY BEEN FORTUNATE TO HAVE ONGOING CONTINUED SUPPORT AND THE LEADERSHIP FROM THESE WOMEN, JOURNEY SMOLLETT AND NATALIE PORTMAN, ASHLEY JUDD, WHO WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO SPEAK OUT ABOUT HARVEY, YOU KNOW, PUBLICLY, AND REALLY BUT HER NAME AND HER REPUTATION ON THE LINE AND REALLY EMPOWERED SO MANY OTHER WOMEN TO SPEAK OUT.

SO, YOU KNOW, THAT, I'VE BEEN REALLY PROUD OF THAT WE HAVE -- YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE CONTINUED WITH IT FOR THREE YEARS AND CONTINUE TO DO THE WORK AND CONTINUE TO HELP US REACH OUT TO WOMEN IN HEALTHCARE, WOMEN IN ADVERTISING, YOU KNOW, WOMEN IN THE TECH INDUSTRIES, LOW WAGE WOMEN WHO HAVE BEEN FORGING PARTNERSHIPS AS WE HAVE FROM DAY ONE WITH FARMWORKER WOMEN IN THE RESTAURANT WORKERS AND DOMESTIC WORKERS, BECAUSE WE KNOW THESE ARE BATTLES, YOU KNOW, THAT ARE SHARED WITH WOMEN UP AND DOWN THE WAGE SCALE AND ACROSS INDUSTRIES.

>> Bonnie: RIGHT, OF COURSE.

AND THE LOWER RANGE -- WAGE WOMEN OF COURSE ARE NEVER GOING TO GET THE PUBLICITY, NOR FOR THAT MATTER, THE PUBLIC SUPPORT THAT THEY NEED TO OVERCOME SEXISM.

IN OTHER WORDS, THE BIG NAME HOLLYWOOD DIRECTOR OR PRODUCER OR ACTOR IS SEXUALLY DISCRIMINATED AGAINST, SHE HAS THE MOUTHPIECE OF HER FAME WHEREAS A LOW-WAGE, YOU KNOW, THE WOMEN, FOR EXAMPLE, WORKING IN LOUISIANA IN A RESTAURANT FOR SUBMINIMUM WAGE WHO IS SUPPOSED TO SUBSIST ON TIPS GOVERNED BY A BOSS WHO IS -- WHO IS DEMANDING SEXUAL FAVORS IS NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET THE PUBLICITY, THE SUPPORT THAT SHE NEEDS.

SO TELL ME EXACTLY -- HE MENTIONED IT, BUT TELL THE AUDIENCE WHAT EXACTLY IT IS YOU ARE DOING FOR THESE WOMEN.

>> Tina Chen: WELL, IT'S A NUMBER OF THINGS: FIRST OF ALL, IF ANYONE WHO IS WATCHING, YOU KNOW, KNOWS SOMEONE OR THEY THEMSELVES, YOU KNOW, ARE EXPERIENCING SEXUAL HARASSMENT, THEN YOU THROUGH OUR WEBSITE AT TIME'S UP NOW.ORG OR AT THE NATIONAL WOMEN'S LAW CENTER, YOU KNOW, WEBSITE AT WLC.ORG, YOU CAN GO AND FIND THE TIMES UP LEGAL DEFENSE FUND AND GET HELP.

HERE'S A PLACE TO GET HELP.

TWO THIRDS OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE RECEIVED ASSISTANCE OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS, FROM THE TYPES OF LEGAL DEFENSE FUND IDENTIFY THEMSELVES AS LOW WAGE WORKERS, WHICH I'M REALLY PROUD OF, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT WE WANTED TO DO WAS TO PROVIDE, AS YOU SAY, RESOURCES, FOR THOSE WHO DON'T HAVE ANOTHER PLACE TO GET HELP.

SO THAT'S ONE AVENUE.

THE OTHER AVENUES, BONNIE, IS TO WORK ON THE STRUCTURAL BARRIERS THAT CONTINUE TO, YOU KNOW, KEEP WOMEN IN THE POSITION WHERE THEY ARE GOING TO BE SEXUALLY HARASSED, LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, WE ARE PARTNERING AND WORKING WITH ONE FAIR WAGE TO FIGHT FOR THE $15 MINIMUM WAGE AND THE ELIMINATION OF THE SUBMINIMUM WAGE FOR RESTAURANT WORKERS.

WE JUST RELEASED A STUDY AT THE END OF THE YEAR OF 2020, YOU KNOW, THAT TOGETHER WITH ONE FAIR WAGE THAT SHOWED DURING THE PANDEMIC, YOU KNOW, RESTAURANT WORKERS HAVE SEEN AN INCREASE IN SEXUAL HARASSMENT.

40 PERCENT OF THEM REPORT, YOU KNOW, SEXUAL HARASSMENT HAS INCREASED.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO ARE SAYING TO THEM, TAKE HER MASS DOWN SO I CAN SEE WHAT YOU LOOK LIKE SO I KNOW HOW MUCH TO YOU, RIGHT, OR TAKE -- EVEN MORE VULGARLY, TAKE YOUR MASS DOWN SO I CAN STICK MY TONGUE IN YOUR MOUTH BECAUSE I WANT TO DO THAT AND BECAUSE YOU NEED TO GET A TIP FROM ME.

THAT'S WHAT RESTAURANT WORKERS AND TIPPED WORKERS ARE SUBJECTED TO.

YOU KNOW, IT'S THE STRUCTURAL, YOU KNOW, WHY WORK IS ORGANIZED THAT PERPETUATES THE SEXUAL HARASSMENT.

SO WE NEED TO BREAK DOWN THOSE KINDS OF BARRIERS.

THE CURRENT ISSUE THAT WE AND SO MANY ACROSS WOMEN'S MOVEMENT ARE FOCUSED ON RIGHT NOW, BONNIE, IS CAREGIVING, BECAUSE THE PANDEMIC HAS REVEALED THAT WHAT MANY OF US HAVE KNOWN FOR A LONG TIME, THAT WE HAVE A CAREGIVING CRISIS IN THIS COUNTRY.

YOU KNOW, WE DON'T SUPPORT CAREGIVING.

WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PUBLIC ACCESS TO AFFORDABLE CHILDCARE AND ELDERLY CARE, WE DON'T HAVE PAID LEAVE OR WERE THE ONLY OECD COUNTRY WHERE ONE OF ONLY TWO IN THE WORLD THAT DOESN'T HAVE ANY FORM OF NATIONAL PAID LEAVE POLICY.

YOU CANNOT EVEN STAY HOME WHEN YOU ARE SICK OR WHEN A LOVED 16, AND THAT MEANS THAT WORKERS ARE EXCLUDED FROM, YOU KNOW, WOMEN WORKERS IN PARTICULAR EXCLUDED FROM THE LABOR MARKET.

WE KNOW THAT 2 MILLION WOMEN HAVE LEFT THE LABOR FORCE IN THE LAST 12 MONTHS BECAUSE OF COVID.

WOMEN'S LABOR FORCE PARTICIPATION IS AT THE LOWEST LEVEL IT'S BEEN SINCE THE 1980'S.

SO WE ARE LOSING GROUND IN THIS PANDEMIC AT EXTRAORDINARY RATES.

BLACK AND BROWN WOMEN IN PARTICULAR HAVE REALLY FELT THE IMPACT.

WE DID A SURVEY IN THE SUMMER AND IT SHOWED THAT LATIN X WOMEN TELL US THEY HAD LESS THAN $250 IN THEIR BANK ACCOUNTS AND THEY WERE STAYING UP AT NIGHT AND NOT BEING ABLE TO SLEEP BECAUSE THEY DID NOT KNOW HOW TO CARE FOR THEIR FAMILIES.

THAT WAS SIX MONTHS AGO.

WE HAVE CONTINUED TO HAVE SIX MONTHS OF THIS PANDEMIC AND ECONOMIC CRISIS FACING US.

WE STARTED SOMETHING CALLED AN IMPACT LAB TO DO THIS WORK, RIGHT, TO DO THE DATA COLLECTION, THE RESEARCH ON WHAT IS OTHERWISE INVISIBLE, RIGHT, BECAUSE IN THE BROADER DATA, THE ECONOMIC DATA THAT YOU SEE REPORTED, BLACK AND BROWN WOMEN DO NOT SHOW UP, RIGHT?

KIND OF METRICS THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS NOT REVEALED TO POLICYMAKERS AND TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC AND TO EMPLOYERS.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, ONE OF OUR MISSIONS IS TO DO THAT KIND OF RESEARCH, TO SORT OF MAKE IT AVAILABLE BROADLY TO THE PUBLIC, TO POLICYMAKERS, TO VOTERS, RIGHT, SO THAT THEY CAN VOTE THEIR ISSUES AND SEE THEM.

ONE OF OUR STUDIES THAT WE JUST ALSO RELEASED AT THE END OF THE YEAR, FOR EXAMPLE, ON CAREGIVING SHOWS, BONNIE, IT'S A BROADLY BIPARTISAN ISSUE.

RIGHT?

SO 9/10 DEMOCRATS SUPPORT A BROAD HOLISTIC CAREGIVING SOLUTION, BUT ALSO 8/10 REPUBLICANS SUPPORT IT.

YOU KNOW, I'M REALLY GRATEFUL TO SEE THE BIDEN-HARRIS ADMINISTRATION, EVEN BEFORE HE WAS INAUGURATED, YOU KNOW, PRESIDENT BIDEN ANNOUNCED, YOU KNOW, IN HIS ROCKIES PACKAGE, SUBSTANTIAL INCREASES FOR CAREGIVING AND HIS SUPPORT SAYING THAT CAREGIVING IS AN IMPORTANT INVESTMENT TO MAKE THE ECONOMY RECOVER, RIGHT?

YOU MAKE GOOD PAYING JOBS FOR CAREGIVERS, THEY WILL SPEND THE MONEY TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY AND DO A JOB THAT LETS SOMEONE ELSE GO TO WORK AND STIMULATE THE ECONOMY.

BUT WE NEED CONGRESS TO ACT ON IT AND IT WILL BE BIPARTISAN.

THERE VOTERS IN THE DISTRICT WILL SUPPORT THESE SOLUTIONS.

>> Bonnie: WHAT KIND OF IMPACT DID THE FOUR YEARS OF PRESIDENT TRUMP HAVE ON WOMEN'S ADVANCEMENT?

>> Tina Chen: BONNIE, ONE OF THE THINGS THEY DID WAS ROLLBACK SO MANY OF THE ADVANCEMENTS WE HAD MADE DURING THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO SUPPORT WOMEN WORKERS.

FOR EXAMPLE, THEY ROLLBACK SEVERAL ROLES IN EXECUTIVE ORDERS WE MADE AROUND EQUAL PAY TO TRY TO MAKE PAY MORE TRANSPARENT.

YOU KNOW, TO MAKE SURE THAT COMPANIES WERE BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE -- TO ACCOUNT ON EQUAL PAY.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE'VE NOT SEEN ANY MOVEMENT UPWARDS, RIGHT.

THERE'S BEEN NO LESSENING OF THE GAP, THE WAGE GAP THAT WE KNOW EXISTS, YOU KNOW, BETWEEN WOMEN'S PAY AND MEN'S PAY, AND IT'S WORSE FOR WOMEN OF COLOR.

THEY ROLLBACK PROTECTIONS FOR FEDERAL WORKERS ON REPORTING SEXUAL HARASSMENT.

TODAY, YOU KNOW, ELIMINATED -- THE WHITE HOUSE COUNCIL WOMEN AND GIRLS, KIND OF AS WE, YOU KNOW, WE DID, MYSELF AS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AND VALERIE JARRETT, AS CHAIR REALLY SORT OF PAID ATTENTION TO THESE ISSUES.

>> Bonnie: YOU ARE DOING SUCH THINGS AS MAKING SURE THAT ALL FEDERAL CONTRACTORS WERE PAYING MEN AND WOMEN EQUAL WAGES.

TELL ME SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS YOU WERE DOING THAT WERE ROLLBACK.

>> Tina Chen: WE ARE REQUIRED FEDERAL CONTRACTORS TO PROVIDE FIVE DAYS OF PAID SICK LEAVE TO ALL OF THEIR WORKERS, RIGHT?

AND -- AND CONTINUED TO ALL OF THOSE -- WE REQUIRE THEM TO KEEP THE DATA AND MAKE DATA TRANSPARENT AROUND WHAT THEY WERE DOING BOTH ON, YOU KNOW, WHO THEY WERE HIRING AND ALSO WAGES.

ALL OF THAT WAS ROLLBACK.

RIGHT?

ALL OF THOSE INITIATIVES THAT WE DID WERE ROLLBACK.

YOU KNOW, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, AS YOU SAY, IS THE LARGEST PURCHASER OF GOODS AND SERVICES I THINK IN THE WORLD, RIGHT?

IT IS ALSO THE LARGEST EMPLOYER IN THE WORLD.

AND WE SET OUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE COULD NOT HAS A LOT OF THESE INITIATIVES THROUGH CONGRESS, RIGHT, OR ALL THAT WE LOST CONGRESS AND COULDN'T GET BASIC THINGS LIKE PAYCHECK FAIRNESS OR PAID LEAVE THROUGH THE REPUBLICAN-CONTROLLED CONGRESS, WE USED WHAT WE COULD AS THE EMPLOYER TO SET UP MODEL EMPLOYMENT STANDARDS AS BEST WE COULD.

AND AS A PURCHASER OF GOODS AND SERVICES TO MAKE SURE THE COMPANIES, WE WERE USING TAXPAYER DOLLARS, RIGHT, TO BUY GOODS AND SERVICES FOR WERE ACTUALLY DOING THE BEST BY THEIR WORKERS THAT WE COULD.

THAT HAS ALL BEEN ROLLBACK.

BUT I'M REALLY PLEASED TO SEE, AGAIN, THE BIDEN-HARRIS ADMINISTRATION.

I THINK IT'S GOING TO REVERSE COURSE!

I WAS REALLY EXCITED TO SEE THE DAY BEFORE HE WAS INAUGURATED, PRESIDENT BIDEN, YOU KNOW, ISSUED, YOU KNOW, THE ANNOUNCEMENT THAT THEY HAVE CREATED THE WHITE HOUSE GENDER POLICY COUNCIL.

IT IS, AGAIN, FASHIONED AS A COUNCIL OF THE ENTIRE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SO THAT ALL THE FEDERAL AGENCIES AND THE CABINET MEMBERS AND THE WHITE HOUSE POLICY OFFICES WILL BE PART OF THE GENDER POLICY COUNCIL.

AND THEY WILL BE ABLE, THEN, TO DRIVE POLICY INTO THE DOMESTIC FRONT WITH SUSAN RICE IN THE DOMESTIC POLICY COUNCIL, ON THE ECONOMIC FRONT WITH BRIAN DEESE ON THE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL, AND GLOBALLY AS WELL WITH DOING THINGS LIKE COMBATING GENDER BASED VIOLENCE AROUND THE WORLD, AND PROMOTING ADOLESCENT GIRLS EDUCATION WITH JAKE SULLIVAN AT THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL, AND JULISSA AND JEN WILL BE EQUALS TO THEM IN PUSHING THOSE ISSUES, PUSHING THE AGENCIES TO DO EVERYTHING THEY CAN WITHIN EACH AGENCY, MAKING SURE OUR COVID RESPONSE, FOR EXAMPLE, PAYS ATTENTION TO GENDER ISSUES, YOU KNOW, AND THE NEEDS OF BLACK AND BROWN WOMEN WHO ARE OVERWHELMINGLY OUR FRONTLINE WORKERS.

AND REALLY MAKING SURE THAT THE INTERSECTION ANALOGY OF GENDER, OF RACE, OF POVERTY AND ECONOMY, ALL OF THOSE INTERSECTIONAL ISSUES ARE ADDRESSED WITH A FOCUS ON GENDER.

>> Bonnie: WHAT IS A WAY TO PREVENT WHAT HAPPENED DURING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TO INITIATIVES SUCH AS YOURS STARTED DURING THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION FROM BEING CUT BACK AGAIN?

HOW LONG IS THIS BOUNCING BALL OF PROGRESS FOR WOMEN, THEN PROGRESS BEING ROLLBACK AND PROGRESS BEING ROLLBACK?

HOW LONG DO YOU SEE BEFORE IT'S JUST A STEADY MARCH TOWARDS THE FUTURE?

>> Tina Chen: WELL, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS WE NEEDS TO HAPPEN IS WE NEED CONGRESSIONAL ACTION.

RIGHT?

TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, HOW DO YOU KEEP THINGS FROM GETTING ROLLBACK FROM ONE ADMINISTRATION TO ANOTHER, IT IS BY ENSHRINING THOSE THINGS INTO LAW.

SO ONE OF THOSE THINGS I DO HOPE WE WILL SEE IN THE NEW CONGRESS IS THINGS LIKE EQUAL PAY, YOU KNOW, THE PAYCHECK FAIRNESS ACT GETTING PAST AND SEXUAL HARASSMENT PROTECTIONS, THE BE HEARD ACT.

THERE ARE SEVERAL BILLS THAT PASSED THE DEMOCRATIC HOUSE IN THE LAST CONGRESS THAT, YOU KNOW, MITCH McCONNELL SORT OF WANT TO DIE ON HIS DESK THAT, YOU KNOW, NOW UNDER SENATE LEADERSHIP OR, MORE OPTIMISTIC COULD MOVE FORWARD.

>> Bonnie: RIGHT.

LET ME INTERRUPT YOU JUST FOR A SECOND AND WILL GET BACK TO THE MOVING FORWARD, BUT AS YOU KNOW, AS EVERY AMERICAN WHO FOLLOWS POLITICS KNOWS, THERE IS AN EQUAL SPLIT IN THE SENATE.

IS NOT -- NANCY PELOSI LOST DEMOCRATIC HOUSE SEATS IN THIS PAST ELECTION.

SO THERE'S NOT -- THE DEMOCRATS -- THEY HAVE LESS CLOUT IN THE HOUSE THAN THEY DID BEFORE THE LAST ELECTION AND NOT EVEN A TRUE MAJORITY VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS WILL BE BREAKING THE TIES IN THE SENATE.

SO WHEN THINGS ARE SO PRECARIOUSLY CLOSE, IS THAT A GOOD TIME TO TRY -- OR PROPITIOUS TIME, WHEN MIGHT ASK, FOR THE ADMINISTRATION TO TRY FOR THINGS THAT COULD NOT EVEN GET PAST IN THE LAST CONGRESS OR TWO?

>> Tina Chen: WELL, I DO THINK IT IS.

HERE'S THE REASON WHY: THERE ARE COUPLE REASONS WHY.

YOU KNOW, NUMBER ONE, YOU KNOW, THESE ISSUES ARE ACTUALLY BIPARTISAN.

WHEN WE GET PAST THE PERSONALITIES OF OUR POLITICS AND WE GET TO THE ACTUAL ISSUES, YOU FIND HUGE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT.

SO THE STATE OF FLORIDA IS A GOOD EXAMPLE.

SO FLORIDA WENT FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP.

THEY ALSO PASSED IN FLORIDA -- THE VOTERS IN FLORIDA BY, YOU KNOW, THREE QUARTERS, NEAR 70 PERCENT OF THE VOTERS VOTED FOR INCREASING THE MINIMUM WAGE.

RIGHT?

IN UTAH, ANOTHER STATE THAT WENT FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP IN NOVEMBER, PASSED A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT AND ELIMINATED GENDER DISTINCTIONS IN THEIR CONSTITUTION, YOU KNOW, IN THEIR LANGUAGE AND IN THEIR STATE LAWS.

SO I STATED EARLIER, OUR CAREGIVING SURVEY JUST RELEASED IN DECEMBER, THAT SHOWS THAT 8/10 REPUBLICANS, OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS SUPPORT CAREGIVING SOLUTIONS BECAUSE HERE'S THE THING ABOUT THE PANDEMIC, AND THAT IS THE SECOND REASON I THINK NOW IS THE TIME: YOU KNOW, AS TRAGIC AND HORRIBLE AS THIS MOMENT HAS BEEN, IT HAS UNIVERSALLY HIT EVERYONE.

UP AND DOWN THE WAGE SCALE, RED STATES AND BLUE STATES.

PEOPLE IN OUR EXPERIENCING WHAT THOSE OF US WHO ARE ADVOCATES HAVE KNOWN FOR MANY YEARS, RIGHT, ABOUT THE INEQUITIES IN PAID LEAVE, ABOUT THE INEQUITIES AND NOT HAVING SICK LEAVE, AND ABOUT THE INEQUITIES AND NOT HAVING ACCESS TO CHILDCARE OR ELDERCARE, ABOUT THE RISKS TO OUR ELDERLY IN CONGREGANT LONG-TERM CARE WHEN THEY COULD BE CARED FOR AT HOME, IF WE ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES.

AGAIN, THAT'S NOT A RED AND BLUE ISSUE.

SO IF WE CAN GET PAST THE PERSONALITIES AND THE LABELS AND TALK ABOUT THE ISSUES AND GET THOSE IN FRONT OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE'S SO THEY UNDERSTAND, I AM OPTIMISTIC THAT THIS IS A MOMENT WHERE PEOPLE CAN SEE COMPANIES.

HERE'S THE OTHER THING, BONNIE: I MEAN, COMPANIES THEMSELVES ARE USUALLY OPPOSED TO THOSE KINDS OF ISSUES ARE NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE SEEING IT.

YOU KNOW, HALF OF MANUFACTURING COMPANIES TOLD THE WALL STREET JOURNAL THIS SUMMER THAT THEY COULD NOT GET ENOUGH PEOPLE ONTO THEIR MANUFACTURING FLOOR BECAUSE THE WORKERS HAD CAREGIVING RESPONSIBILITIES AT HOME.

THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIX IT.

THEY NEED THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO HELP THEM FIX IT.

SO YOU SEE, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAS -- I'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE IN THE MANY DECADES OF BEEN DOING THIS WORK, YOU KNOW, EMPLOYERS WERE SUPPORTING THESE KINDS OF INITIATIVES AS WELL AS EMPLOYEES.

AND A REAL OPPORTUNITY I THINK TO MAKE TRANSFORMATIONAL CHANGE IN HOW WE ORGANIZE OUR WORK.

IF YOU WANT TO BE A COMPANY THAT WILL SUCCEED, WILL BE SURVIVING THE NEXT CRISIS THAT COMES, THAT IS TRULY ADDRESSING THINGS LIKE RACIAL JUSTICE, AS WE SAW IN THE SUMMER, AND GENDER EQUALITY AND TAPS INTO THE BEST TALENT OUT THERE, YOU KNOW, THEN YOU ARE GOING TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES AND REALLY DO IT AT THE CORE, IN A WAY THAT MAKES IT DIFFERENT.

BECAUSE YOUR POTENTIAL EMPLOYEES, YOUR POTENTIAL CONSUMERS ARE PAYING ATTENTION.

AND THAT REALLY IS, YOU KNOW, -- THE COMPANIES THAT DO THIS RIGHT, I TELL MY BUSINESS AUDIENCE A LOT ARE THE ONES THAT ARE GOING TO SURVIVE AND BE STILL BE AROUND 10 YEARS FROM NOW.

AND THOSE THAT DON'T, ARE NOT GOING TO BE AROUND.

>> Bonnie: WELL, AND THEY ARE ALSO NOT DOING IT TO -- JUST TO BE GOOD CORPORATE CITIZENS, THEY ARE DOING IT BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT HELPS MAKE THEM -- YOU KNOW, IT HELPS THEM BECOME BIGGER SELLERS, THEIR PRODUCTS ARE MORE POPULAR.

>> Tina Chen: WELL, ABSOLUTELY.

ABSOLUTELYE SAW IT FROM THE START OF TIME'S UP.

LOOK, LOOK, IF YOU AREN'T ADDRESSING SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN YOUR WORKPLACE, THEN, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT THE WEINSTEIN COMPANIES THAT WENT BANKRUPT, LOOK AT THE CRISIS THAT CBS WENT THROUGH, YOU KNOW, WHEN ITS CEO, YOU KNOW, HAVE TO RESIGN, YOU KNOW, GO GO DOWN THE LIST OF FOLKS, YOU KNOW, WE JUST SAW AN ANNOUNCEMENT FROM APOLLO, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT IS, YOU KNOW, COMPANIES, YOU KNOW, NOW BOTH OF ENTERPRISE RISK IF THEY DON'T ADDRESS IT AS WELL AS THE POTENTIAL UPSIDE ON MAKING SURE YOU'RE GETTING THE BEST TALENT AND LEADERSHIP.

>> Bonnie: A YEAR AGO LAST FALL, SO FALL OF 2019, WAS REALLY WHEN THE #METOO MOVEMENT AND WHEN TIMES UP WAS FORMED OR THEREABOUTS WAS REALLY BIG-TIME IN THE NEWS.

AND FOR VERY GOOD REASON, THE PANDEMIC, ALTHOUGH VERY ABNORMAL ACTIONS TAKEN BY PRESIDENT TRUMP, WHOM SOME HAVE CALLED HIM -- SOME HISTORIANS HAVE CALLED THE WORST PRESIDENT IN AMERICAN HISTORY, OF COURSE ALL THOSE NEWS FACTORS WERE GOING AGAINST WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

BUT WE REALLY HAVE NOT HEARD MUCH ABOUT #METOO AND TIME'S UP.

ARE WE GOING TO?

>> Tina Chen: WE ARE NOT LOSING PUBLIC SUPPORT.

YOU KNOW, WE ARE SEEING THINGS LIKE TWO THIRDS OF EVEN MEN HAVE SAID THAT THE TIME'S UP AND #METOO MOVEMENT HAVE MADE THEM THINK ABOUT THEIR RELATIONSHIPS DIFFERENTLY, ABOUT WITH WOMEN.

WE'VE BEEN VERY ACTIVE AT THE TIME'S UP LEGAL DEFENSE LINE, FOR EXAMPLE, IS SUPPORTING THE EMPLOYEES OF THE WASHINGTON FOOTBALL TEAM THAT WAS -- IN THEIR LITIGATION, YOU KNOW, AGAINST DAN SNYDER AND THE OWNER OF THE WASHINGTON FOOTBALL TEAM AND THE INVESTIGATION AT THE NFL IS GOING UNDER, WE'VE BEEN CALLING ON THE NFL TO ACTUALLY EXAMINE THAT CLOSELY.

YOU KNOW, SO WE'VE BEEN CONTINUING TO DO WORK LIKE THAT, CONTINUING TO SPEAK OUT ON MAJOR ISSUES.

WE HAD A HUGE MOMENT ACTUALLY DURING THE ELECTION.

OUR TIME'S UP NOW 501(C) FOUR ARM, WE LAUNCHED A CAMPAIGN CALLED WE HAVE HER BACK DURING THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN.

YOU KNOW, THAT WAS REALLY CALLING OUT SEXISM AND MISOGYNY AND RACISM IN THE REPORTING AROUND NOT JUST, YOU KNOW, THEN VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE KAMALA HARRIS BUT OTHER WOMEN RUNNING FOR OFFICE.

YOU KNOW, WE GOT BILLIONS OF IMPRESSIONS, MADE A HUGE IMPACT I THINK ON WOMEN CALLING OUT THE EXPERIENCES THAT THEY PRESENTLY HAD AS WELL AS HAVING THE BACK OF WOMEN WHO ARE LEADERS OUT THERE.

THE REASON WE DID IT, BONNIE, IS BECAUSE WE HAVE THAT KIND OF DISCOURSE AGAINST SOMEONE LIKE KAMALA HARRIS, AND THEN THAT INFLUENCES HOW EVERYONE THINKS ABOUT WOMEN LEADERS, RIGHT?

IT INFLUENCES HOW A RESTAURANT OWNER THINKS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE REST -- THE SERVER WHO WANTS TO BE MANAGING THE RESTAURANT.

IF HE SEES, YOU KNOW, WOMEN LEADERS GETTING TORN DOWN IN THE PRESS AND IN THE ELECTORAL COVERAGE, THAT'S GOING TO INFLUENCE HOW THEY THINK ABOUT THAT WOMAN WHO WORKS FOR THEM.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE ARE COMBATING THAT AND HAD A HUGE IMPACT THIS LAST FALL.

SO WE ARE OUT THERE.

YOU KNOW, WE ARE OUT THERE STRONG AND ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO THIS WORK.

BUT IT'S A LONG ROAD.

LOOK, WE ARE FIGHTING AGAINST GENDER NORMS, BONNIE, AS YOU KNOW, HAVE EXISTED WELL BEYOND -- BEFORE THE LAST ADMINISTRATION.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT NORMS THAT HAVE BEEN WITH US FOR MILLENNIA, RIGHT?

THEY HAVE TRANSCENDED TIME AND RACE AND CLASS AND RELIGION ANGIOGRAPHY, RIGHT.

IS EVERYWHERE.

IS LITERALLY BIBLICAL BECAUSE IT'S IN THE BIBLE.

I MEAN, THOSE ARE THE KIND OF NORMS THAT WE ARE REALLY TRYING TO CHANGE.

SO THIS IS A LONG JOURNEY, BUT WE ARE IN IT.

>> Bonnie: THANK YOU SO MUCH, TINA CHEN, HEAD OF THE TIME'S UP NOW AND TIME'S UP FOUNDATION AND PUSHING HARD TO ADVANCE THE RIGHTS OF WOMEN AND GIRLS AND PEOPLE OF COLOR, BOTH INSIDE GOVERNMENT AND OUTSIDE OF IT.

WE THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

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