THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY.•• FIRST, DO GUNS MAKE WOMEN SAFER?

THEN, GOP HOUSE MEMBERS WHO ARE ANTI-ABORTION IN PUBLIC BUT PRO-CHOICE IN PRIVATE.

BEHIND THE HEADLINES: IMAGINING A WORLD WHERE MEN AND WOMEN ARE EQUAL.

HELLO, I'M BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY, A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST, WOMEN AND GUNS.

THE DEADLIEST MASS SHOOTING IN US HISTORY, HAS FORCED A MOURNING NATION TO ONCE AGAIN DEBATE GUN CONTROL.

THE COUNTRY IS MORE DIVIDED THAN EVER.

POLLS SHOW REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS ARE MORE SPLIT ON GUN CONTROL THAN JUST ABOUT ANY OTHER ISSUE.

THE NRA HAS MADE A TARGETED PITCH TO WOMEN FOR DECADES, CLAIMING GUNS HELP WOMEN PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM PREDATORS.

BUT A NEW STUDY SHOWS WOMEN ARE 100 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE KILLED BY A MAN WITH A GUN THAN TO USE THE GUN IN SELF-DEFENSE.

ACCORDING TO THE FBI, 16 JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDES IN 2015 INVOLVED A WOMAN DEFENDING HERSELF AGAINST A MAN.

BY CONTRAST, MORE THAN 1,600 WOMEN WERE KILLED BY A MAN WITH A FIREARM.

MORE THAN 90% (93%) OF THESE MURDERS WERE COMMITTED BY SOMEONE THE VICTIM KNEW, AND IN MOST (64%) OF THESE CASES, THE MURDERER WAS A HUSBAND OR PARTNER.

SOING DELEGATE NORTON DOES OWNING A GUN MAKE A WOMAN ASAFER?

>> NO, BONNIE.

A WOMAN IN THE COMPANY OF A PREDATOR NEEDS TO GET OUT, NOT ENGAGE IN A SHOOTOUT.

>> I THINK IT MAKES A WOMAN FEEL EMPOWERED ESPECIALLY IF SHE KNOWS HOW TO USE IT AND THE RIGHT SITUATIONS TO USE IT IN.

>> THE STATISTICS SHOW SHE IS NOT SAFER.

HOWEVER I DO THINK WOMEN FEEL SAFER EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOT TRUE.

>> I THINK WOMEN HAVE A RIGHT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES BUT WE ARE TO THE POINT WHERE WE HAVE TO SAY DOES A WOMAN OR A MAN HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE 42 WEAPONS AND HIGH POWERED WEAPONS THAT WILL SLAUGHTER POLICEMEN?

THERE HAS TO BE A LINE DRAWN.

>> SPECIFICALLY, THE WOMEN'S OPINIONS ON THIS ISSUE ARE WOMEN ARE NOT AS PRO GUN AS MEN ARE.

GENERALLY SPEAKING.

>> THEY ARE NOT.

BUT I THINK YOU ARE STARTING TO SEE WOMEN PARTICULARLY WOMEN OF COLOR BLACK WOMEN ARE STARTING TO JOIN GUN CLUBS AND SIGN UP FOR LESSONS HOW TO SHOOT A GUN BECAUSE THEY WANT TO FEEL SAFE FROM PERPETRATORS AND BECAUSE OF SOME OF THE CIVIL UNREST DUE AROUND RACE THAT HAS COME UP OVER THE PAST YEAR.

SO I THINK YOU ARE STARTING TO SEE WOMEN MOVE TOWARDS IT.

>> BONNIE, FIRST OF ALL, LET'S UNDERSTAND THE CONTEXT HERE: NEITHER WOMEN NOR MEN FIND THEMSELVES SAFER AGAINST SOMEBODY COMING AT THEM WITH A GUN.

THE STATISTICS ARE OVERWHELMING.

TO SAY THAT TO SOMEBODY WHO WANTS TO PROTECT THEMSELVES MAY LEAD THEM TO ASK WHAT SHOULD WE DO?

AND THAT IS WHAT WE SHOULD BE ENGAGED IN.

NOT SAYING TO BLACK WOMEN, WHITE WOMEN, WHITE MEN OR ANYBODY ELSE BECAUSE THIS IS ALL THE SAME THING.

IF YOU JUST HAVE YOURSELF A GUN IN A SHOOTOUT, PARTICULARLY SINCE MEN ARE FAR MORE PRACTICED THOSE WHO CARRY GUNS, WITH GUNS, THEN THOSE WHO DON'T CARRY GUNS, TO LEAVE THEM WITH THE FALSE ASSURANCE THAT THEY CAN SOMEHOW WIN THEIR SAFETY BY JUST ARMING THEMSELVES.

>> I'M CONFUSED.

I'VE BEEN FOLLOWED DOWN THE STREET WHEN I WAS A KID.

I'VE BEEN YOU KNOW, IN SITUATIONS WHERE I WAS A LITTLE NERVOUS ALTHOUGH I GREW UP IN MANHATTAN AND I WAS TAUGHT TO WALK LIKE YOU ARE DOING BUSINESS AND I DID.

YOU KNOW THAT SCARED PEOPLE OFF, I GUESS.

I DON'T KNOW.

BUT HOW DO YOU PULL A WEAPON OUT OF YOUR PURSE AND AIM IT AT SOMEBODY AND BE READY TO KILL THEM, BY THE WAY, BECAUSE MOST LIKELY THEY WILL LUNGE AT YOU AND GRAB IT AND USE IT AGAINST YOU?

>> PEOPLE WOULD MAKE THE ARGUMENT ARE ASSUMING A HIGH DEGREE OF PROFICIENCY AND REACTION TIME AND THAT IS PROBABLY NOT RELEVANT IN MOST CASES.

I THINK WOMEN SHOULD BE EMPOWERED.

I THINK FIRST OF ALL WE SHOULD HAVE BETTER PUBLIC SAFETY IN OUR CITIES AND RURAL AREAS.

I THINK WOMEN SHOULD ABSOLUTELY HAVE SELF-DEFENSE AND TO LEARN TO WALK AND HAVE A PRESENCE THAT WOULD DETER PERHAPS NUISANCE PEOPLE.

>> WHAT ABOUT LEARNING KARATE?

>> RIGHT.

SELF-DEFENSE IS ALWAYS GOOD THE BUT I THINK IF YOU ARE GOING TO PUT THE ONUS ON THE WOMAN TO FISH OUT OF HER PURSE A GUN, TURN AROUND, PIVOT, AIM AND FIRE AT A CAR FOLLOWING HER DOWN THE STREET IS PROBABLY NOT WHAT WE WANT TO HAVE IN OUR CITIES.

THE GUY MAY BE LOOKING FOR DIRECTIONS AND PEOPLE MAY OVERINTERPRET OTHER INDIVIDUALS WITH A GUN TAKE MATTERS INTO THEIR HANDS WHEN IT'S NOT WARRANTED.

>> I WANT TO BRING UP THE F.B.I.

STATISTICS THAT ONLY 16 OF THESE WERE SELF-DEFENSE.

WOMEN NEED TO BE VERY CAREFUL BECAUSE AS A FORMER PROSECUTOR AND A JUDGE AND BEING IN THE JUSTICE SYSTEM FOR MANY YEARS OF MY LIFE, WOMEN DON'T TEND TO GET OFF WHEN THEY SHOOT MEN.

VERY FEW YOU ARE TOLD YOU'RE RIGHT YOU WERE JUSTIFIED IN SHOOTING THAT MAN.

YOU END UP GOING TO PRISON.

THAT IS ANOTHER WHOLE DISCUSSION THAT NEEDS TO BE TALKED ABOUT WHEN WE ARE ENCOURAGING WOMEN TO HAVE GUNS.

THE OTHER THING IS IF YOU LOOK AT THE STATS IT'S SOMEBODY THAT YOU KNOW.

IT'S DOMESTIC VIOLENCE.

IT IS THAT PULLING IT OUT OF YOUR PURSE.

MOST OF THEM YOU ARE IN A HOME TYPE SITUATION, IN A CAR, IN SOME CLOSE ENCOUNTER WITH SOMEBODY THAT KNOWS YOU, KNOWS WHO YOU ARE, AND KNOWS HOW TO GET TO YOU.

>> DO YOU THINK WHAT HAPPENED IN LAS VEGAS PERSUADED WOMEN PARTICULARLY AND MEN WHO ARE AGAINST GUN CONTROL MAYBE IT'S TIME WE ENACTED SOMETHING?

I KNOW THE END RESULT IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE NOTHING EXCEPT PERHAPS, PERHAPS THE END OF THE MECHANISM THAT TURNS A SEMIAUTOMATIC INTO AN AUTOMATIC WEAPON.

BUT WHAT DO WE THINK IS GOING TO COME OUT OF THIS?

AND HOW WILL IT CHANGE PUBLIC OPINION?

>> PUBLIC OPINION IS IN FAVOR OF SOME OF THESE RESTRICTIONS AND THE QUESTION IS WHETHER IT CHANGES THE POLITICS.

I FEAR IT DOESN'T.

IT'S BECOME A POLARIZED ISSUES THAT GOES BEYOND GUNS THAT INVOKES OTHER IMAGES.

AND I DO NOT SEE THAT CHANGING.

>> THE NRA IS COMING OUT ON THIS.

WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THIS IS UNIQUE.

WHAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT HERE PREDATORY GUN USE AND THE REST IS IRRELEVANT.

THIS MAN PROBABLY HAD NO BACKGROUND OF GUNS, WAS UP STANDING CITIZEN WAS INDEED A RICH MAN.

BUT WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN THE HOUSE IS THAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE BEGINNING TO JOIN WITH US AT LEAST ON THE NOTION THAT THIS CONTRAPTION THAT ENABLES YOU TO TAKE A GUN AND MAKE IT INTO A MACHINE GUN, THAT THOSE OUGHT TO BE BARRED AND OUTLAWED.

I THINK FOR ONE -- >> YOU THINK THAT IS GOING TO PASS?

I MEAN -- THE NRA OBVIOUSLY CAME OUT AND SAID WELL WE'LL PERHAPS WE'LL CONSIDER THIS AND THEN WAYNE LAPIERRE, THE HEAD OF THE NRA WALKED IT BACK AND SAID WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT A BAN.

SO DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY ARE GOING TO LET THE HOUSE MEMBERS -- >> SHAME ON US IF WE DON'T.

FIRST THEY WERE SILENT THEN THEY LOOKED LIKE THEY WERE GOING TO GO FOR IT AND NOW SAYING MAYBE SOME VERSION OF IT RELEASES SOME OF THE REPUBLICANS TO COME FORWARD AND SAID WE ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE THIS.

>> HOW MANY MASS SHOOTINGS IS IT GOING TO STOP?

>> THIS WAS UNIQUE.

THIS MAN HAD TAKEN A CONTRAPTION AND MADE IT INTO A MACHINE GUN.

WE BEGIN TO GET THIS BILL PASSED BY FOCUSING ON THIS MATTER.

IF YOU WANT ANY PROCESS IN ANY PROCEDURE ON YOU DON'T GO FOR THE LOOPHOLE HERE.

YOU GO FOR FOCUS IN ON WHAT HAPPENED HERE AND THEN YOU DARE REPUBLICANS TO SAY WE DON'T THINK ANYTHING SHOULD BE DONE ABOUT THAT IN THE FUTURE.

>> THIS IS INTERESTING IS GOING BACK TO 2010 UNDER THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION THE ATF DECIDED THE GUN STOCKS COULD BE SOLD THESE MECHANISMS TO TURN THEM INTO MACHINE GUNS COULD BE SOLD.

IT WOULD BE A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR THE HOUSE AND THE REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS TO COME TOGETHER TO TRY TO ENFORCE FEDERAL LAW AROUND THAT PROHIBITS SEMIAUTOMATIC WEAPONS.

AND THIS IS A GOOD EFFORT.

ATED END OF THE DAY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A MASS SHOOTING AND SOMEBODY AS YOU SAID, FLEW UNDER THE RADAR.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HOW DO WE LEGISLATE THAT DEALS WITH THE HEART?

AND THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT CONGRESS CAN DO AND WE CAN WRITE A LAW.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SOMEBODY WHO WAS AN EVIL PERSON AND NO LAW IS GOING TO CHANGE THAT.

>> I'M NOT SO INTERESTED I WOULD LIKE TO THINK WE CAN COME UP WITH A COMBINATION OF LAWS THAT WOULD END MASS SHOOTINGS.

I'M MORE CONCERNED WITH THE 580,000 DEATHS FROM GUN VIOLENCE SINCE 9/11.

AND I THINK THERE HAS TO BE SOME AGREEMENT THEY MAY START OFF SMALL DELEGATE NORTON IS RIGHT.

YOU HAVE TO START SMALL BUT WHY DO WE HAVE BULLETS THAT CAN PIERCE THE BODY ARMOR OF A POLICE OFFICER?

IS THAT NECESSARY?

CAN WE HAVE SOME LIMIT ON THE NUMBER OF GUNS OR THE FREQUENCY WITH WHICH PEOPLE CAN COLLECT GUNS.

SOME STATES TRIED MEASURES OF A GUN A MONTH OR A YEAR.

THE NRA OPPOSES THAT.

WE CAN LOOK AT REASONABLE RESTRICTIONS THERE IS NO AMENDMENT THAT IS ABSOLUTE AND THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS NOT EITHER.

THEY HAVE THE RIGHT AND THE POWER TO REGULATE AND REAPABLE WAYS.

YOU CANNOT OWN A CANNON OR A NUCLEAR BOMB.

AND SOME OF THESE WEAPONS AND SOME OF THE AMMUNITION NEEDS TO BE REVIEWED.

LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @BONNIEERBE.

FROM GUN CONTROL TO ABORTION RIGHTS.

ANTI-ABORTION REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN TIM MURPHY OF PENNSYLVANIA WILL RETIRE FOLLOWING REPORTS OF AN EXTRAMARITAL AFFAIR DURING WHICH HE URGED HIS MISTRESS TO GET AN ABORTION DURING A PREGNANCY SCARE.

THE 64-YEAR-OLD CONGRESSMAN, THE ONLY PSYCHOLOGIST IN CONGRESS, ADMITTED TO THE AFFAIR WITH 32-YEAR-OLD FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST SHANNON EDWARDS.

THIS WEEK HE VOTED WITH A MAJORITY IN THE US HOUSE TO BAN ABORTIONS AFTER 20 WEEKS OF PREGNANCY.

IN 2013, TENNESSEE REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE AND MEDICAL DOCTOR, SCOTT DESJARLAIS, WAS CONFRONTED WITH DIVORCE RECORDS SHOWING HE'D ENCOURAGED WOMEN TO HAVE ABORTIONS, INCLUDING HIS EX-WIFE AND A PATIENT WITH WHOM HE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR.

HE IS STILL IN CONGRESS AND VOTED FOR THE SAME BILL THIS WEEK.

IN THE 1990S FORMER REPRESENTATIVE BOB BARR FROM GEORGIA WAS OUTED BY HIS EX-WIFE.

SHE SAID HE HAD HELPED HER GET AN ABORTION WHILE THEY WERE MARRIED.

>> SO HELP ME WITH THE THINKING THAT GOES BEHIND THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR.

>> DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO?

THAT IS BASICALLY WHAT IT IS.

THE HYPOCRISY IS HORRIFIC AND WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF HYPOCRISY IN POLITICS THESE DAYS.

BUT THE LEVEL TO WHICH WE ARE SEEING IT AND WHAT WE'RE TOLERATING HAS TO BE STOPPED.

>> WHAT IS THE ANSWER?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT CONGRESSMAN MURPHY IS DOING THE RIGHT THING TO LEAVE.

I NEVER THOUGHT HE WOULD BE ABLE TO STAY TO NOVEMBER.

AND I THINK PEOPLE THAT DO THIS NEED TO RESIGN THEIR OFFICE BUT WE ALSO NEED TO LOOK AT SOMETHING WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ABORTION.

LOOK AT THE AGES OF THE WOMEN AND THE WIVES.

WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT TEENAGE GIRLS AND THEY DON'T HAVE A VOICE BUT THE AVERAGE ABORTION TAKES PLACE BETWEEN 26-35 TO 37-YEAR-OLDS.

THESE ARE WOMEN WHO ARE MARRIED OR IN A RELATIONSHIPS AND THEY HAVE JOBS.

AND MEN KEEP ATTACKING WOMEN AND SAYING YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND YET THE SAME MEN ARE GOING BUT WHEN IT'S MY SITUATION AND I DON'T WANT TO OWN UP TO HAVING ANOTHER CHILD IT'S JUST FINE.

>> YOU KNOW, BONNIE, I WAS ON THE FLOOR JUST THIS WEEK BECAUSE THE 20-WEEK ABORTION BAN WAS ON THE FLOOR AND SOME OF US WENT ON THE FLOOR TO TALK ABOUT WOMEN WHO HAD HAD ABORTIONS.

I HAD A WOMAN IN MY DISTRICT WHO WAS PREGNANT WITH A FETUS THAT HAD LOST HALF OF ITS BRAIN WASN'T THERE AND SHE HAD AN ABORTION.

SHE COULD NOT HAVE HAD THIS BILL PREVAILED.

THESE REPUBLICANS WHO, BY THE WAY, VOTED FOR THIS 20-HAD WEEK ABORTION BAN, ARE IN MUCH WORSE SHAPE THAN DEMOCRATS.

BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN AGAINST SUCH LEGISLATION.

WHEREAS IF A DEMOCRAT WOULD HAVE BEEN EQUALLY I WOULD SAY IN THIS CASE, I WOULD HAVE BEEN EQUALLY CRITICAL OF A DEMOCRAT.

BUT AT LEAST THEY HAD NOT BEEN AT THE FRONT OF THE LINE SAYING NO ABORTIONS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

SO THE HYPOCRISY OF THE ENTIRE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS SHOWN UP AND THIS WAS A TERRIBLE WEEK FOR THIS TO COME OUT FOR THEM.

>> AND THE TWO STILL IN CONGRESS VOTED FOR THAT BAN.

>> I THINK IT'S UNFAIR TO PAINT EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN NEGATIVELY WITH THIS.

I MEAN THIS GUY MADE REALLY BAD DECISIONS.

AND I THINK -- >> 64 YEARS OLD WITH A 32-YEAR-OLD MISTRESS.

>> AND ANOTHER PART OF THE STORY IS HOW HE TREATED HIS STAFF.

HE HAD 100% TURNOVER RATE BECAUSE HE WAS ABUSIVE HOPEFULLY NOT PHYSICALLY BUT VERBALLY ABUSIVE.

THIS IS A GUY, WHO I THINK, HAS MADE A LOT OF TERRIBLE MISTAKES.

I DO NOT THINK IT'S RIGHT TO PAINT EVERY REPUBLICAN UNFORTUNATELY, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO SUPPORT ABORTION.

>> WE ARE NOT PAINTING EVERY BUT IT SO HAPPENS ON THIS ISSUE, THE THREE MOST RECENT HAVE BEEN REPUBLICANS.

>> IT IS A MAJOR TENANT OF THE REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

>> I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE ISSUE OF THE HYPOCRISY.

I THINK ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE THINK AND IT'S ACCURATE SEE SO MUCH OF IT IS BECAUSE OF THE INTENSE PARTISANSHIP.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF MY GUY DOES IT HE IS MY GUY HE IS ON OUR TEAM WE ARE GOING TO DEFEND HIM.

WHEN A CANDIDATE FOR CONGRESS PUNCHES A NEWSPAPER MAN, DOES THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE SAY NO, YOU CAN'T RUN?

OR NO WEREN'T NOT GOING TO SEAT YOU?

NO.

HE IS THEIRS, ANOTHER SEAT.

A LOT OF THE BEHAVIORAL ISSUES GO BACK TO ARE WE GOING TO MAINTAIN A UNIVERSAL STANDARDS OF BEHAVIOR MORALITY?

OR IS IT WHO WINS OR LOSES MY GUY IS UP AND YOUR GUY IS DOWN?

>> SHOULD THERE BE A PENALTY.

YOU WERE SAYING IT'S WRONG.

WHAT SHOULD BE THE PENALTY?

BEING UP SEATED?

>> NOT BEING ALLOWED TO VOTE ON ANYTHING HAVING TO DO WITH -- >> I AM NOT SURE THAT PAUL RYAN COULD HAVE SAID TO CONGRESSMAN MURPHY YOU CANNOT DO A VOTE ON THE FLOOR BECAUSE IT CAME OUT THAT YOU WOULD HAVE IF YOU COULD HAVE, RIGHT?

>> I'M TALKING FANTASY LAND.

>> FANTASY LAND IS GREAT I WOULD LIKE TO GO THERE.

SOMETIMES I FEEL LIKE WE LIVE IN IT.

>> AT THE END OF THE WEEK, THE PRESIDENT ROLLED BACK THE REQUIREMENT IN THE OBAMACARE THAT COMPANIES PAY FOR BIRTH CONTROL OR ALLOW WOMEN TO GET POLICIES THAT COVER CONTRACEPTION.

IS THIS THE END -- WHAT REPUBLICANS REALLY WANT?

THEY WANT WOMEN NOT ONLY TO HAVE ACCESS TO ABORTION BUT NOT HAVE ACCESS TO CONTRACEPTION?

>> I DO NOT THINK WE SHOULD GO THAT FAR.

PREOBAMACARE WOMEN COULD GET WHAT THEY NEEDED FROM THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES AND PLANS.

I DO NOT THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY BECAUSE OF OBAMACARE IF IT'S ROLLED OFF WOMEN WILL NO LONGER GET ACCESS TO CONTRACEPTIONS.

I DO NOT THINK THAT IS FAIR ASSESSMENT.

>> YOU ARE RIGHT UPPER CLASS WOMEN WILL HAVE NO PROBLEMS BUT POOR WOMEN?

>> WELL, I THINK THERE ARE PROGRAMS THAT POOR WOMEN CAN GET ACCESS TO THE CARE THAT THEY NEED.

ESPECIALLY AT THE SMALLER HOSPITALS, SMALLER -- THE WORD IS ESCAPING ME BUT IT'S POSSIBLE TO PROVIDE THAT FOR POORER WOMEN WITHOUT CREATING A MANDATE FOR EVERY PERSON TO HAVE TO HAVE THAT.

>> IT DRIVES ME CRAZY THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT YOU CAN GO OUT OF YOUR WAY AND GO SEVEN MILES AND TRY AND GET THIS AND GET THAT TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM AN UNWANTED PREGNANCY.

AND THERE'S NO WAY THAT WE WANT YOU TO BE ABLE TO TERMINATE THAT UNWANTED PREGNANCY.

WHY ARE WE ALLOWING PEOPLE TO TALK TO WOMEN THIS WAY?

AND USE WORDS LIKE MORAL, IF I AM YOUR EMPLOYER AND I DO NOT THINK IT IS MORAL FOR YOU TO HAVE BIRTH CONTROL THAT I AM ALLOWED TO DO THAT AND HAVE THAT EFFECT ON YOUR REPRODUCTIVE ORGANS?

THAT IS NUTS THAT WE ARE ALLOWING THIS TYPE OF LANGUAGE TO BE USED AGAINST WOMEN IN THIS COUNTRY.

>> I THINK THIS GOES TO ANOTHER ISSUE THAT HAS CONCERNED ME FOR A WHILE AND THAT IS THE NOTION THAT EITHER AN EMPLOYER OR PEOPLE PROVIDING A SERVICE CAN REFUSE SERVICE CAN DENY A SPECIAL BENEFIT BECAUSE OF THEIR OWN PERSONAL VIEWS.

IF YOU ARE IN BUSINESS AND OPERATING IN THE UNITED STATES, YOU SHOULD BE PLAYING FOUR SQUARE TREATING EVERYONE THE SAME.

I THINK THE NOTION THAT YOU CAN OPERATE A BUSINESS AND GET SPECIAL DISPENSATION BECAUSE YOU PERSONALLY WOULD NOT WANT TO USE CONTRACEPTION OR HAVE AN ABORTION IS SUSPECT.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT STATISTICS ACROSS THE BOARD PEOPLE ARE NOT PLEASED WITH THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR.

THE POLLS OVERWHELMINGLY SHOW THAT REFUSAL TO SERVE IS VERY UNPOPULAR ACROSS THE BOARD.

THERE IS AN ISSUE OF FAIRNESS.

YES WE RESPECT PEOPLE'S RELIGIOUS VIEWS NO ONE IS GOING TO FORCE YOURSELF TO USE A CONTRACEPTION BUT TO DENY IT.

>> THAT IS NOT WHAT THE PRESIDENT DID.

TO GO TO YOUR QUESTION ABOUT ROLLING BACK CONTRACEPTION WHICH IS RELATED TO WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING ABOUT ABORTION, REPUBLICANS WOULD BE MORE CREDIBLE ON ABORTIONS IF THEY DID NOT GO AT CONTRACEPTION AT THE SAME TIME.

>> RIGHT.

>> IN CONGRESS, DO YOU FEEL LIKE THEY WANT WOMEN TO BE BAREFOOT AND PREGNANT AGAIN?

IS THAT WHERE THEY WANT TO TAKE WOMEN?

>> THERE ARE FEW MEMBERS IN CONGRESS WHO HAVE MORE THAN ONE OR TWO KIDS.

THE HYPOCRISY IS ON EVERYBODY'S FACE IF THEY COME OUT AND SAY YOU SHOULD NOT USE A CONTRACEPTION.

WE ARE SUPPOSED TO STAND UP FOR THE RIGHT TO PRIVACY AND NOT TO HAVE ANYBODY INVADE THE PERSONAL DECISIONS.

>> WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN AS A RESULT OF THE ROLLBACK?

ARE WE GOING TO SEE MORE UNWANTED PREGNANCIES?

OR AN INCREASE IN ABORTION WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT THE PRO-LIFE RIGHT DOESN'T WANT TO SEE?

>> I DO NOT THINK WE ARE GOING TO STOP SEEING WOMEN BEING ABLE TO GET CONTRACEPTION.

WILL YOU SEE IT AMONG POORER COMMUNITIES THAT IS SOMETHING WE HAVE TO WATCH.

BUT I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF OVERKILL AND THIS IDEA THAT REPUBLICANS JUST WANT WOMEN TO GO BACK TO THE 1950s OR 40s IS WRONG.

I THINK YOU MADE THE STATEMENT QUITE WELL THAT IT IS IT SHOULD BE ABOUT YOUR INDIVIDUAL CHOICE AND THE GOVERNMENT SHOULDN'T BE PROVIDING IT NOR SHOULD TAXPAYERS BE FUNDING WHAT IS YOUR INDIVIDUAL DECISION.

>> SO I OPPOSE THE MILITARY FOR EXAMPLE.

SEE THEM GOING TO SUPPORT THE MILITARY BECAUSE I BELIEVE THERE IS A LOT OF WASTEFUL SPENDING ET CETERA.

IF EVERYBODY IN AMERICA HAD THEIR PERSONAL ITEM TAKEN OUT OF THEIR TAXES, WE WOULDN'T HAVE A GOVERNMENT.

WHICH IS PROBABLY WHAT -- WHAT ONE GETS THE SENSE THAT THAT MAY BE WHAT IS GOING ON HERE.

>> DELEGATE NORTON'S POINT, YOU KNOW REPUBLICANS WHO ARE A LITTLE SMARTER FIGURED THIS OUT.

COREY GARDENER WHO RAN FOR THE SENATE?

COLORADO WAS ATTACKED USING THE WAR ON WOMEN POLITICAL MESSAGING.

AND HE SAID YOU KNOW WHAT?

I'M FOR CONTRACEPTIVE ACCESS, I WANT TO MAKE IT AVAILABLE OVER-THE-COUNTER AND HE WENT FULL IN.

AND I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.

THEY WOULD HAVE MUCH MORE CREDIBILITY ON THIS ISSUE IF THERE WAS AN UNDERSTANDING THAT A DIFFERENCE OBVIOUSLY BETWEEN CONTRACEPTION ACCESS AND ABORTIONS.

>> AND WE CAN USE STATISTICS TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION THAT YOU ASKED ABOUT IS THIS GOING TO CAUSE AN INCREASE IN ABORTIONS?

AND THE ANSWER IS YES.

WILL IT DISPROPORTIONATELY AFFECT PEOPLE OF LOWER INCOME?

THE ANSWER IS YES.

THE STATISTICS ARE OUT THERE.

WE HAVE HAD A DECREASE IN ABORTIONS OVER THE YEARS AS WE HAVE HAD MORE ACCESS TO CONTRACEPTIVES.

PREVENTION.

SO THAT IS THE QUESTION THAT IS THERE.

>> ARE WE GOING TO SEE WE SAW THE WOMEN'S MARCH ON WASHINGTON.

ARE WE GOING TO SEE A RESPONSE TO THIS?

ARE WOMEN POOR WOMEN, WOMEN OF COLOR, WHO RELY MOST HEAVILY ON THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE PLANS FOR CONTRACEPTIVES MORE SO THAN MIDDLE OR UPPER CLASS WOMEN ARE THEY GOING TO DO ANYTHING PUBLIC ABOUT IT?

>> I WILL TRY TO FIX IT IN THE APPROPRIATION BILL.

I THINK THAT THIS IS -- >> DO YOU THINK YOU WILL SUCCEED?

>> AGAIN, IF YOU GO TO THE SENATE THE WAY I DO THERE'S MORE SANITY THAN IN THE HOUSE SOMETIMES YOU CAN KEEP SOME OF THESE THINGS FROM HAPPENING.

THERE HAS TO BE MONEY AND I THINK THE APPROPRIATIONS -- >> YOU CAN SAY THAT PRESIDENT OBAMA UN LAT RATLY PUT IT INTO THE ACA.

>> OH, NO.

THE ACA WENT THROUGH THE FULL HEARING PROCESS AND WAS ENACTED BY THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES.

HE IS TRYING TO SNATCH BACK THINGS.

>> BUT THEY DID A WORK AROUND WHEN CONTRACEPTIVES WHEN THERE WAS THE CONTROVERSY OVER THE HOBBY LOBBY CASE THEY DID A WORK AROUND WHICH CAME OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE AND OUT OF HHS THAT DID NOT GO THROUGH CONGRESS.

>> IT'S INTERESTING.

AT THE TIME THE REPUBLICANS COMPLAIN THAT THE PRESIDENT IS DOING ALL THESE UNILATERAL ACTIONS.

YOU CANNOT CHANGE OBAMACARE YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH CONGRESS.

AND NOW WHAT IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES DONE?

HE HAS DONE SOMETHING UNILATERAL ACTIONS.

ARE WE GOING TO GO THROUGH CONGRESS OR NOT?

THAT MAY BE GOOD OR A BAD THING.

BUT THE REPUBLICANS UNTIL JANUARY 20TH OF THIS YEAR WERE ALL ABOUT REDUCING THE POWER OF THE EXECUTIVE.

AND EMPOWERING CONGRESS.

THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE OF THAT AND LESS UNILATERALISM FROM AN ADMINISTRATION THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS HAVE ISSUES WITH.

>> SO YOUR QUESTION I'M NOT SURE THAT LOW INCOME WOMEN NECESSARILY AS A GROUP WILL RISE UP AND MARCH AND PROTEST.

BUT I THINK WOMEN AS A WHOLE SHOULD.

AND WE SHOULD BE LOOKING OUT FOR ALL ELEMENTS OF THE ECONOMIC SCALE OF WOMEN.

SOMETIMES YOU DO NOT HAVE THE LUXURY OF MARCHING AND THE LUXURY OF TAKING TIME OFF WORK BUT WE ARE UNDER ASSAULT AS WOMEN.

AND I AM LITERALLY HORRIFIED THAT 100 YEARS AFTER MARGARET SANGER AND BIRTH CONTROL WE'RE HERE.

>> SORRY WE ARE OUT OF TIME.

BECAUSE OF THE NEWS, WE WILL BRING YOU THE STORY ABOUT A GENDER EQUAL WORLD AT A LATER DATE.

PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE, PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY, SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.PT OR TO SEE AN ON-LINE VERSION OF THIS EPISODE OF TO THE CONTRARY VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.