THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY.•• FIRST, WOMEN: THE KEY TO PEACE?

THEN, THE ROLE OF DIPLOMACY IN ENDING MODERN SLAVERY.

BEHIND THE HEADLINES: POLITICAL VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN.

[♪♪] HELLO, I'M BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY, A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

THIS WEEK WE'VE ASSEMBLED A PANEL OF OUTSTANDING FEMALE DIPLOMATS, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE MADELEINE ALBRIGHT, UNDER SECRETARIES ELLEN TAUSCHER AND PAULA DOBRIANSKY AND ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE JENDAYI FRAZER.

UP FIRST, WOMEN AND DIPLOMACY.

DO WOMEN WORK DIFFERENTLY THAN MEN IN DIPLOMACY?

THE MYTH MIGHT BE THAT WOMEN ARE LESS BELLIGERENT THAN MEN, BUT THERE HAVE BEEN EXCEPTIONS, SUCH AS FORMER BRITISH PRIME MINISTER MARGARET THATCHER, WHO LAUNCHED A WAR IN THE FALKLAND ISLANDS.

SOME EXPERTS SAY IF A WOMAN WERE SECRETARY OF STATE OR EVEN PRESIDENT, RIGHT NOW, WE WOULD NOT HAVE HAD NORTH KOREA ISSUE A DECLARATION OF WAR AGAINST THE UNITED STATES.

FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE MADELEINE ALBRIGHT HAS BEEN QUOTED AS SAYING, ""I REALLY THINK THAT THERE WAS A GREAT ADVANTAGE IN MANY WAYS TO BEING A WOMAN.

I THINK WE ARE A LOT BETTER AT PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS, AND THEN HAVE THE CAPABILITY OBVIOUSLY OF TELLING IT LIKE IT IS WHEN IT'S NECESSARY."

SO, MADAM SECRETARY, WITH THINGS BE DIFFERENT NOW IF YOU WERE STILL SECRETARY OF STATE?

>> THEY WOULD BE DIFFERENT IF HILLARY CLINTON WERE PRESIDENT.

AND BASICALLY, LIFE IS -- THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT WE ARE IN A VERY, VERY COMPLICATED ERA WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN TRUE NO MATTER WHAT.

BUT I THINK HAVING PEOPLE THAT HAVE AN EXPERIENCE IN FOREIGN POLICY AND UNDERSTAND DIPLOMACY, IS VERY IMPORTANT.

AND I DO THINK THAT I WAS THE FIRST WOMAN SECRETARY OF STATE.

AND PEOPLE THOUGHT A WOMAN COULDN'T BE SECRETARY OF STATE AND SAID ARABS WOULD NOT DEAL WITH A WOMAN.

AND WHAT HAPPENED I HAD BEEN AT THE UNITED NATIONS BEFORE AND THE ARAB AMBASSADORS GOT TOGETHER AND PUT OUT A STATEMENT AND SAYING WE HAD NO PROBLEMS DEALING WITH AMBASSADOR ALBRIGHT SO WE WOULDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE SECRETARY ALBRIGHT.

I HAD MORE PROBLEMS WITH THE MEN IN OUR OWN GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THEY HAD KNOWN ME TOO LONG AS THE CAR-POOL MOTHER AND COOKED DINNER FOR THEM AND BEEN A STAFFER AND THEY THOUGHT THEY SHOULD BE SECRETARY OF STATE AND HOW DID I GET THERE.

>> AND YOU AS UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE HOW DO WOMEN -- WHAT WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE IN TERMS OF HOW WOMEN DO DIPLOMACY DIFFERENTLY IF AT ALL?

>> I CAME FROM THE CONGRESS.

IT WAS A DIFFERENT SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES FOR ME.

I WAS VERY LUCKY TO BE ASKED BY PRESIDENT OBAMA AND SECRETARY CLINTON TO BECOME UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR ARMS CONTROL.

I LEFT THE CONGRESS WHERE I HAD BEEN CHAIRMAN OF THE ARMS SERVICES COMMITTEE STRATEGIC FORCES.

I HAD EXPERIENCE BUT IT WAS A NEW WORLD TO GO TO THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND I WAS VERY LUCKY.

PEOPLE WERE VERY NICE TO ME EVEN THOUGH I WAS NOT A TRAINED FOREIGN SERVICE OFFICER.

AND THE BUREAU THAT I HAD, HAD 600 PEOPLE, THREE ASSISTANT SECRETARIES AND A NUMBER OF VERY, VERY, FRANKLY, SOME OF THE SMARTEST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD WHEN IT COMES TO TREATY ART AND NONPROLIFERATION AND BIOAND CHEMICAL WEAPONS.

IT WAS WONDERFUL TO WORK WITH THEM.

>> BUT THAT IS REALLY MALE TERRITORY THAT YOU WERE IN?

>> IT IS.

IT'S VERY WHITE AND VERY MALE.

AND YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT MY TIME THERE AND SUBSEQUENTLY WE HAVE DONE OUR BEST TO TRY TO DIVERSIFY THAT AREA.

ARMS CONTROL IS A BIG ISSUE.

WE THOUGHT THAT PERHAPS WE WOULD BE IN A DIFFERENT WORLD AS WE TURNED INTO THE 21ST CENTURY BUT THAT IS NOT WHERE WE ARE.

AND WE NEED THE BEST AND THE BRIGHTEST OF AMERICA AND WE NEED A DIVERSE AND SMART WORKFORCE THAT UNDERSTANDS ALL OF THE PARTS OF ARMS CONTROL AND GLAD TO SEE WE ARE BUILDING THAT.

>> WERE YOU ABLE TO USE YOUR GENDER TO HELP YOU IN NEGOTIATIONS ON ARMS TREATIES?

>> YOU KNOW, I SPENT 17 YEARS ON WALL STREET AND HAD A REPUTATION FOR BEING ABLE TO NEGOTIATE.

I WAS A MODERATE IN THE CONGRESS THAT NEGOTIATED WITH BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLES.

I WAS NOT AFRAID TO TAKE ON A TOUGH ISSUE AND SIT DOWN AND TALK ABOUT IT.

I WAS GLAD TO HAVE PEOPLE THAT COULD SCHOOL ME IN EXACTLY THE TREATY ART THE DANCE OF SITTING AND NEGOTIATING.

THERE IS A LOT ABOUT IT THAT IS ENTRICATE.

BUT I THINK I DID TRY TO LEVERAGE THE FACT THAT I WAS NOT THAT I HAD A LOT AT STAKE AND I KNEW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT.

BUT I WAS ALSO, I THINK, TRYING TO DEPEND ON THE FACT THAT I HAD SMART PEOPLE AROUND ME.

>> UNDER SECRETARY, PAULA DOBRIANSKY, DID YOU FIND YOU WERE UNDER SECRETARY FOR TWO TERMS UNDER GEORGE BUSH.

DID YOU FIND BEING A WOMAN TO BE AN ADVANTAGE OR DISADVANTAGE IN YOUR NEGOTIATIONS?

>> WELL, I'VE SPENT MOST OF MY OWN CAREER IN FOREIGN POLICY.

I WILL SAY THE ONLY DIFFERENCE I SAW BETWEEN THE FIRST TERM AND THE SECOND TERM WAS THE FACT THAT WE HAD OF THE SIX UNDER SECRETARIES OF STATE WE HAD TWO IN THE FIRST TERM AND WE HAD AND FOUR MEN, AND WE HAD FOUR UNDER SECRETARIES WHO WERE WOMEN IN THE SECOND TERM AND TWO MEN.

I WOULD SAY THERE WAS A REAL PREMIUM PLACED ON DIVERSITY.

I THINK BOTH IN HIGH LEVEL POSITIONS, IN ALL DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS NOT JUST THE STATE DEPARTMENT.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE BROUGHT IN AND QUALIFICATIONS WERE LOOKED AT.

IT WAS NOT ONLY DIVERSIFICATION BUT ALSO QUALIFICATIONS.

I DO NOT NEED TO TELL THE WOMEN AT THIS TABLE THERE ARE A LOT OF WOMEN WHO ARE QUALIFIED AND COMPETED FOR POSITIONS AND ENDED UP IN HIGH LEVEL POSITIONS IN THE GEORGE W. BUSH ADMINISTRATION.

IT WAS GREAT.

I WOULD NOT HAVE STAYED FOR EIGHT YEARS IF I WAS NOT MOTIVATED BY THE POLICY BUT IF I DID NOT ENJOY WHAT I WAS DOING.

THERE WAS CAMARADERIE AND I FELT A GOOD INTEGRATION IN THIS MALE.

WHETHER YOU HAD A MALE OR FEMALE DIPLOMAT.

>> YOU WERE THE FIRST FEMALE AMBASSADOR TO SOUTH AFRICA.

UNDER SENT BY PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH.

AND YOU HAVE YOUR AFRICAN-AMERICAN OBVIOUSLY AND YOU ARE A WOMAN HOW DID THAT AFFECT YOUR CAREER IN DIPLOMACY?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT BEING FROM WHAT IS CONSIDERED A MINORITY GROUP OR AN OUTSIDE GROUP WHETHER IT'S BASED ON GENDER AURAS OR RELIGION, GIVES YOU A BROADER PERSPECTIVE.

YOU HAVE TO MASTER THE DOMINANT CULTURE.

SO AS A WOMAN DIPLOMAT CLEARLY THE DOMINANT CULTURE WAS MALE DIPLOMATS.

AND YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO NAVIGATE THAT, FIT IN WELL.

I THINK IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE A THICK SKIN.

I STARTED MY CAREER IN GOVERNMENT ACTUALLY AT THE PENTAGON AT THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF IN A SMALL ROOM FULL OF FIVE GUYS WHO WERE CRUDE.

BUT I HAVE TO SAY IT ON A DAILY BASIS THEY WERE VERY CRUDE.

AND I LEARNED TO MANAGE THAT.

AND TO GET THE WORK DONE.

AND SO I THINK THAT THOSE EARLY LESSONS PROVED VERY HELPFUL TO ME AS I ROSE UP IN THE RANKS -- I AM NOT A FOREIGN SERVICE OFFICER I AM A POLITICAL APPOINTEE WHEN I WAS IN GOVERNMENT.

AS I ROSE UP TO ASSISTANT SECRETARY I HAD THAT THICK SKIN AND I UNDERSTOOD HOW TO BE IN DIVERSE SETTINGS AND BE COMFORTABLE THERE.

>> WERE YOU INVOLVED IN GETTING HER APPOINTED?

>> I WISH I COULD SAY I WAS BUT MAY BE IN A SLIGHT WAY, BECAUSE UNDER SECRETARIES ARE REPRESENTED ON THE D COMMITTEE.

AND IN WHICH SELECTIONS ARE MADE FOR AMBASSADORSHIPS BUT THOSE ARE FOREIGN SERVICE OFFICERS.

BUT JENDAYI FRAZER WAS OUTSTANDING NOT ONLY AS AMBASSADOR BUT OUTSTANDING AS AN ASSISTANT SECRETARY.

I WAS GOING TO POINT OUT SOMETHING INTERESTING AND THAT IS THE ISSUE OF MENTORS.

ALL OF MY MENTORS DURING MY 25 PLUS CAREER ACTUALLY WERE MEN.

AND MEN WHO AS DIPLOMATS WHO REALLY PROVIDED GUIDANCE AND ENCOURAGEMENT, SUPPORT, AND REALLY PUT THEIR ACTIONS WHERE THEIR MOUTHS WERE.

AND IN THAT SENSE, I THINK I BENEFITED GREATLY FROM THEM, FROM THEIR ADVICE.

AND I'VE SEEN A REAL CHANGE IN DIPLOMACY.

AND I THINK THE STATISTICS NOW THAT MORE WOMEN ARE ACTUALLY FOREIGN SERVICE OFFICERS THAN MEN AT THIS TIME.

>> IS THAT GOING TO CHANGE THINGS?

>> I THINK THAT WOMEN HAVE A ROLE TO PLAY.

BUT I ALSO THINK MEN DO.

IT DEPENDS ON THE QUALIFICATIONS OF THE PERSON.

THERE ARE GOOD DIPLOMATS AND BAD DIPLOMATS AND BOTH FIT IN BOTH CATEGORY.

>> UNFORTUNATELY WE HAVE NO DIPLOMATS BECAUSE IN THIS ADMINISTRATION NONE OF THE UNDER SECRETARIES HAVE BEEN APPOINTED.

>> HOW UNUSUAL IS THAT?

>> IT'S NEVER HAPPENED.

NEVER HAPPENED LIKE THIS.

AND YOU KNOW THOSE ARE REAL DEFICITS.

PAULA'S CASE IN PUBLIC DIPLOMACY A KEY ALLY TO THE PRESIDENT PROVIDING THE PRESIDENT AND THE SECRETARY WITH IMPORTANT INFORMATION.

IN MY CASE, UNDER SECRETARY FOR ARMS CONTROL.

IT WOULD BE NICE TO KNOW THERE WAS SOMEONE WITH THE GROUNDING OF THAT BACKGROUND ADVISING THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE PRESIDENT AND THE SECRETARY RIGHT NOW ON THESE ISSUES.

NONE OF THOSE JOBS HAVE BEEN NOMINATED AND CONFIRMED.

THAT IS A MAJOR HOLE IN THE CAPABILITIES OF THE GOVERNMENT.

THE CAPABILITIES OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL AND THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND THE PRESIDENT TO GET THE BEST ADVICE AND THE BEST KIND OF SENSE FOR A PATH FORWARD.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @BONNIEERBE.

FROM DIPLOMATIC DIFFERENCES TO THE FIGHT AGAINST HUMAN TRAFFICKING.

HUMAN TRAFFICKING IS A FORM OF MODERN SLAVERY-A MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR CRIMINAL INDUSTRY THAT DENIES FREEDOM TO MORE THAN 20 MILLION PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD.

ACCORDING TO THE UNITED NATIONS, WOMEN AND GIRLS ARE 71% OF THOSE TRAFFICKED.

NO MATTER WHERE YOU LIVE, CHANCES ARE IT'S HAPPENING NEARBY.

FROM THE GIRL FORCED INTO PROSTITUTION AT A TRUCK STOP, TO THE MAN DISCOVERED IN A RESTAURANT KITCHEN, STRIPPED OF HIS PASSPORT AND HELD AGAINST HIS WILL.

ALL TRAFFICKING VICTIMS SHARE ONE ESSENTIAL EXPERIENCE: THE LOSS OF FREEDOM.

THE STATE DEPARTMENT IS IN CHARGE OF THE COUNTRY'S INTERNATIONAL EFFORTS TO COMBAT HUMAN TRAFFICKING AND COORDINATES DOMESTIC ANTI-TRAFFICKING.

SO UNDER SECRETARY PAULA DOBRIANSKY YOU WERE -- YOU HAD A SPECIAL INTEREST IN THIS ISSUE WHEN YOU WERE AT THE STATE DEPARTMENT.

WHAT DID YOU GET DONE?

>> IN FACT I WAS UNDER SECRETARY FOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS AND IN MY LINE WE HAD TO ESTABLISH THE TRAFFICKING IN PERSONS OFFICE.

AND WE CAME IN THE GEORGE W. BUSH ADMINISTRATION CAME ON THE HEELS OF LEGISLATION AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO POINT THAT OUT AND PARTICULARLY WITH THE FORMER CONGRESSWOMAN SITTING HERE THERE WAS LEGISLATION THAT WAS ADVANCED.

IT WAS THE TRAFFICKING VICTIMS AND PROTECTION ACT ON THE HOUSE SIDE CONGRESSMAN CHRIS SMITH AND THE SENATE SIDE NOW DECEASED BUT SENATOR PAUL WELLSTONE AND THEY ADVANCED THIS LEGISLATION.

IT WAS IN THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION, LEGISLATION WAS SIGNED AND THEN ENACTED BUT IT WAS THEN THE TRANSITION WHERE WHEN I WAS AT THE STATE DEPARTMENT WE HAD TO CREATE THE OFFICE.

WE HAD TO TAKE THE STEPS.

IT WAS VERY GROUNDBREAKING.

SO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WERE ACHIEVED ONE WAS THE FACT THAT THIS OFFICE WAS CREATED.

WE AGREED THAT IT WOULD REPORT DIRECTLY TO THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE RATHER THAN TO A BUREAU.

TO GIVE IT A HIGH LEVEL ATTENTION AND PROMINENCE.

AND WE HAD TO ISSUE THE ANNUAL REPORT.

AND THE FIRST SEVERAL YEARS THERE WEREN'T SANCTIONS ATTACHED TO THOSE COUNTRIES THAT APPEARED ON THE HIGHEST TIER.

TIER, ONE, TIER TWO, TIER THREE, THREE BEING THE MOST DIFFICULT.

>> WHERE DO WE RANK?

>> THE STATE DEPARTMENT DOES NOT RANK THE U.P.S.

WE NEVER OFFICIALLY RANKED THE UNITED STATES.

IT'S OUTWARD LOOKING.

BUT LET ME TELL YOU DURING THAT PERIOD HAD THE THREE TEERS AND WE LOOKED AT THE PROTECTION OF VICTIMS THE PREVENTION OF TRAFFICKING AND THE PROSECUTION OF THOSE CRIMINALS.

I WANT TO MENTION TWO GROUNDBREAKING THINGS THAT DID OCCUR DURING MY TIME WITH THAT LEGISLATION.

AND ALSO WE WERE REQUIRED TO HOLD CABINET-LEVEL MEETINGS.

AND THAT WAS PHENOMENAL.

EACH SECRETARY OF STATE DID THAT, BROUGHT IN ALL THE CABINET MEMBERS SO EVERY CABINET MEMBER, THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, SECRETARY OF HHS, THE HEAD OF C.I.A.

ALL OF THEM CAME TO TALK ABOUT HOW DO WE PULL TOGETHER TO COMBAT IT?

>> IT -- >> WHAT IS INTERESTING IT WAS NOT VIEWED AS AN ISSUE FOR A LONGTIME.

AND WHEN WE WERE IN OFFICE, ALL OF A SUDDEN IT BECAME CLEAR THAT THIS CRIMINAL ACTIVITY WAS GOING ON.

AND SO IT WAS REALLY WE BEGAN IT IN THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION IN TERMS OF LOOKING AT IT.

>> HAS IT BEEN BEATEN BACK, IF YOU WILL?

>> I WANT TO ONE THING -- I THINK ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT BRINGS TOGETHER WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE IF WOMEN ARE IN OFFICE?

SO ONE OF THE THINGS I CREATED A GROUP OF WOMEN FOREIGN MINISTERS.

AND WE WOULD MEET IN NEW YORK REGULARLY AND WE TALK ABOUT OUR LIVES BUT WE WOULD ALWAYS OFFER SOMETHING AND WE GOT TOGETHER 10 OF US, THAT IN FACT, SAID SOMETHING HAD TO BE DONE ABOUT IT INTERNATIONALLY.

AND WE LOBBIED IN TERMS OF AND I THINK IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE IF YOU HAVE WOMEN IN THESE PARTICULAR POSITIONS.

BUT IT WAS A NEW CRIME, FRANKLY.

IT WAS YOU WOULD THINK IT WASN'T.

AND YOU ASKED ABOUT THE UNITED STATES, I THINK PEOPLE WERE STUNNED TO FIND OUT HOW BAD THINGS WERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

SO WE COULD TALK ABOUT WHATEVER FOREIGN COUNTRY BUT WE WERE NOT EXACTLY AT THE TOP OF THE LIST.

>> AND THEN SECRETARY CLINTON FOR WHOM YOU WORKED SHE SETUP AN GLOBAL AMBASSADORSHIP FOR WOMEN'S ISSUES.

HAS THAT BEEN ROLLED BACK UNDER THIS ADMINISTRATION?

>> I BELIEVE SO.

BUT YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT IN MANY CASES, A LOT OF OUR ALLIES ARE KEEPING UP THE PACE.

AND I THINK THERE'S BEEN A HEIGHTENED AWARENESS.

WE ARE ONE OF THE FEW COUNTRIES THAT HAS NOT HAD A WOMAN TAKE THE OFFICE OF PRESIDENT.

WE'VE HAD ONE THAT WON THE POPULAR VOTE BUT NOT TAKE THE OFFICE OF PRESIDENT.

AND IN MANY COUNTRIES IT IS NOT JUST THE DIPLOMATS AND THE PEOPLE IN THE GOVERNMENT OR THE WOMEN THAT ARE MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT OR CONGRESS.

WHEN YOU HAVE A WOMAN THAT IS THE HEAD OF STATE THAT CHANGES THINGS, TOO.

ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU START TO SEE THINGS ABOUT CHILDCARE AND EDUCATION AND THE THINGS THAT ARE THE UNDERPINNINGS OF DEMOCRACY OF CIVIL SOCIETY THAT GIVE PEOPLE A CHANCE A SENSE THAT THEY CAN COMPETE.

REALLY COME TO THE FORE.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT WHY WOMEN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

>> WE'RE ABOUT OUT OF TIME.

AND I WANT TO GET... >> I THINK IT'S FIRST OF ALL LET ME SAY THAT SECRETARY ALBRIGHT'S GROUP OF WOMEN AND FOREIGN MINISTERS CONTINUED THROUGH CONDOLEEZZA RICE AS WELL.

AND I THINK IT'S AN EFFECTIVE MECHANISM TO BRING ATTENTION TO THESE TYPES OF ISSUES.

I THINK WE NEED TO GO BEYOND WHERE WE ARE TODAY.

WRITING REPORTS ARE FINE BUT THEY CAN BECOME A BUREAUCRATIC PROCESS.

HOLDING MEETINGS BRINGS VISIBILITY BUT WE NEED TO GET THE TOOLS TO FOLLOW THE MONEY, TO HOLD THESE PEOPLE YOU KNOW, FOR CRIMINAL OFFENSES.

I THINK WE SEE HOW WE CAN DO THAT WHEN WE DID THE WAR AGAINST TERRORISM.

WE HAVE THE TOOLS.

WE CAN APPLY THEM TO THE TRAFFICKERS.

BECAUSE -- >> DO YOU SEE THAT HAPPENING UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION?

>> WELL, NO, I DO NOT SEE IT HAPPENING UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION BUT IT IS A DISARRAY.

THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS NOT FOUND ITS PLACE.

SO THIS ISSUE IS NOT GOING TO BE ONE OF THE HIGHER ONES.

BUT THE MORE WOMEN FOREIGN MINISTERS, PRESIDENTS, DIPLOMATS, I THINK YOU WILL GET THE ATTENTION THAT IT NEEDS.

>> WE'RE OUT OF TIME.

SORRY.

BEHIND THE HEADLINES.

SOME EXPERTS SAY POLITICAL OPPORTUNITIES GLOBALLY FOR WOMEN ARE LIMITED BY VIOLENCE THEY FACE IN THEIR OWN LIVES AS WELL AS BY CULTURE THAT TEACHES WOMEN NOT TO ASPIRE TO POLITICAL OFFICE.

WE SPOKE WITH THE DIRECTOR FOR GENDER, WOMEN AND DEMOCRACY AT THE NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTE ABOUT THEIR EFFORTS TO EMPOWER WOMEN.

>> IN SOMEPLACES MEN IN PARTICULAR SEE THIS AS A ZERO SUM GAME.

WOMEN UP, MEN DOWN.

I'M LOSING.

THAT IS NOT THE WAY IT IS.

WE FOCUS ON WOMEN'S INTEGRATION BECAUSE WE TRULY BELIEVE THAT A MORE INCLUSIVE, RESPONSIVE POLITICAL ARENA IS BETTER FOR EVERYBODY.

>> SANDRA PEPERA IS DIRECTOR OF GENDER WOMEN AND DEMOCRACY AT THE NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTE.

SHE FOCUSES ON WOMEN'S PARTICIPATION IN POLITICS INTERNATIONALLY.

WOMEN MAKEUP 23% OF FEMALE LAWMAKERS GLOBALLY COMPARED WITH 19% IN THE U.S. THAT, SHE SAYS, IS A HISTORICAL HIGH.

BUT, PEPERA ADDS THAT DOESN'T MEAN THERE IS A BALANCE OF POWER BETWEEN WOMEN AND MEN.

THE BIGGEST FACTORS MITIGATING AGAINST WOMEN'S PARTICIPATION ARE VIOLENCE AND CULTURE.

>> IN SOME COUNTRIES WE KNOW WOMEN ARE NOT ALLOWED TO STEP OUTSIDE THE HOME WITHOUT A MALE CHAPERON.

IN OTHER COUNTRIES WHERE THE UK AND THE UNITED STATES YOU SAY WE HAVE ALL THE RIGHTS AND THE FREEDOMS AND THE RESOURCES TO STEP INTO POLITICS, WOMEN'S LEADERSHIP CAN COME UNDER VICIOUS ATTACK.

ON-LINE, IN THE MEDIA, AND FROM OTHER POLITICAL OPPONENTS.

>> MALE POLITICIANS ARE VICTIMS OF POLITICALLY MOTIVATED CRIMES AS WELL.

FOR EXAMPLE, EARLIER THIS YEAR, REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE STEVE SCALISE WAS SHOT AT A CONGRESSIONAL BASEBALL PRACTICE.

PEPERA SAYS AS WOMEN BECOME MORE POLITICALLY ENGAGED, ATTACKS DIRECTED AT THEM ARE GROWING.

AND BEING USED TO SUPPRESS THEIR PARTICIPATION.

>> IN UGANDA WE HAD A SITUATION WHERE THE OPPOSITION PARTY IN 2016 WENT OUT TO CAMPAIGN AND THEY WERE STOPPED BY THE POLICE AND TUSSLE BROKE OUT.

AND THE POINT AT WHICH THE WOMAN WHO WAS LEADING ONE OF THE PARTIES WAS TAKEN ASIDE AND STRIPPED NAKED.

THAT IS AN ISSUE OF A VIOLENCE THAT IS DIRECTLY SPECIFICALLY TOWARDS THE WOMAN AND IT SAYS DON'T COME OUT HERE.

THIS IS NOT THE ARENA FOR YOU.

YOU SHOULDN'T BE OUT HERE.

WHAT UGANDAN WOMAN IS GOING TO JOIN POLITICS AFTER THAT?

>> 2016 WAS A TRAGIC YEAR FOR POLITICALLY ACTIVE WOMEN.

WOMEN LIKE MENUS THE INTERNET TO ORGANIZE, FUNDRAISE AND SPREAD MESSAGES.

PEPERA IS CONCERNED ABOUT THE CHILLING IMPACT OF ON-LINE HARASSMENT AGAINST YOUNG WOMEN AND INTERNATIONAL PARLIAMENTARY UNION SURVEY FOUND 80% OF FEMALE PARLIAMENTARIANS FACE THREATS ON-LINE.

THIS HAS A DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACT ON YOUNG WOMEN WHO ARE MORE LIKELY TO SHUN POLITICS THAN YOUNG MEN.

>> YOUNG WOMEN ARE 80% MORE LIKELY NOT TO EVEN STEP UP FOR ANY PUBLIC LEADERSHIP POSITION WHEN THEY SEE HIGH PROFILE WOMEN BEING VILIFIED IN THE PRESS OR ON-LINE.

>> THE NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTE HAS ISSUED A GLOBAL CALL TO ACTION TO END VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN IN POLITICS.

IT'S CALLED HASHTAG NOT THE COST.

>> WOMEN THEMSELVES HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD THAT THIS IS NOT THE COST OF BEING IN POLITICS.

THAT IS WHY WE'VE COINED THE PHRASE THAT IT'S UNACCEPTABLE TO BE PREYED UPON PHYSICALLY, SEXUALLY, PSYCHOLOGICALLY.

>> SO, SECRETARY ALBRIGHT, DO YOU SEE VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN IN POLITICS ON THE RISE?

OR STAYING STEADY?

OR GOING DOWN AT THIS POINT IN TIME?

>> I'M CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF THE NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTE.

AND TWO YEARS AGO I WENT TO THE UNITED NATIONS TO REALLY PUSH THE NOT THE COST AND MAKE IT CLEAR IT WAS ON THE RISE.

AND THE BOTTOM LINE IS I WAS IN MEXICO WHERE MORE WOMEN HAVE BEEN ELECTED WHICH IS TERRIFIC.

BUT SO HAS VIOLENCE AGAINST THEM.

SO IT IS A DOUBLE EDGED SWORD IN THAT PARTICULAR WAY AND WE HAVE TO BE CLEAR ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE DO WANT MORE WOMEN IN OFFICE.

AND BY THE WAY, I WAS THE FIRST ONE TO HAVE A WOMEN'S PERSON AMBASSADOR AT THE STATE DEPARTMENT, HILLARY TOOK IT TO A WHOLE OTHER LEVEL.

BUT THE REASON NOT JUST BECAUSE I AM A FEMINIST BUT SOCIETIES ARE MORE STABLE WHEN WOMEN ARE POLITICALLY AND ECONOMICALLY EMPOWERED.

SO WE DO WANT MORE WOMEN TO RUN FOR OFFICE AND NDI DOES A LOT TO SUPPORT THAT.

BUT I WAS TROUBLED WHEN I HEARD THE MORE WOMEN THE MORE VIOLENCE.

WE HAVE TO PUSHBACK ON NOT THE COST.

>> AND YOUR THOUGHTS?

DID YOU SEE THAT WHEN YOU WERE -- >> I RAN OR CONGRESS AND WON SEVEN TIMES.

AND I HAVE TO SAY IN MY PART OF THE EAST BAY OF SAN FRANCISCO, I DID NOT HAVE A LOT OF THAT.

BUT SUBSEQUENTLY, SOCIAL MEDIA BECAME, I RAN IN 96, 7, SO IT WAS BEFORE ALL OF THAT STARTED.

BUT SUBSEQUENTLY, YOU KNOW, WHEN I AM ON Facebook OR TWITTER I CAN SEE THE TERRIBLE WAY THAT WOMEN ARE TREATED.

AND YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST I THINK A PERVASIVE SENSE THAT THEY ARE ATTACKED PHYSICALLY, IT'S ALMOST NEVER ABOUT THEIR WORK PRODUCT OR ABILITY TO COMPETE.

AND -- >> IS THE INTERNET FOSTERING IT MORE VIOLENCE?

>> I THINK IT IS.

I THINK IT IS BECAUSE OF THE ANONYMITY AND THE SENSE THAT YOU CAN SAY ANYTHING AND NOT HAVE TO PAY A PRICE FOR IT.

>> AND YOU THINK ABOUT BHUTTO WHO I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO INTERVIEW IN 95 SHE WAS KILLED.

AND HER FATHER, I BELIEVE, BEFORE HER HAD BEEN PRIME MINISTER AND HE WAS ASSASSINATED.

>> THAT IS RIGHT.

>> IS IT MORE AGAINST WOMEN NOW THE VIOLENCE?

>> BUT I THINK THE VIOLENCE IS MORE OF A CHILLING EFFECT IN WOMEN'S ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY SHOULD BE RUNNING.

YOU KNOW, WOMEN COME TO POLITICS LIKE THEY COME TO EVERYTHING ELSE...

THEY COME AS A MOTHER, A DAUGHTER AND A SISTER.

AND THEY COME AS A MEMBER OF A COMMUNITY.

AND THEY HAVE TREMENDOUS RESPONSIBILITIES EVERYDAY.

CARING FOR OTHER PEOPLE.

AND IF YOU ARE, I THINK MANY OF US FEEL LIKE I CAN TAKE THAT MYSELF BUT I DO NOT WANT MY DAUGHTER OR MY SON OR MY HUSBAND OR MY MOTHER OR FATHER SUBJECT TO THIS KIND OF INTIMIDATION.

SO I THINK WE DO PAUSE AT TIMES AND THINK.

AND I THINK THAT SOCIETY HAS TO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR THAT WE HAVE TO ENCOURAGE WOMEN AND THAT THIS KIND OF INTIMIDATION IS WRONG FOR A DEMOCRACY.

>> ABOUT 30 SECONDS LEFT.

>> I WANTED TO SAY BECAUSE YOU'VE LOOKED AT WHAT THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION IS DOING.

AND RELATIVE TO TRAFFICKING AND PERSONS, IVANKA TRUMP GAVE A FORMAL SPEECH AND THE PRESIDENT SAID HE IS GOING TO DO EVERYTHING POSSIBLE AND THE ISSUE OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN.

THERE HAS BEEN REGRESSION LIKE IN AFGHANISTAN WHICH IS TRAGIC.

BUT I WOULD SAY THAT THEY HAVE GIVEN VERY CLEAR STATEMENTS OF INTENT AND ALSO FORMING GROUPS IN ORDER TO IMPLEMENT AND TAKE ACTION AND SUPPORT NGO'S THAT ARE DOING GREAT WORK.

>> I THINK THE BROADER ENVIRONMENT OF HATRED CREATES THE SPECIFIC ATTACKS AGAINST WOMEN.

>> SORRY WE'RE OUT OF TIME.

THAT IS IT FOR THIS EDITION.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE, PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY, SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

[♪♪] TRANSCRIPT OR TO SEE AN ON-LINE VERSION OF THIS EPISODE OF TO THE CONTRARY VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

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