>> BONNIE ERBE: DOING SOMETHING RIGHT WHEN YOUR OPPONENTETS HAVE TO CALL IT FEMNESS.

THEY ARE A WOMAN.

THAT IS WHY WE'RE DOING SO WELL IN ELECTIONS.

WHEN A WOMAN PUTS OUT THERE THAT SHE'S FIGHTING FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS SHE DOES BETTER.

>> BONNIE ERBE: HELLO, AND WELCOME TO PBS' TO THE CONTRARY.

I'M BONNIE ERBE.

TODAY WE'RE HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH THE PRESIDENT AND CO-FOUNDER OF THE FEMINIST MAJORITY, ELEANOR SMEAL.

ELLIE, YOU HAVE BEEN IN THE WOMEN'S MOVEMENT FOR A LONG TIME.

UM, WOULD YOU SAY THAT OVERALL THERE HAS BEEN PROGRESS, IF SO, IN WHAT AREAS?

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: SPECTACULAR PROGRESS, REALLY.

WHEN I STARTED IN 1970 REALLY BEING ACTIVE AND NOW, SO IT'S A LONG TIME AGO.

WOMEN WERE SOMETHING LIKE 3% OF THE LAWYERS AND 8% OF THE DOCTOR AND MEDICAL SCHOOL AND LAW SCHOOL BUT IT IS NOT JUST THAT.

JUST INSPECT COLLEGE ITSELF.

NOW >> BONNIE ERBE: NOW THERE ARE MORE WOMEN THAN MEN.

NORINE.

NOW WE'VE GONE FROM A MAJORITY STATUS TO A MAJORITY STATUS.

TITLE IX, AND REALLY THE WHOLE WOMAN'S MOVEMENT, PUSHING EDUCATION, SAYING EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE AND A CHANGE IN ATTITUDE.

SO NOTHING IS -- YOU KNOW, A WOMAN CAN GO IN ANY FIELD AND THERE IS ENOUGH OF US IN THOSE FIELDS.

YOU DON'T FEEL LIKE A STRIPPINGER.

SO IN EDUCATION IT HAS BEEN ASTONISHING.

BUT ALSO IN EMPLOYMENT.

WE'RE VIRTUALLY HALF OF THE WORKFORCE.

WE WERE A THIRD OF THE WORKFORCE.

>> BONNIE ERBE: PAID WORKFORCE >> BONNIE ERBE: BEFORE WE GET INTO WHERE THE MOVEMENT IS AND THE GLOBALIZATION OF EVERYTHING INCLUDING THE WOMEN'S MOVEMENT, I ASKED YOU THE QUESTION OF HOW FAR WE PROGRESSED BECAUSE WE'RE IN AN ERA WHEN MOST WOMEN'S RIGHTS, ADVOCATES, YOURSELF CERTAINLY INCLUDED, SEE WOMEN AS BEING PUSHED BACKWARD BY THE WHITE HOW ELSE.

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: WELL, THERE IS A BACKLASH.

THIS HILLS NOT THE FIRST BASH LASH WE HAVE GONE THROUGH BY THE WAY.

IT HAS BEEN PERIODICALLY.

I USED TO SAY THAT RONALD REAGAN WAS A BIG RECRUITER FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS NOW WE HAVE TRUMP RECRUITING FOR US.

>> AND SUSAN FILUTI WROTE THE BOOK ABOUT REAGAN IN THE REAGAN ERA WERE CALLED BACKLASH WHICH WAS A HUGE BEST-SELLER AT THE TIME.

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME.

WE'RE IN A BACKLASH RIGHT NOW.

THEY'RE TRYING TO UNDO THE UNEMPLOYMENT LAWS, REGULATIONS, THEY'RE TRYING TO UNDERMINE TITLE IX.

THEY'RE EVEN TRYING TO UNDERMINE TITLE IX AS SEXUAL ASSAULT AND SEXUAL HARASSMENT ON CAMPUS BUT I SEE IT AS A WEAKNESS BY THE WAY.

BALLS BASICALLY IT IS A BACKLASH TO OUR FRONT LASH TO OUR FORWARD MOVEMENT AND IT HAS NEVER BEEN SUCCESSFUL AND I THINK THIS WON'T EITHER.

>> BONNIE ERBE: REALLY.

TELL ME ABOUT THE DAMAGE THAT IS BEING DONE TO WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

WHAT YOU TALKED ABOUT, FOR EXAMPLE.

I DO BELIEVE THE SECRETARY DEVAUS WAS ABLE TO RESEND THE OBAMA ERA REGULATION ON HOW COLLEGES AN SCHOOLS SHOULD DEAL WITH TITLE NINE.

BUT -- >> ELEANOR SMEAL: NOT TOTALLY.

SHE FEELS NOT ABLE TO RESEND THE WHOLE THING.

>> BONNIE ERBE: OKAY.

TELL ME ABOUT THINGS LIKE THIS.

NORITE.

RIGHT.

WHAT HAPPENED ON TITLE IX DEALING WITH SEXUAL ASSAULT AND SEXUAL HARASSMENT SHE HAD OFFERED GUIDELINES THAT COULD LESSON THE STANDARD.

MAKE IT MUCH MORE DIFFICULT FOR A WOMAN TO PURSUE A CASE.

BUT A COLLEGE COULD STILL DO FOLLOW WHAT THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION SUGGESTED AND, BY THE WAY, THEY ARE.

IT IS NOT A TOTAL PICTURE.

WHY?

BECAUSE IT IS MAN'S OF STUDENTS ITSELF.

THERE IS A HUGE WOMEN'S MOVEMENT ON CAMPUS AND THEY HAVE DEMANDED AND ARE WINNING BETTER PROCEDURES AND PRACTICES.

SO EVEN THOUGH AS I SAY, THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE IT UN-- AN UNEVEN TABLE FOR WOMEN.

THEY'RE SUGGESTING THE HARDER WAY TO GO BUT THE REALITY IS, SOME UNIVERSITIES BECAUSE OF THE DEMANDS OF THEIR STUDENTS ARE NOT TAKING THAT OPTION.

SO I FEEL WHEN THE WOMEN THEMSELVES ARE IGNITED, THEY KNOW WHAT A GOOD AND FAIR PROCEDURE IS AND THEY'RE DEMANDING THEM AND SO I THINK EVEN THERE, ALTHOUGH THEY'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GOING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION, THE ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO UNDUE, IT IS NOT WITHOUT A STRUGGLE.

>> BONNIE ERBE: LET'S TALK ABOUT WHERE THEY HAVE SUCCESSFULLY.

PLANNED PARENTHOOD.

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: WELL, AGAIN, THEY TRIED TO DEFUND PLANNED PARENTHOOD.

THEY HAVE NOT SUCCEEDED THOUGH.

>> BONNIE ERBE: IN SOME STATES.

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: IN SOME STATES THEY HAVE MADE IT VERY HARD TO ACCESS NOT ONLY TO ABORTION BUT TO BIRTH CONTROL ITSELF SO THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT THAT IS A STRUGGLE.

AND IT IS AN UNNECESSARY ONE.

THIS IS JUST INJURING YOUNG WOMEN FOR NO GOOD REASON.

BUT THERE IS CERTAINLY STILL FORWARD MOVEMENT BECAUSE MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE GALVINIZING.

PLANNED PARENTHOOD IS FROG AND IT IS GROWING BECAUSE PEOPLE PLANNED PARENT HOOD IS GROWING AND IT IS BECAUSE YOUNG WOMEN WANT ACCESS TO SEXUAL AND REPRODUCTIVE SERVES.

>> BONNIE ERBE: AND WHAT ABOUT THE CHEMICAL ABORTION REVOLUTION, TOO, HAS THAT WORKED IN YOUNG WOMEN'S FAVOR?

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: OF COURSE.

MIFEPRISTONE IS EARLY OPTION FOR ABORTION.

SOMETHING LIKE 40% ABORTIONS AT THAT EARLY STAINLESS ARE NOW PERFORMED WITH PILLS.

THAT'S NOT JUST IN THE UNITED STATES.

THAT IS WORLDWIDE.

IT WOULD BE MORE IF, IN FACT, THERE WAS NOT SO MANY ARTIFICIAL BARRIERS.

BUT THE FACT IS, IT IS AN EASIER FORM AND WOMEN ARE DEMANDING SERVICES.

>> BONNIE ERBE: ALL RIGHT.

OTHER AREAS WHERE AGAIN THE GOVERNMENT IS MAYBE HAS -- IS TRYING TO MOVE IN A DIRECTION THAT YOU SEE AS AGAINST WOMEN.

NORITE.

ONE OTHER AREA THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO MOVE BACKWARDS ON IS AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IN BOTH EDUCATION AND IN EMPLOYMENT.

AND, SO, WE HAVE A HOSTILE SUPREME COURT THAT KEEPS ON NARROWING IT.

THIS IS A VERY TROUBLESOME THING.

NOT ONLY ARE THEY TRYING TO FIGHT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, THEY'RE TRYING TO FIGHT ORGANIZING.

AND JUST REMEMBER, WHEN THEY SAY THEY'RE ATTACKING AND NARROWING THE ORGANIZING RIGHTS OF PUBLIC EMPLOYEE, THE MAJORITY OF THEM ARE WOMEN.

FOR EXAMPLE, IN TEACHING.

WHEN YOU SAY THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO ALLOW TEACHER TO SAY ORGANIZE, MAKE IT HARDER FOR THEM TO ORGANIZE, YOU'RE HURTING WOMEN.

WE'RE OVER 70% OF ELEMENTARY AND SECONDARY TEACHERS.

BUT THE EXCITING THING, BONNIE, THIS IS THE EXCITING THING, TEACHERS HAVE TAKEN IT ON THEMSELVES.

THEY HAVE ORGANIZED, RALLYING IN WEST VIRGINIA, WHOEVER THOUGHT THIS MOVEMENT WOULD START IN WEST VIRGINIA.

ARIZONA, OKLAHOMA, I MEAN, TEACHERS ARE SAYING, WE'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANY MORE BECAUSE WHEN YOU CUT US, YOU'RE CUTTING KIDS.

YOU DON'T HAVE DECENT BOOKS.

SUPPOSEDLY THE MOST ADVANCED RICHEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD AND USING 25-YEAR-OLD SCIENCE BOOKS.

TEACHERS ARE JUST ONE EXAMPLE, AFS, NEA, NATIONAL EDUCATION OF TEACHER, NATIONAL EDUCATION ASSOCIATION.

WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO DO?

GET REASONABLE PAY.

SOME OF THESE STATES THEY HAVE NOT GOT A RAISE IN 10 YEARS, FOR HEAVEN SAKES.

THEY'RE NOW ORGANIZING.

THEY JUST DIDN'T SIT AND TAKE IT BECAUSE WE'RE CALLING IT SEEING RED.

THEY'RE JUST -- THEY'RE TIRED OF IT.

THEY WANT THE KIDS TO GET A BETTER EDUCATION.

THAT MEANS YOU CANNOT KEEP ON CUTTING EDUCATIONAL FUNDING AND THEY WANT TEACHERS TO BE PAID A RESPECTEDDABLE AMOUNT.

>> BONNIE ERBE: THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT 70% OF TEACHERS ARE WOMEN.

WHAT ABOUT PUBLIC EMPLOYEES BECAUSE THEY'RE TRYING TO CUT PUBLIC EMPLOYEES UNIONS ACROSS THE BOARD.

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: SEIU.

YES.

WE'RE DISPROPORTIONATELY IN THE PUBLIC ZONE.

SO YOU'RE ATTACKING WOMEN.

AND YOU'RE ATTACKING PEOPLE WHO SERVICES WE NEED DESPERATELY.

SO WE KNOW ONE THING.

WITHOUT LABOR UNION ORGANIZING WAGES GO DOWN.

AND NOT ONLY WAGES, THE SERVES THEMSELVES GO DOWN.

SO THERE'S GOING TO BE A BIG FIGHT BACK.

THAT IS WHY I'M SAYING, THEY'RE TRYING TO PUSH US BACK BUT IT ISN'T LIKE THE PUBLIC IS GOING TO TAKE IT.

IN FACT, I THINK PEOPLE WILL ORGANIZE MORE AND MORE.

BON NOW, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE WORD FEMINISM.

IT WAS IN HUGE FAVOR IN THE EARLY DAYS OF SECOND WAVE FEMINISM.

THE 60s, THE 70S AND THE 80S AND THERE WAS AS YOU MENTIONED A BACKLASH WITH REAGAN.

BUT, ALSO, I REMEMBER RUSH LIMBAUGH, THE RIGHT-WING COMMENTATOR SAYING THAT FEMINISTS WERE FENOTIZIES AND THERE WAS A PERIOD WHEN IT WENT OUT OF FAVOR.

HAVE YOU PLAYED A PART IN BRINGING IT BECAUSE YOU RUN THE FEMINIST MAJORITY FOUNDATION.

BRINGING IT BACK INTO FAVOR BECAUSE NOW EVERYBODY -- PEOPLE ARE SELLING CLOTHES BY BEING FEMINISTS.

I MEAN, IT IS BEING USED TO SELL ALL KINDS OF PRODUCTS.

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: WE STARTED 30 YEARS AGO FEMINIST MAJORITY AND NOW WE'RE OVER 30 YEARS OLD.

WE WERE DETERMINED TO SHOW THAT WE, INDEED, WERE A MAJORITY OF WOMEN.

AND, NOW, IT IS EVERYWHERE.

AND PEOPLE AS YOU SAID, ENTERTAINERS ARE USING IT, BEYONCE, YOU KNOW, DID A WHOLE TO YOUR WITH THE WORD "FEMINIST" IN THE BACKGROUND.

BUT IT'S VERY POPULAR AMONG THE YOUNG.

BON AND THEY'RE EVEN NOW CONSERVATIVES WHO CALL THEMSELVES CONSERVATIVE FEMINISTS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT IT?

DO YOU WELCOME THEM INTO THE MOVEMENT?

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: WELL, YOU KNOW ONE THING, YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT WHEN YOUR OPPONENT HAVE TO CALL THEMSELVES BASICALLY FEMINIST.

IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT THEY'RE SAYING, THEY'RE FOR WOMEN.

AND WE'LL SEE HOW MUCH.

ALTHOUGH I THINK THAT WE HAVE SURPRISED -- IT IS ONE OF THE REASONS WE ARE DOING SO WELL IN EAGLES WHEN -- WHEN A WOMAN -- UNTIL ELECTIONS.

WHEN A WOMAN PUTS OUT THERE SHE'S FIGHTING FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS SHE DOES BETTER.

NO QUESTION.

RIGHT NOW, YOU MUST KNOW THIS, BONNIE, A RECORD NUMBER OF WOMEN ARE RUNNING.

SO WE'RE CRACKING ANOTHER GLASS CEILING, EVEN THOUGH WE DIDN'T QUITE GET THE HIGHEST OF GLASS CEILINGS THERE IS WOMAN RUNNING AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, STATE LEVEL AND CONGRESS AND EVER BEFORE.

>> BONNIE ERBE: HOW LONG DO YOU THINK IT WILL BE BEFORE -- BEFORE ANOTHER WOMAN RUNS AND GETS ELECTED?

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE SOONER THAN YOU SUSPECT.

NO ONE CAN PREDICT AN EVENT LIKE THAT.

BUT I KNOW ONE THING.

OUR NUMBERS ARE GOING UP.

THEY'RE ONLY GOING IN ONE DIRECTION.

AND WHAT REALLY SURPRISED I THINK AND EVERY ONE OF US LOOKING AT THIS IS HILLARYCLINTON LOSES.

THE REACTION WAS OVERWHELMING.

THE BIGGEST MARCHES IN THE HISTORY OF THE HUMAN RACES.

SIMULTANEOUSLY ON ONE DAY.

AS YOU KNOW, MILLIONS OF PEOPLE RAN.

WE HAD OVER 696 MARCHES IN THIS COUNTRY ALONE.

BUT IT WENT ON ALL SEVEN CONTINENTS AND WORLDWIDE.

PEOPLE SAID THAT IF SHE CAN LOSE, THE MOST QUALIFIED, AND WE SEE WHAT CAN WIN, WELL, HEY, I'M GOING TO RUN MYSELF.

IT HAD THE ABSOLUTE OPPOSITE AFFECT.

INSTEAD OF THINKING IF SHE WON MORE WOMEN WOULD BE ENCOURAGED.

ACTUALS JUST THE REVERSE.

THE ANGER PROPELLED PEOPLE INTO RUNNING.

AND FOR ALL KINDS OF OFFICES.

BON BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF WOMEN WHO HAVE ALSO WON NOMINATIONS IN -- PARTY NOMINATIONS IN SITUATIONS WHERE THEY'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO WIN THE GENERAL.

DO YOU SEE -- >> ELEANOR SMEAL: YEAH, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT, YOU CANNOT PREDICT THIS ANY MORE.

IT IS A CRAZY TIME.

WOMEN RAN ON THE DEMOCRATIST TICKET AND STRONG REPUBLICAN PLACES WHERE COMMITTEE CHAIRS WERE THERE.

THEY GOT ELECTED.

15 PEOPLE BROKE THROUGH.

11 OF THEM FEMINIST WOMEN.

AND IF YOU HAD LOOKED AND JUST TRIED TO PREDICT IT ON THE PASS, YOU NEVER WOULD HAVE PREDICTED IT.

THEY -- THEY KNOCKED ON DOORS.

THEY DID ALL THE OLD FASHION GROUND WORK AND IT MADE THE DIFFERENCE.

BUT THEY WERE PROPELLED BY THAT ENERGY OF OUTRAGE.

THEY WANT CHANGE.

AND, BY THE WAY, OUR CANDIDATES, PEOPLE -- THESE WOMEN RUNNING, THEY'RE SPECTACULAR.

THEY'RE PROFESSORS IN COLLEGES, THEY'RE WOMEN WHO HAVE DONE -- WORKED IN NON-PROFITS.

WOMEN WHO ARE VERY EDUCATED AND VERY -- A LOT OF VARIETY.

NOT JUST YOUR COOKIE CUTTER NORMAL IN THE PAST POLITICIAN, BUT PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY VERSED IN SCIENCE, MATH, IN HELPING PEOPLE.

IT'S QUITE AN EXCITING TIME.

BON SO WHICH WOMEN DO YOU SEE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT IN 2020?

KAMALA?

SENATOR HARRIS, SENATOR GILLABRAND.

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: LET'S SAY THERE IS SO MANY YOU THIS WANT TO CENTER IN ON ANY RIGHT NOW.

BON THROW SOME NAMES OUT THERE FOR ME.

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: ALL THE SENATORS ARE LOOKING AT IT OBVIOUSLY.

I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE -- BON YOU'RE SAYING ALL THE DEMOCRATIC FEMALE SENATORS.

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: YES.

THERE IS SENATORS LOOKING AT IT.

THEY'LL SOON BE GOVERNORS LOOKING AT IT.

RIGHT NOW THERE IS AT LEAST A DOZEN WOMEN THAT ARE RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.

WE HAVE STACY ABRAMS WHO COULD BE THE FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICAN GOVERNOR FROM SOUTHERN STATE, GEORGIA, OR FOR ANY STATE FOR THAT MATTER.

AND THEIR QUALIFICATIONS ARE STUNNING.

LIKE STACY ABRAMS IS JUST A STAR.

I MEAN, IN EVERYTHING THAT SHE'S DONE.

SHE NOW HAS A MASTERS IN PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION, ALL AS AND THEN IT GOES INTO LAW.

SUCCESSFUL WITH A LAW CAREER.

SUCCESSFUL IN BUSINESS.

BECOMES THE FIRST MINORITY LEADER OF THE HOUSE IN -- AS A DEMOCRAT AND IN GEORGIA.

I MEAN, THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT ORDINARY.

THESE WOMEN.

AND THEY'RE VERY SPECTACULAR.

SHE'S ONE.

THERE ARE MANY RUNNING AND WE NEVER HAD THAT MANY WOMEN RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR SO IT IS A NEW DAY.

BON YOU HAVE DONE A LOT OF WORK WITH YOUNG WOMEN.

TELL ME ABOUT AND I WONDER SOMETIMES IF THAT WAS A FACTOR IN TURNING AROUND THE VIEW -- THE PUBLIC VIEW OF THE WORD FEMINIST.

TELL ME ABOUT THE COLLEGE WORK YOU DO.

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: YEAH.

WE DECIDED WHEN WE STARTED THAT WE WERE GOING TO SPECIALIZE IN YOUTH PROGRAMS AND SO WE'RE ON SOMEWHERE AROUND 600 COLLEGES 47 STATES NOW WITH FEMINIST GROUPS.

AND WHEN WE'RE NOT THERE, OTHER GROUPS ARE THERE.

WHAT WE DID IS, WE MADE IT PALM LETTER TO ORGANIZE AMONG THE YOUNG.

WE USED TO -- PEOPLE USED TO SAY WELL, YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR DAUGHTERS.

YOU DON'T HAVE THE YOUNG.

WE KNEW YOU DID BUT WE ALSO KNEW OUR INVESTMENT WAS NOT IN VESTING ENOUGH IN IT.

SO WE SHOWED IT COULD BE DONE AND NOW MANY GROUPS ARE DOING IT WHICH IS VERY GOOD.

I MEAN, SOMETIMES ON A COLLEGE CAMPUS THERE IS FIVE OR SIX WOMEN'S GROUPS AND WE'RE IN COMMUNITY COLLEGES, STATE COLLEGES, PRIVATE UNIVERSITIES, GRADUATE STOOLS.

IT DOESN'T MATTER.

SO NOW WE HAVE BRANCHED OUT INTO HIGH SCHOOL.

AND, SO, NOW WE'RE IN HIGH SCHOOLS, WE'RE IN 32 STATES NOW IN HIGH SCHOOLS.

AND THAT MODEL WE'RE USING THERE IS HUMAN RIGHTS AND TEACHING GLOBAL WOMAN'S RIGHTS.

I MEAN, THEY'RE VERY EDUCATIONAL.

AND THEN THERE IS WOMEN'S STUDIES AND HIGH SCHOOL -- BON I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU HOW MUCH OF A ROLE WOMEN'S STUDIES WHICH STARTED WHAT IN THE 70S.

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: STARTED IN 1971 I THINK.

AND WOMEN'S STUDIES NOW IS IN ALMOST ALL THE SCHOOLS.

I MEAN, IT IS JUST UNBELIEVABLE THE NUMBER OF CHILDREN -- THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS -- I SHOULDN'T SAY CHILDREN BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE.

THAT ARE PARTICIPATING.

TENS OF THOUSANDS.

AND EVERY YEAR.

MALES AND FEMALES.

IN FACT, SOME OF OUR CAMPUS GROUPS HAVE MALE HEADS.

I MEAN, THEY'RE INTO IT.

SO BASICALLY, WOMEN'S STUDIES HAS MADE PEOPLE SEE HISTORY AND POLITICAL SCIENCE AND ENGLISH LITERATURE AND WRITING AND MEDIA.

I COULD GO THROUGH ALL THE DIFFERENT AREAS.

THEY SEE IT NOW THROUGH A DIFFERENT LENS AND I THINK IT CREATES A NEW CONFIDENCE AMONG YOUNG FEMINIST WOMEN AND MEN AND WE CAN CHANGE THE WORLD IN WHICH EVERYBODY GETS TO REACH THEIR FULL POTENTIAL.

BON DO YOU SEE BECAUSE YOU'RE SAYING THIS IS REALLY SUCCESSFUL AVENUE FOR BUILDING FEMINIST MOMENTUM, DO YOU SEE THE RIGHT-WING AS MAYBE COMING AFTER WOMEN STUDY PROGRAMS?

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: THEY HAVE BEEN COMING AFTER US.

BON THEY HAVE, HOW?

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: OH, MY GOODNESS, THE RIGHT-WING HAS COME OUT TRYING TO END WOMEN'S STUDIES, TRYING TO END BLACK STUDY, CHICANO STUDY, LGBT STUDY AND THEY'RE TRYING TO END THE FULL POTENTIAL OF HUMAN RIGHTS.

IT IS NOT SUCCESSFUL.

A CHANCELLOR CAME IN AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA SYSTEM AND TRIED TO CLOSE DOWN WOMEN'S STUDIES.

GUESS WHAT HAPPENED?

THE STUDENTS PROTESTIFIED.

IT IS MILK TRYING TO GO BACKWARDS IN SCIENCE.

ONCE YOU KNOW THAT THE WORLD IS ROUND YOU GO THE WORLD IS ROUND.

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

IT IS HARD TO UNDO IT.

BON EXCEPT THERE IS A WHOLE MOVEMENT NOW SAYING THAT SCIENCE IS INACCURATE, SCIENCE -- YOU KNOW, ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE, THAT NOT BELIEVING SCIENCE.

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: WELL, THAT'S OBVIOUSLY THE LAST -- EVERY TIME SCIENCE HAS BEEN CHALLENGED FROM AN IDIOLOGICAL .

SCIENCE WINS.

YOU KNOW THAT.

AS I SAID THE WORLD IS ROUND -- FIRST SCIENTISTS THAT SAID THE WORLD IS ROUND, OH, THE EARTH IS NOT THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE.

I MEAN, WHO WON?

I BET ON SCIENTISTS EVERY TIME.

AS YOU KNOW AND WE ALL KNOW, CLIMATE IS CHANGING.

BON NOW, SINCE YOU ORGANIZE ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES AND ACTUALLY I REMEMBER A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO YOU DID, IF NOT LAST YEAR, YOU DID AN EVENT AT THE NATIONAL PRESS CLUB ABOUT CAMPUS ASSAULT.

THAT SEEMS TO BE COLLEGE WOMEN'S BIGGEST ISSUE I WOULD THINK, RIGHT?

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: WELL, IT IS.

IT IS A SERIOUS ISSUE.

VARIOUS STATISTICS, ONE IN FIVE COLLEGE WOMEN ARE ATTACKED SEXUALLY.

NONE OF THE DATA IS REALLY COMPLETE THOUGH.

THERE IS NOT BEEN ENOUGH STUDYING OF IT.

BUT HERE IS ANOTHER AREA WHERE YOUNG WOMEN AND MEN, MOSTLY WOMEN, ARE ORGANIZING.

IT ISN'T SOMETHING THAT THEY'RE JUST TAKING.

THERE IS A WHOLE MOVEMENT ON CAMPUS THAT HAS -- FOR SURVIVORS AND PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT YET BEEN ATTACKED.

IN OTHER WORDS, PEOPLE ARE GATHERED -- WOMEN OR STUDENTS ARE NOT TAKING IT.

I THINK IT IS VERY SERIOUS AND IT HAS TO END.

AND IT IS ASHAME THAT THE BOSS ADMINISTRATION TRIES TO GO BACKWARDS.

BON YOU'RE TALKING THE SECRETARY OF EDUCATION.

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: THE SECRETARY OF EDUCATION IS TRYING TO GO BACKWARDS BUT I BELIEVE IT IS ONLY GOING TO GO IN ONE DIRECTION.

THESE ARE SERIOUS CHARGES AND IT IS NOT -- COME ON.

WHY SHOULD YOU MAKE IT EASIER TO COMMIT ASSAULT?

THIS IS JUST LUDICROUS.

BON THERE IS A BACKLASH, TOO, FROM MEN WHO FEEL THAT THEY HAVE BEEN -- WHO SAY THEY HAVE BEEN FALSELY ACCUSED.

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: NO ONE WANTS ANYBODY TO BE FALSELY ACCUSED BUT WE KNOW THAT IS A VERY TINY PART OF THE PROBLEM.

THE REAL PROBLEM IS THE ASSAULTS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

SO I BELIEVE THAT -- THAT THERE WILL BE MORE JUSTICE BUT, YOU KNOW, JUSTICE ISN'T ACHIEVED UNTIL THERE IS DEMAND.

AND THE WOMEN ARE NOT QUITTING SCHOOL.

THEY'RE DETERMINED TO STAY THERE.

THEY'RE DETERMINED TO HAVE A SAFE ENVIRONMENT AND I THINK THEY WILL -- THEY'RE RUNNING FOR STUDENT GOVERNMENT HEADS.

THEY'RE CHANGING THE PROCESS OF HOW YOU REPORT.

SCIENCE IS HELPING WITH DNA KITS AND RAPE KITS AND WAYS TO UNCOVER -- WELL, TO DISCOVER THE TRUTH.

BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS, IT'S A STATE OF MIND.

WOMEN ARE NOT TAKING IT.

THAT IS WHEN THEY'RE SAYING, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

THEY HAVE HAD IT.

AND THEY INTEND TO HAVE A MORE FRIENDLY ENVIRONMENT.

BON DO YOU SEE THE COLLEGES RESISTING OR ACQUIESCING TO TAKING IT MORE SERIOUSLY?

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: WELL, THERE IS NEVER, YOU KNOW, ALL -- THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE CHANGING AND THEY SEE THE HAND WRITING ON THE WALL.

THERE'S OTHERS WHO RESIST.

THERE IS FRATERNITIES THAT RESIST.

THERE'S, YOU KNOW, SPORTS CLUBS THAT RESIST.

BUT I THINK THE WISE ONE -- BON TELL ME ABOUT THAT HOW -- >> ELEANOR SMEAL: A LOT OF ASSAULT ON ATHLETES.

SO THEY FEEL THAT THEY ARE GOING TO ORGANIZE TO MAKE IT HARDER TO PROVE THE ASSAULTS.

BON ARE THEY THE PROBLEM -- SOMETHING SEEMS TO HAVE CHANGED ON CAMPUS.

EITHER THE ASSAULT WAS HAPPENING AT THE SAME RATE, 40, 50 YEARS AGO AND NOBODY TALKED ABOUT IT; OR, IT JUST WASN'T GOING ON AT THE SAME RATE.

WHY DO YOU THINK THERE IS SUCH A HIGH RATE OF SEXUAL ASSAULT NOT JUST ON CAMPUS REALLY BUT AMONG YOUNG WOMEN.

BY LARGELY MEN AGAINST YOUNG WOMEN?

>> ELEANOR SMEAL: THERE IS A LOT OF THEORIES.

ONE IS SINCE YOUNG WOMEN ARE NOW REPORTING YOU KNOW IT IS A PROBLEM.

WHEN IT WAS HUSHED UP IT WAS NOT THE SAME THING.

AND THERE IS MORE PEOPLE REPORTING.

THERE IS MORE PEOPLE WHO -- THEY DON'T FEEL SHAME.

THEY'RE JUST -- THEY WANT THIS PROBLEM TO END.

DO YOU REMEMBER WOMEN WERE MADE TO FEEL IT WAS THEIR FAULT.

THEY ARE NOT FOOLED ANY MORE.

THEY UNDERSTAND IT ISN'T THEIR FAULT.

SO BASICALLY I THINK PART OF IT IS JUST REPORTING IS HIGHER.

BUT PART OF IT IS ALSO THESE UNIVERSITIES HAVE BECOME SO LARGE.

AND I -- I SAY THE UNIVERSITIES ARE NOT TAKING ENOUGH RESPONSIBILITY.

THEY KNOW THINGS ARE GOING ON.

THEY HAVE TO TAKE MORE RESPONSIBILITY.

THAT IS ALL THERE IS TO IT.

THEY CAN'T JUST COLLECT, YOU KNOW, TUITION AND PRESENT EDUCATION IN THE CLASSROOM.

THEY HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE CULTURE THAT IS BEING SET.

AND FRANKLY, THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE A CULTURE THAT -- THAT HAS A HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT FOR GIRLS OR WOMEN, STUDENTS.

THEY JUST CAN'T -- THIS IS NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE.

SO I -- I THINK IT IS -- I'M HOPEFUL BECAUSE I SEE A MOVEMENT THAT I DON'T THINK IS TURNING BACK.

AND IT IS JUST.

THE WORSE THING THAT COULD HAPPEN IS WOMEN SAY, THAT'S IT.

I WON'T BE EDUCATED.

IT IS NOT SAFE.

WELL, THEY'RE NOT SAYING THAT.

NO WAY.

THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE IT SAFER.

BON THANK YOU SO MUCH, ELEANOR SMEAL, ELLIE, CO-FOUNDER OF FEMINIST FOUNDATION LONG TIME WOMEN'S RIGHTS ACTIVIST.

REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON ALL THESE ISSUES >> ELEANOR SMEAL: THANK YOU.

>> BONNIE ERBE: THAT'S IT FOR THIS EDITION.

PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY, SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

FOR A TRANSCRIPT OR SEE AN ONLINE EPISODE OF "TO THE CONTRARY," PLEASE VISIT OUR PBS WEBSITE AT: PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

>> BE