>> THE ONLY PARTY THAT IS TALKING ABOUT GOOD JOBS, GOOD JOBS FOR MIDDLE CLASS AMERICANS AND PLACING THAT AT THE CENTER ARE REPUBLICANS.

>> DO YOU THINK THE DEMOCRATS' PROBLEM WAS ONE OF MESSAGING?

OR OF NEEDING TO CHANGE THE SUBSTANTIVE POLICY STANCES?

>> IT IS A GREAT QUESTION AND AN IMPORTANT ONE.

I THINK IT WAS BOTH.

>> HELLO I'M BONNIE ERBE WELCOME TO COT CONTRARY.

THIS WEEK, THE WHITE WORKING CLASS OVERCOMING CLASS CLUELESSNESS IN AMERICA.

I'M SPEAKING WITH AUTHOR JOAN WILLIAMS SPEAKING ABOUT HER BOOK A MUST READ.

>> I'VE ADMIRED YOUR WORK FOR A LONGTIME.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

YOU WROTE THIS BOOK IN RESPONSE TO LAST YEAR'S ELECTION.

>> I DID.

>> WHY?

>> I CAME HOME FROM AN ELECTION NIGHT PARTY PANICKED AS I LOT OF PEOPLE WERE.

I HAD WRITTEN A BOOK ON CLASS IN 2010 TO CRASHING SILENCE.

AND THEN I THOUGHT YOU KNOW, I JUST HAVE TO SPEAK OUT ON THESE ISSUES.

EVERYTHING THAT I HOLD DEAR IS BEING JEOPARDIZED BY THE PROGRESSIVES' FAILURE TO UNDERSTAND AND CONNECT WITH THE WHITE WORKING CLASS.

>> PROGRESSIVES DID AFTER ALL RUN THE OCCUPY WALL STREET MOVEMENT.

WAS THAT NOT SOMETHING THAT APPEALED TO THE WHITE LOWER MIDDLE CLASS?

>> NO.

NOT REALLY.

THE WHITE WORKING CLASS BY WHICH YOU ARE RIGHT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE MIDDLE CLASS HERE, THE 53% THAT IS WHO I'M FOCUSED ON.

AND WHITES IN THE MIDDLE THEY ADMIRE THE WEALTHY QUITE A BIT.

THAT THE PEOPLE THEY RESEPTEMBER ARE PROFESSIONALS.

RESEPTEMBER ARE PROFESSOR PROFESSIONALS.

AND THE REASON THEY DO IS THE DREAM THAT REALLY CAPTURES PEOPLE WHO ARE -- HAVE BEEN ORDER TAKERS THEIR WHOLE LIFE IS TO BE ORDER GIVERS.

YOU'RE FIRED.

IT'S NOT TO BE A LAW PROFESSOR.

I MEAN I'M JUST LIKE A MARTIAN.

MY WAY OF LIFE IS SO DIFFERENT.

I'VE RUN MY LIFE COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY.

WHAT THEY WANT IS TO KEEP THE CULTURE THAT THEY GREW UP IN, PREFERABLELY IN THE AREA THAT THEY GREW UP IN AND HAVE MORE MONEY.

THAT IS WHY THEY ADMIRE THE RICH AND RESENT PROFESSIONALS.

>> AND WHAT DID DONALD TRUMP'S ELECTION DO TO WOMEN'S RIGHTS?

>> TERRIBLE.

TERRIBLE FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS AND ALL THE ISSUES I'VE WORKED FOR MY ENTIRE LIFE.

>> HOW SO?

>> WELL, I MEAN JUST IN A CONCRETE WAY, ONE OF THE THINGS THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION HAD DONE IS UPPED THE WAGES OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE TO BE PAID OVER TIME AND I AM A WORKERS' RIGHTS PERSON.

THAT WAS A VEHICLE VICTORY AND IT'S NOW GONE.

ANOTHER THING THAT THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION DID WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR IS IMPOSED FIDUCIARY OBLIGATIONS OF CARE TO FINANCIAL ADVISERS GIVING PEOPLE ADVICE FOR THEIR RETIREMENT PLANS.

THAT, TOO, IS PROBABLY GONE.

A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT I MEAN IN TERMS OF IT DOES NOT -- I DON'T THINK IT'S HELPING WOMEN TO HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO BOASTED IN PUBLIC ABOUT SEXUAL ASSAULT.

A LOT OF THE GENDER EQUALITY PROJECTS AND EVEN THE EQUALITY REGULATIONS THROUGH THE EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY COMMISSION A LOT OF THE INFORMATION TO HELP PEOPLE EXERCISE THEIR RIGHTS IS GONE FROM THE EEOC'S WEBPAGE.

THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS SETBACK FOR EVERYTHING THAT I CARE ABOUT.

>> AND WHAT IS YOUR PRESCRIPTION MOVING FORWARD?

>> I THINK THAT ELITES, ESPECIALLY I'M -- EQUALLY TRUE OF ALL ELITES, BUT I'M ESPECIALLY CONCERNED WITH PROGRESSIVE ELITES.

THE I THINK WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHERE THE WHITE WORKING CLASS IS COMING FROM AND STOP WRITING THEM OFF AS JUST RACIST, SEXIST, DEPLORABLE BENEATH OUR NOTICE.

I THINK THAT THAT IS FIRST OF ALL IT IS NOT A CLINTON PROBLEM.

BECAUSE OBAMA HAD THE SAME PROBLEM WHEN HE WROTE THESE PEOPLE OFF AS BITTER PEOPLE CLINGING TO GUNS AND RELIGION.

I THINK IT IS REALLY A FAILURE OF THE SOCIAL IMAGINATION OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN COMMITTED TO EQUALITY PROJECTS THEIR WHOLE LIVES BUT HAVE FORGOTTEN ONE OF THE IMPORTANT EQUALITY PROJECTS HAS TO DO WITH CLASS DISADVANTAGE.

AND CLASS DIFFERENCES THESE ECONOMIC DIFFERENCES ARE EXPRESSED THROUGH CULTURAL DIFFERENCES THAT IS THE WAY CLASS DIFFERENCES ARE EXPRESSED.

SO WHEN WE ASSUME AS PROGRESSIVES THAT ANYONE WHO HOLDS TRADITIONAL VALUES IS JUST IGNORANT, WHAT WE ARE DOING BASICALLY IS SAYING THESE ARE PEOPLE TO WHOM WE HAVE NOT OFFERED ELITE LIVES BUT WE WANT THEM TO BE JUST LIKE US.

THOSE OF US WHO HAVE LIVED ELITE LIVES.

THAT IS INCONSISTENT WITH OUR VALUES AND FUNDAMENTALLY BENEATH US.

>> DO YOU THINK THE DEMOCRATS' PROBLEM WAS MAINLY ONE OF MESSAGING?

OR OF NEEDING TO CHANGE THE SUBSTANTIVE POLICY STANCES?

>> THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION.

AND AN IMPORTANT ONE.

I THINK IT WAS BOTH.

I THINK AN EXAMPLE OF THE FAILURE OF MESSAGING IS TAKE THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT, OBAMACARE.

OBAMA BLESS HIS HEART COULD NOT STOP TALKING ABOUT THE INSURANCE HE WAS NEWLY GOING TO GET FOR THE 20 MILLION.

HE TALKED ABOUT IT AS A MEANS TESTED PROGRAM TARGETED ON THE POOR.

THERE IS A LONG HISTORY THAT SHOWS THAT MEANS TESTED PROBLEMS TRIGGER CLASS CONFLICT.

WHY?

BECAUSE IF YOU ARE JUST BEFORE YOU GET NOTHING.

OBAMACARE WAS ALSO A UNIVERSAL PROGRAM AND THAT IS WHAT HAD VERY BROAD APPEAL AS WE ARE NOW SEEING BECAUSE IT'S CONTROVERSIAL.

BECAUSE OF THE TWO ASPECTS OF THAT WERE UNIVERSAL.

THE PROHIBITION OF PREEXISTING CONDITION EXCLUSIONS AND KEEPING YOUR KIDS UNTIL THEY WERE AGE 26.

BOTH OF THOSE ARE VERY, VERY POPULAR.

AND SO DEMOCRATS HAD A UNIVERSAL PROGRAM THAT THEY MESSAGED AS A MEANS TESTED PROGRAM.

THERE BY MAKING OBAMACARE EXTREMELY UNPOPULAR.

AND SO THAT IS A GOOD EXAMPLE HOW DEMOCRATS HAVE DONE A POOR JOB AT MESSAGING.

BUT THEY ALSO NEED TO CHANGE WHAT THEY ARE ADVOCATING FROM A SUBSTANTIVE POINT OF VIEW.

BECAUSE YOU KNOW IT'S JUST A LITTLE CRAZY.

THE ONLY PARTY THAT IS TALKING ABOUT GOOD JOBS, GOOD JOBS FOR MIDDLE CLASS AMERICANS AND PLACING THAT AT THE CENTER ARE REPUBLICANS.

AND DEMOCRATS SHOULD BE SEEING THAT THERE'S BEEN A HOLLOWING OUT OF THE MIDDLE CLASS AND THEREFORE WE ARE GOING TO TAKE POSITIVE ACTION NOT THROUGH SOCIAL PROGRAMS NOT BY EXPANDING SOCIAL PROGRAMS BUT BY BUILDING A NEW EDUCATION TO EMPLOYMENT SYSTEM THAT IS GOING TO TRAIN PEOPLE FOR MIDDLE SKILL JOBS.

DEMOCRATS HAVE TENDED TO TALK ABOUT COLLEGE, COLLEGE, COLLEGE.

I HAVE BEEN A PROFESSOR SINCE I WAS 28 YEARS OLD.

II AM NOT AGAINST COLLEGE BUT TWO-THIRDS OF AMERICANS DO NOT HAVE COLLEGE DEGREES.

AND TO SAY TO THEM, I GUESS YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR FUTURE, WE'VE SEEN WHAT HAPPENS.

>> AREN'T THE DATA EVEN FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF PEOPLE WHO WANT A LOT OF PEOPLE TO GO TO COLLEGE AREN'T THEY WORSE THAN THAT IN THE SENSE THAT I THOUGHT IT WAS THAT ONE-THIRD OF AMERICANS START COLLEGE THAT DOES NOT MEAN THEY GET COLLEGE DEGREES IT MEANS THEY START POSSIBLY AT A COMMUNITY COLLEGE, POSSIBLY AND THEY DON'T GET THEIR TWO-YEAR DEGREES OR FOUR-YEAR DEGREES.

IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY ALL COMPLETE COLLEGE, DOES IT?

>> NO.

THE DATA POINT I HAVE IS THAT TWO CHIRDS OF AMERICANS ARE NOT COLLEGE GRADUATES.

BUT YOU ARE RIGHT.

ONE OF THE REASONS THAT WORKING CLASS KIDS DON'T GO TO COLLEGE SOME OF THEM JUST DON'T WANT TO BE PENCIL PUSHERS THAT IS NOT THEIR GOAL BUT GOING TO COLLEGE IS FAR RISKIER FROM A FINANCIAL STANDPOINT FOR A WORKING CLASS KID THAN IT IS FOR SOMEONE FROM A PROFESSIONAL FAMILY.

AND IT'S HARDER TO GET IN.

IT'S HARDER TO STAY IN.

YOU HAVE TO FACE THINGS LIKE THE WHITE TRASH BASH, IN OTHER WORDS YOU HAVE TO FACE PARTIES WHERE YOUR PEOPLE ARE CALLED GARBAGE AND A LOT END UP DROPPING OUT.

SO THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO START COLLEGE HAVE HUGE COLLEGE LOANS AND THEY DON'T GRADUATE SO THEY ARE PAYING BACK THE HUGE COLLEGE LOANS ON THE INCOME OF A HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATE OFTEN PAYING A THIRD OF THEIR INCOME FOR COLLEGE DEBT WITH NO BENEFIT.

THAT IS A RISKY PROPOSITION >> NOW, SO YOU SAY WHAT ELITES THIS IS WHAT ELITES DON'T KNOW ABOUT MIDDLE AND INCOME WHITE VOTERS WHO PRESUMABLY WENT FOR TRUMP BECAUSE HE DID WIN 53% OF THE WHITE VOTE.

SO WITH ELITES NOW KNOWING THIS LET'S SAY THEY READ YOUR BOOK AND UNDERSTAND HOW IS THAT GOING TO CHANGE THINGS?

ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO ALL OF A SUDDEN CARE ABOUT A DEMOGRAPHIC THAT THEY HAVE NOT PAID MUCH ATTENTION TO?

>> I THINK THEY SHOULD CARE.

AND I MEAN, THE BOOK IS DESIGNED FOR ANYONE WITH WHO WAS SURPRISED THAT TRUMP WON.

IT'S DESIGNED TO EXPLAIN HERE IS WHY TRUMP WON AND HERE IS WHAT WE HAVE TO DO TO TURN THAT AROUND.

AND I THINK THAT THERE IS A COUPLE THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT.

FIRST OF ALL, WHEN PROGRESSIVE ELITES HAD A VERY ROBUST COALITION WITH THE WORKING CLASS, IT'S WHEN ECONOMIC ISSUES WERE AT THE CENTER.

AND THESE ECONOMIC ISSUES NOT MINIMUM WAGE THAT IS AN ISSUE FOR THE BOTTOM 30%.

FOR THE POOR.

THEY ARE VERY IMPORTANT BUT THEY ARE A DIFFERENT GROUP.

FOR THIS MIDDLE 53% OF AMERICANS, THEY DON'T WANT SOCIAL PROGRAMS.

THEY WANT A GOOD JOB THAT YIELDS A MODEST MIDDLE CLASS STANDARD OF LIVING.

SO THE ONLY PARTY THAT IS TALKING TO THEM NOW IS THE REPUBLICANS.

LIKE WE ARE GOING TO GET YOU THOSE JOBS.

THAT IS A FICTION.

WE ARE GOING TO GET YOU THE JOBS THROUGH SUPPLY SIDE ECONOMICS WHICH IS GOING TO CREATE JOBS.

THAT IS A FICTION.

BUT WHAT DO WE SAY IN RESPONSE?

WE SAY WE DON'T LIKE DONALD TRUMP.

THAT IS NOT AN ANSWER.

WE HAVE TO BE SAYING WE HEAR YOU.

WE HEAR WHAT YOU CARE ABOUT.

AND MIDDLE INCOME PEOPLE OF ALL RACES YOU HEAR WE WANT YOU TO HAVE GOOD JOBS.

AND WE'RE GOING TO CREATE AN EDUCATION TO EMPLOYMENT SYSTEM TO TRAIN YOU.

AND IT'S GOING TO BE GOOD ARE NOT ECONOMY BECAUSE THERE IS A WELL DOCUMENTED LACK OF AMERICAN WORKERS TRAINED FOR THESE MIDDLE SKILL JOBS.

IN SOME AREAS OF THE COUNTRY NOW THE CONSTRUCTION BOOM IS BEING CONSTRAINED BY THE LACK OF PLUMBERS.

IF WE WOULD STOP TALKING ABOUT PLUMBERS AND OTHER WAYS OF INSULTING WAYS OF TALKING ABOUT IMPORTANT WORK.

MAYBE WE WOULD NOT HAVE THAT PROBLEM.

>> THERE ARE ONE OR TWO CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES THAT YOU HAVE NOT TOUCHED ON HERE WHICH IS FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A JOURNALIST WHO WATCHED TRUMP'S CANDIDACY REALLY GET ON A ROLL, HIS FIRST ISSUE WAS IMMIGRATION.

AND IT COULD BE PERCEIVED THAT MIDDLE AND LOWER MIDDLE WHITE AMERICANS SEE ALL THE ATTENTION THAT THE DEMOCRATS PAID TO DIVERSITY AND TO PEOPLE YOU KNOW PEOPLE OF COLOR, AND THEY WITHOUT MAKING THE MONEY AND WITHOUT HAVING THE COLLEGE DEGREES OR WANTING THAT AS YOU SAY, AS A LIFESTYLE WATCHING THIS WERE ANY OF THEM SAYING WHAT ABOUT ME?

DON'T I MATTER?

AND WHEN TRUMP STARTED TALKING ABOUT LIMITING IMMIGRATION, THAT IS WHAT GOT THEM TO LOOK SERIOUSLY AT DONALD TRUMP AS A CANDIDATE?

>> I THINK THERE IS CERTAINLY A LOT GOING ON HERE.

AND I DON'T APOLOGIZE FOR RACISM, SEXISM, HOMOPHOBIA FROM THE WHITE WORKING CLASS OR ANYONE ELSE.

THAT SHOULD BE VERY, VERY CLEAR.

ON THE OTHER HAND, I THINK THERE'S BEEN A VERY CONVENIENT TENDENCY ON THE PART OF WHITE ELITES TO WRITE-OFF THE ECONOMIC CONCERNS OF NONELITE WHITES ON THE GROUNDS THAT THOSE OTHER WHITES ARE RACIST.

THERE'S SOMETHING OFF THERE.

THE FACT IS THAT THE PROFESSIONAL ELITE TENDS TO THEIR SOCIAL HONOR COMES FROM MERIT.

AND SO THEY STEREOTYPE AFRICAN-AMERICANS AS LOWER IN MERIT.

THERE ARE 40 YEARS OF STUDIES THAT SHOW THAT.

MIDDLE CLASS WHITES THEY ARE SOCIAL HONOR COMES FROM SEEING THEMSELVES AS MORAL PEOPLE.

SO THEY STEREOTYPE AFRICAN-AMERICANS AS BEING LESS MORAL.

I THINK THERE'S PLENTY OF BLAME FOR RACISM TO GO AROUND IN THIS COUNTRY.

AND I THINK FOR ELITES TO DISPLACE THEIR GUILT OVER RACISM ON TO OTHER CLASS WHITES IS REALLY INAPPROPRIATE.

>> LET'S GET AWAY FROM RACISM FOR A MOMENT.

THE PROBLEMS THAT A LOT OF MIDDLE OR LOWER MIDDLE INCOME WHITES ARE HAVING GETTING AHEAD IN THE WORLD KEEPING JOBS, COMPETING AGAINST LOWER WAGE IMMIGRANT WORKERS FOR EXAMPLE IN THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY THAT YOU TALK ABOUT.

I SPEND A LOT OF TIME IN A RURAL COUNTY OUTSIDE OF WASHINGTON D.C. AND I KNOW A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE.

AND THEY FEEL LIKE THEY ARE BEING LEFT BEHIND.

AND IMMIGRANTS ARE GETTING AHEAD OF THEM.

AND THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACISM.

IT HAS TO DO WITH WHAT IS GOING ON IN THIS COUNTRY AND WHO IN CERTAIN WAYS IS GETTING PROMOTED AND WHO IN CERTAIN WAYS IS GETTING MORE JOBS AND WHO ISN'T.

>> I THINK IT'S COMPLICATED BECAUSE A LOT OF THE IMMIGRANTS TO THE UNITED STATES ARE DOING JOBS THAT NO NATIVE BORN AMERICAN WANTS TO DO.

AND I THINK THAT THAT IS OFTEN MISSED IN THE IMMIGRATION DEBATE.

I ALSO THINK, THOUGH, THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ELITES OFTEN DO NOT UNDERSTAND IS THAT WORKING CLASS WHITES ARE PROUD OF BEING AMERICANS.

AND THEY REALLY VALUE CONTINUITY AND STABILITY.

WHEREAS MORE PRIVILEGED WHITES THEY ARE NOT AS NATIONALISTIC.

EVERY SOCIAL GROUP TENDS TO STRESS THE SOCIAL CATEGORIES THAT THEY BELONG TO THAT ARE HIGH IN STATUS.

IF YOU ARE WORKING CLASS WHITE BEING AN AMERICAN IS A HIGH STATUS CATEGORY.

IF YOU ARE AT THE TOP OF THE HEAP IN THE UNITED STATES, YOU DO NOT STRESS THAT YOU ARE AMERICAN.

YOU ARE AT THE TOP OF THE HEAP AND THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE FOCUSED ON.

THE REASON IMMIGRATION RESONATES AAS AN ISSUE, THERE ARE A LOT OF THEM THAT NATIONALISM IS PART OF IT AND RACISM IS SOMETIMES PART OF IT.

IN ONE PARTICULAR RACE, ERIC CANTER IS SHOCKING DEFEAT IMMIGRATION PLAYED A CENTRAL ROLE AND IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE PURCHASE WAS, HE WAS TALKING ABOUT AMNESTY, IMMIGRATION REFORM AS ROBBING AMERICANS OF JOBS.

IF YOU DON'T PLACE AT THE CENTER THE FACT THAT MIDDLE CLASS PEOPLE WANT MIDDLE CLASS JOBS AND THIS IS A CENTRAL TENANT OF A DEMOCRATIC PARTY TO GIVE IT TO THEM, THEN THOSE ECONOMIC ANXIETIES WILL COME OUT IN UGLIER WAYS.

>> RELIGION?

HOW DOES RELIGION PLAY INTO ALL THIS?

>> I THINK UNFORTUNATELY, I AM A SAN FRANCISCO PROGRESSIVE, A BORN CARICATURE.

SO I THINK MANY IN MY CROWD JUST SEE ANYONE WHO BELIEVES IN GOD AS KIND OF INTELLECTUALLY PATHETIC.

I THINK THAT IS A WIDESPREAD FORM OF SOCIAL SNOBBERY.

AND IN MY CIRCLES, WE ARE INTO ARTIST NATIONAL COFFEE FOR RELIGION OR SEXUALITIES THAT IS AN ELITE TASTE.

YOU NEED HIGH HUMAN CAPITAL TO DO THAT.

SO IN AMONG THE PEOPLE OF MORE MODEST EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUNDS THEY DON'T VALUE NOVELTY.

THEY DON'T VALUE THAT FORM OF ACTIVE CONSTANT SELF INVENTION.

THEY VALUE STABILITY, THEY VALUE TRADITION.

THIS IS AN EXPRESSION OF THEIR PLACE IN THE SOCIAL HEIRARCHY.

AND I THINK THAT MANY WAYS UNSELF CONSCIOUSLY ELITE PEOPLE TO SAY TO UNELITE PEOPLE WE HAVE NOT GIVEN YOU ELITE LIVES BUT WE WANT YOU TO BE JUST LIKE US WITH OUR ELITE VALUES AND IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE AND IT WON'T WORK.

>> PRESIDENT TRUMP WENT VERY STRONGLY AFTER THE CHRISTIAN EVANGELICAL VOTE.

IS THIS THE GROUP WE ARE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT?

>> I'M TALKING ABOUT A BROADER GROUP.

A MUCH BROADER GROUP OF AMERICANS.

AND THIS IS NOT JUST THE WHITE MIDDLE CLASS.

THIS IS AFRICAN-AMERICANS MORE SO.

THEY HAVE A LOT OF ALLEGIANCE TO TRADITIONAL RELIGION AND TRADITIONAL GENDER ROLES AND WHAT THEY SEE ASTRA DECISIONAL FAMILY VALUES AND I THINK THAT ELITES NEED TO UNDERSTAND MORE RESPECTFULLY OF WHY ALL OF THOSE VALUES MAKE SENSE TO THOSE PEOPLE IN TERMS OF THE LIVES THEY LEAD.

RATHER THAN JUST SEEING ALL OF THOSE AS JUST A CHARACTER SOMETIMES THE BELIEFS OF INANOTHER RANT PEASANTS.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT WORKING CLASS WOMEN BEING LESS INTERESTED IN WOMEN'S EMPOWERMENT THAN AS YOU SAY, ELITES.

EXPLAIN THAT.

>> I THINK THAT WHEN HILLARY CLINTON TALKED ABOUT BREAKING THE GLASS CEILING, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

THAT MEANS THE LIKES OF US GET TO HAVE THE SAME JOBS AS OUR HUSBANDS OR MALE PARTNERS HAD.

WHY SHOULD THEY CARE IN THE MIDDLE CLASS?

THEY DON'T CARE.

THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT.

>> THEY DON'T CARE IF THEY ARE TEACHERS MAKING THE SAME WAGE AS MALE TEACHERS IF THEY WERE CONSTRUCTION, WHICH MANY WOMEN ARE TRYING TO BREAK INTO, FIRST OF ALL BEING ALLOWED TO WORK THE JOBS AND SECONDLY MAKING WHAT THE MEN MAKE WHEN THEY WORK THEM.

>> NOT SAYING THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT EQUAL PAY THEY DO.

I'M TALKING ABOUT THE GLASS CEILING METAPHOR, A METAPHOR, FOR WOMEN GETTING HIGH, ELITE PROFESSIONAL JOBS.

THAT DOES NOT CONNECT WITH WORKING CLASS WOMEN.

SEXUAL HARASSMENT MIGHT HAVE.

A LOT EXPERIENCED SEXUAL ASSAULT EVERYDAY OF THE WEEK.

I THINK THE ACCESS HOLLYWOOD TAPES REPRESENTED AN AMAZING OPPORTUNITY TO CONNECT WITH WORKING CLASS WOMEN.

BUT IT WASN'T TAKEN.

ALL WE HEARD ABOUT WAS THE GLASS CEILING.

AND SO I THINK THAT SO THAT IS ONE -- IT WAS JUST A MISSTEP, I THINK.

A DROPPED STITCH WHICH IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HOW THE AMONG PROGRESSIVES OUR FAILURE TO UNDERSTAND THESE PEOPLE IN THEIR OWN SHOES WHERE THEY ARE IS REALLY, REALLY HURTING US.

>> THERE ARE REPORTS THAT SOME YOUNG WOMEN COLLEGE EDUCATED MAINLY, I WOULD THINK, BUT ALSO REPUBLICAN WOMEN ARE EMBRACING THE TERM FEMINIST NOWADAYS.

HOW DID THAT -- WHAT ROLE DID THAT PLAY IN THE 2016 ELECTION?

>> THE ATTRACTION TO THE WORD FEMINISM WHICH HAS BEEN OFTEN HAD A FRAGILE HOLD EVEN AMONG COLLEGE EDUCATED WOMEN HAS BEEN LESS AMONG WOMEN WHO ARE NOT COLLEGE GRADUATES.

AND ONE OF THE REASONS THE BREAD WINNER HOMEMAKER FAMILY HOLDS A LOT OF ALLURE.

A LOT OF THE WOMEN HAVE PINK COLLAR LOW WAGE JOBS.

SO THEY LOOK BACK WITH YEARNING ON TO THE CONTEXT WHERE THEY HAD PARTNERS WHO HAD SOLID MIDDLE CLASS BLUE-COLLAR JOBS THAT COULD BRING THE FAMILY UP TO A SOLID MIDDLE STANDARD CLASS OF LIVING.

AND THE OTHER THING YOU OFTEN HAVE PARTICULARLY AMONG THE MIDDLE CLASS THE WAY THEY HANDLE HAVING TWO JOBS IS THEY CANNOT PAY FOR DECENT CHILDCARE SO THEY TAG TEAM.

WHERE MOM WORKS ONE SHIFT AND DAD WORKS A DIFFERENT SHIFT.

THAT IS A HARD WAY TO LIVE.

THOSE FAMILIES HAVE THREE TO SIX TIMES THE NATIONAL DIVORCE RATE.

AND EVERYBODY IS JUST STRETCHED AND EXHAUSTED AND IN THAT CONTEXT, BEING ABLE TO KEEP MOM AT HOME FULL-TIME CAN LOOK PRETTY DARNED GOOD.

>> WHAT DO YOU RECOMMEND TO DEMOCRATS THAT THEY WRAP ALL OF THIS STUFF INTO POLICY THAT IS APPEALING TO NOT JUST PROGRESSIVE ELITISTS AS YOU PUT IT IN THE BOOK BUT ALSO TO THE WHITE MIDDLE CLASS WHICH REALLY USED TO BE THE DEMOCRATIC SUPPORT GROUP.

>> YEAH.

I MEAN I THINK IF DEMOCRATS WANT AN ALLIANCE THAT INCLUDES THE WHITE WORKING CLASS, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO CENTER THE ISSUES THAT WORKING CLASS PEOPLE OF ALL RACES CARE ABOUT MOST AND THAT IS ACCESS TO GOOD JOBS.

THAT CAN ENTAIL MASSIVE NEW SUPPORT FOR COMMUNITY COLLEGES TO WORK WITH BUSINESSES, TO CREATE CERTIFICATE PROGRAMS TO TRAIN PEOPLE FOR THESE MIDDLE IMPORTANT MIDDLE SKILL JOBS.

AND BASICALLY, BRINGING SILICON VALLEY INTO THE ACT.

NOT IN FAVOR OF A GUARANTEED ANNUAL INCOME WHICH, BY THE WAY, AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN, BUT TO INVENT THE NEXT GENERATION OF BLUE-COLLAR JOBS THAT USE INTERFACES WITH TECHNOLOGY TO UPSKILL LOW WAGE JOBS, MIDDLE CLASS JOBS SO THEY CAN ALL PAY A DECENT MIDDLE CLASS WAGE.

CENTERING THAT COULD RECREATE THIS ALLIANCE WITH THE WHITE WORKING CLASS.

BUT EVEN MORE IMPORTANT, THAT IS WHAT NONELITE AMERICANS NO MATTER WHAT THEIR RACE IS, CARE ABOUT.

WHETHER THEY ARE MIDDLE CLASS, FORMERLY MIDDLE CLASS OR ALWAYS POOR.

THAT IS WHAT THEY WANT.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, AUTHOR JOAN WILLIAMS, AND THANK YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT YOUR BOOK, THE WHITE WORKING CLASS.

THAT IS IT FOR THIS EDITION OF TO THE CONTRARY.

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[♪♪]ATION.

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