>> WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE THINGS THE POLICIES OF OUR SIDE OF THE AISLE AS LONG AS I'VE BEEN HERE THEY HAVE BEEN SQUARELY TO SUPPORT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

I THINK WE DID NOT DO A GOOD JOB IN LETTING PEOPLE KNOW WHAT WE REALLY DID DO.

[♪♪] >> HELLO I'M BONNIE ERBE WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY.

THIS WEEK WE CONTINUE OUR SERIES OF INTERVIEWS WITH WOMEN THOUGHT LEADERS AND WE HAVE REPRESENTATIVE MARCIA FUDGE AN OHIO DEMOCRAT AND FORMER CHAIR OF THE CONGRESSIONAL BLACK CAUCUS.

WELCOME REPRESENTATIVE FUDGE, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

IT IS A PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

>> YOU ARE THE FORMER CHAIR OF THE CONGRESSIONAL BLACK CAUCUS.

TELL ME WHAT THE CAUCUS DOES FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND WHAT YOU DID WHEN YOU WERE CHAIR OF IT?

>> LET ME FIRST SAY THAT THE CAUCUS REPRESENTS 78 MILLION AMERICANS.

THE MAJORITY ARE AFRICAN-AMERICAN BUT NOT AFRICAN-AMERICANS.

WE HAVE REPRESENTATIVES IN OUR CAUCUS WHO HAVE DISTRICTS THAT ARE NOT MAJORITY MINORITY DISTRICTS.

SO WE PRIDE OURSELVES ON BEING WHAT WE CALL THE CONSCIENCE OF THE CONGRESS WE FIGHT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE POOR, PEOPLE WHO ARE DISADVANTAGED, PEOPLE WHO ARE UNDERSERVED NO MATTER THEIR RACE.

SO THAT IS WHAT WE DO.

THE CAUCUS NOW HAS 49 MEMBERS IT IS ONE OF THE LARGEST CAUCUSES IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

AND MY BIGGEST SOURCE OF PRIDE AS CHAIR OF THE CAUCUS WAS TO JUST HOLD EVERYBODY TOGETHER.

YOU KNOW WHEN YOU GET TO BE 49 MEMBERS EVERYBODY HAS THEIR OWN ISSUES.

BUT I WANTED US TO FOCUS ON THE ISSUES THAT ARE MOST IMPORTANT TO THE PEOPLE WE REPRESENT.

AND I THINK THAT WE DID THAT DURING THOSE TWO YEARS.

SO I'M REALLY PROUD OF THAT.

>> TELL ME YOUR BIGGEST LEGISLATIVE ACCOMPLISHMENT DURING THAT TIME.

>> THERE WERE SO MANY.

DURING MY TENURE WE MADE SURE WE COULD KEEP THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT IN PLACE.

ONE OF THE FIRST ROLES I TOOK IN THE BUILDING.

AND THEN TO BE ABLE TO COME BACK AND MAKE SURE THAT WE MAINTAINED WHAT WE HAD STARTED WHAT SIGNIFICANT.

WE DID WORK ON SYRIA, THE IRAN DEAL WAS A HUGE DEAL.

THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS, I THINK, THAT WERE IMPORTANT TO NOT JUST TO ME, BUT TO THE PEOPLE THAT I REPRESENT AS WELL.

>> NOW, OBVIOUSLY SINCE THAT TIME WE'VE GONE FROM A DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT TO A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT.

AND A PRESIDENT WHO HAS GONE AFTER A LOT OF THE PROGRAMS THAT HELP AS YOU PUT IT THE PEOPLE, THE POOR OF ALL COLORS.

HOW HAS -- HOW HAS YOUR ATTITUDE TOWARDS YOUR WORK CHANGED AND THE NEEDS OF THE CONSTITUENTS YOU REPRESENT CHANGED?

>> LET ME SAY I PRIDE MYSELF ON BEING A PATRIOT.

I LOVE MY COUNTRY.

OVER MY PRESIDENT.

I LOVE MY COUNTRY.

AND I THINK THAT ALL OF US MEMBERS OF CONGRESS HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THIS NATION.

WHEN YOU START TO DO THINGS LIKE THINKING ABOUT TAKING AWAY FUNDING FROM VETERANS FOR VETERANS HOUSING, FOR HUNGRY CHILDREN, FOR SENIOR CITIZENS, FOR THE MILITARY, THEN YOU STOP AND YOU SAY: WE ARE OBVIOUSLY NOT GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

SO OUR JOB HAS BECOME MORE DIFFICULT BECAUSE WE HAVE A ADMINISTRATION THAT BELIEVES IT IS OK TO HURT HUNGRY CHILDREN AND HURT SICK PEOPLE.

TO HURT SENIOR CITIZENS.

TO TAKE MONEY FROM EDUCATION.

TO TAKE MONEY FROM PROGRAMS THAT BENEFIT THE ENTIRE WORLD IN TERMS OF RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT.

I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO STOP AND SAY WHO ARE WE AS AMERICANS?

AND I DON'T THINK THAT THAT ANSWER IS SETTLED RIGHT NOW.

AND UNTIL IT GETS SETTLED IT IS GOING TO BE A DIFFICULT TERM FOR US, ALL OF US.

>> HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP WHEN HE TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE REPUBLICAN ATTEMPTS TO GET RID OF THE ACA AS MEAN-SPIRITED?

IN OTHER WORDS MY POINT IS HE FINDS HIMSELF AT DIFFERENT TIMES AND IN DIFFERENT MOODS ON DIFFERENT SIDES OF THE SAME ISSUE.

SO HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN HE IS WITH YOU AND WHEN HE IS AGAINST YOU?

>> I DON'T KNOW THAT WE DO, TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST.

I'VE LISTENED TO CHANGE HIS MIND ON THE SAME ISSUE THREE TIMES IN ONE DAY BUT IT SAYS TO US THAT WE HAVE LEADERSHIP THAT WE CAN'T TRUST.

WE HAVE LEADERSHIP THAT GOES WITH WHOEVER THE LAST PERSON THAT SPOKE TO THEM INSTEAD OF LEADERSHIP THAT TAKES A POSITION AND LETS THE AMERICAN PEOPLE KNOW THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE IS BEST FOR YOU AND BEST FOR THIS COUNTRY.

AND I SAY TO MY COLLEAGUES WHEN BARACK OBAMA WAS THE PRESIDENT, IF I DISAGREED WITH HIM, I TOLD HIM I DISAGREED WITH HIM.

>> WHEN DID YOU DISAGREE WITH HIM?

>> MANY TIMES, MANY TIMES.

BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE OF THE SAME PARTY SAY TO THE PRESIDENT YOU'RE WRONG.

OR MAYBE YOU NEED TO LOOK AT IT THIS WAY.

LET'S TAKE A DIFFERENT -- LET'S TAKE A STEP BACK AND LET AT WHO IS HELPS AND WHO IT HURTS.

I DO NOT THINK WE ARE THERE YET.

>> GIVE ME AN INSTANCE WHEN YOU DISAGREED WITH PRESIDENT OBAMA.

>> ONE OF THEM WAS SYRIA.

THE PRESIDENT EARLY ON WAS SERIOUSLY CONSIDERING GOING INTO SYRIA.

I WAS ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT DISAGREED AND TOLD HIM THAT.

WE HAVE HAD ISSUES WITH FOOD STAMPS.

THE WHITE HOUSE WANTED TO MAKE CHANGES TO THE WAY WE DID FOOD STAMPS AND I SAID TO THEM, IF YOU GO DOWN THIS ROAD, IT IS A SLIPPERY SLOPE.

BECAUSE NOW THEY WILL SEE THAT YOU'VE TAKEN MONEY OUT OF FOOD STAMPS SO EVERY TIME THEY COME BACK THEY WILL WANT TO TAKE IT TOO AND IT HAPPENED MORE THAN ONCE.

WE HAVE HAD OUR DIFFERENCES.

>> HOW MUCH WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE FOOD STAMP BUDGET IS NO LONGER GOING TO FOOD STAMPS?

>> WE HAVE TAKEN TRILLIONS OF DOCTORS OVER YEARS, SINCE THE BARACK OBAMA CAME INTO OFFICE.

FOR A NUMBER OF ISSUES.

WE TOOK MONEY FROM TEACHING ISSUES.

SO I MEAN, I THINK THAT PEOPLE LOOK AT SAYING WE'RE DOING GOOD OVER HERE BUT YOU CANNOT TAKE IT FROM WHAT IS DOING GOOD OVER HERE.

BUT I WOULD SAY THERE IS PROBABLY NOT ANY LEADER THAT I'VE HAD THAT I AGREED WITH 100%.

I THINK BARACK OBAMA WAS AN OUTSTANDING PRESIDENT.

DID I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING?

NO.

AND I DON'T EXPECT THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THIS PRESIDENT DOES.

BUT I ALWAYS HAD A SENSE OF COMFORT THAT HE WAS DOING WHAT HE THOUGHT WAS BEST FOR THE COUNTRY AND NOT WHAT WAS BEST FOR HIM OR HIS FRIENDS.

I ALWAYS BELIEVED THAT HE WAS DOING OR WANTED TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

I COULDN'T HAVE THAT -- DON'T HAVE THAT SAME FEELING TODAY.

>> YOU SAID HIMSELF OR HIS FRIENDS.

WHAT ABOUT PARTY?

FIRST LET ME ASK YOU IS THIS CONGRESS ONE THAT IS MORE CONCERNED ABOUT PARTISAN GAINS THAN ITS COUNTRY?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THERE IS NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

NO QUESTION.

I WISH PRESIDENT OBAMA HAD BEEN MORE CONCERNED ABOUT PARTY.

BECAUSE HAD HE BEEN WE PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN KILLED IN 10 AND IN 14.

IF HE HAD CARED MORE ABOUT PARTY THAN HE DID ABOUT POLICY.

I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO CARE ABOUT POLICY.

BUT I ALSO THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO CARE ABOUT YOUR PARTY.

BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT IS THE HEAD OF THAT PARTY.

AND SO I THINK THAT HE SHOULD HAVE DONE MORE FOR THE PARTY BUT CLEARLY HE WAS STRONG ON POLICY AND HE WAS VERY, VERY STRONG ON WHAT MOVES THE COUNTRY AND WHAT MADE THE COUNTRY BETTER.

>> SO HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE PARTISAN.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> EVEN THOUGH WHILE HE WAS PRESIDENT AND NANCY PELOSI WAS SPEAKER THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT WAS PASSED ON A COMPLETELY PARTISAN LINE VOTE NOT ONE REPUBLICAN VOTED FOR IT.

AND NOT ONE DEMOCRAT VOTED AGAINST IT.

>> LET ME TELL YOU WHY THAT WAS.

MITCH McCONNELL SAID WE ARE NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING THAT IS GOING TO BENEFIT THIS PRESIDENT.

BUT I SAT ON A COMMITTEE OF JURISDICTION AT LEAST A THIRD OF THE AMENDMENTS IN THAT BILL WERE REPUBLICAN AMENDMENTS.

IT WASN'T AS THOUGH WE DID NOT GO THROUGH REGULAR ORDER HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF HOURS OF HEARINGS.

HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF HOURS OF GOING HOME AND TALKING ABOUT IT, INCLUDING MYSELF.

THEY WERE INVOLVED.

THEY JUST DID NOT WANT TO VOTE FOR IT.

IT'S NOT THAT THEY DID NOT PUT THINGS IN THE BILL.

THEY DECIDED AS A PARTY WE ARE GOING TO TRY TO PUT EGG ON THE FACE OF THIS PRESIDENT IT WAS NOT BECAUSE IT WAS NOT GOOD.

THAT WAS A STRICTLY PARTISAN ACT ON THEIR PART NOT OURS.

>> DO YOU SEE THE PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ELECTION AND THE RISE OF NATIONALIST FORCES WHICH REALLY HAVEN'T BEEN HEARD FROM MUCH IN THE LAST 50, 60 YEARS AS ANY KIND OF FORCE WITH ANY POWER ON THE AMERICAN RIGHT, AS A REACTION AGAINST THE TWO-TERM ELECTION OF PRESIDENT OBAMA?

>> NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

I THINK THAT THAT WAS THE DETERMINING FACTOR IN THIS ELECTION.

ONE OF THE THINGS I HAVE FOUND MOO MY LIFE AND CAREER IS THAT HATE NEEDS A FOCUS.

WE HAVE HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WERE FULL OF HATE AND ANGER FOR A LONGTIME.

AND NEVER KNEW WHO THEY HATED OR WHO THEY WERE ANGRY AT.

AND SO WHAT TRUMP AND OTHERS HAVE DONE IS MADE BARACK OBAMA THE FOCUS OF THEIR HATE AND THE FOCUS OF THEIR ANGER.

SO HE RAN THE MOST DIVISIVE CAMPAIGN PROBABLY SINCE BARRY GOLDWATER.

HE DID IT KNOWING THAT THERE WAS A RISE IN TENSION AND A RISE IN RACIAL TENSION IN THE COUNTRY AND HE PLAYED ON IT VERY, VERY WELL.

THE FIRST THING HE TALKS ABOUT IMMIGRANTS SENDING US THEIR RAPISTS AND MURDERERS BUT HE MADE PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA THE FOCUS OF IT ALL.

EVERYTHING THAT WAS BAD IN THIS COUNTRY, OBAMA DID IT AND HE IS DOING IT TODAY.

THIS ISSUE RIGHT NOW ABOUT THIS VETERAN THAT WAS KILLED, LE DAVID, HE STARTED OUT THE FIRST THING HE SAID IS BARACK OBAMA DID NOT CALL OF THE FAMILIES OF FALLEN SOLDIERS, I HAVE.

EVERYTHING IS BARACK OBAMA.

HE IS OBSESSED WITH HIS HATRED OF BARACK OBAMA.

AND IT IS SO SAD.

BECAUSE IT'S TAKING THIS COUNTRITH A PLACE WHERE WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO GO.

BARACK OBAMA IS GONE.

CREATE YOUR OWN LEGACY.

SHOW US WHAT YOU CAN DO.

DON'T JUST DESTROY FIND A WAY TO BUILDUP AND REPRESENT EVERY AMERICAN NOT JUST THE ONES THAT HATE THE SAME PEOPLE THAT YOU HATE.

>> HE SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN GUIDED IF NOT BY GENERAL KELLY AS THE CHIEF OF STAFF BY OTHERS WHO WERE PRESIDENT IN THE -- PRESENT IN THE EARLIER ADMINISTRATION BUT ARE GONE, HE SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN GUIDED AWAY FROM THE EXTREME AND NO, YOU DON'T AGREE WITH THAT?

>> NO.

I MEAN, GU OUT AND YOU CALL THE HEAD OF ANOTHER COUNTRY ROCKET MAN?

YOU TALK ABOUT YOU ARE GOING TO DESTROY THE IRAN DEAL?

THE ONLY THING KEEPING THEM FROM A NUCLEAR WEAPON?

YOU WANT TO TRADE UP EVERY TRADE AGREEMENT?

YOU WANT TO DESTROY EVERYTHING THAT IS DONE?

I DO NOT THINK THAT IS REASONABLE.

I THINK THAT IS -- I DON'T WANT TO GIVE HIM WHAT I MIGHT CALL MY OWN IDEA OF HOW SICK HE IS.

I THINK HE IS A SICK MAN BUT BECAUSE I'M NOT A DOCTOR I DO NOT WANT TO SAY GIVE HIM A PROGNOSIS BUT I DO BELIEVE THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH A PERSON WHO ONLY WANTS TO DESTROY AND I DO NOT THINK THAT IS GOOD FOR THIS COUNTRY.

I HAVE BEEN FORTUNATE TO TRAVEL OUTSIDE OF THIS COUNTRY AND OTHER COUNTRIES ARE AFRAID BECAUSE THEY THINK WE HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO IS NOT RATIONAL AND ONE WE CANNOT TRUST.

AND WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT THE GREATEST NATION IN THE WORLD.

>> DO YOU THINK OUR REPUTATION IS CRUMBLING?

>> THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT IT IS.

>> HOW?

>> LOOK AT HIS SPEECH WHEN HE GOES TO THE U.N.

MOST NATIONS DO NOT BELIEVE IF WE GET INTO A WAR THAT THE UNITED STATES WILL PROTECT THEM.

THEY BELIEVE WE HAVE BECOME ISOLATIONIST, THEY BELIEVE WE DO NOT CARE ABOUT OTHER COUNTRIES AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT NOT ONLY DO I THINK THAT, JOHN McCAIN SAID IT.

PRESIDENT BUSH SAID IT, BARACK OBAMA SAID IT.

NATION LEADERS HAVE SAID IT.

AND WORLD LEADERS HAVE SAID IT.

IT'S NOT JUST MY THINKING.

THEY BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE BECOME ONLY AMERICA NOT AMERICA FIRST BUT ONLY AMERICA.

WE HAVE A STANDING IN THE WORLD IF WE WANT TO BE THE LEADERS OF THE WORLD THERE IS RESPONSIBILITY THAT COMES WITH IT.

AND WE NEED TO TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY IF WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO LEAD.

AND IF WE DON'T, THEN FINE.

>> WHAT ROLE DO YOU THINK DEMOCRATS PLAYED IN GETTING PRESIDENT TRUMP ELECTED?

IN OTHER WORDS, I RECALL WHEN SPEAKER PELOSI WAS SPEAKER AND SHE PUSHED THE ACA THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, SHE PUSHED FINANCIAL REFORM FOR CONSUMERS, SHE PUSHED ONE OR TWO OTHER MAJOR PIECES OF LEGISLATION, I GUESS IT WAS PART OF THE TARP OR THE FEDERAL BAILOUT AFTER THE ECONOMIC COLLAPSE OF 2008-2009.

SHE PUSHED A NUMBER OF MAJOR PIECES OF LEGISLATION WITHOUT MUCH REPUBLICAN SUPPORT.

DID THAT TRIGGER THE BACKLASH THAT CREATED AN OPENING FOR SOMEBODY LIKE DONALD TRUMP TO BECOME PRESIDENT?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

MOST AMERICANS DO NOT KNOW WHAT WE DO.

THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WE PASS AND DON'T PASS.

WHAT THEY KNOW IS WHAT THEY FEEL.

THEIR PERCEPTIONS BECOME THEIR REALITIES.

I THINK DEMOCRATS PROBABLY DID NOT EXPLAIN ENOUGH OF WHAT WE DID.

TARP WAS DONE AT THE REQUEST OF GEORGE BUSH.

THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY SAVED THE NATION BY SUPPORTING TARP WHEN HIS OWN PEOPLE WOULDN'T.

THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT NOW HAS PUT 20 MILLION MORE AMERICANS IN TO HEALTH INSURANCE.

THAT CANNOT BE A BAD THING.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE THINGS THE POLICIES OF OUR SIDE OF THE AISLE AT LEAST AS LONG AS I HAVE BEEN HERE THEY HAVE BEEN SQUARELY TO SUPPORT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

I THINK WE DID NOT DO A GOOD JOB AT LETTING PEOPLE KNOW WHAT WE REALLY DID DO.

IT'S EASY WHEN YOU ARE THE OPPOSITION PARTY TO SAY NO, NO, NO, NO DOES NOT REQUIRE AN EXPLANATION.

ACTION REQUIRES AN EXPLANATION AND I THINK WE DIDN'T DO A GOOD JOB OF EXPLAINING IT TO PEOPLE.

>> SO YOU THINK ALL THE DEMOCRATS HAVE TO DO TO CLEAN UP THE SUCCESSION NOW OF LOSSES IS TO CHANGE THEIR MESSAGE AS OPPOSED TO CHANGING POSITION ON POLICY?

>> NO.

AND I CLEARLY DID NOT SAY THAT.

I SAID TO YOU THAT WE DID NOT DO A GOOD JOB TELLING PEOPLE WHAT WE HAVE DONE.

AS MUCH AS THE HATE FOR BARACK OBAMA IS HATE FOR WOMEN IN THE LAST ELECTION.

MY SONG ANY PLAYED -- MA THAT IS NOT A MANDATE BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION.

I THINK ONCE WE START TO TALK TO PEOPLE ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE UNDERSTAND WHAT THEIR FEARS AND AND START TO LISTEN TO PEOPLE TELL US WHY THEY DIDN'T VOTE OUR WAY INSTEAD OF TRYING TO TELL THEM WHY.

ONCE THEY REALIZE THAT WE ARE TRULY A PARTY THAT IS A PARTY OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE WANT TO DO BETTER, THAT WE WANT FOR THEM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WE DO AND WE CLEARLY CARE ABOUT WHAT THEY THINK, I KNOW PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP.

AND I UNDERSTAND WHY SOME OF THEM DID.

I DON'T HATE THEM.

I THINK THAT WHAT WE NEED TO DO AS A PARTY IS TO PULL THOSE PEOPLE IN TO MAKE CLEAR TO US WHAT THEIR MOTIVATIONS WERE.

AND I DON'T THINK WE HAVE DONE THAT.

>> ISN'T IT OBVIOUS THEY WERE -- THEIR MOTIVATIONS WERE THEY WANTED A SHAKE UP, THEY WERE SICK OF BUSINESS AS USUAL.

A LOT WANTED JOBS.

A LOT OF THEM WERE LONG-TERM UNEMPLOYED WHO DO NOT FIGURE IN THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR DATA THAT COMES OUT ABOUT UNEMPLOYMENT, 60-YEAR-OLD WHITE MEN IN MICHIGAN WHO EARNED A GOOD LIVING FOR THEIR FAMILIES AS FACTORY WORKERS, AS DETROIT CAR MANUFACTURERS THAT IS A -- >> THE AVERAGE VOTER FOR DONALD TRUMP MAKES $70,000 A YEAR.

70.

POOR PEOPLE VOTED FOR HILLARY CLINTON.

LOOK AT THE DATA.

POOR PEOPLE DID NOT VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP.

UNION WORKERS VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP THEY MAKE $30 AN HOUR.

>> WHEN THEY ARE WORKING.

A LOT WERE OUT OF WORK.

>> NO THEY WERE NOT OUT OF THE WORK.

I WANT YOU TO LOOK AT THE DATA OF THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP.

PEOPLE WHO WERE OUT OF WORK VOTED FOR HILLARY CLINTON.

JUST NO IF'S AND'S BUT'S ABOUT IT.

>> COAL WORKERS DID NOT VOTE FOR HILLARY CLINTON.

>> THEY DID NOT BUT THEY WERE WORKING.

COAL WORKERS VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP BECAUSE HILLARY CLINTON WANTED TO CHANGE THE WAY WE GET ENERGY IN THIS COUNTRY.

COAL MINING I HAVE A LOT OF FRIENDS -- >> SHE ALSO MADE A BIG MISTAKE WHEN SHE SLIPPED AND SAID WE WANT TO PUT COAL MINERS OUT OF WORK INSTEAD OF SAYING WE WANT TO RETRAIN THEM FOR LESS DANGEROUS HIGHER PAYING JOBS.

>> I AGREE.

I DO NOT DISAGREE WITH THAT BUT THEY WERE TRYING TO SAVE THEIR JOBS.

>> YOU BLAMED WHAT IS GOING ON IN THIS COUNTRY CULTURALLY ON MASSAGEMY SANDALING MISOGYNY.

>> I SAID THIS IN 2008.

I SAID THIS COUNTRY IS MORE SEXIST THAN IT IS RACIST.

HILLARY CLINTON AND I DON'T KNOW THAT ANYBODY CAN ARGUE THIS -- WOULD ARGUABLY HAVE BEEN THE MOST QUALIFIED PERSON TO EVER TAKE THE PRESIDENCY OF THE UNITED STATES.

PEOPLE CAME UP WITH I DON'T LIKE HER, I DON'T LIKE HER HAIR.

I DON'T LIKE WHAT SHE WEARS.

I WORK WITH PEOPLE EVERYDAY THAT I DON'T LIKE THEIR HAIR BUT I WOULD NOT, NOT VOTE FOR THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE MALE BUT WE DO IT TO WOMEN.

>> AND LOOK AT THE GUY WE ELECTED AND WHAT HE THINKS OF WOMEN.

>> WHAT HE THINKS OF WOMEN.

BUT CAN YOU IMAGINE THE THINGS HE HAS SAID ABOUT WOMEN THAT HE COULD STILL GET ELECTED IN THIS COUNTRY?

I KNOW PEOPLE WHO SAID THE COUNTRY IS NOT READY FOR A WOMAN PRESIDENT.

NOT SOMETHING I'M MAKING UP.

THEY DID NOT WANT A WOMAN PRESIDENT.

THE ATTACKS THAT HILLARY CLINTON WITHSTOOD FOR A YEAR-AND-A-HALF I DON'T KNOW ANY MAN THAT COULD HAVE WITHSTOOD THEM.

WHEN YOU HAVE A JAMES COMEY COME OUT AND SAY WE ARE INVESTIGATING HILLARY CLINTON BUT WILL NOT COME OUT AND SAY WE'RE INVESTIGATING DONALD TRUMP AT THE SAME TIME THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT WHO WE ARE AS A NATION THAT WE WOULD ELECT SOMEBODY THAT HAS ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS BEING THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

I UNDERSTAND PEOPLE WANT TO SHAKE IT UP.

>> AND YET, IT'S HARD TO TEASE OUT WHY SHE LOST.

OF COURSE TO MENTION THAT SHE WON THE POPULAR VOTE BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE SAID THE PARTY SHOULD NEVER HAVE NOMINATED HER THERE WAS WAY TOO MUCH BAGGAGE AND SHE DOESN'T HAVE WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD CALL A LIKABLE PERSONALITY.

SHE TALKED ABOUT IT IN HER BOOK.

>> THEY DID NOT SAY IT ABOUT JEB BUSH AND THERE HAD BEEN TWO BUSH PRESIDENTS.

HOW MUCH BAGGAGE DO THEY CARRY?

WE HAVE HAD ONE CLINTON PRESIDENT AND TWO BUSHES.

THEY DID NOT SAY IT ABOUT DONALD TRUMP.

THEY DID NOT SAY IT ABOUT ANY OF THE MEN WHO WERE NOMINATED.

NOTHING.

ONLY ABOUT THE ONLY WOMAN.

>> DO YOU THINK ENOUGH IS BEING DONE TO FIGHT SEXISM IS WORSE THAN RACISM?

FIRST OF ALL, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

>> WELL -- >> BLACK MALE WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT AND A WHITE FEMALE WAS NOT?

>> PARTIALLY, YES.

BECAUSE THAT WHITE FEMALE HAD MORE EXPOSURE AND MORE CREDIBILITY, A LOT MORE MONEY, ALL OF THE THINGS THAT NORMALLY WOULD GUIDE A RACE.

I AM AM I HAPPY THAT BARACK OBAMA WAS ELECTED?

ABSOLUTELY.

BUT I'M TELLING YOU WHAT I SAW AND THAT IS THE REALITY OF IT.

THAT IS THE TRUTH.

PEOPLE WANT TO ARGUE IT BUT WHEN YOU ASK THEM FACE-TO-FACE, THEY NORMALLY WILL TELL YOU THE TRUTH AND A LOT OF THEM JUST DID NOT LIKE HER BECAUSE SHE WAS A WOMAN AND SHE WAS A STRONG WOMAN NOT A WEAK WOMAN, A STRONG ONE.

>> HOW DO YOU THINK WOMEN HAVE TO OVERCOME THAT STIGMA.

>> I THINK THE FIRST THING WOMEN HAVE TO DO IS SUPPORT OTHER WOMEN.

THAT IS A BIG PART OF IT.

59% OF WHITE WOMEN VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP AFTER HE TALKED ABOUT GRABBING THEIR GENITALIA AND TALKED ABOUT THEM AS IF THEY WERE PIECES OF BOOKS ON A TABLE.

LIKE CHATTLE.

I CANNOT GET TO THAT.

I CANNOT DO THAT.

BUT BLACK WOMEN ON THE OTHER HAND SAW WHAT WAS GOING ON AND WE VOTED ALMOST 90% FOR A WOMAN.

SO WE HAVE TO START TO SUPPORT EACH OTHER.

WE HAVE TO START TO FEEL GOOD ABOUT WHAT WE ARE AS WOMEN.

>> THERE ARE A LOT OF WOMEN REPUBLICANS RAISED IN REPUBLICAN HOMES AND THEY, I SAW AN INTERESTING SURVEY SOMETHING LIKE 30 OR 40% OF DEMOCRATIC WOMEN TOLD POLLSTERS THAT THEY THINK THINGS ARE RELATIVELY GOOD IN THE COUNTRY BUT 59% OF REPUBLICAN WOMEN SAID THE SAME THING MEANING THEY SEE THEMSELVES AS YOU KNOW, REPUBLICAN WOMEN MANY OF WHOM ARE YOU KNOW, ARE WHITE MOST OF WHOM ARE WHITE.

OBVIOUSLY THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS MUCH MORE DIVERSE THEY DO NOT FEEL THEY NEED HELP FROM THE GOVERNMENT THEY FEEL THAT WOMEN HAVE ARRIVED.

>> WELL, I WOULD TELL THEM TO COME TO MY NEIGHBORHOOD SO I CAN SHOW THEM THE WOMEN THAT HAVEN'T.

THE SAME PEOPLE WHO FIGHT ABORTION ARE THE PEOPLE THAT CAN AFFORD TO GO OUT AND GET ONE IF WAY WANTED.

THE SAME PEOPLE THAT DO NOT WORRY ABOUT A HUNGRY BECAUSE THERE ARE CHILDREN ARE NOT HUNGRY.

LET ME SHOW THEM WHAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN DO.

NO, THEY WANT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WHEN IT'S ABOUT BUSINESS IF THEY WORK FOR ONE OF THE OIL COMPANIES THEY WANT TO GET A SUBSIDY FOR THEIR OIL COMPANIES.

THEY ARE THE ONES WHO WANT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO DO AWAY WITH THE ESTATE TAX.

THEY ARE THE SAME ONES WHO BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD GIVE THEM CONTRACTS.

THAT IS THE KIND OF GOVERNMENT INFLUENCE THEY WANT.

WHAT THEY DON'T WANT IS THE GOVERNMENT TO HELP PEOPLE WHO THEY BELIEVE ARE UNDESERVING.

AND MANY OF THE PEOPLE ARE NOT UNDESERVING.

BUT THAT IS WHAT THEY THINK BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP IN A MINDSET THAT IF YOU CANNOT MAKE IT IN AMERICA THAT YOU ARE LAZY AND WORTHLESS.

SO I WANT TO SHOW THEM, COME WITH ME SOMETIME I WILL SHOW THEM THE DIFFERENCE.

>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR THIS EDITION OF TO THE CONTRARY.

VISIT OUR WEBSITE AND OUR Facebook PAGE AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK "TO THE CONTRARY" CONTRARY, PLEASE J J J JOIOIOIOIOINNNN FOR A TRANSCRIPT OR TO SEE AN ON-LINE VERSION OF THIS EPISODE OF TO THE CONTRARY VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

[♪♪]