>> BONNIE: THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY.

>> A HISTORIC NUMBER OF DOUBLE X CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.

THEN THE EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT MAY NOT BE DEAD.

BEHIND THE HEADLINES: SHOULD YOUNG WOMEN BE DRAFTED?

>> BONNIE: HELLO, I'M BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY, A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST.

#WOMEN2020.

>> SOME OF THE EARLIEST ENTRANTS INTO THE 2020 DEMOCRATIC RACE FOR THE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINATION ARE WOMEN.

MORE THAN HALF OF THE CANDIDATES THAT HAVE ANNOUNCED THUS FAR ARE FEMALE.

THEY INCLUDE SENATORS: THEY INCLUDE SENATORS ELIZABETH WARREN OF MASSACHUSETTS, KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND OF NEW YORK AND KAMALA HARRIS FROM CALIFORNIA.

LESS WELL KNOWN ARE: ARE REPRESENTATIVE TULSI GABBARD AND BEST SELLING AUTHOR AND LECTURER MARIANNE WILLIAMSON.

HARRIS IS GARNERING THE MOST ATTENTION HELPING TO FRAME THE DEBATE AND MEDICARE FOR ALL, ANTIPOVERTY POLITICS, FREE COLLEGE AND MORE.

SOME EXPERTS SAY THE EARLY DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES ARE TOO FAR LEFT LEANING EVEN PROMPTING FORMER STARBUCKS CEO, HOWARD SCHULTZ, TO SAY HE'S CONSIDERING RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT AS AN INDEPENDENT BECAUSE OF THAT PROGRESSIVE TURN.

SO CONGRESSWOMAN, ELEANOR NORTON, WHAT ROLE WILL WOMEN PLAY RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT IN 2020?

>> BECAUSE THERE IS SO MANY OF THEM.

>> DEPENDS ON THE WOMAN.

IF THERE IS A CENTRIX MODERATE CANDIDATE TO EMERGE THEY'LL PLAY A VERY BIG ROLE.

>> I JUST THINK FOR THE FIRST TIME WE'RE GOING TO GET TO SEE A VARIETY OF PERSPECTIVES AN EXPERIENCES AND IT WILL BE VERY DIFFICULT TO STEREOTYPE ANY ONE OF THEM.

>> I THINK BREAKING OUT OF THE MOLD OF GENDER BEING AN INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT CHARACTERISTIC AND AT THIS POINT JUST ANOTHER ATTRIBUTE TO ANOTHER CANDIDATE.

>> BONNIE: DO YOU THINK THAT WE'RE AT THAT POINT YET?

>> I THINK THAT IF WE HAVE THIS MANY WOMEN RUNNING AND IF THEY'RE WILLING TO RIDE IT OUT, I THINK IT COULD MAKE A LOT OF PROGRESS IN THAT RESPECT.

>> BONNIE: WE'VE ALREADY SEEN THE SEMI- IMPLOSION OF TULSI GABERT'S CAMPAIGN, HOW LONG DO WE THINK THE WOMEN ARE GOING TO LAST AND HOW MANY ARE GOING TO MAKE IT UP TO THE LAST PRIMARIES?

>> LET'S SEE HOW MANY OF THEM CAN RAISE MONEY.

THAT IS REALLY ALL THAT COUNTS.

SO I PREDICT THAT THERE WILL BE MORE SHRINKAGE THAN WE MIGHT ADVANTAGE, POPULARITY WON'T COUNT NEARLY AS MUCH.

NOW YOU SEE TAMALA HARRIS GOING FIRST BECAUSE PRIMARY AND FOR THE FIRST TIME EARLY IN CALIFORNIA AND THAT GIVES HER A LEG UP BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF MONEY OUT THERE T BUT THE OTHERS WILL HAVE A HARDER TIME.

>> BONNIE: AND ALL THREE OF THEM, BY THE WAY, ALL THREE OF THOSE SENATORS HAVE REFUSED CORPORATE ARE SAYING THEY WILL NOT TAKE CORPORATE MONEY.

AND THEY'RE BUILDING BIG INTERNET FOLLOWINGS SO THAT THEY CAN JUST PUT THE WORD OUT.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE INTERNET AND RAISING MONEY AND PRESIDENTIAL POLITICS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR A WHILE NOW.

BUT THIS MIGHT BE THE YEAR WHERE THEY RAISE MORE MONEY FROM -- FROM, YOU KNOW, ONLINE DONORS IN SMALL AMOUNTS THAN THEY DO FROM CORPORATIONS.

>> WELL, THAT MIGHT BE.

BUT MONEY STILL IS IMPORTANT AND DONALD TRUMP HAS AN ABSOLUTELY ENORMOUS ADVANTAGE IN THE MONEY HE'S ALREADY RAISED.

MORE IMPORTANTLY THE SAME ADVANTAGE AS HE HAD IN 2016, WHICH IS NAME RECOGNITION.

MOST OF THE PEOPLE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, MEN AND WOMEN IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WITH THE EXCEPTION OF JOE BIDEN ARE UNKNOWN QUANTITIES.

THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THEM.

AND HOW ONE OF THEM IS GOING TO BREAK THROUGH THE PACK AND EMERGE IN A WAY THAT GIVES THEM CREDIBILITY YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT RELATIVELY JUNIOR LEGISLATORS MOSTLY.

YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT GOVERNORS.

YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD A BIG EXECUTIVE ROLE AND -- >> BONNIE: YOU AND I REMEMBER A TIME WHEN YOU COULDN'T RUN IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE GOVERNOR IN YOUR PEDIGREE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> BONNIE: NOW THEY'RE ALL SENATORS RUNNING AND THEY'RE NOT THIS.

THEY'RE NOT THAT.

YOU DESCRIBE BARACK OBAMA TO A TEE.

>> SOME OF US WERE NOT REALLY PLEASED THAT A FIRST TERM SENATOR BECAME PRESIDENT AND THOUGHT HE WAS INEXPERIENCED IN THE JOB AND SOME OF US ALSO BELIEVED THAT HIS PRESIDENCY WAS PARTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE TRUMP PHENOMENA.

NOT ALL OF US EVEN THOSE OF US WHO DON'T LIKE TRUMP ARE ALL THAT LOOKING BACK NOSTALGICALLY AT BARACK OBAMA.

>> LET ME JUST BUILD ON THAT.

ONE.

THINGS I DON'T THINK DEMOCRATS REALIZE HISTORICALLY SPEAKING A BATTLED ENBENT RARELY WINS RE-ELECTION.

WHETHER WE TALK ABOUT RONALD REAGAN IN 1984, AFTER 1982 THAT WAS NOT SO CERTAIN.

OR YOU'RE LOOKING AT BILL CLINTON IN 1996 AND GEORGE W. BUSH 2004 OR BARACK OBAMA IN 2012.

THE ENBATTLED INCUMBENTS TYPICALLY WIN.

>> BONNIE: MOST SEE THIS AS EXTREMELY ABORANT PRESIDENCY.

THERE HAS NOT BEEN THAT BEFORE.

THE GUY IS SO UNSTABLE AND -- >> BUT IF HE HAS NO COMPETITION AND THERE IS ESSENTIALLY -- >> BONNIE: THERE MAY BE SENATOR FLAKE -- >> YOU HAVE DEMOCRATS BEATING EACH OTHER UP ON THE TRAIL THERE IS A REAL QUESTION ON THE MONEY SIDE AND ON THE REPUTATIONAL SIDE AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THE DEMOCRATS WILL BE ABLE TO KIND OF OVERCOME THE HURDLE OF A ROSE GARDEN STRATEGY.

>> AND YOU CAN'T BEAT SOMEBODY WITH NOBODY.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

>> BONNIE: BUT THAT SOMEBODY WHEN THEY FINALLY GET THE NOMINATION WILL BE A HOUSEHOLD NAME AT THAT TIME.

I DON'T THINK THAT WE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT.

BUT I WORRY ABOUT DEMOCRATS GOING OFF THE LEFT CLIFF.

AND DO YOU SEE THAT HAPPENING -- AND THAT IS NOT GOING TO APPEAL TO MAINSTREAM AMERICA AT ALL.

THAT IS WHY HOWARD SCHULTZ WAS TOYING WITH THE IDEA OF JUMPING IN.

>> I SEE IT AS A DISADVANTAGE FOR THE GENERAL ELECTION AND IN TRYING TO OUTDUE ONE ANOTHER.

FOR EXAMPLE, USING WHAT AMOUNTS TO A SLOGAN.

MEDICARE FOR ALL.

WELL, I CAN TELL -- I CAN GIVE YOU HALF A DOZEN VARIETIES OF MEDICARE FOR ALL.

I HOPE THAT WE BREAK THAT DOWN SO THAT WE DON'T JUST HAND WE, WHO ARE DEMOCRATS, DON'T JUST HAND THE REPUBLICANS A -- NOT TALKING POINT -- BUT PERHAPS A -- >> BONNIE: A WEAPON.

>> YES.

THAT IS THE WORD.

>> I THINK MORE CONCERNING FOR MEDICARE FOR ALL WHICH THE CENTER VALUED AT 32.6 TRILLION YARDS IS GREAT NEW DEAL EVERYBODY IS LINING UP BLIND.

ELIZABETH WARREN CALLED IT.

CORTÉÉS HAS CALLED FOR IT.

>> BONNIE: SHE'S NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.

>> HARRIS CALLED FOR IT AND IT WOULD COMBAT CLIMATE CHANGE AND COMBAT GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS AND BAN CAP AND TRADE AND MANDATE FEDERAL JOBS GUARANTEE.

VALUED AT $49.1 TRILLION.

>> BONNIE: WHAT ABOUT FREE COLLEGE?

>> FREE COLLEGE WOULD BE HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS.

ELIZABETH WARREN WEALTH TAX IN THE FIRST DECADE ALONE IT WOULD BE A ONE TIME PAYMENT OF UNDER $3 TRILLION.

YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT ALL THAT WEALTH WOULD STAY IN THE U.S.?

YOU WOULD NOT.

YOU HAVE THE SAME PHENOMENA OF FRANCE OF PEOPLE IMMIGRANTING FROM THE COUNTRY.

WE HAVE THAT IN CALIFORNIA AND NEW YORK.

I THINK FOR INSTANCE SOMEONE LIKE AIMEE CLOVACHAR AND DEFINE THE RACE AND SAY THAT A DEMOCRAT CAN JUST BE A TO THE INSANITY AND BELLS AND WHISTLES OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SHE COULD HAVE A REAL SHOT.

>> BONNIE: WE WILL BE WATCHING IT.

PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND@BONNIEERBE@TOTHECONTRARY.

>> THE ERA IS ONE STATE WAY FROM RATIFICATION.

>> WE STARTED THAT IN 2009.

THEY WOULD LAUGH IN MY FACE AND SAY IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN IT IS DEAD, DEAD, DEAD.

CUT TO 10 YEARS LATER, TWO AND A HALF STATES LATER, ABOUT TO GET THIS JOB DONE.

>> IN 1972, CONGRESS PASSED THE ERA AND SENT IT TO THE STATEMENTS BY 2017, 35 OUT OF THE NECESSARY 38 STATES HAD RATIFIED THE ERA AND NEVADA AND ILLINOIS JOINED.

THE MEASURE REMAINS STUCK IN THE VIRGINIA LEGISLATURE.

>>IT IS NOT DEAD IN VIRGINIA.

BECAUSE WE HAVE THE VOTES.

ALL WE NEED IS TO PRESSURE THE HOUSE OF DELEGATES IN THE STATE OF VIRGINIA TO DO THEIR JOB WHICH IS SIMPLY TO PUT THE LEGISLATION UP FOR A VOTE.

SHOULD THAT HAPPEN WITHIN THE NEXT 20 DAYS, WE WILL REJOICE.

>> BONNIE: THERE IS DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER THE DEADLINE FOR RATIFICATION HAS PASSED AND IF IT MATTERS THAT FIVE STATES HAVE DE-CERTIFIED THEIR ORIGINAL VOTES.

BUT LOPEZ SAYS LAWYERS FOR EQUAL MEANS EQUAL SAY THAT ONE LAST VOTE IS ALL THAT IS NEEDED FOR THE RIGHTS OF WOMEN TO BE CODIFIED IN THE CONSTITUTION.

MY FULL INTERVIEW WITH LOPEZ IS AVAILABLE ON OUR TTC COMCAST ON OUR WEBSITE ON ITUNES® AND SOUND CLOUD.

SO, LAURA BROWN, I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS FOR YOU.

THE FIRST ONE IS DO WE NEED AN ERA AND THE SECOND ONE IS IF IT IS ONLY THE INSERTION OF A COUPLE OF WORDS IN THE CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIDES, THEN WHY NOT?

>> LAURA: LET ME JUST SAY ON THE ONE HAND WE PROBABLY DON'T NEED IT BECAUSE WE DO HAVE A VARIETY OF STATUTES THAT ALREADY ADDRESS DISCRIMINATION.

BUT I DO THINK THAT ONE OF THINGS THAT THAT IMPORTANT TO REALIZE ABOUT IT IS THAT THOSE STATUTES AT THE LEGAL LEVEL PUT THE ONUS OR THE BURDEN ESSENTIALLY ON THE INDIVIDUAL WHO IS MAKING THE CLAIM THAT THEY ARE BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST.

SO BY INSERTING THESE WORDS INTO THE CONSTITUTION, WHAT YOU DO IS YOU RELIEVE THAT SORT OF BURDEN ON THE PARAGRAPH AND IT BECOMES NOW A MANDATORY PART OF OUR WORLD.

SO THERE IS SOME -- >> BONNIE: IT SHIFTS THE BURDEN OF PROOF TO THE DEPARTMENT?

>> LAURA: WELL, IT SHIFTS THE BURDEN TO A -- IT HAS TO BE EQUAL ON ITS FACE, RIGHT?

AND TO NOT SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE PROVED THAT THERE HAS BEEN DISCRIMINATORY PRACTICE OR BIAS IN HIRING OR ANY OF THE OTHER MANY ISSUES THAT WOMEN RAISE WHEN THEY RAISE THESE ISSUES UNDER A 14TH AMENDMENT CLAIM.

>> BONNIE: AND WHAT ABOUT THAT IT IS ONLY A FEW -- A CHANGE OF A FEW WORDS, WHY NOT HAVE AN ERA?

>> LAURA.

I THINK THE FEAR IS WE HAVE THE 14TH AMENDMENT AND EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE AND YOU KNOW OBVIOUSLY WE DO HAVE IN THE PRIVATE WORKPLACE DISCRIMINATION, PROTECTIONS FOR WOMEN.

I THINK THE FEAR IS THAT IT IS JUST SOME SORT OF TROJAN HORSE FOR A POLITICAL AGENDA THAT COULD BE USED TO FORCE ABORTION, FORCE MORE ABORTION IN MORE CONSERVATIVE STATES AGAINST THE CONSCIOUS OF THE VOTERS, AGAINST THE CONSCIOUS OF THE COURTS.

>> BONNIE: EXACTLY HOW DO YOU THE ERA?

>> ERA APPLIED TO THE IDEA OF REPRODUCTIVE JUSTICE OR REPRODUCTIVE EQUALITY.

IT COULD BE USED TO EXPAND ABORTION LAWS WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN VIRGINIA AND IN NEW YORK IN WHICH EFFECTIVELY THIRD TRIMESTER ABORTION WHICH ONLY 13% OF AMERICANS SUPPORT IS MADE LEGAL.

>> THERE IS NO EQUIVALENCY THERE.

MEN DO SOMETHING THAT IS EQUIVALENT TO ABORTION SO IT HAS TO BE EQUALITY UNDER THE ER A.

THE MOST SALIENT ARGUMENT, THE ONE THAT WAS USED WHEN WE WERE IN THE STREETS TRYING TO GET THE ERA IS UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.

AND THAT IS REALLY WHAT UPSET THE KABOOSH HERE.

AND BECAUSE I WAS IN THE STREETS TRYING TO GET IT, I THINK ILLINOIS WAS THAT LAST STREET AND WE WERE -- STATE AND WE WERE HEART BROKEN.

I'M GOING TO SAY TO GO THROUGH THIS WOMEN AGAIN AND I HATE TO THE PUT THE KABOOSH ON THIS BUT ANYBODY WHO THINKS WE JUST GOT A FEW MORE STATES AND WE CAN ADD THEM ON DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW THE CONSTITUTION OF THE PROCESS WORKS.

IT IS LEFT OPEN FOREVER UNTIL YOU GET ENOUGH STATES.

THAT IS WHY WE HAD TO EXTEND IT TWICE.

SO YOU CAN'T JUST ADD STATES AND -- BARN SAYING THE STATUTE HAS TOLD AND THEY'RE -- >> DEFUNCT.

WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS START ALL OVER AGAIN AND IN THIS CLIMATE AND ERA GIVE ME A BREAK.

>> IN FACT, THE CONSTITUTION IS PRETTY GENDER NEUTRAL.

THE WORD PERSON IS USED THROUGHOUT THE CONSTITUTION WITH THE EXCEPTION OF VOTING AND OF COURSE IT TOOK A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT TO GIVE WOMEN THAT RIGHT.

AND I GUESS THE OLD ARGUMENTS USED TO BE WE CANNOT PASS THE EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT.

WE CANNOT HAVE SEPARATE BATHROOM ITS AND WE CANNOT PASS THE EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT AND WOMEN HAVE TO SERVE IN THE MILITARY.

THOSE ARGUMENT SEEM OLD FASHION.

I HAVE NOT HEARD THE ARGUMENT ABOUT ABORTION YET BUT THE FACT IS UNDER THE LAW WOMEN ARE IN FACT ENTITLED TO EQUAL TREATMENT AND YOU KNOW I THINK ILL NOR IS RIGHT.

>> BONNIE: WHY DO WE STILL HAVE HALF A CENTURY AFTER -- SECOND WAVE FEMINISM, WHY DO WE STILL HAVE ME TOO?

WHY IS ALL THIS STUFF GOING ON THAT IS SO INTO -- >> ME TOO IS NOT GOING TO BE SOLVED BY ADDING A FEW WORDS TO THE CONSTITUTION.

>> BONNIE: BUT IT IS BEING SOLVED BY LITIGATORS.

THE FIRST THING ABOUT -- >> WHAT IS BEING LITIGATED IN ME TOO?

>> BONNIE: THEY'RE SUING PEOPLE WHO HAVE -- PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ASSAULTED ARE SUING THE MAN WHO ASSAULTED THEM.

>> THESE ARE PRACTICES.

THIS IS NOT LAW.

THAT IS THE IMPORTANT THING WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE ERA YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LEGAL -- LAW WORKING -- >> THE CONSTITUTION -- >> NO.

>> LAW WORKING AGAINST FOR ONE SEX AN AGAINST THE OTHER.

>> AND THE CONSTITUTION BY THE WAY, THE WAY IN WHICH IT WORKS IS THAT FOR IT TO REACH CONSTITUTIONALISM IT HAS TO BE STATE ACTION.

>> BONNIE: STATE ACTION AND TWO-THIRDS OF CONGRESS.

>> NO.

IT MEANS STATE ACTION.

IT HAS TO BE THE GOVERNMENT THAT IS DOING THE DISCRIMINATING.

YOU PASS LEGISLATION TO DEAL WITH PRIVATE DISCRIMINATION THAT CAN THEN BE FOUND DISCRIMINATORY OR NOT DISCRIMINATORY UNDER THE 14TH AMENDMENT.

BUT PEOPLE SOMEHOW THINK THAT OUR CONSTITUTION IS VERY PRESSSTEIN FOR A REASON.

IT HAS WORKED VERY WELL AND UNLESS YOU CAN SHOW ME RIGHT NOW THAT THERE IS SUCH PERVASIVE STATE ACTION AGAINST WOMEN, I'M NOT SURE SIT IS WORTH OPENING UP A CAN OF WORMS.

>> IT COULD BE CAN BE CONFLICTS BETWEEN STATES WHICH IS ALSO SOMETHING THAT BRINGS A CASE TO THE SUPREME COURT.

BUT I THINK THE LARGER ISSUE HERE IS EXACTLY WHAT IS BEING DISCUSSED WHICH IS, THIS IS NOT GOING TO ALL OF A SUDDEN HAPPEN IF VERY WERE TO SUDDENLY RATIFY THERE HAVE BEEN FIVE STATES THAT HAVE RESCINDED -- >> BONNIE: DE-CERTIFIED.

WE TALKED ABOUT RAT FIXES.

THERE IS ALSO THE REALITY THAT ABORTION CONTROVERSY IS ROYALING THE VIRGINIA LEGISLATURE AND GOVERNORS SHIP SO THAT DOESN'T LOOK TO ME LIKE IT IS GOING TO BE A STATE WHERE REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO CROSS THE AISLE AND VOTE IN FAVOR OF THE ERA AND THEN YOU'VE GOT THIS OTHER ISSUE OF ALL THESE OTHER PEOPLE WHO DID RATIFY, DO THEY STILL WANT TO BE CONSIDERED RATIFIED?

>> BONNIE: AND WHETHER THE DE-CERTIFICATION IS -- YOU KNOW, PREEMPT CERTIFICATION.

>> THEN WE HAVE THE REALITY EVEN IF WE WERE TO TRY TO EXTEND IT MAYBE THE DEMOCRATS COULD VOTE THAT OUT OF THE HOUSE BUT IT WOULD DIE IMMEDIATELY GOING TO THE SENATE.

SO THERE IS NO HOPE AT LEAST AS FAR AS I SEE PROCEDURALLY FOR ANY ERA ANY TIME SOON.

>> EXCEPT STARTING OVER AGAIN.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION.

>> WE HAVE LOGS AND ALL THE THINGS WE COULD BE FOCUSING ON CONCRETE BIPARTISAN ENERGY INTO -- >> BONNIE: BEHIND THE HEADLINES.

HEADLINES: THE DRAFT.

MEN AGES 18 TO 25 ARE REQUIRED TO SIGN UP FOR THE SELECTIVE SERVICE SYSTEM, WHICH IN TURN MEANS THEY CAN BE DRAFTED.

WOMEN ARE NOT ONLY NOT REQUIRED TO SIGN UP, THEY ARE ACTUALLY BARRED FROM DOING SO.

A NEW CONGRESSIONAL COMMISSION IS TAKING A LOOK AT THE SELECTIVE SERVICE AND ASKING: SHOULD WOMEN BE REQUIRED TO REGISTER?

IN 1981, THE SUPREME COURT UPHELD THE DRAFT'S MEN-ONLY POLICY, ON THE BASIS THAT SINCE WOMEN WERE EXCLUDED FROM COMBAT CONGRESS WOULDN'T NEED TO DRAFT THEM.

BUT THINGS HAVE CHANGED.

>> DR. DAVIDSON: IN ABOUT 2015 ALL RESTRICTIONS FOR WOMEN SERVING IN THE MILITARY WERE FINALLY LIFTED.

THAT RAISED THE OBVIOUS QUESTION, IF WOMEN CAN SERVE IN ANY KIND OF CAPACITY THEN SHOULDN'T THEY ALSO BE REQUIRED TO REGISTER FOR THE DRAFT?

AND THEN IT RAISED EVEN MORE QUESTIONS LIKE DO WE EVEN NEED THE DRAFT?

>> BONNIE: THREE YEARS AGO, CONGRESS CREATED THE NATIONAL COMMISSION ON MILITARY, NATIONAL, AND PUBLIC SERVICE TO ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS.

DR. JANINE DAVIDSON IS ON THE COMMISSION WHICH JUST RELEASED AN INTERIM REPORT LEADING UP TO A FINAL RECOMMENDATION TO CONGRESS NEXT YEAR.

>> DR. DAVIDSON: WE HAVE BEEN BASICALLY ON A LISTENING TOUR FOR THIS WHOLE YEAR, WE'VE BEEN TO 15 STATES, 24 CITIES, WE'VE TALKED TO OVER 300 ORGANIZATIONS, BUT WE WANNA HEAR A LOT MORE FROM A LOT MORE PEOPLE.

AND THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WE ISSUED THE INTERIM REPORT.

TO SORT OF SAY, WE'RE HERE, THIS IS WHAT WE'VE HEARD SO FAR, TELL US WHAT YOU THINK.

>> BONNIE: WHILE THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS AREN'T BINDING WE ARE TOLD THAT THE COMMISSION IS LEANING TOWARDS SUGGESTING CHANGES TO THE STATUS QUO.

>> DR. DAVIDSON: PART OF THE STATUS QUO IS THAT THE SYSTEM FOR SELECTIVE SERVICE IS KIND OF ANTIQUATED.

SO EVEN IF WE SORT OF KEPT THE POLICIES THE SAME.

THE WAY IN WHICH PEOPLE ENGAGE WITH THE SYSTEM, THE WAY THEY SIGN UP FOR THE SYSTEM, THE WAY THEY'RE EXPOSED TO DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES.

WE'LL MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT AREN'T SIMILAR TO THE STATUS QUO.

BARN DAVIDSON SAYS MANY AMERICANS SIMPLY DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE DRAFT.

BUT POLES SHOW THAT AMERICAS GENERALLY SUPPORT REQUIRING WOMEN TO REGISTER IF MEN MUST DO SO.

>> DR. DAVIDSON: IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE IT THEN MORE PEOPLE THAN NOT SAY THAT MEN AND WOMEN SHOULD BOTH REGISTER ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE NATURE OF WAR.

IT'S COMPLEX, WE SHOULDN'T LEAVE TALENT ON THE TABLE.

WHEN IF WE HAVE A REAL, NO KIDDING, CATASTROPHIC, EXISTENTIAL, NATIONAL EMERGENCY THEN MANY PEOPLE SAY WHY WOULD NOT WANT TO LEVERAGE THE TALENT ACROSS THE SPECTRUM?

AND IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT GROUND COMBAT.

IT CAN BE HIGH TECH SKILLS, IT CAN BE ADMINISTRATIVE SKILLS, IT COULD BE ALL KINDS OF THINGS.

>> BONNIE: THE COMMISSION IS ALSO FOCUSING ON ALTERNATIVES TO TODAY'S VERSION OF MILITARY SERVICE.

ONE IDEA IS TO ENCOURAGE, BUT NOT REQUIRE, STUDENTS TO DO ONE YEAR OF SERVICE AFTER COMPLETING HIGH SCHOOL.

>> DR. DAVIDSON: WE HAD SOMETHING LIKE 10,000 APPLICANTS FOR THE PEACE CORPS BUT IT IS ONLY FUNDED FOR A LEVEL ABOUT 3500.

SO THERE'S ALL THESE PEOPLE THAT REALLY WANNA SERVE AND DO THINGS FOR THEIR COUNTRY.

AND THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH OPPORTUNITIES FOR THEM.

SO WHAT COULD CONGRESS DO TO INSPIRE MORE PEOPLE TO SERVE?

THEY COULD PROVIDE MORE OPPORTUNITIES THEY COULD ADVERTISE MORE.

THEY COULD PUT MORE MONEY INTO THESE PROGRAMS THAT ARE VERY POPULAR AND THAT DO AMAZING THINGS FOR COMMUNITIES ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND AROUND THE WORLD.

>> BONNIE: SOLIN CHAVEZ, WHY NOT JUST ASK WOMEN WHO ARE IN THE MILITARY AND THEY MAKE UP 15% AND RISING IN THE MILITARY AT THIS POINT IN TIME.

WHY NOT JUST ASK THE WOMEN WHO WERE THERE BECAUSE OVERALL, WANT EVERY OPPORTUNITY THAT MEN HAVE.

AROUND THEY SEE, YOU KNOW, THEY WANT TO SERVE AND THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO BE PROMOTED AS THEM SERVE.

>> LINDA: IT IS INTERESTING BECAUSE BACK IN THE DAY WHEN WOMEN IN COMBAT WAS A HOT ISSUE THEY DID POLLING AMONG WOMEN AND THERE WAS A DEEP DIVIDE.

WOMEN WHO WERE COMMISSIONED OFFICERS WANTED COMBAT POSITIONS OPENED TO THEM.

WOMEN WHO WERE NOT COMMISSIONED WHO WERE JUST GIS, ESSENTIALLY DID NOT.

THEY WERE NOT ALL THAT ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT GOING INTO THE INFANTRY FOR GOING INTO COMBAT.

BUT I THINK THERE IS AN ISSUE -- >> BONNIE: BUT COMBAT IS A TINY PERCENTAGE.

>> LINDA: IT IS DIFFERENT.

YOU CAN HAVE ANYBODY WHO HAS SEEN ANY MOVIES RECENTLY ABOUT WARS KNOWS THAT A LOT OF OUR WARS ARE FOUGHT WITH PEOPLE SITTING IN ARIZONA.

WITH DRONES AND DROPPING BOMBS THAT WAY AND OBVIOUSLY WOMEN ARE GOING TO BE AS GOOD AT THAT AS MEN AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE SUFFER IF THEIR MOMS THEY'RE NOT LIKELY TO SUFFER INJURIES BECAUSE OF IT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THE BIGGER ISSUE TO ME IS WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD HAVE A DRAFT.

I HAPPEN TO BE ONE OF THE FEW CONSERVATORS OUT THERE THAT BELIEVE DRAFT IS GOOD THAT WE OUGHT TO HAVE UNIVERSAL SERVICE AND BEING A CITIZEN IN THE UNITED STATES SHOULD COME WITH SOME DUTIES AS WELL AS SOME RIGHTS.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A DRAFT, I THINK BOTH MEN AND WOMEN OUGHT TO BE OPEN TO IT.

>> BONNIE: DID THEY EVEN HAVE A CHOICE ANY MORE WOMEN 15% OF THE MILITARY?

I MEAN, IT IS NOT LIKE YOU CAN CHOP OFF THAT 15% AND STILL KEEP IT GOING, RIGHT?

>> WELL, LOOK.

I AGREE WITH LINDA COMPLETELY.

IF THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THE DRAFT, WE SHOULD HAVE WOMEN REGISTER FOR IT.

IN FACT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HAVE LONG SAID I THINK AT SOME LEVEL HARD TO SAY LOGICALLY THAT A WOMAN SHOULD BE COMMANDER IN CHIEF OF THE UNITED STATES AND YET SHE'S NOT EVEN ELIGIBLE FOR THE DRAFT.

SO I DO THINK ACTUALLY PROGRESS FOR WOMEN IS HAVING THE DUTY AS WELL AS THE OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE.

>> I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE DRAFT AND REGISTRATION.

I WOULD BE FOR EVERYBODY REGISTERING.

I'M AGAINST THE DRAFT.

WE GOT RID OF THE DRAFT, PEOPLE.

WE USED TO HAVE THE DRAFT.

>> I LIKE IT.

>> BONNIE: BUT ALL YOUR FELLOW MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHEN THEY VOTE ON WHETHER TO GO TO WAR DON'T YOU THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE KIDS IN THE MILITARY AND THAT WOULD INFLUENCE THEIR DECISION?

>> AGAIN, I'M AGAINST DRAFTING PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO DO ANYTHING.

THE WHOLE NOTION THE LASTING IS UN-AMERICAN.

I DO BELIEVE THE UNITED STATES HAS TO BE READY BECAUSE WE ARE THE LEADING POWER IN THE WORLD AND I DON'T SEE ANYTHING WRONG IF YOU ARE MAKING MEN REGISTER AS TO MAKE WOMEN REGISTER THAT EVERYBODY COME IN AND LET'S SEE HOW FIT THEY ARE.

THAT IS ALL RIGHT WITH ME.

>> BONNIE: BUT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THERE WOULD ONLY BE A DRAFT IF WE GOT INTO SOME MAJOR -- >> WORLD WAR II WE COULDN'T HAVE WON WITHOUT THE DRAFT.

IT WAS CONTROVERSIAL THEN.

>> YOU'RE TALKING 100 YEARS AGO AS FAR AS MOST OF US ARE CONCERNED.

WE PROBABLY WOULD BE ABLE TO WIN THE NEXT WORLD WAR WITHOUT A DRAFT.

BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO GET THERE IN ORDER TO HAVE EVERYBODY REGISTER IN CASE WE NEED TO GET THERE.

AND I REALLY AM AGAINST SAYING, BECAUSE THERE MIGHT HAVE TO BE A DRAFT, SO WE ALSO HAVE TO HAVE EVERYBODY SIGN UP FOR SOME SOCIAL SERVICE.

THAT, TOO, IT SEEMS TO ME TAKES WAY FROM THE AMERICAN NOTION OF LIBERTY.

>> BONNIE: QUICKLY TIANA, YOUR THOUGHTS.

LESS THAN 30 SECONDS.

>> SO I THINK THAT HAVING A SELECTIVE SERVICE AND HAVING SOMETHING IF WE DO HAVE TO ENTER WORLD WAR III IS IMPORTANT.

THE REALITY IS THAT WE ARE THE GLOBAL PEACEKEEPER OF THE WORLD AND WE MUST STAND BY THAT AND DEFEND THAT HONOR AND THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.

THAT BEING SAID PULLING FROM THE DRAFT I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO MAKE THE DISTINCTION EVEN WOMEN WHO PASS THE TEST TO GO INTO COMBAT DO NOT FAIR AS WELL IN THE LONG TERM AND WE NEED TO SERIOUSLY -- >> BONNIE: I HAVE TO RUN.

THAT'S FOR IT THIS EDITION.

PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE: PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK, TO THE CONTRARY, SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

SEE AN ONLINE EPISODE OF "TO THE CONTRARY," PLEASE VISIT OUR PBS WEBSITE AT: PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

>> BE MORE, PBS.