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Unlock your potential.

It's a phrase we hear a lot, but what does it actually mean?

Tonight on women trailblazers, we explore a key ingredient often overlooked genuine connection.

Our guest is a force of nature dedicated to helping us build stronger, more supportive communities.

Get ready to be inspired.

I'm so happy you're joining us.

And then you from Los Angeles.

This is KLCS PBS.

Welcome to everybody with Angela Williamson.

An Innovation, Arts, education and public affairs program.

Everybody, with Angela Williamson is made possible by viewers like you.

Thank you.

And now your host, doctor Angela Williamson.

Cher Carnival is our guest Cher.

Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for having me Angela.

It's a privilege to be here.

Well, in your book that we'll discuss more in detail.

Yes, in a few minutes.

But your book is perfect for our Women Trailblazers episode because it's for it's designed for women.

And then if you want to, you can be part of it too.

But you really designed this for women.

Absolutely.

And so before we talk about this book, I want our audience to get to know you because, I mean, they don't know this, but I actually used to work underneath Cher.

She was my manager quite a few years ago.

So I'm so honored to have you back to discuss your book.

I'm so glad to be here on my very favorite topic.

Thank you.

Well, I mean, because you have been doing you've been working in communications your entire career, and this is not your first book, right?

This is my second book.

Yes.

My first book came out actually during Covid, and it was, withering to flourishing Nine Ways to Bloom Back After the Storm.

And it was basically a book about how I went through a really tough time.

And what were the nine things that I did to pull myself out of that, really, sort of a depressive state that I was in.

While a lot of people went to a a ton of emotional changes.

Absolutely.

But your background is in communications.

A lot of people don't think that communicators, especially seasoned communicators like yourself, get down.

So is that what that book was meant to be?

To let us know that you weather that storm and how you can help others?

Yes, I'm a I'm like you.

I'm a pretty positive person.

I see the glass half full, but It's really after you.

The storm has happened and you've gone through the crisis, and then you're sort of in this funk of just like, I don't want to do anything.

I'm just my life looks different.

It wasn't what it was before.

And so the book is telling you, when you're in that funk, you've gotten through the crisis, what are the things that you can do to pull yourself out and embrace this new chapter of your life?

Well, and I think the first book, in my opinion, should be read before you read this book.

I think they should be a companion piece because yes, now Covid is over.

Right?

But social connections.

I think there's a disconnect with our social connections because we had to change the way we kept our communication during Covid.

So how do we go back pre-COVID and have those strong connections?

I think you go back to realizing, first of all, that it's important.

I think it changed because we kind of said, it really doesn't matter.

We're going to cocoon in our homes.

We're going to, you know, we're our masks.

For those that did in the states that needed that, we just thought that it didn't matter anymore.

I got I got Netflix, I got my glass of wine like I got my dog.

You know, I think people just forgot how important it was in your life for health and happiness.

And the studies show and talk about that really the difference that it makes.

So I think people just thought that it would happen naturally.

I think people took it for granted.

And then when Covid changes, everything now, I think we just have to make more of the effort.

And there's, you know, there's definitely things that have happened besides Covid.

The other two things that had happened was technology.

People are streaming shows at 24 over seven.

You can get it on your phone, you can get it on your computer, you can get on your iPad.

That is taking up a lot of time.

That used to be spent meeting your friend down the street for, you know, happy hour or coffee and, and then the divisiveness of politics.

People don't trust each other like they used to.

There.

Are you red?

Are you blue?

Like, it's just really become this perfect, you know, bad situation where social connection has to be something that you prioritize or it's not going to happen.

So at some point we stop making it a priority because it was just a given for us.

It was automatic.

We didn't have to think about it.

Yes, but now we have to think about it.

So really, I mean, in your honest opinion, because you have so many years researching communication, have we gone backwards in our communications, like back to the Stone ages?

Yes we have.

I mean, as far as well, it's funny, probably a stone ages.

They were probably better connected.

Than we are now.

I mean, see.

I feel like it's.

Yes, but it's true.

We have we have stepped back where we are in fact.

And the reason that this book came about was when Vivek, the Surgeon General, Vivek Murthy, came out and said, we're having a loneliness epidemic.

I am with these people, I see them, I see how lonely they are.

When I ask people, do you have somebody that you could call in the middle of the night if you have something going on or you just you're having a panic attack and you want to call.

A lot of people said they couldn't.

And so I think that, you know, he had said, this is what we need to do to be able to, be more connected.

And then, you know, the whole thing with like, going remote.

I work remote, a lot of people go remote.

So I don't see my employees.

I mean, like just being around your staff here, like just seeing these friendly faces.

It just.

It makes me feel so good.

And you get to enjoy this every time you take.

A lot of people don't get that.

I don't have employees that I see in person.

They're all the way in Minnesota and I see them from this point up and they're lovely people.

But I miss that.

And a lot of us has just changed the way we communicate.

But I think what's really important in this book as well, too, every activity in this book is grounded in research.

Absolutely.

And people don't realize the amount of time we as communicators spend finding the research, because the research is important.

And I love it.

Do you, don't you?

Yeah, I love research.

It's absolutely wonderful.

And and it really starts with it's ground in, people like Brené Brown, who in 2010 gave the most amazing TEDx talk.

I think it's up to like 90 million people views.

I don't know, when I wrote my first book, I think it was like 30 million at that time.

It's probably 60 million now.

But anyway, so she talked about, about connection and what gets in the way, which I talk about this in here of not, of being afraid to be vulnerable, being afraid to pick up the phone and call someone because they might not answer or they might think you're silly so much.

I really discovered about connection is having the confidence and the belief that you deserve to have friendship.

You deserve to have love.

And that's what Brené Brown talked about.

I remember talking to someone that I knew and was a gentleman and he just said, you know, I've always thought about reaching out to some of the guys, you know, like just seeing how they're doing.

I had a great group of guys that I used to hang out in college, and we kept in contact and, you know, and we just lost touch.

And I'm thinking, just call this text one of them, you know, just just do that.

And my husband Brian has been great about that.

He literally in the last year inspired by the guidebook, and my first book, he has reached out to friends he hasn't talked to in 30 or 40 years, tracks him down, finds it was not easy for both of them, and literally planned a trip his family to go see.

One of them was in Germany.

One of them was this past, September up in Northern California, and we planned a whole trip around it.

And he got to visit two friends he hadn't seen in over 30 years.

And so I'm hearing from what you're telling me, yes, there's a few things that are blocking us.

And one is fear.

Fear.

And then one is that we don't understand that sometimes in these long term relationships, there are conflicts, but that's all a part of being in the relationship.

Sometimes there are conflicts.

Yes, there are.

And I think what happens is people, well, first of all, they need to understand not every relationship is meant to go all the way.

But the one said there's seasons or seasons for people, but the ones that they're like a gem and you're like, like you like you don't want to lose this person.

Like, we were only together three months.

But through social media shout outs, the ways you can use social media in a positive way, I feel like I feel like I have seen you every year for the last 20 years, and that was the last time I saw you.

So it's a great way for social media.

But I think what happens is you're right, there could be conflict.

There could be.

Maybe you find out that somebody you know is now on an opposite side on politics.

But I think if you can agree to that, I mean, I certainly have friends like that who I adore.

And I'm like, I'm not getting I'm not going to let their opinion that happens to be different than mine get in the way of the support and the love and the friendship that we have.

You got to let that go.

Like Mel Robbins says.

And I'm getting through her book.

Let them let them have their own opinions.

Let them have it.

Now if it so different than your values.

So like it gets in the way of everything else, that's something else we're talking about being able which David which David Brooks, which I mentioned him in one of the chapters on curiosity.

He says, find out all the phases, all the sides of this, these people that are in your lives and accept all of it.

If it doesn't go against your values, like these people are multidimensional, they're just not one dimensional.

And I think if you understand that and you allow them to be vulnerable and you're vulnerable, you just have a better relationship, a deeper connection, and not this superficial stuff where you just have to be a certain way.

You know, that's a perfect way to end this segment.

And when we come back, you're going to walk us through this guidebook and show us how we can have deeper connections so we get rid of the fear.

And so we realize that conflict's part of that.

But we need to look at those relationships and look at them from a different eye.

It like a three dimensional relationship.

Exactly.

Will do all of that when we come back.

Wonderful.

Come back to hear more from Cher.

We are taught you don't talk about your problems with nobody, because you could get in trouble and have been for inciting depression, sexual assault.

When I decided to get my life changed and the mental health box, that was one of the big tools, accepting help means that we are allowing somebody to bless our life.

It's freeing.

We got stronger together.

Love your mind.

Mom, did you really need to buy two can openers for our emergency kit?

I can't help it.

They're two for one.

What's this?

We need to keep our family communication plan safe in case of an emergency.

Thanks, Peter.

We should think ahead to keep mom and dad safe when it floods this year.

I've got an evacuation route loaded on my phone.

I've got an updated list of dad's meds.

And I've got just what we need to get them to take this seriously.

Start a conversation with your family and plan together for emergencies.

Winter.

Always.

Welcome back.

That was a phenomenal first segment.

Thank you so much for that background.

Great questions.

But your research is now you're putting it into action with this guidebook right.

So what I want us to do is actually what you to do is give us a little bit of a masterclass about this so that we can take some of these key concepts, and then we have to make sure our audience knows how they can get both of your books.

Okay.

Terrific.

So the first section of the book really goes through and talks about why it's important.

Like I said in the last segment, social connection needs to be something that you make a priority in your life.

The first section really walks through why?

Why does it need to be a priority?

Well, it needs to be a priority because our health depends on it.

I don't know if you know this, but, those that are lonely and we're talking about perceived loneliness.

This is not the person that's, you know, happy in a cabin with their cat.

And and they've got their books.

This is somebody that that feels lonely.

They have perceived loneliness.

What that can do.

It is the same equivalent of smoking.

15 cigarets a day.

The body perceives it that way.

So it is bad for your health.

It causes can cause loneliness, perceive loneliness.

Can cause heart issues.

It can contribute to dementia, depression, anxiety.

And you'll see as we talk a little bit later in it, it can cause so many health issues and I just don't think people people realize that.

Well, and until I read this book, I don't think I've heard a lot about what you were mentioning that you mentioned in the first segment.

Right?

Loneliness epidemic.

Yeah.

So we we come out of a pandemic to go into it.

But people don't see that because there's no physical.

They don't think they see physical signs.

But you're telling me there are physical signs of this.

There are physical signs.

Doctor murthy went in and was able to see what the repercussions were.

He saw that the people were lonely.

If you talk to people.

And he said, I mean, I know I was there, I was there a few years ago.

I talk a little bit about that in the book that, it was a couple of years ago and not only the pandemic, but there was the great, resignation.

When people are shifting all over the place and a lot of people left.

And so I was left.

A lot of my coworkers were left with extra work.

I think people are feeling that now.

everything just shut down.

And I think what happens is, and if you think about where we're at right now, I mean, really what's going on in society today, people are feeling more scared.

They feel uncertain about things.

Regardless of how you feel about Paul, it talks about anxiety.

I mean, a lot more people are anxious.

Yes.

And that's what I that to me is the crux of what I want to say.

And I'm actually doing some more blogs myself on this is a blog.

Articles on this is that people don't understand how, doing, how reaching out to people is just can be even more so of a dopamine hit.

And we also talk about the dopamine, being able to go, you know, oh, I feel I, gosh, I'm so I'm, you know, doomscrolling I'm, I'm watching TV.

You know, our friend.

My friend, you know, in, Pacific Palisades.

I heard her house burned like they're feeling, you know, the the airplane crash, all this stuff.

And so what do they do?

A lot of people just go, I'm just going to get.

And I'm going to watch, like, you know, six hours of something on Netflix or I'm going to just go through my phone.

And so they do that because they think that's going to be a hit or a glass of wine or something like that.

But the thing is, research shows that when you actually reach out and you meet someone face to face or on the phone, or even if you were to do a FaceTime call more than anything face to face, you have something called oxytocin.

Yes, the hugging hormone, I think they call it.

And it's something that you feel like.

Like I said, I'm going to walk away from all of this feeling so filled up, being with your wonderful staff, being with you.

That's oxytocin.

That's oxytocin.

It's it's looking in somebody's eyes.

It's putting your hand on their shoulder.

We are missing that.

We are missing that we're not doing that enough.

We're just kind of staying in our own places and we're thinking that it's overwhelming.

We can't we can't fit it in.

But to your point, Angela, you mentioned about anxiety.

Yes.

And so.

Well, two things.

The rejection.

These are the two things I think I really hope your, your people out there watching will understand God a lot.

They can't underestimate how we don't want to be rejected.

So we were afraid to make that phone call or that text we're afraid the person is going to.

They're they're going to feel silly.

They're going to be rejected.

And so what I talk about is, is really what Brené Brown says is, is do the reach out, take the chance.

What do you have to lose if you have confidence in yourself and you say, well, that person's not reaching it, why do we blame ourselves?

Maybe they're just really busy.

Maybe their mother has just found out they had cancer.

There's all kinds of reasons, but it's so easy for us to say, oh, I'm not enough.

Like I don't deserve for them to call me.

Oh, I should have.

I should have wished them happy birthday on social media.

I bet they're not.

I mean, they're not responding because I didn't I didn't.

Like their post.

I didn't I did not see.

A like on my post.

Exactly.

And then the other thing was we talk about being depressed, not having energy to, to connect.

We talked about that a little bit.

And then if you have things like being anxious and there's been a study that was out where they, they took like 3000 kids.

It was from Brigham Young University.

And they, they were, I don't know, clinically depressed, but they gave them the assignment to take this money and do an act of kindness for someone or to reach out to a family member.

And then they measured how they felt after.

And by far the majority of the kids felt better, like here doing something.

That was the other thing too, is, there's a wonderful book called The Wonder Drug and and doing things for other people, and science shows that it can absolutely improve your mood because it makes you feel like I have something to offer.

I'm not just the slug, you know, on the couch, depressed and or anxious.

I'm actually doing something to bring a smile on somebody else's face.

So acts of kindness can strengthen our connections.

Is what you're telling me?

Absolutely can.

It can improve your mood.

So.

And acts of kindness is a great way to connect with someone.

Well, and you also two talk about this acronym connect.

Let's talk about that.

Let's do that.

So that's chapter three.

The idea is that it's one thing to do the connection and to understand that it's a priority.

It's another thing for people like we're talking about that confidence.

Yeah.

How are you confident.

Well you're confident if you're a decent conversational list.

If you do go to a party or networking and you feel confident that you have the skills to be able to go up and have a good conversation.

So what I did was I thought about, when I was writing this guidebook, I thought about what are those top skills that when somebody comes up and they do these things, that somebody walks away and they feel good for know for having that interaction with someone.

I wanted to give people those tools so they feel confident that they can go and start new friendships and find a partner, you know, a partner or a partnership or all of those things.

So these were the five, I could go through them just really quickly, please.

Okay.

So the first one is being clear and concise.

Not everybody is like that.

And I was doing some Stephen, some more research on that.

And I think people want to be understood.

So sometimes or they want to be an authority.

So they give so much more information.

They don't talk in simple terms.

And so what happens is they don't know what their key message is.

And so they bury it.

And then people are like, I'm trying to follow you.

Where is it?

What is it saying here?

Sometimes I tell them, you just explain it to me like I'm a.

Five year old.

Exactly.

Sometimes.

And you can really fully understand it.

Yes.

And then and then you get their message right away, and then they can respond back to you, and then you can have a really good conversation.

second thing is open minded.

We could use that really in the society.

I think going to any relationship and there are some phrases that you can say just you could say something like, I'm really because you could tell maybe somebody has a different way of thinking.

Right.

And then, I was talking to my husband about this.

It was like, what is a good example?

And I was thinking something like, maybe, there's a working mother and she's talking to a stay at home mom, and they're both on opposite sides.

Right.

But then, as they say, the working mother says the stay at home mom, you know what?

I'm really interested.

How did you come about the decision to become a stay at home mom?

Like I never considered it was never going to be an option, but I'm always I'm.

I'm really curious to know what's your perspective?

Why would you want to do that?

And then you feel that connection.

Because that person would be open to you because you're saying to them, I like to listen to different perspectives.

Tell me more, tell me more.

And that's how you can approach other people that have different perspectives.

Good.

Okay.

So we have the open mind.

It not distracted.

I think that goes without sex.

Number two.

So the n in connect not being distracted Nonverbal awareness.

I think people don't understand how powerful your, nonverbal actions are.

And then Emotional intelligence is really about managing your emotions and being able to understand other people's emotions.

It's having empathy.

It's being able to, again, sort of read the room.

On being able to pick up on little things that people are telling you.

It's having empathy.

It's understanding what somebody is feeling.

And then this is one of my favorites the next year.

And my parents have two more.

So curiosity is about it's easy for us for in communications.

I was originally going to be a news reporter, and then I wanted to be a TV reporter.

And then I ended up being in corporate communications for, for decades.

And so I always approached like, I love finding out about people.

In fact, when I had my own communications firm, I did biographies for small business owners, and it just being able to get behind.

And you're great about that, where you ask people about, you know, their backgrounds and things, and it's like finding out why they are the way they are and, and approaching it with just with kind of love and connections.

They tell me more.

So, you know, being able to find out we were saying that earlier, people are three, you know, they're three dimensional.

They're just don't just take them at their word.

Oh, you like exercise?

Tell me more.

How did how did that come about?

Like, you know, was there a time when you weren't into exercise?

How did that go?

How did you pull yourself out?

So I think David Brooks talks about it.

He wrote a book called How to Really Know Someone.

I was just love that book because he said, we all need to connect with one another, but it's asking good questions.

Have you ever been with someone and you had an entire conversation and they didn't ask one question about you, or they just went on and on like, you're catching up.

You're you're having a, you know, having lunch with someone.

You haven't seen him in six months.

And then they tell you all about their stuff and then they don't turn, because none of my friends do that.

But, you know, like they would after they do their little update, they go, so tell me all about you.

How are the kids?

How's the husband?

What's going on?

Like that is really getting to know someone and they don't have to be perfect like you don't have to agree with everything they say.

It's the connection.

Right?

And then the last, in this chapter is called Be True to Yourself.

This taps back into that being vulnerable, being confident to say, this is who I am, you know, like this.

This is who I am.

This is what I bring to the table.

So that's really what the connect is all about.

So your two books, how can our audience find your two books and support you?

So if you go to Amazon, you just put in my name.

Cher.

Knebel, Knebel.

It's like Evel Knievel with me because people always.

Want to say.

Is it Nebo?

It's Knebel?

If you put that in both of the books pop up and, I'm really excited.

You know, my book came, my first book came out in 2020.

Thank you so much for mentioning it.

I'm going to go out there and promote it.

I'm thinking of actually on social media, calling it Flourishing Fridays and having a tip from the book that helps people, in addition to what I'm going to be promoting on the guide book.

I wanted to do that forever.

So I think now that I, you know, I went through the book actually kind of refresh to the just a bit.

And I was like, I love this book as much.

And I think it's as valuable as it was back in 2020, even more so on what it's the epidemic was big, but I think people are going through some heavy stuff.

I'm also on social media just living happily connected.

Underscore between the words and that's where I'll be sharing.

Like when I do blog posts I just got on Substack.

This is a new thing for me.

Have you heard of it?

No.

So it's a place for writers and people to express themselves.

So I just posted like links to three of my blog, so I'm writing a ton.

I'm going to be doing more, you know, speeches and just getting the word out.

So yeah, Amazon, Instagram.

I mostly, I'm now on, Substack and then my website.

We'll do Laura thoughts on that.

So our audience can definitely see that and follow you.

Yeah.

I am so proud of you and know Mike.

So much for coming on the show and talking about this subject because it's so important.

And you were the perfect person to lead us.

And thank you for the work that you do.

I think being able to be and and shine the light on what people are doing in the community, we need to do more of that.

And it's true.

And so thank you for what you do.

And I hope more stories of what people are doing, especially bringing people together, is, you're doing a wonderful service to.

So it's been a pleasure being here.

We'll make sure that our sponsors hear that last part.

So I appreciate.

No, it's it's a value.

We do not have enough of those stories out.

So continue to do the good work, continue to support.

And we need that people are desperate for for more positive stories and knowing what people are doing in the community.

So thank you.

Oh and thank you.

And thank you for joining us on everybody with Angela Williamson.

Viewers like you make this show possible.

Join us on social media to continue this conversation.

Good night and stay well.

Hi, I'm Angela Williamson, host of everybody with Angela Williamson.

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