HEFFNER: I'm Alexander Heffner, your host on The Open Mind.

I'm delighted to welcome today's guest, Ann Friedman.

She's the founder and CEO of Planet Word.

And Nikki Sertsu, she's the Executive Director of Planet Word.

I have to thank a former housemate, suitemate, college roommate who recommended, upon a recent visit to DC to check out the newest and most innovative, I can agree with him, muse and Washington DC.

Planet Word is truly magnificent.

And we have Nikki and Ann to thank for their stewardship of that.

Welcome to you both.

FRIEDMAN: Thank you.

SERTSU: Thank you.

Glad to be here.

HEFFNER: Let me ask you, Ann, to start, as the founder of the muse.

What inspired you to create it in the first place?

FRIEDMAN: There is like a short answer and a long answer.

The short answer is that I was a reading teacher and I retired, but I still wanted to stay in the literacy space.

I felt it was really important that we do everything possible to create a nation of readers if we were going to have a strong democracy.

And how would I do that?

I tried all sorts of things.

I thought maybe I'd write a TV show where the main character was an avid reader, but then I read a New York Times article about a new museum in New York City, MoMath, which is bringing the abstract concepts of math to life through technology and interactive exhibits.

And that's the short answer where I got the idea is of a museum was from that.

HEFFNER: It's perfectly placed in, somewhere that really requires nuanced, contextual, civil discourse in order to operate and perpetuate our democracy.

So I think we all are grateful for your creation.

And let me ask you both, starting with you, Nikki, the museum is basically, its thesis is about the power of words and their imperativeness to civil society.

Nikki, when did you first discover, as a child or an adult truly discover the power of words?

SERTSU: Wow.

That's a great question.

Several intersections, I guess several times in my life.

I think, most recent maybe, the first time that I realized I was the victim of hate speech in elementary school and had never experienced that before and couldn't understand why my classmate was choosing to use a word to describe me that didn't feel very good to me.

And I decided, with the help of my grandfather who was very wise and knowledgeable, that I would sort of turn that into something more positive than the negative reaction that it had on me at the time.

So I started writing about it, and that was very therapeutic for me.

HEFFNER: Now, Ann, the same question to you, whether it's as a girl or a woman or both, when did you feel like words had all of the meaning in the world to you?

FRIEDMAN: Well, I would say it was more the power of reading.

And, you know, I was teaching first grade reading, beginning reading, so that was the first time a lot of my students had ever been writing, been writing persuasively, read poetry and recited poetry.

And I just loved to see their eyes light up and the joy that they got from using words and jokes, reading joke books, all those sorts of things, really excited me.

And I would say, you know, to this day, if I describe myself as anything, it's a teacher.

And so it is hard to get away from those memories.

HEFFNER: I have to confess, I mentioned my college mate.

But when I was going with my partner, I was concerned it might not be an age-appropriate museum, meaning my age at least had exhausted the boundaries of what was acceptable to patronize your museum.

No, in fact, and I'm glad she reassured me, and he had, I think, reassured us too.

I mean, he had recommended in the first place.

But it is for everyone interested in words, the life of words, etymology, linguistics, and you'll come away with to use the animation that Nikki described in recounting the power of words growing up, you know, a cathartic experience, that will leave you, learning new ways of thinking about words, whether it's in one form of diction or language or another.

So can you just describe Nikki, the immersive experience?

You have the word wall.

You have immersive, multimedia, multidimensional experiences, what people will find as soon as they walk into Planet Word?

SERTSU: Well, as soon as you walk into Planet Word, you are surrounded by words and language.

Words are everywhere.

They're on the floor, they're on the walls, they're even in the restrooms.

And there's a bit of humor there that we hope everybody checks out.

They're in the elevators.

So when you experience planet Word, we encourage you to start on the third floor.

And that experience is all about our world of words, and that's where we have the word wall and a beautiful 5,000 LED globe, where you learn all about the diversity of the world languages.

And then on the second floor it's all about the creative things that we do with words and language.

You learn songwriting techniques by having fun in a karaoke style lounge experience.

You tell jokes, you visit our magical library where books come to life on a story table.

And then on the first floor, which is the last floor of your experience, it's all about really bringing home for visitors the power of words and language.

And you try your hand as a copy editor and think about creating your own ad.

And you listen to storytellers talking to you in a very personal way about their word story.

And then you're encouraged before you leave to leave your own story behind about why words are important to you, to your family, to experiences that you may have had.

HEFFNER: This is an outdated form of communication.

I mean, believe it or not, even though we're on Zoom, this is an interview.

It's not Twitter or X, it's not Wikipedia.

The point I'm making is you incorporate technology in a way that that doesn't overpower the syllable or the word, or the collection of words and syllables, which is quite an accomplishment because you could very well trivialize or diminish words, and you don't.

We just have to grapple with the fact that yes, your muse should be first on the list of every novelist, speechwriter, poet, or aspiring writer, whether they're in first grade or a PhD student, for sure.

But we all know, maybe we have nightmares about this too, that the significance of word or speech has in some measure been eroded by new technologies, where someone might just read a headline of a story or the first few words of a, a tweet or a message on Facebook, and that's not changing.

So how are you addressing that climate where technology seemingly infinitely is endangering the meaning and value of words to society?

FRIEDMAN: Well, you know, we, we can't fight what's happening, but we can do our best to show why it's important to go deeper than a video or deeper than a tweet.

Our society demands that if we are going to have educated, informed voters to keep our democracy thriving, we need people who are critical thinkers who look deeper than the words and think and know how to debate and assess evidence.

So it's all we can do to suggest that and show how important that is.

But we are just one little muse in a big world.

And, so, you know, that's- HEFFNER: That's awfully modest.

You immediately upon launching, I think, deserve to be in a class of the Smithsonian institutions in terms of your impact and relevance.

So you, you both are modest.

SERTSU: Thank you.

HEFFNER: And still, you know, compelling spokespeople for the cause.

I appreciate that the tsunami of the cultural moment is resounding.

We can't escape it.

I hear what you're saying, and yet it's the combination of the technology and the fact that what is most incentivized and what tends to get the most limelight are expressions, not of moral courage, but often too much cowardice, not of diplomacy, but of militant bellicosity, that we seem to be moving towards a climate where that type of Rough Rider language is more current.

Now, you have counter examples.

I think on the first floor, if it's still there, of life affirming, charismatic oratory, it's in effect a lesson in speech writing and speech giving for anyone who visits the museum.

But those are not the types of discourse that are being modeled for this generation and subsequent generation.

So what are you doing at Planet Word?

How are you thinking about it in a way that can incentivize the positive values of diplomacy and speech?

FRIEDMAN: We are a museum with these fun galleries that you described and Nikki described, but we are more than that.

We also have programming, and we have an auditorium, and we have lecture series about these really relevant, timely issues of the day.

And we are recording many of those programs.

So they have a broader reach than just in Washington, DC the 150 people who can fit in our auditorium, but we are tackling those issues.

So we are about to launch a series of programs called Having Hard Conversations.

And what I'm really interested in is showing the broader public how they can have engage in civil dialogue, you know, what are the techniques that people should have?

And so we can do that.

We are also really interested in what are best practices in teaching reading.

If we stand for, you know, a literate society, and if our mission is to engage people with reading and language, then we also need to advocate for the best kind of reading instructions so that we create this nation of avid readers.

And we've started last year a series of programs on the science of reading evidence-based reading approaches.

So I think we're coming at these issues that you raised from a lot of different angles.

HEFFNER: Nikki, what do you think are the most compelling tactics in persuasion, or at least, if not persuasion, The disarmament of the divisiveness, to get people to listen to different perspectives, have empathy for another human being, even if they do not share a conviction that they have, or even if they ultimately determine that they are not aligned fundamentally with their values.

SERTSU: I think for Planet Word, it's being that convener, bringing people together to have those hard conversations, as Ann said, you know, having a safe place to have those conversations, whether we agree or disagree, we still have to talk about it, right?

And I think for Planet Word, we want to be that convener.

We want to be that safe place for people to have those hard conversations.

They may leave the lecture or the program or the activity still not agreeing, and that's not necessarily our goal.

But hopefully they'll leave understanding how to have those conversations in a manner that is civil and respectful and doesn't bring harm to others.

HEFFNER: Not speaking for the museum, but speaking for yourselves, if you you'd like, are you concerned that there is more destructive speech than constructive speech right now?

I mean, in your lifetimes, you've both had careers in the space of education and literacy.

Nikki and Ann, assess where we are in the kind spectrum of constructive, you know, being 10 and destructive, being zero, where we are in your lifetimes.

You both reference your childhood in different ways, but I'm interested in giving a candid assessment of where we are.

Are we five, right in the middle of destructive or constructive speech?

We've seen over the course of this spring and commencement season blossoming student protest of a kind we hadn't seen since the war in Iraq or possibly Vietnam.

So I'm just interested in your perspective.

You don't have to give a number, but if you do want to shed light on if we are more in a destructive or constructive speech climate right now, starting with you, Ann.

FRIEDMAN: I guess I would have to say destructive, but you know, that's why we need Planet Word, and that's why I'm so glad that the museum is open to send a different message, to show the different ways that we can use words.

And one thing that I should mention is that, you know, there are two different sort of schools of linguistics.

There's the Instructivist and the constructivist, and we are a descriptive muse.

And so that means we show how our language is being used.

We don't get into a lot of rights and wrongs, and we don't want to intimidate anyone from coming to Planet Word, because they might not have perfect grammar or perfect English.

But how does this relate?

We're always trying to use our language in an open-minded way, and welcome everybody in.

Find the thing that you can do with words that's positive and fun for you, if it's singing or giving a speech, or you love poetry.

So we have a whole like focus on not emphasizing bad or good or right or wrong, but the fun and beauty of words and language.

SERTSU: I can't say it any better than that.

But I would agree that that leaning more toward the destructive side of things these days.

But I think for Planet Word as a muse that is a trusted resource in the community, people come here and they, one of their first impressions is that we are a place of learning, and we're very proud of that.

So, as you were mentioning the Oratory Gallery, we hold those speeches up because we think they are significant, and we think that people can learn from them and learn from them in ways that might help them use their words, like Ann said, in more constructive ways in the future.

HEFFNER: I started my journalism career in 2008 when both major political candidates, presidential candidates, were deploying words through that more constructive light, teachable moments for constituents and people at town hall meetings.

And yes, soaring oratory, but also inspiring people in a way this country hadn't felt and on the heels of a Great Recession where we needed a boost of morale.

So, as we conclude our conversation, I do want to shift to the positive, because I think there's an ample space for Planet Word to help this generation, if you want to call it Millennials or Gen Z folks who were entering the workforce, or who have been in the workforce and have careers at the State Department or publishing agencies or wherever.

The hard work of communicating happens every day.

We saw when first responders on 9/11, you know, dug people out of the ash, and saved lives through that communication.

So there's something to be said for objective communicating in the heat of crises.

Now, unlike in 2008, we're amidst geopolitical tumult.

Yes, there's divisiveness at home, but there's also wars raging right now in the Middle East and in Russia and Ukraine.

While still staying if you want to use the word dispassionate, I hope you can be passionate about encouraging not just children, but the people who are running media and running companies, and running foreign countries and our own country to write a more peaceful future.

When words have the power to be that great deterrent.

And we survived the Cold War, notwithstanding President Reagan's joke that the Soviets thought was actually an imminent nuclear war, right?

Outlawing Russia, you'll remember that, notwithstanding a few jokes here and there.

The prevalent type of discourse was in the mode of trying to save lives and prevent war.

It doesn't seem that way now.

So I'm just going leave us with this discussion of how words can prevent war, how words can prevent death.

I think they're the best chance we have at rescuing these situations abroad that are deeply problematic right now.

So what can Planet Word do to help all the generations save lives?

FRIEDMAN: Well, wouldn't that be nice if we could?

I would love to have that legacy, but I just think it's an insistence on evidence, data, finding the truth through dialogue, through back and forth and not bowing to people who say they have the truth.

And they know everything is more complicated than that.

And, you know, I just would like people to come away from Planet Word, listening carefully, listening to themselves, listening to the people around them, and not being afraid to speak up if they hear words being misused, euphemisms that hide reality.

I don't know if we can do that, but that would be a wonderful legacy.

HEFFNER: Nikki, just in the few minutes we have left that same question to you, you're on the cusp of doing that, and people can see an investment in education, literacy and Planet Word as that.

How do you make that link to people that throughout history, documents and debates have prevented us from the collapse of civilization, the collapse of civil society?

SERTSU Well, I think we make that link by being here, Planet Word is a museum whose time has come.

People come here, every day and are either brought to tears or nearly in tears because they welcome the opportunity to, to use their words and ways that they can in the muse.

So I, I think we make that link by being here.

HEFFNER: Any exercises you can suggest for the next generation.

Again, I shouldn't say the next generation.

For this generation of leaders.

I think there should be delegations that are sent to your museum, to work on those problems.

Because really at the end of the day the more peaceful of the swords that we have.

It can be that great deterrent, and I don't know that enough people see it that way.

They see the status quo, and unfortunately, the status quo is more appearance of violence in both combat and discourse.

So keep and stay strong.

I admire what you're doing.

I hope our listeners and viewers do too.

For those who want to visit in DC tell us how they do.

So do they just walk on in, are there special exhibits coming up in this year of 2024?

Give us the skinny.

FRIEDMAN: We recommend that you go online and reserve a free pass.

We're free, in advance for a particular day and time.

But often you can just walk up and we'll be open and can accommodate you.

We are closed on Tuesdays, so don't come that day.

I don't know.

Did I say everything, Nikki?

SERTSU: Yeah.

You said, you said everything.

We're open, 10 o'clock to 5:00 PM during the week, and until 6:00 PM on the weekends.

We have a great retail shop, which is perfect.

HEFFNER: Every kind of word, game, puzzle- FRIEDMAN: Everything you can imagine.

HEFFNER: paraphernalia.

If you're a crossword lover, if you're a Wordle, gamer, go to Planet Word.

FRIEDMAN: You know, we're also open late on Wednesdays.

Once a month, we have word play Wednesday, because we saw that it was 20 and 30 somethings who were flocking to Planet Word.

And so we stayed open late, and it's sort of like a date night for people and a date with words, so that's fun.

HEFFNER: Nikki and Ann, thank you for the stimulating dialogue today.

An ode to words, and again, thank you for the muse.

FRIEDMAN: You're welcome.

SERTSU: Thank you.

HEFFNER: Please visit The Open Mind website at thirteen.org/openmind to view this program online, or to access over 1,500 other interviews.

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Continuing production of The Open Mind has been made possible by grants from the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, Angelson Family Foundation, Robert and Kate Niehaus Foundation, Grateful American Foundation, Robert S. Kaplan Foundation, Draper Foundation, and Ploughshares Fund.