(bright music) (electricity buzzing) - [Announcer] Funding for "Working Capital" is provided by the Friends of KTWU.

The Raymond C. and Marguerite Gibson Foundation and Go Topeka.

(upbeat music) Today on "Working Capital," we have Kelly Rippel from Kansans for Hemp on, well, he has many hats.

He's with a lot of other organizations, but that's where I've known him longest.

So thanks for being on "Working Capital" Kelly.

- Thank you very much for having me, Jay.

I really appreciate it.

- As this sector has emerged in Kansas over the last few years, especially with the Hemp Bill, with farmers, you know, being a farming state, we're looking for any way to help the farmers out to create new income streams or even ways to help regenerate their fields.

So where are we sitting at in Kansas with the Hemp Bill and how that's gone over the last few years and where's that heading for our farmers and even the other business sectors that can come from that?

- Yes.

So in Kansas, farmers have been able to grow industrial hemp since 2019.

And over time, that program has evolved from more of a research kind of controlled environment to just being a commercially available program for farmers.

And thankfully, Governor Kelly signed into law the expanded commercial program.

And so we now have more adoption from farmers growing the crop.

But also just within the past year, the Department of Agriculture in Kansas has transitioned the program to USDA.

And so farmers just now need to report their acreage to USDA, similar to other crops.

So it's starting to become more like other crops, even though there still are a couple differences.

- Not to get too political, but of course this is a political thing 'cause even though our Hemp Bill had to go through our local politics, but with current administrations changing, are we afraid the programs will be shuttered or contracted in any way?

Are these kind of safe for now?

- Yeah, as far as we know, the industrial hemp program is protected under USDA regulations and it has expanded in addition to like crop insurance, that's now starting to become available to farmers.

- That's huge 'cause at first, when it first started, if you had hail, if you had something else, you were out all that money.

We were actually gonna have a first generation, first new generation hemp farmer on a few seasons ago, but I think the week or two before we were having them on, they had a hailstorm, decimated his whole field.

And of course that changes the story and all.

And I would have a hard time talking about that too.

So we weren't able to do that.

But I've seen other businesses who have thrived from it.

So where are we sitting at industry-wise?

- Yeah.

So in the state we have three processing plants that are available to farmers in Great Bend, Kansas.

So further out west in Augusta, down by Wichita, and then Prairie Band Ag up by Holton on the Potawatomi Tribe.

- That one I hadn't heard of.

Is that one of the newer ones?

- It is, yes.

It opened up, I believe a couple years ago now.

And so they've got their feet under them.

They're actually creating some pretty exciting products.

This isn't by them specifically, but I know that they are now producing hemp based plastics like straws.

- So it'll be like this.

Okay, so last year, we had Ken Canna on, so we talked and, you know, mostly lotions and tinctures and CBD stuff, that route.

So that's what I think most people in Kansas still think of when they're hearing hemp.

- Sure.

- CBD, they don't see the grand stuff, but the plant, the fibers from the plant and the oils and all can be made into quite a bit of stuff.

So I mean, we're looking at drinking straws.

- Yeah, which are biodegradable, I mean.

- Forks.

- Yeah and I brought a really good graphic for this too, if you wanna show this.

Industrial hemp is an extremely versatile crop because all of the parts can be used, from the roots to the seeds and the grain that are produced.

And we're talking about nine to 10 different sectors or industries.

So anything that, like plastics, concrete, construction material, insulation, all of the fabrics.

This shirt is made with hemp.

In the United States, industrial hemp is expected to be around a market of $6.5 billion by the year 2030.

Medical cannabis is much more, that will be, I believe around 38 and a half billion projected by 2030.

So we're still on the base level, we're still on the bottom level as far as embracing everything that the plant can provide for us.

- We'll get into the medicinal side in a little bit, but some of the biomass leftover from that, can it also be made into these products?

Is there leftover stalks and stuff that can be used kind of like hemp's being used also?

- Absolutely.

Yeah.

I've seen a lot of data and research recently about how they're able to use ground up hemp herd and inside of the stalk for aggregates for asphalt and other things that really are intensely, they degrade our atmosphere and our ecosystems.

And so we need to be looking at other alternatives that, like you said, will help heal the soil at the same time.

- And we have a lot of crop land in Kansas and as we're kind of feeling these waves out with subsidies may going away and other things, you know, 'cause a lot of our farmers we're paid to keep farming land and a lot of that was used by USAID and all that.

How good is this crop and is it easier to get into it now than it was five or six years ago to use as a rotational crop?

What kind of inputs do you need there if you're gonna switch over or even if you think you're gonna go out and become a hemp farmer overnight, because I think usually already established farms have an easier time with this.

But tell me how someone could get started in this, either route.

- Yeah, so if you're already an established farmer, you're growing, you know, whatever commodities there are, soybean, wheat, corn, there is a possibility that you could cultivate hemp with the same machinery that you have.

Changes may need to be adapted as far as harvesting for, you know, grain may require some changes to a combine head or things like that.

But overall, what we're seeing, especially with our leaders throughout the state, they are seeing that their contracting farmers are realizing this is a little bit easier than maybe they thought.

But we're talking about tall fibrous plants.

We're not talking short bushy therapeutic cannabis where, you know, we're talking about the varieties that are harvested for the grain.

- You want as big as possible because you're using it for like I say hempcrete.

Insulating fibers.

- So farmers, you know, if they wanna start small, what we suggest is maybe try converting like an acre or two or maybe five if you really wanna go that far.

But you know, you don't really need to start out large to get started.

You can just choose a small plot.

You can also partner with individuals now, companies, that can come in and either help you show how to do it or contract with you for the seed.

And then also farmers need to be, you know, cognizant and aware that they need a down the line relationship.

And so they need in place a processing contract so they know where to send their biomass once it is harvested.

- So if we get farmers farming more, how large of a business sector do we have for the actual making of products?

Like you say there's a few out there already.

How big an opportunity is there if you have these ideas or, you know, Kansas State's great with textiles, you know, they're a textile school.

Is there some way that people could make, could dive into this and you know, maybe make their livelihood off of it?

- Absolutely.

I mean we're seeing already that there are farms where their kids are starting to come back because they're excited to see a new crop that goes towards other regenerative sources.

You know, biodegradable materials.

And that in itself is an opportunity.

Kansas is suffering by losing our talent and graduates to other states.

And so this is yet another opportunity that we can hold onto some of that talent here in Kansas, like I said, the number of sectors, it is about nine to 10 different industries.

And so if you have a passion with, you know, textiles or paper or you know, any of those, there's a lot of opportunity.

- What are the laws like if I was to start a processing plant or something that made these end products, you know, coasters or something else.

Let's just say the farmers in my state are low that year and there's not enough, can hemp, not cannabis, not the medicinal, not the recreational stuff, but can hemp cross borders now to where it can go to another state for processing or final product?

- Absolutely, yeah.

If there are especially products and, okay, so lemme take this back.

As far as the regulations go, there are documents that can be in place that has the chain of custody documented.

And so from producer to producer, from processor to processor, yes.

That is protected.

Now, as far as the industrial uses.

Now if we're talking like hemp derived products or cannabis derived products where there has been a, you know, concentration or what have you, then we're talking about different regulations.

But yes, as far as like the industrial use.

- Which I think is the biggest sector opening up.

'Cause I think you shared this, these videos before and I've also seen more from K State, the hempcrete and these building materials where they put like a blow furnace blowing this far away at 900,000, I can't remember how hot, but blowing for hours.

And it never doesn't catches fire.

Let alone the molds.

And I think some soundproofing, I mean.

- Absolutely.

Yeah, we're talking about like anti-microbial, antibacterial.

It is one of the healthiest building materials they're finding.

And yes, assistant professor at K State, Michael Gibson has done some amazing things with the Hemp Casita that we brought to Topeka.

You know, there is some really exciting things just in that sector, just in the building and construction sector alone.

I'll just say there's some really exciting things in the works as well that I can't really talk about yet.

But as far as the opportunity goes, let me put this into perspective.

So there is a bioplastics company in Kansas and they have been importing all of their mass that they make product with.

They've been importing all of it because there aren't enough acres yet grown in the United States to supply their demand.

And so what I'm getting at is there's a massive opportunity here for a number of different sectors, but there has to be adoption at the same time.

And those companies are out there looking for farmers now.

- And of course we're still fighting stigmas.

'Cause there's still a lot of people hemp, you see when the picture of the plants on the lotion or something else, wacky tobacky, it's weed, it's something else.

So how are you continuing to combat that stigma to even help farmers, you know, 'cause in these small communities and you know, you go to a small church and oh, I can't believe you're growing the devil's lettuce out there.

Well, it's hemp.

It's the stuff they made ropes and sails out of.

It's, you know, what the explorers used.

So I think the founding fathers grew it.

- Yes.

- How do we still get over those stigmas today?

- So one of the things that I like to remind folks is that cannabis is like I said, a versatile plant.

It's also diverse genetically.

And a really good example is peppers.

So you can grow peppers that are not hot.

Red bell, yellow peppers.

You also have jalapenos.

They're spicy, they are genetically different.

They're both peppers.

But one is spicy, and in the same way cannabis, it does have subspecies, hemp is very low in the cannabinoid THC, what folks call marijuana or high cannabinoid content, that's a different subspecies of cannabis.

- So it's like a cousin.

- It's a cousin.

It's a cousin and dogs are the same way.

German shepherd, poodle, they're both canines.

They're different.

And so yeah, there's still stigma that we have to get over as a society.

But I think we are turning a corner as far as understanding that cannabis has been more of a friend to humanity throughout evolution than not.

And the 80 years of prohibition that the United States has experimented with really hasn't gone the way that folks maybe thought it would.

And the evidence shows that of course when you prohibit something, you increase the risk because people, if it's still in demand, people still will obtain it.

- They'll search it out.

- Yes, they will, - Black market economies emerge, the consumer's not as safe.

- Exactly, and we also know because of history that, you know, the prohibition of cannabis was on the heels of alcohol prohibition.

And so that shifted over, there were corporate exclusivities that were involved.

And I've uncovered some information that there was directly ties with Kansas in some of that because we had the temperance movement here.

And so like, there was a pretty big sentiment, but also we're talking about anti-immigration, very racist and prejudice policies that came in place to prohibit cannabis in all of its forms.

And so, you know, a lot has happened since then.

And we know better because clearly Kansas is a hundred percent surrounded now by at least medical cannabis.

- And on that note, when we get back, we're gonna speak more about some emerging sectors for the business, but also Kansas has a couple new bills, I think going again for medicinal marijuana.

So we'll talk a bit more about that.

So stick around.

You're watching "Working Capital."

(bright music) Welcome back.

We're with Kelly Rippel from Kansans for Hemp.

So there's a few different versions of bills sitting in the Kansas State House right now for medicinal, recreational, decriminalization.

Give us an overview of what's going on there.

And then I wanna talk maybe some business opportunities there that may be, depending on which sector or if any of 'em were to actually pass now or not.

'cause like you alluded to, I think we are now surrounded at least by some sort of medicinal for Oklahoma, Colorado, Nebraska.

- Yes.

- Missouri.

Let us know where we're sitting at.

- Yes.

So as far as medical cannabis is concerned, Kansas now is 100% surrounded by that access and adult use is available in Colorado and Missouri.

Missouri has actually made record numbers of sales from cannabis, especially since they legalized for adult use.

- Is that like per capita in the US?

- Yes.

Yeah, as a state and especially the timeframe that they made that in.

And undoubtedly because Kansas', a couple of Kansas' most heavily populated counties border Missouri, Kansas has contributed to those sales.

- You see the bleed.

- Yeah.

What we do know is by the numbers, there has been at least an increase of Kansans who do have a medical cannabis card registered in Missouri as well.

- Okay, just real quick, maybe you don't know this, this answer, but with Missouri, seeing those numbers go up in record sales, how are their opioids and other illegal drugs that they're worrying about?

Do you know any of those rates at all?

- I actually, it's a little early to tell, I think.

But I think that data is gonna start coming out and I have heard about as far as the number of arrests on the Kansas side, some police departments are saying that they're not having as many arrests or they're at least not arresting as many individuals for cannabis possession.

And so that's at least a start in the right direction.

Of course, what we need from a policy perspective, we need to be careful that defacto legalization where there's really nothing on the books and yet, you know, there is still an inconsistency in enforcement from county to county, that really doesn't, that's not a long-term solution.

And so that's what these three bills are kind of working to resolve.

So Senate Bill 292, 294, those are the Industrial Hemp Bills that would align state statute with federal guidelines, which has needed to happen for since 2019.

And then also medical cannabis is one of those bills as well.

Senate Bill 295 is the Decriminalization Bill that would decriminalize possession of cannabis in Kansas.

- So at least it wouldn't enforce it on the end user, but it would enforce if there's someone who would be selling or some other network set up, they could face harsh penalties.

- Yeah.

Well, as far as incarceration, Kansas is known to incarcerate the largest percentage of people more than any independent democratic country in the world.

And that's by the Prison Policy Institute.

And so the data show that we really, we favor incarceration in Kansas and it hasn't always been that way.

At one time, we had a very strong mental health and public health driven leadership as far as policy.

Policies, Minegar's, all of the institutions, KU Med, all of these institutions that we now rely heavily upon.

They treated substance use, drug use as a different societal behavior at one time.

And we really, like I said in the last 80 years, have really gone towards a punitive approach.

And we're finding out that it's not having as positive impacts as it should.

- I think part of that is in the 80s, you know, the dismantling of the mental health systems, also the privatization of a lot of prison systems.

I mean they yeah, they kind of go together.

So that's a whole different other story.

So here in Kansas are patients, should they have a little hope this year?

'Cause you know, it's one of those things where it has at least been on the books for the last few years, but it seems to always get stalled out at the last minute.

- It does.

So nothing is over until it's over, under the dome, as they say.

And the past couple years, we have seen a much larger push in momentum because of all of the different factors involved.

So when we're talking about, you know, medical cannabis, these are suffering patients.

I have close loved ones that would like to try it as an alternative to medicines that really have harsh side effects.

And we've also lost individuals over time to cancer.

And we've moved families out of state so that they can have access to proven therapies.

And so really what medical cannabis is trying to establish is a regulated system.

So doctors can have a protected relationship with their patients who are seeking that alternative therapy.

- That way they can talk about maybe an interaction that it may have with something they're on.

Any of these were to pass, well maybe not decriminalization, but medicinal, recreational.

How does that affect our farmers in our state?

Are all those products then that are used in that capacity, are they have to be grown and created within the state borders?

Or can they be imported or, you know, can someone here export if they get in that business?

- So as federal regulations stand right now, interstate commerce is not protected as far as cannabis goes.

So the high cannabinoid, you know, marijuana, so yes, the cannabis that would be consumed or sold, purchased in Kansas would have to be produced here.

- Okay.

- And that will change once federal regulations change.

- In other states, have the smaller farmers and that the local farmers been able to capitalize on this?

Or do you see big farm companies coming in who specialize this in other states and just buying crop land?

- So there are some really good examples and I won't call it a luxury, but because Kansas has waited so long to regulate cannabis, we do have a lot of examples from other states that have trying different experiments.

A lot of people like to point to Oklahoma.

They had a program that was put in place by referendum.

I mean, it was a voted in, it was a vote in ballot initiative.

They didn't have the same regulatory requirements as other states have done.

And so there has been consequences.

I think there's a lot that can be said for the way that they've changed over time and the way that they've been able to adapt to that.

But it's a lesson, right?

And so yes, there are ways that through regulation we can ensure that there is a level playing field for individuals in Kansas who want to get involved.

And yes, it can involve farmers.

I will say when we're talking about quality medical grade therapies, there has to be consistency, there has to be standard operating procedures.

It also is done very quality driven.

So like this is more than likely indoor.

It can't be exposed to the elements.

- A lot of infrastructure has to be put in place.

So there's other companies benefiting from these facilities being created.

- Exactly.

And we also need to be mindful when we're talking about producing, you know, heavily intensive cannabis for derived products, it has to be done in a sustainable way.

And there are best practices now that have been developed, especially from organizations like the Resource Research Institute and others that really have been able to focus in on the best ways to conserve water, conserve light, you know, all of these things.

So it's better for our environment.

- When Missouri went legal, I started seeing some stories and it's been a little while, so I can't remember the town's name, but I think there's a few of them where the medicinal and the recreational industry has transformed small towns that the downtown had died.

You know, it's the ones where you have two or three blocks downtown, maybe 800 to 2000 people, but they've come in with, made it back into a factory town.

All those people may not use it, they may never touch it themselves, but it's created another community.

Again, they're getting money back in their systems, they're redoing these small downtowns.

And like I say, it's like a new age factory town.

Is that something you see that could translate well to Kansas?

- I do.

What we've found is, and I've traveled to some of those states too, like I'm sure you have and it's like the sky hasn't fallen here like we've been told.

And so, but you're right, there are individuals I think that will maybe be against it.

They won't use it.

They will still see benefit in their communities.

Because like we've talked about when we were focusing on-- - [Jay] The tax base there that you're growing from that.

- I mean, yeah, the economics of it is, it speaks for itself, but also because we know these products are in demand, right?

At the same time, there is a component of, you know, we need to be mindful and educate because there can be, shall I say, you know, adverse reactions, certain populations that may be, you know, it isn't for everyone.

Not everything is for everyone.

Right?

And so this is-- - And that's across the board.

So we'll put up a little graphic 'cause addiction percentages for certain things that you may see a syntax on in general already.

So we'll kind of see how those stack out, you know, 'cause some people, they see this, they think that is gonna be so much more addictive than even alcohol.

There's bad reactions, like you say to all the stuff on this list you'll see.

But it's how you treat it.

And also I think from this, most states besides having dollars go back to schools or roads, they usually set up some sort of safety net for people falling through that helps with other drugs also.

- Absolutely.

- So they're creating programs to help with the bad side, which is already there too.

As we've talked about, those people and those symptoms are already out there.

They're just getting it from a illegal source.

- That's exactly right.

And one of the arguments that we've heard multiple times in the legislature and committees is, well we don't want that in our communities.

The reality is it is already in communities.

And the question is, you know, do you want to, like I said, regulate it, tax it, have an opportunity for people to be involved with it but also educate about it.

And one of the things that we found in other states that I think is very overlooked often is that when regulation, when you legalize, you are actually collecting more data.

There are crucial public health metrics, outcomes, impacts that are not being collected that we need to understand better.

And that requires regulation.

- That's fantastic.

Thanks for helping us with the education 'cause that is a huge part.

Whether you're for or against it, learn more about it for sure.

The recreational, the medicinal, but especially just the hemp side of it 'cause there is a lot of emerging markets, a lot of business opportunities there.

And of course that is what we're all about here on "Working Capital."

So hopefully some farmers out there find another avenue.

And Kelly, it's been great.

These products are awesome.

I can't wait to see how this keeps emerging in Kansas.

You know, we have some of the best farmers, some of the best productions, as always, good having great dialogue.

Thanks for being on the show.

- Thank you.

- I'll see you next time.

You've been watching "Working Capital."

- [Announcer] Funding for "Working Capital" is provided by the friends of KTWU, the Raymond C. and Marguerite Gibson Foundation and Go Topeka.