(bright music) - [Announcer] Additional funding is provided by the friends of KTWU.

- Welcome back to another episode of "Working Capital."

Today, we kickstart the conversation with Mike Patterson and Amanda Beach, from Historic Harley Davidson, a Topeka cornerstone since 1949.

Then we get a little dirty with Dan Hughes from Sunflower Outdoor and Bike Shop, talking about bicycles, gravel, and gear.

It's all about the business of cycles on "Working Capital."

(upbeat music) (bright music) Since 1949, the Patterson family and Historic Harley Davidson, have been a cornerstone of the motor cycling community in Northeast Kansas.

As one of the 10 oldest family owned dealerships in the nation.

Historic Harley Davidson has seen its fair share of ups and downs.

Today we have Mike Patterson and Amanda Beach, with us to talk a little about motorcycles, merchandise and the Harley Davidson culture.

Mike and Amanda, welcome to "Working Capital."

- Thanks for having us.

- Yeah, thank you.

- It's great to have you on today.

So, this journey started I think 96 years ago or so, kinda tell me how, before your family started Topeka, how did this whole motorcycle business get started?

- So we have been in Topeka for 73 years, but our history with Harley Davidson goes back even further.

Like you said, 96 years.

My grandfather was 16 years old in Grand Junction, Colorado, and he was a really good bicycle rider, he could ride a unicycle, had good balance.

He entered a bicycle contest that a bicycle company had come to promote their products.

It was a plank ride, so it was a four inch plank and you had to stay on the plank.

If you fell off, you were out.

So he rode this plank, and not only won the contest that day, he set a world record for plank riding, he rode over two miles without falling off the plank.

- Wow!

- Which made him kind of a bicycle celebrity .

And Porter Carson was the bicycle shop owner, so he hired him to work at the bicycle shop.

Well, a lot of bicycle shops in the 20s turned into motorcycle shops and the next year they took on Harley Davidson motorcycles, which he just kinda took hold of and that became his passion.

So he worked in that dealership from 1926 to 1949 and then was able to buy the dealership in Topeka in 49.

And then here we are today.

So really my time or my reason that I'm here today is because of a bicycle contest in 1926.

Pretty crazy.

- That's fantastic.

So, moved to Topeka in 49, like I say, some ups and downs with this business within that first two or three years of the business.

I mean, your grandfather went through quite a bit of struggles.

Tell us what happened there and how he how he made it through.

- Yeah, in our family we term it, hell in high water, what he went through in those first two years.

Because if you know Topeka's history, there was a hotel downtown called the Throop Hotel, and it was right next to his dealership on Kansas Avenue.

The Throop Hotel caught on fire, burnt down.

And then within a few days it actually crushed over and tumbled into his dealership and destroyed what he had.

He moved out, which was at this point out of town to Sixth and Macvicar, and set up a shop there right next to the Creek.

And if you know Topeka's history, 1951 flood.

So he was under three foot of water in the next couple years.

So, his perseverance also, you know, allowed us to still be here today.

So, he went through a lot, I'm not really sure how he made it, but he did.

- That's fantastic.

So, growing up you're round motorcycles, bicycles.

What, I mean, the business is already around you but what really drew you to two wheels?

What made it known that this was your passion as well?

- I I don't remember it not being, you know, I mean, it was just part of our family, you know.

So, my dad was into motorcycles, and family trips revolved around motorcycles races.

It was just, I think it was just part of the DNA too, you know, with generational.

So I don't really ever remember it not being, so its just always been there.

- And, you know, through the years, Harley Davidson even had a little bit of a down turn, you know, those AMF years, those, you know, that kinda switched it up.

What were those years like, as you know, you've been involved with this company for so long, their cultures, their products and merchandising, then kinda get some wrenches thrown in there until Willie Davidson, I think, came back and saved the company really.

But how does a family owned business, you know, persevere through that kinda situation?

- Well, of those 73 years, I would say a great percentage of them were a struggle, you know.

And there was many times where my grandfather was the only employee.

I mean, he was, and my dad or my uncle would go at lunch and give him a lunch break and then, you know, he would go back.

So, it was a, you know, you look at Harley Davidson now and it's a major company, stock market.

And, you know, we have a lot of employees and it's completely different, but yeah, it's not always been that way.

And I would say to answer your question, it really revolves around the loyalty with our customers.

And really also what my grandfather instilled, just taking care of customers and treating them like family.

You know, and that, you know, had we not had loyal customers through those times, you know, I'm not sure how Harley would've made it but I'm also not sure how our dealership would've made it.

So, I'm, you know, we're always thankful of our customers and we keep that in our minds today.

You know, we don't take them for granted because we're a business that's been there when we needed them.

So it's, we don't take them for granted.

- And I like how you say, you know, you treat the customers as family.

I also see you treating your employees as family, whether it's up or down, you know, depending on the staff size.

But it really is family there, you know, cause I love motorcycles, I I'll let you know that.

But you know, I stop in motorcycle museum stores all over the country.

But those big ones, while you walk in, and you're like, oh, this is new, they have so much stuff.

But they don't know you, they don't get to know you, it's not that family appeal.

So, the nice thing about your business, you know, you've set out and you've persevered for so long and people around here do know the Pattersons.

They know, you know, they know what you've brought to Topeka.

So it's just been a fantastic business for Topeka, I think it's one of the longest ones now here in Topeka, so, well, I'll tell you what.

We'll get more of this story right after break, it's time for a short break, please stay with us, you're watching, "Working Capital."

(upbeat music) Welcome back to the show.

So, the shop now where you're at, you know, this is the fourth, I think the fourth place you're at, cause for a while after Sixth Street, you guys were out on North 24 Highway.

- Highway 24, yes.

- But now this new building, it really is kind of its own beast.

So, Amanda you wanna tell me a little bit about what's all going on inside Historic Harley Davidson.

- Yeah, so we've really created more of a destination for the dealership.

Not only is it just somewhere where you can buy motorcycles, clothes, accessories, and get your bike serviced, but you can also go and have lunch, breakfast on Saturdays.

There's a grill there, there's a restoration, a restoration museum, Yesterday's Museum downstairs on the lower level.

And then we also have the Evel Knievel Museum now.

So, it's really just this place where we have tons of groups come and they'll have a whole day there at the dealership.

Where we're-- - And I think you have some bike rallies usually.

I mean-- - yeah.

- There's usually some event always on the horizon, so-- - Always on the horizon.

So yeah, we have like a lot of times we'll have Hog Rallies or CMA will do some type of event.

We have a conference room that holds all sorts of different events throughout the season.

- So we have someone who's never ridden before.

- Yeah.

- They come to you.

- [Amanda] Right.

- What do you guys have to offer to help get them on a bike?

- Yeah, so we have a Riding Academy course.

It's a four day course and you get hands on experience, we provide the motorcycle, you're out on the range.

And at the end of it you get your motorcycle license as long as you pass the two tests.

But it really is a great tool to start getting into riding.

Start there, Mike takes them on a nice tour of the dealership, introduce them to all of our staff.

So they really can go in and get that family connection that we hold kind of true to ourselves.

So yeah, it's so great.

- And you even rent out the space on occasion for events, right?

I mean, you have a meeting room, but also I think I've seen places where you've kinda just set stuff out amongst the bikes for just that kinda-- - Yeah.

- Cool fee, so-- - We do.

so now we're able, we move all the motorcycles, not all of them.

But leave some for aesthetic and put round tables out and can have an entire huge event where we've had up to like 300 people in our dealership, kind of all around.

And it really creates a cool atmosphere, they can go down and look at the old motorcycles, go into the museum, our grill is able to feed them.

So it's just, it's really that kind of experience that you just don't see anywhere else.

- My grandfather would be surprised if he came back and saw everything that's going on, from those days when it was just him to having 300 people in the dealership and having an event like that, it's kind of surreal.

- Yeah.

- And there's stuff for all ages?

I mean.

- Right.

- Literally in the shop too, just, I mean, Harley Davidson now has literal electric balance bikes.

That I saw, so I mean-- - [Amanda] Yeah.

- I would love to see a little kids racing on those, but that's amazing.

So I mean, there is really something for everyone inside this.

- [Amanda and Mike] Yes.

- What's on the horizon here?

What do you guys, you have any special rallies?

You, what do you guys see in the future here?

- Well, we just wanna keep doing what we're doing.

You know, I mean, it's, we said 73 years we're always learning.

I don't think we ever would say we have it completely figured out.

So, you never know what's around the corner.

We have an amazing team of people that work there.

That's something we work on every day as well.

You know, our average length of time with our employees is over 15 years.

- [Jay] That's fantastic.

- Which is kind of unheard of in any business, but especially the motorcycle business, it's about a year and a half.

So we have people that know what they're doing, they like what they're doing.

And, you know, every day is a challenge.

So.

- And like you say, you've made a good family there.

And a lot of the guys that people can't see are your mechanics downstairs.

And you guys just don't service, you know, my new Harley, you guys do a lot of restoration work.

Tell me about that part of it.

- So our service guys, they're like our rock stars, you know.

They have talents that are unbelievable.

And when we get these guys in we do our best to keep them.

And we have a couple of guys that have been there almost 30 years now.

So they've seen a transition in motorcycles over that time from carburetors to electronic fuel injection.

But we still do embrace our history and we work on bikes back to 1903.

So we do projects for people, literally all over the country where they send us their vintage bikes.

And we're kind of premier Harley Davidson dealership in the country that does restoration work, which has given us the opportunity to do some really cool projects.

Like we did the job for Jerry Lee Lewis, and that also led to the Evel Knievel items too, with our restoration.

- That's fantastic.

So, with the merchandise and everything, it's not being a smaller shop, you know, not like one of these big walk into almost like a shopping mall.

- [Mike] Yeah.

- But you kinda have to cater what merchandise you carry in the store.

So Amanda, how do you decide looking through, I mean, Harley Davidson merchandise, there is so much of it.

- [Amanda] It's a lot.

- How do you decide what to carry in kind of that flow in the actual store?

- Yeah, so it's really like knowing your customer and knowing the demographic and really getting to decide what they're gonna want, what might they think that they don't really need or want but they might want, and just really getting into that niche.

That's what makes Harley Davidson so different and unique is that every dealership is different, no matter where you're going to you're not gonna see the same stuff at any of them.

So you really get to know your customer, and that's where it comes down to having these people that, like our employees that work so long.

We do know our customer and we're gonna know what they want.

And that's what makes the job so much fun.

- I will say Historic Harley Davidson knocks that out of the park.

So.

- Thank you.

Thank you both Mike and Amanda for being with us today.

- I appreciate it.

- [Amanda] Okay.

- It's time for another short break.

When we return, we'll meet Dan Hughes from Sunflower Outdoor and Bike Shop.

Stick around, you're watching, "Working Capital."

(upbeat music) Welcome back.

Sunflower Outdoor and Bike Shop, has served the Lawrence and surrounding communities since 1972.

It started its life as an Army-Navy surplus store.

And over the years, it added outdoor clothing, equipment and bicycles as the staffers' outdoor interest grew.

Now it is one of the nation's best bike shops, while still offering a huge selection of outdoor gear.

Joining us today is Dan Hughes, president of Sunflower Outdoor and Bike Shop.

Welcome to "Working Capital" Dan.

- Thank you, Jay Hurst, privilege to be here.

- So, this story to me, it's one of the staples in Lawrence.

I mean on Mass Street, it's been there quite some time.

How did you find the store and how did you get involved with it?

- Well, you're absolutely right.

I mean, Lawrence is pretty steeped in history, and Sunflower Outdoor and Bike Shop has been a part of that history down there for 50 years now, this year.

My coming to the store was an interesting arc.

I was a KU student going to school there and getting my degree in anthropology.

And that was okay, but I was having more fun getting people out on bikes or out on a hike or playing disc golf or whatever they would have wanted to do outdoors.

And so once I graduated from KU, it just was much more interesting to me to be in there helping those people get their adventures started.

So that's when I started there in 89, and eventually made my way through all the various roles in the organization until the early 2000s, when the founders, Dave and Sue Millstein were ready to do something else with their lives and their kids didn't have a huge interest in it.

And so they sold it to Karla and I, at that point and acted as our mentors for quite a while.

And we've owned it for 20 something years now.

So that's my arc through Sunflower.

- Now, to me, Lawrence, has always been a little different community, kinda progressive, but I mean, it's the outdoor sports and all have always been kind of a staple there.

I mean, it's the first place I played disc golf.

Could Sunflower have stayed this long in any other community here in Kansas, you think?

- Well, it's interesting, you know, I think if people were to look at the United States and think about the major outdoor recreation spots in the country, I don't think Kansas comes in in the top half of that list.

People think of the mountains, they think of Boulder, they think of the oceans, that sort of thing.

But I think for people who are really passionate about the outdoors, there's a huge number of experiences for them to have in the State of Kansas.

So, you've gotta look a little harder to find them, but they're there.

And Lawrence is certainly welcoming of that sort of spirit.

Could Sunflower have existed someplace else?

It would've been tough, but we have a great building, we have a great community and great people working there.

So, I think it's a pretty good mix for success in that way.

- So, and the store started off as Navy, Army-Navy surplus, kind of moved to outdoor gear.

But really, I mean, people go in there for lots of stuff, but you guys are really known as a bike shop.

- [Dan] Sure.

- And a lot of people these days, you know, they have their bicycle at home, but there's so many styles of bikes, especially in thinking about some of those great Kansas rides and Kansas races.

Can you talk to us about kind of some of the styles of the bikes?

You know, you have your cruiser, you have your mountain bike, but I know cyclo cross is really picking up.

- [Dan] Absolutely.

- Let us know some differences in that and what you kinda offer and how someone can enjoy the outdoors with those styles.

- Yeah, bikes obviously come in a number of different shapes and sizes and wheel sizes.

The two most explosive growth categories in the bike industry in the last several years have been either e-bikes or gravel bikes.

And we obviously do both of those.

At Sunflower, gravel is something that we have a ton of here in the State of Kansas.

And it's really, it's honestly very gratifying that a lot of times the bike industry things start on the coasts and then they eventually percolate their way into the Midwest.

But gravel is really a Midwest construct, It kind of started here and has taken over a lot of disciplines.

So, really, however, you wanna get to some place by, you know, two wheels, we're gonna be in favor of it.

But Kansas for sure lends itself to the gravel experience.

And then on the other side of that e-bikes, which are a mobility kind of story, you know, nobody wants to get to work and be drenched in sweat in a Kansas summer.

So if you've got a little extra boost to get there, that makes a huge difference.

- That's great.

So your segments, you're also doing outdoor gear.

I mean, everything from hiking boots to tents to kayaks.

I know I've bought some climbing gear in there before-- - [Dan] Sure.

- when I used to do rigging.

So-- - [Dan] Yeah.

- Tell us about some of your other offerings there and kind of how that, how do you decide kind of what to focus on?

- Yeah, it's an interesting evolution of the business.

You know, when Dave and Sue started it in 1972, Dave's dad did an Army-Navy surplus business in Kansas City.

Dave was a varsity hammer thrower for the University of Kansas.

So, you know, that crazy field event where they're swinging the thing around your head and tossing it out in the field.

That's what he did, but he was also a business man.

And the surplus business offered, Dave would've told you that the number one item that Sunflower ever sold was a pair of Army-Navy exercise shorts that he bought in bales of 10,000.

And then he bought them for 25 cents a piece and then sold them for $2 a piece.

And the KU kids obviously were like, $2 shorts, that's a deal.

And Dave was like a buck 75 in margin is pretty good.

So it's been an evolution, basically the categories that we've added and subtracted over the years have really been at the behest of whoever the advocate for it is on the staff.

If you have somebody on the staff that's really into disc golf, really into stunt kites, really into roller blades.

I'm trying to think of all the things we've carried over the years.

If we have a champion of that discipline on staff, then we're excited about it.

I think that's one of the coolest things, just from the inception, you know, the how the original owners, now you, yeah, you embrace your employees and their passions and interests kinda help propel your store along into new ventures.

So, fantastic way to kinda run that business.

- Yeah, and it's truly a collaborative effort there.

I mean, I can sit here and be the president of Sunflower Outdoor and Bike, but it's really the entire team there that is over the 50 year history of the place that has brought it to where it is today.

So we wouldn't be anywhere if, we wouldn't be where we are today without them or the support of the community.

- It's time for another short break, we'll be right back.

(upbeat music) Welcome back.

Let's get a little dirty with Dan.

So, one of your segments is kind of some technical riders, I mean.

Kansas is becoming the Mecca for dirt and gravel races.

So tell us a little about the racing here in Kansas and why it's so good and kinda how these new bikes are really handling this.

- Yeah, so the gravel category, which I said earlier is kind of a Midwestern thing.

It really is based on equal parts exploration, obviously testing yourself against some incredibly long distances.

And then really experiencing the beauty that Kansas has to offer.

I think a lot of folks, especially if they come from someplace else in the country, I think they come into Kansas with some pretty low expectations of what to expect.

And they come and they get literally and figuratively blown away by the beauty of the place.

So the biggest race in the gravel segment is obviously "Unbound 200."

It started its life as "DK 200" in 2006, with 34 riders of which I was one.

And now its grown to the point where there are thousands of people that descend on Kansas to take in the Flint Hills.

And I think for a lot of those riders, you know, whether they're doing the 50, the 100, the 200 or the 350 mile distance, they're obviously testing themselves.

Sometimes they're testing each other, you know, there's always a component that are racing for the win.

But more than that it's about surviving.

And the thing I love about it is going through the peaks and valleys of the experience.

You have some low moments, you have some high moments.

You come out the other side kind of a changed person.

So, and I think people that come from other parts of the country don't understand that you can be out in the middle of Flint Hills and you might be the only, there might be 700 head of livestock out there somewhere, but you might be the only person for miles.

And that's a new experience for them.

So having it be a Midwestern thing is very gratifying.

And then of course the bike industry always wants to figure out a new bike to sell.

So they come up with a bike that's purpose built for those sorts of conditions and really allow you to get to, from point A, point B comfortably.

- Now, has the racing here in Kansas, I mean, has it kinda pushed the technology, I mean, have the makers been looking at what's been going on here?

Are we kind of at the forefront then?

- Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, every year the "Unbound 200 Race" is generally held on the first weekend after Labor Day, Memorial Day, it's in June.

I can't remember which one it is.

But it's always the first weekend in June.

And during that time, not only do you have racers descending on the state, but you have engineers and designers from all these bike companies that show up trying to get a finger on the pulse of what the next thing is gonna be, what the next new widget is gonna be.

So there have been a lot of great ideas that have pushed product innovation out of Kansas, which is kind of unique in the bike industry.

- And you have to be such a, I mean, anyone can do these, like you say, there's some shorter routes too, but-- - [Dan] Absolutely.

- 200, 300, 350 miles of biking takes some pretty extreme athletes.

- It does, and it takes more than anything.

It takes commitment and it takes a training regimen and it takes a support crew, whether that's your spouse or, you know, somebody else that's out there to make sure your wheels keep turning forward.

But the thing I love about it is that a lot of times people wake up on January 1, of any given year and they set themselves some goals.

And I think those goals should frighten you a little bit.

And so throwing yourself out there, whether it's a 25 mile ride or a 350 mile ride, it's different for everybody, but being challenged by that and not being sure of what's gonna happen is it provides motivation.

And I think that's amazing.

- And I've seen in the last, I think starting in 2019, they have the National Interscholastic Cycling Association.

- [Dan] Absolutely.

- Which has taken off, so high school age kids kinda more of a club sport, cause not every high school can support it.

So, but they're forming teams and then going out to races.

I know we had a one in Topeka here in the last few months, tell us how that's kinda taken off.

- NICA is, and you're absolutely right, it's the National Interscholastic Cycling Association.

Think of it as high school mountain biking, except it's for kids sixth grade to 12th grade.

And it is literally the future of the sport.

It's getting kids out on bikes in a competitive sort of way, but really it's more about celebrating the entire team.

So last weekend they had a race in, at Palen Farms out in Beloit, Kansas.

And a couple weekends they will have one in Fort Scott.

They've got one, they're coming back to Topeka this year, they'll have one in Lawrence.

And another one, I can't remember the, it's basically the roster of kids is expanding.

We went from four teams, so I think we have eight or nine now.

And then the venues are also expanding and having, I can tell you that everybody that is a rider of my age or your age that I've talked to, a person always says, man, I wish we had that when I was in high school.

And so it's really about getting kids on bikes and making them rider for life.

- Build on that confidence?

- [Dan] Absolutely.

- So we're almost out of time, but what's your favorite area to ride in this state?

I mean, if you had to go just to trails, not worrying about gravel roads, but if you had some trails to pick, do you have a favorite?

- I'm really a big fan of the Switchgrass trail system outta Lake Wilson.

- [Jay] That place is fantastic.

- It's the only IMBA, International Mountain Biking Association, IMBA EPIC rated trail in Kansas.

- [Jay] I did not know that.

- And it is, again, people don't think of Kansas as being that sort of recreational state, but it's not like you're even riding in Kansas.

It's amazing out there.

- [Jay] Yeah.

- And they do a great job of maintenance.

The wind is always blowing out there at Lake Wilson.

Back from the days when we sold sail boards at Sunflower, we know that.

- It used to be one of the biggest hang gliding spots in the state.

- Yeah, it's always ripping out there.

So yeah, those trails are amazing and it's a short drive, so that's my favorite place to ride in the state.

- Fantastic, well, thanks for being on and I'm sure I will begin to look for some new bikes here soon.

So -- - Sounds awesome, thanks much.

- Well, that's it for tonight's show.

I'd like to thank Mike Patterson and Amanda Beach, from Historic Harley Davidson, along with Dan Hughes from Sunflower Outdoor and Bike shop for being with us this evening.

As always, if you know of interesting businesses or management techniques, we wanna hear from you.

So give us a call, drop us an email, or send us a letter.

We look forward to hearing from you, see you next time and thanks for watching.

It's all about business, and you've been watching "Working Capital."

(upbeat music) - [Announcer] Additional funding is provided by the friends of KTWU.