- Funding for Working Capital is provided by the Friends of KTWU and Go Topeka.

- Welcome back to Working Capital Today.

I'm pretty excited because this couple who have started this business we're talking about today, I kind of found their product just doing my own shopping, actually on a peg in a local store.

Not like the internet these days where you find most of your products, though I think probably most of their customers comes that way now.

But Helmet flare out of Lawrence, Kansas, so I'm happy today to have Sean and Jess Maple with me.

Thanks for coming guys.

This is so cool.

You know, it pretty much because of the packing machine, I didn't figure it was a, a localized product, you know?

'cause a lot of times when we have startups around here, you know, you're starting at the, the local fair or something else.

It's, it's pretty primitive.

It's off your own printer maybe.

But it was so fleshed out.

I mean, it it did, it took me back, like in Lawrence, this is pretty cool.

I've gotta check this out.

So tell me guys, helmet player, where was the inspiration?

How'd you guys come up with this?

- Sean's the inventor.

I'll let him give the - Answer here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So this, this is well over 10 years ago, so this is a while ago.

I, you know, I found myself thinking, how do you encourage people to wear helmets in a, in a way that's more organic than a law?

Because I personally don't really believe in helmet laws.

I don't believe there should be a law that says, Hey, you need to make a good decision.

- You should be smart enough to make that decision on your own.

You - Should be smart enough.

And also, hey, if I'm trying to get you to wear a helmet, I think I could be more creative and do it through making a really rad product and make the helmet so cool that you're just gonna wanna wear it because it looks cool.

Right?

So this has been rattling around in the back of my mind for a while, but then it hit this point where I had to know whether it was gonna succeed or not.

'cause you know, sometimes you have an idea and it'll stick around for a day, you know, and it was like, that was a great idea on the bar stool.

But then you wake up the next morning and it really isn't that great.

Or you think about it for a week, or you think about it for a month.

This was an idea I couldn't shake for so many years.

And at some point you just need to know what's gonna happen.

And with, with this, it's like, well it's, let's give it a whack.

And if it turns out that what I think is a good idea is not actually a good idea, at least I'll know and I'll be able to sleep knowing what the answer is.

And if it turns out it is a good idea, then a bunch of people will be stoked that this new product exists in the world.

And great.

And I'll also know that, okay, that was a good idea.

That should have happened.

So some of it is feeling like a conduit for something more so than some ego-centric whatever.

It's like this I, this product, this idea just needed to be here.

And I'm happy to be the way that it shows up.

You know?

- Okay.

So you keep waking up in the middle of the night.

It's just, it's, it's in your mind.

It's in your mind.

First prototype.

I mean, do you prototype it first or did you approach, probably approach your wife, probably approach friends.

Like, Hey, does this sound cool?

I mean, how did you r and d this before you actually started selling?

- So this was, this was before we had even met.

I had been thinking about this and, and, and doing a little bit of prototyping.

At first it was, I took a piece of clay and I molded it into a, a horn.

What you see now is the large horn.

Okay.

I just made it outta clay.

Yeah.

And then this was early days of 3D printing and 3D scanning and whatnot.

So I had a friend of mine who was up in Fort Collins at CSU and he worked in the 3D printing lab at the school.

And I said, Hey, can you, can you take this thing and reproduce a bunch of 'em for me?

So he took it, he scanned it and he was like, yeah, yeah, I, I I can do this.

And, and he made, he kind of smoothed it out a little bit and made me the first 3D printed prototype.

I didn't know how to attach it yet.

And that was the biggest thing to, to figure out is how to attach it effectively.

And that's what took really a majority of the engineering design time is just how to safely and effectively attach something to a safety device.

It's just, it's kind of hard.

Yeah.

- Yeah.

So for, for the first iterations, when you think of this, is it strictly product on the helmet?

'cause you have kind of a specialized system now for some you have a softies line is, which, you know, little kids, bicycles, you know, you think you're not gonna hurt something if, if it, you fall off.

It's not hard.

But this harder, your ones that are for, you know, mountain biking, maybe motorcycling, ats, lower speeds, you have a different kind of attachment.

So where along the line did that come from?

I mean, at various, was it just, we're just gonna stick these on?

Or were you already thinking something where you can switch it out - There?

There were some experimenting with just different adhesives.

There was some thought about using like a high, high strength Velcro because they make industrial velcros that are, you know, not like what you'd have on - Clothes.

Like NASA grade, - NASA grade Velcro.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So there was some playing around with that.

And also with a twist lock, kind of like the, like the quad lock that you see.

So that's like a mechanical attachment because it's material against material.

So we went through all this stuff and in the end the, the magnet has the most consistent pull force and it's predictable.

So that's why that just seemed to be the best path to go down.

And it's not perfect.

It's not perfect because if you take the helmet and you just drop it, or if you smack it off, it's gonna come off.

But it's a safety device.

So.

So that attachment should be designed to come off in an impact, right?

Yes.

So the helmet does its job properly?

Yes.

And that's how we were able to get a patent for that technology because nobody had thought to use high strength magnets as a way to attach things to helmets because of that breakaway Yeah.

Technology.

- So, 'cause I'm sure there's probably someone before who has made their own helmet, attach something to it, epoxy adhesive, something else.

But if you take that absolutely that fall, yeah, you fall a certain way, snap your neck or something.

There's a lot of, there's a lot of safety involved.

So hundred percent hit a - Tree or whatever it is - And it can concentrate the four.

So what's nice about the magnetos?

So that's what you have there.

They're really popular with motorcycle folks because when, when I was prototyping and testing this, the large horns, I tested them up to 110 miles an hour and they were fine.

So wind alone won't knock off the horn, but if you do have an impact, it will come off.

So that was the engineering challenge.

Can it withstand wind but also come off when you really want it to come off?

- So how much fun was the miles per hour testing?

I mean, did you do wind tunnel or is this Oh, no, no, this out in Canada.

The Canadian highways or he, he bought - A motorcycle - Just for testing.

You bought a motorcycle, did - Just - For testing.

Yeah, - It was a, yeah, it was a really junky 1995 Kawasaki ninja.

It was an 1100.

So I knew it could go fast - Enough.

- Yeah, yeah.

But man, this was a dumpy bike and so that's all I needed it for.

So I owned it.

For what?

How?

- Oh, it was in the number of months.

- Just enough to, I'm not sure.

- Like we probably could have - Rented a bike.

Probably could have rented a bike.

Yeah, a little, because I had to register and all this stuff and I had no intention of keeping this on to ride forever.

But that's how I deter.

And I'm not a speed freak.

Yeah.

Speed is not my thing.

Yeah.

Some people love the sport by guys.

For me, going 110 was like, okay, I checked it off the list.

I can say I have tested this.

And they didn't even turn.

I kind of figured that them starting up - And the win, which yeah, at least turn around they'd see Wow.

- No they didn't.

And that was the prototype one.

So, and we were - Both riding up the mountain.

You, - They didn't turn from the pro, like from the prototype.

Correct.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, so the first reiteration was with the magnets, that was kind of the start.

Or did you try first with, like you said you tried some adhesive first, but then how long till you came to this?

I mean, how many the, the months or weeks - Or, well, getting to the idea of it being a magnet versus all of the other ways to attach it.

That was a decision that had to happen very early on in the prototyping phase because otherwise you go far enough down the path of any of those options, you've wasted a ton of time.

So that was one of the first questions to answer was magnet or mechanical or adhesive or Velcro.

And then from there, figure everything else out.

So the, the magnet decision was actually quite early on in the, in the proper prototyping.

And then from there, God, there was hundreds of tweaks of just the, the pitch and the, you know, 0.1 millimeter here, an angle here, strength of the magnet, thickness of the material.

So there was a lot of tweaking once that magnet decision was made.

- That's great.

When we come back, we're gonna find out what your flare is.

So stick around.

You're watching Working Capital.

Welcome back to Working Capital.

Alright, so let's figure out some of these different flair styles.

We're still talking about prototypes.

And actually let, let's start first one way.

You tell me in, in our, in our little break, one way you kind of knew, I think this was gonna be a hit you made, you made a prototype for, for her.

So tell me a little bit about that story and how just, I mean to me, like you, you kind of knew it was gonna be a hit from there, I think just from all the people wanting that.

So tell me a little bit about that.

- Well, - Yeah, well we went on a ski trip and Sean says, what's your favorite color?

And I said, purple.

And he shows up with a bunch of flare, big old bag of it.

And he's asking all of their friends.

We've got about 17 people in this condo.

And he's like, all right, who wants to get flair on their helmet?

And nobody, nobody was taking it.

And I go down and I'm like, let's go.

And he puts, he gives me a naral, it's very large.

And I walked down, I'm like, I'm a unicorn and check it out.

And everyone was like, yes, I'm in.

So we hooked up about 10 different people with it and we went out on the mountain and people were like super stoked and we knew it was good 'cause he, they weren't saying cool helmet.

They said, where do I get it?

- That's awesome.

- They wanted to go on Amazon.

Yeah.

- Like him, like, like can I pull it up on my phone please?

Did you buy - It at the shop down there?

'cause we all want it.

- Yeah.

So this is the kind of feedback that was really handy in the beginning.

Yeah.

When you're prototyping and not just prototyping, but also doing kind of field research prototyping.

Yeah.

Which is I guess its own category of thing.

Yes.

And yeah, that weekend Steamboat was just so handy.

'cause Jess's crew having a whole crew of people all with different designs, different colors out on the mountain, it was really easy to spot each other, which was fun in the lift line.

It's like, oh, there's all the unicorns, - There's our party.

Yeah.

Together.

You - Know, - And then if we split up, they'd be like, I just saw your friends on the other side of the mountain.

We're like, cool.

Where, where are they?

- Yeah.

What color horns were they wearing?

Oh, oh, the blue.

Okay, great.

Yeah, we know who that is.

- So something in big parties, is there anything coming up where like, you know, you hook from one to the other, like a little tiara for a bridesmaid going down the mountain?

Yeah, - That would be fun.

See we're, we're just going to keep - Taking, logging that away.

- We're logging all these ideas away.

Yeah.

- But let's talk about some of these other prototypes.

'cause we're not just about the, the narwhal horns.

And I do love the, the Viking or I like 'em 'cause it kind of remind me of bison being here in Kansas by Sure.

But let's talk about some of this that you create and how do you decide what's gonna be a popular product - Y you think, you know, you think you know, and then you start selling it and then you realize maybe you don't know.

Is is the tricky part because we tested tons of different colors on the 3D printer because when you're 3D printing, you get a spool of material for 20 bucks.

Yeah.

So sure, let's make a bunch of orange ones.

Big deal.

It's fine, it's easy.

Get, let's make some green ones.

So when you've got all these options for colors, at some point you need to narrow it down.

'cause you can't come out of the gate as a company with a hundred skews for a new product that's never existed before.

So it was really, really hard to narrow that down.

You're right because, and it was mainly because of colors, right?

'cause colors are pretty easy to scale.

Shapes are very expensive, right?

Yeah.

So like just the molds to make the shapes that we have, you know, our investment was 80 to a hundred thousand dollars in just molds.

Wow.

That was before anything was manufactured, you know?

So if you're gonna make a new shape, it's a financial commitment.

Significant.

I mean, you're talking $15,000 to make the mold.

So how many of those units do you need to sell in order to make up just, just pay for the cost of the mold, much less make any money after that.

So that's why Yeah, it's, it's, it's a tricky thing.

We knew the large horns fine.

That's definitely gonna go small horns for sure.

Unicorn.

I was pretty confident in kitty years.

Kitty years.

Definitely kitty years were definitely gonna be a winner.

Kitty years.

The banana.

Okay.

So the banana was an afterthought with design.

And I asked my designer, I say, Hey, can you take a banana and take the top third and the bottom third and just remove the middle third and same thing.

Make it compatible with these bottoms.

And he is like, yeah, no sweat.

So he whips up a banana for me and I put it on a helmet and I was elated.

And when people would see the banana, they would just start giggling.

And I'm like, okay, this is really cool because it makes people so happy to see a banana through your head.

It's just really funny.

Yeah.

So I kept pushing and it made me so stoked to see this banana on people's head.

So I was like, all right, we gotta do the banana 'cause it's so funny.

And you know, I thought it'd be a big hit and it really doesn't sell doesn't - Sell.

- No.

And that's it in person.

- It does.

Okay.

Oh yeah, yeah, - Yeah.

- And at certain events like Rag Bri, it does excellent.

Sure.

Yeah.

In a shop, not not so great.

- Yeah.

Motorcycle people see the banana, they don't really know what to do with it.

Yeah.

They're confused.

Too funky.

It's too - Weird.

More more bicyclists and, and, and little kids and, and that, yeah.

- Yeah, exactly.

- Clowns, trying clowns, you know, they do have some that's - Pretty perky, not, not as big a market as we would've thought.

- No, probably not.

- The the clown helmet market.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

So, okay.

But that, that did come to market though.

Yes.

- So yes.

Correct.

- Can you talk about maybe a design that did not make it to market that you're finally like, this is gonna be good, it's gonna be good, but it did hit with you.

You're like, no, no too much involved for too much money for this.

- Okay.

So yes, shark fin is a very commonly requested shape and I get it.

You know, whether you like Jimmy Buffett or not, shark fins are cool.

Yeah.

Now the issue is that when with Magneto anyway, when you have a magnet base and you have the thing stuck on top, you're fine.

If you're going straightforward.

Yeah.

If you turned your head, you pretty much have it set, - It's gonna sail.

Yeah.

It's just gonna - Just a sail and it's gonna smack off or it's - Gonna, - It's - Gonna turn, it's just gonna pop off.

Yeah.

So the reason why that didn't happen, it was just a practical engineering thing that it just wouldn't work.

There would be too many people who would lose the, the shark fin.

That being said, it can be revisited.

Yeah.

Now that we're making these soft squishy ones.

Right.

So sometimes it's about, okay, how are you manufacturing it?

How does the product work and does that design fit there?

Yeah.

- The shape shape fit there.

Yeah.

Because like, like the, the shark fin to me, you know, if it's that big in sailing, you know, two magnets if you're going the magnet route type of deal.

But then the problem is hard helmets.

So if a hard thing you, everything's different.

So the softies - Softies would be the way to go Yeah.

With that.

So yeah.

And then the, even the unicorn, this what Jess was saying, this was a very early prototype and this was just the first whack at it.

And we refer to this as the narwhal nowadays to differentiate it from the unicorn.

Because if you see, this is how it started and this is how it ended up.

So you're talking an extra inch of height and these took a while - To get there.

- Yeah.

These are all of the different prototypes.

So we've got 10 prototypes before we ended up with the final design.

Right.

So this one, I don't know, you look at these and they all look pretty silly, but they were necessary on the path to get to the final, the final place - You have to be able to pull out of the mold for injection molding and things like that as well.

Yes.

So - Correct.

Yeah.

Yeah.

- It's not just as simple as looking at the shape - A lot of the times.

So is the unicorn and the narwhal both a product now?

Or is the narwhal just that was just the, so that would be the, yeah, - This was one - That didn't make it.

So, you know, in 20 years this is the one that's gonna be worth the most.

Right.

What, what I'm curious about real quick too though, you know, corn, the co - That's, that's gonna - Come, it's coming.

So products in development, correct.

- It's gonna be a softies.

So I'll have to show you the Softies - Collection.

That's very cool.

That's - A 3D printed prototype that will be soft.

Now that one, guess what it's called?

- I'm not even gonna guess.

- Okay.

It's the uni corn.

- Okay.

I mean I got, you know, yeah.

I love a, a pun.

Oh that's great.

Yeah, - That's great.

So you're just gonna peel and stick it right on the front.

I think it's gonna do very well at Rag Bri.

Yeah.

Which is in Iowa there's a lot of corn.

Yeah.

It'll do well in Nebraska.

Corn, Huskers, et cetera.

So that one, that's an experiment for a new, a new shape.

So that, that'll be exciting to see how that goes.

- It's pretty cool.

And I mean, is this coming to market or is this an old prototype?

Like, no, a little too much cost.

- So kind of both the, the patent that we have for this technology of using a magnet to attach things to a helmet, it includes not just the decorative tops, which we have now, but also incorporating lights.

So this one has a magnet activated switch so that that turns on when it's in proximity to magnetism.

That that's pretty cool.

So that's part of the patent as well as having a, a battery built into the helmet, which would provide power to these nubbins.

So this way you don't have to have a battery in the tops.

So you could just have a bulb, let's say, or Bluetooth speakers or turn signals or a headlight if you're a cyclist, so that you can find your way home.

And all you have to do to charge any of your things is just take your helmet inside, just plug it in.

- Oh, that's - Awesome.

So that's, that's all part of the patent.

So it's just a question of whether we're gonna do any of that, like how soon we're gonna do any of that.

We're self-funded, you know, we run the business outta the spare bedroom.

So we're gonna develop new product lines as we have money to do so, you know, that's great.

So that's kind of how it goes.

- Stick around when we get back, we're gonna talk a little bit more about a few other products and we're gonna talk about how they get around to marketing helmet fla.

So glad you're with us, we'll see you after the break.

Welcome back.

Okay, Sean, just a little tiny bit more on the RD.

You talked about patents.

Yeah.

Tell me a tiny bit about that process and how painful or how simplified it has become.

- It's not that bad if you have a good patent attorney.

Okay.

Who can, who can walk you through the process, hold your hand.

A lot of technical drawings that had to come from the designer that I worked with in order to whatever, adhere to the standards of the patent office.

Took about a year to get past the provisional patent and get into a official patent.

They send you a really neat little book that's got all the things in it and there's a gold seal on the front.

It's really nifty.

Yeah.

I gotta say, gotta kick out - Of it.

So you got a little bit of something for your money then, right?

It's - Not, not cheap yet.

I'll say bragging - Rights.

No, there you go.

- Yeah.

And, and to give you an idea for, for this product, I'm not sure how it varies with different products, but we spent, I don't know, 10, 12,000 total on between attorney fees and filing fees with the patent office.

So, - So, so once you have your initial patents, probably for the magnetic and everything else, do you have to put a new patent in every time you come up with a new attachment?

Or do you have it kind of a, a boiler plate to where different things will fit on that?

So your patent's actually just the attachment, - The, the patent that we submitted is quite broad.

We're only utilizing maybe 20% of the total patent right now.

The other 80% is just sitting there.

And maybe someday we will do it or maybe we will not and it will just go with the company and that's okay.

That's very cool.

- Yeah.

Well, so we get RD we get 'em made, your, your business name.

Is there all, how do you decide on marketing these days?

Especially as a startup, you have a product that needs to be on shelves or needs to be some retailer, whether online, some brick and mortar.

How do you figure out your mix and, and what is your mix?

How are you doing this?

'cause like I say, I found you at the local Harley shop on a peg where I know most people are going online these days.

So tell me a little bit about that.

Yeah, - Well we started online and we were just selling on our website.

And then we moved to Amazon.

Once we started on Amazon we sold five times the amount pretty - Much.

Oh wow.

Day - Of Oh, that, from there we, well we were in a different packaging that was very homemade.

It was, it was a little box.

It had kinda like a wrap with Yeah, yeah.

Simple.

We knew that if we wanted to get into retail, which we did want to do, we went to a, do a whole new branding.

So we redid all of the packaging, worked with a branding agent.

Yeah.

And that's how we got all the characters.

And then we started retail, kind of just walking into the stores and getting to know people and it takes a lot of energy to do it.

So I'm happy that you found them there.

It's awesome.

And the splits around 80% online.

Really?

80% on Amazon.

Five 10 on our website and 5% in person.

5% is retail right now.

- So then for people finding out where those are at, like the Instagram, the Facebook, yeah.

How do you decide that mix or you just hitting all of them and are you tracking them?

Which campaign we work with ans agency that's doing that - As well.

So see - A lot of, - So we have somebody else managing our Facebook ads.

- I think that's great to hear though.

'cause a lot of small businesses when they're starting up and there is cost involved, but a lot of 'em think they have to do it themselves, but there are places who can help and they, they kind of scale with small businesses, whether it's your customer management or, or any of that stuff.

So it's good to hear that you guys are utilizing that, everything from your graphics.

Right.

So, so the new graphics of this, you utilize someone.

And so how does that process work?

Do you, is it kind of a symbiotic thing with when you're a small business with these other firms or is it, I mean, you're just, you're just a numbered client.

- So with our branding guy, Chris Cox out of Fort Collins, Colorado, he is the one who helped us with all of our branding.

And we met him through a friend.

So a friend of a friend and started to chat.

And - It's great when you can, when you can get a team.

'cause then you may know what you want, but having people that are a little better in, in different spots, you know, being in good general makes a better product I think in the end.

So it's kind of good finding finding that mix.

- Yeah.

And ultimately we're not professionals in all of these areas.

So yeah, we could, we could piece together things as much as we could, but - Just the end smart enough to find the top that you need in each of the areas that you're looking - For.

Exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

Find people that are, that's their, that's their niche, so let 'em do it.

- Right.

So what's, what's on the horizon?

We know more styles as we're hearing here, but is there, is there any other branching out or, or anything new coming up?

- Yeah, well we have the unicorn, which I think we already talked about.

We also have some new colors that we're working on.

So we're working on a blue and a purple.

- Oh, that's very cool.

- That we'll work with and do limited release runs.

- That's cool.

And as you can kinda see the setup here, mentioned it a little bit, but you guys do go to events.

What?

So people can see this van, if you see the van, you can probably chase you down and maybe find a product, or at least you'll tell 'em and just pull your phone and go to Amazon.

But - Our next event will be in KC That's true.

On four 20 with the Sport Bike Society.

- Yep.

Kansas City Sport Bike Society, their season opener.

- Oh, that's awesome.

- Yep.

Very cool.

Jay who runs it, he'll be there with, it's called a Dino, right?

Where - They, yes.

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

You can see your horsepower and your st - Totally.

So that's what he does.

Yeah, he, he, he tunes bikes.

So, so - You're gonna, you're gonna buy your old bike back, you're gonna wrap it like the van, right?

For this event and Yeah.

No, no, we're just - Gonna go there and hang out.

The sport bike folks are a ton of fun.

They're really laid back.

It's a nice crowd to be around.

It's good energy.

So yeah, we're excited for that event coming up.

Yep.

That's - Awesome.

Well, thank you both for being with us today.

It's been a pleasure.

These things are so cool.

We wish you the best of luck, so appreciate it.

- Thank you.

Thanks.

- We're glad you guys stuck around today.

We hope you found some flare that brightens up your life.

So thanks for watching Working Capital.

We'll see you next time.

- Funding for Working Capital is provided by the Friends of KTWU and go Topeka.