(bright music) (electricity sizzling) - [Announcer] Funding for "Working Capital" is provided by the Friends of KTWU and Go Topeka.

(gentle upbeat music) (bright music) - Welcome back to "Working Capital."

Today, we're gonna talk about something that's pretty stressful for a lot of people, because you don't know who to trust, you don't know who's gonna be honest with you.

A lot of places, you know, there's good people working everywhere, but there's a lot of turnover.

So this is one of those places where we can find a mom and pop shop someplace that's been around in your community forever, you can really, really trust and build a relationship with them.

So today, we're talking with Curt and Carrie Hogan of Hogan Mufflers.

Welcome to the show.

- Thank you.

- Thank you.

- And you guys, 39 years in business already, right?

- 39 years, yes, sir.

- 40 years next July 1st?

- [Curt] July 1st of next year will be 40 years.

- Okay, so take me back.

'Cause I do know also, when you first started, I think you had a little baby.

So, I mean, starting a family business, where you're both involved, (Carrie chuckles) with a baby in your arms still.

How did this come to be?

Where were you at before, and how'd you get, how'd you both decide this was the route to take?

- Well, at this particular time, when the opportunity was given to us to purchase the shop, we were working, I was working for Mr. Ken Cowan of Cowan Muffler fame.

Mr. Cowan is my mentor, next to my father, probably one of the most important men in my life.

Mr. Cowan gave me an opportunity at the ripe old age of 22 years old to become a business owner.

And Kenny called me one day and asked me if I could hang around after work.

Said, "I'd like to have a little conversation with you."

I said, "Certainly."

He came into work that evening and told me that he was in the process of beginning his retirement process, and that he was going to offer each of the shops, at the time there were four, he was gonna offer each of the shops to his current managers.

I, being the newest manager, just freshly out of school, and, quite frankly, freshly working for Mr. Cowan within about, within the previous year.

He had leased the shops out to a couple of other individuals in years past.

And I had gone from a, I had gone to the shop in North Topeka, which was still called Cowan Muffler North at that time.

I went to that shop in North Topeka to apply for a job.

They sent three of us out from the vo-tech school, and we all went in, and we all went and talked with the manager of the shop at that time, individually, person to person.

And then, when we were finished, they said, "Okay, we've got all the information we need, we'll let you know if we'd like to talk to, you know, have any other more conversation with you."

So we all got in a vehicle, the three of us, to head back to school, and we're just yammering back and forth about, you know, who's gonna get the call.

Are any of us gonna get the call?

Instructor called me into the office a couple of days later and said that they had called and asked for me specifically to come back and talk with them.

And I was thrilled.

So I went to work for Cowan Muffler North, a gentleman named Lonnie Butler.

And the manager of that shop was Mr. Hank Tetuan, who is now at another shop, owns another shop in town.

And we're friendly competitors, and have been for 39 years.

But, so I was, Kenny, when he came in that evening, he said, "I'm going to retire, and I'm gonna give you guys the opportunity now, since you've been with me the least amount of time and have the least amount of seniority, you're going to get the last choice of shops."

And at that time, there was a shop at 1612 North Topeka Boulevard, there was a shop at 10th and Topeka Boulevard, or 10th and Tyler, excuse me.

- Okay.

- There was a shop at 9th and Kentucky in Lawrence.

And there was a shop, my shop, which is at 21st and Seabrook in Topeka.

But that shop was, when we were having this conversation, four months old.

It had just been opened.

- Okay.

- He opened it in January.

We had this conversation in April.

And he explained that how he would handle the financing of the business and what all of that would look like, and asked if I was interested.

And I said, "I'm absolutely interested."

So I went home to talk to my wife, who was unemployed at the time.

We had just had our first child.

Our oldest son, Ryan, was born... Oh, I'm gonna get in trouble here.

Ryan was born in May of '84.

And this was in, or '85.

No.

- Mm-hm.

He was born in May of '85.

- But the conversation was in April of '85.

So he wasn't born yet when we got the opportunity.

- I was nine months pregnant.

- She was nine months pregnant, yeah.

And I looked at her, and I said, "I don't see where we have an option.

I think this is something we've got to go for."

She said, "Can we afford it?"

I said, "No."

(Carrie chuckles) She said, "What do we do?"

I said, "We have nowhere to go but up."

It was a very well put together plan by Mr. Cowan and his financial team to see to it that he was taken care of and that he was protected, but that we were given an opportunity that was literally second to none.

So I went about the business of selling every car that I had.

I cashed in a life insurance policy for some cash value, borrowed a little money from her mom and dad, borrowed a little money from my mom and dad.

And were able to make the down payment.

And we walked into that shop July 1st, 1985.

I unlocked the door first thing that morning as the owner of a business at 22 years old and a, what, two-month-old child at home and a wife at home.

(Carrie chuckles) And I ran the shop by myself for the early days, just trying to kind of get a feel.

You know, this shop was brand new.

It hadn't been open for less than a half a year.

There wasn't- - You didn't have the repeat customers built up, coming in for the regular servicing and everything else.

- Correct.

No customer base, other than Mr. Cowan had an absolutely phenomenal name in business in this city.

Multiple businesses, but always well known, most well known for his muffler shops.

Mr. Cowan was a welder by trade.

That was what I did, was a welder, and that's how I got into this.

And we'll probably get into that a little bit more in depth.

But, so we went ahead and purchased the shop.

And I had both parents, both sets of parents, her mom and dad and my parents, both paid back their money within nine months.

And at 22 1/2 years old, I'm the owner of a business that I had no idea what to do with the business.

I was the technician in the shops when I worked for Mr. Cowan.

I had the technical stuff down for a muffler shop, which isn't rocket science, let's be honest.

I had that down pretty well.

But the financial, boy was I in for quite an eye-opening event.

(Curt chuckles) - [Carrie] Mm-hm.

- Well, we might get into a little bit more of that in the next break then.

So, but what I'm kind of getting from this is, an opportunity rose.

It's one of those things, you just have to jump on it.

'Cause a lot of entrepreneurs or people who want to get their own business or start something, they're waiting for the right time, they're waiting for the right amount of money.

But sometimes, you just gotta believe in yourself and, like you say, there's no place to go but up.

- That's right.

- And you take a risk on yourself because you yourself know your own work ethic.

- True.

- So that's perfect.

So when we get back, we're gonna open the books on this and see where maybe some of these hair-raising experiences started for this new endeavor.

(Carrie chuckling) So stick around.

You're watching "Working Capital."

(upbeat music) To watch more episodes of "Working Capital" or any of your other favorite KTWU shows, type in www.watch.ktwu.org or scan the QR code.

(upbeat music) Welcome back.

Okay, Curt and Carrie start a new business.

Like you say, you know the part.

You know, you have your technical skills, so it's not rocket science to you for building what will be the base of this business.

How do you guys learn on the fly bookkeeping, payroll, probably trying to find new employees, even just ramping up the clientele coming in?

22 years old, baby in your arms.

How did you guys manage this?

A lot of people, they'd probably fold and crack under the pressure.

- I would agree.

And I'm not gonna tell you I didn't fold or crack, but I was taught when I was very young, you have three places you can go in life.

You can lead, you can follow, or you can get outta the way.

And my choice was never to be a follower.

I'm way past getting outta the way.

So my only choice was to lead.

And I literally told her, "We just don't have a choice.

We've got to take this jump.

This is going to be a leap of faith.

We're gonna put the results of our decision in the hands of the good Lord, and He will guide us through what we need to do."

He wasn't quite as on the team as I had hoped He would be at the time.

(Curt and Jay chuckle) I could have used some physical presence, let's put it that way.

- Yeah, yeah.

- And, you know, talking about the financial part, and the employee part, and the marketing part, and all the other pieces that go into any business, I tell people a story that the very first year, income tax time was quite interesting.

You know, at 22 years old, I literally, I mean, I had filed tax returns since I was old enough and, you know, working a job from 16 up.

So I had some idea what was going on there, but I didn't truly understand all of the different tax ramifications that are involved with the business from the local level, from the state level, from the national level.

And I'm looking at this for the first six months of the business is, this is the amount of money that's coming in, this is the amount of money that's going out, and what's left must be Curt and Carrie's.

And we found out really quick that first year that it wasn't.

In the first six months of the year, quite frankly, we were profitable, which is not all that common for a brand-new business.

But we were profitable for that, we actually turned a profit that year.

And I had to pay income tax.

And I was not prepared for the amount of income tax that had to be paid.

And I didn't understand, because we were a corporation, that was the way we set the business up to start, that myself and my company were not the same entity.

So we had tax ramifications to deal with on both sides of it.

So that was probably the most eyeopening part of becoming a business owner, was the amount of government involvement there is, the amount of tax involvement there is.

And within the first two to three weeks, the amount of money that passed through hands didn't stay long in a lot of instances, but the amount of money that we would go through.

And I can remember, at one point, coming home a couple of years into this situation that I had two full-time employees and myself, and I wrote the first payroll that was over $1,000 a week, and was about to have a coronary.

(Carrie chuckling) I did not know how I was ever going to be able to continue to do so.

And 39 years later, those numbers just keep going up and we still seem to be able to make it happen.

So we were very fortunate from that standpoint.

- So how did the customers find you?

How did you spread your name to begin with?

- Well, here again, I had the good fortune of having Mr. Cowan's name, and part of our purchase agreement was I was, I purchased the sole rights to the name Cowan Muffler West.

There was Cowan Muffler West, Cowan Muffler, Cowan Muffler Downtown, and then Downtown Muffler in Lawrence were the four shops.

So I had Mr. Cowan's name, which was a godsend.

We would not have been able to ramp up, I don't think, as quickly as we did and grow.

Because we grew to four employees in the first two years, five employees within the first two years.

The very first employee was my brother.

And we're gonna have some conversation about that as well because there's some stories that go along with initial hire.

But having Mr. Cowan's name was huge because then all the marketing that he had done in years past, which wasn't a lot, he did a little bit of radio, he did a lot of print ad as far as newspaper and that kind of stuff, but he had a name that had been recognized in the city since 1969 is when he opened the first shop.

He had a welding shop prior to that.

And so, quite frankly, I rode his coattails, I'm not ashamed to say.

- Well, he kind of set it up as a franchise at that point.

- Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

But we were all separate entities.

We all worked together very well.

The four other shop owners, three of the other four shop owners are still in the business.

- Oh, wow.

- The only one who is no longer in the business is Alan Rose.

He took the shop in North Topeka.

That was the shop that I originally worked at.

And we lost Alan almost a year ago.

Thanksgiving of last year, we lost him to death.

So that shop was closed.

Hank Tetuan, who was my first boss when I went to work at the shop in North Topeka, runs Cowan Muffler Depot, Downtown at 10th and Tyler.

And then Louis Rivera and his son Louie are running Downtown Muffler in Lawrence.

So all of these guys came from the same tree that I came from.

I just happened to be the one that was with Mr. Cowan the least amount of time, and so I got what ended up being, which was the last shop that he opened, which ended up being probably the highest-volume shop of the shops that Mr. Cowan had, or that I have, or of the shops that are available still today.

We are currently at eight full-time employees.

- Oh, wow.

- So we've got our hands full with the eight full-time employees.

I'm still on site, I wanna say 95% of the time.

We're working to get away from that.

We're working in a process of a transition of ownership from myself to my oldest son, at least, and possibly...

I have three sons.

Two of them work in the business.

It's always been the goal since we started and since the youngest was born that, hopefully, one day he'd be able to take over.

He is looking forward to that.

Ryan is 39 now, and he's ready.

So I'm just not quite ready to go yet.

(Carrie chuckles) So I'm gonna hang out, give him a little more training, and see what happens.

- Are there any grandkids or another generation already running around the shop, learning?

- Yeah, as a matter of fact, we've had one granddaughter that worked for us part-time.

She's 22 years old and lives in Texas now.

But when she was shortly outta high school, she worked for us for a short period of time.

And then we have a large gap between she, who is our oldest granddaughter.

She came with mom when Ryan, my oldest, and she married.

And then my oldest blood grandchild is- - 15.

- 15 now.

And we have seven, from him down to the youngest, which is two, so.

- Wow.

So gonna be a multi-generational family business.

- Hopefully.

- And really, who you got it from, sounds like he kind of treated you all like family.

So really, you're continuing- - Absolutely.

- tradition that was set forth before you even jumped in the business.

- Absolutely.

- I love the way that affects the community and impacts, you know, your customers, making them into family.

So when we get back, we're gonna learn a little bit more about the first staffing stories, and we'll see where Hogan Muffler goes in the future.

So stick around.

You're watching "Working Capital."

(joyful music) (dramatic music) Welcome back.

Okay, Carrie, I've heard Curt's side, but I really want to hear this side now, just to make sure it all checks out.

39 years ago, baby on the way.

How does this make sense as a team, that early in your guys' life together, that, "We're gonna start this business, and, yeah, we just started our family."

- We talked about it, and like Curt said, we didn't have anywhere to go but up.

We didn't have anything.

We were brand-new married, you know, both low in our careers, starting our careers and everything.

And having an opportunity like that made life what we just had always dreamed it would be.

You know, we've been, we've worked together, we've played together, we have had children together.

We've always done and been a pair.

I kind of feel like he is my other half.

And in doing all of the business and everything else, I had to trust him, just like he had to trust me.

And we grew in it together, and we learned as we went because we had to.

We learned what we had to.

- A lot of couples couldn't make that work.

What are some traits between you that helped this?

- The number-one trait was I decided, when we bought this business, there could only be one ultimate boss.

And in order to have one ultimate boss, there could only be one person that could do that.

I can't do everything that he can do in the shop.

I can't run it by myself.

He could do what I did in the shop, so he could run it by himself.

So he was the one that had to be the one at the top.

- And during that very first conversation, when I came home and told her about the opportunity, we had a conversation then and there and decided that it could only work one way.

She would raise a family, and I would run a business.

- [Carrie] Mm-hm.

- Little did she know that she would have to get involved with mine a lot more than I got involved with hers.

(participants chuckle) - I'm guessing, kinda like with my family, maybe the baby, maybe the kids, on occasion, were at the shop with you guys.

- Oh yeah.

- Oh yeah.

- Either, at least being there, so keep the babysitters away, or helping out.

- My youngest was born and was at the shop until he was about eight months old, 'cause he was too wiggly and didn't wanna stay in his carrier anymore or anything.

And so, that was when I had to go ahead and get a babysitter for him, so that he could be up and running around.

Because it just wasn't safe for an eight-month-old in the shop.

(Carrie laughs) - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, it used to be.

I mean, my grandfather ran a shop, so, I mean, yeah, it used to be safe around there.

But new cars and whatnot, so.

- (laughs) Exactly.

- For good or bad, you know, family is part of a lot of startups'- - It is.

- employees.

- So you talked a little bit about, your first hire was your brother.

- My first hire was my younger brother.

- How did that go?

So I know sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad.

- Well, it worked out.

He's still there.

- That's fantastic.

(Carrie chuckles) - (chuckles) I actually called Kevin.

My wife reminded me on the way over that I've been telling the story wrong for 39 years.

(Carrie chuckles) I called him in August.

We took control of the shop July 1st, and by the end of August, it was apparent to me that I wasn't gonna be able to do what I needed to do on my own.

So I called my brother, and I asked him, I said, "Hey, you wanna come to work for me?"

He said, "Do you have enough for us to do, both of us?"

And I said, "No, but I'm tired of playing one-handed solitaire.

I need somebody with me."

(Carrie chuckling) And Carrie has got a family to raise.

She's in the shop, at home, in the shop.

God bless her.

- She does not wanna put her hands in the engine bay.

- No, and I didn't want her to put her hands in the engine bay.

And she didn't...

I should preface this to say that she's had one goal in her entire life.

She had one job that she wanted to do, and that was to be a mother.

- Yeah.

- And she did it.

- I raised three boys.

- And we feel very fortunate that we were able to be in a position where she was able to do the room mother stuff, and the field trips, and the field day, and all the things that a lot of working parents don't get the opportunity to be at, because she's the owner.

She could just say, "I'm not coming in today," what we used to call, calling in well.

"Well, I'm not gonna be here today."

(Carrie laughs) So, but yeah, that was the, that, I think, was the main deal for us.

Carrie was behind the scenes.

She was at the front counter from time to time.

She would answer the telephone, she would run the shuttle, she would clean the bathroom, she'd mop the floors.

I mean, you know, we did what all young business owners do.

You did everything.

You had a couple of people or one person, and you did what you had to do.

But towards the latter stages, she hasn't been involved with the shop since '15 on a full-time basis, or really on much of a basis, because of some health issues.

But, and so I've taken that back over, along with the help of other qualified individuals, other firms and stuff that we have hired to outsource some of the things that we used to do ourselves.

It was a whole lot easier to do business when I walked into that place.

I had 12 part numbers of mufflers, four sizes of tubing, and 10 pair of shocks.

And that covered 90% of the market.

I have 417 muffler SKUs now (Carrie sighs) just in one component.

(Carrie chuckles) So it's changed a little.

- Let's talk a little bit about that.

And I'll ask Carrie first, too, though, with the changing and all these different services, to me, women have a harder time going into to these shops and feeling comfortable and safe that they're not gonna be taken advantage of.

You know, there's still that mystique.

Tell us how Hogan Muffler works so well that, you know, anyone walking in... As a female, what makes you feel safe about walking in and seeing the way this, your own business is run?

- Customer service.

And that's the bottom line.

I believe nobody gives customer service like my shop does.

That includes my husband, my brother-in-Law, my children, and employees.

They just make it work.

And it's tough, but it does.

And it's very fulfilling.

- And if you're, I guess, cordial at that desk, what, me walking in, anyone walking, they don't see that, "Well, I've just been trying to get this rusted-on bolt off for half an..." You know, they don't see the stresses going on inside the shop to make everything go smoothly for when you get home, that it isn't your worry, so.

- Right.

Well, and when my middle son graduated college with a psychology degree, he came to his dad, and he said, "Dad, I think I wanna work in the shop."

- Again.

- Again.

And he says, and and my husband said, Curt said, "Why do you want, you have a psychology degree, why do you wanna work in my shop?"

And he said, "Dad, who needs fixing more than people with broken cars?

I know what I can do for them."

- He didn't look at it from the mechanical side, he didn't look at it from the business side.

He looked at it from the people side.

- From the social aspect.

- And I would absolutely, positively love to have him involved with that business today, but he's not.

He's moved on to doing what he should be doing in life.

And he's building young minds.

He's coaching kids, and he's the head of high school wrestling coach at Washburn Rural High School.

And he also runs the Kids' Wrestling Club.

So he deals with about 400 kids.

From October to March every year, (Carrie chuckles) they are his family.

And that's where he needs to be.

That's exactly what he does.

But she's exactly right.

We just decided, you know what?

I want the place to be inviting.

When they come in, I want them to be greeted within three seconds of walking in the door.

If I'm on the phone, you're gonna get a, "I'll be with you in just a minute," and finish the phone call.

But those- - I can tell you, too, that one thing, when ladies come in, and they'll stand at the front counter, and they'll say, "How come this doesn't smell like an automotive shop?

I smell brownies."

Well, he's become a Scentsy person.

And so there's always Scentsy burning in our shop.

And that's another inviting way for women.

- From a marketing standpoint, it does go a long way.

So, I mean, you guys do go above and beyond.

And we're running out, we've run out of time.

So we didn't even get to all the services you offer, but, I mean, everything from mufflers, of course, oil changes, tires, I mean- - We're complete repair, yeah.

- Just check them out.

I'll let you guys do a little research on 'em.

It's a fantastic place.

So sorry we couldn't get to more of that, but thank you both for being on there, Carrie, Curt.

- Thank you.

- It's been great learning more about Hogan Muffler, and congratulations on 40 years coming up.

- [Curt] Thank you very much.

- Thank you.

- We appreciate it.

- Well, I hope you've learned a little bit more about a great family-run business here in Topeka that will maybe help take a little stress off your plate, especially around the holidays, if you need something done with your car or truck.

So you've been watching "Working Capital."

We hope to see you next time.

Thanks for watching.

(gentle upbeat music) - [Announcer] Funding for "Working Capital" is provided by the Friends of KTWU and Go Topeka.

(gentle upbeat music)