(upbeat music) (dramatic violin music) - [Robert] Pamela Colman Smith.

(dramatic violin music continues) Discovered by Bram Stoker, and commissioned to create the tarot deck that would become the most popular of all time.

(dramatic violin music) Now, Pamela must fight to keep those cards from being used for evil.

(dramatic violin music) - First off, I'm joined by my colleague, the executive producer of "One on One," Georgette Timoney.

Georgette, do us a favor, introduce our guest, because you found her.

She's a friend, and you have the connection, please.

- It really is my honor to introduce to you an amazing writer, actor, producer, Susan Wands.

- And also author of the book, "Magician"- - The brand new book, "Magician and Fool."

Look for it.

It's the first book in a series, a three-book series, hopefully be an 11-book series, so it's really exciting.

Susan, can you tell us what the book's about?

- Yes, I'm thrilled to be here today.

Thank you so much, Steve, for having me as a guest.

"Magician and Fool" is the first book in a series based on a real life person, Pamela Colman-Smith.

She is known as the mother of the modern day tarot deck, or teh-row deck.

And I have been researching her for about 15 years, following her journey.

She was the daughter of American parents.

Her father was the mayor of Brooklyn.

And she became a very influential force in the world of tarot, designing these cards, and actually competing with someone else who was known as the wickedest man alive, Aleister Crowley.

- Hold on one second.

You used the word, is it tarot?

Teh-row?

What is the proper correct pronunciation?

- You can say it either way.

It's either tarot or teh-row.

- It's like either or eye-ther, Steve.

It can go- - Po-tay-to, po-tah-to.

- I got it.

I got it.

By the way, the book comes out-- we're taping on actually Valentine's Day 2023, book's coming out in May, 2023.

Meddling with magic.

What do you mean meddling with, why can't you meddle with magic?

- Well, Steve, you know, magic, especially at that time, they weren't sure what was science and what was magic.

And what they were doing is that they were trying to channel all these new ideas about what was reality.

I mean, they were tripping on opium.

They were astral traveling, but some of them were actually creating magical spells and having duals.

You know, Aleister Crowley and WB Yates actually had several duels.

One was in Watkins Books and the other one was on the streets outside the headquarters of The Golden Dawn, this was this cult of magicians.

And so they didn't know yet what really was science and do we really know what is science and what is magic?

I think the jury's still out.

- So, Georgette, what's so interesting, Georgette, it's fiction as you were describing, it's fiction, but go ahead, set that up.

- It's historical.

Yeah, it's historical fiction.

And I love this genre because I find it so interesting.

You have, you're set in the Victorian era, right Susan?

And you're using real people, but where do you make the decision about which part is fiction?

What part is historically accurate?

How do you determine that?

- Oh, that's a great question, Georgette.

I'm sort of in the genre of what's called alternate history.

I fudge dates a little bit.

I'm really going back to try to find magic realism with The Golden Dawn Cult.

So I wasn't there.

I don't know the dialogue, but I've certainly spent the majority of my life researching what they could have said.

So some of the dates, some of the people, maybe they met, maybe they didn't, but I try to bring them together in this parallel universe.

- And it's also the themes that you're exploring that I find so fascinating too, right.

It's this idea of it's good versus evil, but it's also, you know, in Pamela's case, the main character, discovering what your gifts are.

And following that through despite what the obstacles are that are in front of you.

Can you tell us a little bit about that?

- I think it's, especially anytime you use a tarot deck, I actually have them here, that you have to be able to sign over to what is other.

You know, because there's 78 cards.

They all have archetypes.

And the idea of this is that Pamela is an outsider.

And so we all feel like outsiders at the time.

And so these tarot cards or tarot cards help you access your own ideas about what can help you in terms of introspection.

Jung was a big enthusiastic fan of these cards.

He actually thought they helped people look inside themselves in terms of problem solving and trying to identify what was in their subconscious at the time.

- All right, Susan, let's do this.

My wife challenged me, Georgette, Georgette who is strong, assertive, and incredibly persuasive and talented.

She said, "Just do this."

I've been reluctant, but for the good of our production, tell me how I do this.

Do you pick?

Do I pick the card?

What do I do?

We're remote.

How do we do this?

- I do this all the time remote, Steve.

It's no big deal.

So what I'm gonna ask you to do is just ask for guidance, not for answers.

I'm gonna shuffle them very quickly with your energy in it.

- Can I tell you I'm very vulnerable?

- You are very vulnerable.

And the cards love vulnerability.

So what I'm going to- - No, I meant don't hurt me.

(everyone laughs) - I'll try not to pull up a scary card for you, Steve.

But what I'm going to do is I'm actually gonna hold the deck here and I'm going to cut the card depending on how you feel.

So I'm gonna take my finger here and when you feel like it's good for me to cut the card, say when.

- When.

When right there.

That's it.

- All right - I'm getting ready for this.

What is it?

Temperance.

- Temperance.

See, these are the red wings of the Angel Bethesda.

This is asking you to have more balance.

You see you have one foot in the water and one foot on the ground.

You also have lilies, so you have lots of projects coming up.

So this is just a foretelling that you're branching out, but it's asking you, please keep your balance.

Please pour your resources from one cup to the other without losing who you are.

Does that make sense?

- Georgette, did you pick?

Hold on one second.

By the way, I'm gonna disclose something.

I have this, weird people like me, have these little things to whatever, keep your balance.

I think it's temperance.

Is this also, temperance is about demeanor and calm, and the yeah.

Georgette, did you pick that card?

(Susan laughs) - I didn't.

I wish I could take credit for it.

(Georgette laughs) - You picked this card, Steve.

You have no one to blame yourself.

- If I find out that all of 'em say temperance, that's.

(everyone laughs) - Show them, yeah.

We didn't do this ahead of time.

We wanted it to be real.

- Georgette, I got a couple minutes left.

Pick it up from there.

- Sure.

Let's talk a little bit for a second, Susan, about the whole publishing realm, right?

Because you had started as an incredible actress and then producer as well, but publishing.

People watching now, like how do you do it?

- Well, it's a very crowded market right now, especially with COVID.

A lot of people didn't get to launch their books for almost three years.

So I was fortunate enough to be picked up by a hybrid press called Spark Press.

And what they do is that we share costs for publishing.

And that means I get more royalties.

And I'm thrilled actually because I have a terrific team.

Brooke Warner, who's the executive of it and my personal editor, Shannon Green, they really helped me shape this book.

The book was put out very prematurely seven years ago in England and it was only listed online.

So that gave me the opportunity to go back and really make the book the best book that it could be and write the subsequent two other books.

But publishing is yikesy.

You have to have a really good publisher that believes in you and will be willing to walk you through the steps to make sure you understand your genre and know who your audience is.

And I feel very lucky that Brooke Warner from Spark Press picked my book to publish this year.

- Well, congratulations.

Georgette, could you put the book up again?

- Sure.

- Susan Wands is the author of that book right there Magician- - [Georgette] "Magician and Fool" coming to you soon.

- [Steve] Georgette, when?

- It's in May.

- That's right.

- It's launching in May, but you're also gonna be able, we'll run Susan's website and you can take a look at it there as well.

It's absolutely fabulous.

I couldn't put it down when I started it.

It is the first of three, but hopefully they're gonna be like 11 of 'em, right?

So I'm gonna be reading all the time, so I'm gonna need to take some time off, Steve, 'cause I gotta- - Georgette, I know you didn't have a card that said this, but can you see in the chat where it says, "Wrap to black, we have no more time."

Do you see that?

(women laugh) - Shoot, I'm sorry.

This was a lot of fun.

Thank you Susan.

- Susan, terrific job.

Georgette, terrific job finding Susan and booking her.

Wish you all the best.

I'm practicing temperance.

See you next time.

- All right, thank you, Steve.

- [Narrator] One-On-One with Steve Adubato has been a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by Wells Fargo.

New Jersey Institute of Technology.

MD Advantage Insurance Company.

Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

The New Jersey Education Association.

Delta Dental of New Jersey.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

NJM Insurance Group.

And by The Adler Aphasia Center.

Promotional support provided by Northjersey.com and Local IQ.

And by BestofNJ.com.

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