WELCOME TO "KENTUCKY TONIGHT."

I'M RENEE SHAW.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

OUR TOPIC TONIGHT: THE 2021 LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

WE'RE AT DAY 29 OF THE 30-DAY SESSION THAT HAS TO END TOMORRO BEFORE THE CLOCK STRIKES MIDNIG AS WE SPEAK, LAWMAKERS ARE CONSIDERING BILLS AND VOTING ON WHETHER TO OVERRIDE GOVERNOR ANDY BESHEAR'S RECENT VETOES.

TONIGHT WE'LL DISCUSS WHAT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY HAS ACCOMPLISHED AND WHAT STILL REMAINS WITH OUR GUESTS.

IN OUR LEXINGTON STUDIO: ASHLI WATTS, THE PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE KENTUCKY CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.

JASON BAILEY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTO OF THE KENTUCKY CENTER FOR ECONOMIC POLICY.

AND JOSH CRAWFORD, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR FOR THE PEGASUS INSTITUTE.

AND JINX BY SKYPE: TERRY BROOKS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE KENTUCKY YOUTH ADVOCATES.

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WELCOME TO ALL OF OUR GUESTS AND THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE IN STUDIO.

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WE MADE IT TO DAY 29.

AND I JUST WANTS YOU TO JUST REALLY QUICKLY ROUND ROBIN, IF YOU HAD TO GIVE A HEADLINE FOR THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW FOR WHAT THIS SESSION WAS ABOUT, THE MAJOR THEMES, THE ACTIONS, JASON BAILEY, WHAT WOULD YOUR HEADLINE READ?

>> WELL, I THINK THE OVERWHELMING THEME HAS BEEN MOVING POWER FROM THE GOVERNOR TO THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH OR TO OTHERS CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICES.

I MEAN, THIS WAS REALLY A SESSION ABOUT PULLING AUTHORITY AWAY FROM THE GOVERNOR THAT WAS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.

MOST OF THE TOP TEN BILLS ADDRESS THAT IN SOME FORM OR ANOTHER.

SO I THINK THAT HAS BEEN THE FOCUS.

MY HOPE IS THAT IN THE NEXT COUPLE DAYS WE CAN GET A LITTLE DIFFERENT HEADLINE SQUEAKED IN THIS WHICH IS THAT WE GET SOME RELIEF MONEY OUT THE DOOR THAT WE'RE GETTING FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND TO THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY NEED IT.

>> AND WE'RE GOING SEE ABOUT THAT.

I THINK THEY'RE PROBABLY HAVING A MEETING MAYBES WE SPEAK ON WHAT TO DO WITH SOME OF THAT MONEY.

ASHLI WATTS, WHAT WOULD YOUR HEADLINE READ.

>> WE HAVE 28 HOURS TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS AT THE END OF THE SESSION BUT WE ARE REALLY HOPE PARKING LOT OF CHAMBER AND THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY PERSPECTIVE THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE ABOUT RECOVERY.

WE HAVE SEEN A LOT OF BILLS THAT ARE GOING HOPE TO OUR ECONOMIC RECOVERY ESPECIALLY AFTER LAST YEAR, BUT THERE ARE SOME BIG BILLS THAT HANG IN THE BALANCE, INFRASTRUCTURE, LIABILITY REFORM AND UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE.

THOSE ARE KIND OF THREE BIG ISSUES THAT WE'RE REALLY KEEPING OUR EYES ON IN THESE NEXT 28 HOURS TO MAKE SURE THAT KENTUCKIANS CAN TRULY RECOVER AND GET BACK ON THEIR FEET ECONOMICALLY AFTER THIS LAST YEAR.

>> YEAH, JOSH CRAWFORD.

>> I THINK IN A WORD IT WOULD BE REFORM IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SPACE, IN THE EDUCATION SPACE, IN THE STRUCTURE OF STATE GOVERNMENT.

THIS HAS BEEN A SESSION ABOUT REFORM AND CHANGING THE WAY WE DO THINGS.

>> SO WE'RE GOING TO HIT ON EACH THOSE THINGS THROUGHOUT THE EVENING.

DR. TERRY BROOKS, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?

AND YOU CAN EVEN TALK ABOUT SOME MAJOR VICTORIES BECAUSE WHEN WE GOT TODAY 28, I BELIEVE IT WAS, BEFORE THE GOVERNOR'S VETO PERIOD, THERE WERE SOME REALLY GOOD VICTORIES FOR CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND FOR KIDS.

>> SURE.

I THINK MY HEADLINE WOULD BE PERVASIVE PERPLEXITY.

THE DICTIONARY DEFINES PERPLEXITY AS A BALANCE OFFING AND COMPLICATED -- BAFFLING AND COMPLICATED SITUATION.

THIS SESSION HAS BEEN FILLED WITH PERPLEXITY.

I'LL GIVE YOU JUST ONE EXAMPLE, RENEE.

IF WE THINK ABOUT MALTREATMENT, AND THIS IS THE THIRD STRAIGHT YEAR THAT KENTUCKY SADLY HAS THE LEADING RATE OF CHILD ABUSE IN THIS NATION, THIS YEAR SAW THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY CONTINUE ITS LEGACY SINCE 2014.

THEY PASSED FOUR SEMINAL PIECES OF LEGISLATION TO BETTER PROTECT KIDS FROM ABUSE AND NEGLECT.

THEY PUT INTO THE BUDGET SOME 20 MILLION NEW DOLLARS FOR PREVENTION.

ALL OF THAT IS REALLY SIGNIFICANT.

AND YET, AND YET UNLESS SOMETHING CHANGES RADICALLY, WE'RE GOING TO SEE A BUDGET THAT DOES NOT ADD A SINGLE FRONTLINE SOCIAL WORKER.

WE KNOW THAT'S CRITICAL TO PRESENTING KIDS FROM ABUSE.

WE KNOW THAT THERE IS A THREE-TO-ONE MEDICAID MATCH THAT KENTUCKY COULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF TO ADDRESS BEHAVIORAL AND EMOTIONAL NEEDS OF KIDS WHO HAVE BEEN TRAUMATIZED.

WHAT A GREAT DRAWDOWN.

NOTHING CATEGORICAL FOR THAT.

SO ON ONE HAND WE HAVE REALLY SIGNIFICANT PROGRESS REFORM IN THAT AREA OF MALTREATMENT, AND YET THERE ARE SOME BIG PACKAGES LEFT ON THE TABLE, SO THAT LER PERPLEXITY ACTUALLY PERCOLATES IN CHILD WELFARE, JUSTICE REFORM, EARLY CHILDHOOD, EDUCATION, ECONOMIC WELL-BEING.

SO MY PHRASE IS PERVASIVE PERPLEXITY.

>> THAT'S INTERESTING.

SO WE'VE GOT REFORM, PERVASIVE PERPLEXITY, POWER, A LOT OF ALLITERATION WITH THE Ps POINT I WANT TO PICK UP ON SOME CRIMINAL JUSTICE VICTORIES BECAUSE WE DID SEE THOSE NEAR THE END AND THIS IS REALLY A BIPARTISAN CONVERSATION, BECAUSE BOTH SIDES, Ds AND Rs ARE AGREED TO CERTAIN REENTRY REFORMS, ASHLI WATTS WHEN IT HOMS TO EMPLOYABILITY FOR THOSE INCONTRACTORS CATED RATE.

WE SAW THE DIGNITY BILL PART 2 THAT WOULD KEEP WOMEN FROM BEING IN SOLITARY CONFINEMENT WHILE THEY'RE PREGNANT AND IMMEDIATELY THEREAFTER.

SO THERE ARE SOME REALLY GOOD THINGS.

AND THE JUVENILE JUSTICE BILL.

I KNOW THAT TERRY IS A BIG FAN OF, THAT NO LONGER WOULD THERE BE AN AUTOMATIC TRANSFER OF KIDS INTO ADULT COURT JUST BECAUSE THEY HAD A FIRE ARM BUT MAYBE THAT FIRE ARM WASN'T USED DURING THE ANYTHING CRIME OF.

HOUSE PILL 126 WHICH I DID NOT MENTION WHEN IS RAISING THE FELONY THRESHOLD, JASON BAILEY, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN TALKED ABOUT FOR SEVERAL EXERTIONS THIS TYPE IT HAPPENED, MAYBE NOT AS HIGH AS SOME WOULD HAVE WANTED BUT RACING IT FROM 500 TOADS $1,000, IT'S A STEP.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IT WAS EXCELLENT WORK BY THE REPRESENTATIVES AND THE COALITION BEHIND THAT.

I THINK THAT BILL WILL CROSS THE FINISH LINE.

IT'S PIECE OF SENTENCING ROW REFORM AND EADE A FELONY THRESHOLD BEFORE WHERE THE COST OF A CELL PHONE, IF SOMEONE WERE TO STEAL A CELL PHONE THEY WOULD HAVE A FELONY THAT WOULD BE WITH THEM THE REST OF THEIR LIFE.

THAT WOULD MAKE NO SENSE FOR ANYBODY, FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS, FOR OUR ECONOMY, FOR OUR SOCIETY AS A WHOLE.

SO THIS IS A HUGE PART OF THE KIND OF CHANGES WE NEED TO MAKE TO REDUCE THE OVERALL LEVEL OF INCARCERATION, AND TO GET PEOPLE BACK ON THEIR FEET AND DEAL WITH THESE OVERWHELMING COSTS WHEN IT COMES TO OUR PRISONS AND OUR JAILS.

SO IT WAS REALLY POSITIVE TO SEE THAT MOVE FORWARD.

>> AND SOME STATES -- >> AND ED MASSEY.

>> ED MASSEY WHO IS HOUSE JEREMY CHAIRMAN WHICH JUDICIARY CHAIRMAN HELPED.

$2,500.

WE STARTED OFF WITH THAT DISCUSSION BUT AS YOU SAY INCREMENTAL.

>> IT'S MOMENT UP.

POSITIVE MOMENTUM THAT PEOPLE CAN GET BEHIND AND PUSH THROUGH.

WE HAVE TO BUILD ON IT.

TO MOVE THE NEEDLE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BUILT ON BUILD ON IT.

I THINK THERE CAN BE SOME LEARNING FROM, THE EVIDENCE SUCCESS.

WE CAN LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED TO PEOPLE.

WE CAN LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED TO COSTS AND BUILD ON IT.

>>Y WE KNOW THAT EMPLOYABILITY, ASHLI WATTS IS A BIG BARRIER TO RIDDLE MANY RIPPLED, THAT IF YOU CAN'T GET AND DEEP A JOB YOU'RE MORE THAN LIKELY TO BE ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE LAW AGAIN.

HOUSE BILL 447 HOPES TO CORRECT THAT.

YOU, THE CHAMBER, REALLY CHAMPIONED THIS MEASURE.

>> WE DID.

AND REPRESENTATIVE KIM MOSER IS THE ONE THAT CHAMPIONED THIS IN THE HOUSE FOR US.

REALLY WHEN WE LOOK AT CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS ABOUT IT IS ALL FOUR OF OUR GROUPS SUPPORT MOST OF THESE BILLS IT IS.

REALLY TRULY IS A BIPARTISAN ISSUE.

WE WORK ON FELONY THEFT TOGETHER FOR MANY YEARS.

BUT WHEN WE KNOW IS WHEN SOMEONE IS PLAGUED AND HAS A FELONY THE OTHER RECORD, THEIR LIKELIHOOD HAVE GETTING EMPLOYMENT OF COURSE GOES DOWN AND SO WHAT CAN WE DO TO HELP PEOPLE GET BACK NO SOCIETY, BECOME A TAX-PAYING CITIZEN, GET THE JOB RENEED AND REALLY RECOVER.

I THINK IF SOMEONE HAS MADE FAUD PRICE, BEEN INCARCERATED AND PAID THEIR PRICE AND DONE EVERYTHING SOCIETY HAS ASKED THEM TO DO, WE NEED TO GIVE THEM A SECOND CHANCE, AND SO THE CHAMBER FOR SEVERAL YEARS HAS REALLY BEEN A CHAMPION HAVE SECOND CHANCE EMPLOYMENT AND FRYING TO GET EMPLOYERS TO REALLY BE RECOVERY FRIENDLY P AND THAT'S WHAT THIS BILL DOES EXACTLY, IS TO HELP PEOPLE GET THAT SECOND CHANCE, GET THEM THAT MEANINGFUL EMPLOYMENT TO GET THEM BACK INTO SOCIETY.

IT'S A HUGE STEP I THINK IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

IT WAS A BROAD BIPARTISAN EFFORT THAT HAS BEEN SIGNED INTO LAW BY THE GOVERNOR.

>> RIGHT.

SO THIS GIVES CERTIFICATES OF OF EMPLOY IABILITY FOR OFFENDERS WHO SUCCESSFUL FINISH NIECE TREATMENT PROGRAMS, LIABILITY PROTECTIONS TO EMPLOYERS AS WELL AND MAKE SURE OFFENDS HAVE NECESSARY I. D.s WHICH NO ONE EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT MAYBE.

>> THIS IS SUCHING INTERESTING ISSUE.

MANY OF OUR GROUPS HAVE WORKED ON THIS.

IS THAT RIGHT NOW WHEN YOU ARE INCARCERATED AND YOU'RE RELEASED FROM PRISON, WHICH MOMENT PEOPLE ARE EVENTUALLY RELEASED FROM PRISON WRAP YOU ARE RELEASED WITH I WAS BASICALLY WHAT YOU BROUGHT IN, AND YOUR ONLY FORM OF IDENTIFICATION FOR MOST PEOPLE IS THEIR MUGSHOT.

SO THINK ABOUT GETTING OUT OF PRISON, WANT TO START IS GET YOUR SECOND CHANCE, AND YOU GO TO APPLY FOR A JOB AND THE ONLY FORM OF I.D.

YOU HAVE IS A MUGSHOT.

SO WE WEREN'T REALLY SETTING PEOPLE UP TO SUCCEED.

AND SO WE'VE WORKED WITH A BRAD COALITION ON THIS ISSUE OF TRYING TO FUND THESE I.D.s FOR PEOPLE WHEN THEY ARE GETTING OUT OF BRIS OR JAIL SO THAT THEY REALLY BE TRULY GET THAT SECOND CHANCE AND GET THAT FRESH START AT LIFE, AND SO THIS HELPS WITH THAT AS WELL.

>> YEAH,.

THE DIGNITY BILL PART 26 BUT IT'S SENATE BILL 84 WY ITS NOMENCLATURE AND SOLITAIRE CONFINEMENT AND A LOT OF OTHER THINGS FOR PREGNANT WOMEN.

THIS IS LIKE YOU SAID, ALL OF THE GROUPS REPRESENTED TONIGHT PROBABLY SUPPORT THIS BILL, BUT I KNOW THAT THE PEGASUS INSTITUTE HAS REALLY BEEN BEHIND SOME OF THESE CRIMINAL JUSTICE MATTERS.

>> YEAH, FOURS THE DIGNITY BILL, DID GO IN IT 2 AS WE PREFERY EVER REFER TO IT, HAS BECOME A LEGACY ISSUE BUT I THINK IT'S BECOME A LEGACY ISSUE FOR KENTUCKY LAWMAKERS AS WELL.

THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM WAS LARGELY BUILT FOR MEN.

MOST OFFENDERS AND VICTIMS ARE MALE, MOST POLICE EVER POLICE OFFICERS AND CORRECTIONS OFFICERS ARE MALE.

WOMEN WERE LEFT HIND.

2018 SENATOR JULIE RAQUE ADAMS TOOK UP THIS FIGHT THAT A BUNK OF THING INCLUDING SHACKLE PREGNANT EM WITH DURING LABOR AND DELIVERY, AND THIS YEAR WOULDN'T BACK AND CLEANED UP SOME OF THE THINGS FROM LAST TIME, DID A LOT AROUND POSTPARTUM CARE, THE WELFARE OF THE CHILD IMMEDIATELY POST BIRTH AND ALSO DID THAT BANNING OF SOLITAIRE CONFINEMENT FOR PREGNANT INMATES.

SOLITAIRE CONFINEMENT SHORT OF EXECUTIONS IS THE GREATEST DEPRIVATION OF INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY FOR AN INDIVIDUAL.

I THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT'S WRONG PER SE BUT IT DOES MEAN WE NEED TO SCRUTINIZE GREATEST SERIOUSNESS.

THIS STARTS THAT PROCESS FOR PRESENTATION WOMEN AND WILL STATER LARGER CONVERSATIONS AROUND CONFINEMENT PERIOD.

>> DR. BROOKS, I MENTIONED SENATE BILL 32 WHICH IS STOPPING IS THE AUTOMATIC TRANSFER OF KIDS TO ADULT COURT AND GIVES THE JUDGES DISCRETION, WHAT IS WHAT WE ALWAYS HEAR, JUDICIAL DISCRETION.

I KNOW THIS IS A BILL YOU WERE VERY HAPPY TO SEE PASS AND MAYBE A COUPLE OF OTHERS WE HAVEN'T MENTIONED.

GAVE AUN OPPORTUNITY TO LIST THOSE FOR US.

>> SURE.

FIRST OF ALL, RENEE, I JUST WANT TOM COULD BACK AND REMIND FOLKS OF THE POWERFUL IMPACT THAT THAT RATING THE FELONY ISSUE HAS ON KIDS.

OVER 12% OF KIDS IN KEV PARENTS WHO ARE INCARCERATED.

THAT'S THE THIRD HIGHEST RATE IN THE NATION.

SO THAT'S GOING TO -- THAT ONE BILL THAT WE'VE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT IS GOING TO IMPACT KIDS AS WELL AS MOMS AND DADS.

THE MANDATORY TRANSFER BILL THAT HAD BEEN CHAMPIONED BY THAT JUVENILE JUSTICE BULLDOG SENATOR WHITNEY WESTERFIELD, IN FACT WILL HAVE A MAJOR EFFECT.

IT WILL ENSURE THAT KIDS WHO MAKE A MISTAKE, THAT PUBLIC SAFETY IS PROTECTED, BUT WE CAN GET THEM BACK ON THE RIGHT TRACK.

I THINK THAT SENATE BILL 32, WHICH REALLY WAS SENATE BILL 36, IS ALSO IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT'S ONE OF SEVERAL MEASURES THAT HAVE A DISCREET AND POWERFUL IMPACT ON RACIAL DISPARITIES.

WE BELIEVE THAT THAT PARTICULAR BILL WILL REALLY HELP, ESPECIALLY YOUTH OF COLOR WHO DON'T NEED TO ENTER THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM WHEN THEY DON'T NEED TO.

THAT'S GOING TO BE A BIG HELP TO THAT.

BUT I DO NEED TO SAY, AS IMPORTANT AS ALL OF THESE VICTORIES ARE AND WE CELEBRATE ALL OF THOSE, ESPECIALLY THAT MANDATORY TRANSFER, AGAIN, THAT PERPLEXITY PERVADES JUSTICE.

GOING INTO THE SESSION THE AUBURN THAT I FELT MOST CONFIDENT ABOUT -- ARENA THAT I FELT MOST CONFIDENT ABOUT WAS AROUND JUVENILE ADJUDICATION.

KENTUCKY IS ONE OF THE FEW STATES THAT DOES NOT HAVE AN AGE OF ACCOUNTABILITY.

WE CAN LOCK UP SIX-YEAR-OLDS.

WHEN WE KNOW THAT STATES LIKE TEXAS AND ALABAMA, KNOT EXACTLY KNOWN AS RADICALLY LEFT-LEANING STATES, HAVE ENACTED JUVENILE ADJUDICATION AGE LIMITS, WE THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS A SESSION WHERE THAT COULD HAPPEN.

IT COULDN'T EVEN GET HEARD.

SO AGAIN, GREAT PROGRESS, AS MY COLLEGIAL PANELISTS HAVE DISCUSSED, AND YET WE STILL HAVE SOME THINGS ON THE TABLE THAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED THIS SESSION, AND WE SURELY HOPE THAT THEY HAPPEN NEXT SESSION.

>> AND IN A 30-DAY SESSION, YOU KNOW, IT IS TOUGH, PARTICULARLY THIS TIME YOU WERE DEALING WITH SO MANY COVID RELIEF ISSUES AND CRAFTING A BUDGET, WHICH ARE TOUGH ENOUGH WHEN YOU HAVE 60 DAYS, LET ALONE WHEN YOU HAVE 30, SO GOOD POINTS ON THAT.

DO YOU WANT TO SAY ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT THAT, JASON?

>> JUST ON CRIMINAL JUSTICE, ANOTHER GOOD BILL THAT PASSED WAS HOUSE BILL 402 WHEN RAISED THE THRESHOLD FOR FLAGRANT NON-SUPPORT BEING A FELONY, AND THAT'S ANOTHER ISSUE WHERE WE'VE BEEN LOCKING PEOPLE AWAY BECAUSE THEY WERE POOR AND THEY WERE BEHIND ON CHILD SUPPORT.

YOU KNOW, UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S A POSITIVE STEP FORWARD ON THAT ISSUE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM.

AT THE SAME TIME, THOUGH, IT LOOKS LIKE THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY IS OVERRIDING THE GOVERNOR'S VETO ON SENATE BILL 65 WHICH CUTS OFF FOOD ASSISTANCE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE BEHIND ON CHILD SUPPORT AND WILL DIRECTLY HURT ABOUT -- THE LAST TIME WE HAD THIS IN EFFECT -- ABOUT 6,000 KIDS LOST FOOD ASSISTANCE AS A RESULT, AND THIS WOULD MAKE US THE ONLY STATE IN THE COUNTRY THAT CUTS OFF FOOD ASSISTANCE FOR CHILDREN IN THIS WAY.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC.

PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING.

ABOUT ONE IN SEVEN PARENTS, THEIR KIDS ARE NOT GETTING ENOUGH TO EAT.

PEOPLE WHO OWE CHILD SUPPORT WANT TO PATE BUT THEY'VE LOST THEIR CHILD, THEY'RE UNEMPLOYED, THEY'RE STRUGGLING, AND TO PUNISH THE CHILDREN BECAUSE THE PARENT IS BEHIND IS REALLY, IN MY OPINION, CRUEL AND REALLY SETS US BACK.

SO THAT'S AN ISSUE WHERE WE'RE HAVING SOME COGNITIVE DISDANCE.

IF WE'RE RECOGNIZING WE SHOULDN'T BE PUTTING AS MANY PEOPLE IN JAIL BECAUSE OF THAT BUT YET WE'RE TAKING FOOD ASSISTANCE FROM THEIR CHILDREN OR THEIR STEPCHILDREN, THAT JUST DOESN'T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE.

>> WE HAVE HEARD A LOT, JASON BAILEY, THIS SESSION FROM DEMOCRATS ABOUT A LOT OF THE MEASURES THAT CAME ACROSS DEALING WITH COVID RELIEF, ASHLI WATTS, WERE PRO BUSINESS BUT WE DIDN'T SEE A LOT OF PRO-FAMILY.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THAT'S A TRUE ASSESSMENT?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

I THINK BUSINESSES OBVIOUSLY HAVE BEEN HIT REALLY HARD IN THE LAST YEAR OR SO REALLY AND THROUGH VARIOUS RELIEF THAT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY HAS GIVEN THROUGH UI RELIEF AND THROUGH PPP TAX REDUCTION, NOT HAVING TO PAY TAXES ON YOUR PPP LOANS, THE BEST THING WE CAN GO FOR KENTUCKY NAMES IS JOBS, IS TO GET PEOPLE BACK TO WORK.

I THINK WE ALL KNOW AROUND THIS TIME LAST YEAR KENTUCKY HAD THE HIGHEST RATE OF UNEMPLOYMENT IN THE NATION, AND SO I THINK WHEN WE TALK ABOUT BEING PRO-FAMILY AND GETTING PEOPLE BACK ON THEIR FEET, THE BEST THING THAT WE CAN DO FOR THEM IS CREATE A CLIMATE AND CREATE AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE WE CAN CREATE JOBS AND PEOPLE CAN GET BACK TO WORK.

WE KNOW THAT WOMEN HAVE BEEN DISPROPORTIONATELY DISPROPORTIONATELY PUT OUT OF WORKFORCE, THE NUMBERS ARE THREE TO ONE AS TO MEN, AND SO LOOKING AT BALANCING WORK AND HOMESCHOOLING AND EVERYTHING THAT'S GONE ON IN THIS LAST YEAR, THE BEST THING THAT WE CAN DO IS REALLY TO CREATE JOBS AND MAKE SURE THAT BUSINESSES ARE STILL GOING TO BE THERE AFTER THE MADAME AND IS SO WHAT'S WHAT MUCH OF THIS RELIEF DID.

>> AND SO WE KNOW THAT THERE'S STILL SOME THINGS OUTSTANDING.

YOU MENTIONED SOME LIABILITY PROTECTIONS.

I THINK THIS WAS SENATOR STIVERS' BILL.

I DON'T WANT TO SAY THE NUMBER OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

AND A NUMBER RIGHT BELOW THAT SENATE BILL 4 CRIMINAL JUSTICE WE DIDN'T EVEN RESOLUTION ON NO KNOCK WARRANTS AND WE JUST GOT A FEW HOURS ON THAT.

THE ANTI-RIGHT CAN BILL SENATE BILL.

THERE'S A LOT OUTSTANDING.

A LOT OF THINGS CAN HAPPEN US BETWEEN 11:IX TOMORROW.

JOSH CRAWFORD, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT AND I DON'T WANT TO GET TOO FAR OFF THE SUBSTANCE BUT THERE'S BEEN SOME CONVERSATION ABOUT THESE LAST FEW DAYS IN PARTICULAR, THE RUSHED NATURE OF CONSIDERING BILLS.

THEY'RE REALLY GOING THROUGH THESE VETOES IN A TURNSTILE FASHION.

AND THE HOUSE DEMOCRATIC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR HAD SENT OUT A STATEMENT BECAUSE THE HOUSE LEADERSHIP HAS DECIDED TO LIMIT DEBATE TO FIVE MINUTES TO EACH SIDE ON THESE VETO DISCUSSIONS, AND BRIAN WILKERSON, THE DEMOCRATIC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR THE HOUSE, SAYS WHAT REPUBLICAN HOUSE LEADERS DID TODAY TO SEVERELY LIMIT DEBATE ON THE GOVERNOR'S VETOES IS BOTH APPALLING AND AT LEAST IN OUR COLLECTIVE MEMORY UNPRECEDENTED THESE BILLS WILL HAVE A PROFOUND IMPACT ON ALL KENTUCKIANS AND GIVING US JUST INVIABLE CONTRACT FIVE MINUTES TO DEBATE EACH VETOED BILL, INCLUDING THE STATE BUDGET INCREDIBLY IS NOT GOOD GOVERNMENT, IT'S NOT TRANSPARENT GOVERNMENT, AND IT'S NOT THE TYPE OF GOVERNMENT KENTUCKIANS NEED AND DESERVE.

SO FOR THE SAKE OF TIME IS WHY THEY'RE DOING IT, BUT REPUBLICANS HAVE OFTEN TALKED ABOUT TRANSPARENCY, AND SUNSHINE AND SUNLIGHT'S THE GREATEST DISINFECTING, BUT IS THAT A GOOD EXAMPLE OF TRANSPARENCY?

>> I THINK WHEN IT COMES TO VETO OVERRIDES IT'S NOT AS AS MUCH OF A PREMIUMS FOLKS MIGHT THINK.

THESE BILLS HAVE AT GONE THROUGH THE PROCESS, BEEN THROUGH EACH LEGISLATIVE CHAMBER ALREADY.

THEY WERE ALL DELIVERED TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK.

THESE BILLS HAVE BEEN FULLY VETTED AND AT THIS POINT THE OVERRIDE OF VETO IS THE IN MANY CASES REAFFIRMING POSITIONS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN TAKEN, AND IN SOME CASES FOR POLITICAL REASONS ONE WAY OR ANOTHER TAKING POSITIONS A DIFFERENT WAY THAN YOU DID THE LAST TIME AROUND.

BUT THESE BILLS ARE FULLY VETTED.

WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT NEW MEASURES, YOU MAY BE CORRECT BUT IN TERMS OF VOTE MOYERS MEASURES.

>> TERRY BROOKS, DO YOU THAT I THAT TRUNCATING THAT DEBATE IS GOOD FOR BAD FOR GOVERNMENT, AND PERCEPTIONS OF IT?

>> YEAH, I THINK JOSH, I WOULD AGREE WITH JOSH.

I THINK THAT ANY LIMIT AS BILLS COME BEFORE THE LEGISLATIVE BODY INITIALLY IS NOT GOOD GOVERNMENT.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THERE IS FULL, ROBUST DIALOGUE.

IF WE'RE HONEST, WHETHER YOU'RE REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT, THE BILLS THAT ARE BEING OVERRIDDEN RIGHT NOW, THOSE WERE FAIT ACCOMPLIS WHEN THEY PASSED AND WENT TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK, SO THAT CUTS BOTH WAYS.

WE'RE SEEING IN SOME WAYS THE POWER DYNAMICS IN WASHINGTON, HOW THAT'S FLIPPED.

SO AGAIN, AND I HAVE HEARD JOSH SAY THIS, WE CERTAINLY WOULD NOT WANT TO SEE ANY CONSTRAINTS ON DEBATE AND DIALOGUE BEFORE THOSE MEASURES WERE PASSED.

I THINK THE REALTY OF TIME CONSTRAINTS AND WHERE THE PROCESS IS, I DO UNDERSTAND THE PRAGMATISM OF LIMITING THAT AFTER THE VETO.

>> AND ANOTHER PRACTICE IS THAT USING SHELL BILLS, JASON BAILIE AND ASHLI WATTS, THAT THINGS -- AND TERRY BROOKS BECOME THINGS THAT DIDN'T HAVE THAT IDENTITY ALL OF A SUDDEN DO, BUT I REMEMBER A TIME WE USED TO CALL THEM CHRISTMAS TREE BILLS.

THEY WERE CHRISTMAS TREE BILLS, RIGHT?

THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS OF I, AND YOU'D SEE ONE BILL THAT IT WAS DECORATED WITH ALL THESE OTHER UNRELATED MATTERS.

SO IT'S REALLY TIT-FOR-TAT HERE, RIGHT?

IT'S EITHER ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

THIS CREATIVE PROCESS OF SAUSAGE MAKING HAS BEEN AROUND REGARDLESS OF WHO WAS IN CONTROL OF WHICH CHAMBER.

>> IT'S DEFINITELY TRUE AND IT'S NEVER BEEN GOOD NO MATTER WHO'S BEEN IN CONTROL.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED THE VERY LAST DAY OF THE VETO PERIOD WAS A BILL GOT ADDED $175 MILLION IN TAX BREAKS FOR HOLLYWOOD, FOR DEVELOPERS.

ONE SPECIFIC CARVE-OUT FOR THE LUXURY SEAL BOCH HOTEL IN LOUISVILLE.

NONE OF THAT HAD BEEN HEARD IN A COMMITTEE.

GIVEN THE PROPER DISCUSSION, NONE OF IT AND THAT WAS AN APPROPRIATION OF $175 MILLION IN FUNDS ANNUALLY IN PERPETUITY.

THERE'S NO SUNSET ON THAT BILL.

SO MUCH MORE I HAVE CONCERN ABOUT THAT THAN WHAT IS HAPPENING TODAY.

WE'RE NOT -- WHEN WE SPEND MONEY, THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT THE LEGISLATURE DOES WHEN IT BUDGETS, AND WHEN IT BUDGETS THAT WAY, IN THE LAST MINUTE INTRODUCES TAX BREAKS FOR SPECIAL INTERESTS, LET'S BE FRANK ABOUT THIS, WITHOUT EGG VISITING IT, BUDGET IT IN THE BUDGET CHANGE AND PEOPLE COMPARE TO IT THINGS IN BUDGET, WE HAVE A BUDGET IN FRONT OF US THAT TERRY MENTIONED DOESN'T HAVE MONEY FOR SOCIAL WORKERS, IT DOESN'T HAVE EFFECTS BOOKS IN IT, THERE'S NO RAISES FOR EMPLOYEES, THERE'S NO INCREASE FROM THE K-12 SEEK FORMULA, THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF THINGS NOT IN THAT BUDGET BUT THERE'S ACTUALLY ABOUT $650 MILLION IN TAX CUTS AND TAX BREAKS FOR BUSINESS, A PORTION OF WHICH WAS IN THE BILL THAT I TALKED ABOUT THAT JUST GOT INTRODUCED IN THE LAST MINUTE.

THAT'S NOT A GOOD WAY TO GOVERN.

IT'S NOT A GOOD WAY TO SPEND TAX MONEY.

AND, YOU KNOW -- BUT IT CONTINUES TO HAPPEN.

AND THERE WAS EVEN MORE HAZARD THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN THIS TIME BECAUSE THE PUBLIC IS NOT THERE.

WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO BE THERE, FOR UNDERSTANDABLE REASONS, BALTIMORE REASON TO BE TRANSPARENT AND OPEN AND CLEAR ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> CERTAINLY, TO YOU, A LI AND JOSH, THE CAPITOL BEING CLOSED AS IT IS, THERE'S MEDIA ACCESS, AND THERE ARE A FEW LOBBYISTS I SEE ON OCCASION BUT BY AND LARGE IT'S NOT LIKE IT USED TO TO BE.

THAT CERTAINLY HAS AN IMPEDIMENT ON THE PROCESS OR NINES COMMUNICATIONS TO LAWMAKERS REGARDLESS OF WHICH SIDE YOU'RE ON.

>> IT DOES, AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT A LOT THIS SESSION, THAT THIS IS A WHOLE NEW WAY OF ADVOCACY AND GROUPS ARE HAVING TO BE REALLY CREATIVE TO GET THEIR MESSAGE ACROSS, AND I THINK TECHNOLOGY AND CELL PHONES HAVE BEEN THE BEST THING WE CAN DO.

I THINK THE ZOOMS HONESTLY HAVE HELPED CONSTITUENTS FROM ALL OVER THE STATE BE ABLE TO INTERACT WITH THEIR STATE LEGISLATOR A LITTLE EASIER THAN TAKING THE DAY OF AND DRIVING TO FRANKFORT AND SPENDING THAT TIME, AND SO I THINK THERE HAVE BEEN SOME THINGS THAT WE HAVE LEARNED THAT WE'LL CONTINUE TO USE.

I DID DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT, THOUGH, THAT ONCE IT'S SAFE THAT CITIZENS ARE ALLOWED BACK IN THE CAPITOL.

A COUPLE WERE ALLOWED HERE AND THERE TO GO TESTIFY OR TO MEET WITH LEGISLATORS BUT OBVIOUSLY DONE IN A SAFE WAY, AND I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT IT, THAT MANY PEOPLE IN THE CAPITOL BUILDING FOR THAT MANY HOURS IN THE DAY OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS, THEY'VE DONE A REALLY EXCELLENT JOB OF KEEPING EVERYONE SAFE.

I THINK THEY'VE DONE A TREMENDOUS JOB OF MAKING SURE EVERYONE'S WEARING MASKS AND SOCIAL DISTANCING AND ALL OF THAT AND STILL BEING ABLE TO WE GET GET THE WORK DONE.

I THINK FOR A LOT OF US THAT HAVE BEEN AROUND A LONG TIME, WE JOKED AT LEAST THEY GOT DOWN TO BUSINESS VERY EARLY.

THEY DON'T HAVE A COUPLE OF HOURS OF INTRODUCTIONS OF INTRODUCING VAIR JUST GROUPS, SO THEY MAY HAVE BEEN MORE PRODUCTIVE ON SOME STANCES, BUT I DO THINK THE CITIZENS NEED TO BE ALLOWED BACK IN THE CAPITOL, AND HOPEFULLY THAT WILL RESUME NOW THAT VACCINATORS GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND THE POSITIVITY RATES ARE LOW, HOPEFULLY THAT WILL COME BACK SOON.

>> AND WE ARE SEEING MORE ACTIVITIES ON THE CAPITOL GROUNDS.

THERE ARE LOTS OF GROUPS TODAY.

AND THE WEATHER IS PERMITTING THAT ACTIVITY THAT WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED BACK IN EARLY MARCH AND FEBRUARY OF COURSE.

LET'S TALK ABOUT, I WANT TO GET TO THE POWER PLACEMENTS SINCE HOW I'M GOING FRAME THAT IT JASON BAILEY BROUGHT UP EARLIER EARLIER ABOUT THE TRANSFER OF POWER FROM THE GOVERNOR TO OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS, INCLUDING THE STATE TREASURER.

THERE ARE SEVERAL BILLS IN THE DOZENS THAT DO THAT.

WHAT'S YOUR TAKE ON THAT, JOSH CRAWFORD?

IS THIS DOES U. GYRES GRAB AS DEMOCRATS HAVE DEANNOUNCED IT OR IS THERE SOME SOLID REASONING THAT THIS SHOULD BE HAPPENING THAT'S NOT JUST GROUND IN POLITICAL CHESS PLAYING?

>> SO I THINK THE ANSWER TO THAT IS PROBABLY BOTH.

I THINK SOME OF THIS IS A DIRECT OUTGROWTH OF TIME PERIOD THAT WEAVE LIVED THROUGH IN TERMS OF PANDEMIC.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT SENATE BILL 1 SUSPECT I THINK LEGISLATOR ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, WHETHER THERE ARE SAME POLITICAL MARTY, SUPER MAJORITIES IN THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE AND IN THE LEGISLATURE ARE REEVALUATING THIS SORT OF EXECUTIVE AUTHORITY ADVICE LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY.

>> DURING EMERGENCIES.

>> ESPECIALLY DURING EMERGENCIES, CORRECT.

AND SO WHEN WE SAT DOWN TO EXPLORE THIS ISSUE IN MAY OF LAST YEAR, WE SOUGHT TO BASICALLY PUT FORWARD RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WOULD WORK IN A STATE LIKE KENTUCKY WHERE THERE ARE RECOMMENDS WITH MAJORITIES IN THE LEGISLATURE IN A DEMOCRAT GOVERNOR, A STATE LIKE MASSACHUSETTS WHERE THERE'S A REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR AND DEMOCRATIC MAJORITIES AND STATES LIKE CALIFORNIA WHERE THERE ARE SUPER MAJORITY IN BOTH PARTIES.

THERE IS BETWEEN THE LEGISLATIVE CHAMBER AND THE EXECUTIVE.

THE OTHER THING AT PLAY HERE IS THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IN 46 YEARS THAT THERE HAS BEEN A GOVERNOR OF A DIFFERENT PARTY THAN BOTH LEGISLATIVE CHAMBERSEUX, AND IT'S ONLY THE FOURS TIME IT'S HAPPENED IN KENTUCKY'S HISTORY SINCE 1900.

TYPICALLY WE HAVE SPLIT LEGISLATIVE CHAMBERS, ION PART CONTROL, AND SO THERE IS THAT SORT OF TUG AND PULL ON, OKAY, WE'VE DONE THINGS THIS WAY FOR THE LAST 46 YEARS BUT WE'VE DONE THEM WITH THE EXPECTATION THAT THE BILLS THAT WE SEND TO THE GOVERNOR ARE GOING TO BE INTERPRETED AND SIGNED AND EXECUTED THE WAY THAT WE SEE FIT.

THERE'S I THINK SOMETHING TO THIS QUESTION OF DEMOCRATIC ACCOUNTABLE AND MOVING FROM EXECUTIVE AGENCIES TO OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICE HOLDERS FOR MORE DEMCLY ACCOUNTABLE BUT I THINK SOME OF THIS IS IS I GENERAL RESTRUCTURE GIVEN THE TIME APPRECIATED WE'RE IN THAT'S A RELATIVE UNIQUE ONE.

>> AND WE REMEMBER THAT AND THIS WAS POINT OUT IN A NEWS ARTICLE THAT JUST A FEW YEARS AGO THEY WERE TRYING TO GET RID OF TREASURER'S DEPARTMENT.

>> THAT'S JUST PARTISAN POLITICS IN THAT CASE WHICH IS A LOT OF WHAT'S GOING ON HERE IN THE POLL THAT YOU'RE SEEING, AND IT'S TO BE EXPECTED, BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO SORT OFY SORT OUT, SORT THAT OUT FROM BEING PRACTICAL AND ABOUT WHAT THE DIFFERENT BRANCHES GOVERNMENT AND WHAT THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES ARE.

TO ME A PANDEMIC HAS MADE EVEN MORE CLEAR THE IMPORTANCE OF THE EXECUTIVE FUNCTION.

THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO RESPOND RAPIDLY IN A 1-800-THAT THE LEGISLATURE, DELIBERATIVE BODY OF 128 PEOPLE CAN.

EASTERN KENTUCKY IS UNDERWATER YET AGAIN FOR THE SECOND TIME IN THE LAST MONTH.

WE HAVE TO HAVE AN EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAT CAN GET RELIEF OUT THERE TO PEOPLE.

AND WITH THE PANDEMIC I THINK THAT THE ACTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN TAKEN HAVE -- YOU CAN DEBATE THE SPECIFICS AND HOW FAR THEY'VE GONE, BUT THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT ACTIONS TAKEN HAVE SAVED LIVES.

AND HE COULDN'T -- THE ACTIONS COULDN'T HAVE BEEN TAKEN THAT QUICKLY WITHOUT THOSE POWERS AND AUTHORITIES.

ARE THERE THINGS TO LOOK AT IN TERMS OF BROADER REFORMS THAT MAYBE OUR CONSTITUTION IS A LITTLE OUT OF DATE?

I THINK SO.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THE LEGISLATURE MEETING 60 DAYS A YEAR OR 30 DAYS A YEAR WHEN THEY HAVE SO MANY MORE RESPONSIBILITIES THAN THEY DID WHEN THE CONSTITUTION WAS WRITTEN, I THINK MAKES SOME SENSE.

AS HARD AS THAT WOULD BE ON SOME OF US, THEY HAVE IMPORTANT DECISIONS TO MAKE IN A REALLY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

>> SO YOU'RE FORT BILL THAT WAS BY THE SPEAKER, I BELIEVE, THAT WOULD ELIMINATE THE SINE DIE DATES OF APRIL THE 30th OR APRIL 15th AND THE EVEN YEARS IN MARCH 30TH AND THE ODD YEARS.

YOU BELIEVE THEY SHOULD HAVE SOME FLEXIBILITY COME BACK WHENEVER THEY ARE NEEDED.

>> I THINK WE HAVE SPECIAL SESSIONS ANYWAY.

WE HAVE TO.

BECAUSE THERE ARE IMPORTANT THINGS THE LEGISLATURE NEEDS TO DO.

THOSE THINGS ARE FINE AND ARE REASONABLE.

I THINK MANY PEOPLE THINK THAT OUR OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICES WITH SOME OF THEM ARE ANTIQUATED.

DO THEY REALLY MAKE SENSE?

TO GIVE THEM MORE POWERS AND TO GIVE THE GOVERNOR LESS SO THAT WE HAVE FIVE EXECUTIVE OFFICERS RATHER THAN PRIMARILY ONE?

I DON'T THINK THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.

AND I THINK THAT THE MAJORITY PARTY IN THE LEGISLATURE WOULD REGRET THAT IF THE TABLE WERE TURNED.

>> WHEN I WAS GOING TO ASK ASHLI WATTS, SLIT IS IT SHORT TIED AT BECAUSE OF WHO'S IN POWER NOW AND WHAT OFFICES TO MAYBE GO ALONG WITH SOME OF THESE CLAMPDOWNS ON THE GOVERNOR THERE WELL COULD BE THAT YOU NEED THAT LATER ON?

>> YEAH, I THINK FROM THE CHAMBER PERSPECTIVE AND FROM BUSINESSES WE'VE TALKED TO OVER THE LAST YEAR, THEY REALLY WANT TO FOCUS ON THE POLICY AND NOT THE POLITICS.

AND SO WE TRY TO KIND OF STAY OUT OF THESE SEPARATION OF POWERS ISSUES BECAUSE EVERY FOUR YEARS IT KIND OF TURNS -- THINGS CHANGE.

AND SO I DO HOPE IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF 28 HOURS OR HOWEVER LONG WE HAVE LEFT TO REALLY LOOK THROUGH THE LIST OF BILLS THAT HAVE PASSED AND HOPE THAT WE REALLY HAVE MOVED FORWARD IN TERMS OF POLICY, IN TERMS CORRECT RECOVERY, AND THAT THAT WILL BE THE THEME OF THE SESSION THAT WILL NOT BE THIS PARTISAN PLOK KIND OF SHIFTING POWERS AROUND.

I THINK KENTUCKIANS WANT POLICY THAT WILL GET PEOPLE BACK TO WORK AND RECOVER, NOT KIND OF THE POLITICAL FIGHTING.

>> SO IS THAT WHAT YOU WOULD SAY, TERRY BROOKS, THAT YOU REALLY DON'T WANT TO GET ENGAGED IN SEPARATION OF POWER USUALS AND THE POWER PLAYS AND POWER GRABS THAT COULD BE GOING ON.

YOU WANT TO CONCENTRATE ON POLICY?

OR DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THESE KIND OF DISCUSSIONS OF AN IMPACT ON THE CHILDREN AND FAMILIES YOU'RE DRYING TO AFFECT?

>> YEAH, I'M NOT SURE IF YOU CAN TALK ABOUT POLICY WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT WHERE POWER RESIDES ITSELF.

WHAT I WOULD LOVE TO THINK, AND MY PANEL, FELLOW PANELISTS MAY ROLL THEIR EYES AND SAY I HAVE IT HAS SET IN WITH OLD AGE FOR ME, BUT I THINK EVIDENTLY PRESIDENT BIDEN'S FAVORITE WORD IS PARADIGM.

I LOVE THAT.

MAYBE WHAT WE NEED IS A NEW PARADIGM ON GOVERNANCE.

MAYBE WE NEED TO REDEFINE THE RULES OF THE LEGISLATURE AND THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, AND COULD WE POSSIBLY MAKE SOME COMMON CANVAS?

WY GUESS IS MY THREE FELLOW PANELISTS WOULD AGREE THAT IN TERMS OF THINKING ABOUT ALL OF THOSE FEDERAL DOLLARS, IT WOULD BE SO MUCH BETTER AND MORE FILLED WITH WISDOM AND ACUMEN IF THE GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS COULD HAVE COME TOGETHER ON A LONGER PERIOD OF TIME AND REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT BEST USE OF THOSE FEDERAL DOLLARS.

IF WE KNOW THAT THAT CHILD TAX CREDIT IS GOING TO IMPACT 93% OF KENTUCKY'S KIDS, IT'S GOING TO LIFT 143,000 KIDS FROM POVERTY, ARE THERE OTHER NUGGETS IN THOSE FEDERAL DOLLARS THAT A HOUSE, SENATE AND GOVERNOR CONVERSATION COULD HAVE DEEPENED THE IMPACT?

SO AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO SOUND NAIVE, BUT MAYBE THIS CRISIS OF GOVERNANCE, MAYBE THOSE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT DEBATE COULD SUGGESTS THAT WE NEED TO INVENT A NEW WAY TO TACKLE COMMON ISSUES, MAYBE JUST MAYBE A NEW FORM OF THINKING AND STRATEGY COULD EMANATE FROM THIS CURRENT KIND OF FOOD FIGHT THAT WE'RE SEEING.

>> TO YOUR POINT ABOUT THE FEDERAL DOLLARS FROM THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN, THIS QUESTION FROM ROSEANNE CLAIRE FROM GEORGETOWN, AS FAR AS THE MONEY FROM THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN IS CONCERNED, HOW MUCH OF THIS WILL GO TO THE SUFFERING, THE HUNGRY AND UNHOUSED PEOPLE OF KENTUCKY AND WHEN?

SO JASON BAIL, I'LL LET YOU ANSWER THAT.

>> YEAH, THAT'S THE BIG QUESTION AROUND THAL ALLOCATION OF STATE MONEY.

THERE'S BROADER MONEYS FROM THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN THAT GOES TO DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE THE CHILD TAX CREDIT AND SURPLUS STATEMENTS BUT $2.6 BILLION IS GOING DIRECTLY TO STATE GOVERNMENT THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DECIDE HOW TO SPEND, AND AMONG THE USES OF THAT, THE POTENTIAL USES OF THAT ARE DIRECT RELIEF TO PEOPLE -- TO ADDRESS THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF THIS -- TO HOUSEHOLDS AND INDIVIDUALS AND FAMILIES AND SO FORTH OF THIS -- OF THE ECONOMIC PART OF THIS PANDEMIC.

AND IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE, ONE, GET THAT MONEY OUT THE DOOR.

IT'S CALLED AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN FOR A REASON.

IT NEEDS TO PLAY A KEY ROLE IN HELPING PEOPLE ADDRESS HARDSHIP AS WE GO THROUGH THE REMAINDER OF THIS PANDEMIC.

WE NEED TO HOLD ONTO IT.

>> ALTHOUGH YOU HAVE UNTIL 2024 TO SPEND IT, RIGHT, TO CAMPUS THE FUNDS.

>> YOU DO, BUT THE -- EXPOS THE FUNDS.

>> BUT THE IMPACT WOULD BE LARGER IF WE GOT IT OUTER NOW.

AND SO THAT'S GOING TO BE A REAL TEST OVER THESE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS, IS THE LEGISLATURE GOING TO APPROPRIATE THOSE FUNDS?

I THINK THEY SHOULD.

I THINK THEY NEED THE GET THE POINT MONEY OUT TO DOOR.

IF THEY DON'T I THINK THE GOVERNOR NEEDS TO USE HIS EXECUTIVE AUTHORITY AUTHORITIES JUST LIKE HE DID THE CARES ACT, AND NUMBER ONE AUTHORITY, IT NEEDS TO BE THE PEOPLE OF WHO ARE HURTING THE MOST, THE INDIVIDUALS, THE FAMILIES.

WE STILL HAVE 100,000 FEWER KENTUCKIANS EMPLOYED THAN WE DID A YEAR AGO.

WE HAVE ONE IN FIVE RENTERS THAT BEHIND ON THEIR RENT PAYMENTS AND IN DEBTS.

WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUFFERING, AND WE DON'T NEED TO SQUIRREL MONEY WE DON'T NEED TO PUT MONEY IN A RAINY DAY FUND WHEN IT IS POURING WEEK A TORRENTIAL DOWNPOUR FOR COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE STATE.

SO THAT'S THE KEY TEST OF THESE NEXT COUPLE DAYS AND THE WOKS TO COME.

>> AND, OF COURSE, EVEN PASS LEGS THAT SAYS IN THE GOVERNOR DECIDES TO SPEND THAT MONEY BUT LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY HE GETS FIND $900,000.

WHERE DOES THAT MONEY GO TOO, THAT 900,000 SOMETHING DOLLARS COME FROM?

>> IT'S GOING HAMM TER RECOVERY IF THEY TRY TO OR IF THEY SUCCEED IN SHUTTING DOWN THE USE OF THAT MONEY.

WE NEED E. TO GET IT OUT.

THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CARES ACT MONEY.

THAT'S WHY WE HAVE A SURPLUS IN STATE GOVERNMENT, IS THAT PEOPLE SPENT THEIR STIMULUS CHECKS, PEOPLE SPENT EXPANDED UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS.

THE GOVERNOR GOT THAT MONEY OUT, AND I THINK HE DID A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF DOING THAT.

WE ARE NOT TO THE OTHER INSIDE OF PANDEMIC, EVEN CLOSE AND PEOPLE ARE HURTING.

>> ASHLI WATTS, HOW WOULD YOU RECOMMEND SIMPLIFY THAT MONEY HELP YOUR STITZ, MAINLY THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY?

MAYBE INFRASTRUCTURE, BROADBAND?

THERE'S A BIG BROADBAND EFFORT THAT'S OUT THERE.

>> THERE IS.

>> $50 MILLION WORTH.

>> AND TERRY PAINTED A GREAT PICTURE OF KIND OF THIS BIPARTISAN EFFORT, AND I THINK WE CAN ACTUALLY DO THAT.

HAVE A LIST OF BILLS THAT HAVE ALREADY PASSED IN FRONT OF ME AND I'VE CHECKED ALL THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN PAVED BARNETT NATURE& THERE'S A LOT OF PEM THIS.

THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF GOOD WORK DONE THIS SESSION WHERE BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE HAVE COME TOGETHER TO REALLY MOVE KENTUCKY FORWARD.

I THINK ON THE STIMULUS PACKAGE, JASON IS RIGHT, $2.6 BILLION AND THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE THE ENHANCED UNEMPLOYMENT, CHILD CARE BENEFITS, THE STIMULUS PAYMENTS.

THE THING THAT WE WOULD REALLY LIKE TO BE REALLY PRIORITIZED IS THE UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE TRUST FUND.

SO WE'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT THIS IN THE LAST YEAR.

WE HAD A PRETTY HEALTHY TRUST FUND HERE IN KENTUCKY.

WE ALL KNOW THE VERY QUICKLY OVERNIGHT WE HAD THE HIGHEST RATE OF UNEMPLOYMENT IN THE NATION.

OUR TRUST FUND WAS DEPLETED, AND SO WE HAD TO TAKE OUT ABOUT A $700 MILLION LOAN FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

AND HOW DO YOU PAY THAT LOAN BACK?

IT'S ON THE BACKS OF EVERY SINGLE EMPLOYER.

AND SO THERE'S BEEN SEVERAL BILLS THIS SESSION TO TRY INORGANIC TO NOT BURDEN BUSINESSES OF ALL SIZES REALLY WITH THAT EXTRA DEBT, EXTRA TAX OF HAVING TO PAY FOR THAT INCREASED UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE, BUT THE BEST WAY TO DO IT IS TO PAY BACK OUR FEDERAL LOAN AND THEN TO REPLENISH THE FUND, AND THAT'S ABOUT $1 BILLION, AND THAT IS A HUGE NUMBER, I KNOW.

>> THAT'S HALF OF WHAT YOU'RE GETTING FROM THE FEDS.

>> BUT IF WE REALLY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GET PEOPLE BACK TO WORK, GET JOBS BACK WOULD BE GET BUSINESSES BACK ONLINE, WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE UNEMPLOYMENT TRUST FUND, AND I THINK THAT REALLY IS A BIPARTISAN ISSUE.

WE HAVE HAD "GREAT CONVERSATIONS" WITH BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE ON THAT.

SO I'M REALLY HOPEFUL THAT IN THE NEXT 27 OR SO HOURS THERE CAN BE KIND OF SOME NEGOTIATION ON THAT TO REALLY LOOK AT THE UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE TRUST FUND THAT WILL HELP ESPECIALLY SMALL BUSINESSES WHO ARE REALLY STRUGGLING.

BUT ARE ALSO BROADBAND, THAT'S A GREAT USE FOR IT.

I THINK WE ALL KNOW IN THIS LAST YEAR HOW IMPORTANT CONNECTIVITY IS AND HOW IMPORTANT BROADBAND IS.

IT REALLY IS ESSENTIAL INFRASTRUCTURE FOR WORK, FOR SCHOOL, FOR EVERYTHING.

SO THERE ARE SEVERAL GOOD USES.

INFRASTRUCTURE I THINK MAY BE A DIFFERENT FEDERAL PACKAGE.

WE WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SEE A STATE INFRASTRUCTURE PACKAGE THAT MAYBE PART OF A LARGER PACKAGE.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT'S POSSIBLE IN THE NEXT 27 HOURS?

>> I WILL BE THE INTERNAL OPTIMIST ON THIS.

I'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS ISSUE FOR ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE YEARS, AND I WILL SAY THE LAST TIME WE DID ANYTHING WITH THE GAS TAX WAS 2015, AND THAT BILL PASSED AT ABOUT 11:00 P.M. ON THE LAST NIGHT.

>> SO TELL PEOPLE WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR.

>> I'LL BE VERY CLEAR WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IS AN INCREASE IN THE GAS TAX, ABOUT 10-CENT INCREASE IN THE GAS TAX.

THERE ARE WAYS TO OFF-Y SET THAT TO NOT HARM KENTUCKIANS ESPECIALLY IN TIME OF A PANDEMIC, BUT RIGHT NOW WE THINK THE BEST WAY FOR ECONOMIC RECOVERY IS TO INCREASE OUR INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE A PLACE THAT BUSINESSES WANT TO COME.

WE ARE GOING TO BE AN ISLAND VERY SOON OF A STATE THAT IS SURROUND BY STATES THAT HAVE ALL DONE THIS, THAT HAVE REALLY BEEN ABLE TO ATTRACT INVESTMENT IN, AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE A LARGE COALITION ON.

THE CITIES, THE COUNTIES, SCHOOL BOARDS, FARM BUREAU, ALL CHAMBERS COMMERCE, REALLY A BIPARTISAN ISSUE, AND I WILL BE HOPEFUL MILLION TOMORROW NIGHT AT MIDNIGHT THAT WE CAN GET SOMETHING ACROSS THE FINISH LINE.

>> AND THAT'S GOING TO REQUIRE A HIRE THRESHOLD OF VOTES.

>> IT IS.

IT'S AN APPROPRIATION SO WE NEED 60 VOTES IN THE HOUSE AND I THINK 23 IN THE SENATE.

BUT AGAIN, WE HAVE DONE THIS IN ODD NUMBERED SESSIONS BEFORE.

IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A BIPARTISAN ISSUE, EVERY SINGLE TIME, AND SO WE'RE HOPEFUL THAT'S HOW IT SHAKES OUT IN THE NEXT DAY AND A HALF.

>> THIS IS WHERE THOSE CHRISTMAS TREE ORNAMENTS OR ANOTHER SHELF A BILL -- >> MAYBE OR MAYBE EVEN PART OF IT IF THEY'RE GOING SEX OFFENDER THEIR OWN MONEY AND HOW THAT GOES DOWN.

I'M NOT SURE OF THAT.

I'M NOT SURE OF THE THOUGHTS BEHIND IT.

BUT I THINK FOR KENTUCKIANS IT'S IMPORTANT WE PRIORITIZE THIS IN THE NEXT DAY AND MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN TRULY RECOVER BY INVESTING IN OUR INFRASTRUCTURE.

>> SO TERRY BROOKS, I WANT TO ASK YOU IF YOU HAD YOUR SHOT AT THIS $2.4 BILLION AND WE KNOW THERE'S A SEPARATE POT OF MONEY THAT GOES TO SCHOOLS, BUT HOW WOULD YOU WANT THAT TO BENEFIT CHILDREN AND FAMILIES IN KENTUCKY?

>> SURE.

WELL, FIRST OF ALL, RENEE, LET'S GET A GRIP ON WHAT THE PANDEMIC HAS DONE TO KIDS.

IF WE WERE TO TALK ABOUT ECONOMIC WELL-BEING OUT OF KIDS COUNT A YEAR AGO, YOU WOULD HAVE HEARD ME SAY THE TREND LINE WAS GOOD.

WE STILL HAD 22% OF KENTUCKY'S KIDS IN POVERTY, WHICH WAS UNACCEPTABLE, BUT THE LATEST DATA, THE DATA FROM THE CENSUS BUREAU FROM ABOUT A MONTH AGO INDICATES THAT TWO-THIRDS OF KENTUCKY FAMILIES HAVE LESS INCOME THAN THEY DID A YEAR AGO.

SO THAT ECONOMIC TRENDS LINE IS DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT.

AS JASON INDICATED, WE HAVE REAL WORRIES, 38% OF KENTUCKY'S FAMILIES IN THAT LAST DATA INDICATE THAT THEY DON'T KNOW WHETHER THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE MORTGAGE OR RENT.

22% OF KENTUCKY'S KIDS DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH HAD TO EAT LAST WEEK.

SO LET'S BE VERY CLEAR THAT WHAT KIDS ARE FACING AND WHAT FAMILIES ARE FACING IS A CRISIS, AND THE IDEA THAT WE THINK WE'RE GOING TELL THOSE FAMILIES JUST KIND OF HANG ON FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS WHILE WE FIGURE OUT THE BALANCE OF POWER IN FRANKFORT IS UNACCEPTABLE.

I THINK, AS FOLKS HAVE MENTIONED, THERE ARE SOME EASY PROJECTS THAT WE CAN ALL AGREE ON.

WE KNOW THAT BROADBAND ACCESS IMPACTS RURAL COMMUNITIES AND URBAN COMMUNITIES, TELEHEALTH AND EDUCATION ACROSS THE BOARD.

GREAT NEWS.

I'M CURIOUS, AND I WONDER, I'M GOING TO USE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE PHRASE HERE, WHAT IF WE USE SOME OF THAT MONEY FOR VENTURE CAPITAL.

THERE ARE SOME TAX POLICIES THAT I THINK ASHLI AND JOSH AND JASON AND I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT AND WE ALL AGREE ON, A STATE REFUNDABLE EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT, EXPANDING THE DEPENDENT CHILD CREDIT WHICH IMPACTS CHILD CARE ACCESS WHICH IMPACTS THE WORKFORCE.

I ALREADY MENTIONED THE STATE CHILD TAX CREDIT.

WE ALWAYS HEAR SUPPORT FOR THAT BUT WE JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO PUSH THAT OVER.

WHAT IF WE USED SOME OF THESE FEDERAL DOLLARS AS SEED CAPITAL TO ENACT TAX POLICIES THAT ARE NOT BUDGET BUSTERS BUT ACTUALLY BOLSTER THE SAY THE BUDGET AND BOLSTER FAMILIES?

SO LET'S TAKE CARE OF SOME IMMEDIATE KIND OF NO-BRAINER ASPECTS OF BROADBAND ACCESS, BUT LET'S GET CREATIVE, LET'S DO RESEARCH-BASED NOTIONS OF HOW TO GROW THOSE RESOURCES, AGAIN REALIZING THAT KENTUCKY'S FAMILIES CANNOT WAIT TWO YEARS OR ONE YEAR.

THEY NEED RELIEF YESTERDAY.

>> DR. CRAWFORD, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THATTED WHY THE EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT ON A STATE LEVEL?

PERHAPS BROADBAND YOU ALREADY AGREE ON.

THERE IS A QUESTION HERE ABOUT CONSUMPTION-BASED TAXES.

SO WHAT DOES THE PANEL BELIEVE IT WILL TAKE TO MODERNIZE THE TAX CODE TOWARD A CONSUMPTION BASED TAX CODE LIKE TEXAS AND TENNESSEE?

IS THERE AFTER APPETITE THAT DURING THE NEXT SESSION?

>> YES, THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS IN THERE, RIGHT?

THERE'S A LOT OF IDEAS THAT WERE JUST 39 TIME NOW.

SOME I AGREE WITH MORE THAN OTHERS.

IN ADDITION TO THAT THE KENTUCKY STATE POLICE HAVE BEEN UNDERFUND FOR 15 YEARS.

WE'RE ASKING THEM TO DO MORE WITH MEPs WE'VE SEEN DOMESTIC VIOLENCE INCIDENCES INCREASE ALL ACROSS THE COMMONWEALTH.

OUR RAPE CRISIS CENTERS AND DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SHELTERS NEED HELP.

THESE ARE ALL IDEAS THAT ARE WORTH CONSIDERING.

IT WOULD BE TRULY WONDERFUL IF THERE WERE SOME SORT OF DELIBERATIVE PROCESS BY WHICH REGIONS OF THE STATE COULD SEND A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL TO A ROOM AND ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE WOULD GET TOGETHER AND TALK ABOUT WHAT ARE THESE THING TO FUND, WHAT ARE HIGHER PRIORITIES THAN OTHERS.

THE WONDERFUL THING IS THAT WE HAVE THAT PROCESS THE IN COMMONWEALTH OFX THAT'S THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

AND SO NO MATTER HOW QUICKLY OR EASILY AN EXECUTIVE SPREAD, A GOVERNOR CAN GET MONEY OUT TO CERTAIN PLACES, YOU WILL NEVER SEE THAT SORT OF DELIBERATIVE PROCESS HAPPEN THE SAME WAY BECAUSE THE REALTY IS WE'VE GONE INTO A YEAR WHERE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SICK, BUSINESSES HAVE BEEN SHUT DOWN, PEOPLE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO GO TO WORK, AND THINGS ARE BAD.

WE WERE A POOR STATE BEFORE THIS.

AND SO THAT'S WHY I THINK THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY HAS SPENT SO MUCH TIME THIS SESSION TRYING TO REFORM DIFFERENT SYSTEMS TO TRY TO MAKE THEM BETTER FOR THE FUTURE, BUT THE REALTY IS THAT THERE ARE NEEDS OFWHERE, AND THE ONLY WAY THAT WE'RE GOING TO MEET THOSE NEEDS AND THE ORDER THAT THESE NEEDS NEED TO BE MET IS A DELIBERATIVE PROCESS LIKE A LEGISLATIVE PROCESS, AND THAT'S WHY THE LEGISLATIVE BODY IS THE APPROPRIATOR.

SO WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WEBSITES REALLY ONLY APPROPRIATE FOR THE LEGISLATURE TO DO THAT REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE.

>> BUT THERE ARE RULES THAT THE FEDERAL GOV SAYS THESE ARE THE GUARDS RAILS FOR YOU TO USE THIS MONEY.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> I DON'T KNOW IF THOSE RULES ARE CLEAR YET.

>> WE'RE AWAITING THAT FROM THE TREASURY.

>> RIGHT.

>> YOU CANNOT USE THE MONEY, THOUGH, FOR TAX CUTS, AND THERE HAS TO BE SPECIFIC INTERPRETATION OF COMPATIBLE WHAT MA MEANS BUT IT'S CONCERNING.

LIGHT OF STATES ARE STOPPING PASSING ANY MORE TAX CUTS UNTIL THEY WAIT TO HEAR SO THAT THEY DON'T GET DINGED AND HAVE THEIR FEDERAL AID REDUCED.

WE DIDN'T DO THAT THIS TIME.

IN FACT, THE LEGISLATURE PASSED $650 MILLION IN BUSINESS TAX CUTS OF VARIOUS KINDS WHICH CREATES SOME RISK.

>> SO DOES THAT YOU PUT THAT MONEY IN JEOPARDY?

>> IT DOES IT.

PUTS A PORTION OF IN IT JEOPARDY.

WE'LL HAVE TO SEE HOW TREASURY REPRESENTS THAT.

IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT IT SAYS -- >> THE EXTENT OF TAX CREDIT DOLLARS BE WAS DO THOSE COUNT AS TAX CURRENTS THE LANGUAGE.

>> THE BILL LANGUAGE INCLUDES TAX CREDITS, ET CETERA.

WE'LL SEE HOW THAT GETS INTERPRETED IT'S CONCERNING.

WE WANT GIVE IN OPPORTUNITY AWAY BECAUSE IT'S NOT COMING BACK.

THIS IS A ONE-TIME CHANCE, AND THERE'S SOME IMPORTANT THINGS THAT THE GOVERNOR HAS LAID OUT.

HE PUT OUT A PROPOSAL PROPOSAL FOR $475,000 FOR PAYMENTS FOR PEOPLE WHO MAKE LESS THAN $25,000 A YEAR.

THAT WILL GO TO THE PEOPLE WHO NEED IT MOST.

WATER AND WASTEWATER IS A POTENTIAL USE OF SOME OF THESE MONEYS.

WE DON'T HAVE CLEAN DRINKING WATER IN MARTIN COUNTY, KENTUCKY.

THAT IS A, FRANKLY A DISGRACE OF THIS STATE THAT COMPIL EXISTS.

MONEY CAN GO INTO THINGS LIKE THAT.

WE DON'T NEED TO GIVE IT AWAY ON TAX CUTS.

EYE U. I'M AFRAID WE ALREADY PUT OURSELVES AS THE SOME RISK THAT OF, AND WE DON'T NEED TO CONTINUE ON THAT LINE IN THE NEXT 24 HOURS.

>> RIGHT.

SO THE QUESTION THAT JEFF SIMS HAD ASKED FROM WALLED CAUDAL RELL COUNTY ABOUT MODERNIZE THE TAX CORD TOWARD A CONSUMPTION BASED TAX SYSTEM NOT HAPPENING THIS SESSION BUT THE POSSIBILITIES OF THAT HAPPENING NEXT YEAR WHEN THERE IS ANOTHER BUDGET PROCESS, AND PERHAPS THAT'S THE BEST TIME TO DO IT THEN, ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC THAT THAT CONVERSATION COULD UNFOLD THEN?

>> I THINK.

SO I THINK BOTH IN TERMS OF STATE TOOTED CODE AND LOCAL TAXES THERE IS THIS IMPETUS FOR REFORM.

I THINK THAT WE LOOK AT OUR NEIGHBORS TO THE NORTH, WE LOOK AT OUR NEIGHBORHOODS TO THE SOUTH, WE SEE HOW UNCOMPETITIVE OUR TAX STRUCTURE IS TO THEIRS, AND A COMPETITIVE TAX STRUCTURE DOES NOT NECESSARILY MAKE A SUCCESSFUL STATE.

THERE ARE A WIDE RAY OF THINGS THAT GO INTOING A PROSPEROUS STATE BUT A TAX STRUCTURE IS ABSOLUTELY ONE OF THEM.

AND OUR NEIGHBORS TO THE NORTH IN INDIANA'S AND SOUTH IN TENNESSEE ARE REGULARLY KING OR BUTT AND THEY HAVE TAX INSTINCTS OF STRUCTURES WITH, DIFFERENT FROM ONE OTHER, THAT RELY MORE ON CONSUMPTION BASED TAXES.

>> JASON BAILEY, PERHAPS TERRY BROOKS, THAT WE HAVE ALREADY STUMBLE ON THE TAX CODE IN MODERNIZATION.

>> WE'VE CUT TAXES FOR THE WEALTHY.

WE'VE CUT TAXES FOR CORPORATIONS, AND THE RESULT IS WE DON'T HAVE MONEY TO INCREASE FUNDING IN OUR SEEK FORMULA, OUR K-12 FUNDING FORM LAW.

WE DON'T HAVE MONEY FOR TEXTBOOKS AND THE OTHER NECESSITIES THAT YOU ACTUALLY NEED TO BUILD A STRONG ECONOMY.

AND THE MOST PROSPEROUS STATES IN THE COUNTRY ARE THOSE THAT INVEST, AND THE WAY THEY INVEST IS THEY ASK MORE OF THOSE WHO HAVE MORE.

THE PEOPLE AT THE TOP AND CORPORATIONS HAVE TO CHIP IN.

IF WE'RE JUST CUTTING TAXES FOR THEM AND SHIFTING THEM OVER TO WORKING CLASS PEOPLE AND THE POOR, WE'RE JUST GOING TO WIDE TEIN DIVIDES IN OUR STATE AND OUR STATE'S GOING DO NOT ON THE PATH THAT IT'S BEEN FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

>> SO WE TALKED LAST WEEK FOR AN HOUR ABOUT SCHOLARSHIP TAX CREDIT WITNESS SO IF YOU WERE EXPECTING TO HEAR A LOT ABOUT THAT I'LL GIVE THE PANEL AN OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT ON THAT IF THEY'D LIKE BUT WED A REALLY GOOD DISCUSSION LAST WEEK, AND I KNOW THAT THE HOUSE HAS OVERRIDDEN HOUSE BILL 5EY.

THEY GOT THE NECESSARY 51 VOTES TO DO THAT WHEN IT CAME OUT, IT WAS 48 TO 47 SO THEY MANAGED TO MUSTER UP THE NECESSARY VOTES TO GET IT.

ANYONE WANT TO MAKE A COMMENT ABOUT THAT IN TERMS OF, JASON BAILEY, YOU TALKING ABOUT PUBLIC EDUCATION AND K ACCEPT, ANNA BAUMAN FROM YOUR ORGANIZATION WAS TALKING ABOUT IT BEING A THREAT TO PUBLIC SCHOOL FUNDING AND IT KEENE INCREASE LOCAL TAXES DOWN THE ROAD PERHAPS.

>> IT'S STEP TOWARD DISMANNEDELING OUR PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM IF YOU LOOK AT STATES THAT HAVE GONE DOWN THIS ROAD, WE'RE DOING IS TANK MONEY OUT GENERAL FUND THAT GOES PRIMARILY TO EDUCATION AND WE'RE GIVING TO IT PRIVATE ENTITIES, FUNDED BY LARGE WEALTHY DONORS WHO WILL BE THE ONES WHO CAN GET UP TO $1 MILLION.

IF THEY DONATE SECURITIES, THEY CAN ACTUALLY MAKE MONEY OFF THE DEAL.

THEY CAN PROFIT OFF OF IT.

AND GIVE THAT TO ENTITIES THAT AREN'T ACCOUNTABLE TO THE WAYS IN WHICH OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE FOR NOT GYM DISCRIMINATING AGAINST STUDENTS, PROVIDING EQUAL OPPORTUNITY NO MATTER WHERE YOU LIVE.

WILL IT CONTINUE TO UNMIND TO THE TUNE OF $25 MILLION TART STARTING OUT THE AMOUNT OF MONEY WE HAVE FOR OUR SCHOOLS.

THIS IS A MUCH DIFFERENT DIRECTION THAN WE STARTED ON WHEN WE PASSED THE KENTUCKY EDUCATION RENORM ACT AND WE DECIDED WE HAD THIS CONSTITUTIONAL RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVIDE A COMMON -- A SYSTEM OF COMMON SCHOOLS THROUGHOUT STATE WHERE EVERY KID HAD THE SAME SHOT.

WE'RE HEADING AWAY FROM THAT NOW AND ERODING IT AND ARE IT'S A DANGEROUS STEP IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.

I'M SORRY TO SEE IT PASS.

>> JOSH CRAWFORD WITH PEGASUS, I KNOW THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT YOU ALL HAVE BEEN ON.

YOUR THOUGHTS.

>> IF WE ASSUME THAT EVERYTHING THAT JASON AND I DISAGREE ABOUT WHEN IT COMES TO EDUCATION, IF I'M WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT I BELIEVE AND JASON IS RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT HE BELIEVES, THE IDEA IS THAT I TAX CREDIT WITH A $25 MILLION CAP WOULD UNDERMINE PUBLIC EDUCATION IS DISINGENUOUS TO THE POINT OF LAUGHABILITY.

THE STATE, FEDERAL AND LOCAL ENTITIES SPENT MORE THAN $8 BILLION A YEAR ON EDUCATION.

$25MILLION THAT IS NOT PULLED FROM THAT EDUCATION FUND BUT IS GENERAL FUND DOLLARS IS IN THE FORM OF A TAX CREDIT IS LESS THAN .3% OF THAT BUDGET.

AND AGAIN IT'S -- >> .02% I BELIEVE IS THE NUMBER.

>> CORRECT.

SO IT HAS -- IT'S A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE.

IT DOESN'T COME DIRECTLY FROM ETHER TAXED OR UNTAXED, IS,NOT THEORETICAL SEEK DOLLARS OR THEORETICAL K-12 EDUCATION DOLLARS.

BY THAT LOGIC, ANY MONEY SPENT ON THE STATE POLICE IS TAKEN AWAY FROM K-12 EDUCATION.

ANY MONEY SPENT ON INFRASTRUCTURE IS TAKEN AWAY FROM K-12 EDUCATION.

HAVING TAX RATES LOWER THAN 100% TAKES AWAY FROM K-12 EDUCATION.

WHETHER MY BELIEFS ARE RIGHT OR JASON BELIEFS ARE RIGHT ON THIS QUESTION, IT IS NOT A QUESTION OF UNDERMINING PUBLIC EDUCATION.

IT'S ABOUT GIVING CHOICE AND OPPORTUNITY TO THE FAMILIES THAT DON'T CURRENTLY HAVE IT.

>> AND IT WILL BE A QUESTION BEFORE THE COURTS, I'M SURE, SINCE MANY SAY IT'S NOT CONSTITUTIONAL ON GROUNDS THAT IT VIOLATION SECTION 183 AND I BELIEVE 189, SECTION 183 IS ABOUT THE COMMON SCHOOLS CONCEPT.

189 IS ABOUT MONEY GOING TOWARD PAROCHIAL, RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS.

>> THIS IS A VOUCHER PROGRAM.

I MEAN, THE DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE IS LITERALLY GOING TO CUT CHECKS FOR $25 MILLION TO THESE ACCOUNT-GRANTING ORGANIZATIONS FROM THE TAX COFFERS OF THE STATE THAT THEY WILL THEN USE IN THESE PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

SO THIS IS A TRANSFER OF MONEY.

IT'S, AS I SAID, IT'S A STEP TOWARD WHAT THE EVENTUAL GOAL IS, WHICH IS TO PRIVATIZE OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS, AND IT'S A WRONG STEP TO GO DOWN.

>> I OTHER COMMENT ON THAT BEFORE I SEGUE BACK TOWN EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE ASHLI WATTS BECAUSE THIS QUESTION CAME IN FROM DREW SHY ROCK, OF LOUISVILLE.

HOW HAVE HAVE LAWMAKERS PASSED ANY BAWL BILLS THAT WILL IMPROVE THE TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES WITH THE UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE SYSTEM?

>> YES, THERE HAVE BEEN SOME BILLS TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR SYSTEM IS MORE UP TO DATE.

THERE'S ACTUALLY BEEN BILLS IN THE PAST U CAN YEARS THAT HAVE ALSO DONE THAT.

SO THAT OBVIOUSLY HAS BEEN A HUGE ISSUE IN THE LAST YEAR.

WE KNOW HOW MANY OF STILL BACKLOGGED HOW MANY CASES P OF UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE THAT KENTUCKIANS ARE STILL WAITING ON THIS.

THEY HAVE NOT RECEIVED THEIR CHECK YET.

OBVIOUSLY THE SYSTEM HAS NOT SET UP FOR TIN FLUX OF PEOPLE IN THE LAST YEAR THAT HAD HAD TO WORK WITH, BUT THERE HAVE BEEN SOME NEEDED IMPROVEMENTS ON THAT WITH FUNDING.

THERE HAVE BEEN SOME OTHER BILLS THAT HAVE BEEN PASSED THAT MAKE SURE THAT THE SCHEDULE, SO THIS GETS REALLY TECHNICAL, BUT THAT THE SCHEDULE DOESN'T GO FROM A TO E AND PUT THAT EXTRA THANK ON EMPLOYERS THIS YEAR AS WELL.

THAT'S ONE THING I THINK WE'RE WAITING ON THE TREASURY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN DO MAKE SURE WE CAN PULL DOWN THAT FEDERAL MONEY.

SO THERE'S BEEN SEVERAL UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE BILLS, ONE, PARTICULARLY ONE THAT SAYS THAT BASICALLY YOU WILL NOT HAVE TO PAY BACK THE STATE IF YOU WERE GIVEN UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE AND MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY THAT BACK.

OVERPAYMENT.

I THINK THAT WAS SENATE BILL 7 I BELIEVE.

SO THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE BILLS THAT HAVE PASSED ON BROAD BIPARTISAN SUPPORT.

I THINK WE ALL KNOW THAT WE REALLY KIND OF NEED THE WORK ACROSS THE AISLE TO MAKE SURE THESE PROBLEMS GET FIXED.

>> SO WHAT ABOUT REOPENING SOME OF THE THESE REGIONAL UNEMPLOYMENT OFFICES?

I THINK THERE WERE 50 SOMETHING.

I SHOULD KNOW THIS BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT MADE IT ALL THE WAY THROUGH.

>> IT MOVED THROUGH A I.

COMMITTEE TONIGHT TO REOPEN SOME OF THE OFFICES, I THINK ABOUT 12.

>> AND IS A UNDERSTOOD IT IF CONES WERE AS LONG AS THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS 5% OR ABOVE.

ONCE IT DROPPED BELOW THAT, THE LABOR CABINET COULD CLOSE GILBERT THE LABOR CABINET WAS GOING TO HAVE TO FIND THE MONEY IN ORDER TO OPERATE THESE.

IT WASN'T GOING TO BE A SEPARATE LINE I'M BUDGET.

>> CORRECT.

ONE OTHER THING WERE UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE IS THAT WE HAVE NOT YET HERE IN KENTUCKY TURNED BACK ON OUR SURGE SEARCHING FOR WORK REQUIREMENT.

BEFORE THE PANDEMIC IF YOU WERE TO FILE UNEMPLOYMENT, YOU BASICALLY HAD TO BE LOOKING FOR WORK AND TO REPORT THAT.

WELL, WE ARE NOW OVER A YEAR AFTER THE PANDEMIC AND WE ARE ONE OF THE STATES THAT HAS NOT TURNED THAT BACK ON YET SO YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SEARCH FOR WORK IF YOU'RE DRAWING UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE.

WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF OPEN JOBS LEER IN KENTUCKY AND BUSINESSES ARE STARTING OBVIOUSLY TO REOPEN.

THERE ARE HUGE STAFFING NEEDS ACROSS THE STATE.

AND SO WE'RE TALKING VERY CLOSELY WITH THE LEGISLATURE AND THE ADMINISTRATION HAD TO MAKE SURE THAT GETS TURNED ON IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS TO GET KENTUCKIANS BACK TO WORK AND HOPEFULLY RETURN LIFE TO NORMAL, GET PEOPLE BACK TO WORK AND GET THOSE JOBS REFILLED BECAUSE EMPLOYERS ARE REALLY STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW LOOKING SOME OF THESE POSITIONS.

>> TERRY BROOKS, I THINK YOU MAY HAVE WANTED TO COMMENT ON OUR PIECE OF TOPIC WHICH WAS THE STANDARD A. SCARP TAX YESTERDAY SO I'LL GIVE YOU A MINUTE TO TELL US WHAT YOU WERE THINKING.

>> RENEE, AS SOMEBODY WHO SPENT 30 YEARS AS A PUBLIC SCHOOL ADMINISTRATOR, I HAVE TO TELL YOU I DON'T KNOW THE IMPACT, AND I DON'T THINK ANYBODY KNOWS THE IMPACT.

I COULD ENVISION THAT TAKING OFF AS JASON SUGGESTS AND BEING A A BRIDGE FOR FOES WHO DON'T NEED THAT KIND OF HELP TO GET SPECIALIZED EDUCATION.

BY THE SAME TORTURING THERE ARE EXAMPLES NATIONALLY WHERE THOSE KINDS OF PROGRAMS WERE SIGNIFICANT HELPS TO CHILDREN WITH SEVERE HANDICAPS.

SOME OF THOSE CHILDREN THROUGH FEDERAL SPECIAL EDUCATION LEGISLATION ALREADY, THEIR PUBLIC SCHOOL STUDENTS WHO ALREADY ATTEND PRIVATE SCHOOLS BECAUSE OF HANDICAPPED CONDITIONS.

I THINK THERE ARE A NUMBER OF STEPS WE HAVE TEAK.

WE HAVE TO COLLECT -- WE HAVE TO BE REALLY VERY FOCUSED ON COLLECTING DEMOGRAPHIC DATA TO SEE WHO IS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THIS.

PRIORITY HAS TO BE GIVEN TO CHILDREN WITH SPECIAL NEEDS.

AND I PERSONALLY THINK THAT ANY STUDENT WHO TAKES ADVANTAGE OF THIS NEEDS TO GO AHEAD AND GO THROUGH THE STATE ACCOUNTABILITY SYSTEM, SO WE HAVE PARALLEL PERFORMANCE COMPARISONS.

I THINK THAT CONCERN IS GENUINE, BUT THERE ARE NATIONAL LESSONS WHERE, AGAIN, SOME SEVERELY HANDICAPPED KIDS HAVE GOTTEN SERVICES THAT THEY WOULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN OTHERWISE.

SO I UNDERSTAND BOTH SIDES OF THAT.

I'M SOMEBODY WHO WANTS TO SEE THE PROOF IN THE PUDDING.

LET'S MAKE SURE WE REALLY INVESTIGATE WHAT'S GOING ON AND THEN COME BACK AND REVISIT, MAKE A DETERMINATION OF WHERE WE GO ON THIS.

>> SO WITH A MINUTE LEFT, GOSH, WHAT KIND OF QUESTION DO YOU ASK WITH A MINUTE?

[LAUGHTER] WE'VE GOT LOTS TO WATCH TONIGHT.

THEY VERY WELL, I KNOW THAT THE SENATE HAD RESUMED BY THE TIME THAT WE HAD GONE ON AIR, MAYBE THE HOUSE HAS AS WELL, AND SO WE'LL HAVE A REPORT TONIGHT AT 11:00 EASTERN-TIME, CASEY PARKER-BELL.

IT'S ACTUALLY 11:30 WILL BE ON TONIGHT TO GIVE YOU A RECAP OF WHAT'S HAPPENING.

TOMORROW NIGHT I'LL BE 200 GIVE THE VERY LAST DAY, SIGN DIE, WHICH WE ALL CELEBRATE, AND SO WE'RE GOING LIVE AT THERE FOR TONIGHT.

I APPRECIATE YOU ALL SO VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE WITH YOU NEXT MONDAY FOR SPECIAL PBS PROGRAMMING BUT WHEN WE COME BACK ON APRIL 12th I THINK WE'LL HAVE SOME LEGISLATIVE LEADERS HERE TO PARSE OUT THE, REALLY THE VERY END OF KYGA 21.

YOU DO NOT WANT TO MISS THAT IN 2 TWO WEEKS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

TUNE IN TONIGHT AT 11:30 FOR LEGISLATIVE UNDATE AND AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.

YOU TAKE GOOD, AND I I'LL SEE YOU VERY, VERY SOON.