[Female VO] This program is brought to you by the generous support of the Secular Society.

Advancing the interests of women in the arts in Virginia and beyond.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Everyday (everyday), everyday (everyday), everyday ♪ ♪ Everyday I write the book ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ -Welcome.

I'm Rose Martin.

And we are Write Around The Corner in Blue Ridge, Virginia with Brook Allen.

Did you know that an early American love story started right here, Julia Hancock and William Clark?

Yes, from that Lewis and Clark, it's here in Botetourt County, that Brook's book, West Of Santillane starts it all.

Hi, Brook, welcome to Write Around The Corner.

-Oh, I'm so happy to be here, Rose.

Thank you so much for having me.

-And it's nice that you invited us here to your beautiful home.

-Yeah, my beautiful home.

We could have done it at my school, Greenfield Elementary.

So let's give a shout out to all the kids -at Greenfield Elementary.

-Oh, we have to.

-[Rose] And your amazing principal.

-Yeah, Jen Hawks and Christy Martin, thank you so much for letting me come here today to all my friends at Greenfield, so.

-Wonderful, and so I don't know if your friends at Greenfield know, but you're sitting in front of a pretty important place in your life when it comes to writing.

-It is a very important place, a treasured place.

This is my happy place where I do all of my writing.

I absolutely love, this is a desk that actually came from Botetourt County.

It dates to about 1820 and I absolutely love it.

It has the original felt, and it was apparently used by a barrister, a lawyer of some sort back in those days.

So delighted to have it.

-It's wonderful that it has a legacy.

So you love history and you love old things.

But before I go there, I'm struck by this blue ribbon behind you.

What's that for?

-That was for my debut novel, Antonius Son Of Rome, the first in a trilogy I wrote on The Life Of Mark Antony.

And it was from the Chanticleer International Book Awards.

And that was a big surprise one June when I actually won first place, so.

-Congratulations.

-Thank you.

-And it's a nice reminder right there when you write, right?

-Oh, yeah, absolutely.

I keep several of those little mementos around my desk so that I'm really when having a bad writing day, I can look at those and remind myself breathe, you can get through this, you know.

-Right, because the words are going to come and it's going to be an amazing story.

So it was interesting, I saw that you had a very interesting business card.

So does it still say, Brook Allen, history made alive?

-It does, and I think that's become my little motto now.

Because history made alive to me, I tell my students, even though I teach music, I tell them, history is never boring because history wasn't boring.

You know, when it was being made, when Washington crossed the Delaware, it was not a boring night.

When Caesar crossed the Rubicon, it was not boring for anybody.

And, you know, I think it's important that we take history out of the austere classroom lecture time, and we create these stories that will give people a hunger for it.

I see historical fiction as an open--a gate to the interest and love of history, so.

-Well, and it's true because those stories are captivating and in and of themselves with the characters that were there, you can grasp on to one of those things and share an important part in history, or make up some parts and make it kind of interesting -and fun for people.

-Exactly.

-So you're a music teacher now.

-I am.

-And you have a background in music and voice and how--tell me, explain to me how the history, love of history and writing matches what you're doing now with music.

-It's hard to believe, yeah.

My--I actually had a love of writing before I'd ever become a music teacher, and I always wanted to write, and I wanted to be a novelist, and I wanted to share my love of literature somehow.

And it just turned out that I needed a job.

I was still single, and my dad sat me down one day and said, "You know, you need to find a job where you can earn an income and create money for yourself so that you can be, you know, successful.

And so I did become a music educator.

I've enjoyed most of it.

I have my days, but I am retiring at the end of this year after 36 years of music education, I am moving on, and I'll be able to be a writer full time which excites me to death.

-Congratulations.

I read about that you said I just can't wait till you can retire, but that you would stay up till two o'clock in the morning just reading and writing.

-Yeah, that's me.

I am a night person, totally, and I just love writing.

I love reading.

And believe it or not, the research element of putting a story together is probably my favorite part of the whole thing.

-Well, you love research, so and love history.

So that makes sense.

How do you make sure that you don't get down into the weeds too much and go on another path -Squirrel?

-when you're trying to focus.

-Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Yeah.

-Squirrel.

-Oh, that looks funny.

-It happens all the time, you know, online and other authors talk to me, we laugh about it, because, you know, you go down a rabbit hole and you find something else interesting.

And, you know, it's so funny being an author, because, you know, you can post on Facebook sometime, oh, you know, I just researched different kinds of daggers and how would it-- would feel to be stabbed by one, you know, gross, but, you know, that's the kind of stuff we often have to research.

We have to explore.

You know, what kind of wounds, you know, did Mark Antony have when he committed suicide, or whatever.

And, you know, it makes the whole process so fascinating, to talk to doctors, to talk to archeologists, to talk to historians, to visit, you know, a beautiful facility in St. Louis where the entire Clark family collection is, and that's what I got to do, you know, with my most recent work, West Of Santillane -And that was so interesting to me to read that you were actually there with the journals and with the letters and be able to touch them.

And had to, like, be an aha moment to say, "Wow, I'm researching this.

I'm writing about this, and now I'm touching it."

-How do you spell terrified?

-[Rose] Right?

I was so terrified.

I--you know, I asked, I said, "Do I need to wear gloves?"

You know, do I need, you know, the only thing we weren't allowed to do is bring in pens.

We had pencils, and I could use pencils as much as I wanted to.

I could, you know, obviously not write on those documents.

But literally, I held a folded manuscript in my hand that Meriwether Lewis.

It was a letter from Lewis to Clark when he was in Fincastle, courting Julia.

I held it in my hand, and not only was the ink and everything just perfectly legible, I looked and there was this big red blob of wax from when Meriwether Lewis sealed, folded, sealed the envelope, and then pressed his signet ring into the wax to send it to his partner.

-[Rose] Wow.

One moment.

-It was--yeah, and it was during the end of COVID too, so I still had to wear a mask, you know, and that's the main reason actually, Rose, that I started writing about Santillane because I needed an armchair project because of the pandemic.

And I thought, "What am I going to do?

What am I going to do?

I can't, like, take off to Italy anymore."

So I chose something local.

And boy, I'm so glad I did.

-We are too, because it was fascinating learning about the history of the area that, quite frankly, I didn't really know it all existed.

And Carol and I were reading the book and talking about it, and, you know, even the one point in time about the Catawba tree, right?

And so knowing that she visits it and she names the branches.

Well, Carol had--turns out her grandmother had a tree, similar tree, but they-- it had seed pods on it.

So she called it a cigar tree or a bean tree.

-They have many different names, I believe.

Yeah.

I remember being on the property and walking around with the current owner, Angela, and she pointed out this tree, and I said, "That tree is incredible".

And I thought I've got to somehow incorporate that into my story.

That has got to have its own character.

And I think I was successful.

-Oh, you were.

We loved it.

Yeah.

-So the tree makes a very, very important entrance into the story, and kind of becomes Julia's happy place.

It's where she finds solace.

It's where she finds herself, you know.

-Well, and you had mentioned Santillane, it's such a landmark and a stopping place for people all over Fincastle.

It's nice to know the history and that these real explorers and had a part in our history and their love story was right here -where we started.

-Exactly.

And, you know, the tail end of the story, where I speak very clearly about the Lewis and Clark journal editing and what went on at Santillane, that was all true.

And that's a part of the whole process.

I think we think of Santillane as being, "Oh, it's where Julia and William Clark were married," you know, and all this.

But my goodness, think about the treasure we have in the Lewis and Clark journals, that began at Santillane.

And there, it's where Nicholas Biddle came, and he spent hours upon hours with William Clark.

And Julia had to be around, you know.

So, you know, I kind of interspersed her into the story in that, but, you know, I think it's important that we keep in mind that the journals started at Santillane there too.

-Well, what was interesting about that was William had very interesting grammar and spelling, and he wasn't really confident in that.

So, you know, he knew what he was writing, but he was protective of those journals.

-I'm laughing because-- -Okay.

because I bought a shirt this summer out in Great Falls Montana, and it has a picture of a giant mosquito and it says, "The 19 spellings that William Clark used -for the word mosquito -Yeah.

-in his journal."

-Right.

And 19 different spellings, it was before, it was just like a decade or less before the first Webster's Dictionary came out here in the US.

So yeah, they're spelling-- even Lewis's not as much as Clark's, but it's all over the place, and it's very amusing.

It's not an easy read, if you've ever not read the journals and you plan to, just know that it's going to be an experience more than it is going to be enjoyable.

But I think it's such important reading for every American, I really do.

-But even opening those when you had a chance to see that and, you know, the just history coming alive, and then us living in it.

So, you know, the whole idea that there was Santillane but there's another house in our area.

What's that house?

-Fotheringay, yes.

Yes.

-[Rose] In Elliston.

And that's where, unfortunately, Julia died -at an early age.

-[Rose] Right.

But yeah, that was owned by her father.

And the whole family moved there after, I guess it was around 1811 when there was a fire.

It must have been significant enough, George Hancock records that it occurred in the roof of Santillane.

And it must have been significant enough for them to have to move, because that's where they went.

They went to Fotheringay in Elliston, and the House still stands.

It looks like such a beautiful property.

I haven't been, I want to.

I'll bet it's similar to Santillane.

That's my gut feeling.

You know, that it's going to be based on the same design, Federalist design, you know, the drawing room, the library, the family dining space, and then the upper level being kind of a more intimate space for them to spend time together with special friends and family as well.

-What were some pieces of the history that you really wanted to put in the book?

But you're like, "Oh, either I need to leave this on the side or I can revisit it again later."

Are there some interesting trivia pieces of the history of the area?

-Sacagawea.

Well, she wasn't from the area, but I still wanted to add her into the Missouri portion.

But actually, she and her family came to St. Louis and met up with William Clark and his family in 1811, 1810 to 1811 after my story ends.

And so I wasn't able to really use her.

But oh my gosh, yeah, there are so many other people.

There was the tailor in Fincastle whose cabin still stands, the early cabin, and I do mention him.

I wasn't able to really interject him into the story quite as much as I kind of wished I could have.

But I did try to mention a lot of the old timers from Fincastle.

You know, the Breckenridge family featured prominently, especially towards the beginning of the novel.

And, you know, Ann Breckenridge's gown that she wore to the White House at one point resides at Williamsburg in their Textile Collection.

And I have a wonderful book up here in my library that I still haven't taken downstairs.

And it's about clothing of the period.

-Which was beautiful and fascinating.

Talk about clothing as we pivot to the book, West Of Santillane.

It opens with a young Julia and her cousin dressed in very unusual clothes, and take us away.

-Well, you know, the elephant in the room when you're writing in this period has to be enslavement.

Slavery was a very prominent part of life, unfortunately, back in this period, and I have Julia and her cousin, Harriet, all riding a horse in little slave boy attire.

And they didn't want to get their own clothes soiled, so they snitched the clothes from their little slave boys off the line, and it puts the little boys in a very bad pinch.

So they don't think about that.

You know, they're young ladies, and they don't think about that being white girls, and they're riding off.

But later, Julia has a real come to Jesus moment about it, -and it impacts her in my story.

-Yeah.

And they were off on an adventure.

And so enter William Clark.

-Here he comes.

-Yeah.

-Yeah.

Along with his slave gentleman, York, that is he-- who has become so famous in the Lewis and Clark genre.

And Lewis--and apparently, William Clark was so taken with both girls and their predicament, their horse went cross this little streamlet.

And so he dismounted, grabbed the reins, pulled the horse across, and they made it to wherever they were going.

In my story, I think they're heading to Greenfield, which is consequently the name of the school where I work.

But at the time, in 1801, it was this phenomenal plantation, a planter's home, and also with connections to Smithfield at Virginia Tech.

The family actually had connections with them as well, so.

-Well, and you mentioned York and being an enslaved man, I didn't know until I was reading your book that, you know, they were actually childhood friends, and that York went out with William Clark.

But he wasn't treated the same as his other people.

-That's right.

And, you know, it probably he had more freedom when he was on the Corps of Discovery Expedition than he did when he returned, which is so tragic.

And, you know, I would imagine York having known William Clark all of their lives.

He probably expected perhaps, muscle will free me, you know.

-Yeah.

-And that didn't happen.

-Or he would get some land like others did.

-Exactly.

-And he didn't.

-No, he just got some old biscuit, you know, some food, a bag of food.

That's all he got.

And all of these other men were given plots of land and money, you know, as a reward, not York.

-And as much as William Clark was known for his map making and his skills with Indians, and his skills with, you know, being able to have his own internal GPS, which I always teach Carol about.

She has an internal GPS like that.

But he was cruel when it came to enslaved people, and yet, Julia had a soft spot and was really working behind the scenes.

-Yeah.

And, you know, I will confess, as an author that was a contrivement of mine, but I will say on this, on her behalf, we have no evidence whatsoever that I could find that she was ever cruel, that she ever raised a hand against a slave.

The only mention of a slave with Julia happens at the end of her life when she's telling one of her servants, "Please take care of my son.

He's a really good boy."

And there's another time, I--it just came to me where she does ride in a carriage, and she asks a enslaved individual, a woman, to ride with her.

Do we know if that was my character, Chloe?

We don't, but it's possible.

-And Chloe happens to be your favorite.

-She was my favorite character.

I love Julia to bits, but Chloe was absolutely my favorite character in the entire story.

What an incredible woman.

-How come?

-Well, she suffers a terrible loss, -doesn't she?

-Yes.

I'm sorry, I hate to ruin my plot, whole plot design, you know, in front of a camera, but she is a woman who endures incredible loss, and yet she keeps striving for the love of all mankind.

-Right.

And she's so strong.

She's there in every moment as your book twists and turns and takes us on this journey, Chloe is stable, and she's there.

And she's giving Julia the help and confidence that she needs.

And is there in times that Julia doesn't have anyone else.

And I'm thinking to one scene in the snow in particular, right?

-Yeah.

-So I find Chloe as, like the backbone, -as the person who's, -She is.

-you know, she's right there.

-Yeah.

-You know, she obviously was a mother.

She knew how lives could be touched by family, and she knew how lives could be touched by loss as a slave already.

You know, I think of the scene with Venus, when Venus is so badly beaten by Clark's-- I guess, not a friend, but, you know, a co-worker or somebody.

And I tell you what, I just-- the strength that some of these enslaved women had, I--it just blows my mind.

-[Rose] Yeah.

-And the positive, you know, positive outlook they had on life.

-And you wrote some really strong characters, and it's wonderful.

So we have Julia and William, and there's quite an age difference between them.

-Thought that.

-I believe she was 16 -and he was 37?

-Thirty-six, I think.

-Yeah.

So that was interesting.

-Yeah.

-So she's got like, this man she's marrying, and then she's got Meriwether Lewis over here on the side, who's kind of like her brother.

And so as they're making their way across, do you think she was naive as to what it was going to be -when they were traveling?

-I think she had to have had a certain naivety, but she was also stubborn.

She was strong willed, at least the character in my story that I designed.

-And I fell in love with that.

-I want to believe her that way.

-Yeah.

-You created her for me, and I'm going with that.

-I've got a young historian friend out in Montana who--she's the same way.

She says, "You know, I've read several Julia Hancocks now."

And she said, "I love yours, because she's strong, fierce woman."

And, you know, I--that's the way I had to make her.

What type of person would willingly go to the armpit of America that St. Louis was at the time and just willingly live there and be stranded and not know anybody, not know the culture, not understand French, not understand native dialects and just be surrounded by filth and foul language, and yet she bloomed.

She made it work.

-And she made a difference.

I mean, she's helping people along the way.

She's helping the enslaved people.

She becomes really someone very special to a few Native Americans inside of your story and their little family.

-Yeah.

-But then Meriwether was interesting to me, because not only did I not know what the mosquito thing could do about the effect on your brain and the effect on you.

It was interesting to hear or to read about their roles as Governor, Thomas Jefferson's impact on everything.

And by the way, the jewelry that he gave for the wedding, -absolutely fabulous.

-We'll be hearing more about that a while.

Yeah.

-Okay, so what--was that true about Meriwether Lewis and the mosquito, -and how they actually -Yeah.

-lost his mind?

-Yeah.

You know, I think when I first started researching it, I was-- I was floored.

How could malaria do that?

You know, I knew that it caused fever.

I didn't realize the plethora of different manifestations it could have in different people.

William Clark had malaria, okay.

They call it the Ague, you know, in my story, but William Clark had it, and apparently it caused him stomach issues.

But with Meriwether Lewis, it caused him to literally go out of his mind, and that's why I am a proponent of probably suicide being the nature of his death.

A lot of people are still trying to rake up the murder thing, the murder plot.

And I'm--after reading a particular account by a historian and whose brother is a doctor, and they kind of compiled their notes.

I was really, really drawn into the fact that malaria can have so many different, you know, onsets.

-Well, and you made me kind of worried when he took off on his own to go back and settle a few things that were happening in the story at the time -that he needed to figure out.

-Yeah.

-And then we have, you know, Julia, and we've got William, and we've got the children.

And so the story was amazing, and I learned so much, and there were great characters.

Would you be willing to read something for us?

-I would be delighted to do that.

And the part that I'm selecting is you had just mentioned Thomas Jefferson and the jewelry.

And so what I'm gonna do is I'm going to read a portion of that scene.

This is when she's about to marry William Clark.

And of course, he is coming all the way from St. Louis.

He's already started his position as head of Indian Affairs and as the Brigadier General of militia there, and that was an appointment from Thomas Jefferson.

So what I'm going to do is I'm going to start and this is when Julia is waiting anxiously for his arrival.

Christmas passed with no sign of Will, and for me, there was a saturating profusion of whens.

When would he arrive?

When would the wedding be?

When would we depart for St. Louis?

For nearly all of December, I listened for riders approaching the house.

Whenever I heard hoof beats, I ran to the window.

When that happened on a blustery, chilly late afternoon, I set master Shakespeare aside scrambling to the window and wiping frost from the pain-- not him, not yet.

Instead, it was an armed soldier with a padlocked saddle bag, making me wonder what sort of official business he had at Santillane.

By the time I reached the front door, he had dismounted and was busy unlocking the bag, drawing out a small parcel, neatly wrapped while I swung open the front door, Mama was calling for Meg to warm some tea on the stove for the traveler.

"Greetings, Miss," the young man said.

"I'm looking for Miss Julia Hancock."

My heart thudded.

"I'm Miss Hancock."

"Miss Hancock, I've ridden from Washington City to convey warmest regards from President Jefferson," he announced climbing the stairs.

"This here is a wedding gift from the president himself."

He presented the parcel, and I accepted.

Utterly astonished, I wandered into the library's privacy with it.

"Please," mama invited bustling to the entrance toward the soldier.

"It's freezing outside.

Do go round the side of the house to the kitchen.

We've warmed some tea for you.

And my woman, Meg will see that you're given a hot meal before you continue on."

"Many thanks, Ma'am, that's greatly appreciated."

Once she'd shut the door, Mama came up behind me where I was admiring the packaged gift.

"What is it?"

she asked insistently, peering over my shoulder.

"I don't know."

"Well, open it, child."

I peeled away the outer layer of wrapping carefully to find a smoothly sanded and polished flat, latched box of walnut with a crisp note of official presidential stationary attached.

"Oh, Julia, he's written you a private note."

Blinking at my own disbelief, I lifted the folded stationary feeling the raised print under my fingertips.

It was engraved with the presidential seal and Jefferson's name.

Beneath was his message.

The author of our Declaration of Independence had written me in his own bold script, "My dearest Miss Hancock, I'm sure there are hardly words to express the delight and happiness you must feel as you celebrate the advent of your marriage.

If William Clark has chosen you as his bride, then I can only assume what an upright and purposeful woman you must be.

Therefore, I beg you to accept this small gift representing the sentiments I hold, not only of your worthy person, but of Clark's esteemed service and character, all of which I hold dear.

May your days together be many and full of joy.

I am indeed in your service and in the service of our beloved country.

Thomas Jefferson, President of the United States."

"Oh, Julia, open it."

Mama fussed again in disbelief.

I set the note aside upon one of our library tables.

Using my finger, I slid the box's delicate brass latch up to the right.

The lid released, and I opened it the rest of the way gasping.

Beneath a protective flap of emerald satin was a magnificent brooch of Carnelian and gold, and on either side were displayed matching earrings.

They were exquisite, and not even my parents had ever gifted me with such extravagance.

I stared at Mama, shaking my head, stunned.

"How can I accept this?

It's far too rich for me."

Ever so gently, she placed her hands upon my face and whispered, "Daughter, you are marrying into greatness, and even our President recognizes that fact.

You will accept it with humility, with dignity, and wear these bobbles in St. Louis with pride, where people will be amazed that the president sends you such."

I was humbled.

What an incredible time this was.

A year full of newness, a year of firsts, like receiving gifts from the President.

-I could listen to you read the entire book.

Brook, thank you so much.

I've really enjoyed talking -to you about this.

-Thank you so much.

-My special thanks to Brook Allen for inviting us here to her home and introducing all of us to West of Santillane.

It's a fantastic love story of Lewis and Clark right here in our own area.

Please tell your friends about us and check out more of our interview online when we're going to be talking about this book and some of Brook's others.

I'm Rose Martin, and I'll see you next time Write Around The Corner.

♪ Everyday (everyday), everyday (everyday), everyday ♪ ♪ Everyday I write the book ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Everyday, everyday, Everyday I write the book ♪ ♪ Everyday, everyday, Everyday I write the book ♪ [Woman VO] This program is brought to you by the generous support of The Secular Society.

Advancing the interests of women in the arts in Virginia and beyond.