FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

Lou: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, BRACING FOR SOME OF THE HIGHEST FIRE DANGER CONDITIONS EVER RECORDED AS THE STATE'S LARGEST FIRE RAGES ON.

PLUS... Curley: THERE IS A LOT TO LEARN FROM INDIGENOUS PEOPLES' ABILITY TO RESPOND TO THESE CATASTROPHES.

Lou: A REALITY CHECK WHEN IT COMES TO OUR PERCEPTION OF HOW THE ENVIRONMENT IS CHANGING AROUND US.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM PRODUCER LOU DEVIZIO FILLING IN FOR GENE GRANT.

WE'LL GET TO THAT RECORD SETTING WILDFIRE IN JUST A MOMENT BUT WE ARE TRACKING SEVERAL OTHER STATE HEADLINES.

NEW MEXICO PUBLIC EDUCATION DEPARTMENT WANTS TO HEAR YOUR FEEDBACK ON ITS NEW DRAFT PLAN TO ADDRESS THE YAZZI MARTINEZ LAWSUIT.

THE JUDGE IN THE CASE FOUND THE STATE WAS FAILING ITS DUTY TO PROVIDE QUALITY EDUCATION FOR ALL STUDENTS, WITH SPECIFIC NATIVE AMERICANS, SPECIAL NEEDS STUDENTS AND ENGLISH LANGUAGE LEARNERS.

IN ABOUT TEN MINUTES OUR LINE OPINION PANEL REVIEWS PROPOSED CHANGES AND ANSWERS THE ALL IMPORTANT QUESTION, WILL THE PLAN WORK?

THE STATE'S BUDGET SURPLUS WILL BE HIGHER THAN EXPECTED ACCORDING NEW DATA FROM SANTA FE.

IN ABOUT 20 MINUTES THE WILL PANEL TALK THROUGH SOME OF THE NEW SPENDING POSSIBILITIES BUT FOR NOW, BACK TO THE LARGEST WILDFIRE IN STATE HISTORY.

THE HERMIT'S PEAK CALF CANYON FIRE HAS BURNED MORE THAN 300,000 ACRES AND AS OF THURSDAY, IT IS LESS THAN 40% CONTAINED.

TRACKING AND MAPPING FIRE GROWTH OVER SUCH A LARGE AREA IS DIFFICULT BUT ALSO VITALLY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND HOW THESE FIRES MOVE.

ENVIRONMENT REPORTER LAURA PASKUS SPOKE WITH ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO DIGS THROUGH THAT DATA EACH DAY TO FIND OUT HOW IT IS DONE.

Laura: HIGH STEVE BASSET, THANKS FOR JOINING ME TODAY.

Bassett: GREAT TO BE HERE.

Laura: YOU HAVE BEEN MAPPING HERMIT'S PEAK AND CALF CANYON FIRE.

I HAVE BEEN SEEING YOUR MAPS EVERY DAY.

I WAS WONDERING IF WE COULD START WITH WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR DATA AND HOW ARE YOU PUTTING THESE TOGETHER.

Bassett: I HAVE BEEN MAPS USING DATA PROVIDED BY THE U.S. FOREST SERVICE.

THE DAILY PROGRESSION MAPS THAT I HAVE BEEN POSTING ONLINE INCORPORATE INFRARED FLIGHT DATA SO EACH EVENING THE FOREST SERVICE OR ITS CONTRACTORS FLY OVER THE FIRES AND THE HOT SPOTS AND PERIMETER OF THE FIRE IS EASILY MAPPABLE FROM THAT HEAT DATA.

AND, SO, THEY UPLOAD IT TO A SERVER, AND IT TYPICALLY SITS THERE UNTIL A PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER HAS TIME TO DEVELOP IT INTO A FORMAT THAT WORKS FOR THE PUBLIC.

AND WITH THE SKILLS THAT I HAVE AND KIND OF DESPERATION I WAS FEELING I WENT OUT AND GRABBED THAT DATA AND DID SOMETHING WITH IT TO GET SOME MORE INFORMATION OUT IN THE PUBLIC HANDS AND SHOWING THIS DAILY PROGRESSION, DAILY GROWTH, COMMUNICATES A LOT OF THE INFORMATION THAT PEOPLE NEED WHEN THEY ARE THINKING ABOUT THESE FIRES.

IS MY WATERSHED BURNING?

IS MY COMMUNITY BURNING?

WHERE IS THE FIRE HEADED?

WHAT ARE THE FUELS IN FRONT OF IT.

AND TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THAT MAP, USING THAT AUTHORITATIVE DATA HAS JUST HELPED ME FEEL LESS HELPLESS AND FEEL LIKE I AM HELPING DURING THIS CATASTROPHE.

Laura: I HAVE REALLY APPRECIATED LOOKING AT YOUR MAPS EVERY MORNING.

LIKE YOU SAID, YOU'RE SHOWING HOW THE FIRE IS MOVING, WHERE IT IS MOVING, AND THE THING THAT I HAVE REALLY APPRECIATED IS YOU LAY OUT THOSE NUMBERS EVERY MORNING OF HOW MUCH THE FIRE GREW THE PREVIOUS DAY.

I KNOW THE HERMIT'S PEAK CALF CANYON FIRE NOW HAS BEEN BURNING SINCE APRIL.

IT IS BIG, IT IS COMPLEX BUT I AM CURIOUS IF THERE ARE A FEW THINGS MAYBE WITHIN THE PAST WEEK THAT HAVE REALLY JUMPED OUT AT YOU ABOUT ITS PROGRESS OR ITS BEHAVIOR?

Bassett: FIRST I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE TREMENDOUS JOB THAT THE INCIDENT COMMAND TEAM AND ALL THE FIREFIGHTERS HAVE -- ALL THE EFFORTS THEY HAVE PUT IN TO SHAPE THE WAY THIS FIRE SPREADS AND PROTECTING OUR COMMUNITIES AND WATERSHEDS.

THE MAPPING IS KIND OF INCIDENTAL TO THAT BUT I AM GLAD TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THAT.

HATS OFF TO THOSE FOLKS AND THOSE COMMUNITIES.

THE BIGGEST PATTERNS THAT I HAVE SEEN IN THESE DATA LATELY HAVE BEEN FIRE SPREADING MORE TO THE WEST INTO THE PECOS WILDERNESS BUT ALSO TO THE NORTH, JUST THE TRENDS IN THE WIND PATTERNS HAVE BEEN RELATIVELY ERRATIC THAT WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THIS FIRE IS GOING TO BURN.

ITS PERIMETER IS HUGE SO ANYWHERE THERE IS ACTIVE BURNING WITHIN THAT PERIMETER HAS THE POTENTIAL TO SPREAD USUALLY PUSHED BY THE WIND.

I'LL SHARE THE MAP FROM THIS MORNING.

YESTERDAY'S GROWTH IS THE DARKEST RED AND IT WAS A REALLY GREAT DAY RELATIVE TO THE PRECEDING WEEKS, JUST OVER 1600 ACRES BURNED YESTERDAY.

SO, THE INCREASED HUMIDITY HELPED WITH THAT.

YOU CAN SEE A DASHED LINE REPRESENTING THE BOUNDARY OF THE PECOS WILDERNESS.

IT IS STARTING TO GET A FOOTHOLD OVER THERE.

LOTS OF CONTINUOUS FUELS FOR IT TO BURN THROUGH, BUT THIS GROWTH TO THE NORTHWEST HAS BEEN KIND OF THE MOST EXTREME GROWTH RECENTLY.

SOME OF THESE LARGER AREAS, FROM PAST WIND EVENTS, PAST EXTREME RED FLAG DAYS, WERE REALLY SHOCKING, THE SCALE OF THE FIRE SPREAD WITHIN A DAY.

THESE DARKER GRAYS ARE WHERE THE FIRE WAS ALMOST TWO WEEKS -- OVER TWO WEEKS AGO AS IT MADE SOME BIG RUNS TOWARDS THESE COMMUNITIES, THROUGH AND TOWARDS THESE COMMUNITIES.

SO, WE HAVE SEEN MODERATION OF FIRE BEHAVIOR SINCE THEN BUT STILL A LOT OF POTENTIAL OUT THERE FOR GROWTH.

Laura: THERE WAS ONE DAY LAST WEEK, I RECALL YOU POSTING ONE OF THE MAPS AND THE PREVIOUS DAY THERE HAD BEEN LIKE 30,000 ACRES OF GROWTH.

I MEAN THAT JUST SEEMS DEVASTATING AND REMARKABLE.

SO, WHEN WE LOOK AT A FIRE PERIMETER MAP LIKE THAT, I LIKE YOUR MAPS BECAUSE THEY KIND OF SHOW THE CHANGES OVER TIME, BUT WHEN WE LOOK AT A MAP LIKE THAT, DOES THAT MEAN THAT THERE IS FIRE BURNING OR THAT A FIRE HAS BURNED WITHIN THAT ENTIRE PERIMETER OR ARE THERE POCKETS WITHIN THERE THAT MAYBE HAVEN'T BURNED OR HAVE BEEN BURNED PAST?

Bassett: SO, WITHIN A PERIMETER LIKE THAT, THERE WILL BE VARYING LEVELS OF FIRE INTENSITY AND BURN SEVERITY.

I AM GOING TO SHARE A SATELLITE IMAGE.

THIS IS A FALSE COLOR IMAGERY OF THE CALF CANYON FIRE FROM MAY 13 AND SOME OF THE NOTABLE ELEMENTS OF THE FLAME IN FRONT SHOWING UP IN ORANGE, THE BRIGHTEST ORANGE COLORS, THE SMOKE VISIBLE.

YOU CAN SEE THE BURNED, DARKEST BURNED AREAS IN PURPLE.

THEY WOULD SHOW UP BLACK IF WE WERE UP IN A SATELLITE LOOKING DOWN, BUT WITH THE FALSE COLOR, DIFFERENT BANDS THAT WE CAN'T SEE INFRARED MADE VISIBLE, THEY SHOW UP AS THIS DEEP PURPLE.

YOU CAN SEE A MOSAIC OF BURN SEVERITIES IN SOME PARTS OF THE FIRE BUT OTHER AREAS IT IS ALL PURPLE AND THOSE ARE THE PLACES WHERE TREE MORTALITY IS GOING TO BE VERY HIGH.

ON A HUGE MAP LIKE THIS OF THIS HUGE FIRE, THOSE PATCHES LOOK RELATIVELY SMALL BUT SOME OF THEM ARE MILES ACROSS IN ALL DIRECTIONS.

MORE RECENTLY WE HAVE BEEN SEEING HIGH SEVERITY FIRE JUST ABOUT EVERYWHERE, NO LOW SEVERITY FIRE.

I IMAGINE IT IS STILL HAPPENING OUT ON THE GROUNDS.

WE ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO DOING SOME ADDITIONAL ANALYSIS TO LOOK AT THE EFFECTS OF FOREST RESTORATION TREATMENTS AND THE KIND OF PATTERNS WITHIN THAT BURN SEVERITY.

Laura: LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT.

WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT FOREST TREATMENTS IN THE AREA THAT HAS ALREADY BURNED OR THE AREAS WHERE IT IS MOVING?

DO WE HAVE A SENSE OF WHAT IS ON THE GROUND THERE?

Bassett: I DON'T HAVE A MAP OF THOSE TREATMENTS BUT THERE IS A GREAT MAP PRODUCED BY FOLKS AT HIGHLANDS UNIVERSITY.

THEY HAVE AN INTERACTIVE MAP VIEWER.

THE NEW MEXICO FOREST AND WATERSHED RESTORATION INSTITUTE HAS PRODUCED A MAP THAT SHOWS THE OVERLAY OF THE CURRENT FIRE PERIMETER AND ALL THE TREATMENTS THAT HAVE HAPPENED TO DATE.

THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF THEM BUT PROBABLY NOT TO A DEGREE WHERE IT ALTERED THE TRAJECTORY OF THE FIRE ON THE LANDSCAPE SCALE, MAYBE LOCALLY PROTECTED RESOURCES AND RESERVED SOME OF THE HABITAT AND ECOSYSTEM, HELPED WITH THOSE AREAS.

Laura: AS YOU HAVE BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS AND, OF COURSE, THIS WEEK, THIS PARTICULAR FIRE, THE HERMIT'S PEAK CALF CANYON FIRE SURPASSED THE WHITEWATER BALDY FIRE IN SIZE.

ARE THERE PARTICULAR -- AS YOU HAVE BEEN WATCHING AND MAPPING, ARE THERE CERTAIN THINGS THAT HAVE SURPRISED YOU OR IS THIS KIND OF ACTING LIKE A FIRE WOULD ACT IN OUR CLIMATE CHANGED WORLD?

Bassett: YEAH.

UNFORTUNATELY, I HAVEN'T BEEN SURPRISED.

AS WE ARE LOOKING AT THE EXTENT OF THE DRYING AND THE WIND, THIS IS THE TYPE OF FIRE THAT HAPPENS UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS.

THE CONTINUITY OF FUELS, ONCE A FIRE STARTS THERE IS VERY LITTLE STOPPING IT IN THIS LANDSCAPE.

I HAVE GOT A CONTEXT MAP HERE THAT JUST SHOWS, IT IS CONTINUOUS FOREST VIRTUALLY ALL THE WAY TO COLORADO AND BEYOND WHERE WE ARE SEEING THE THREE ACTIVE FIRES IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO, CERRO PELADO, CALF CANYON HERMIT'S PEAK AND COOKS PEAK.

THERE IS VERY LITTLE -- THERE IS A FEW BURN SCARS.

SOME FIRES CERTAINLY OFFER SOME FUEL ALTERATION BUT IT IS AN OLD ENOUGH FIRE SCARS THAT THE FIRE IS BURNING THROUGH IT.

THERE HAS BEEN A FEW FIRES NORTH OF THE CURRENT FIRE PERIMETER BUT VERY CONTINUOUS FUELS OVER A LARGE AREA, VERY LITTLE TO BREAK UP THE SPREAD OF FIRE.

Laura: WELL, THANK YOU, STEVE, FOR JOINING ME.

I APPRECIATE YOUR MAPS WHICH, LIKE YOU MENTIONED, ARE COMING FROM THE OFFICIAL SOURCES OF DATA BUT YOU'RE PUTTING THEM UP THERE IN REALLY HELPFUL WAYS, SO THANK YOU.

Bassett: THANK YOU, LAURA.

Kevin: THANK YOU LAURA FOR THAT FASCINATING CONVERSATION.

WE'LL BRING OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS IN ON THE FIRE DISCUSSION IN THE SECOND HALF OF OUR SHOW.

BUT FOR NOW WE ARE GOING TO TACKLE ANOTHER STATE ISSUE, EDUCATION.

LET'S START BY INTRODUCING THIS WEEK'S VIRTUAL LINE PANEL.

FIRST OFF, WANT TO LET YOU KNOW, I AM NOT GENE GRANT, IN FACT.

EXECUTIVE PRODUCER KEVIN MCDONALD FILLING IN FOR HIM AGAIN THIS WEEK AS HE LOOKS TO BOUNCE BACK FROM ILLNESS.

WE ARE GLAD TO HAVE ATTORNEY LAURA SANCHEZ BACK WITH US.

SHE IS ONE OF THE REGULARS.

ALSO ANOTHER REGULAR, MERRITT ALLEN FROM VOX OPTIMA PUBLIC RELATIONS AND WELCOME BACK TO DAN BOYD, CAPITOL BUREAU CHIEF AT ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL.

AND WE WANT TO START TODAY WITH A LOOK AT THE NEW DRAFT PLAN TO ADDRESS THE YAZZI MARTINEZ LAWSUIT.

THAT IS 2018 COURT RULING THAT FOUND THE STATE HAS FAILED TO PROPERLY EDUCATE MORE THAN 2/3 OF K THROUGH 12 STUDENTS, SPECIFICALLY ENGLISH LANGUAGE LEARNERS, NATIVE AMERICANS AND SPECIAL NEEDS STUDENTS.

THE LONG AWAITED PLAN RELEASED LAST WEEK AIMS TO ADDRESS THOSE SHORTCOMINGS, SETTING GOALS FOR GRADUATION RATES ALONG WITH MATH AND READING PROFICIENCY, AMONG OTHER THINGS.

AND WANT TO START OUT, LAURA, WITH YOU.

ARE THESE GOALS AMBITIOUS ENOUGH ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THE STATE'S PLAN WAS RELEASED YEARS AFTER IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE COMPLETED?

Laura: THANKS FOR THAT QUESTION, KEVIN.

AND I THINK -- OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A LOT PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO CRITICIZE THE TIMING OF WHEN THIS WAS RELEASED.

THERE WAS INITIALLY SUPPOSED TO BE A RELEASE THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN DURING THE SESSION, OR A LITTLE BIT PRIOR TO THE SESSION IS MY UNDERSTANDING.

Kevin: DECEMBER, I BELIEVE.

Laura: FOR SURE, THERE IS DEFINITELY CRITICS OUT THERE ABOUT THE RELEASE OF THIS.

ONE THING WE CAN SEE IS THAT LIKE IT OR NOT THE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT TOOK ITS TIME AND SECRETARY TOOK ITS TIME TO LOOK VERY SPECIFICALLY AT THESE DIFFERENT SEGMENTS OF OUR MOST VULNERABLE STUDENTS TO MAKE SURE THERE WAS ADDITIONAL RESOURCES PUT INTO THE SYSTEM FOR THEM AT A TIME THAT WE HAVE BUDGET SURPLUSES AND WE ARE ABLE TO ACTUALLY INCREASE TEACHER PAY AS A STATE AND WE ARE ACTUALLY ABLE TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL RESOURCES.

I AM GLAD TO SEE THEY DID FOCUS IN MORE SPECIFICALLY INTO THOSE VULNERABLE POPULATIONS.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS OF GRADUATION RATES IN PARTICULAR, YOU CAN SEE A HUGE DROPOFF FROM THOSE IN THE POPULATION BEING NATIVE AMERICAN, STUDENTS OF COLOR, LOW INCOME, BUT IN PARTICULAR ALSO SPECIAL EDUCATION HAS A HUGE DROPOFF.

THE OTHERS ARE IN THE 70%.

SPECIAL EDUCATION DROPS DOWN TO 68% LEVEL IN TERMS OF GRADUATION RATES.

AND IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO PUT MONEY AND RESOURCES BACK INTO THAT SEGMENT OF THE POPULATION.

I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SO THE PLAINTIFFS CONTINUE TO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT HOW THIS IS GOING TO PLAY OUT, WHAT KIND OF PLAN IMPLEMENTATION WISE THERE WILL BE AND WHAT KIND OF OVERSIGHT THERE WILL BE.

BUT I THINK THIS IS A GOOD START FOR THEM AND AN IMPORTANT ONE TO HIT THE GROUND RUNNING WITH.

Kevin: TO BUILD OFF WHAT YOU SAID AMONG THE OVERALL GOALS, 15% INCREASE IN GRADUATION RATES.

WITHIN THAT, AS YOU POINTED OUT, LAURA, TO KEEP ALL THOSE SUBGROUPS WITHIN ABOUT 5% OF EACH OTHER SO THERE AREN'T THOSE DISCREPANCIES, IN ADDITION INCREASING READING AND MATH PROPHECY FOR ABOUT 50% FOR VULNERABLE GROUPS, ALL OF THIS BY 2025.

GOALS ARE GREAT BUT THAT GAME PLAN OF HOW TO ACHIEVE THOSE GOALS IS SOMETHING ELSE ENTIRELY.

DID YOU SEE ENOUGH OF THAT SUBSTANCE BEHIND HOW WE ARE GOING TO GET TO THOSE GOALS?

Dan: I THINK THERE IS SOME GOOD GOALS, AMBITIOUS GOALS THERE.

I THINK TRYING TO MAKE SOME OF THESE CHANGES OVERNIGHT IS PROBABLY NOT LIKELY TO HAPPEN.

IT IS GOING TO TAKE, LIKE LAURA SUGGESTED, TARGETED INVESTMENTS BUT CARRYING THEM OVER TIME.

ONE THING IN THE REPORT THAT CAUGHT MY EYE WAS JUST KIND OF THE BREAKDOWN OF THE TEACHING PROFESSION AND DOES THAT REFLECT THE STUDENT POPULATION.

I THINK THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, NATIVE STUDENTS MAKE UP 10% OF THE STATE'S ENROLLMENT AND NATIVE TEACHERS ARE ONLY 2%.

KIND OF SIMILAR BREAKDOWN WHEN IT COMES TO HISPANIC STUDENTS SO I THINK KIND OF TRYING TO GET NEW TEACHERS IN THE PIPELINE, YOU KNOW, GET THEM THE TRAINING, YOU KNOW, GET THEM INTERESTED IN BEING A TEACHER AND HAVING A LIVABLE WAGE, THOSE THINGS WILL TAKE TIME.

IT COULD TAKE YEARS TO KIND OF BUILD THAT UP BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE A ROAD MAP, CERTAINLY IT WON'T HAPPEN.

I THINK ALSO WITH THE PANDEMIC, THAT HAS MADE IT HARD AS WELL TO MEET GOALS.

AND OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF STUDENTS AND TEACHERS AND FAMILIES HAVE HAD A HARD TIME WITH DISTANCE LEARNING AND NOW TRYING TO GET BACK TO NORMAL BUT IT IS KIND OF A NEW NORMAL.

I THINK ALL THOSE THINGS HAVE ADDED TO THE CHALLENGE OF THE ADDRESSING THIS ISSUE AND THE COURT RULING.

Kevin: WE TALKED A LOT ON THIS SHOW ABOUT TEACHER RAISES AND THE LATEST STATE BUDGET GOVERNOR AND LEGISLATORS SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASED PAY FOR TEACHERS AND THEY WANT TO INCREASE THAT DIVERSITY BY ABOUT 20% OF TEACHERS IN THE CLASSROOM.

BUT IS THAT MONEY GOING TO BE ENOUGH?

I MEAN, AGAIN, TO SAY THAT WE WANT CONTINUE TO INCREASE THAT DIVERSITY IN TEACHERS IS GREAT, BUT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT TEACHER SHORTAGES FOR YEARS.

PART OF THAT MAY BE SOLVED BY THESE RAISES BUT IF NOT WHAT ARE THE BIG IDEAS WE CAN COME UP WITH TO ATTRACT AND RETAIN NEW TEACHERS THAT REFLECT THE CLASSROOM?

Merritt: I THINK THERE ARE SO MANY CHALLENGES THAT EXIST ADMINISTRATIVELY TO SIMPLY LICENSING AND BRINGING ON-BOARDING NEW TEACHERS AND AT APS IT CAN TAKE UP TO 18 MONTHS TO BECOME LICENSED ONCE YOU COMPLETE YOUR EDUCATION.

SO THAT DRAG, THAT IS THREE SEMESTERS JUST TO GET A NEW TEACHER ON BOARD, THEN YOU'RE ON AN ANNUAL CONTRACT AND YOU HAVE TO COMPETE FOR YOUR JOB SO WHY WOULD YOU STAY?

YOU KNOW GET INTO A SCHOOL, YOU GET A RAPPORT, YOU LIKE THE FACULTY AND THEN YOU'RE THROWN BACK OUT IN THE POOL AND YOU FIND OUT, YOU KNOW, YOU MAY BE ON THE EAST SIDE CLOSE TO YOUR HOUSE ON TRAMWAY AND SUDDENLY THE ONLY JOB THAT IS AVAILABLE FOR YOU AT THE END OF THE SCHOOL YEAR IN THE COMING AUGUST, NEXT COMING AUGUST, IS OUT AT VOLCANO VISTA.

THAT IS A TREMENDOUS CHALLENGE, JUST AS MY FRIEND LIKES TO CALL IT, ADMINISTRIVIA THAT PUTS UP BARRIERS TO KEEPING GOOD TEACHERS AND AIDES AND COUNSELORS.

AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THIS LAWSUIT WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT CAME UP.

THIS ISN'T JUST IN THE LAST 10 YEARS THAT HAS COME UP.

WE HAVE GOT AT LEAST FIVE DECADES OF POOR PERFORMANCE NATIONALLY AND DECADES OF INERTIA AND INDIFFERENCE.

THAT IS WHAT BROUGHT THIS TO BEAR.

AND THIS POOR PERFORMANCE HAS IMPACTED OUR WORKFORCE, OUR ECONOMY.

IT HAS CONTRIBUTED TO OUR POVERTY AND DRUG USE.

I THINK SO MANY OF THE PROBLEMS ENDEMIC IN OUR STATE, START IN OUR INCREDIBLY POOR PERFORMING EDUCATION SYSTEM.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IS THIS STUFF ENOUGH, ARE THE GOALS TOUGH ENOUGH, I THINK WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT IMPLEMENTATION AND IS PED CAPABLE AND ARE THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS GOING TO BE CAPABLE OF IMPLEMENTING THESE CHANGES IN A MEASURED WAY WITH ACCOUNTABILITY, WITH MILESTONES?

DO THEY HAVE THE RESOURCES AND OVERSIGHT TO ACHIEVE IT?

Kevin: ANOTHER BIG CHALLENGE, WHICH WE HAVE TOUCHED ON A LOT, NOT NECESSARILY SO FAR TODAY, BUT INTERNET ACCESS, BROADBAND THAT WE NEED ACROSS THE STATE, HUGE INFRASTRUCTURE AROUND THAT, AS WELL.

AND, SO, I AM CURIOUS, DAN, YOU MENTIONED IT EARLIER, THESE ARE THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO TAKE A LONG TIME TO ACCOMPLISH.

MERRITT, YOU JUST ALLUDED TO THE IMPLEMENTATION AND ACCOUNTABILITY.

DAN, HOW DO YOU BALANCE THAT IN THE SHORT TERM BETWEEN SHOWING PROGRESS AND YET ALSO UNDERSTANDING THAT WE ARE GOING TO SOLVE THIS OVER GENERATIONS?

Dan: I THINK RESOURCES HAVE TO BE THERE BUT I THINK WE HAVE SEEN JUST THROWING MONEY AT THE ISSUE ISN'T ENOUGH.

YOU NEED A PLAN AND YOU NEED TO DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY OR ELSE IT IS AS LAURA TALKED ABOUT, JUST CONTINUING THE SAME PATTERN.

I ALSO THINK THAT RIGHT NOW THE STATE DOES HAVE A LOT OF MONEY OBVIOUSLY, REVENUE COMING UP, BUT THAT IS NOT A GIVEN, 5, 10 YEARS FROM NOW.

IS THE STATE GOING TO MAKE THE COMMITMENT TO CONTINUE THESE PROGRAMS EVEN WHEN WE DO SEE THOSE INEVITABLE KIND OF REVENUE DOWNTURNS.

Kevin: JUST ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT, BUT, AGAIN, THIS IDEA OF BALANCING EXPECTATIONS WITH THIS COMMITMENT, WE'LL TALK MORE ABOUT MAYBE WHAT COULD BE DONE WITH SOME OF THAT MONEY WE'RE SEEING IN NOW, BUT ESPECIALLY WHEN WE SEE THE DELAYS IN THIS DRAFT PLAN EVEN COMING OUT, THERE IS GOING TO BE A PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD ON THIS, BUT HOW DO PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THERE IS THAT ACCOUNTABILITY IN PLACE IN THIS.

Laura: IT IS IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE INTERESTED IN THIS ISSUE TO WEIGH IN.

NOT JUST ORGANIZED GROUPS WHO I THINK ARE AWARE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING AND ARE USED TO PUTTING IN COMMENTS, PERHAPS, WHEN AGENCIES RELEASE REPORTS AND SO FORTH, BUT -- YOU KNOW THERE SHOULD BE PARENTS THAT ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS, THERE SHOULD BE OTHER GROUPS, LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, TRIBAL GOVERNMENTS.

THIS IS STATE-WIDE ISSUE AND DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT ALL OF US HAVE A STAKE IN.

BUT TO THE ISSUE YOU ASKED DAN ABOUT WITH REGARD TO INFRASTRUCTURE AND BROADBAND, THERE IS SUCH A HUGE TECH GAP WHEN YOU LOOK AT THESE PARTICULAR POPULATIONS THAT ARE VULNERABLE AND LET'S NOT FORGET THERE IS FEDERAL FUNDING COMING OUT FROM THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL RELATED TO BROADBAND EXPANSION AND ASSISTANCE FROM THE FEDS.

SO IT IS IMPORTANT FOR THIS STATE TO GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER IN TERMS OF APPLYING FOR SOME OF THAT FUNDING WHICH IS OFTEN FORMULA FUNDING SO THEY CAN USE TO TRY TO EXPAND THAT INFRASTRUCTURE AND MAKE SURE THAT STUDENTS ARE CONNECTED.

Kevin: MUCH MORE ON THAT FORMULA FUNDING QUESTION TO COME HERE ON THE SHOW.

BUT, WE MENTIONED THAT PUBLIC COMMENT AND PED, PUBLIC EDUCATION DEPARTMENT, IS ACCEPTING COMMENTS ON THIS DRAFT PLAN THROUGH JUNE 17, JUST HEAD TO THE WEBSITE TO FIND OUT WHERE YOU CAN GET INVOLVED IN THAT PROCESS.

SUPER IMPORTANT THAT WE ALL DO THAT.

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK FOR ANOTHER DISCUSSION WITH OUR LINE OPINION PANEL, THIS TIME ABOUT HOW THE STATE'S RELIANCE ON FOSSIL FUELS IMPACTS OUR SHIFTS TOWARD RENEWABLES.

Curley: WHAT IS MISSED BY THIS FEAR OF WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE WORLD DUE TO CLIMATE CHANGE IS REALLY THE KIND OF INNOVATIVE, SOCIAL, POLITICAL AND CULTURAL STRATEGY THAT INDIGENOUS PEOPLE HAVE HAD AND HAVE BEEN MADE TO HAVE IN ORDER TO SURVIVE.

Kevin: HELLO AGAIN TO OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS AND ALL OF YOU AS WELL.

THE STATE BUDGET SURPLUS IS GROWING FASTER THAN EXPECTED.

THANKS TO DAN BOYD FOR THE REPORTING FROM YOU AND THE JOURNAL ON ALL OF THIS.

REVENUE FOR THE CURRENT BUDGET YEAR IS NOW EXPECTED TO BE MORE THAN 440 MILLION-DOLLARS HIGHER THAN PROJECTED JUST THIS LAST DECEMBER.

OIL PRODUCTION IS A BIG REASON WHY ALONG WITH A BOOST IN PERSONAL INCOME TAX REVENUE.

AND INFLATION IS ALSO PUSHING GROSS RECEIPTS TAX REVENUE UP.

ON THE SURFACE THIS HAS TO BE GOOD NEWS FOR THE STATE AND THE COFFERS BUT NOW COMES THE TASK OF FIGURING OUT HOW TO USE ALL THAT MONEY.

DAN, HAVE YOU HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT WHERE LAWMAKERS ARE LEANING WHEN IT COMES TO SPENDING THIS INFLUX OF CASH?

Dan: THIS IS KIND OF THE NEWEST INFLUX.

ALREADY DURING THIS YEAR'S SESSION THERE WAS A BIG WINDFALL OF NEW REVENUES.

SOME OF THAT WAS USED TO GIVE REBATES TO TAXPAYERS, TEACHER WAGES AND IT APPEARS THAT EVEN MORE MONEY IS GOING TO COME IN.

I THINK WE HAVE LEARNED, YOU KNOW, IT IS A ROLLER COASTER RIDE THESE LAST FEW YEARS.

WE'LL SEE WHERE IT GOES BUT THIS IS UNPRECEDENTED EVEN TO HAVE LEGISLATIVE FOLKS TELL ME THIS KIND OF LEVEL OF REVENUE, THESE NUMBERS WE ARE SEEING.

BUT I THINK, AS YOU MENTIONED KEVIN, IT DOES KIND OF, ON THE ONE HAND REVENUES ARE WAY UP, ON THE OTHER HAND FOLKS AROUND NEW MEXICO ARE DEALING WITH HIGHER GAS PRICES, HIGHER PRICES AT THE STORE, SO, I THINK STATE OFFICIALS AND LEGISLATORS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO FIGURE OUT, YEAH, WE HAVE ALL THIS MONEY BUT A LOT OF FOLKS ARE HURTING OUT THERE AND WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO PUT THIS TO USE AND ADDRESS SOME OF THESE SERIOUS ISSUES FACING NEW MEXICO, BECAUSE THE MONEY IS PROBABLY NOT GOING TO LAST FOREVER.

Kevin: WE KNOW SPECIFICALLY THE FEDERAL INFLUX AROUND THE INFRASTRUCTURE DEFINITELY NOT GOING TO LAST FOREVER AND THESE DEBATES BETWEEN RECURRING AND NONRECURRING COSTS BUT I HAVE TO ASK, DID THE SPECIAL SESSION REBATE HAY DAY SET A DANGEROUS PRECEDENT NOW WITH MORE MONEY COMING IN THAT FOLKS WILL EXPECT ANOTHER ROUND OF REBATES AND SHOULD THAT BE A CONSIDERATION, DO YOU THINK?

Laura: I CERTAINLY AGREE WITH YOU.

IT SETS A PRECEDENT OR AT VERY LEAST IT SETS EXPECTATION THAT THERE WILL BE A USE FOR THOSE FUNDS IN THAT WAY.

SO, BUT THE REAL TRICK IS, HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH AN INFLUX WHEN YOU KNOW THAT YOU CAN'T, I MEAN, NOT THAT IT DOESN'T GET DONE, BUT YOU REALLY SHOULDN'T BE SPENDING MONEY ON THINGS THAT ARE RECURRING, THINGS THAT CONTINUE TO EITHER GROW OR CONTINUE, YOU KNOW, TO NEED FUNDING GOING FORWARD.

IDEALLY WHEN YOU HAVE AN INFLUX THAT IS TEMPORARY YOU WANT TO SPEND IT ON THINGS THAT ARE TEMPORARY SO THAT, YOU KNOW, THE AMOUNT THAT COMES IN MATCHES WHAT THE TYPE OF SERVICE YOU'RE TRYING TO PROVIDE SO IT ISN'T ONGOING, BUT WE HAVE SO MANY NEEDS THAT ARE ONGOING RIGHT NOW, I THINK IT IS ALMOST IRRESPONSIBLE FOR THEM NOT TO CONSIDER SOME OF THOSE PROJECTS IN THOSE AREAS WE JUST FINISHED TALKING ABOUT, EDUCATION BEING A HUGE AREA, AND AN IMPORTANT ONE IN TERMS OF ACROSS THE BOARD AFFECTS SO MANY OTHER AREAS LIKE CRIME, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, WORKFORCE SOLUTIONS AND ALL OF THAT.

I THINK IT IS REALLY DIFFICULT.

WE ARE GOING TO PROBABLY SEE A LOT OF PROPOSALS GIVEN IN THE 60-DAY SESSION COMING UP AND IN AN ELECTION YEAR YOU WILL HEAR A LOT OF NOISE ABOUT HOW THE FUNDS SHOULD USED BUT WE HAVE TO BE CAUTIOUS AND NOT JUST GO OUT AND SPEND, SPEND, SPEND AND END UP BEING IN A REALLY TOUGH PLACE IN TERMS OF CUTTING SERVICES ONCE THOSE FUNDS, YOU KNOW, GO BACK DOWN, BECAUSE WE EXPECT THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

Kevin: FOR SURE.

AGAIN, YOU HAVE THIS PUSH PULL AND PEOPLE ARE FEELING IN THEIR WALLET EVERYDAY WHEN THEY GO TO GROCERY STORE OR GAS PUMP AND THAT IS WHERE REBATES ARE A POSSIBILITY TO HELP FOLKS.

ANOTHER THING WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE ARE THE GAS TAXES AND WE KNOW THAT THE GOVERNOR ENCOURAGED THE PRESIDENT TO GET RID OF THE FEDERAL GAS TAX FOR A WHILE.

DOESN'T APPEAR THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN BUT THERE IS THE STATE GAS TAX AS WELL.

SHOULD THEY BE LOOKING AT THAT IF WE ARE NOT GOING TO LOOK AT REBATES, DO YOU THINK?

Merritt: ABSOLUTELY, I THINK OUR ENTIRE TAX CODE HAS TO BE LOOKED AT, IN PARTICULAR, GRT.

THAT HAS BEEN ON THE AGENDA SESSION AFTER SESSION AND NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE ABOUT IT.

AND I THINK THAT REALLY GOES TO A LARGER ISSUE THINKING STRATEGICALLY FOR THE LEGISLATURE AND THE STATE, DOES A PART-TIME UNPAID LEGISLATURE REALLY SERVE THE COMPLEX NEEDS OF OUR STATE IN THE 21ST CENTURY?

I WOULD SAY NO.

AND I THINK WE COULD ALSO LOOK TO A REAL SUCCESS OF THE PREVIOUS LEGISLATURES AND THAT WOULD BE THE EARLY CHILDHOOD INVESTMENT FUND.

WHILE WE HAVE THESE SURPLUS FUNDS WHY DON'T WE LOOK AT AN INVESTMENT FUND TO FUND A PAID LEGISLATURE?

A PAID PROFESSIONAL LEGISLATURE.

THAT WOULD ATTRACT A DIFFERENT TYPE OF CANDIDATES, ONE THAT IS NOT INDEPENDENTLY WEALTHY OR RETIRED OR WHATEVER REASON, AND REALLY TAKE THE TIME TO LOOK AT THESE ISSUES.

YOU CAN'T GET IT DONE IN 90 DAYS EVERY TWO YEARS.

THAT IS WHY WE HAD TWO SPECIAL SESSIONS THIS YEAR.

WE NEED MORE TIME TO ADDRESS THE ISSUES OF OUR STATE AND I DON'T THINK THAT IS ASKING FOR MORE GOVERNMENT OR LARGER GOVERNMENT, BUT I THINK WE NEED MORE TIME AND A PROFESSIONAL LEGISLATURE TO LOOK AT THESE ISSUES LIKE, GRT AND TAX REBATES, AND ALSO THE LONG-TERM IMPACTS OF WE ARE GOING TO BE MOVING AWAY FROM FOSSIL FUELS IN THE NEXT 10, 20, 30 YEARS.

THE LARGE ENERGY COMPANIES HAVE SAID THIS.

WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRANSITION TO RENEWABLES.

THERE IS NO PLAN.

THIS IS SOMETHING THE LEGISLATURE AND THE ADMINISTRATIONS IN THE FUTURE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO ADDRESS AND THEY ARE NOT GOING TO DO IT IN 90 DAYS EVERY TWO YEARS.

Kevin: YOU BRING UP A GREAT POINT MERRITT.

DAN, YOU TOUCHED ABOUT THIS IN YOUR REPORTING BUT WHAT ARE THE INNOVATIVE IDEAS TO MANAGE SOME OF THESE THINGS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT?

I DID REMEMBER SOMETHING ABOUT MAYBE THE IDEA OF ENDOWMENTS WITH THAT EARLY CHILDHOOD INVESTMENT FUND SO THAT MAYBE THAT STARTS TO CREATE SOME MONEY THAT BUILDS ON ITSELF.

I HEAR RUMORS THAT PATRICIA LUNDSTROM MAY LOOK AT DOING AWAY WITH INCOME TAX ALTOGETHER, AT LEAST PUSHING FOR THAT.

WHAT SORT OF OUT-OF-THE-BOX IDEAS DO YOU EXPECT TO SEE COME OUT OF THIS AND WITH THIS OPPORTUNITY COMING UP IN A 60-DAY SESSION?

Dan: THE LEGISLATIVE FINANCE COMMITTEE DIRECTOR DAVID ABBEY SUGGESTED SETTING UP MORE ENDOWMENTS, MAYBE ONE FOR THE OPPORTUNITY SCHOLARSHIP PROGRAM THAT COVERS A LOT OF TUITION AND FEES FOR STUDENTS, CERTAIN HIGHER EDUCATION STUDENTS AND THE LEGISLATURE HAS DONE SOME OF THAT ALREADY, SETTING UP THE LATE FORMER REPRESENTATIVE LARRY LARRANAGA SETTING UP A RAINY DAY FUND.

SOME OF THESE IDEAS.

SO MAYBE SET ASIDE SOME OF THIS MONEY, I THINK CERTAINLY IT IS TRUE THAT OIL IS HIGHER THAN EVER, MAKES UP 40% OF THE STATE BUDGET, OIL AND GAS REVENUES.

AND IT IS NOT GOING TO LAST FOREVER.

WE DON'T KNOW WHEN THAT DATE IS BUT FOR NOW CERTAINLY THE PRIMARY STANCE SEEMS TO BE LET'S BENEFIT FROM THIS WHILE WE CAN, MAYBE SET ASIDE SOME OF THESE MONIES AND THE THING IS THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE ANYTHING RIGHT NOW FROM A REVENUE PERSPECTIVE TO REPLACE OIL AND GAS WHEN THOSE DO GO AWAY.

THERE IS RENEWABLE ENERGIES AND OTHER PARTS OF THE INDUSTRY BUT NOTHING THAT IS GOING TO MAKE UP 40% OF THE STATE'S REVENUE BASE.

Kevin: FOR SURE.

LONG BEEN THE CHALLENGE HERE IN NEW MEXICO, LAURA, IS THERE SOMETHING WE CAN LOOK AT HERE GIVEN THAT, RIGHT?

BECAUSE, THE IRONY AGAIN IS THAT AS PEOPLE ARE FEELING THE PAIN EVERY TIME THEY GO TO THE PUMP THAT SAME PAIN IS FILLING UP THE STATE COFFERS.

WE KNOW THERE IS A DESIRE TO GET TO MORE RENEWABLE ENERGY.

IS THERE A WAY TO USE THIS MONEY TO HELP BRIDGE THE GAP BETWEEN THE TWO?

WHAT MORE SHOULD WE DO ON THAT FRONT?

Laura: SURE.

I THINK THERE IS A LOT THAT COULD BE DONE TO TRY TO BRIDGE THAT GAP.

WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK TO ESPECIALLY WHAT OTHER STATES HAVE DONE SUCCESSFULLY TO TRY TO TRANSITION BUT NEW MEXICO IS AT THE FOREFRONT OF A LOT OF POLICY DIRECTION IN TERMS OF TRYING TO MOVE TO LESS CARBON FUEL OR I AM SORRY, LET FOSSIL FUELS, LESS CARBON INTENSITY AS WE WORK TOWARDS THE GOALS OF WHAT THE ETA WAS, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO CERTAINLY OUR RISING GAS PRICES, SOME OF THAT OBVIOUSLY GO POLITICAL ISSUES ARE AFFECTING THAT, ALSO AFFECTING SUPPLY CHAIN ISSUES, THE PANDEMIC HAS BEEN A FACTOR BUT AS WE LOOK AT ALSO WHAT OTHER STATES ARE GOING THROUGH RIGHT NOW, WE CAN LEARN FROM IT.

CALIFORNIA, I WAS THERE LAST WEEK AND IN NORTHERN CALIFORNIA AND THE PRICE AT THE PUMP IS JUST UNBELIEVABLE IF YOU RENT A CAR THERE AND I WAS FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO GET THERE AND RENT A CAR.

BUT IT WAS PAINFUL AND WE JUST CAN'T POSSIBLY SUSTAIN THOSE LEVELS OF GAS PRICES HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

SO IT IS IMPORTANT THAT OUR LAWMAKERS DO CONSIDER WHAT WE CAN DO FOR FOLKS WHO ARE REALLY STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW, NOT JUST WITH GAS BUT ALSO TO KEEP FOOD ON THE TABLE.

Kevin: NO DOUBT WE'LL HAVE A LOT MORE TO TALK ABOUT THIS AS SOME OF THOSE PLANS COME INTO FRUITION.

WE'RE HEADING INTO INTERIM-COMMITTEE SEASON WHERE A LOT OF THINGS ARE TALKED ABOUT.

WE'LL KEEP TRACK OF ALL THAT.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR IMPORTANT FEEDBACK ON THAT DISCUSSION.

CHECK WITH YOU IN A LITTLE LESS THAN 15 MINUTES TO TALK ABOUT THE RECORD SETTING FIRE BURNING NEAR LAS VEGAS AND WHAT THE GOVERNOR ASKED FOR WITH A RECENT CALL WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN.

Lou: THE EXTREMES WE ARE SEEING IN OUR CLIMATE ARE SCARY TO EVERYONE, AND WITH SEVERE DROUGHT CONDITION EXPECTED FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE IT IS EASY TO FEEL LIKE WE ARE CAUGHT IN A HELPLESS SITUATION.

LAST WEEK, ENVIRONMENT REPORTER LAURA PASKUS SPOKE A PROFESSOR WHO SHARED WAYS TO ACTIVELY COPE WITH CLIMATE ANXIETY.

THIS WEEK SHE TALKS ANDREW CURLEY, PROFESSOR AT UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF GEOGRAPHY, DEVELOPMENT AND ENVIRONMENT.

HE SHARES HIS PERSPECTIVE ON THE IMPACTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE WHICH CHALLENGES US AROUND WATER SCARCITY AND THE NARRATIVE OF CLIMATE CATASTROPHE.

Laura: PROFESSOR CURLEY, THANK FOR SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME TODAY.

Curley: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

Laura: SO, YOUR RESEARCH FOCUSES ON THE EVERYDAY INCORPORATION OF INDIGENOUS NATIONS INTO COLONIAL ECONOMIES.

WHAT ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF THIS?

Curley: MY INITIAL RESEARCH PROJECT AS A GRADUATE STUDENT I THINK WAS THE MAIN EXAMPLE THAT I HAD IN MIND.

AT THAT TIME, ALTHOUGH THERE IS MANY OTHER EXAMPLES ABOUT IT, WAS THE COAL ECONOMY IN NAVAJO NATION WHICH STARTED IN THE 1960'S, AT LEAST IN AN INDUSTRIAL SCALE, AND HAS COME TO AN END IN MANY PARTS OF THE RESERVATION OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS AND SO IT IS THINKING ABOUT THE RAMIFICATIONS OF THAT TYPE OF ECONOMY, THAT PARTICIPATION IN EXTRACTIVE INDUSTRIES IN COAL, IN PARTICULAR, THE KIND OF WORK AND LABOR INVOLVED, THE KIND OF REVENUE THAT IS GENERATED FOR THE TRIBAL GOVERNMENT AND THEN, OF COURSE, ENVIRONMENTAL CONSEQUENCES OF THAT TYPE OF WORK, AND THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT ARE PART OF THE COLONIAL ECONOMIES THAT, YOU KNOW, SURROUND INDIAN COUNTRY AND INCORPORATE LARGE PARTS OF OUR LAND INTO THE SERVICE OF OTHER THINGS.

SO, WHEN WE THINK ABOUT COAL, A LOT OF THE ENERGY PRODUCED, IN FACT, ALL THE ENERGY PRODUCED, WAS GOING TOWARD OUTSIDE COMMUNITIES AND GOING TOWARDS SPECIFIC TYPES OF PROJECTS.

IN THIS CASE, WITH THE CHINTA MINE AND THE NAVAJO GENERATING STATION, THE GOAL WAS -- I MEAN THE ENERGY PRODUCED BY COAL WAS GOING TOWARD THE CENTRAL ARIZONA PROJECT, THE MAKING OF THIS WATER INFRASTRUCTURE IN ARIZONA.

BUT, OTHER PARTS OF THE ECONOMY YES, NAVAJO MINE ON THE EARN END OF THE RESERVATION IN WHAT IS PART OF NEW MEXICO, THAT IS GOING TOWARDS, I THINK -- EVEN PNM HAS SOME UTILITY STAKE IN THESE POWER PLANTS, SO THAT IS GOING TOWARDS THE PLACES WHERE PNM SERVES.

SO, ALL OF THIS IS TO SAY THE KINDS OF ECONOMIC ACTIVITIES GENERATED IN THE RESERVATION AND WHICH WERE STRUCTURED THROUGH LONG-TERM POLICIES FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, PARTNERSHIP WITH STATE OFFICIALS, ESPECIALLY IN THE 1930'S, THESE ECONOMIES ARE GEARED TOWARD OUTSIDE INTEREST ESPECIALLY OTHER COMMUNITIES, SETTLER COMMUNITIES OUTSIDE OF THE RESERVATION.

SO, THAT IS KIND OF MY GENERAL IDEA OF WHAT COLONIAL ECONOMIES ARE.

Laura: I WANTED TO TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE COLORADO RIVER WHICH IS BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, IN CRISIS MODE RIGHT NOW FOR CITIES AND IRRIGATION DISTRICTS.

THERE IS MORE DEMAND FOR WATER THAN THERE IS SUPPLY RIGHT NOW.

YOU HAVE WRITTEN EXTENSIVELY ABOUT THE CENTRAL ARIZONA PROJECT AND I HEARD YOU SPEAK RECENTLY ABOUT SCARCITY AND HOW WE DON'T TALK ENOUGH ABOUT HOW DAMS AND RESERVOIRS ARE WHAT YOU CALLED THE CONCRETE MANIFESTATIONS OF COLONIALIST AMBITIONS AND HOW THEY CONTRIBUTE TO DROUGHT.

AND TO THIS NARRATIVE OF DROUGHT AND NARRATIVE OF CRISIS.

CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH THAT A LITTLE BIT.

Bassett: WHEN BOLDER CANYON ACT WAS PASSED, WHEN HOOVER DAM WAS CONSTRUCTED, THERE IS ALL THIS MYTHOLOGY AND LORE ABOUT THE CONSTRUCTION OF THESE INFRASTRUCTURES AND THEN EVENTUALLY GLENN CANYON DAM, PARKER DAM, THE CENTRAL ARIZONA PROJECT, ALL OF THESE DAMS ALONG THE LOWER BASIN PART OF THE COLORADO RIVER, THESE DAMS -- WE WEREN'T ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT OH THIS IS TOO EXPENSIVE, THIS IS NOT SERVING ENOUGH PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, IT WAS ALL ABOUT FUTURE ORIENTED IDEOLOGY, LIKE, OH, WE NEED TO CREATE CAP IN ORDER FOR PHOENIX TO GROW, WE NEED TO BUILD THESE DAMS IN ORDER FOR THE SOUTHWEST TO BLOSSOM.

THE PROBLEM, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A DIFFERENT STANDARD BEING APPLIED WHEN YOU ARE TALKING INFRASTRUCTURES THAT SERVE WHITE COMMUNITIES AS OPPOSED TO INFRASTRUCTURES THAT SERVE NATIVE COMMUNITIES, AND YOU CAN GUESS WHAT THE REASON IS FOR THOSE DOUBLE STANDARD AND SO WHEN YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT THINGS LIKE THE HOOVER DAM, WHEN YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT THINGS LIKE THAT AND THE CRISIS WE ARE IN NOW, AND THE DROUGHT AND THE EFFECTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE ON THE COLORADO RIVER, THAT IS SOMETHING LIKE, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU INTRODUCE THIS QUESTION YOU SAID, THE RIVER IS IN CRISIS FOR EX AMOUNT OF PEOPLE, WATER DISTRICTS, THESE PEOPLE, ALL OF THESE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN BENEFITING FROM THESE COLONIAL DIVERSIONS FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

IF YOU TAKE IT FROM AN INDIGENOUS PERSPECTIVE, IF YOU TAKE IT FROM A NAVAJO PERSPECTIVE OR HOPI, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THAT THAT RIVER HAS BEEN IN CRISIS FOR QUITE SOME TIME, GOING BACK TO THESE FIRST INCURSIONS INTO THE REGION, GOING BACK TO THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE ROOSEVELT DAM ALONG THE SALT RIVER.

ONCE THE COLONISTS CAME IN AND STARTED TO DAM THE RIVER AND CHANGE THE ECOLOGY, THAT IS WHEN THE RIVER STARTED TO GO INTO CRISIS, THAT IS KIND OF THE ORIGIN OF CLIMATE CHANGE IN THE REGION.

IT DID AFFECT THE CLIMATE, IT AFFECTED THE RIVER, IT AFFECTED ECOLOGIES OF THE REGION, THAT IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE.

SO WE CAN'T DIVORCE THESE INFRASTRUCTURES FROM THE CONSIDERATION OF CLIMATE CHANGES.

IN THE PRESENTATION I SHOW ACTUALLY WE INCLUDE THESE INFRASTRUCTURES WHEN THINKING ABOUT THE EFFECT OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

WE LOOK AT RESERVOIR LEVELS AND WE SAY, LOOK, THERE IS CLIMATE CHANGE HERE BECAUSE THE RESERVOIRS ARE SINKING.

THOSE RESERVOIRS ARE THOSE COLONIAL INTRUSIONS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

THEY ARE NOT NATURAL.

THE RIVER WAS NEVER MEANT TO SIT THE WAY IT DOES, BEHIND THE WALLS OF THESE DAMS.

SO, THAT ITSELF IS ORIGIN OF THE PROBLEM BEYOND THIS LARGER QUESTION OF THE DECLINING SNOWPACK OR FASTER MELTING SNOWPACK OR PROLONGED DROUGHT IN THE REGION.

I MEAN, THOSE THINGS ARE ALSO IMPORTANT BUT WHAT WE ARE NOT CONSIDERING ARE THE EFFECTS OF THESE DAMS.

THAT WAS KIND OF THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE IS LIKE YOU LOOK AT EVEN HOW WE TALK ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE, WE TALK ABOUT THE COLORADO RIVER AND IT BEING ENDANGERED AND THERE WAS LIKE -- WHEN THE ORIGIN POINTS OF THAT ENDANGERMENT BEGINS IN MOST PEOPLES' MINDS IS FAIRLY RECENTLY.

IT DOESN'T GO BACK TO THE COLORADO COMPACT.

ARGUABLY THE COLORADO COMPACT HAS HAD MORE IMPACT ON THE COLORADO RIVER THAN THE EFFECTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE THUS FAR.

SO, WHY AREN'T WE TALKING ABOUT THAT?

Laura: TALKING ABOUT THESE MYTHS AND THESE DIFFERENT NARRATIVES, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE KIND OF ACROSS THE NEWS MEDIA AND THERE IS A LOT OF DOOM OR TALK ABOUT APOCALYPSE AND YOU AND MANY OTHERS POINT OUT THAT IS REALLY A EUROCENTRIC NARRATIVE AROUND NATURE AND AROUND CLIMATE CATASTROPHE.

WHAT DOES THAT MISS OUT ON?

WHAT IS THAT LACKING?

HOW COULD THAT BE DIFFERENT?

HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT?

Curley: I AM NOT THE FIRST ONE TO COME UP WITH THIS POINT.

MANY OTHER INDIGENOUS SCHOLARS AND MANY OTHER HISTORIANS EVEN HAVE TALKED ABOUT HOW THE WAY WE UNDERSTAND TIME AND PROGRESS AND FUTURE CATASTROPHE, IT IS NEGLECTING WHAT IS THE EXPERIENCE OF INDIGENOUS NATIONS, WHAT IS THE EXPERIENCE OF PEOPLE ON THE GROUND OR PEOPLE THAT ARE SUCKED UP INTO THESE SYSTEMS WHEN WORLDS END?

THERE ARE THESE WORLD ENDING EXPERIENCES FOR PEOPLE THAT HAVE ALREADY HAPPENED AND SO YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT APOCALYPSE AND YOUR IMAGINATION IS IMAGINING THE END OF THE WORLD FOR A CERTAIN GROUP OF PEOPLE AND USUALLY THEY ARE SUBURBAN, AFFLUENT OR CITY PEOPLE OR POLITICIANS OR I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS IN THE MIND OF PEOPLE WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT THIS APOCALYPSE IN THE FUTURE OR THE DANGER OF THE RIVERS, BUT WHAT ENDS BEING NEGLECTED IS KIND OF THESE PAST INTRUSIONS.

AND SO WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DAMMING UP OF LIKE THE MISSOURI RIVER, RIGHT, WITH THE PICK-SLOAN ACT AND FLOODING OF HUNDREDS OF ACRES OF INDIGENOUS LAND THAT WAS GUARANTEED THROUGH TREATY, THAT IS A WORLD-CHANGING EXPERIENCE.

THAT IS APOCALYPSE OF SORTS.

AND WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE BUILDING OF THESE DAMS ALONG THE NAVAJO NATION AND THE LAND SWAPS INVOLVED IN ORDER TO GET A LAKE POWELL AND TO STILL MAINTAIN A LAND BASE IN NAVAJO NATION, THESE ARE APOCALYPTIC SCENARIOS.

AND OFTEN THEY HAPPEN WITH DAMS AND WITH THE WAY WE TREAT WATER IN THE WEST.

WE HAVE CREATED THESE HUGE WORLD CHANGING INFRASTRUCTURES THROUGHOUT THE REGION THAT HAVE ALSO CONTRIBUTED TO THE CHANGING OF THE LANDSCAPE, URBAN LANDSCAPE.

YOU KNOW, EVEN GOING THROUGH PHOENIX OR ALBUQUERQUE OR SANTA FE OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, YOU SEE CITIES GROWING AND GROWING, MADE POSSIBLE BY INFRASTRUCTURES.

SO THE WORLDS ARE ALWAYS CHANGING AROUND US AND WHAT IS MISSED BY THIS FEAR OF WHAT HAS HAPPENING AT THE END OF THE WORLD DUE TO CLIMATE CHANGE IS REALLY THE KIND OF INNOVATIVE, SOCIAL, POLITICAL AND CULTURAL STRATEGIES ENDOGENOUS PEOPLE HAVE HAD AND HAVE BEEN MADE TO HAVE IN ORDER TO SURVIVE ACROSS ALL OF THESE APOCALYPTIC EVENTS, YOU KNOW.

WE HAVE DEALT WITH ALL SORTS OF -- ALL SORTS OF WORST-CASE SCENARIOS, EVEN BEING MOVED PHYSICALLY OFF OF OUR LAND AT THE END OF A BAYONET TO AN HUELDE, YOU KNOW, AT BOSQUE REDONDO ON THE EASTERN END OF NEW MEXICO.

THAT IS BETWEEN 1862 AND 1868, YOU KNOW, THAT IS AN APOCALYPSE MOMENT FOR US AND WE SURVIVED THAT AND OVERCAME THAT AND WE MADE A NEW WORLD IN THE NAVAJO NATION AFTER THAT.

SO, THERE IS A LOT TO LEARN FROM INDIGENOUS PEOPLES' ABILITY TO RESPOND TO THESE CATASTROPHES AND TO THINK ABOUT WHAT ARE THE VALUES OF A SOCIETY THAT IS -- THAT HAS HAD TO OVERCOME ALL THESE MARGINALIZATIONS AND YET CONTINUE TO SURVIVE.

AND COMPARE THAT TO THE VALUES OF A SOCIETY THAT ARE CAUSING THOSE PROBLEMS, THAT ARE CAUSING THESE CATASTROPHES TO OCCUR IN THE FIRST PLACE.

AND MAYBE RATHER THAN THINKING ABOUT TECHNICAL SOLUTIONS, WE THINK OF POLITICAL AND ETHICAL SOLUTIONS, RIGHT?

WE THINK ABOUT HOW WE TREAT THE PLANET ETHICALLY, FIRST, BEFORE WE THINK ABOUT THINGS TECHNICALLY AND THAT GEARS US IN A TOTALLY DIFFERENT DIRECTION THAN IF WE CONTINUE TO HAVE THIS MODERNIST AND EUROCENTRIC IDEA OF TIME, OF PROGRESS AND TECHNICAL INNOVATION AND WE HAVE CRISIS AND THEN SOLUTION TO THOSE CRISES IS MORE TECHNOLOGY, IMPROVED TECHNOLOGY.

WHEN WE ARE THINKING ALONG THOSE LINES, WE END UP NOT ONLY CREATING MORE PROBLEMS, BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO CREATE NEW KIND OF INDUSTRIES TO SERVE THESE NEW ONES, WE PERPETUATE EXISTING INEQUALITIES.

WHEN WE ARE VALUING TECHNOLOGICAL INNOVATION OVER SOCIAL DIRECTIONALITY AND WHAT ARE THE VALUES OF A SOCIETY, THEN WE ARE NOT LOOKING AT OTHER KINDS OF SOLUTIONS, HOW DO WE WORK ON SOCIAL, POLITICAL AND ECONOMIC INEQUALITIES AT THE SAME TIME WHILE DEALING WITH THINGS THAT ARE SEEN TO BE IN THE REALM OF THE ENVIRONMENT, ENVIRONMENTAL CRISES, AND I THINK THAT IS KIND OF THE LARGER MORE, I GUESS, PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION THAT WE HAVE TO ASK OURSELVES WHEN WE ARE THINKING ABOUT IDEAS OF APOCALYPSE.

THAT IS A LONG-WINDED ANSWER AND IT FEELS LIKE IT IS LEADING WITH THIS KIND OF VAGUE IDEA OF WHAT TO DO IN PEOPLES' MINDS BUT THAT IS BASICALLY WHERE I AM AT WITH HOW WE WERE THINKING ABOUT THESE THINGS, ME AND OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN WRITING ABOUT THIS.

Laura: WELL, THANK YOU, PROFESSOR CURLEY.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

Curley: YOU'RE WELCOME.

Kevin: WELCOME BACK ONE FINAL TIME TO OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS.

WITH THE LARGEST FIRE IN NEW MEXICO HISTORY BURNING RIGHT NOW, THE STATE IS TAKING NEW PRECAUTIONS TO HELP PREVENT FUTURE FIRES.

STARTING THURSDAY MORNING, YESTERDAY, U.S. FOREST SERVICE INSTITUTED STAGE 3 FIRE RESTRICTIONS.

ALL LAND, ROADS AND TRAILS WITHIN THE MOUNTAIN TAYLOR, MOUNTAINAIR AND SANDIA RANGER DISTRICTS IN THE CIBOLA NATIONAL FOREST ARE NOW CLOSED ALONG WITH ENTIRE 1.6 MILLION-ACRE SANTA FE NATIONAL FOREST.

MERRITT, IT SEEMS SORT OF INEVITABLE BUT DOES IT SEND AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE, IF NOTHING ELSE?

Merritt: ABSOLUTELY.

IT HAD TO BE DONE.

OF COURSE, IT IS IRONIC, I WAS STRUCK BY, OF COURSE, THERE WAS A WASHINGTON POST ARTICLE ABOUT THE FIRES AND WHAT STRUCK ME IS IN THAT ARTICLE UNCONFIRMED REPORTS THAT THE HERMIT'S CANYON OR THE LARGE FIRE WAS CAUSED BY A PRESCRIBED BURN.

I AM LIKE, WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN WASHINGTON POST?

EVERYONE IS SAYING THIS.

THE.

GOVERNOR IS SAYING THIS.

THIS IS WHY WE HAVE A STATE OF EMERGENCY DECLARED BEFORE IT IS EVEN OVER.

AND SO, HOW IT IS LOOKED AT THROUGH THE NATIONAL LENS, OF COURSE, I THINK UNCONFIRMED REPORTS MEANS THE FOREST SERVICE ISN'T ADMITTING IT YET.

Kevin: RIGHT.

Merritt: WE HAVE A HUMANITARIAN CRIES THAT REALLY BOGGLES THE MIND, 15 TO 18,000 PEOPLE DISPLACED.

THAT IS A TREMENDOUS NUMBER, 1000 TO 1500 STRUCTURES DESTROYED.

THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN THE WHITEWATER BALDY FIRE THAT WAS LARGELY UNINHABITED AREAS OF THE GILA SO IT COULD JUST BE ALLOWED TO BURN ITSELF OUT.

THIS WILL TAKE TREMENDOUS MANPOWER AND EFFORT AND IT IS NOT EXPECTED TO STOP BURNING UNTIL JULY WHEN THE MONSOONS COME.

Kevin: IT IS GOING TO BE BRING FLOOD DANGER.

WE COULD GO RIGHT FROM ONE DISASTER TO ANOTHER.

Merritt: EXACTLY.

IT IS A VERY FRAGILE TIME.

I DID APPRECIATE THE WASHINGTON POST STORY PICKING UP ON THE CULTURAL ASPECTS AND GENERATIONS OF LIVELIHOOD LOST WITH THAT BECAUSE SOME OF OUR OLDEST SETTLEMENTS ARE IN THE AREA AND PATH OF THE FIRE.

BUT THE FOREST CLOSURES, I THINK, WERE INEVITABLE, WE HAVE HAD THEM BEFORE.

I THINK EVERYONE IS SEEING THIS AND I HOPE WE WILL SEE MORE CAUTION AND MORE RESTRICTIONS TO COME HONESTLY.

Kevin: THE FLIP SIDE OF THAT, LAURA, WE HAD A SERIES OF FIRES THAT WERE SET IN THE BOSQUE EARLIER THIS WEEK HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE.

MAYOR TIM KELLER SAID HE IS INTENT ON KEEPING THE BOSQUE OPEN FOR IF NO OTHER REASON THAN THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THERE TO CATCH THESE THINGS EARLY TO MAYBE HELP SELF POLICE.

IS THERE AN ARGUMENT TO BE MADE THAT WOULD BE GOOD FOR THE NATIONAL FOREST TOO, OR IS IT TOO BIG AND TOO CATASTROPHIC A THING TO KEEP IT WIDE OPEN?

Laura: I THINK THE SCALE OF THINGS IS VERY DIFFERENT.

BOSQUE IS MUCH SMALLER BY COMPARISON SO YOU'RE NOT SEEING THE SAME LEVEL OF RISK TO LIFE AND TO PROPERTY AS WELL AS TO WILDLIFE IN THE BOSQUE WITH THE SMALL NUMBER OF FIRES THAT WERE SET.

THEY WERE ABLE TO BE CONTAINED QUICKLY.

AND, A LARGE PART OF THAT IS BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE USE THE BOSQUE FOR RECREATIONAL PURPOSES.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE LARGER FIRES THAT HAVE TAKEN HOLD OF THE STATE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A SCALE THAT MAKES IT MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO GET PEOPLE IN AND OUT OF THERE IF THEY ARE IN HARM'S WAY.

AND WITH THE WIND, THOSE FIRES SPREAD A LOT FASTER THAN, YOU KNOW, THAN ANYONE CAN PREDICT.

I DO THINK THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE THERE, BUT, YOU KNOW, ON BALANCE, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THIS IS AN EXTREME MOVE, DEFINITELY RATCHETING UP THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS TO CLOSE DOWN OUR NATIONAL FOREST, I THINK ESPECIALLY AS WE HEAD INTO THE SUMMER, A LOT OF PEOPLE LOOK TO THAT FOR RECREATION.

IT SENDS AN IMPORTANT SIGNAL TO EVERYBODY THAT WE HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN DO MAKE SURE WE ARE ABLE TO HAVE FORESTS IN THE FUTURE, THAT WE ARE ABLE TO CONTAIN OUR WILDFIRES.

AND BE RESPONSIBLE ABOUT THE WAY WE USE SOME OF THOSE LANDS.

I THINK IT IS THE RIGHT MOVE FOR THE FOREST SERVICE TO DO.

Kevin: DAN, THE GOVERNOR SPOKE WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN EARLIER THIS WEEK, INVITED HIM OUT TO SEE THE DAMAGE FROM THE HERMIT'S PEAK CALF CANYON FIRE AND THE PRESIDENT SAID HE DID PLAN TO COME VISIT BUT WE DON'T HAVE A DATE YET.

DO YOU THINK THAT THAT PUBLICITY WILL HELP WITH THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS THAT MERRITT MENTIONED EARLIER?

Dan: I THINK IT WOULD BE APPRECIATED AND I AM TOLD IT IS LIKELY AT SOME POINT HE WILL COME OUT.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WOULD OBVIOUSLY REMEDY SOME OF THE REALLY SERIOUS ISSUES THESE FOLKS ARE DEALING WITH WHO HAVE HAD TO EVACUATE AND WHO HAVE LOST THEIR HOMES, LIVELIHOOD, ANIMALS, THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT THIS IS THE BIGGEST FIRE CURRENTLY BURNING IN THE COUNTRY.

I THINK THERE IS STILL -- YOU MENTIONED FLOODING.

THERE IS A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT WATERSHEDS, DAMAGE TO PLACES LIKE THOSE THAT THESE PEOPLE REALLY RELY ON AND STILL THE FIRE IS BURNING.

WE HAVEN'T EVEN FULLY EXTINGUISHED IT YET.

I THINK A PRESIDENTIAL VISIT WOULD SHOW THE SERIOUSNESS OF THIS ISSUE AND IT RAISES A QUESTION CERTAINLY, IN MY MIND, WHETHER THIS IS GOING TO BE KIND OF THE NEW NORMAL EVERY YEAR FOR NEW MEXICO, SEEING THESE FIRES EARLIER AND EARLIER IN THE YEAR AND FOREST CLOSURES FOR A LARGE PART OF THE SUMMER.

I MEAN, THEY ARE TOUGHER ON A PERSONAL LEVEL.

WE LOVE GETTING OUT AND HIKING BUT LOOKING AT IT FROM THE BIG PICTURE AND WHAT CAN BE DONE TO TRY TO PREVENT THIS AND KEEP IT FROM BECOMING A ROUTINE EVERY YEAR OCCURRENCE.

Kevin: MERRITT, THERE IS NO DOUBT THE GOVERNOR HAS BEEN AGGRESSIVE ON MANY FRONTS.

ANOTHER THING SHE DID THIS WEEK IS CALL ON THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO COVER 100% OF THE COST RELATED TO THE WILDFIRES.

NORMALLY, UNDER FEDERAL DISASTER DECLARATIONS STATES END UP PAYING ABOUT 25% BUT BECAUSE, AS YOU MENTIONED, THE GOVERNOR REMINDED THAT THIS APPARENTLY STARTED AS A PRESCRIBED FIRE FROM THE U.S. FOREST SERVICE.

SO, HER CLAIM IS THAT THEY SHOULD BE FULLY RESPONSIBLE.

IS THAT A FIGHT YOU THINK SHE CAN WIN?

Merritt: THIS REMINDS ME OF THE RELEASE OF MINE EFFLUENCE IN SOUTHWESTERN COLORADO A FEW YEARS BACK BY THE DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR.

THIS IS, AGAIN, TO ME, A HUGE GAP AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL.

AND, THE GOVERNOR AND THE STATE AND THE PEOPLE OF THE NORTHEASTERN NEW MEXICO HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE ANGRY.

AND I THINK THE CAP FROM FEMA IS 39,500 FOR HOME DAMAGES WHEN, YOU KNOW, FIVE GENERATIONS OF YOUR ESTATE HAS BURNED TO THE GROUND.

THAT IS NOT ENOUGH.

I THINK THE POLITICS ARE ON THE RIGHT SIDE.

I THINK IT IS POSSIBLE.

I THINK IT IS POSSIBLE.

THIS IS WINNABLE AND CERTAINLY I HAVE AN EMOTIONAL STAKE IN THIS AS I THINK EVERYONE IN NEW MEXICO DOES.

I THINK NEW MEXICO IS IN THE RIGHT ON THIS ONE.

Kevin: WE HAVE HEARD THE GOVERNOR CALL AGAIN FOR MUNICIPALITIES TO BAN FIREWORK SALES BECAUSE, AGAIN, SHE DOES NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO THAT HERSELF, AT LEAST AS FAR AS THE LAW STANDS RIGHT NOW.

WE HAVE SEEN SOME AREAS DO THAT BUT SHOULD THAT JUST BE A GIVEN AT THIS POINT TOO?

LIKE, WHAT ARE COMMUNITIES WAITING FOR ON THAT FRONT?

Laura: ABSOLUTELY.

I WAS SURPRISED WHEN I FIRST RELOCATED BACK TO NEW MEXICO AFTER LAW SCHOOL THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE A BAN ON FIREWORKS.

IT IS KIND OF SHOCKING BECAUSE I WENT TO GRADUATE SCHOOL IN ARIZONA AND IT WAS JUST KNOWN THAT YOU DIDN'T HAVE FIREWORKS.

THERE WERE DISPLAYS THAT WERE STILL PUT ON MY MUNICIPALITIES AND IT WAS JUST A LOT MORE SAFETY INVOLVED.

SO, IT IS REALLY SURPRISING THERE IS NOT THAT SAME LEVEL OF IMPORTANCE AND URGENCY IN NEW MEXICO WITH REGARD TO FIREWORKS.

AND, YOU KNOW, EVERY FOURTH OF JULY THOSE WITH PETS KNOW IT IS NOT REALLY A DAY, IT IS LIKE A MONTH OR TWO MONTHS WORTH.

Kevin: NOT JUST THE FOURTH OF JULY.

Laura: IT HAPPENS A LOT.

AND IT IS JUST TOO DANGEROUS ALL THE WAY AROUND.

I AM GLAD SHE CAME OUT WITH EXECUTIVE ORDER.

I THINK IT WAS APRIL 25 WE SHE ASKED URGING THE LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES TO COME OUT WITH THEIR OWN BANS UNDER THE FIREWORKS SAFETY ACT BUT SOME OF THOSE LOCAL COMMUNITIES ARE RELUCTANT BECAUSE THEY DO GET BUSINESS, THEY GET GRT AS A RESULT OF THAT ON THE SALES OF FIREWORKS IN THEIR AREA.

YOU GET A LOT OF OUT OF STATE COMPANIES COMING IN SO IT GENERATES ADDITIONAL ECONOMIC BENEFIT, BUT THEY HAVE TO WEIGH THAT WITH THE COST OF POTENTIALLY HAVING THE LOSS OF PROPERTY AND POTENTIAL LOSS OF LIFE FROM AN UNCONTROLLED FIRE.

SO, I THINK THE TIME HAS COME FOR THEM TO SERIOUSLY CONSIDER A BAN.

Kevin: IF WE ARE FACING A NEW NORMAL THAT MAY JUST BE PART OF IT AS WE MOVE FORWARD.

THANKS AGAIN TO THE ENTIRE LINE PANEL JOINING US ALWAYS VIRTUALLY ON ZOOM.

BE SURE TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANY OF THE TOPICS WE TALKED ABOUT ON OR FACEBOOK, TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM PAGES.

Lou: THERE ARE A LOT OF UNANSWERED QUESTIONS SURROUNDING THE PRESCRIBED BURN THAT GOT OUT OF CONTROL AND TURNED INTO THE HERMIT'S PEAK FIRE.

AND ALL OF US DESERVE THOSE ANSWERS.

OUR LAND CORRESPONDENT LAURA PASKUS IS WORKING DILIGENTLY TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THE STORY.

SO FAR, THE ANSWER FROM THE FOREST SERVICE HAS BEEN A RESOUNDING, THAT WILL HAVE TO WAIT.

WHILE ALL OF US UNDERSTAND THE URGENT NEED TO DEAL WITH THESE WILDFIRES STILL BLAZING ACROSS OR STATE, IT IS EQUALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED AND WORK TO FIND SOLUTIONS TO KEEP IT FROM EVER HAPPENING AGAIN.

REST ASSURED LAURA AND THE ENTIRE NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS TEAM WILL KEEP PUSHING FOR THOSE ANSWERS.

STAY TUNED, AND AS ALWAYS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AND FOR STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK, IN FOCUS.