Production and distribution of City Club forums and ideastream public media are made possible by PNC and the United Black Fund of Greater Cleveland, Inc.. Good afternoon and welcome to the City Club of Cleveland, where we are devoted to conversations of consequence that help democracy thrive.

It's Friday, March 22nd.

And I'm Anastasia Metropolis, professor in the Department of Psychological Sciences and the director of the Schubert Center for Child Studies at Case Western Reserve University.

It is our pleasure to partner with the City Club on today's forum on how to parent support and bond with your adult child.

Although all stages of life bring their own challenges, being right in the gap between adolescence and adulthood is a uniquely challenging time.

Not only do young adults face their own future life choices, they are confronting the many stressors facing our world and trying to make sense of their place in it.

However, our job as parents is far from over.

With increasing mental health concerns among youth.

Advancing technology in a rapidly changing job sector.

The work of parenthood feels very different than it did before.

Today, we will hear how to not just survive, but thrive as parents during this transformational time, or perhaps even present a different point of view for our young adults joining us here in person or on the broadcast on ideastream Public Media.

Here to explain it all is Dr. Laurence Steinberg, the distinguished university professor, and Laura H. Carnell, professor of psychology and neuroscience at Temple University.

His latest book, You and Your Adult Child How to Grow Together in Challenging Times, dives into how parents can support their grown children as they navigate uncertain waters, whether it's post-pandemic, mental health issues, climate concerns, global conflicts and wars, attacks on gender identity, racial injustice, or simply leaving home to make their own way as an adult.

Dr. Steinberg brings a lifetime of experience in adolescence and emerging adulthood.

Moderating today's conversation is Dr. Lisa Damour, author, psychologist and senior advisor to the Shubert Center for Child Studies at Case Western Reserve.

If you have a question for our speaker, you can text it to 3305415794.

That's 3305415794.

And the city club staff will try to work it into the second half of the program.

Members and Friends of the City Club of Cleveland please join me in welcoming Dr. Larry Steinberg and Dr. Lisa Delmore.

Thank you, Anastasia, and thank you all for being here.

I want to do a little level setting here about our guest.

So I have been a psychologist for 20 plus years.

I have studied adolescents at whole time.

Dr. Steinberg's work.

And Dr. Steinberg, it's the preeminent work in adolescent psychology in the world.

His he literally wrote the textbook on adolescents like literally it's what addiction is it in.

I'm working on finalizing the 14th.

And so I have always followed his work.

I have always looked to it as a real North Star in the most disciplined and careful scientific work on teenagers.

And then it has been my happy accident that in the last couple of years our work has brought us together.

And so I have claimed, Larry, as my friend and mentor, whether you want to be here or not, because it's an enormous honor to get to be in the same room with him as someone who has followed your work all along.

Okay.

So then you did this this giant favor of taking all of this experience and all of this knowledge and putting it into this fantastic book about raising people over the age of 20 or so and so I want to start with such a basic question, but I find it useful.

Why did you write this book?

I wrote it because I was asked to write it.

And so I'll tell the story because I think it does instruct us as to what's going on out there.

As Lisa said, and I'm a huge fan of Lisa's work, so thank you for that introduction.

I have worked in the field of adolescent development for my entire career, and I got a call one day from my editor who said that he had been approached by AARP.

Some of you may be already members because AARP had been hearing over and over again from their members that they were having trouble being parents of adult children in AARP, because you're not familiar with it is an organization that supports and advocates for people who are 50 and older.

And so they have a lot of parents of adult children because that's the age you are when you have adult culture and there is nothing out there.

And they wanted some help and some resources.

And I was asked if I'd be interested in writing the book.

And my adult child actually talked me into it.

He's in publishing.

And I said to him, I've only written on adolescence.

I don't know if I can do this.

And he said, Oh, you can do it.

And so I went ahead and said, yes, and I wrote it.

And as maybe will talk, I learned a lot while I was writing it as the parent of an adult child going through these issues at the same time that I was writing about them.

So I think that we're in uncharted territory for reasons that I'm sure we'll discuss.

The world has changed, young adulthood has changed, parents have changed, and nobody knows what the rules are.

And I wanted to help people think about how you make those rules for your family.

Okay.

So picking up on what you said about think about, you know, one of the things I so value in this book and your work is that you avoid prescriptive ism.

You don't tell people what to do, but you tell them how to think about it.

And you come at that from a really deep bench of having considered these topics yourself.

So just to get right down to it, say that you're 20 something is dating somebody you can't stand.

How do we think about that?

Well, I think the first thing that you should recognize is not the likelihood that this person is going to become your daughter or son in law.

Is probably pretty low because the age of marriage has been creeping up quite continuously since the early 1950s.

And most people, particularly people that have gone to college, are not getting married until well into their early thirties today.

And so the likelihood that the 20 something that your child is dating is going to become that person's spouse is pretty rare.

So don't panic would be my first to say.

The second thing to say is to sort of check your gut as to what it is about this person that you can't stand.

Are they qualities that you think endanger your child's welfare well-being?

Or is it a matter of taste?

And if it's a matter of taste, I don't think you say anything at all.

You just pray that it's going to run out before they get to marriage.

But if it's if it's something that's really serious in this person that makes them dangerous, I think if your child has been dating them for a while, it's okay to have a talk about that.

And it could be a talk, you know, that says, I've noticed that this person has a very bad drinking problem and that can be toxic to a relationship.

And I think you need to have a conversation with this person and say, unless you get help for this drinking problem, we can't stay together.

So I think first, sort the things that you don't like into the things that you have to talk about and things that you just can turn your nose away from and the And what I love about what you did here and in the book is you give the broad framing, and then when it does come down to it, you do offer language.

Because I think so much we get up to that moment and say, okay, I need to say something, but but what?

And here and in the book, you do such a beautiful job of scripts like that that can be adapted to the moment.

Okay.

Say that you don't have such wisdom and you just step in it and you say something you know that you shouldn't say.

You do weigh in on a taste matter, and it really harms your relationship with your older adult kid.

Like say that you're now in a moment that's very tense and unpleasant with your older adult child.

The relationship has sort of gone south.

And what would you say?

Well, you've probably had a lot of experience stepping on it before this.

And I think that all children, certainly by the time they're teenagers, of course, by the time they're young adults, understand that we make mistakes, we say things that we don't necessarily mean or we say something impulsively and if you take your child aside and apologize and say, you know, I spoke too soon, I really thought about my feelings, I'd like to discuss with you where they came from and how I think we can remedy things, and I think we should move ahead here.

And I hope that you'll forgive me for what I said.

And I'm sorry if it's caused some trouble between you and your partner, but I genuinely am very sorry for this, and I hope we can get beyond it.

Beautiful.

Okay.

One of the things when I was reading your book where I started to dog your dog, your dog, your pages was actually from the financial stuff.

I've never seen this anywhere in terms of thinking about what?

How should we conceptualize our financial relationships with our young adult children?

Let's start with one of the things that you note and have talked about, which is that a lot of young people in their twenties or so live at home now in a way that is different.

So can you unpack that for us a little bit?

Sure.

Living at home with one or both of your parents is now the most common living arrangement for Americans in their twenties, and it has never been that way in this century, in the 20th century, even before that.

So even at the height of the Great Depression, it wasn't the most common living arrangement for people in their twenties.

So the starting point is very important, which is that it's completely new in this country, but it is not new all over the world.

And so there are many developed countries.

Italy is the first that comes to most people's mind in which it's perfectly normal to do this.

And so I think it's important that parents understand that this is not a sign that you have failed.

It's not a sign that your adult child has failed.

It's a product of the economic changes that Lisa was referring to that have put us in a situation where it is very difficult for people who are just starting out in their careers to afford housing, especially if they live in urban areas, and that once you can get beyond the interpretive frame, which says this is a terrible thing and say, okay, this isn't what I had planned on, but it's okay, then I think you have to have a conversation about the day to day issues.

And if you want to talk about the no, we can talk about that.

So what would that conversation look like and what are you hearing from people who are living this?

Well, I think you certainly have to have a conversation about what everybody's role in this household is going to be.

And that, you know, as you said, I don't give a lot of prescriptive advice.

It's more my style in this book to say, here are the things you talk about.

I can't tell you how to divide the chores in your house, but I can tell you that you have to have a discussion with your adult child about that.

My own preference would be to make sure that your adult child is a working member of the household and not someone who's treating the home like a B that they're staying.

And that means helping out with the running of household, with the cleaning, with the shopping, with the snow shoveling, etc..

The second major issue is to understand that it is not good to replicate the interpersonal dynamics that you got used to when your child was a high school student living at home.

They're not a teenager anymore.

Yes, they're they're still your child.

But they're not a child.

And I think you should need to be aware of that.

I'm not sure this prompts an initial conversation until something troublesome happens.

But I think as a parent, you need to be aware of that.

The third topic of conversation is how your adult child is going to pursue adult activities like sex or drinking or things that they've gotten used to when they've been off of college in your house.

All right.

Let's just say it bluntly that everybody is going to be uncomfortable with your adult child having sex a couple of doors down the hallway from your bedroom.

I mean, they're just as uncomfortable about it as you are.

But I think it's unrealistic to expect that a sexually active person in their mid to late twenties is going to be abstinent just because they're living at home.

And I think you have to have a discussion about discretion and manners and and how you're going to treat each other's private lives.

And the same thing goes for drinking, smoking marijuana, which is legal in lots of places now.

And, you know, your child has been used to doing these things.

And you want to find a way of you know, you can say you can drink, but you we don't want to see you intoxicated.

You can smoke marijuana outside the house.

I mean, whatever the rule is that works for you.

And then the last and I think this is the one I hear the most about is the extent to which you are going to monitor your young adults day to day behavior to make sure that they're they're acting in a way that's okay with you.

Now, in some families, this means I don't want you sitting on the couch watching television all day long when you should be out looking for a job.

You know, in others, it means I don't want you sleeping into two in the afternoon when you can be on the Internet in the morning searching job sites.

I think this is a source of tension in lots of households.

I will say that as somebody who teaches people in their twenties as a college professor and we have talked about this in our classes, that almost all of them who are living at home and a lot of them are say I dreaded it and I can tell you, though, although it's not what I would have wanted, it's fine.

And they say I've gotten to know my parents so much better than I ever knew them before, because now I get to know them as people and not just as my parents.

And so I would say this is an informal, willful, that most young adults living at home think that it is improved their relationship with their parents, not worsened it.

And there are some survey data from from the Pew Foundation, which does these great national surveys on these kinds of issues that support that.

Are you hearing anything from the parents side about what the experiences of like of having a kid home?

I think that they find it more problematic than their kids do.

Well, I just noticed this, that there was a time when magazines like AARP and other ones aimed at older parents would write these articles about the sadness of the empty nest.

And I was asked last year to write an article for AARP on how to get your empty nest back.

And I was interviewed by a journalist from some paper in Los Angeles on how to get your kid to get their stuff out of your house.

And so I think that, you know, because people wouldn't be pre-pandemic, people went into this not expecting this to happen.

They didn't make plans.

They they rededicated their child's bedroom into, you know, a library or a sewing room or a reading room.

And they got used to having that there.

And now they're going to turn it back into a bedroom.

So I think I think a lot of parents find out that they enjoy the empty nest and there's nothing the matter with that.

And now they've got to give it up.

So I hear that from parents a fair amount.

So it's interesting if people take your good advice and make it work well with their young adult child, they may end up with a roommate that didn't mean to have.

Right.

Which brings us to the next question.

And again, I was just underlining dog it.

So say it's time for that young person to find their own place.

And yet they they are working.

They are doing all the right things.

And it is a financially impossible reality.

Talk us through the money.

Well, let's unpack what you said, because it's a multipart question.

The first is, is the phrase it's time, that one of the major themes of the book and if there's anything you take home from today's conversation, I hope it's this you can't use the timetable you followed when you were a young adult to judge what's right or not right, or whether your child is making progress or not making progress.

So you can't say, when I was 25 I had my own apartment or when I was 30 I already had a child.

Or fill in the blank.

And as a general rule of thumb, what I say is, here's a formula to use when you're if you want to compare.

And I'm not saying you should compare, but if you can't help, it uses subtract five years from the age you were at the time.

In other words, don't compare where you were when you were 30 with your child is when he or she's 30.

Compare when you were 25 with where your child is at the age of 30.

That is a fair comparison in light of the what we know about the demographic timetable that people are following today.

And is that driven by economic reality, social realities like what's shifted that five years?

I think it's a couple of things.

I think that certainly the fact that people are staying in school longer, you know, what we quaintly call a four year degree has not been a four year degree for some time now.

The average is five and lots of people take six years to finish.

So that means that they're delaying becoming economically independent.

They're doing starting their careers, that all these changes have interactive and cascading effects.

All of that has increased the age of marriage.

And so now, as I said before, we are we're we're in the early thirties, whereas the parents generation was getting married earlier than that.

And so there have been societal changes that have affected the timetable.

I think the economy changes are huge and mainly in the cost of housing and in the relationship between the cost of housing and salaries.

So the cost of housing is going up depending upon whose estimate you use five or ten times faster than salaries have.

And so it is a reality that lots of children this age cannot afford to be living at home.

And so the question of it's time to you know, I think you need to just set your watch, whether it's back or ahead.

But, you know, you need to recalibrate that.

And then I think the other thing to think about is why?

Like what?

What is it?

I mean, if in the situation that you set up, the child is working and earning money, but just not enough money, then I think you can think about can we subsidize our child's move out at the beginning until they're making enough money to be able to do it on their own?

Some parents can.

Other parents can't.

If the problem is that you're living together, it's an economic necessity, but you're not getting along.

Then I would revisit those questions that I that I raised at the beginning of our conversation about household responsibilities, about personal choices, about the parent monitoring the child's activities.

Okay.

So going back to this framework, we've said the young person is working, they have a job, maybe they want to move out, maybe their folks do want them to move out.

But let's say that that is now imminent.

But money's an issue.

If the parents can afford it, do you think they should offer financial support if they.

But let me first say, what what can afford means?

It means that the amount, if you choose to, that you're going to be giving or lending your child doesn't threaten your retirement.

And doesn't threaten your health and well-being.

I think you have to protect that aspect of your own financial status.

But again, you have to have an important conversation about this, and you need to talk about how much, for what purpose and for how long.

And you have to agree on those three points or else this is not going to work.

Obviously, some of the purposes like affording child care or affording to be able to pay rent in the place where you're living, are seen differently by parents than, you know, gallivanting around the world on an expensive vacation.

How much has to be a figure that can be modified over time if necessary?

And for how long means that your child says to you that I will tell you when I no longer need this money or no longer need as much.

And ultimately, as I write in the book, this comes down to an issue of trust, because let's just take as an example what your child is spending the money on.

Well, that's really a matter of bookkeeping.

Right.

Does it go in the ledger as childcare or are they paying child care from their salary and they're using the money that you give them for going out to fancy restaurants and you will never know.

And I don't think you should be checking your child's credit card bills.

I think you have to have the trust that the money is genuinely needed for important things and that your child will tell you.

And that's no longer the case.

But but to answer your question, if you can accept the fact that your child's financial situation is not their doing, it is something that's happened because of the way society has changed.

Then I think if you're in a position to help even a little bit, you should.

I have one more question.

But first, I want to read the rules for your Q&A and then I'll ask mine.

Okay.

So we're going to begin the audience Q&A shortly.

And for our livestream and radio audience.

For those just joining, I'm Dr. Lisa Timor.

I'm joined here at the City Club by Lawrence Steinberg.

He's an expert in adolescent psychology, distinguished professor and author of his latest book, You and Your Adult Child How to Grow Together in Challenging Times.

We welcome questions from everyone City Club members, guests and those joining via our live stream of City Club talk or radio broadcast at 89.7 W WKSU Ideastream Public Media.

If you'd like to text a question for our speaker, please text it to 3305415794.

That's 3305415794.

And the city club staff will try to work it into the program.

Okay.

So let me ask you one more question and then we'll turn to the questions from our audience.

Every time I read a book, I learn things I did not expect to learn.

It's my favorite part about writing books.

What did you learn in writing this?

I guess maybe the most important thing that I learned, and as I mentioned this in passing before my son and his wife were in their young mid-thirties while I was writing the book, and I pride myself on the quality of the relationship that I have with both of them.

And it was difficult at times.

And so I realized that I know there are parents out there who are estranged from their adult child, and you can find lots of books on that topic.

I didn't want to talk about that, but I didn't want the book to be about that, that even under the best of circumstances, in the warmest and closest relationships, there are issues that are going to arise that you need, that parents are going to need help with.

And that it would be important for me in my process.

And writing was, okay, this has now come up between me and my son.

What should I do and what should I be thinking about?

And then I would take notes about what I should be thinking about.

But so a good deal of it was prompted by living the experience while I was writing it.

Do you think that actually helped you manage it that much better, that you sort of had a removed that you could try to take as you were working your way through the book?

Well, it certainly forced me to not to not make impulsive decisions in our relationship or to write something impulsively, because I did spend time thinking about this, and I have to give my wife credit for being, you know, a very important ear to to bounce ideas off which she's very wise when it comes to parenting issues.

So I so appreciate you sharing with us the ways in which this is something that has to be worked through, that the answers don't just arrive and they don't come easy and they're complex.

And that's even true when you've spent your entire lifetime and career looking at development and how it works.

So I think that's reassuring to the rest of us who are finding our way.

Yeah.

I mean, I felt like if you're having problems, then they're all happening.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Okay.

So thank you.

Thank you.

So what problems are you having?

Let's do our questions.

All right.

So the first question is a test question.

It says Many parents are taking on debt to help their adult child cover the cost of higher education.

Can you talk to the issues of student loan debt complicating or even often put intention or relationships?

Sure.

Let me say something.

First and foremost.

A lot of people wonder whether college as expensive as it has gotten the is worth it.

And I have looked at the scientific literature.

It's been studied by economists from all political ilcs.

And if you're measuring it simply by subsequent earnings, it is definitely worth it.

There's no question about it.

There's one caveat there is that you've got to complete the degree.

If you just go to college and take some classes and then drop out.

It's not worth it.

But a bachelor's degree certainly is worth it in the long run.

On.

I know that President Biden has been quite concerned about this and has done some very important things in helping to relieve student debt for lots of young people.

In terms of what how this affects your financial relationship with your child, I think that that is going to vary from house to house.

And if you took on a lot of debt.

You can look at it as student loan debt.

And maybe your child is not just going to be paying back the federal government, but paying back you over time from the earnings that they're generating.

So I do think we all make investments in our children along the way.

College is a very big investment, but it's an important investment and I think you need to look at it that way and and help if you can.

You can also help your child explore ways of getting financial aid so you can play a big role in that.

Most adults have a pretty good understanding of the financial status of their children, what they earn, what they've got in the bank.

What about the opposite?

How much do you think your child, your adult child should know about how much you've got and what they're expectations might be?

Or should they be surprised?

Well, they may be surprised in either direction, but I think there is a general rule of thumb.

Not every organization recommends it, but many do.

Called the 4070 rule, which is that, you should have an open conversation with your child about your finances by the time they turn 40 or by the time you turn 70.

And I say that for a number of reasons.

Children are not are unlikely on their own to ask.

I think.

But they are curious about both sides of the equation.

Is my parent going to need me to help support them?

And if so, to what extent and by what age?

But they also may be thinking, am I going to inherit anything when my parent passes?

And they probably are also thinking something in the middle, which is is my parent in a financial state now where it's okay for me to ask for help.

So I think it's good to open the books.

Not everybody feels comfortable doing that, but I think it prevents a lot of unfortunate surprises down the road.

I'm curious whether you see any similarities.

You've talked about adult children moving back in with parents.

If you see any similarities between parents moving back in with their adult children in terms of questions that need to be asked and things that need to be considered.

It's not something that I thought a great deal about, largely because it has become less common in America over time.

And I think and I'm not sure about this, I'm just speculating that in a lot of those instances, it's because the parent has become ill or infirm in some way.

And I think that casts a whole different light on this on this topic than children.

Moving back home with their parents.

But but I think at some level, there are going to be issues that are common, which is the need to have a conversation about how you're going to live together and not go in, just assuming that you're going to figure things out as they as they unfold over time.

And so much of your book is really like you need to talk about it, right?

That that that's really I think the overarching guidance is that these things aren't just going to sort themselves out automatically.

Yeah.

And maybe this is my bias as a psychologist, but I think that when you're having a problem in any relationship, any close relationship, the first place to start is by talking about it.

And you'd be surprised at how much that helps and how much the other person where you feel afraid of bringing the subject up with the other person is probably also wishing that they could talk about the subject with you.

And I think a lot of parents are pleasantly surprised when they treat their child.

And you've seen this with the people you work with, who have teenagers or children.

Very often they're pleasantly surprised at how reasonable their their child is.

So don't be afraid.

You know, in a kind of way of saying we seem to be having a struggle over this issue.

Can we sit down and talk about it?

One important rule, I think, is don't do it when you're angry about what the issue is, because then the conversation is going to be derailed.

And all you're going to be focusing on is the anger and not the topic.

But talking is good.

Even the phrasing, we seem to be having a struggle about this.

Can we sit down and talk about it?

Right.

I mean, that feels like you've knocked on the door.

You're inviting them to open the door.

I mean, I think that that phrase which you tossed off so easily is just so valuable and essential for even getting that conversation going.

Yeah.

And I found this apparent that sometimes the best conversations that our son and I could would have were when you least expected them to occur, when you're driving in the car to go to the mall, when you're saying goodnight to them and the lights are dark.

So, you know, it's kind of like a psychiatrists office where they're like, damn, they're not looking at you face to face and they can bring up something that's important.

So it's not going to happen when you're having dinner, you know, because you know what that's like when you say, How was school today?

And they say, Fine.

I mean, that's the worst possible time to try to have this kind of conversation.

So look for opportunities when when you're getting along and doing something that is going to lend itself to people being open and honest with each other.

We have another text question.

It says, let's talk about millennials.

The elders of this generation are not old enough to have adult children.

The generation has also struggled greatly to build wealth, wealth and independence from their own parents as compared to Gen X or boomers.

Why advice do you have for millennial parents who have either already enter or about to enter this era of their lives?

While the unique challenges they have faced themselves through their young, young, adult adulthood?

Well, millennial parents are probably not yet at the age where they're going to have adult children.

They are.

Okay.

All right.

And my calculations are well, you know, I would say that some of these issues are inherent to the developmental stage that you and your child are in.

And just because you grew up at a certain time, whether you're a boomer or a millennial or whatever, doesn't mean that you're going to be exempt from them.

I think that there's some I don't believe this is true, but I think that millennials have been unfairly stereotyped as narcissistic and selfish.

And perhaps that question refers to the fact that they might be less likely to be willing to support their children.

I don't think that's true.

I mean, the surveys show that they're not any more narcissistic or grandiose or selfish than other generations have been at the same age.

But I don't I guess I don't see any reason to to deviate from the basic advice that I've given.

To ask a follow up, though.

And I want your wisdom on this, I think, as much personally as I do for the audience.

Talk to me about sandwich generation experience.

Right.

Because talking about adults who are caring for their children much longer than they thought they would.

Mm hmm.

Who are coming up against their own aging parents?

What Footholds do you have for us?

You know, whatever generation that person is in, as they find themselves caught between two very needy generations.

This might sound a little unfair, but I think that the parents have to make an adaptation to the generation that their child is growing up in now.

And to, as I said, you can't judge your child's development using the timetable that you followed.

And I think what that means is and one of the reasons that I wrote the book is to help parents understand what it's like to be in your twenties or thirties today, because it's quite different than it was when you were in your twenties attorneys.

One other small point.

I didn't intend this to be a book for people in their twenties and thirties, but I've discovered over the time since it's been published that a lot of people in their twenties and thirties find the book valuable and feel like they want their parents to read this because they feel misunderstood.

And so I hope that if it's successful, the book does something to help each generation understand each other a little.

I am a young adult and so going through this period with my parents now.

Could you talk a little bit more about the cultural differences when it comes to these topics or if you've explored that?

That's something that I encounter in college, just seeing culturally how other people get a little more support or it just seems to be a difference in how you view adulthood, depending on your background and cultural.

Well, you know, there have always been cultural differences between generations and there has always been some intergenerational tension because the generations have different attitudes and values and opinions.

So I don't think that that's the substance may be different today than in the past, but the issue has always been there.

I think that for young people today, growing up in incredibly stressful time and I too often hear older people say, Oh, it's always been stressful, but it hasn't been stressful the way that it's stressful now.

I mean, when you think of the things that young people worry about and we've seen surveys about what they worry about the economy, political divisiveness, climate change, violence, school shootings, racism, discrimination threats to women's reproductive health.

I mean, the list goes on and on and on.

And as I explain in the book, stress is one of the most important triggers of mental health problems.

And adolescence has this double whammy about it.

The first is that it tends to be an inherently stressful time.

But this is a time when people are making a lot of transitions in their, you know, schools, work life, love, life, residence and so forth.

Those are all challenges.

But there's a pile up of them at this age.

But the second part of the whammy is that the brain during adolescence is more stress responsive than it is during childhood or during adulthood.

So the same degree of stress experienced during adolescence is going to have a more threatening impact on mental health than earlier or later in development.

And so I just think that the two generations have different experiences about how how difficult it is to grow up.

I think it's really, really hard to be in your twenties or thirties today and hard in a way that nobody expected it to be.

Is there research that also tells us about how this may be different stresses or different levels of stress based on racial or ethnic differences?

Do we have that information?

What do we find?

It's much harder to be a person of color in the United States than it is to be a white person.

I mean, and we know that from surveys, we know from mental health data, we know that some of it is because you're more likely to be poor if you're a person of color.

And there's a lot of stress that comes with not having the resources to live comfortably.

But I think that the the pressures inherent in getting into college, affording college, finishing college, making the transition into the labor force, dealing with discrimination and racism in everyday life.

I hate the term microaggressions because there's nothing micro about them.

And I just think it's if you can multiply almost all of those stresses, if you're talking about African-American or Latino American children and just assume that they're under more stress.

And that that then comes into what's happening between adult children and their parents as they're navigating and stressful.

Yes.

And if and if money is an issue and your family is not affluent, then dealing with the financial problems that your adult child is having is going to be harder on you and probably you live in a smaller space.

And so if they move back home, that's going to be more difficult for you as well.

When the economics come to it.

I thank you for being here today.

I have two children, one of whom is an adult living with me.

And so far so good.

I'm also here with my mother today and she has always been an incredibly supportive parent of my parenting.

But that's not always the case.

We we tend to see a lot of judgment, I think sometimes of the older generations of parents or grandparents, of the younger parents.

And so my question is, how do we bridge that gap so that the older generations of parents can be more supportive and less critical of how we're raising our children?

Yeah, that was one of the things I lived through while I was writing as a as a relatively new grandparent.

There are a couple of things to remember.

The first is that parenting advice changes generationally.

And so if you're a and you don't like what your child is doing in raising their children, you have to remember that they're probably following the advice that they're getting from their pediatrician and following the tips that they're getting from their friends and following the the guidance that they're getting from the the gurus of the moment when they read their books.

And that just is always going to be the case.

The second thing is that I think you'll agree with this is that there are many find ways to raise children and probably the things that the grandparents are critical of don't really make much of a difference in in the long run.

One thing that's really wonderful about human beings is that we're we're born with an in with an inborn genetic program that makes us develop.

And that program has been around for a long, long time.

And your child is probably going to be just fine.

You know, that doesn't just, you know, at the extremes.

Right.

Abuse, trauma, terrible for children.

But the day to day variations that grandparents may criticize their kids on probably don't make a difference.

And then the third and most important thing is that being a new parent is very, very difficult and it's very, very stressful.

And the one thing that you need as a new parent is to feel confident and competent.

And nobody can make you feel more confident or competent than your parent telling you what a great job you're doing.

And so I would say to grandparents who don't approve of everything their children are doing as parents, keep your mouth shut seriously and go go easy on the criticism and go heavy on the compliment.

And the best thing you can do for your grandchild is to make your child feel more comfortable and confident in this new role of that.

Thank you for this conversation and for your book.

A number of us made it through our children's adolescence by reading your work on neuroscience of adolescent development and brain science.

And I wondered whether you might give us a picture of brain development for emerging adults to help us get through this period as well.

Sure.

I think what I'm about to say pertains mostly to people between 20 and 25.

There is not a huge amount of major development between 25 and 40 with between 20 and 25.

I know it is.

It's not downhill, but it's not the the between 2025, there's still an awful lot of brain maturation going on, especially in brain regions that are important for self-control and self-regulation.

That's the last part of the brain to mature.

And that that if there are deficiencies in the way that people in the first half of their twenties think, they tend to be deficiencies that result from poor impulse control or poor self-control.

The key for parents is to realize that your your young adult child may seem mature in very many ways and may seem smart and more smarter than you in lots of ways.

And you're probably astounded by the things that they're able to do intellectually at college or in high school, if they're still 18 or 19 years old.

But that doesn't mean they're all grown up yet and they're going to do some dumb things.

And I think it's important to understand that a lot of the things that those of us who work on college campuses see this all the time, you know, but I think it's important to realize that a lot of the risky and reckless and impulsive and shortsighted decisions that you're 21 or 22 year old is making are partly a function of their still maturing brain.

And so I would say be patient, but but be there to help your child think through things before acting on their impulses.

After 25, there really isn't much to worry about, but at least with respect to bring calm.

Hello.

Last question is the text question.

It says Many young adults now with the push for social media and pop psychology, are focusing more on mental health and our look into their childhoods.

I've heard from parents of these young adults facing perceived criticism about how they raised their children.

Hopefully having done their best.

Any advice to parents and children on how to navigate space for both healing and realities?

Was the last part of it.

I think it's.

As young people are, there's the next social media trend as it sounds like right now being critical of one's parents for real or perceived missteps in one's own childhood.

How do we how do we help adults navigate this in a way that is compassionate and also realistic?

Well, you know, I think it's almost cliched that people go through a stage in late adolescence where they attribute all the problems that they're having in their life to the way that they were raised.

And sometimes they may say something to that effect to their parents, which stings I mean, really stings.

I think as a parent.

I wouldn't fight it back.

I mean, because there's no way you're going to convince their child that that's not true.

I think if you want to, you can say that that comes as a surprise or that hurts you and you're sorry and move on.

I will say that as your child moves into their mid to late twenties, they're going to come to a new and better understanding of you.

And once they become a parent, a lot of this is going to go away because they're going to realize what a difficult job parenting is.

And so I think a lot of young adults report greatly improved relationships with their own parents once they have children.

So one way to circumvent this problem is to become a parent as early as you possibly can.

That will help your, you know, being facetious, but that will help them know.

That's a wonderful place to wrap up.

Thank you all.

Thank you very much, Larry Steinberg.

And this day more for joining us today.

I'm Dan Moulthrop of the city club.

Forms like this one are made possible thanks to generous support from individuals like all of you, whether you're here with us in the audience, watching online, watching on television or listening on WKSU, our form today is part of our Author's In Conversation series, which is presented in partnership with Cuyahoga Arts and Culture and the Cuyahoga County Public Library.

And we'd also like to welcome guests from the Schubert Center for Child Studies at Case Western Reserve University.

Thank you so much for being with us today.

Up next to the city clubs, next Thursday, the state of the city with Mayor Justin Bibb.

That will be at the Mimi, Ohio Theater here at Playhouse Square.

Tickets are sold out, but the live stream will be available and it will also be broadcast live on WKSU.

So we hope you'll tune in for that.

If you don't already have a ticket.

And then Friday, April 8th, just before the total solar eclipse, I don't know if you've heard there's a total solar eclipse that's coming.

We will be inspiring the next generation of space explorers and scientists with Chris Brown, NASA's deputy associate administrator for STEM engagement, and Dr. Kirsten Ellenbogen of the Great Lakes Science Center right here at the City Club.

If ever wanted to learn about what it takes to be a STEM professional NASA scientist or perhaps an astronaut, you can join us at that for that event.

That's next Friday.

Tickets available at City Club dot org.

We've just added a whole bunch more forums at our website.

You can check them all out there.

City Club dot org, as I said.

And that brings us to the end of our forum today.

Thanks so much for being a part of this.

Thanks once again, Dr.

Tomorrow, Dr. Steinberg.

It's been great.

Have a great weekend, everybody.

Our forums adjourned.

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